Israel kills 11 Palestinian family members in Gaza’s deadliest truce breach
Posted by upbeatchief@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 389 comments
Posted by upbeatchief@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 389 comments
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
"The attack happened on Friday evening when a tank shell was fired by Israeli forces at a civilian vehicle carrying the Abu Shaaban family in the Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City, according to Gaza’s civil defence
Seven children and three women were among those killed when the Israeli military fired on the vehicle as the family attempted to reach their home to inspect it, civil defence spokesperson Mahmoud Basal said in a statement."
Zellgun@reddit
One could argue that ceasefire was not breached since it’s between Hamas and Israel but then why are they shooting unarmed civilians? Let’s say they thought it was Hamas, then they were actively targeting Hamas despite the ceasefire?
Curious how Israel will explain this. I mean besides the usual bullshit of “this incident is under [perpetual] review [which will always result in “there was no wrongdoing” OR the mass murderer that committed this has been demoted and removed from their position but free to go]”
alt-right-del@reddit
Not much of cease fire if Israel is still allowed to shoot Palestinians, Israel never figured out who in Gaza was Hamas or not — so this is a breach of the agreement
km3r@reddit
Not much of a ceasefire if hamas is summary executing any Palestinians that are suspected allied with Israel either.
Ala117@reddit
Not beating idf and bibi stanning allegations any time soon.
km3r@reddit
It's wild that you are so hateful of Israeli civilians that you can't recognize someone could think killing innocents is wrong no matter who does it.
Really, you need to take a step back. You can be against Bibi and against Hamas. You don't have to spew hatred that attacking civilians is somehow okay.
Ala117@reddit
It's wild that you are so hateful of Palestinian civilians that you can't recognize someone could think killing innocents is wrong no matter who does it.
Really, you need to stop with the Whataboutism and focus on the thread's subject instead of bring up khamas.
km3r@reddit
I very clearly said targeting civilians is wrong. Sorry you can't read.
Ala117@reddit
Then why not say that instead of bringing khamas in a thread about your idf heroes mudering Palestinian civilians huh?
km3r@reddit
Because, if you pay attention to context, they were discussing this killing as violating the ceasefire, and if this is violating the ceasefire, then so is Hamas execution of civilians suspected of collaborating with Israel.
Violations of ceasefires have a very different context if both sides are doing it vs just one, so it is important context.
I'm not going to discuss further with someone that needs to insert childish jabs about idolizing a military. Talk like an adult and we can continue.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Your logic is absurd. If the IDF kill an Israeli civilian is that breaking the ceasefire?
This is just stupidity piled over stupidity to justify the IDF murdering children.
km3r@reddit
If IDF is summary executed an Israeli civilian that was working with Hamas, yes that would be breaking the ceasefire.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
km3r:
That is surely one of the all-time dumbest takes on Reddit. Would that apply to Israeli citizens? How about Hamas members and supporters in the West Bank?
km3r@reddit
A ceasefire is a ceasefire. It doesn't entitle you to execute people you think are with the enemy. Either they are actually, and you just killed an enemy asset or ally, or they aren't and you just killed an innocent person.
Ala117@reddit
Don't bring up khamas and condemn this act instead, don't try to deflect and give more impunity to israel if you don't wanna be called idf and bibi stan.
km3r@reddit
Sorry not responding to children.
Ala117@reddit
You just responded.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Really? Is that breaking the ceasefire? Why didn’t Israel say anything?
You IDF apologists just like to lie…
km3r@reddit
How is it not? If Hamas is killing people because they are helping Israel.
Because Israel doesnt want the ceasefire to end, and calling that out doesn't help. They call out the failure to return the bodies because they do care about that.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
This is just abject stupidity piled over abject stupidity. If Israel didn’t want the ceasefire to end they wouldn’t be going out of their way to mass murder more civilians in Gaza or shooting kids in the West Bank.
If they wanted the ceasefire to last they would be allowing Palestinians to import heavy earthmoving equipment and time to find the bodies of the hostages.
Instead they are continuing their murder spree at a reduced rate. Not an indication they want peace at all.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
The israelis claim they get to kill them because they crossed the ceasefire line. A line with no marking, withost Palestinans lacking internet access this family likely mistook where they can go.
And the israelis delighted in seeing a chance to kill civilians fired a tank shell at them instead of firing in the air to scare Them or give them a verbal warning or even apprehending them.
meister2983@reddit
Oh come on. Even if you don't know where the exact line is, don't move beyond densely populated areas. It's pretty obvious when you are in a potentially off limit area
Ropetrick6@reddit
You don't just get to murder innocent civilians, war crime supporter.
meister2983@reddit
It's not murder if they pass into combatant only land
Ropetrick6@reddit
There is literally no such thing as "combatant only land", that's bullshit you just made up.
It's murder, plain and simple.
meister2983@reddit
Sure there is. No man's land. It's a thing in many places.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
And is the Korean border marked? Yes. Was this? No.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
On the korean border they fire warning shots if a soldier enters it and if you look at the list of border incidents for the past 10 years they normally get detained not killed.
North Korea is a rogue state like Israel tho.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Even North Korea fires warning shots and doesn’t target civilians. Israel targets civilians.
Ropetrick6@reddit
And is the Korean border located in the Levant?
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
This guy sounds psychotic at this point.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
What’s a densely populated area right now in Gaza?
fuckmaxm@reddit
Hey there’s a roughly 30 foot perimeter outside your house don’t leave it or you get a tank shell shot at you
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Yeah? What makes it obvious? The dead bodies of people before you?
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
Is it the family's fault for trying to return home and away from a densely populated refugee camp? Not to mention they simply might lacked a space to put down a tent in these densely populated areas.
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
Even if it was clearly marked, the laws in war do not permit killing civilians just because they wandered into a conflict zone. It is a crime to set up an indiscriminate killzone under any circumstances. They're not even arguing that it was accidental or collateral damage of a legitimate strike.
jjonj@reddit
"Suspected suicide car bomb"
Ropetrick6@reddit
So it's okay for Hamas to bomb any Israeli vehicle going vaguely in the direction of Gaza? Is that what you're saying?
jjonj@reddit
If Israel had a history of suicide bombings then sure
Ropetrick6@reddit
Also, that Israeli vehicle could have had illegal settlers, so they were forced to defend themselves from that threat and to use maximal force in its destruction.
km3r@reddit
It's really gross that you are justifying shooting civilians.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Illegal settlers are not civilians for the purpose of international law and the Geneva Conventions, they are an occupying force on land that isn't theirs.
Try again, child murder supporter.
km3r@reddit
Okay, going along with your lie, so you are saying, without evidence, it's okay to assume every vehicle in Israel contains settlers.
Do you think the same about Palestine? Can we assume every vehicle contains Hamas?
Ala117@reddit
You're heroes in the idf are already doing that buddy.
km3r@reddit
You seem to have no problem with it? So why do you care?
Ala117@reddit
I care because you're wrong and projecting, you're the one who doesn't seem to have a problem with what your idf heroes are doing which is why you and your buddies are bringing up khamas to move the thread's goalposts.
km3r@reddit
No you are the one defending attacks against civilians. I've said nothing in defense of the IDF here.
But, it's speaks volumes that you think it's okay for your side to attack civilians but not the other.
Both are wrong. Targeting civilians is never okay.
Ala117@reddit
In your dreams idf stan.
Describes zionists perfectly.
Tell that your hero bibi.
km3r@reddit
Fuck Bibi, he's a war criminal.
Wild that you can't say it's not okay to attack civilians. Just insane.
Ala117@reddit
I have no doubt you want to.
I'm not an idf stan like you, again stop projecting.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Israel certainly has a history of bombing innocent civilians, just take a look at the state of Gaza.
Phenergan_boy@reddit
They shot a kid playing soccer yesterday too. Just an immoral occupied force with the license to kill
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
There are those that don't see anything wrong with whatbisrael did. I posted this on worldnews and already had two replys saying firing a tank round into a civilian vechile is fine actually because the israelis say the crossed the ceasefire line.
Phenergan_boy@reddit
Worldnews is 100% astroturfed by the Israeli government
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
It's 100% is. Seeing the upvotes- downvotes ratio is crazy. Nothing bad about Israel is allowed to have a ratio higher than 37%, they are burying posts.
SirGaylordSteambath@reddit
At this point if you're not banned from there you haven't been doing a good enough job 😂
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
I don't engage with that sub a lot. But the past few days it seemed like their grip was loosing, so i thought to test my luck. This subreddit still have a few pro israel users and i wanted to compare how they reply here and on worldnews.
Post got deleted under 20 minutes. Lol.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
Pretty sure theres no normal humans left in that sub.
blazeroman@reddit
Worldnews is bad, ao is that sub called israelpalesine where it's an israel echochamber and anything else gets downvoted to oblivion.
Treadwheel@reddit
Last time I stuck my head into /r/israelpalestine the top post was an essay on how Zionist terrorism was justifiable and therefore could not be compared to Palestinian terrorism, which is simply murderous. I decided to save myself the hate-read.
Also, in both: The lovely cultivation of "Pally" as a slur, in the same spirit as the short form racists favour for Pakistanis.
Airowird@reddit
As a gamer, calling them paladins as a slur is hilariously ironic.
No-Contribution-6150@reddit
I mean, this article also refers to Hamas as "Gazas civil defence."
The same civil defence that executes its own civilians summarily, without trial.
The bias is strong everywhere. Many subs have an opposite, this one included.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
Well that's a question we have to ask israel about, why they bomb all courthousess and police stations in gaza?
Easy to condemn hamas's actions, the question is what else are they supposed to do?
Give an answer to these questions:
1- are there miltias armed by israel in gaza?
2- should they be allowed to operate in gaza ot be stopped?
3- what methods do hamas habe to deal with they if you said no the previous question?
loggy_sci@reddit
Hamas executed people and disappeared people before Oct 7th too. This idea that they are executing people because they don’t have a courthouse is bananas
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
So have israel, we aren't talking about disappeared people though, we talk about how has dealt with the gangs armed by israel.
Dis they have a different way to deal with them?
loggy_sci@reddit
Put them in jail and give them a trial and not murder them and their families in the street
m0ngoos3@reddit
Based on countless Israeli lies, I actually find Hamas to be more trustworthy.
But I also know that Hamas literally would not exist without the support of the Israeli government, because it's easier to paint all Palestinians as terrorists when the people in charge are Hamas.
Remember, the IDF was literally formed from three very murderous terrorist organizations. Some of whom had adopted Nazi race science, but swapped "God's Chosen People" and the Aryans. To this day, Israeli children are taught that Palestinians are somehow less than human, that they're all terrorists and should be killed for the "safety" of the Israeli government.
Which, I must say every time I bring it up, is just as much nonsense as the original Nazi version.
loggy_sci@reddit
This is a mistake
The rest of your post is whataboutism.
m0ngoos3@reddit
Again, comparing the two, the *literal terrorist organization* has always been more truthful and trustworthy than the Israeli government under Netanyahu.
This is objective fact.
I mean, I'd never in a million years subject myself to Hamas, but at least they're honest in their brutality. They aren't pretending to be anything but what they are.
Meanwhile, the Israeli government is completely genocidal, but constantly lies about it. They constantly and deliberately target hospitals, aid workers, journalists, and anyone else who documents their constant crimes against humanity.
Fuck, IDF soldiers constantly murder children, both in Gaza and the West Bank. Is it any surprise that resistance groups form to fight back against brutal oppression?
loggy_sci@reddit
A liar isn’t less of a liar because a bigger liar exists. Supporting Hamas because Israel is awful is a dumb position. Both are awful. Hope that helps.
m0ngoos3@reddit
Not supporting Hamas, but I will also advocate for the complete dismantling of the Israeli government, which will also remove Hamas' largest supporter.
As a bonus, a bunch of genocidal war criminals will be in prison.
loggy_sci@reddit
Do you think Israel is currently supporting Hamas?
m0ngoos3@reddit
Yes.
Every single time the IDF murders a 5-year old hours after murdering the rest of her family.
Every blatant violation of the cease fire.
Every indignity forced on not just the people of Gaza, but also the people of the West Bank.
Every time the people of Israel literally riot in defense of IDF soldiers raping Palestinian women.
It all directly builds support for Hamas.
All because Netanyahu wants complete genocide. That's why his government has violated every single cease fire it's ever agreed to. But it's not just Netanyahu, he's just the latest in a long line of, is it war criminals if the crimes against humanity are subjagated people? I think it is...
loggy_sci@reddit
Okay so they don’t actually support Hamas any longer, you are basing this on your feelings that Israel’s actions are radicalizing people. If only the Israelis would agree to completely dissolve their country and goverment and hand over power to terrorists who want to murder them. Then western liberals and leftists will be happy. Because suddenly they love nation-building. Okay.
m0ngoos3@reddit
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session60/advance-version/a-hrc-60-crp-3.pdf
Israel did everything in their power to make Hamas the face of Palestinian resistance in Gaza, and now they delibratly murder children to drive Hamas recruitment.
All so they can have more justification for more mass murder.
loggy_sci@reddit
They did fund them. This is all well known. Those days are over. They are not currently funding them.
The idea that Israel is purposely killing children to drive recruitment is your take. Hamas would recruit just fine without that happening. They’re nationalists.
m0ngoos3@reddit
It's wild that you think that some vague idea of "nationalism" would drive recruitment to a resistance organization more than the dead bodies of someone's children.
Children who were deliberately targeted by snipers, leaving the parents unharmed.
Think about that for a moment, if you possess the empathy to. It's an evil on a level that I cannot comprehend.
That report is full of crimes against humanity, but snipers murdering children in front of their parents is just...
It says that the IDF, and Israeli government, need to be dismantled and prosecuted.
_Noreturn@reddit
Right, forever I am scared of the calendar.
Gaff_Daddy@reddit
Hamas made children be suicide bombers in the early 2000s so that first sentence is fucking wild.
m0ngoos3@reddit
Israel created Hamas. Literally. They took one of the Muslim Brotherhood clerics, built a bunch of schools and mosques for him, funneled more money directly to him, and cracked down ruthlessly on his more peaceful and secular competition.
And in the early 2000s, Israel was already covertly paying money to keep Hamas going, and then blaming Iran.
Hamas was in power, and only existed in the first place, because of Israel.
But nice whataboutism. Completely ignoring the recent Israeli crimes against humanity that I was alluding to. Like this one.
https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/the-killing-of-hind-rajab
or this,
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/06/israeli-attacks-educational-religious-and-cultural-sites-occupied
or this,
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/more-human-can-bear-israels-systematic-use-sexual-reproductive-and-other
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2q07kd3ld6o
Hell, it's all spelled out here in somewhat dry tones.
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session60/advance-version/a-hrc-60-crp-3.pdf
Hell, here's a snippet.
Gaff_Daddy@reddit
Holy conspiracy, Batman.
It’s not whataboutism, it was a direct refute of your statement that you trust Hamas more than Israel with the reason why I refute that. Nice use of classic Reddit catchphrase.
You can oppose the current Israeli government, as I do, as well. But they have a functioning political system and press that provide some semblance of check of official government statements, unlike Hamas. So that might mean very little to you, but it’s objectively more than Hamas statements are facing.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
And israel bombed the jails and the courthouse and the police stations.
So not that's no an option to deal with armed gang memebers.
It's almost like israel wanted to destroy all aspects of Palestinan society.
loggy_sci@reddit
Hamas can hide hostages but can’t lock up an alleged criminal.
The soft bigotry on display is astounding. “Hamas had to murder these people and their families in the street” because they don’t have a courtroom.
If you don’t have a courtroom then the answer isn’t to murder people without a trial. Jesus Christ it is wild the insane immoral places you will go to defend terrorists.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
Well the jailing part was to give them a trial, not indefinitely hold them right?
If the police stations the investigated this and the court that hold trials are gone, what use is holding someone you think was an israeli agent?
The people of gaza don't have the luxury of a modern functional society thanks to israel. The people they caught inside the gangs hideouts are all members of that gang. Because they can't make an investigation now.
loggy_sci@reddit
You don’t know where they were caught or the circumstances of their arrest or execution. These could be dissenters and not collaborators. They could be shoplifters for all you know.
Stop making excuses for extrajudicial public executions by jihadists.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
You seem to be doing all you can to pin this entirely on hamas as if israel is not a key part of why this is even happening.
loggy_sci@reddit
And you’re doing all you can to make people think that Hamas is incapable of not executing people because they can’t lock up alleged criminals despite being able to hold hostages.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Isn't Hamas government of Gaza strip even if we like it or not?
No-Contribution-6150@reddit
I don't know if I'd refer to a terrorist organization as a civil defence.
It also subtly backs up their legitimacy as a governing organization, of which they have no legitimacy and part of the ceasefire arrangement is to get rid of them.
hempires@reddit
no better way to celebrate a ceasefire than by shooting kids playing football and unloading a tank shell into a car carrying a family eh!
at this point, IDF should also be recognised as terrorists.
idgafsendnudes@reddit
They literally are the civil defense so you can not consider it all day long but that doesn’t have any bearing on reality because in reality they are the civil defense even if they are self interested and corrupt.
pjjmd@reddit
The designation 'terrorist' is absolutely meaningless, beyond 'formally recognized as a group the US doesn't like'. There is no other meaningful information encoded in that.
Gaza is a city of over a million people. The civil infrastructure to run the city is staffed by government employees. The guys who pick up the trash bins are government employees. The guys who directs traffic at busy intersections is a government employee. The sanitation engineers who handles piping clean water into the city, government employees.
Oh no, they are terrorist binmen, terrorist traffic cops, and terrorist plumbers.
Jesus christ, you realize how insane you sound right?
Acting as if the term 'Terrorist' has any meaning beyond 'can't fly to certain countries'.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
And who is the police? Hamas, who is the internal security force? Hamas, who is the judge and civil service? More Hamas
Where is ISF and technocrats government that also said in deal
Also USA said IRGC, one of military branch is terrorist and Iran said USA army is terrorist as well
Ropetrick6@reddit
You uh, you DO know that the IDF executes its own civilians summarily as well, right?
PetalumaPegleg@reddit
Yup I got banned ages ago, for saying can't we all agree that killing innocent children should be avoided?
That's a lifetime ban apparently
TheS4ndm4n@reddit
I got banned for saying terrorists are bad, but so is committing genocide.
Also got banned from /conservatives for saying nazi's are bad.
Go reddit.
snowflake37wao@reddit
Yeah got mine for replying to a comment about how bias reuters is with what is your followup argument when the jpost cites reuters.
It got a little crazier than astroturfing, brigading, and mod creep here and there more recently on Reddit as a whole for awhile more recently though. Like I got banned from politics for wishing harm on others this year. All I said was “once the boomers are all dead were going metric. take that! hope you have a stroke at the prospect.” It was clearly AI triggered, as they began implementing the crackdown on user violent comments while integrating AI that has no business being involved on reddit where there is so much nuance, let alone the inability to distinguish sarcasm, parody, hyperbole, and ridiculousness. I still feel really burned by that ban with no chance to reply and get human review. The only thing more ridiculous that my comment saying were going metric is not realizing the ridiculousness enough take “wishing” a stroke on every boomer seriously or deem it harmful. Seriously tho. Metric is better. Standard makes no sense now.
FearGaeilge@reddit
They didn't ban ban me, just banned me from posting. Is that normal or because it's a default sub?
Still click in to it accidentally from the front page so would love to be banned banned.
PetalumaPegleg@reddit
I can still see it sadly
THEMIKEPATERSON@reddit
Literally
Treadwheel@reddit
Over the winter I had a reply I made, nested several layers deep and with a parent comment halfway down the page somehow get downvoted into the double-digit negatives in the time it took me to refresh the page after hitting post. Either there are a huge number of remarkably fast readers who just happened to scroll to that exact point in the conversation within milliseconds of my having posted it, comprehended what I wrote, and hit downvote, or the vote manipulation going on was on a level that should be setting off alarm bells to whatever anti-spam systems they have running.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
The sub is compromised. I posted this story in this subreddit and the worldnews one. It was removed from there in inder 20 minutes.
Yet now i have new test. A story on them shooting a 11 year old Palestinan boy. It's 1 am israel time and the post is still up after 30 minutes with 8 upvotes. While still extremely downvted. It sits at about 51% upvotes-downvites ratio. Likely the have less israeli agents covering the 1 am shift. And likely mkre slread out covering american subreddits.
meister2983@reddit
If you take the questionable assumption that everyone naturally will support the palestinians
Phenergan_boy@reddit
Exhibit #1 of astroturfing, an account does nothing all day but commenting about the conflict
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
If you take the even more questionable assumption that everyone naturally will support the ~~palestinians~~ Israelis
YATFWATM@reddit
Calling them out on such things means you are a Nazi
Jmastersj@reddit
100.0000% I actually almost lost hope for humanity before realizing this. But the vile comments there are too hateful to not be zionist propaganda. They can't even hide their hate pretending to be normal people.
meister2983@reddit
No one is claiming otherwise even in this article.
DopeShitBlaster@reddit
The article does state that there isn’t anything physically indicating there is a line on the ground. Palestinians largely don’t have any internet access to figure out where the IDF will murder women and children without question.
IDF did say they will try to put up a sign so people know that they are in a kill zone, but for now it’s just a guess as to where the IDF will murder you.
IDF makes a kill zone, no one knows where it is and when a child enters it the IDF kills them and are happy about.
meister2983@reddit
Then stay put until they figure out where it is.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Does not shooting at them in the first place not even cross your mind?
meister2983@reddit
So I get blown up? No that's rediculous
DopeShitBlaster@reddit
Why do you have a US flag? You sound like a traitor that is loyal to a foreign state.
meister2983@reddit
Because I live in America duh.
DopeShitBlaster@reddit
So you just simp for Israel for fun or did you get Epsteined?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
I mean, we know you wouldn't get blown up because it was a bus with children
meister2983@reddit
And I know that how?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The bus shape? The children?
It truly is a mystery
meister2983@reddit
That's not a bus and I doubt kids were visible.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Worse: it's a car! And 11 people were stuffed inside?! You don't think you'd see them packed in there through those giant windows?
meister2983@reddit
Probably not from far away
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Then perhaps you shouldn't light them up from far away?
DopeShitBlaster@reddit
Are you IDF? Get my American flag out off your baby killing profile.
DopeShitBlaster@reddit
So still don’t go home….. you realize this event is just a microcosm of the conflict.
Palestinian family tries to go home and gets blown up by Israel.
meister2983@reddit
Well yes, they don't get to go home because their home is under Israeli control.
That are free to pressure Hamas to surrender its seems which is the criterion for Israel to pull back
PapaverOneirium@reddit
God this is pathetic.
waiver@reddit
The line only marks where HAMAS and the IDF can go, it is not a free kill license to murder civilians.
Ala117@reddit
that's monster2983 for you.
BlessadurKarl@reddit
I got perma ban on world news for calling it a genocide lol
FormerLawfulness6@reddit
So, confirmation that Israel still enforces killzones despite the ceasefire. And also that killzones are specifically set up to be completely indiscriminate. Pretty sure that is two separate war crimes.
axeteam@reddit
Which is why I don't ever see Hamas willingly giving up arms.
platp@reddit
Resistance under no circumstance should lay their arms down until a replacement force of Palestinians is created. We know what happened in Sabra and Shatila when PLO retreated. No colonizer can be trusted with unarmed people.
meister2983@reddit
Don't get your analogy. How are the Maronites colonizers?
From the example of Palestine, it's pretty clear that militants having weapons is very bad for palestinians.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Oh, you mean the Area B where illegal settlers are given free reign to murder any Palestinians that they wish, with the full support and endorsement of the IDF? Or is there a different Area B you're referring to?
meister2983@reddit
Lot lower murder rate than Gaza!
Ropetrick6@reddit
Only if you ignore the constant murders committed by the illegal settlers, with the full support and endorsement of the IDF and ISraeli government.
meister2983@reddit
No I'm not ignoring it. I'm doing the math and the kill rate is at least an order of magnitude lower
PapaverOneirium@reddit
The fact that we are comparing the “kill rate” in the two areas at all is horrifying, but just points out the common factor: Israelis
meister2983@reddit
I'm not arguing against that proximate cause, but the only question is does being armed help or harm Palestinians. The answer is harm by a longshot.
PapaverOneirium@reddit
You’re acting like Israel is some force of nature without its own agency. It isn’t “proximate” when they are the ones literally pulling the trigger.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
This guy's argument has reached the point where you realize he'd argue abolitionists are the problem because less slaves would die if they just didn't fight for their basic humanity.
meister2983@reddit
That just depends if they are winning or not. The Palestinians have just been losing more and more over 100 years, so clearly they need a new strategy.
The strategy isn't that hard:
agitatedprisoner@reddit
Were every Palestinian a progressive liberal agnostic LGBTQ+ rights supporting vegan I agree it'd be more difficult for Israeli nationalists to frame Palestinians as terrorists.
You think Palestinians should renounce land claims but my understanding is some of those claims are legitimate and one of the big reasons motivating Israeli apartheid/policy is to deny them their fair day in court precisely for that reason. Allowed to go through the courts the courts would in some cases order compensation and Israel doesn't want to compensate so they need to impose a double standard/i.e. apartheid.
If I've got this right and if some claims are legit I don't see the wisdom in enabling abusers/rights violators just because the abusers have the guns. There's a regressive attitude to the effect that it's yours if you can take it and to give the devil his due but if that's what you're suggesting it'd frame Israeli nationalists as devils and that rhetoric contradicts the necessary basis for mutual respect on which peace depends. Ordering fair value compensation in lieu of granting a right of return might be reasonable. Were every Israeli a progressive liberal agnostic LGBTQ+ rights supporting vegan Israel would allow Palestinians fair access to Israeli courts, grant fair value in compensation, and work with relatively progressive Palestinians to create a progressive Palestinian government and functional Palestinian state instead of demolishing schools in Palestine. But the reality is there are literal open racists/terrorists in top positions in Israel's government (Itamar Ben-Gvir) so maybe before you'd get to blaming Palestinians for not being the perfect victims get to blaming those Israeli religious nuts/terrorists.
meister2983@reddit
Don't see on what basis. State sovereignty allows for immigration control.
Palestine can and does litigate in the ICJ; don't get this objection.
agitatedprisoner@reddit
Nations that'd spurn international law and norms might do anything and insist it's legal. Legal doesn't imply just. There were/are Palestinians who fled prior to the war and weren't allowed to return and had their lands seized by Israel. Should they not be compensated?
meister2983@reddit
To a Palestinian that is exactly how they should think about the situation.
PapaverOneirium@reddit
October 7th was an order of magnitude bigger than any attack on Jews in a generation. Maybe Israelis should consider leaving if they want to be safe. Has living in the occupied territories actually made them safer?
meister2983@reddit
Oh I totally agree but that's outside the scope of this discussion. That said it is hard to get an American green card. Palestinians face the same issue.
Also agreed. People do it because it is cheap or because they are crazy
xray-pishi@reddit
They just want to somehow restart the conflict. They are seething about how they didn't win, how Palestinian statehood is closer than ever, how Hamas is the one who makes all the actual choices rn.
They will cycle through whatever strategies to try and provoke a reaction.
Fortunately it won't work. No way Trump is gonna let the deal fail if it can be avoided. If a Gazan does make an attack or whatever, it will be dismissed as a "lone wolf". If Israel goes any further than these "enforcing the line" actions, Trump will tighten Netanyahu's leash. This situation too makes the Israelfan seethe, which is enjoyable.
meister2983@reddit
Israeli public has little appetite to restart any conflict at this point.
Besides, the status quo is Israel is controlling 50% of Gaza, fully controlling the Egypt border and Gaza isn't getting rebuilt. What's there to restart?
xray-pishi@reddit
Agree. Military and civilian morale have absolutely cratered, never seen anything like it to be honest. Desertion and service dodging has become ridiculously common. Of course we will never get stats, but for Gideon's Chariots 2 (Gaza City offensive) IDF was at like half the strength they intended when planning.
IDF kids have been "taking their own lives" at a rate of like one per week now — many were getting called up for the sixth time ffs.
IDF just before ceasefire was starting to embed mental health counselors into each unit to stop selfharm and worse, which as far as I know has never been done by a military before.
There are some ideologues, military figures and politicians who have their reasons for wanting to start things up again, but the average Israeli citizen wants nothing less than heading back into the meat grinder for no actually good reason.
loggy_sci@reddit
this is truly delusional. Hamas asked Trump to intervene and israel can roll its tanks back in whenever it wants. Hamas is trying to stay in power. They aren’t calling the shots.
xray-pishi@reddit
I'm not saying they are calling the shots. For a month now, the questions have been, will Hamas accept these demands etc. Israel is not used to waiting on word from Hamas, hence the seething.
loggy_sci@reddit
They haven’t been waiting on word from Hamas, they’ve been bombing the shit out of them and the rest of Gaza.
xray-pishi@reddit
Except all the times where Israel has begged to reach terms and the whole world wondered for days on end of Hamas would agree.
Obviously IDF is the stronger force, and as you said can drop bombs (a strategy that famously won many wars, right?) — doesn't change the fact that it was Israel begging Trump for it.
As I said, clearly, when the ball is in the Gazan court, the Israelfan can't help but seethe, since just like your comment here shows you must cling to the idea that Israel is the one in control and calling the shots, even when it is literally trying to achieve the objectives it said it would achieve on the field (hostages back/no Hamas) via negotiations instead.
When you fail to achieve your objectives and need to negotiate them, giving up huge numbers of prisoners etc, what this means is, you didn't win. And as they say, in an asymmetric war, if the less powerful side didn't lose, then they won. For references see US military post WWII.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Trump is controlled and he knows it, the second the resistance responds they will insist it’s another pogrom and allow Israel to restart the genocide with full force
xray-pishi@reddit
I guess it all comes down to who you think controls whom. I don't think Israel has much control over trump, it's largely just inertia that keeps the relationship alive.
And sure, there's a PR war, but there always will be, and Israel has worn out its welcome in most places, nobody trusts what it says.
You may be right, but I really think Israel's on a tight leash. Netanyahu looks pretty cucked, so one question is if he'll start defying Trump to appeal to his voters, prob through random acts of genocide.
Laughing_Man_Returns@reddit
why do Palestinians keep breaching the truce by driving their cars into fired tank shells? smh.
so... how close am I to the Zionist apologoist?
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
So close that I almost downvoted you.
Laughing_Man_Returns@reddit
the measure of success.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
If you wanna know just aee the replys to this story in the worldnews subreddit, i linked here and their because i wanted to see the difference. Man it is day and night.
fuckmaxm@reddit
It’s insane how fucking turfed it is to basically just match the stance of our state department. Eglin Air Force base was 12 years ago
Jmastersj@reddit
Can you link this post on worldnews here? Cant see it in your history. Did it get deleted. Also im glad that the other post about in worldnews about israel not allowing palestinians to celebrate (how do they even come up with this shit? Like how depraved do you have to be?) has pro-palestinian comments at the top.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/s/1fbojWkYT7
Jmastersj@reddit
Ofc it got removed by moderator. 😂😂😂😂 Nah bruh. We need a better world asap. I hope the boomers die soon and the people that actually value human life take the reigns. Maybe im naive, but i really do hope, we will do better soon.
Freud-Network@reddit
The bad news is, we're not getting a better world. The good news is, the entire planet will drown in its own garbage over the next hundred years.
Jmastersj@reddit
Niiiiiiiice.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
They also wised up to my tactic 😮💨. i used to instigate engagement by asking pointed questions, like "was this the only method israel could have used to stop the car, or do the idf love to kill civilians" and I'd get tons of replys. Likely aiming to drown out critic of Israel, that had the sideeffect of boosting a post.
But now they only post a statment in defense of Israel and ignore replys,likely to stop giving a post engagement.
Laughing_Man_Returns@reddit
you should know that the only was to stop a civilian car is a tank shell. these things are super unstoppable!
Laughing_Man_Returns@reddit
if you had watched World War Z you would know exactly why Israel has to stop Palestinians from celebrating! /s
it does feel like a parody state more often than not.
weltvonalex@reddit
Not close enough, you need to drink the blood of a gazillion Arabs and colonize the moon and control all the governments at the same time and be Nazi Zionist.
Gubbinso@reddit
Some more classics to add on:
As if it justifies murdering civilians attempting to return home, while knowing full well that they have no information infrastructure beyond telegram and signal groups
🤦♂️
That's what justifies genocide to them, a generalisation of an occupied populace facing daily terror attacks and land theft from their occupiers, among other things.
My favourite hasbara attempt from the "Hamas flotilla" incident:
Laughing_Man_Returns@reddit
yeah... just yeah...
xSea206x@reddit
Did anybody actually believe Likud would respect the truce?
meister2983@reddit
Did they violate it here? The car drove into an off limits Israel controlled area
Level_Hour6480@reddit
I'm sorry, but a tank shell into a civilian vehicle. No justification for that, ever.
jjonj@reddit
The US military was ordered explicitly to do the same in the middle east when car suicide bombs were frequent. Not that it makes it moral but there can be justification under some circumstances
Avenflar@reddit
A sedan with bolted on armored plates rushing full speed toward a manned checkpoint ignoring warning shots and a van carrying a family of ten bumbling through ruins look extremely different, you'd think the tank crew would've been able to manage.
jjonj@reddit
Bolting anything on the car would take away the stealth of the bombing attack mate
Avenflar@reddit
You can't stealth a car going 110 toward a squad of soldiers and a tank on a battlefield, mate.
The plates are bolted so the driver can't be taken out by small arm fire. When they want stealth they park the car and remote detonate it 3 hours later at market time.
jjonj@reddit
why are you commenting if you have no idea what you are talking about?
Avenflar@reddit
probably should think of something more clever to say when you're out of arguments, bozo
meister2983@reddit
Good think the militants aren't just going to wise up and drive regular civilian cars!
Ropetrick6@reddit
Why do you support the murder of innocent civilians?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Almost all Zionists do. They are taught killing non-Jews in the Middle East is a good thing.
Avenflar@reddit
The famous tactic of suicide bombers with 10 passengers, lmao.
hardolaf@reddit
Both are war crimes. Both should be prosecuted.
meister2983@reddit
No they aren't
Ropetrick6@reddit
Yes they are, stop lying.
meister2983@reddit
No it isn't. If it is credible you are going to get blown up, it's a legal action to fire
Ropetrick6@reddit
Please, stop lying. It isn't credible, and is still a war crime as defined under both international law and the Geneva Conventions.
meister2983@reddit
How's it not credible? Like al aqsa Brigades hasn't used suicide bombing vehicles before?
Ropetrick6@reddit
Ah yes, a vehicle with 7 children and 3 women, with no Hamas members inside. Such a credible threat against the state of ISISrael.
meister2983@reddit
Ah yes, because Al Qassam Brigades always wears uniforms.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Ah yes, because 7 children are all definitely, undoubtedly, 100% guaranteed to be Hamas militants.
meister2983@reddit
How are they supposed to know it is a civilian vehicle? You think militants used labeled vehicles or something?
LatterTarget7@reddit
So it’s ok to kill someone because they might be militants?
meister2983@reddit
Yes actually if it meets proportionate tests. These people had no reason to be there and warning shots were fired
ebola_kid@reddit
They live there you moron
meister2983@reddit
Unfortunately for them, Israel has kicked everyone out pending Hamas' disarming
NewAccountEachYear@reddit
In what society is it logical to put a tank-shell in a buss just because you can't identify it?
meister2983@reddit
Any society fearing attacks by militant groups.
Ropetrick6@reddit
So you'd be okay with Palestinians bombing Israeli vehicles out of fear of the IDF and settlers? I just want to make certain you're not being a hypocrite here.
meister2983@reddit
Settlers are protected people. Or do you mean the violent ones?
Sure, if they set up and announce no man's lands in area they control (which is only area a and parts of Gaza), they can use force to stop Israeli terrorist attacks.
Ropetrick6@reddit
So the IDF can murder innocent Palestinian civilians whenever they like, but nothing can be done to illegal settlers unless they meet your hyper-specific restrictions on when it's okay to remove them?
For some reason I feel like you have a bit of a double standard there...
meister2983@reddit
I didn't say that. I said they need to announce the safe and unsafe areas.
Also didn't say. Palestinians have a right to self defense. But they can't legally set up road blocks in area b or c.
Ala117@reddit
Can get away with it.
And the right to be tortured and raped for that as well? You're sick and vile dude.
meister2983@reddit
now you are just inventing quotes.
Ala117@reddit
I literally quoted you buddy.
Lower_Cockroach2432@reddit
They're very clearly testing excuses to break the truce. They keep saying they'll break the ceasefire over the dead bodies, but it's quite clear they're trying to see what the closed doors international response would be.
The day that not enough European ambassadors tell them they won't support a restart of the conflict over whatever their current casus belli is, they'll go. They've already got everything they want from Hamas, there's literally nothing stopping them except for international pressure.
jjonj@reddit
no they haven't. What are you on about?
justhistory@reddit
“Civil defense” spokesperson. I wasn’t aware Gaza suddenly had an organized civil defense organization. Hmm….🤔
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
They always had one. Almkst all countries do.What's your point?
justhistory@reddit
My point is that despite the war and peace plan the only sort of governing presence at this point is Hamas. Before the war the civil defence was under the Hamas-run interior ministry. I don’t know why the media acts as if there is some legitimate civil government functioning in Gaza.
overtoke@reddit
why were they targeted? why did the soldiers pull the trigger? because there were "Seven children and three women"
Level_Hour6480@reddit
You can't make a deal with fascists.
johnfkngzoidberg@reddit
War Crimes from Israel
HockeyHocki@reddit
....
From an actual news source not a Qatari propaganda factory that wont print inconvenient details
Ropetrick6@reddit
Just a warning for everybody who's going to engage with this guy: He's literally an Israeli propagandist falsely flying the Irish flag.
Dude doesn't even know who the Black and Tans are, but he's toooooooooooooootally Irish, he swears!
HockeyHocki@reddit
You are so full of shit😂
Ropetrick6@reddit
Because I'm not falling for your lies? Sure, whatever you say, Hasbarist.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Source for me not knowing who the black and tans are? now we'll see who's telling lies🤣
Ropetrick6@reddit
Okay, prove it then. Show you know who the Black and Tans are, tell me EXACTLY what they did, and what your outlook on them is. Leave nothing out.
HockeyHocki@reddit
are you actually for real, you made the claim, you prove it
Ropetrick6@reddit
Hmmmm, a supposedly Irish person, who doesn't know who the Black and Tans are, who spends all of their time spewing out Israeli propaganda to justify murdering innocent Palestinian civilians?
Just admit you're an Israeli and save everybody some time. Those $7,000 aren't getting you past the pearly gates either way.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Irish people were some of the first to come out against whats going on in gaza since it rhymes historically with what happened to them. They do NOT fuck with this.
So guess who decided to flair themselves irish to try and muddy the waters?
If you see someone with an Irish flair and who talks like israel is god’s gift to humanity, its like almost a guarantee that its not a real irishman.
The people who sang “Lizzie’s in a ditch” in giant when Queen elizabeth died are not the kind of people who simp over other countries and their governments.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
Yeah I think several of the hasbara in here like to pretend to be Irish as a form of targeting.
HockeyHocki@reddit
So you keep saying with zero evidence to back it up. We both know who the liar is and it aint me
HockeyHocki@reddit
>Source for me not knowing who the black and tans are? now we'll see who's telling lies🤣
Ropetrick6@reddit
Says the liar.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Nah man. Are you irish or not?
Youve been suspiciously afraid of answering direct questions all over this thread.
Im taking your hesitance to answer as proof youre not Irish.
Blarg_III@reddit
What the IDF provides as an excuse isn't an "inconvenient detail". They've demonstrated time and time again that they are not a trustworthy source of information.
Intense_Judgement@reddit
"The ambulances were driving aggressively towards us"
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
So no Palestinans saw or heard the warnings, but we have to believe the idf actually acted in good faith and gave a warning?
We saw how the Israelis treated Palestinans at GHF sites. And we saw that when the Palestinans heard gunshots they always turned back and fleed.
**Except in this one time where the poor israelis had no option but to fire a tank shell at the car, not disable it with gun fire(50. Bmg rounds are made to stop cars), not lay razor wire that would stop the car, not park a tank the way of the car. We know that israeli soldiers delight in killing gazans, we watch their social media posts and this was a deliberate killing.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Hamas agreed to the demarcation lines of the IDF withdrawal, they could easily have posted a couple guys on the major roads approaching it to warn their citizens they care so much about that mightn't have got the message.
Why wouldn't they? Because lets be real a car full of Palestinians getting blown up by the IDF is a massive win for Hamas
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Honestly, one of the most infuriating parts of this is the spinelessness. Murderers and their fans that just don't have the spine to take ownership of their actions. You've been deflecting blame to Hamas for so long that Israeli soldiers firing tank shells into civilian cars is also hamas' fault.
HockeyHocki@reddit
🤡
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Hey, who fired a tank shell into a civilian car?
HockeyHocki@reddit
Who let their citizens breach the ceasefire line?
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
One question at a time, first we'll have to find out who fired a tank shell into a civilian car, then we can find out who allowed these people to cross a ceasefire line.
HockeyHocki@reddit
No the tank shell would not have been fired if those people were not on the wrong side a military ceasefire line, so the first question is who let their people cross that line
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
By who? Who fired this tank shell?
See what I mean about not having a spine, you can't even fucking say who killed these people, you have to start running defence before you even acknowledge who killed them, because that would mean assigning a smidgen of responsibility to Israelis and you can't have that.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Have no problem saying it, once you acknowledge Hamas ignored all duty of care they have to prevent their citizens crossing into an active warzone ultimately leading to their death
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Yeah, you've got no problem saying what?
And you still need a fucking preamble. Who fired the shell that killed these civilians?
"Well you have to understand Hamas has a responsibility..." And on and on. You need to set up a cover story before you admit Israel killed these people, because a straight answer means giving up on deflecting whatever responsibility you can to Hamas.
HockeyHocki@reddit
You cant do it🤣
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Now you're trying to change the topic.
All of our conversation is written down, your inability to give straight answers is visible to everyone. I don't think there's much more to be gained from a conversation with someone who is just fundamentally incapable of basic honesty.
HockeyHocki@reddit
I'm not changing topic, I'm saying you won't answer my question.
Did you see me deny Israel shot and killed a family in a car? Nope, so why would i answer your utterly pointless question
Ropetrick6@reddit
You're literally refusing to answer their question.
Who shot the tank shell into a car of innocent civilians?
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Bro wont answer until the 7,000 dollar check clears
HockeyHocki@reddit
It's written in the headline dummy
Ropetrick6@reddit
And yuet you refuse to actually say the words. Will your overseers get mad at you for doing that, I wonder?
HockeyHocki@reddit
already said i'd answer that (pointless) question if the guy would answer mine, which was making an actual point... of course the guy who's taxes fund Hamas scurried away, quelle surprise
Ropetrick6@reddit
They said they'd answer your question when you answered theirs.
It seems like you'll do anything and everything in your power to avoid answering the question: who was it that fired a tank shell at a car of innocent civilians?
celloh234@reddit
These fuckers dont even have a delusion of justification. They support idf and israel knowing they are breaching every human rights and war crimes ever, knowing that they are commiting genocide
HockeyHocki@reddit
You seriously think i'm 'afraid' of stating the blindingly obvious? they breached a ceasefire line, approached military deployment of course they got lit up by the IDF. What a fucking waste of keystrokes you lot are.
MobileMenace420@reddit
The double standards from you 🙄. Just admit that the idf fired on and killed these people and the other guy can say his thing in response to your whataboutism.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Actions that would have prevented their death is whataboutism, classic.
And did you see me deny Israel fired and killed those people, nope
MobileMenace420@reddit
Cool now also a strawman since I never said you deny it, just that you were refusing to acknowledge in plain English that the idf tank fired the round that set this all off. ‘Yes it was an Israel unit that killed them’ would suffice and then the dialogue could carry on. But you wouldn’t do that and instead flipped to a question back at them.
That might not really be a whataboutism but it sure filled the same role.
HockeyHocki@reddit
In reality i've absolutely no problem admitting Israel shot and killed the people in the car, of course they did. I knew Mr. Iranian fella was never going to engage in good faith with my question about Hamas, that's why i passed a question back to him
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
Ah yes, These hamas guys are so evil they forced the hand of the poor hapless idf soldiers to blow up a car carrying a family, i personally think being anywhere within gun range of idf soldiers is not a safe place for any gazan to be in.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Correct, aka the deployment line of the withdrawal. God forbid you simps attribute any responsibility to Hamas to prevent their citizens from crossing over it.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
Israel gun and tank fire can reach way past the line. And again killing a family by tank fire because they got lost in a military zone under ceasefire is a warcrime. Something israel is found of.
IdiAmini@reddit
Every statement the IDF makes should be considered a lie until actual proof comes out. They do not deserve the benefit of the doubt at all
Khers@reddit
Hasbarists got a small reprieve where they could feign moral outrage over Hamas executing gang members and collaborators and other heinous acts. Before IDF started reminding people they're worse by and order of magnitude.
platp@reddit
We all knew there were collaborate with Israeli terrorists. It is the right thing to deal with those collaborators. In ideal circumstances they would be first tried and given a fair chance to defend themselves. But nothing is even close to those ideal circumstances in Gaza thanks to Israeli terrorists.
jjonj@reddit
I don't disagree but lets not pretend that Hamas is some first world bastion of justice
Ala117@reddit
"but" you obviously are.
jjonj@reddit
No I don't, are we just making up opinions for eachother?
You support trump you pedo protector
Ala117@reddit
Then why the "but"? trying to whatabout your way into deflecting from the atrocity this thread is about?
Projecting much?
jjonj@reddit
Have you never seen but used before?
"But" does not reverse the sentence before it, that would be fucking dumb mate
Ala117@reddit
i agree, it's shameful you're doing that.
Of course it isn't to you, you came here to whatabout and shift the focus to khamas.
calling me a "trump pedo supporter" is a "criticism" to you? of course it is.
jjonj@reddit
Whatabout is not a word or term, are you thinking of whataboutism? But that would make zero sense as whataboutism doesn't make any fucking sense here.
So your logic is that when I reply to a comment about Hamas by talking about Hamas, then I am trying to change the subject to Hamas
What the fuck are you smoking
Ala117@reddit
Ftfy.
jjonj@reddit
I did not reply to a comment about Israel's murder of children mate, I replied to a comment about Hamas, you can see it here in case your memory has expired
platp@reddit
Why would that even be expected from some resistance of people who were terrorized all their lives and to whom every war crime possible was imposed? How would they even be a bastion of justice while they are fighting one of the most brutal occupation in the world?
I am not saying they are perfect or close to it either but I am saying expecting them to be perfect (or close to it) is completely unfair.
Fire_tempest890@reddit
Hamas is horrible. Israel is also horrible. If you can't admit that, then it's just a bad faith argument on either side
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
They are, but they are not equally horrible.
Fire_tempest890@reddit
It's not really productive to have a dick measuring contest of which is the worst. Both are genocidal and killed a lot of innocent people. One just has a lot more power to do more of it. Both should be condemned
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
“Both sides” BS. “They are both bad, so let’s keep the status quo and watch the west lavishly fund Israel to commit genocide! “
Ala117@reddit
Shut the fuck up about khamas, you and your buddies are the one being bad faith right now talking about "bOtH SiDeS" instead of one side's atrocity this thread is about.
jjonj@reddit
Who is expecting them to be perfect? Where did that come from?
icatsouki@reddit
was there a trial for them? IDF being bad doesn't make hamas good
IdiAmini@reddit
Every single building is destroyed. Israel have made sure that civil society in Gaza is no longer supported by police, judges etc. They either murdered them and if they did not, they made sure every building was destroyed
Hard to have a trial in those circumstances. And let's not forget who they executed, ISIS membersv armed by Israel who were stealing food and were getting orders from the IDF. Collaborators. Seeing as Israel supporters like to harken back to ww2, do you know how many collaborators were killed on the spot after liberation? An awful lot!
icatsouki@reddit
how do we know though
IdiAmini@reddit
Because it has been exhaustively reported? But, of course you believe every word the lying IDF says
Get lost
Forged-Signatures@reddit
Maariv (Israeli Newspaper) - Abu Shabab (gang leader) was in Palastine prison for drug offenses until he 'escaped' (many sources are dubious whether he actually escaped or was freed with a deal) and Israel viewed him as someone who could fill the power vacuum in Rafah (Gaza Strip).
https://m.maariv.co.il/news/military/article-1202789
United Nations, per Guardian (and Maariv above) - Israel admits to arming Abu Shabab's group "to reduce IDF casualties" and undermine Hamas - per IDF spokesperson. Abu Shabab's gang were the group attacking aid aid convoys, with apparently indifference or seeming approval (ie, no response) from the Israeli military personnel assigned to protect them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/10/abu-shabab-the-israeli-agent-gaza-war
Times of Israel - Another article about the arming of the gangs, and how it was controversial due to fears of the guns being turned on Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com/threats-or-nuisance-after-years-of-cooperation-some-gaza-clans-rise-up-against-hamas/
illEagle96@reddit
How do you do trials just days after getting out of a war, with most of your buildings left in ruins?
jjonj@reddit
They won't have to. Hamas is seemingly not going to honor the rest of the peaceplan so the ceasefire will end
Ropetrick6@reddit
It's Israel that was violating the peace agreement though...
jjonj@reddit
How is that relevant?
Ropetrick6@reddit
Because Israel is supposed to not be murdering innocent Palestinian civilians, and yet here we are.
Leshawkcomics@reddit
Don’t bother.
Pretending Israel breaking the ceasefire is not relevant to the state of the ceasefire is 100% “Im only in this conversation to frustrate and waste your time and i genuinely dont have any good faith responses. Just outright misinformation “ talk
jjonj@reddit
I still don't see how it's relevant. Do you just go replying "It's Israel that was violating the peace agreement though..." to random comments for no reason?
Ropetrick6@reddit
Answer this question: why do you support Israel's murder of innocent civilians, including children?
jjonj@reddit
I don't.
Now you answer this one: Why do you go around assuming peoples opinions?
Ropetrick6@reddit
On a thread about Israel breaking the peace deal by murdering innocent civilians. Not to mention Israel breaking the peace deal by restricting aid, or by continuing to fund and support terrorists in Gaza, or..
jjonj@reddit
So you demand answers to questions but refuse to answer them yourself?
Ropetrick6@reddit
I answered your question. You refuse to answer mine.
jjonj@reddit
Maybe you should read the comment i replied to originally
jjonj@reddit
How is that relevant to any of my comments...?
Ala117@reddit
only a matter of time before one of these monsters come here to defend this shit and tell you how it's not the same because only israel is allowed to do this.
waiver@reddit
They have been avoiding these topics like the plague because it makes rather evident their double standard.
Ala117@reddit
dry season maybe bold enough to come here justifying it though.
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Some "ceasefire". Israel just plays by different rules and Palestinian lives don't matter. Let's imagine the response if Hamas killed 11 Israelis in a breach of the ceasefire. The world is just so used to Palestinians dying that it's not a big deal anymore. It's really sad.
imunfair@reddit
I mean it was utterly predictable - if Hamas doesn't understand the rules by now it's their own fault for being so dense and repeatedly falling for the same trick.
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
What options were open to them?
Intense_Judgement@reddit
Classic Israeli ceasefire. The IDF fires until Gazans cease
yeltsin98@reddit
This Russian ‘Israeli’ I know (he’s been living there for three years and has no family living there, I do not understand how these people can call themselves Israeli with a straight face) restarted an debate with me yesterday despite our not having talked in a few days and him saying he didn’t want to ruin his day with ‘politics’. All sorts of radical far-right racist garbage, Smotrich level, and this despite my being Arab.
“So, how’s it going in Gaza? I see they’re still killing each other even now that the evil Jews are gone. Seems like they just can’t help themselves.”
I responded to this calmly and he replied that he grew up in a patriarchal family and refused to debate a woman. With citizens like that I don’t think they need anyone’s help in self-combusting one day.
waiver@reddit
Certainly the pro-Israeli people who complain about the militia collaborators being killed will come here to express their outrage to these extrajudicial killings.
icatsouki@reddit
you don't have to be pro israeli to be against hamas executing people
HourEast5496@reddit
I thought you people didn't like ISIS?
Leshawkcomics@reddit
You dont have to be pro palestinian to recognize concern trolling.
And everyone who was clutching their pearls about it all said the same thing
Not “Damn, this is a bad thing, those people deserved better and its wrong to do that”
But “See! Youre not condemning hamas! You are the truly evil ones for openly condemning child murder and not this!”
That dehumanization of the victims to push an agenda of whataboutism was obvious from a mile away.
Its the whole “Youre not currently focusing on sudan so youre clearly just faking that you care about palestine” argument we see trotted out here that only treats sudanese people as a prop by people who couldn’t care less themselves.
ycnz@reddit
Those executions really didn't look great, but it wasn't a fucking car full of kids.
waiver@reddit
Meh, I would complain if there was a good case that they were hunting down political opposition but so far they seem to be attacking the Israeli armed militias and clans that were looting and robbing other Palestinians. Those people need to go so the order will be restored.
jjonj@reddit
No actually, they are only hunting down and executing rapist satanist baby eaters, trust me.
waiver@reddit
I don’t see the point in defending those who have preyed on innocent Palestinians. There’s a reason people are cheering for those executions, isn’t there? What’s the alternative you’re suggesting? Letting them continue looting and robbing people until the courts and prisons, which were destroyed by Israel, are rebuilt?
jjonj@reddit
You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth
What is it you are hallucinating that my opinion is?
waiver@reddit
You should express your opinion clearly instead of making a dumb sarcastic comment.
jjonj@reddit
And you should stick to the truth instead of making stuff up that fits your narrative
waiver@reddit
Since you are clearly incapable of making an argument, I am done with wasting my time. Have fun.
loggy_sci@reddit
you can be against both.
Ala117@reddit
Which one of both is still getting rewarded with more money, weapons and immunity though?
Mavian23@reddit
That's his point ...
The__Hivemind_@reddit
You truly arent against both.
1) I have never seen you say anything bad about isreal
2) All you do is deflect the responsibility from the west
3) You dickride genocide Harris. A Harris supporter saying they are anti israel is like a NSDAP supporter saying they are against antisemetism
loggy_sci@reddit
I don’t need to prove anything to you. You don’t run this subreddit. Fuck off, tankie. How many times do I have to say it.
You joyride Palestinian suffering because you hate the west. I don’t give a single shit about what you think about anything, because you are morally bankrupt and your values are dog shit.
What the fuck is your problem? I didn’t dickride Harris I thought she was better than Trump. She also airdropped aid into Palestine and said Palestinians were being starved. You’re just another aggrieved leftist who is enraged that liberals exist. You are boring in the extreme. Nothing you say is ever interesting or insightful. I have no interest in interacting with a fucking dummy. Go away.
The__Hivemind_@reddit
1) Only problem is you haven't proven anything for anyone.
2) you just say that cause it makes you feel better but you haven't proved it.
3) She also has yet to call it a genocide (literally getting outmanouvered to it by Marjorie Titan Green and KKKandanSS OwenSS) and also was ribidly a zionist who planned to keep supplying Israel with enough bombs and money to genocide 100 gazas.
loggy_sci@reddit
Unhide your post history, coward.
“gEnOcIDe HaRrIs” you are fighting battles that are a year old and stale, comrade. Clearly you just want to bicker with liberals because you’re a terminally online leftist and that is your entire reason for existing. You actually do not give a shit about Palestinians.
Go purity test people that actually give a shit about your approval. I’m not the one.
The__Hivemind_@reddit
Ok, I will.
Why cause I called her a fascist?
"terminally online leftist". I'm married.
"You actually do not give a shit about Palestinians". I do, I've been active in my country to pressure the government to stop support. Have you?
loggy_sci@reddit
No sane person on the planet thinks Kamala Harris is a fascist. This is what you get when your simple brain cooks too long in an echo chamber.
Do you see how easy it is to accuse people of shit?
You also didn’t unhide your post history, you pro-Russian, pro-imperialist hypocrite. This is the last time I’m going to respond to you. You are literally not worth even the most basic reply or another minute of my time.
The__Hivemind_@reddit
"No sane person on the planet thinks Kamala Harris is a fascist. This is what you get when your simple brain cooks too long in an echo chamber". Why? She is a Democrat after all.
"You also didn’t unhide your post history, you pro-Russian, pro-imperialist hypocrite". I was searching how to do it. I did it now
loggy_sci@reddit
“Democrats are fascists”
Is the kind of ridiculous brain-dead take you get when you spend too much time posting in leftists spaces. They hate liberals so much that they embrace far right imperialists and mafioso kleptocracies like Russia. Your beliefs are a punchline you hypocrite.
Leave me alone.
The__Hivemind_@reddit
"Is the kind of ridiculous brain-dead take you get when you spend too much time posting in leftists spaces". Invasion of foreign land, creation of leaving space, corporatism. Sounds fascistic to me
"Leave me alone." But i thought you didn't want to reply to me? Why are you replying to me? What causes you to reply to me fascist?
loggy_sci@reddit
Everything sounds fascistic to you because you’re not smart enough to see the very obvious differences between a boilerplate liberal U.S. politician and a fascist. In your pathetic little echo chambers you probably get upvoted for saying such trite nonsense.
Anyway it’s all fake bullshit because you support Russia, for gods sakes. You’re the biggest hypocrite here. Kamala Harris at least was honest while you larp as a leftist and support imperialism because you hate the west real, real bad. Don’t worry, you’ll grow out of it.
The__Hivemind_@reddit
So why are you against only one?
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Lol, people who say they don't like either side are always pro-Israel. It basically means let's do nothing and let Israel carry on with the genocide.
The__Hivemind_@reddit
Thank you!
loggy_sci@reddit
Fuck off tankie. I’m against both. I just don’t go so far as call for the destruction of the Israeli state so you think I’m basically hitler. Your posts are dogshit and I have no interest in interacting with you.
Drab_Majesty@reddit
Well at least Israel is right back to the pre October 7th level of peace we have all grown accustomed to and used to. We can now go back to ignoring the plight of Palestinians, war is over.
meister2983@reddit
Correct. We now have peace and Israel has 50% of Gaza which is never getting rebuilt at this rate
Drab_Majesty@reddit
I have peace, this is not peace. Have you got enough copium to share with the other boot lickers?
meister2983@reddit
Full peace isn't happening obviously. The basic disarm ask to Hamas seems to not be happening so we can't proceed forward with the plan
Ropetrick6@reddit
Why do you support child murder?
meister2983@reddit
Where did I say that?
Ropetrick6@reddit
By trying to justify this literal act of child murder. By your history of trying to justify Israelis murdering children. By continuing to give your undying support to Israel, in spite of its continued dedication to murdering Palestinian children.
meister2983@reddit
Who says I have undying support for Israel?
Both sides suck and I assess each situation. Militaries can set up no man's lands when there's a high risk of attacks from concealed paramilitary.
Blame al Qassam Brigades and friends for not operating with uniforms
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
lol. This is an example of Zionists’ contempt for others. They really do expect us to believe that they aren’t diehard Zionist apologists and IDF supporters if they occasionally post drivel like the above in between slavishly supporting “the IDF’s right to defend themselves” by mass-murdering children.
meister2983@reddit
Yawn. And the anti Israel side thinks militants just get to gain invincibility by embedding themselves as civilians
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
“Ignore my support for mass murdering children! I meant militants!”
Ropetrick6@reddit
You know, if ISISrael hadn't funded and supported them, then they wouldn't be in a position to pose any threat to the IDF.
As always, it all goes back to Zionists deciding to make the world an objectively worse place.
meister2983@reddit
Highly doubtful. There's a large section of Palestinian society that will not reject maximal demands to destroy Israel, so someone is going to play that role.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Uh huh, suuuuuuuuuuuuuure.
Anyways, about those people in ISISrael celebrating the atrocities committed against Palestinians...
meister2983@reddit
A problem as well but not one the Palestinians can control
Drab_Majesty@reddit
Yeah that's the thing with agreements... both sides need to agree. Considering Israel has broken the signed agreement several times already, I don't think they are seeking peace.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Ah yes, murdering innocent children, so peaceful.
I hope that $7,000 was worth your soul.
Pookie5213@reddit
$7,000?
Ropetrick6@reddit
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-869303
Israel is paying people upwards of $7,000 a post to spout propaganda
platp@reddit
Our fight won't be over until Palestinians are safe. And that seems not possible with Israeli terror regime in place.
blazeroman@reddit
I was looking into polls, i thought with the genocide and being wanted to ICJ netanyahu and all likud wouldn't be favorable.
Guess what. They are expected to secure 6 to 10 more seats than before.
If someone tells you neyanyahu doesn't represent the Israeli government, it's safe to believe they are lying.
Historical-Gap-7084@reddit
We all knew this "cease fire" was bullshit and Israel wouldn't adhere to it, right?
Right?
It's just a ruse to get Palestinians back into Gaza so they can genocide them more easily.
RockstepGuy@reddit
I mean, it's not?
Even the article says that Israel should had treated the situation different, but the thing is they didn't breach the ceasefire, since they did attack after the vehicle had crossed the "yellow line" implied in the ceasefire, wich Israel treats as a "shoot on sight after this line".
Ceasefire still aplies, it's just Israel abusing it to the extreme.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
This is what is think of the ceasefire.
https://theonion.com/israel-agrees-to-go-back-to-killing-palestinians-on-less-frequent-basis/
Historical-Gap-7084@reddit
I hate how on-point The Onion is on this.
UInferno-@reddit
With every other news organization in the pocket of the same 5 billionaires the onion is like the last truly left leaning American paper.
cdnhistorystudent@reddit
"Peace, peace," they say, when there is no peace. Are they ashamed of their detestable conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. - Jeremiah 6:14-15
meister2983@reddit
Talk about bias from al Jazeera. How is this a truce breach of the car hit was under Israeli line of control? They are still allowed to fire within their own lines of control, just not the area they withdrew from
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
Let's say Russia killed 11 Ukrainian civilians for crossing their defined line. Would you not condemn that?
meister2983@reddit
Do the Ukrainians regularly attack Russians in unmarked vehicles? I don't believe so, so this would not be credible.
If they did,I would not condemn this situation
Anton_Pannekoek@reddit
It's an obvious warcrime.
Ala117@reddit
Monsterous and vile.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Stop supporting child murder.
meister2983@reddit
Stop encouraging palestinians to be suicidal
Ropetrick6@reddit
Ah yes, being suicidal by *checks notes* driving to their legal abode. That makes sense, 100%, totally, undoubtedly, indubitibly.
Anywho. how's that $7,000 from the Israeli government treating you?
meister2983@reddit
Yes that's suicide of it is passing through the Israeli occupied area
???
FrostWyrm98@reddit
Super biased, I can't believe Al Jazeera is outraged about 7 kids being killed by a tank shell. They clearly were asking for it by going to their home, sheesh
meister2983@reddit
I don't care that they're outraged. But it is a complete lie to claim this is a ceasefire violation
FrostWyrm98@reddit
They worded it weirdly, they should've called it "crossed into Israel's occupation zone" since crossing past the yellow line could mean into Palestinian territory?
Still doesn't really matter to me, war crime at best, but I see your point
justhistory@reddit
Look, I’m a hardcore Israel supporter and can see the argument for dispersing wrong throwing youths, but soldiers need to be deescelating things through other means. There is no reason live ammunition, even if it just meant as warning shots, needs to be used on rock throwers.
CompressedLaughter@reddit
Jesus jumped up backflipping Christ. It’s almost like they feel it’s fine to commit a genocide because of hitler and what to happened to them instead of believing deep in their psyche that that kind of thing should never happen to anyone.
blancrabbiit@reddit
I think this news piece would've been more credible if it weren't from a media conglomerate funded by the Qatari government..
Unfortunately, This comment will be largely downvoted because I'm an Israel apologist apparently(?) because I don't condemn Israel to the point I would wish for its destruction.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
So long as the martyr fund exists, any claim of "They were just civilians and just happen to be driving towards a tank" will always ring hollow.
Ropetrick6@reddit
Why was there a tank between them and their home?
Also, Israel funds the illegal settlers, you've got no grounds to argue on.
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
What'sartyr fund?
IdiAmini@reddit
Not apparently. You clearly are
upbeatchief@reddit (OP)
Is this news story about 11 civilians being killed in gaza something that did happen or a fake story from al jazeera?
dova_kinn@reddit
The attack happened on Friday evening when a tank shell was fired by Israeli forces at a civilian vehicle carrying the Abu Shaaban family in the Zeitoun neighbourhood of Gaza City, according to Gaza’s civil defence.
they literally fired a tank shell into civilians again , evil just pure evil fucks and they have already more then 50 civilians when there is supposed to be a ceasefire.
Dawn_of_Enceladus@reddit
And 7 of those 11 killed were children, apparently. Shall Israel never be forgiven for all these unending atrocities. Not until every single politician, soldier and settler that has participated in all of this ends in prison for the rest of their lives. But again, that would require morals, and there's none to be found in that gods forsaken genocidal sect.
PartySr@reddit
They used huge speaks and removed controlled the phones in Gaza to transmit Hitler's message, but here, they don't even announce them that they are breaching the line. They fire to kill without remorse.
Nazis to the bone.
pm_me_your_pay_slips@reddit
They are supposedly allowed to use tank shells as “suppressive fire” aimed at”near” civilians. And I suppose theylll come out saying it was an accident.
AutoModerator@reddit
The link you have provided contains keywords for topics associated with an active conflict, and has automatically been flaired accordingly. If the flair was not updated, the link submitter MUST do so. Due to submissions regarding active conflicts generating more contrasting discussion, comments will only be available to users who have set a subreddit user flair, and must strictly comply with subreddit rules. Posters who change the assigned post flair without permission will be temporarily banned. Commenters who violate Reddiquette and civility rules will be summarily banned.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.