No Car is Perfect, And It's OK [savagegeese]

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TaskForceCausality@reddit

OP, this is r/cars. Unless a vehicle is built in your favorite country, brown , with 1000 HP and a diesel option, it’s instantly considered junk.

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It’s constantly repeated for the luls but r/cars loves GTIs and Toyobarus, Mustangs and Camaros, the Civic Si, and almost everyone has at least one crossover in the family. Few have driven sports cars and even fewer have driven Sixties sports cars.

It’s just stupid, and people who upvote it are bandwaggoners.

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woowoo293@reddit

Is the bandwagon manual, and does it come with a cd player?

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cannedrex2406@reddit

Lmao, it's obviously tongue in cheek, but look at every new car that r/cars says will fail (new Supra, Prelude, BMW M3, M2, GLC etc), and see how it does the literal opposite.

There's no denying that the common consensus that cars that this sub isn't good tend to be strong sellers. Almost like the product planners actually know what they're doing with the money they're paid

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_galaga_@reddit

To me there’s a flawed assumption that enthusiasts opinions should be in alignment with sales figures. This isn’t a sub about predicting volume sales leaders, right? Watch forums, gun forums, pick a hobby and the opinions won’t align with sales and that’s ok.

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strongmanass@reddit

The problem is that enthusiasts think auto makers and their product planners are stupid for not catering to their niche interests and that they should be fired and burned at the stake for ignoring the whims of the vocal non-buying minority.

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_galaga_@reddit

That’s an unfortunate aspect of human nature and the tendency to put our own wants and needs at the center of the universe.

I wouldn’t expect an enthusiast forum’s opinions to correlate with mass market sales, tho, regardless. The readership here is skewed demographically from the car buying population, enthusiasts value different things than the average buyer, etc.

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strongmanass@reddit

Yeah using yourself as the yardstick is natural, I do it too for a lot of things. When it comes to card we just need to keep some perspective too.

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fmjintervention@reddit

Well yeah I understand why carmakers don't cater to my every whim and demand, making the perfect car for me means they'll come up with a machine that is unprofitable per unit sold, won't pass crash tests or emissions testing, and they'll sell exactly one of them, to me.

I still want them to make my perfect car though, why would I ever dream about anything other than my dream car?

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strongmanass@reddit

Dreaming about your perfect car isn't the problem. The problem is insulting people who are just doing their jobs - and doing them well based on what we can see. That's the behavior in car spaces I have a problem with.

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Wolf24h@reddit

I'm a shitting break enjoyer 😤

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_The_Real_Sans_@reddit

Man I love shitting bricks

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testthrowawayzz@reddit

The empty feeling after doing that is very satisfying.

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nomptonite@reddit

You forgot manual wagon

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candyman505@reddit

And used from the factory

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CreaminFreeman@reddit

And it better be a Miata

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golden_glorious_ass@reddit

seats 4 with the top down.

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ImpressiveTailor10@reddit

More like, unless it’s an EV that will save the environment that the government can turn off at any moment then it’s no good

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RichardNixon345@reddit

Also needs to be made in China or it’s junk.

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GoldenState15@reddit

The same "joke" again for the thousandth time that was never funny to begin with. So creative man

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Don’t worry little bro you’ll get your used manual brown diesel wagon someday

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GoldenState15@reddit

Ah and one more time. Good one

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gropingpriest@reddit

lol I swear it's the top comment on like half the threads here

low effort garbage is why I've basically stopped posting here, just read the headlines now and then

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GoldenState15@reddit

Yeah it's so repetitive at this point it's probably just bot accounts

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Makeitquick666@reddit

And it has to weigh less than a bicycle while carrying at least 7 people comfortably while also being objectively beautiful

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Muttonboat@reddit

I've seen so many people here pass on cars for one silly knitpick option, then were back here months later for the article saying the cars been discontinued.

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lee1026@reddit

Cars are expensive and people don’t buy many. I pass on the vast, overwhelming majority of cars. Unless if you have a lot of money, that will always be the case.

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carguymt@reddit

I really want a 911 GT3 but I can't stop knit picking over the price. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's a deal breaker for me. I think it would have sold much better at $60k or so. I don't know what Porsche was thinking.

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Muttonboat@reddit

same here, but with the BRZ

I think Subaru should have made the BRZ a turbo, but kept it the same price somehow despite the complexity.

They really lost their way.

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Affalt@reddit

Next decade Mazda Subaru joint venture sporty coupe needs a Wankel engine to feel more German.

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gladdy02@reddit

And just be free or else it's just too damn expensive

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

Sounds like Mark (or Mark's accountant / industry relations person) has finally realised he can't shit on everything under the sun for years and years while wishing for cars that simply don't reflect what the buying public actually buys.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

He has legitimately looked like he doesn’t like doing it any more for much of this year

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india2wallst@reddit

The ioniq 6 video was something else. Yes Hyundai made a cringe video promotion but to just dismiss the car based on that video ?

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Ftpini@reddit

He seems to really hate EVs. Doesn’t matter how good they are.

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boomerbill69@reddit

People love to blindly parrot this while ignoring all the EVs they’ve positively reviewed on the channel. Dude just bought an iX ffs

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Ftpini@reddit

Not at all. I’ve watched his reviews for years. He is normally very reasonable reviewing cars, but put an EV in front of him and it’s ruining the entire industry like piano black plastic.

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tugtugtugtug4@reddit

He likes Lucid. Car reviewers who are enthusiasts hate EVs because they spell the end of their passion and hobby. There are no real enthusiast EVs and never will be because their power delivery is synthetic and they weigh a million pounds. There are barely any enthusiast ICE cars.

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strongmanass@reddit

There are no real enthusiast EVs and never will be

This is extremely short-sighted and factually incorrect. The MG Cyberster, SC01, and Renault R5 Turbo are all enthusiast EVs.

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Ftpini@reddit

My last car was a model 3 performance. It could do burnouts and power slides, the motors whined when you pushed it hard and it was fast as hell. As a lifelong car enthusiast I found it exhilarating the entire time I owned it.

I think it is safe to say that many people have let their own bias get in the way of enjoying any vehicle they drive. They ignore obvious strengths and hyper focus on things of little importance or on things they arbitrarily decided are important.

EVs are gaining massive market share every single year and nothing is going to stop that. There will still be enthusiasts, and sports cars and even enthusiast journalists.

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Bonerchill@reddit

Sounds kinda boring tbh.

Burnouts and power slides can be done by pickups and Crown Victorias. Roller coasters are fast as hell. Exhilaration is neat but involvement is neater.

Car enthusiasts are often not terribly good driving enthusiasts.

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ManufacturerBest2758@reddit

Just like there are no true Scotsmen

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tablepennywad@reddit

Except Lucid who maybe gave them both lucid bjs.

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Kaiathebluenose@reddit

He loved his lucid

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tugtugtugtug4@reddit

He’s burned out because he’s probably spending 80-100 hours a week shooting, planning a shoot, or editing video from a shoot. He is a perfectionist on the color grading and sound mixing so I’d imagine his editing takes far longer than most channels.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

Which is wild because they COMMONLY let ungraded slog clips through I to the release.

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artemise-en-scene@reddit

lmao it's actually so funny

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Larcya@reddit

I mean i actually get him becoming more jaded. Their has never been less fun cars in the industry. And if you don't like evs there isn't much to look forward too.

Personally I've given up on fun cars and just buy motorcycles. So a car to me is always going to be just an appliance.

But if you still look for fun, you're choices in the industry just keep on getting fewer and fewer every year. Which is going to cause you to become jaded.

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randeus@reddit

Why though? You may not be able to buy these cars new these days, but tons of used fun cars in decent condition still exist out there. I never understood the point of complaining about the lack of new fun cars when you still have so many options in the used market with tons of aftermarket support.

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boomerbill69@reddit

Fun used cars get chewed through quickly. If there is nothing to replace them, they’ll be mostly gone in 15 years, and the ones affordable to young enthusiasts will dry up even quicker.

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randeus@reddit

I don’t think they’ll get chewed up that quickly considering how many cars are out there in the market.

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boomerbill69@reddit

I already barely see 15 year old pony cars though, and those I do see are either clapped or are expensive garage queens

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randeus@reddit

Where do you live, man? I live in Arizona and see older Mustangs (s197, SN95) everywhere

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boomerbill69@reddit

I’m in the Bay Area. Barely see any clean S197/SN95s anymore. Don’t see too many 5th gen Camaros and the ones I see are mostly beat. Guess I do see some Mopars, they kinda blend in at this point.

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randeus@reddit

I live near and work at a military base. I see them everywhere in my area.

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boomerbill69@reddit

The stereotypes are true!!

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RevvCats@reddit

Because we live in a social media fantasy world where people in their 20s think they should be able to buy all these fun new cars when that was never case “back in the day” It was always coked out bankers buying these things new off the lot

I bought both of my E30s for a thousand and then five thousand bucks while I was a grad student making minimum wage on my DOE stipend. Were the cars in great shape? No but with some effort they both got working pretty good (which btw is easier to do now more than ever with the plethora of videos online showing you how to do things) End of the day I had an E30 which is a cool car and you’re right there’s lots of cool used cars out there today that are far more accessible to get into.

Adjusting my current 325is MSRP to today’s money the fucking thing cost over 70k. Thats more than a M2! And back in the 80s interest rates were way higher and banks didn’t let you take out long loans. It’s a lot easier now than it was back then to buy a 70k dollar car. Yuppies drove E30s in the 80s, twenty years later grad students could drive them.

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R_V_Z@reddit

Their has never been less fun cars in the industry.

I disagree. There are tons of fun cars, the most since the hey-day of the 90s sporty coupe era. The problem is that the vast majority of them are unobtainium for the average person.

Seriously, think about how often we collectively roll our eyes at the latest 900+hp sold-out-before-you-even-heard-about-it supercar that costs more than a house? Scoff at Ferrari's and now Porsche's artificial exclusivity? The options for the everyday person to have a "fun" car have all but vanished, essentially leaving just the Miata and the twins unless you want to spend upwards of $50k for a hot hatch, or more for the Supra/Z/Vette class of cars.

That's the real downer of modern fun cars: Companies have figured out that going after the people who can afford to spend anywhere from $200k to millions of dollars is better than developing sporty cars for the everyday person.

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Larcya@reddit

Yup. Probably should have said their have never been less Affordable Fun cars in the industry.

As you said unless I want to spend a ridiculous amount of money, what are my options under $50,000? As you said, Miata and the Twins. Maybe you could argue the Eco boost Mustang too.

Sure If I want to blow $100,000 I have options at that point. But what's the actual realistic options an average joe has at this point?

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KellerMB@reddit

The corvette is an absolute monster.

The mustang still exists and while not as affordable as it used to be...The ecoboost has more performance/handling than many are willing to acknowledge at the $40k mark.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

Dude is the living embodiment of rose colored glasses + survivorship bias. He never screams his head off until Jack is driving some 800HP monster around a track, and then he cuts to studio where he goes all "HMMMMMMW ELLLLLLLLL IT'S A REALLY SYNTHETIC DRIVING EXPERIANCE, VERY INSULATED, THE PEOPLE WHO BUY THIS CAR WILL PROBABLY LOVE IT, BUT IT'S JUST NOT THE SAAAAAAME."

Like fine, you have preferances. Great! Everyone does. But when his preferences are unironically turning into some obscure, 1990s 2dr hatch with 268 horsepower, AC optional, 80s plastic buttons, with pop up headlights, and a built in car phone, no shit you hate everything that's coming out nowadays. Hell, use BMW as a perfect example of this: He hates basically everything they've done (and statistically, you on r/cars reading this probably do too,) but they have record sales.

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xlb250@reddit

BMW isn’t making record sales because their cars are engaging to drive or because they’re selling a lot of sports cars. It’s the opposite actually.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

Well I'm sure they'll cry all the way to the bank.

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xlb250@reddit

I don’t think you’ve watched their reviews.

They rave about BMW’s bread and butter SUV’s. In fact, Mark has purchased an X7 and iX. That’s a strong endorsement, no?

It’s the sedans and coupes that they mainly complain about. In that respect, their ratings align with the sales figures. BMW is selling less of them, right?

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

I mean, I'm sure you're right that I've missed something. Obviously I'm not a huge fan of his, I don't follow him closely.

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WOW_SUCH_KARMA@reddit

Yep, it's almost like for the vast, vast majority of consumers, cars are a utility to get from point a to point b, likely with kids or groceries, and they just want the nicest vehicle they can get for $X per month, rather than a performance toy to be enjoyed.

Aaaalmost.

Car enthusiasts are always out-of-touch with what the market actually wants. Actual buyers want nice SUVs and trucks no matter what the YouTubers say. A lot of the cars we like are losing manufacturers money.

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brosky7331@reddit

1 day without throttle house slop

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Ok-Response-839@reddit

Mark has a lot of great experience and I respect his opinions, but I enjoy the videos that Jack presents much more these days. I can't put my finger on what exactly, but the vibe is just way better when Mark isn't lamenting the death of the auto industry.

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Active-Device-8058@reddit

Thousand percent. Hope Jack branches off. It's all the knowledge + a willingness to still try new things. Hell, I'm pretty sure Jack loves the same stuff Mark does, but he also loves new stuff and can enjoy it for what it is.

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stoned-autistic-dude@reddit

You need the yin and yang. Jack and Mark work well together because Jack is hopeful and Mark is lamenting. The fact that you perceive two sides of the automotive coin, which is CLEARLY apparent on this sub if you read the comments, is necessary for us to grasp both perspectives.

Mark does like a lot of cars. He had great things to say even about the 911 which he doesn't like, the M2, GTD, and other cars. He always speaks highly about minivans and certain SUVs. If you can appease him, then it's arguably a good product. Jack is less dismissive but if you get him to complain, you know it's a bad product.

Frankly, the two of them work great as a team.

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DetroitLionsEh@reddit

I actually agree with some (a lot?) of his takes, but the last couple years, his reiews have become less and less helpful. He's just so jaded

I totally agree. If the car isn’t a 90s fwd Honda he shits on it no matter what.

Pair that with his obvious bias for Mazda, and the fact that he did a Honda commercial so he could get a discount on a Type-R, he has really lost a lot of credibility as a “media person”.

Sucks watching a YouTuber decline but that’s the reality for a lot of them.

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watduhdamhell@reddit

He used to have good takes but... I noticed early on he was a huge "German cars are overrated" early on and then subtly noticed all the excuses he made for the Japanese competition's shortcomings- he will always say "this is perfect for what they were trying to do with this car, despite its performance shortcomings" for literally every Japanese product, but with a BMW say "this thing does everything well (you know, class leading) but it's overrated and really just not that special."

So... Like everyone else, take what he says with a grain of salt.

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WordWithinTheWord@reddit

Lol he’s becoming the guy he fired before bringing Jack on.

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Wake-n-jake@reddit

My Toyota Paseo (essentially a Tercel) was one of the most fun cars I've ever driven, that's including multiple generations of M3's an M2, Caymen GT4s, WRXs, Fiesta ST etc etc it's funny how cheap econoboxes can be the most fun to run hard.

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FR_Van_Guy@reddit

The perfect car is a brown miata wagon, manual, manufactured by Porsche for $40k

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BioDriver@reddit

The perfect car could exist if

BMW provided a B58

Honda provided a 6MT

Alfa provided the Giorgio platform

Audi built the interior

Cadillac handled the electronics

And it could come as a wagon for this sub

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booostedben@reddit

The B58 can't be perfect until they stop making half the engine out of plastic

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-SUBW00FER-@reddit

Don't forget used from the factory.

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cubs223425@reddit

Audi built the interior

Why would I want a bunch of piano black, touch screens, tiny cupholders, and poor headroom?

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Dazzling-Rooster2103@reddit

Just to clarify, last gen Audi interiors.

The new ones are just as bad if not worse than all the other german brands.

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gimmiedacash@reddit

Cars can be perfect to a person. Just not objectively.

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19Ben80@reddit

The imperfections are what give a car character

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seamonkey420@reddit

Commenting on No Car is Perfect, And It's OK [savagegeese]...agree fully! just got a 2021 mini gp and omg i love its imperfections so much. torque steer? check! crazy fast and light? check. gokart handling but super stiff suspension ?

yup, shes a hoot.

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QLDZDR@reddit

Which decade? These days you want something that doesn't use expensive fuel

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420bIaze@reddit

I watched a video recently where the reviewer said "it's okay to like a bad car". He said this in response to them receiving a lot of angry comments when they criticise a car.

That stuck with me "it's okay to like a bad car".

You're the only one who has to like your car, and it's okay if car reviewers or the internet don't love it. When a new affordable sports car comes out, there's initially lots of hype, then inevitably reality hits, and the steering is numb, power is lower than a competitor, interior falls apart, price too high, etc... a lot of people get upset over this and write it off from consideration, without even seeing the car themselves.

My car has some glaringly obvious flaws, and many people don't like it, few would own one. But it's also unique, has some great things about it, and I love it for that.

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BenzinaPorkChop@reddit

Especially when it comes to weight, people focus way too much on the number on paper. Some modern performance cars just make you forget about heft entirely.

Drive one of these new BMWs and you realize there’s some real Munich magic going on. They feel like they weigh 2,500 pounds on the scale

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Terrh@reddit

Drive one of these new BMWs and you realize there’s some real Munich magic going on.

You need to drive your rx-7 some more if you think a new BMW feels like it weighs less.

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MrEwThatsGross@reddit

Cant get onboard with this take. On center it feels light because the steering ratio is insanely fast. As soon as you load the front, the feel is completely numb and artificial. The magic is lost the moment you start pushing this car past 3/10th. And I wont even go into how fast it shreds consumables.

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Vandersnatcher@reddit

There are several issues with weight that isn’t as simple as “feels like 2500 lbs”. All of those electronics dampening the feel of the weight are also dampening the feel in general. Weight is also absolutely killer on consumables.

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Darth_Firebolt@reddit

Of all the cars I have ever driven, I miss my 5mt 1995 Honda del Sol base model (D15, rear drum brakes, steel wheels, no power steering) the most. It was just such a great CAR. It was fun to drive spiritedly and still not break the speed limit (too much), would cruise at 110mph and still get 35 mpg, it got great fuel economy during normal driving (usually mid 40s, with several tanks of 50+ mpg), was as reliable as the sun, the top came off and stowed in the trunk but it was still warm in the winter and quiet on the highway, the trunk was absolutely massive (I fit a full size acoustic guitar case in the trunk!). 10/10; best normal, every day car experience.

I enjoyed the Miata I replaced it with, but I always regretted selling the del Sol more.

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FesteringNeonDistrac@reddit

90s Hondas just had all the right stuff. Not the fastest or anything but they all drive great.

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SFWarriorsfan@reddit

Excuse me? - Porsche 911 owners.

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natesully33@reddit

I feel like car enthusiasm means being enthusiastic about cars and driving, in general. Being enthusiastic about a specific kind of either makes no sense to me, do people just want the same thing over and over again?

I figured that out going from Miatas to a wide range of other cars and realizing that I can find happiness in all sorts of automotive experiences. I'm surprised someone older than me, who has driven a whole lot of cars, hasn't come to the same conclusion already. There's nothing wrong with taste and knowing what you like, of course, but you always need to be aware of how those tastes bias you relative to everyone else.

Perfection wise, you also need to realize that what you think are the most important things in a car may not really matter to other people, or even to the thing you are trying to do. I test drove a BMW i4 recently - one of those modern BMWs everyone says has dead steering. Felt fine. I'm sure it's worse than some other cars, but it felt great going around corners and local roundabouts, I bet it would do OK on an autocross course even. Rather than obsessing over weight and steering details, I just... drove the damn car and it was pretty good at doing car stuff. Same thing when I had my former C7 on track - I'm sure the Porsches and whatever are "better" cars but I sure was having fun and sometimes even passing those "better" cars in the one that worked well enough for me.

Cars are fun, drive different ones and appreciate them for what they are. Don't let your ultra-specific tastes get in the way. Accept that times change and cars with them, if you can only desire some specific type of vehicle then you'll just be sad when they go away and you haven't moved on yourself.

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mr_lab_rat@reddit

Good video and he didn’t even talk about cars that look great but are otherwise are shit.

I’m happy I found my nearly perfect car and I’m sticking with it.

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tablepennywad@reddit

This sounds dumb to anyone who hasnt driven the Bolt full throttle and never lifting off. The torque will overpower the front wheels pretty easily and in a turn it will basically powerslide and will and is controllable for anyone with a license. Def a very fun car like no other, basically feels like you are on ice all the time.

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Successful_Ad_9707@reddit

You gotta be able to compromise in some areas when buying an enthusiast car, especially in today's market. I've made peace with the fact that my GRC isn't perfect and definitely has some flaws, but what mattered most to me was having a fizzy engine with a stick and in that the car is 2nd to none in the class.

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Careless-Trick-5117@reddit

I agree, my Elantra N is perfect for me because all I wanted was a fun, manual enthusiast car with four doors that has quick acceleration and handles great. The car meets or exceeds all my expectations on those fronts. So I personally don’t care that it has a cheaper interior or the fact that it’s a Hyundai, it has its flaws but for what I’m looking for it is a perfect car.

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Halofieldfan@reddit

I drive a somewhat similar car being the Kona N, I’ll say it definitely has quirks but at the end of the day it’s perfect for my needs and I don’t think I’d drive anything else if I can help it.

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Badj83@reddit

«laughs in starting my McLaren F1

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Thunder_Wasp@reddit

I think the GR generation (2008-2014) Subaru STI wagon with a few reliability mods, a tune and a little sound deadening in the interior is perfect.

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PFD_2@reddit

People shitted on the MK3 TTS in comparison to cars in its segment, and ive had twice as much fun in this car than I’ve had in my cayman gts

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RiftHunter4@reddit

I usually find the sentiment to be more relevant when you can't get a different car. My car is not considered to be interesting, but there are things about it that make it hard to give up.

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Jimbenas@reddit

This is what’s really killing the cool niche car market. New vehicles are so expensive people just have 1 do all car. Growing up, it seemed like a lot of families had extra cars or trucks for whatever purpose, but now people just buy 1 crossover.

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OneMoreLastChance@reddit

Don't forget car insurance. When I can finally afford a 3rd fun vehicle, insurance cost and mpg will have to factor into my decision.

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Jimbenas@reddit

If it’s something I put maybe 3-5k on a year, the gas cost is negligible, but insurance does suck. I can’t imagine the cost of having a newer car as a 2nd car, older used cars don’t have all the knick-knacks but are so much cheaper to insure (and oftentimes easier to fix). It’s no wonder only rich people can afford new impractical cars now.

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1997_Fairway_C5@reddit

gestures wildly at Miata

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nolansr13@reddit

Idk, not being able to fit in it is a pretty big imperfection, at least for me

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Oockland@reddit

The only perfect car is the MX-5

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ElmerTheAmish@reddit

Hey, that dumb Pontiac rental sometimes turns out to be not so bad!

I was renting out of Ft Lauderdale 15+ years ago, and chose a Grand Prix. Turns out it was a GXP! I only had the car for a couple days, but it was completely worth it!

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Whuuu@reddit

I’ve found the concept of perfection to be the killer of curiosity.

Once you accept something as perfect, you’ve essentially accepted it as peak and in your mind, there’s no possibility of things getting better. Different will always come off as somehow making it worse.

Not to say we shouldn’t want things to be better, but I’d feel sad if I ever settled on something for the rest of my life because I believe anything else would be less enjoyable.

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Ill-Train6478@reddit

Gt4 is pretty much perfect with absolutely the best manual shifter/clutch combo Ive experienced. However what i do miss the most is my e90 m3 with hydraulic steering. i dont remember if it was Road and track that said bmw steering can tell if a coin was heads or tails on the road but it was that good. Its miles better than 718 gt4 and e46 m3 i had back jn the day.

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