I before E except after C

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spudmarsupial@reddit

Except when it says "ay" as in neighbour or weigh. That leaves Keith, counterfeit, feisty, weird, and caffeinated. Receives has a c in it.

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3Cogs@reddit

I learned the rule as ".. when it rhymes with 'ee' ", which would rule out counterfeit, feisty and perhaps weird.

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Forking_Shirtballs@reddit

Would lead you wrong on seize and weird. (I don't follow you on how that would rule out weird).

And then there's the whole class of ie's it would probably lead you astray on, like friend.

There's no good rule here.

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spudmarsupial@reddit

Weerd, seeze. Friend makes an eh sound, rather then ee.

There must be an accent somewhere that makes English spelling make sense.

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gravitydefiant@reddit

If you're up for a super nerdy rabbit hole, look up the Great Vowel Shift. Basically, everyone's accent changed fairly quickly after spelling was mostly codified.

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Shibboleeth@reddit

That's a UK only thing. The US--particulalry the New England area--has the remnants of the English accent as it stood before the Great Vowel Shift.

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gravitydefiant@reddit

Nobody was speaking English in the US in the 1400s when it began.

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Shibboleeth@reddit

Began in the 1400s, didn't finish until the 1600s, and there was a massive shift after the first English settlers arrived.

Jesus history didn't happen in one year you weirdo.

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gravitydefiant@reddit

Oh. Well. Name-calling definitely makes me believe you.

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Shibboleeth@reddit

Oh noes someone was mean to you on the internets! Whatever will you do‽

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Key-Contest-2879@reddit

Not to be confused with the Great Bowel Shift, which is a different rabbit hole entirely!

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3Cogs@reddit

I think English has too many imports for hard and fast rules to always apply.

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3Cogs@reddit

Weird because it's not quite a single syllable, at least in my pronunciation (wee-uhd).

I'll give you seize though, and you're right just about every rule in English spelling has umpteen exceptions.

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JustFiguringItOutToo@reddit

where are you that they say "feesty" ?

(really - I don't know)

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zigzagsfertobaccie@reddit

https://youtu.be/QWzYaZDK6Is?si=-YcAJwMtAOaoOsPh

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hagglethorn@reddit

This is one my favorite things the internet has ever showed me. 😆

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Florianemory@reddit

I own this cup. It’s a great cup for those of us who are sticklers for spelling.

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lalapine@reddit

I remember this well, but I don’t think my kids learned this. But one I learned from them is “an E at the end makes the vowel say its name.”

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JustFiguringItOutToo@reddit

sounding like A ass in neighbor or weigh

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Just-Charge-3428@reddit

We learned "as in reindeer or sleigh".

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pigeyejackson66@reddit

And you'll always be wrong no matter what you say

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planetfour@reddit

Weekends and holidays and all throughout may

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Bright_Earth_8282@reddit

Thank you for the Brian Regan reference

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GrimaceMusically@reddit

It’s a cup, with dirt in it… Just put an “F” on there and let me go home.

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WileyCoyote7@reddit

Moosen. There were many, much moosen in the forest.

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tonyfo98@reddit

The meese wanten food, food is to eaten is in!

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GirlNamedTex@reddit

Don't forget all the -oughs.. Oof. I loved phonics when in preschool and kindergarten. Shockingly grew up to be a word nerd, literature and language lover.

Remember sentence diagramming?? That was my shit! Highly doubt they teach that anymore.

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suburbanplankton@reddit

If you don't already have it, I highly recommend the book Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sister_Bernadette's_Barking_Dog

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GirlNamedTex@reddit

Fantastic! I had this recommended before and then promptly forgot about... thanks for the reminder!

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cruisereg@reddit

lol it really was helpful and no, they don’t, but they should!

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Traditional-Ad9115@reddit

I remember this because of an episode of Talspin

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MuttonDressedAsGoose@reddit

Or an "I" sound. German words are always pronounced exactly as they're spelled - very consistent. As an English speaker learning German, we were taught to remember "Einstein's niece."

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TheBroWhoLifts@reddit

"ancient" would like to have a word with you. Also seize. And tons more. It's a dumb mnemonic. Just learn to spell.

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Illustrious-Lead-960@reddit

Even with that part it’s still a terrible rule. Exceptions out the wazoo!

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davster99@reddit

In English, there are more exceptions to the “I before E” rule than there are words that follow it.(55%-60%)

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Snuggly_Chopin@reddit

A lot of youngsters haven’t seen “A Boy Named Charlie Brown” and it shows.

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phalangepatella@reddit

I before E, except after C, unless it says A as in neighbour and weigh.

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I before "E" except after "C" and when sounding like "A" as in neighbor and weigh, and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and YOU'LL ALWAYS BE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!!!! - Brian Regan

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PaisleeClover@reddit

I only learned this rule in a Peanuts special about Charlie Brown competing in a spelling bee. I don’t remember ever learning it in school.

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DireKnife@reddit

I have the hardest time with this. Glad I’m not the only one.

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OwslyOwl@reddit

I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in neighbor and weigh.

I learned the rest of the poem from Tail Spin haha

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SomeGuyClickingStuff@reddit

Double the C double the S. What do you get, Success.

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planespotterhvn@reddit

Science proves the exceptions.

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So_Many_Words@reddit

I before e, except after c, or when it sounds like an a as in neighbor and weigh.

Weird.

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profoma@reddit

The rule goes like this. I before E except after C and when sounding like A, as in neighbor and weigh, and on Sundays and Tuesdays and all throughout May and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say. Credit to Brian Regan, whose original joke is funnier than my memory of it.

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OreoSpeedwaggon@reddit

Thank you. I had to scroll wayyyy too far down this thread for the full Brian Regan reference.

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Lemgirl@reddit

I before e except after c…. Weird.

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MeanHovercraft7648@reddit

"...E before I except after Y..."

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fattfreddy1@reddit

It’s not taught anymore because it’s not true. There are way more words that break that rule than follow it. I know it’s weird that I keep spelling the word weird wrong because of their stupid rule. I was talking to our ELA teacher the other day about how that rule messed a lot of people up.

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TheRealThatChuckGuy@reddit

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/93844-i-before-e-except-after-c-and-when-sounding-like

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JJQuantum@reddit

“Or when sounded like ‘A’ as in ‘neighbor’ and ‘weigh’.

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HubbaHubbaHubbaPoky@reddit

Like in, 'Jim Nabors is way cool!'?

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ManyARiver@reddit

There are more exceptions than that. Seize? Caffeine? Weird? The rule shouldn't be taught because it is true less than half of the time, making it a nonsense guideline.

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Economy_Field9111@reddit

The full rule goes:

I before E except after C

Or when sounding like A as in neighbor or weigh.

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ManyARiver@reddit

Still inaccurate, and the rule is no longer taught because it is useless for teaching spelling and reading. Seize weird caffeine from Keith.

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Economy_Field9111@reddit

Yeah, no kiddin'. Even so, that second line is a part of it and it illuminates to a lot of folks that there are, in fact, other phonyms that can be represented by that letter pairing. It's one of the reasons I got very interested in the history of the English language as a younger man. I learned from experience that there are all of these weird implied rules, some of which seem to make sense to folks, though many also flat out baffle us. And the grammar books and the teachers couldn't explain all the weird gaps or why so many people seemed to be comfortable using the same words and phrases in the same or similar ways without even knowing why.

What a glorious discovery it was to learn that the language I speak is so deep and complex that it can never be fully taught but only by experience - and still there is no end of it! The slang, the idioms, the memetic bullshit, all of it!

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ManyARiver@reddit

The thing is 80% of English can be taught with actual rules that do apply, instead teachers were given a pile of shit rules that do not apply and end up telling kids that English just can't be taught. It really can but you need the actual rules and to understand morphology in order to properly teach it.

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gravitydefiant@reddit

This is being corrected these days with science of reading. I teach all the rules. The other day I taught my class that a word like house ends in e even though there's no long vowel so it doesn't look like the plural of hou, for example.

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ManyARiver@reddit

Yes, this has been taught with Orton Gillingham principles for a long time. Mainstream reading instruction is catching up.

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TheSpatulaOfLove@reddit

I got this as a personalized plate for my wife’s car. Amazingly, so many people ask what it means.

🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

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HenryLoggins@reddit

I remember that for sure…. But for some reason, can’t get it right when I’m writing. 😂😂😂

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MNPS1603@reddit

We were taught “I before E except after C but there are a few exceptions”

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phillymjs@reddit

“Caffeine” is a notable exception. Knocked eighth grade me out of the Archdiocese of Philadelphia spelling bee in 1987, I had to settle for twelfth place.

I’ve never misspelled it since.

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ManyARiver@reddit

In phonetic instruction things that are true 80% or more of the time should be taught as rules. "I before e except after c" is not true half the time and shouldn't be taught - I teach dyslexic kids using intensive phonics-based intervention and that bad rule from childhood is never taught.

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Forking_Shirtballs@reddit

I'm pretty sure we weren't taught that either, because it's a pretty shitty rule. I do, however, remembering hearing it one of the Peanut's specials we all watched as a kid.

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WiseConfidence8818@reddit

The general way it was taught when I(50+ years of age) was in school was:

" I before E except after C and words like Neighbor and Weigh."

The teacher said that there were other words that didn't follow that sound, but it's a good rule of thumb to use to help with spelling certain words.

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stromm@reddit

… and in cases like weird”.

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WiseConfidence8818@reddit

Yes.

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GuitarCD@reddit

I before E, expect after C, except for "ay" as in "Neighbor" or "weigh."

...except for "Weird," because it's weird.

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GuitarCD@reddit

I remember some comedian going off to "except for NAAAAYBor" and "WAAAAY" and YOU'RE WRONG no matter what you SAY....

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SunTzuMachiavelli@reddit

just asked my 12 year old if he knew.. he didn't

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SmallHeath555@reddit

that’s a kind of a phonics lesson, they haven’t taught phonics in decades kids today can barely read because they don’t know rules like this.

Trying to explain Ph sounds like F to my then 2nd grader was hell.

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OnlyCommentWhenTipsy@reddit

It's a shite rule because there were more exceptions to it than not. The rule should've been E before I except in these five words...

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Devotion0cean@reddit

glacier

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TJH99x@reddit

🤯

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Mike6PackIPA@reddit

Who remembers the Peanuts special when Charlie Brown is in the Spelling Bee?

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Sunribbon@reddit

Exactly, I immediately thought of this and was singing the song in my head.

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Joker7099@reddit

Did you learn it in school or from Charlie Brown?

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Ma7apples@reddit

I definitely learned it on Charlie Brown. And I was pretty irritated that none of my teachers taught us these "rules." I'm a much better speller now, and I 100% credit Peanuts for that. Lol.

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Main-Feature-1829@reddit

In our curriculum, that is not taught. Because it is mostly wrong!

Instead, I taught....

For reading.... if c is followed by e, i, or y, it says /s/

For spelling.... c comes before k in the alphabet, so try c first. ----- example: spell kid. Try c first. Does c work? No. Why? Because i follows it, which would make it say /sid/. Now try k. Does k work? Yes. Kid.

With practice and repetition. Spelling will come natural.

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RedPepperVibes@reddit

Albeit wants a word

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tomboystud@reddit

My last name is E before I. From what I understand it used to be spelled I before E but two brothers got into an argument. One disowned the other and to make it official he changed the spelling.

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canuckEnoch@reddit

I used to think if Einstein was so smart, how’d he get the I before E thing wrong >twice< in his own name?

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Abject-Resort-5558@reddit

I before E, except after C or when sounding like “a” as in “Neighbor” and “Weigh”. I taught daughters this but I don’t think they teach this in schools. TBH my children weren’t penalized for bad spelling in school. If the teacher could sound it out, it was fine. It’s sad. I see such awful spelling everywhere and it can completely change the meaning of a statement. I guess we should blame the Gen X teachers who just said, “Whatever, close enough” 🤣

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Rocknhoo@reddit

Omg "close enough." The King's English is dead. I see it in papers my community college students write for me. It's appalling. I'm sorry, but grammar and spelling matter. Or maybe they don't anymore? Would a college applicant get admitted if their major essay writing was "close enough?"

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Present-Assignment99@reddit

I think with the increased use of emojis we're on the fast track to an eventual all picture "written" language. It worked once...sort of. 😂

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Rocknhoo@reddit

Good point 😜 sad though. Language is how we pass on our culture to subsequent generations. If the language dies, so does the culture. In my opinion, some things just can't be expressed with emojis (please, thank you, I'm sorry, excuse me, "why", etc.)

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FlatulousStanko@reddit

Weird.

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YogurtclosetFair5742@reddit

I remember my 9th grade English teacher keeping me after class because I kept failing or getting a D on spelling tests. I told the teacher I was quite capable of using a dictionary. The papers I typed up for class didn't have the spelling errors my spelling tests had. Because I would use a dictionary.

There are still words I can't spell properly 40+ years later. Spell checker/dictionary are my best buds.

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ChiefinLasVegas@reddit

Receipt would like a word.

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buster_de_beer@reddit

It's not in any way correct, so it shouldn't be taught.