I have discovered a .356 Winchester lever action rifle in my basement with 100 rounds. Do I shoot em?
Posted by funkmon@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 92 comments
This was my dad's - he got it in 2000. I'm not a big hunter - only done it a few times. Should I just keep em and whip out the lever action rifle for next time I go? Should I sell these things? Keep em for if TSHTF? How safe is the ammo after lying in the basement (in a dryish closet) for 20 years?
SeriousGoofball@reddit
I would NOT rebarrel this gun. You have a nice rifle in good condition in an unusual caliber with a nice stack of ammo that appears to be in good condition. There are people out there that would love that rifle.
I would either use it or sell it. If you aren't much into guns I would sell it. If you want a rifle in a more common caliber I'd sell this one and just buy a different rifle.
Agammamon@reddit
Of course not.
You get your younger brother to shoot them;)
mr_roberto92@reddit
Just putting it out there. See if someone would be willing to trade you something more mainstream?
Unique rifle + 200 rounds of unfired match ammo. Id bet that some dude who "has always wanted to own one of these" would swap you something absolutely mint for this.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
A local gun shop will trade me for a new AK.
Finding the dude is hard.
Midnight_Rider98@reddit
Primers aren't corroded, if the rest of the case isn't then it should be good to go. But this ammo isn't easy to find at all. You may want to consider selling it or rebarreling the rifle to a more common caliber (30-30) if you'd decide to keep it.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
I'm also very casual with guns. I assume there's no other ammo I can use with this barrel. I expect I am stuck using a different barrel due to the rimfire mechanism.
Is this something I need a gunsmith to bore out or do you think I can just buy a replacement barrel and use it as is?
Mymemesarewell@reddit
It’s a center fire caliber and you would most likely have to have a gunsmith put a new barrel on it in order to shoot another caliber.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
Oh yeah sorry I misspoke. I meant the rim mechanism. Like whatever it is that means it needs a rim. Presumably something with the lever action.
If the bullet is just a .358 with a rim, which I'm lead to believe, can I use those?
I will call a gunsmith tomorrow if they're open.
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
Honestly, DO NOT re- barrel this gun to 30-30. Here’s why:
Your rifle is not a regular model 94. It’s the big bore angle eject version
.356 is a much more powerful cartridge than 30-30 so it has a beefed up barrel/reciever/bolt to handle the higher pressure. (52,000 psi for .356 vs 38,000 for 30-30)
Either get into reloading or look at having the chamber converted by a gunsmith to a different cartridge with the same bore diameter (.358 in this case)
You may be able to get the gun to run .358 win. its rimless but .356 and .358 are basically identical and headspace off the shoulder not the rim. Likely need a new extractor installed by a gunsmith with lever action experience
You’ll have to watch the bullets though, no pointed .358s in the tube mag.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
I'd rather have the gun working than have the unique caliber.
Unfortunately you bring up a good point. It's next to impossible to get .358 in a flat top or with a rubber tipped bullet. In fact, I don't even think I can reload that with readily available rubber tipped bullets.
DDayDawg1@reddit
I reload this caliber for my grandpa once a year, he asks me to do a batch of 100 rounds typically recycled brass or gunshot brass. He has the bullets so I just supply the primers and powder, it’s a bitch and a half to reload, it’s very unique. If you wanted to go through a box I can fill the brass for a bit of $ (mainly cost of shipping and materials, it wouldn’t be much work to do yours when I do his.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
Omg no way where do you get the bullets?
optimistic_analyst@reddit
I would reach out to Winchester directly and have that image available as well as reaching out to academy sports.
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
Do you want to get in to reloading? That’s the easiest way to shoot .356 win. You have lots of brass.
emmettc666@reddit
Telling someone to just get into reloading when they aren’t really a shooter literally makes no sense. Maybe you should buy the rifle off the op to make your rechambering and reloading fantasy a reality.
No-Wrangler3702@reddit
Op isn't going to be able to do this.
If the 1894 big bore could have handled the 358 winchester's lack of rim they would have never invented the 356 winchester.
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
That was a manufacturing choice so there would be fewer changes needed from the base m94 design. 30-30, .307 Win, and .356 win all use the same .506 rim diameter.
There is nothing special about rims that makes them essential for lever action rifles. The Marlin 336 has long been a success in both .30-30 and .35 Remington.
Midnight_Rider98@reddit
What you're describing is a perfect way for op to spend a bunch of money and have the rifle spend another 20 years or longer in a dusty closet,
You can get 30-30 AE barrels and the action runs them without problems, simply buy the rounds off the shelf and regularly shoot it, it's a more sensible plan to get this guy shooting it on the regular.
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
Not true, a gunsmith can also recharger to another cartridge that uses .358 diameter bullets
sirbassist83@reddit
This gun would have immense sentimental value to me if I inherited it, and 200 rounds is a lifetime supply if you only hunt occasionally with it. Even if you're not attached, these are fairly rare guns and have more value as a collectible than it would have if you rebarreled it, although if you want to sell it, it might take time to find a buyer. If it were me I would absolutely keep it as-is
DumbNTough@reddit
Way more trouble and expense than it's worth.
Keep this the way it is and buy a new rifle in a more mainstream caliber for general use.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
Well I'm not buying a new one. So you suggest to just let it sit and use it until I run out of bullets?
JimMarch@reddit
You can keep the brass when shooting and buy reloading gear to stuff new bullets, powder and primer into the shells you have. They should be able to do 5+ reloadings per shell. Cost for the reloading gear would be less than $200 if done on a budget.
SteveHamlin1@reddit
Unless that particular rifle has sentimental.value: Sell it, with the ammo, to someone who really wants that chambering and/or is a reloader already, and use that money to buy a gun that you'll shoot more because that ammo is easily availlable to you.
BeerJedi-1269@reddit
No there absolutely no other ammo you can use in that rifle.
Youre casual with guns... dont go thinking what the other guy is saying about re barrel etc is something you can do. ONLY a properly trained gunsmith can safely do these things.
You have an uncommon caliber, thats all. The ammo you have there is fine to shoot. ONLY use the ammo that the rifle is chambered for.
Idk what you mean about rim? The edge on the ammo casing? Yes thats for the action of the rifle to "grip" to load/unload.
Midnight_Rider98@reddit
Don't bore, you can get a 30-30 (for example) factory winchester 94AE (AE part is important for your rifle) barrel from midwestern gun works for like 275 - 300. Add in some more expense for a reasonable decent gunsmith, it'll be good as new and there winchester 94's are pretty darn good guns.
In perspective, if you think the rebarrel would be a lot, a new winchester 94 would easily go over 1500 bucks, this would be a steal in comparison
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
This!
originalcactoman@reddit
200 rounds is enough to sight in and hunt with for years. Might as well use it in honor of Dad
Observed-observer@reddit
One of those boating accidents tempted into your basement. They look good to me.
jaybird_888@reddit
Winchester does the occasional run of .356win and .307win ammunition, once approximately every 4 years. It is hard to find, but still available new. Inquire with your lgs and have them look out for some for you…
OG_Fe_Jefe@reddit
The rifle and ammo as a combo are worth more than the sum total.
.356W is a fine caliber and the model 94 is also nice. World be a great hunting combo.
I vote keep them both. 200 rounds is a long long supply for a hunting rifle used occasionally.
anothercarguy@reddit
356W is so fine, I've never seen it before ^^^^^fine ^^^^^means ^^^^^small
OG_Fe_Jefe@reddit
I suppose you've never seen the 307win, or the 1½American?
With modern powders and heavy bullets a fine subsonic hunting rifle could be had.
Kinetic_Strike@reddit
Only twenty years old? Stored in a cool, dry place? Looks fine?
Send it for sure.
My dad had some stuff pushing fifty years old when he passed, it all works fine. The forty year old CCI .22LR still works better than brand new Winchester lol.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
All right boys I was wrong. I have 200 rounds. Found another 5.
Ok-Economist-3845@reddit
How did you just “discover” a rifle in your basement, lol! And then you randomly find extra ammo, haha! Man, I wish I would just stumble upon guns and ammo
funkmon@reddit (OP)
I bought the house from my dead parents so this type of thing happens
Kinetic_Strike@reddit
Yep. When my dad passed there were guns all over the place, lol.
theyeti7979@reddit
That’s what he told his wife…
Kompost88@reddit
Sneaky!
Yockerbow@reddit
I have one of these. Mine needs the firing pin replaced, though.
Fun fact: 356 Winchester with that stock design will hurt after awhile. My 375 H&H doesn't bruise me like this thing does.
If you're looking to reload for it, there are 200 grain Round Nose bullets from Hornady or Sierra that work fine.
WonderSql@reddit
Looks like you have plenty of ammo to hunt with it for a few years and have a link to your dad.
ElmoZ71SS@reddit
This is a family heirloom at this point so keep it and you have plenty of ammo for a while. Take it hunting and enjoy it, if you have or plan to have kids pass it down to them someday.
GenX_Fart@reddit
I literally just shot 80 year old 8mm Mauser last weekend. Send it.
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
OP, you should cross-post to r/LeverGuns
No-Wrangler3702@reddit
From my many readings of Cartridges Of The World:
308 was very popular. Winchester necked it up to 35 caliber and named it 358 winchester, both were used in the at the time winchester 88.
They later put a slight rim on the two so they would work though a strengthened Winchester 1894.
These were named . 307 winchester and . 356 winchester
MArkansas-254@reddit
Take a look at them. Any obvious issues? No? If it seats… 😁
HolyShitidkwtf@reddit
Id shoot it. Looks pretty solid.
tcarlson65@reddit
I would keep this firearm as is. That is a great round. Better than a .30-30.
Rebarreling a lever action takes a bit more than spinning on a bolt action barrel.
Yes you do need to use rimmed cartridges. Also need to use flat tip, rounded, soft point, or flex tip bullets.
I would store that heirloom in a cabinet and not a case. Ensure proper humidity level. Clean and properly preserve it.
I would shoot it, use it, save the cases. Learn to reload or find someone who does.
theFartingCarp@reddit
It sounds like you have a beautiful rifle on your hands. If you fall in love with the rounds you fire now cause it does look good, Id consider rebarreling to a more common round. 30-30 i think might be closest but double check that so it feed properly with your lever
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
30-30 is close in terms of length and rim diameter, but this rifle is a model 94 XTR from the “big bore” line up built to handle the much higher pressures of .307 Win, .375 Win. and of course .356 Win.
if the main goal is having a rifle in a commercially available caliber, I’d pick .360 Buckhammer, to rebarrel to. which operates at similar power and pressure to .356 win. You might be able to even do the conversion with a gunsmith just sleeving and reaming the existing chamber.
qkdsm7@reddit
Shoot 3 and see what your shoulder thinks.... but I'd go through all 100 eventually.
Gr144@reddit
Honestly, if you don’t have much sentimental value in the rifle, I would sell it.
Mainly just because of the caliper, see if you can find a shop that lets you consign the rifle with the ammo. Or sell both gunbroker yourself if you feel up to it.
Kromulent@reddit
first, sell the ammo on the internet, not to a local gun shop. gunbroker.com is one easy place to start, or just ask over on /r/cartridgecollecting
the .356 is an interesting round
way back when, everybody hunted with either a little 30-30 lever gun or a big 30-06 rifle. then they invented the .308, which is basically a short little 30-06, and it took about a minute before people figured out that putting the .308 into a lever gun would be really cool
the only problem was the lack of a rim, so they invented the .307 winchester, which is a rimmed .308. pretty cool round
about a day later people realized that you could neck up the .308 to .35 and have the advantages of throwing slower, heavier bullets at .308 power levels. People believed (perhaps correctly) that these slugs would be less likely to be deflected by twigs ("brush-busters") and that they would kill big critters quickly and more decisively. Back in the days before we'd really perfected hollowpoints that reliably hold together, this was a perfectly valid advantage of the .35
So, the .308 got necked up and became the .358 winchester, and the rimmed 307 got necked up and became the .356 you've found yourself with
nice cartridge, but then lots of other options appeared, tastes changed, and now its virtually unknown
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
Rimless cartridges can work just fine in lever actions, e.g. .35. Remington is rimless.
You could absolutely build win model 94s that shoot .308 win.
I think the only reason gun/ammo manufacturers introduced rimmed versions of other rifle cartridges was to out of the fear of getting sued if someone put regular spitzer bullets in a lever action’s tube mag.
Kromulent@reddit
the blr is one example, and look, box magazine
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
Savage model 99 too. In fact .300 Savage was so great it partly inspired the development of 308 win.
Kromulent@reddit
yep that too
Old_Union_3208@reddit
This ammo is not unreasonably hard to find. Keep it as is. Here is a link to ammo seek: https://ammoseek.com/ammo/358-winchester
Midnight_Rider98@reddit
Wrong caliber. This is a .356 winchester, not a .358 winchester.
robertva1@reddit
Someone got ready for Y2K.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
He got it after Y2k. Around here we are only allowed to hunt with shotguns but my uncle bought land about 2 hours north where we are allowed to hunt with rifles.
It was my dad's only hunting rifle. He also had a Chinese SKS and about 3000 rounds of Soviet ammo. I only saw him use it once, because, again, we weren't allowed to hunt with rifles.
His other hunting guns were a Ruger 44 Magnum, a Mossberg 12 gauge, and a Winchester semi auto shotgun.
kcmexipacn@reddit
Keep it as is and buy more ammo... you say your casual with firearms yet have no clue what you've said. Was confused at that comment. If it was your dads why not hold onto it?
funkmon@reddit (OP)
There's no more ammo to buy
BenchmadeFan420@reddit
Never seen a .356 Win
I have a .358 Win that never gets left at home when I go hunting. Ammo used to be hella difficult to find and it kicks like my taekwondo instructor when he's angry at me.
marksman1023@reddit
This was your dad's rifle. Does it carry sentimental value to you?
If so, keep it around. I wouldn't fire that ammunition for any reason except to verify the zero on the optic or to harvest game.
American Rifleman: Saga of the .356 Winchester
Google confirms that this ammo is basically hens' teeth. It can be reproduced by handloading but your options aren't great there either.
If on the other hand, you have no sentimental attachment to the rifle, sell the whole kit and kaboodle (rifle, optic, ammo, and any accessories) on GunBroker. Some autistic nerd who is obsessed with 356 Winchester will be overjoyed to pay through the nose for it.
The proceeds will likely finance a new or new to you rifle with optic, chambered in a cartridge you can purchase at any store in the US.
GullibleRisk2837@reddit
.356?!?!? Wtf I love random ass calibers like this
EstablishmentFull797@reddit
It’s the semi-rimmed version of .358 Winchester
ArdentHillbilly@reddit
Or, you can have someone reload that brass after use.
I would destroy that rifle because it's harder to find factory bullets.
G19Jeeper@reddit
Its a collectible rifle and the 356 cal would make it more valuable.
gravity_loss@reddit
The big bore 94AEs are known to have occasional issues cycling, but are otherwise great rifles.
If it's meaningful to you hold onto it as is. Send a few rounds down range before you take it hunting to make sure the scope is still zeroed. 200 rounds will last a lifetime if you aren't trying to shoot it often, and only hunt here and there.
Save the brass and consider reloading
ExPatWharfRat@reddit
Solid troll attempt. 8/10
morepics2024hw@reddit
If you’re not going to use it for hunting, sell it. The ammo is likely fine to shoot, a potential buyer might take the ammo and gun as a package.
Sore_Wa_Himitsu_Desu@reddit
Honestly? With the ammo being discontinued by most manufacturers, I’d just have it rebarrelled as mentioned and save the ammo as a collectible.
RacerXrated@reddit
I'd shoot it and see about reloading for it.
Special-Steel@reddit
“Hard to find” is an understatement for this ammunition.
I only see one source on AmmoSeek. It is $8 per round, or $160 a box.
That ammo will pay for nearly half of the barrel swap. https://www.308ammo.com/product-p/X3561.htm
Special-Steel@reddit
200 rounds = $1600.
The ammo is worth more than the rifle.
kilroy-was-here-2543@reddit
Looks like the ammo goes for about a 100 dollars a box.
Honestly sell the ammo and get it rebarelled for something more common
Affectionate-Bag-611@reddit
How is this even a question?
Gunner4201@reddit
Get a small reloading setup and do your own ammo.
Night_Raptor_22@reddit
Just my $0.02…
If you have a good, reputable LGS (local gun shop), they may buy the ammo from you, probably at less than market value, so they can flip it on the internet.
I have sold ammo on Armslist before, but that was before they started requiring a monthly membership. I would absolutely not try and sell it on Facebook, since I’m pretty sure it violates their TOS, and may get you banned/suspended.
You can always try and find a gun show near you. Take the ammo in, and depending on the show, you could find a buyer in 5 minutes, or not at all. Sometimes there are dealers setup that specialize in niche things, such as what you have, and may be willing to give you a fair price.
You can always try and find a local paper or some other sort of print media (good luck on this one), and advertise it in there. Since it’s a kind of obscure cartridge, it might be something that attracts the type of people that are internet adverse.
You may also try Tac Swap, not as well known as Armslist, but it’s worth a shot.
Hope this helps.
Commercial-Body-2247@reddit
Yes
wtfredditacct@reddit
If the rest of the ammo looks like it's in a good a condition as the photo, it's fine... but I wouldn't shoot it. There's only one vendor on ammoseek listing it for $8/round. Might be worth selling them.
I'd also take the other commenter's advice and (using the money from selling the ammo) get it rebarreled. 30-30 is probably the best bet.
funkmon@reddit (OP)
Maybe that is what I will do. I have no idea how to sell ammo. I assume I just call around to some local gun stores and see who is buying?
Rebel_Yell27@reddit
Highly discourage selling ammo to Gun-Shops.
It’s considered ‘Parts’ or basically ‘Not-Quite-Fit-For-Sale’ at least in one Gun-Shop I’ve bought super cheap stuff from out of that aforementioned supply.
If they’ll let me buy it for dirt cheap prices then it stands to reason they gave basically nothing for it.
So you might have to look around.
StaffSergeantBarnes@reddit
Sell it on gunbroker or something similar, shops usually won’t buy ammo from people. In my experience at least.
wtfredditacct@reddit
I've never actually sold ammo either. I'd probably start by seeing if you have a shop local that sells on ammoseek. After that it'd be armslist, gunbroker (if they allow ammo?), and maybe Facebook.
karmelo11@reddit
Should be safe i think. Where i live we still use 40 yeaer old 7.62x39 in the military
wtfredditacct@reddit
7.62x39 is just getting warmed up at 40, there's still another forever in there a long as it's stored well lol
funkmon@reddit (OP)
Oh good. Mine has CCCP logos all over it
coldafsteel@reddit
BestAardvark927@reddit
Gotta shoot it