Under What Circumstances Will Precious Metals Be Useful?
Posted by susanrez@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 167 comments
I have my doubts about keeping precious metals around for a SHTF or even a Tuesday event.
If society completely collapses, food, skills and other goods will be the currency. No one is going to trade anything useful for a hunk of gold.
In a Tuesday event, money will still be useful because the government still exists to back our currency.
Gold and other precious metals are problematic in a couple of other ways.
First how do you agree on the value of the gold? Was it the last reported value? How to we know if the market value has fallen?
Secondly how do you make change? Seriously. Let’s say you want to buy 10lbs of flour and a bottle of whiskey from me and we somehow agree on .25oz gold as payment.
All you have is a full 1oz bar. How are you going to get .25oz off that bar? Where are we going to find a scale to weigh the piece of gold? I’m certainly not going to trust any scale you bring along and all my scales are digital. The batteries are dead or repurposed.
Every time I try to imagine a scenario where gold is useful, I end up running into problems that make it useless.
So I’m wondering how do you envision gold being useful as a prep?
TheSlipperySnausage@reddit
They won’t
TrainXing@reddit
You know scales exist that don't require electricity? There was a time when every school science lab had scales and a set of weights. You can also buy silver in gram increments, divided into tiny bars or pie slices.
I think also that you are missing a really important point in these situations, whatever the world value is on an ounce of gold isn't really relevant bc it is going to be if you want X, they want all yout r gold or two oz coins, no one is giving change out, it is is do you want a dozen eggs? Ok, give me that whole oz of silver or you starve. If they know you have 5 oz, they want 5 oz. You will only get smaller pieces at a more formalized exchange. PMs are useful for anyone who thinks they are valuable and can exchange them for what they need. There is is always going to be some sort of bank. If we can figure out banking from 2,000 yrs ago, pretty sure we can figure it out now.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
But I have things more valuable than gold. I know how to run a still and all the equipment. I will have liquor. I will have beer and wine too. I will trade those for the things I need. Gold is not something I foresee being useful to me.
In an emergency gold is a placeholder for goods and services needed to survive. I’d rather just have the goods and services and skip the placeholder part.
PMs are just an added step in the process. I see no reason to prep for an extra step in survival.
TrainXing@reddit
You assume yoi will have those resources and space tp make liquor.
I am not saying gold is the end all be all, I do think it wil have its place and uses though.
SgtPrepper@reddit
Physical PMs are a sort of an "End of the World as We Know It" form of stored value. If there's some huge financial correction, where your country's currency becomes worthless, you'll be able to exchange it for real cash or use it for trade.
A gold ETF can be used more flexibly. You can hold onto it, sell it and buy other securities, etc. For instance over the last month it's been skyrocketing in value as tariffs have been destabilizing the US economy and the dollar.
WrenchMonkey47@reddit
Precious metals are not for the immediate crash; they are for if/when some type of society begins to form. There has to be commerce, and a standard form of payment/monetary unit. Gold and silver have always filled that role for thousands of years.
I tend towards silver, as it is ultimately spendable. In a post-hurricane situation where electricity has not been restored, 1 ounce silver bars can be exchanged for goods like a tank of gas, or groceries, as silver is a known qood with a set value. It has been appreciating since I began buying it at around $15/ounce. It's now up around $50/ounce.
gilbert2gilbert@reddit
If you have to flee a country to a country that is still stable
susanrez@reddit (OP)
I have offshore assets held in a neutral country for that scenario. I don’t need to make myself a target by trying to drag assets out of a collapsing country. I’ve already placed assets out of the reach of this government.
InnerTrust94@reddit
any advice on how to do that? not sure where to start. I assume this would be like a bank account but not sure what else.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
Start with buying a gold etf. There are gold ETFs where you a literally buying into a pile of gold bullion stacked up in a Swiss bank vault. You get the serial numbers to gold you own. You can buy partial shares on most stock trading platforms these days. Thats a good start.
Azmasaur@reddit
It can be extremely difficult to cross a border with gold. Many have learned this lesson the hard way.
Gold ETFs can be seized on a whim. If you don’t hold it, it’s not yours. If you do hold it, it can be stolen.
Unfair-Sleep-3086@reddit
Just put a few Oz in a cavity, you may walk funny but at least you can get out with it
Federal_Refrigerator@reddit
You have what?!
HOLY CRAP ITS SUSAN BOURNE
Competitive-Net1454@reddit
Please elaborate. I’m going to sell my business soon and need to make some wise decisions.
johnathanweeds@reddit
Jason Bourne? Is that you?
Eredani@reddit
Good luck with that. From a US-centric view, any thing that takes out the US is going to create a really bad day for everyone else.
plsobeytrafficlights@reddit
true, but the collapse of the US is looking more and more likely, which is why so many are making new arrangements, either euro-self-sufficiency, or solo, like china. And if you look at places that did peter out or outright collapse, Zimbabwe, venuzuela, lebanon, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan,
a bar of gold can still find value..just probably not useful for everyday barter, which is what you really need.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
You don’t need to be Jason Borne to do it. You can start from the comfort of your own home. It’s not hard to do and it doesn’t take a lot of money. Look at foreign stock exchanges. Look at buying gold ETFs. Look at buying REITs in other countries. All of these can be started with small investments. Some of these you can do with your own 401k.
SithLordRising@reddit
If it's a minted coin only under $10k minted face value otherwise duties
Militoe@reddit
So we currently have people literally recording themselves fleeing an economically unstable country via boat: reddit.com/r/Egypt/comments/1nsoily/محزن_ان_كلهم_مبسوطين/
Assuming I'm in such a scenario, how am I supposed to hide my gold and avoid being ganged up on or robbed during the journey, as well as the possibility of being caught by guards and stripped completely naked? Should I just sew it into my coat and hope for the best?
DeafHeretic@reddit
The problem with that scenario is that a lot of countries have rules/regs/laws/restrictions on the import/export of PMs, especially gold.
Those restrictions would become even more strict if a country if in the midst of a collapse. If the situation is such that the country can no longer enforce those restrictions, then it is unlikely that you will be able to leave anyway, unless it is by land travel.
Anarchaeologist@reddit
Gold is portable, concealable, concentrated, physical wealth.
All those things that makes it potentially useful also makes it a target for those who want to take those things in a lawless scenario. There has to be some form of a social contract in place to make exchanging it for anything else a tenable idea.
In a true SHTF scenario, you would conceal it and wait for the reestablishment of the social contract, or take it with you some place that has a functioning one.
Eredani@reddit
Regarding portability, last time we moved my wife flew down and hand carried our gold and silver on the plane. 600 ounces of silver was worth about $18,000 at the time and was almost 40 pounds. 10 gold coins was worth about the same and less than a pound. Perhaps something to keep in mind.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
What worries me is the amount of people who have had their life savings and money for vehicle purchases taken by them by the local law enforcement via traffic stops. Tennessee, Oklahoma, and California are known for these tactics. You are driving through the state, get pulled over, they ask to search the vehicle and size your assets. Unconstitutional as hell.
plsobeytrafficlights@reddit
oh that goes in every state. you are never safe.
Eredani@reddit
Civil forfeiture is completely legal but grossly unethical. It needs to be abolished.
arkH3@reddit
Concealable to the degree that you don't travel via airports with functional metal detectors and guards instructed to assume people will be smuggling out wealth?
Anarchaeologist@reddit
Well yeah, nothing is perfectly concealable. You have to use your judgement and try your best to avoid situations where someone will spend the time to properly search you and your belongings. If it comes down to it, would you rather have your life or a few ounces of metal that make you a target?
arkH3@reddit
Agreed.
For the record: Carry-on luggage scans do pick up jewellery, so I assume they'd pickup any coins and stuff too.
Anarchaeologist@reddit
I did get pulled out of line a few years ago. TSA guy said I had too many quarters in a pocket of my carry-on, and the scanner couldn't see through them. He'd have to hand search the bag.
He asked me if there was anything dangerous I wanted to tell him about. I replied (truthfully) that I was diabetic, and there were some lancets for blood sugar testing in the same pocket- but they should all be capped. He jerked his hand out, gave me the bag back and waved me through.
Not something I'd count on to get contraband through, but it might be a good way to conceal 90% silver quarters or other smaller valuable coins. You might also be able to smuggle some smaller gold coins through in a big mass of pennies.
arkH3@reddit
If you carry several pieces of jewellery in your carry on: within Western EU: nobody bats an eyelid. Outside EU, in past 3-4 years (my limited experience): the buggage always gets flagged for inspection, and then 50/50: Either you get asked if it is jewellery, you say yes, and it ends there. OR you get asked to take out every item from its container and show them. This may happen in front of everyone present. This is a law and order scenario. Outside law and order I am pretty confident the jewellery's journey would end there.
Also, hand-held scanners flag underwire in bras (and in some places you then get touched to confirm this is what it is). No way anything in your hem would not get flagged.
TrainXing@reddit
Are we still flying on planes with a functioning SHTF situation? 😂
This is like WWII and prior smuggling when you escaped with your life and a few bits of your past life and wealth to get settled and buy passage to where you need to go. I can see bartering with guards or coyotes to get across borders, and then you cash in what you have left for room and board while you get on your feet.
arkH3@reddit
Again, depends on what scenario you're thinking. People mentioned here taking gold with you to a country that hasn't experienced societal collapse. So that for me is not the ultimate scenario. Clearly, if you want to take any valuables with you on a plane, it would have to be very early on, essentially a preemptive measure, when law and order still are in place.
In a more dramatic / later srage scenario, I don't think there would be either law and order or regular flights. So I guess people meant taking valuables on their person across a border on foot / in a car / on a boat. Again, availability of the latter two options highly dependent on what scenario you have in mind.
All of which is to say, I think OP is right in questionning practical aspects of gold.
TrainXing@reddit
Gold is likely more practical if you can get it, bc if there is a collapse, paper money isn't going to be worth the ink it is printed on. Gold is most compact for the most value, and if gold isn't being mined bc of a collapse, it is going to be even more scare. Outside a living in a forest just scraping by, it is likely to retain value.
arkH3@reddit
Have you read the discussion here?
Nobody was advocating for paper money.
TrainXing@reddit
Nor did I saw they did....
DeafHeretic@reddit
Yup - I flew domestic last year and I had a filter mask in my back pocket that I forgot was there. It had one of those very small thin strips of metal for the nose piece. Both the gate metal detector and the wand saw it.
arkH3@reddit
Well... now that you say that... I once had a bobby pin that I no longer needed in my hair and not having a purse on me I just put it from the inside on a lapel on a blazer - and forgot it was even there. That got flagged in the walkthrough scan at one international airport, which is how I got reminded it was there, and got rid of it.
TrainXing@reddit
I highly doubt the average TSA person would know they were looking at silver quarters vs pocket change, but at $10/ quarter or less, they aren't going to get you far especially if they are junk metal.
Awkward_Potential_@reddit
This is the part that so many people miss. No one is saying that you'll be trading your gold on day 20 of the collapse. But within 6 months there could easily be some semblance of calmness. And economies will sprout, even small ones. I own gold, silver and Bitcoin for longer term preps.
moon_lizard1975@reddit
I think copper would make a good trade metal for 🥚 eggs etc given you find someone who can melt and form electric wire with it,etc or they know someone who can melt copper and accept blocks of copper (there are blocks sold on Amazon
Secret_Enthusiasm_21@reddit
this sub is a 50-50 mix of people who like to entertain fantasy hollywood scenarios (which is totally fine), and actual, serious preparations for realistically possible events.
So in your scenario, the entire world collapses. No governments, no authority, no currency. Everyone who knows anything about electronics is dead. All our technology magically disappears. Nobody is trying to rebuild anything.
But apparently, you are still envisioning a lively barter system of goods and services.
If you go into more detail how your world is supposed to look like, you will probably get more satisfying comments to your post.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
If the internet is still alive I have access to all my electronic assets so I won’t need gold.
If everything is collapsed and I need to barter, I won’t be accepting precious metals or offering them. I will only barter in consumables and skills.
I don’t see where the gold would fit in. There is no area where gold is useful but cash is not.
AdventurousRun7636@reddit
Cant eat it. I personally would not trade food, bullets or whiskey for it in a collapse situation.
ScottyDont1134@reddit
Also this. Gold or silver will be 100% useless.
Food, Ammo, medicine, alcohol and tobacco will be barter items, "precious" metals no linger will be.
AdventurousRun7636@reddit
Unless we are fighting werewolves
idk_lol_kek@reddit
If the internet is still alive I have access to all my electronic assets so I won’t need gold.
How exactly do "electronic assets" help you in a SHTF scenario?
There is no area where gold is useful but cash is not.
Weimar Republic, 1922-1923
susanrez@reddit (OP)
Only the Weimar money was useless. I still could have bought things with a British pound or an American dollar in the Weimar. Cash was still useful just not Weimar cash.
No_Character_5315@reddit
Inflation if you have 5 k sitting in a bank a year or two ago vs having 5k in gold. The 5k in the bank can buy less goods today than it did a year ago. The 5k in gold would be worth about 7500 if you inc buy and sell fee at a broker so you've outpaced inflation.
AdventurousRun7636@reddit
Its specie converted to fiat. What exactly are you going to “buy” in a shtf scenario where money is useless?
No_Character_5315@reddit
A total shtf scenario has very low chance of happening suddenly it would be more of a escalation degrading standard of living. If your one preparing for a space invasion of some kind complete nuclear war then yes your are right it wouldn't be of much value.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Weird all the down votes yet not a single rebuttal.
johnhd@reddit
Look further back than January 2024. We had a peak of roughly 5-10% inflation in 2022-2024, and gold stayed right around $2k the entire time.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Gold’s average annual return has been 10.9% over the last 25 years.
johnhd@reddit
That was due to two run ups during recessions, though. If you bought gold in 2012, you would have been down on your investment until 2020.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
I don’t consider gold an investment, but a store of wealth. In general, gold has always been considered a long term hold.
johnhd@reddit
That’s valid, but the whole reason we’re going back and forth is because you said you didn’t know why that other commenter was being downvoted. It was because they were saying gold beats inflation and using the 60% increase over the past year as an example.
It’s absolutely a good store of wealth in the long term, but it doesn’t always beat inflation and definitely doesn’t jump 60% every year.
formyburn101010@reddit
Yup. It's outpaced the S&P over the last 20-25 years (yes, including the recent run up). Also, look at the purchasing power of the dollar since 1913. Gold isn't a short term trade. It is a long term store of value against corrupt governments and debased currencies. Sure, in OPs scenario precious metals will be close to useless. But that doesn't mean it will stay that way forever. Gold and silver will lay dormant until they are needed once again for the division of labor.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Most on here use debit or credit cards and have no idea what you’re talking about, hence the down votes.
IlliniWarrior1@reddit
I find the ignorance here interesting as hell >>> some have ABSOLUTELY no idea how bartering works - much less the precious metals market - yet they are here bashing the hell out of the centuries old tried & true basics of economics .....
if you can't figure out how a Mercury dime buys a couple of chickens >> God help your sorry azz in a serious SHTF
ElectionReal@reddit
I find the myopia here interesting as well. I'm completely aware of exactly how barter works AND I know how the precious metals markets work. From mining contracts and futures to jewelry, bullion and secondary refiners. OP is right here. In order for PMs to have value there has to be a market for them, even to barter. In a situation where there's no banks, (therefore no industrial need for PMs) they immediately start to lose value in the macro market and therefore the micro market as well. SHTF to me means the community you're in is the community you'll stay. If there's little gold or silver within that community, it means that few people will be able to assay/ verify, or develop a value for shiny rocks over necessities. This is the reason I've divested from physical holdings and invested in homesteading and the only REAL precious metal, Pb. If you have that, shiny rocks are nothing. But I did keep my mercury dimes, lol.
AdventurousRun7636@reddit
Im only a fucking economist. If people want a lesson on fiat vs specie, I can give it.
possum-pie-1@reddit
In a situation with no govt., no electricity, no law, and people starving/freezing, I for one would not take a small shiny piece of metal in trade. I couldn't eat it, nor would any other starving person give me a "trade" with it. Perhaps in a decade...
People arguing "thousands of years of barter" are not taking into account that the 21st century American doesn't grow food, have a fireplace, etc. What use is a Maple Leaf or Barber quarter if you are starving? I stockpile canned food, a manual well pump, and lots of ammo for hunting/bartering. Oh, and lots of knowledge of how to get by without a laptop or phone.
AdventurousRun7636@reddit
Its stupid imo to take a metal over food.
possum-pie-1@reddit
If we are in a recession, and there is still something called "Starbucks Coffee" then gold would be good. If we are starving, and freezing, a Krugerand is worthless....
Longjumping-Army-172@reddit
So...in the real world...
Look at Hurricane Katrina...thousands of people evacuated to other states with nothing more than they could carry. I know for a fact that some people were stuck for months at a National Guard Camp in West Virginia (I knew several of the aid workers there) as well as other places that were designated as FEMA camps. Some of those people were never able to return home and had to rebuild from scratch. Cashing in two or three ounces of gold could get your family set up for a couple of months, and give you a head start in rebuilding.
Or you could just stay at the camp...
In the imaginary scenario in which society has collapsed and we barter for everything...you may not want to trade your can of beans for gold, but I'll happily sell somebody a fish that I caught, some of that deer meat that I harvested, some of those extra veggies I grew or some of those edible mushrooms I harvested for gold. Why? Because I have the skill to get more when I need it.
The same can be said of literally any other useful skill. People with the skills to do things that people need will be quickly stocked on things like beans, rice and ammo. Then what? Is that mechanic or carpenter supposed to just take an IOU from a stranger?
How would you decide how much gold something is worth? In literally the same way you'd decide how many cans of beans, .308 rounds or bags of rice that thing is worth... you'd haggle until you come to an agreement or walk away. No "exchange rate" needed.
How would you make change? You can buy and stock precious metals in fractional bits. You can also cut it with a jeweler's saw (look up the origin of "two-bit". You could use a multiple metal arrangement, i.e. "I'll take one gold, three silver and six copper"... literally the way it's always been done.
Even though weight is the current conventional way to measure metals, it's perfectly possible (and far from unprecedented) to just agree to eyeball a chunk. If you must weigh it, it's pretty easy to fashion a balance scale out of available items.
So, now what if there's no hurricane and society keeps marching on as it has for centuries? What if the crisis you face is far more personal...like a medical problem or a vehicle breakdown? Or...what if you grow old and retire...or die unexpectedly. All of these things are far more likely to come in your lifetime than societal collapse or some level of refugee status.
The last I checked, doctors and mechanics don't accept payment in beans, rice or ammo. In fact (except possibly the ammo), those things are only going to decrease in value with age.
Precious metals, on the other hand, may be volatile at times, but they've only been trending up on the long term.
cofeeholik75@reddit
In my scenario, I can go back in time. I choose London in 1850.
What should I convert my current 401K to, that I can carry with me to 1850?
(This actually keeps me up at nights)
surfaholic15@reddit
I have purchased things with both silver and gold before. And i have been paid in silver.
Just this past june was an instance. My younger son had his reception venue in our city cancel on him, 6 weeks out, and they took their sweet time with a refund. He and his wife were having the reception here as they had married overseas. Her family was coming from canada....
And we are fixed low income seniors. But i had my silver.
I called around, and got an excellent venue that i paid for with a mix of vintage rounds and sovereign coinage-- ASEs, maple leafs, some roos. Got a discount because i was paying in silver, in fact.
My DCA on those ounces was 14.00 and change. At the time of the tranaction they were worth 23 and change. They are now worth 50.
And the event was a great success, at least the parts i managed lol.
My son paid me back in fiat, that i immediately used to get silver.
Several summers ago, a 1 ounce round was getting me 6 dozen farm fresh eggs from a local 4H family, whose kids collect coins and rounds.
I have had private landlords who accepted rent in silver and gold. I know foljswho have bought everything from boats to motorcycles with metals. And have bought land.
Silver and gold are perfectly valid currency. As to how you determine value at the moment, spot price.
Beyond that, silver and gold are not for SHTF or TEOTWAWKI, they are for after. Historically, every rebuilding civilization has returned to sound money.
As a side note, when i was a kid i met a few boat people post vietnam. The ones that got ahead fast showed up in Boston with gold, typically baht chain. As soon asthey cleared processing, they came east. Bought property. Busted tail. But yheyhad a huge advantage.
The ones that ended up having a hard time showed up in America with suitcases of vietnamese money.
The lesson there is the same lesson we see today in zimbabwe, in venezuela, during the weimar republic, post civil war here in America... folks put inordinate faith in pieces of paper. They are great accounting tools. But in the aftermath they are about as useful as teats on a bull.
PrepperBoi@reddit
I could sell a 1oz round for $50 now and buy 15 dozen eggs at Sam’s club for that. Silver to egg ratio is high now lol
surfaholic15@reddit
Yeah it is lol. If this keeps up when summer hits and everyone's hens are laying, I'll probably be getting a case of eggs for a quarter or something equally insane lol.
And with gold where it is, an Angus fat unit is a half ounce of gold plus about 4 ounces of silver. A friend of ours reserved a unit for pickup late next spring, insemination included when the cow goes back into season. He is a happy camper.
We're likely going to prepay a quarter in the next month or so, going in on it with two buddies and we are gonna save a pretty penny by doing the processing. Processing prices are rising again where i am, and most of tge best processors are booked way way out and desperate for help.
PrepperBoi@reddit
Beef here from a local farmer is too expensive everywhere I’ve looked. I just buy it at Sam’s.
surfaholic15@reddit
We generally buy beef at winco since it is regional beef, and cheaper than costco. But anymore, we can buy in on a steer cheaper with planning, especially since weget a much widervariety id meat.
If i am buying at winco it is nothing but 73/27 burger meat in bulk, lowest price lately was 3.50 a pound on sale. A large fresh brisket last time it went on sale was dang near 5.00 a pound.
But since our buddy is building up his herd, we are taking the opportunity to buy in on the steer. He is basically looking to cover the cost of his new cow, not going for profit. And since i am rather handy at process time since we have 2 pressure canners and i am good at tanning hides, we will get a break lol.
I am hoping our hunting friends have a good season this year, putting my canners to use on game usually results in a lot of tasty elk and venison plus a hide or two in exchange for processing help.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
This assumes you can’t/dont have offshore assets.
I do have assets kept in a neutral country. I plan to access those assets if I ever need to flee my home country.
In the world today, it’s very easy to distribute assets across the globe without ever leaving home. You can hold stocks in international exchanges. You can buy gold and have it stored in a bank vault in the country of your choosing. You can buy real estate in other countries without ever leaving home. Yes you have to do your due diligence and make sure it’s always a legit transaction and not a scam but it’s not that difficult.
I think it’s much more difficult to drag around hundreds of kilos of gold.
surfaholic15@reddit
Yeah you can. And while quite a few folks do, i would say they are still out of the ordinary as a percentage of people. The majority of people seem to think such things are loopholes or perks reserved for "the rich".
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
In those cases, you’d use fractional silver for small purchases, just as we did a half century ago. Personally, what I have accumulated was never geared towards a shtf event, but to carry wealth into a new economy.
V2BM@reddit
Who is walking around with an XRF analyzer? Someone coming to buy some beans or coffee off me?
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
I’ve never needed one tbh. Simple ping test and rare earth magnet works fine. Have never even held a counterfeit constitutional in 40 years of collecting.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
Honestly I can’t see a circumstance where I would take silver or gold. If money is no longer useful, there’s no way to determine the value of a precious metal. I’d trade in ammunition, alcohol, food, fuel, dry goods. All things I can use to survive. A stack of silver coins isn’t going to get me thru the winter after SHTF.
all4tez@reddit
There's also not a good way to reliably tell if the silver or gold are 100% real, without specialized equipment or cutting into it. Tungsten and other fraudulent methods are a serious problem.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
It’s been done this way in the past, that’s why I have PM’s and everything else you’ve mentioned. Determining value of metals is the same as figuring how much booze to trade for a chicken. I’d rather be well rounded in my preps and have all bases covered. You may not place importance on PM’s but there will always be others that do.
arkH3@reddit
I do think it is useful to akcnowledge the limitations to trading via coins and small amounts of precious metal. This was the norm in the past when everyone was using the same coins, and either we all assumed all coins were legit (high level of law and order), or had some at least rudimentary way to ascertain the coins were legit, and what theur vakue was, before making an exchange.
I think societal collapse scenarios would feature periods of no order (hence low trust), and circumstances were many people don't have the knowledge or means to ascertain value, especially if we are not all using the same coins / same bits of silver (because different people prepped differently).
So I think planning for some direct barter is not a bad idea, as one of the strategies.
BootsAndBeards@reddit
Precious metals are pretty and do not rust away, that’s kind of all you need for value. In a Hollywood everything collapses at once scenario, there will still be wealthy people. Even if that wealth is now counted in having 38 years of canned food, ammunition, and everything else a survivalist could care to collect. This person will probably trade you supplies for gold and other metals. They are no longer concerned with survival and can instead enjoy their luxuries.
As more people regain a level of stability, they will also come to prefer luxuries that hold universal value over whatever survival equipment you are planning to barter with. These people will always make up a share of the population, an ever increasing share even in the worst scenario. Though the world would probably not return to this level of comfort at the same time everywhere. So if one day you ever need to cross a border, get on a boat, or bribe some other bureaucrat who does not care about your cans of beans but might like your gold ring, that’s where it could save your life.
espomar@reddit
Here we go again.
The old “You can’t eat precious metals!” chestnut.
This comes from misconceptions about collapse. People often mistakenly assume collapse will be a single, catastrophic event, akin to the meteor which killed the dinosaurs in one single day. It’s not like that.
Collapse is a gradual process, step by step, where civilizational complexity gradually decreases crisis after crisis, until one day you wake up and realize they are living in the equivalent of Afghanistan. It isn’t just one thing, it’s a slide into a worse standard of living.
There were still people living in Rome after it was sacked, for hundreds of years. It was sacked again, and yet again. Still people living there through all this … two hundred years later they were living in shantytowns amongst the ruins of the Roman Empire, no longer an empire but they had local leadership, a rudimentary militia (no longer vast legions) and, of course, trade. Were gold & silver still valuable during this time? Yes; in fact during periods where confidence in the state currency collapses (even during the post-Roman collapse) these precious metals were more valuable than the devalued state coinage was.
In most parts of the world (America included), collapse is already happening right now. We are in civilizational collapse …are gold and silver valuable today?
They will be likewise valuable 5, 10, 25 years from today when we’re are farther into the descent.
ScottyDont1134@reddit
SHTF, the only metals that will matter will be brass, copper and lead
Icy_Cookie_1476@reddit
I've always wondered what happens if you walk into a coin dealer with 50 lbs of junk silver.
The whole system seems to be constructed around buying metals, not selling them.
factory-worker@reddit
Thousands of years say differently. There will come a time when people aren't starving and cows are tough to trade.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
True but in the case of a total collapse, I doubt I’ll still be alive to see that day as it is estimated to take a minimum of 50 to 100 years to go from complete barter to using placeholders( currency) for barter.
A partial collapse will skip over precious metals altogether or very quickly. And I am diversified across the globe so my assets will survive a partial collapse.
factory-worker@reddit
Total collapse and im ducked anyway.
capt-bob@reddit
Hyperinflation, you sell it then spend the money quick.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
But I don’t need to hold physical gold to do that. I have investments in gold that do the same thing without all the hassle.
capt-bob@reddit
I guess it's a balance of the manager rates going up with hyper inflation and not getting spot prices from local dealers. I don't know how you pay taxes on investments on gold either.
Azmasaur@reddit
I’ve made this point many times, if things implode downwards into mad max post-apocalypse you will want items with high barter and utility value, while if things explode upwards bitcoin will continue to outperform.
While I think gold will perform somewhat well over the next decade, the only application I can think of for it is older people who need stability in their portfolio during a period if monetary debasement and geopolitical risk.
Squirll@reddit
Pointless in a true apocalyptic collapse.
In something a little more middle ground, like say the collapse of the USD, then there's going to be a transition period where a new currency is taking its place.
Usd becones almost worthless as people rapidly rush to trade their USD for whatever currency is the new world standard for stable at pennies on the dollar.
Meanwhile gold and silver will retain value and avoid being crashed by the changes in fiat.
Thats the most useful shtf situation I see gold being good for
susanrez@reddit (OP)
Yes but I have PM investments for that. I can sell my investments for any currency I want. It’s unlikely ALL currency in the world will collapse at once. I don’t see why having a bunch of gold stacked up in the basement is a useful prep?
Squirll@reddit
Different flavor of the same strategy.
Though your investments are only good as long as theres a company to honor them and pay them out. Gold in hand is YOURS
Theres also the ideas that if the US collapses and say, splits into 50 different countries with their own currency... gold and silver is useful.
The uses are limited for sure, but it still feels safer than USD right now.
Its a time tested hold of value.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I think the best asset to hedge against SHTF is arable land that you own free and clear. You can grow crops, raise livestock, and build a home/cabin on it. You can use PM to buy land certainly, but in the middle of an actual SHTF being self sufficient would be the best asset.
WardenWolf@reddit
If you have to bribe someone, primarily. As others have said, if you need to reestablish yourself somewhere more stable, but the odds of you being allowed to bring it are low. Realistically it's to bribe someone to let you pass or transport you somewhere safer.
SignificantNorth9972@reddit
Basically none
NintenJoo@reddit
The precious metals I keep are lead and brass.
In the form of ammo.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I would also suggest gun powder and cartridge primers. When covid hit, primers went from $33.50 for 1,000 to $130 for 1,000 in just a few weeks. Powder went from $32 a lb to $100 depending on the type.
I had tens of thousands of primers on hand and a lot of powder on hand and did quite a bit of trading with friends and acquaintances for other reloading supplies. For people who wanted to pay cash I made a deal to replace what I gave them with the exact same product or an agreed upon product when supplies became available.
As a whole, the gun show/firearms vendors/stores are like loan sharks. If the SHTF ever got bad you'd be screwed so bad from most vendors.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
This makes sense to me.
Any-Key8131@reddit
Steel, copper, aluminum, and brass for me, though I do want to get back into building a small pile of silver for emergencies (having a few coins I could sell for quick cash has helped me in the past).
I hold all the metals in various forms, mostly as scrap. But there's a considerable amount of steel that could never be mistaken as such....
I do also plan to get some forge equipment so that I can start casting my own nuggets; coins; and bullion from the copper/brass/ally. Mainly for fun, but also to stockpile (yards in my area tend not to purchase these metals in bullion form for whatever reasons, so I'd have no temptation to sell for paper money)
Deadpool0600@reddit
See I'd say the same. But then you have to think that the bulk of people in the world will want the world to go back to how it was, and for them a hunk of gold is a testiment to capatalism, which they love.
Play smart, play the people your against. Keep some gold, but have goods too.
Final_Awareness1855@reddit
Democrats take power again and unleash the IRS on us as they had planned.
RoamingRivers@reddit
Good for a long term shtf event, as well as a rainy day fund if you are desperate for cash.
To get to a point where gold has value in a post shtf world, it would probably be long enough that alternative forms of currency become common. Before that; beans, bullets, and bandages would be the top currency, with gold becoming more common as a functioning system emerges from the ashes of the old world.
Good to have on hand, though precious metals should never be a sole prep.
panzertodd@reddit
I don't understand. Have any of you actually study a bit of history?
In shtf scenario gold can be used to buy a safe path. It has been done many times since ancient days. Even in genocide like the Rwanda genocide many have bought their way out by paying corrupt guards.
Then in trading, like it or not ppl will come together and form society, be it how small. And then it will need a currency to trade in. And it's in human nature to gravitate towards gold. Black market after wars have proven this time over time
susanrez@reddit (OP)
lol I am a researcher by trade. I’ve studied and verified many of the scenarios you mention. I can just as easily buy my way out with a diamond necklace or earring. I don’t have to hold a stack of gold. I can have pretty jewelry that brings me joy to wear. I’d be long gone before we got to the ‘buying my way out’ stage of collapse. I keep assets offshore. I don’t need to sew gold into my clothes. I can exit like a tourist anytime and then decide if it’s safe to come back here.
panzertodd@reddit
If that is the case even more so why do u ask such a question?
Nobody is asking a person to hold a ton of gold. Just a bit.
Also if you can run to a safe place in the first place then you don't even need to ask what to do if shtf. It really boggles me when you even say you are a researcher by trade
susanrez@reddit (OP)
When you do research as a trade and you come up against a commonly help opinion. In this case, the idea that PMs are a good prep to have on hand. But all my research shows me it’s not really that valuable to have PMs in 99% of both Tuesday and SHTF scenarios a good researcher will ask the target audience why they hold their belief.
I see from talking to you all, there is nothing of any significance that I missed in my research. My conclusion to not spend time and resources prepping PMs in my physical stockpile is correct for me.
A good researcher never just assumes they are correct until they’ve exhausted every avenue.
If you knew anything about research you wouldn’t be questions why I asked b
TheRealBingBing@reddit
It's more so for the afterwards stabilization for post-shtf imo.
Unless you're in a secure enough community where you can safely barter then you're better off just stacking commodities for yourself. In the romanticized ideal situation you would be able to exchange a silver coin with someone else for goods but odds are the people you run into may reject it or rob you...
As many people love to point out "you can't eat gold"
But when things stabilize you'd be in a better starting position than if you had a stack of cash that may or may not have lost its value. Precious metals will always have value.
If you're bugging out and on the go. Don't weigh yourself down with too much. Make caches you can recover.
DeFiClark@reddit
I’ve never seen gold used as a medium of exchange in any failed state except Venezuela and that was the case in gold producing regions even before the economic collapse.
I’ve seen beer used as the universal currency at barter markets but never gold.
As a portable store of wealth and potential hedge it has value, but I doubt a gold based economy is a likely outcome in any scenario that’s likely to occur.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
I agree. Gold is good as an inflation hedge but my still and beer making equipment is a far better prep than a pile of gold.
Reptilian_Brain_420@reddit
Do you understand how much buying power you have lost over the past few years?
Gold as a "prep for Tuesday" in terms of inflation and dollar devaluation would have been an excellent plan had you done so.
It isn't about bartering for chickens after the apocalypse (as much as so many around here fantasize about such things). It is about preparing for future hardship, whatever form that takes.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
I agree investing in gold is a good prep. And trust me I have significant investments in PMs. I just don’t have any PMs stockpiled in my house with plans to use them as barter in a collapse of any kind.
When/if I need the wealth held in my PM investments, I will contact my broker and have them sold and the money, paid out in the currency of my choice, deposited in my account.
I don’t see gold being useful as a thing to keep with my disaster preps.
13mind@reddit
Imho there are different types of possible collapses on ‘both axes’ where horizontal axe is the number of domains and the vertical axe is the depth of the collapae for each domain.
That’s why imho its better to be prepared at least a bit for multitude of scenarios. And gold-silver is something that could potentially work as concentration of value + value exchange for goods or services.
Thats why i hold several silver coins and a bit of gold, amongst others: productive land in household, tools, animals, some food storage, some real estate, etc etc.
1GrouchyCat@reddit
The question is why is a particular metal that valuable?
Gold doesn’t do anything … you can’t eat it… it just sits there…
I know humans have been doing this since the beginning of time but I’ve always thought stockpiling precious metal was odd….
susanrez@reddit (OP)
Gold just like money is used as a placeholder in the barter system. It can be useful in a larger society because all possible goods are not immediately available. Such as I trade 1 hr of physical labor with an employer. My employer can’t pay me in ham sandwiches which is what I really want to exchange my labor for. But he can give me a placeholder for ham sandwiches in the form of money. Then I can take that placeholder down to the sandwich shop and exchange it for some ham sammies.
In a SHTF scenario the placeholder isn’t as useful because all the ingredients for ham sammies aren’t available anymore. I need to trade my 1 hour of labor directly to the farmer to get some ham in return. Money is useless because there aren’t enough goods to support using a placeholder. We will need to go back to direct exchanges.
Placeholders like $ or pms are useful right now because society is large enough that it can support complicated and intricate trades of goods and services.
The intersection of cash no longer being a good placeholder, but PMs still are, is too small for me to specifically prep for. In my opinion.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
You forgot jewelry, 44% of global consumption, or 2000 M tons in 2024 alone. Also tech, thanks to gold you can type out your comments on a PC or phone.
Sharp_Ad_9431@reddit
Gold is good if your plan is to leave the area/country and you need to secure passage out when just buying standard travel isn't available. Think coyote for border crossing. It will hold value better than currency in war or similar shtf. You can put it in forms that are easier to pass as personal items rather than monetary value. (In some areas women weave gold thread into clothes as a way to literally hold onto wealth because banking isn't available to them. )
Figure out what the estimated smuggling fees are and get that value in gold. To Figure that out, I will leave to your personal criminal networking skills.
(Seriously preppers, so rarely do I hear mention of having connections with those with a few dirty deeds. They will be very useful in shtf.)
I would not bother with raw materials to rebuild society type stuff. Maybe materials to rewire equipment in case of CME or EMP. It depends on the level you're prepping on. Do you have a village to work with or just your cabin and property? I would invest in good quality chemistry equipment for distilling and separation of needed raw materials for antibiotics, etc before building transistors. Disease follows even the most basic of disasters.
Pyrokitsune@reddit
Depends on the depth of collapse, but honestly trade is the only thing I see precious metals as being useful for as a currency medium. No one is stockpiling enough to be useful for production, and outside of that precious metals are just shinier rocks. Again, depending on depth of the collapse shiny rocks may not be sought after as much as a barter trade that benefits both parties immediately. You have chickens and want feed, and I have some corn and want eggs, but this third guy has a pile of gold that presents an idea of "wealth" with no immediate value. Who am I looking to barter with? Cause a shiny rock doesn't get me an omelet for breakfast tomorrow.
Now the upsides. If you have to leave it's portable. Small quantities are concealable on your person, and larger quantities can be hidden as a cache to return to later.
kkinnison@reddit
Precious metals can be used when banks collapse and you can trade with a vendor that can trade that metal for goods. problem is, they often offer horrible exchange rates because of the difficulty of trade, sometimes having to go to a black market.
some reports of people living in Haiti or other places that have gone bad found it more useful to trade Junk Jewelry. something that does have precious metals, but low grade and might normally retail for less than a few $100. easy to hide, transport, and hard to trace origins, and easy to resell to a dealer
if SHTF, i am taking the precious metals hidden in something like a money belt or clothing, and fleeing to a place i can trade it for local and more stable fiat money
pyrrhicvictorylap@reddit
As someone who has them, I don’t think there’s a scenario in which they’d be useful. Maybe on the other side of a catastrophic event, but that’s putting the cart before the horse. They’re a store of value, but I don’t see them actually being useful for barter or purchasing if shtf
hongkonghonky@reddit
I grew up in the middle east and my father travelled very frequently around the region on business.
On his keychain was 1oz gold bar as he figured that should he ever need to get to the border quickly that would be payment enough.
SwissChzMcGeez@reddit
I keep mine on a Blockchain by damn if the thing doesn't just keep getting longer and longer every time I wear it... /s
jared555@reddit
Hopefully painted so it wasn't too obvious
hongkonghonky@reddit
It looked like exactly what it was but always assumed that people would think that it was just a decorative keychain. No idea if that would have worked against him should he have needed it, luckily never had to find out :D
idk_lol_kek@reddit
The idea is that you can trade one ounce pieces of silver in exchange for food, ammo, or supplies.
Cock_ball_dickin@reddit
I think people underestimate how even in utter SHTF that things will rebuild to an extent rather quickly. IMO you’d have a sort of local geo locked economy form within weeks even after a nuclear war, and it sounds dumb but gold looks pretty and it’s rare. If I’m basically set on preps and I have the ability to produce 99% of what I need, may as well trade the surplus for something that looks nice. I know it sounds dumb but it’s also the fact that it’s historically had value.
Overall I do kinda agree, like I’d rather stock up on other barter items (ideally ones that can also double as preps) but I have some silver that I’ve made into jewellery recently (about $400 CAD worth) and my idea is that if I absolutely had to I could trade that for things, historically speaking people would often trade precious metals for transport out of war zones.
Loud_Matter359@reddit
Man you just need beans and rice maybe cigarettes not tungsten gtfo
11systems11@reddit
You don't see financial prepping as a good idea?
susanrez@reddit (OP)
I prep financially. I keep assets across the globe. I even prep in gold. But I don’t keep it in my house. I don’t foresee a world in which gold or other metal will ever be useful as direct currency for goods.
ttkciar@reddit
I foresee PM being useful in a fairly narrow contingency, where all of these things are true:
I have to flee the United States,
US currency is either useless or inaccessible to me,
Gold still has market value in the destination country, so I can use it to start a new life.
I can imagine such scenarios, but they don't seem terribly likely.
That doesn't mean they don't happen, though. My friend's Chinese parents had to do exactly that when the Communists took over China. They fled to the USA, with gold buttons on their clothes and gold coins sewn into their hems. They used that gold to start a new life here.
I'm still a bit dubious that that could happen here, though. Even if it did, I expect it should be possible to hunker down in my rural home, far from anything, avoiding attention, probably for the rest of my life. Anyone pulling a CCP in the USA would have their hands full with more pressing matters for a long, long time.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
I understand these scenarios but I think there are easier ways to prep for them than stacking gold bars in the cellar. I keep a some assets offshore. Only part of my assets are in $. Some is in € and other currencies and yes some is in gold but I don’t keep the gold on me.
Dapper-Hamster69@reddit
I agree with op.
I 'prep for tuesday' as they say, power out from storms and job loss. There, stores are up. Cash works to feed the family, no need for gold.
I also prep for long term, but to a lesser level. Last time I mentioned this, I got a bit of hate about it. But no, I dont get gold for shtf time. I will trade someone something they have for what I have. Something I can use. I cant eat or drink gold, cant make a fire or shelter with it. I would have to trade again with someone else to get something I need and they have to be *willing* to take gold.
I know there are many that love jewelry/gold/diamonds, but the worth is what you price it in your head. Its just metal or a rock.
Please dont hate me, but thats just my two cents.
repp308@reddit
Gold and other PMs are a good investment as diversification to hedge against inflation and currency devaluation.
But I would say it’s dumb in preparation for a shtf situation. Its heavy, has import/export restrictions in almost every country, is worthless on its own (only has perceived value, like diamonds) so not really useful for trade/barter once things get bad, but people go dumb for it so it could also make you a target. If your plans include fleeing to another country, I would have an offshore/overseas bank account set up with money in that country’s currency (or several currencies). If plan is to stay where you’re at, a few grand in cash is good until it becomes worthless, then skills/objects become more valuable in the long run.
Mediocre_Ad_6020@reddit
If your country collapses but there are still other more stable countries to escape to.
susanrez@reddit (OP)
I have modest offshore assets held in a neutral country if I need to flee the U.S. I wouldn’t want to travel with a large amount of cash or precious minerals if I were fleeing. I’d be the person looking like they’re headed on vacation, not at all like a person fleeing.
In the modern age it pretty easy to distribute assets across the globe without having to carry them in your person.
jared555@reddit
Might be worth just setting up banking in a couple of the likely candidates if you have significant sums of money. That way you aren't worrying about smuggling gold or doing financial transactions after it is too late.
Or safe deposit boxes in those countries if you want no financial records.
ElephantContent8835@reddit
Gold has always been valuable to people and always will be. It may take some adjustment time but it will be a useful thing to have. Lately I’m starting to think that it just doesn’t matter what one preps. I don’t think anyone is surviving what is coming for us.
hadtobethetacos@reddit
The only thing gold and silver are useful for is to hedge against inflation. The only other time it would be useful is if somehow the entire world went back to bartering with gold, silver, or copper. but thats never going to happen.
ill put it to you this way, if shit hits the fan, and you need something from me, im not accepting precious metals unless there is a centralized place that i can buy or sell with it. basically, you cant eat it.
Casiarius@reddit
A stash of gold and silver is a bit like a Gieger counter and a hazmat suit. Essential in some disasters, worthless in others.
If the disaster you're preparing for is an economic depression with hyperinflation, gold is great. I am generally more concerned about natural or man-made disasters that destroy infrastructure. In a situation like that, you might get someone who will trade you for an ounce of gold, but you're definitely not going to get what it's worth on paper. I would rather spend my money on tools and supplies with immediate life-saving uses. In the sorts of disasters I am concerned about, those will be worth more than their weight in gold. And, being more self-sufficient will still be useful in the hyperinflation scenario.
miamitime1@reddit
Copper & nickel to pay for small jobs. Paper to start the fireplace.
Critical_Bad8191@reddit
I'm seeing a lot of "flee to a stable country". I'd hope it's stable in the direction you want.
Sure, in a best case scenario, Stable could be: "sure, come on over and spend your money freely".
Or it could be: "sorry, if you're entering, hand over a certain percentage (or all) of your gold so we can maintain stability and prepare for future events.
Ijs, Them having a functioning government and all the security in the world, and not having chaos in the streets, burning buildings, roaming bandits, and a general madmax atmosphere doesn't automatically mean what you might imagine. If anything, say the US and other major powers go down - they might be a little stricter about who they let in, and what their possessions are. Concealing precious metals they deem to be owed to them could be bad for your well being
schwelvis@reddit
You can trade your ounce of gold for a bag of weed if you're lucky
EarlVanDorn@reddit
Precious metals have always had value and will retain value in almost any SHTF situation. Silver coins are difficult to counterfeit, and will be more valuable and useful than bars. To a lesser extent, Sterling flatware will be useful, as counterfeiting will also be difficult.
Precious metals will retain value even if people are starving. There will always be those with a surplus looking to exchange goods, and silver coins and Sterling flatware are easier to use than barter.
regjoe13@reddit
Vimpires and silver bullets.
Or, when you need money and sell you metals.
EffinBob@reddit
They will be useful in manufacturing. Until then, they'll be sitting useless wherever you keep them. I suppose if you can find some less than intelligent person to actually give you valuable things for it you'd be doing pretty well, but I'd take a survey ahead of time in any area you're planning to end up in beforehand to find those people. My guess is the few there are will quickly wise up or die off in any extremely unlikely long term catastrophe resulting in a societal collapse. It won't be me.
IntoTheCommonestAsh@reddit
There are only two things precious metals are good for:
Carrying over wealth through instability. Gold has maintained value through previous collapses, wars, and genocide. It's not about helping you when SHTF, but about having wealth afterward.
Making big illegal/secret transactions. If you need to flee the country, or buy something valuable, there are many examples in history of people doing so with gold.
The first is less a prep per se, but really more like an investment strategy when you expect money to lose value. The second can be accomplished with other things than precious metals, it just needs to be valuable and always in demand.
Hopeful_Ad_7719@reddit
Previous metals would have value in a situation where there either is an at-least partially functioning market (or where establishment of such a market is imminently expected) AND where the government backing the predominant currency is no longer seen as credible.
Fundamentally and for the purposes of this conversation of this conversation Gold is basically just a medium of exchange, much like the USD is now. However, gold's value as that medium is not tied to the continuation of the US Government.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
The advantage of precious metals is to preserve wealth during times of high and hyper inflation.
That’s about it.
Let’s say you put aside a $5 in cash in a mason jar to buy a loaf of bread.
One year later after a period of hyperinflation, that loaf of bread now cost $20. That $5 in cash won’t buy a loaf of bread anymore.
If you saved $5 worth of precious metals instead, because they are a commodity, they will be worth $20 after that year of hyperinflation, more or less. You can buy that loaf of bread.
Now, that’s not 100% correct. There will be losses, you probably won’t get market value, and the price might equate to a value of $18 (or maybe $22) of the inflationary dollars.
But it’s a far better proposition than saving cash.
That’s about the only real use case for it from a prepper standpoint.
InterviewLeast882@reddit
Gold gets you to the other side of a crisis.
Smergmerg432@reddit
Only if the means of using them in a factory setting remain
Hot_Annual6360@reddit
It would only be useful in scenarios of localized collapse, for example, a country sinks seriously, it would serve to bribe you and leave the country, nothing more, for the rest it is lead.
Eredani@reddit
There is no Tuesday scenario where gold or silver will be of any practical value at all. The best prep for Tuesday is just money (cash on hand, emergency fund in the bank and a few credit cards). Full stop.
For Doomsday precious metals only come into play later on, after the initial catastrophe (nuclear war, EMP, coordinated cyber attack, complete economic/societal collapse, whatever)... there won't that type of trade or economy during the initial or mid stages of these types of events. Some level of stability or civility needs to exist for ANY type of trade, barter or economy.
At that point, there is NOTHING non-consumable that represents a store of wealth besides gold and silver. Banks, ATMs, online accounts, stocks, bonds, etc will be gone, unavailable or worthless. Same thing for cryto currency. Fiat paper currency may hold a little value for a while but I really doubt it. Barter items will be massively important but they are all consumable: food, water filters, medical supplies, ammunition, fuel, etc. Even durable gear like guns, tools, boots, blankets, etc. will wear out or get used up.
And lets remember that ANY kind of trade or economy relies on a surplus of goods or services. No one is trading their last can of beans for a gold coin. There has to be some framework of trust, civility or stability.
So does an ounce of gold or silver have any intrinsic value? No. They have limited industrial value now, but essentially none after a collapse. However, they do have history. There is rarely a time in the past 5,000 years where gold and silver did not represent a store of wealth. I dont see that changing any time soon.
Freebirde777@reddit
PMs are for after things settle down and trades of larger volume or longer distance. You have a wagon full of corn more than you need. Lee, two days away, has chickens and needs feed. You don't need a wagon full of chickens, so you trade for six young roosters and some silver. One day away is Sanchez, you trade two roosters and some silver for sun dried tomatoes and chilies. On the way home is Brian, you trade two more roosters, some tomatoes and chilies, along with with a little silver, filling your wagon with potatoes. You get home with two roosters to freshen your flock, food to relieve your diet of corn, and some silver to trade to the smith for wagon repair and shoes for your horses.
RedSquirrelFtw@reddit
I'd say holding precious metals is to protect more against the fall of the banking system. This could be the entire system, or your specific bank, or even your specific account. For example here in Canada they are working on bill C8 which could see you be debanked as well as cut off from the internet if you post anything online the government doesn't like, so you would lose all your money if it's in the bank and have no way to pay bills then you get your house, car and pretty much everything you own repoed. When there was the convoy protest they also froze people's bank accounts. That's actually what made me start stacking silver. I was on the list to get my account frozen so I pulled out a bunch of cash and also bought a bunch of silver. I never did end up getting frozen though.
If you have silver and cash at least you have some usable cash for immediate needs like paying your mortgage, and silver which you could exchange for cash at a pawn shop or something. Silver also keeps up with inflation so it's also good for long term storage of money. There are better investments if the goal is simply to invest, but if you want something physical on hand, then it's good to have.
In a full blown SHTF scenario it might also come in handy as some people might accept it in exchange for goods, but I don't think everyone will, and I wouldn't use it as a plan for that. Storing things like bullets and canned food and living a self sufficient life style to begin with is better for that
Beneficial_Bus5037@reddit
Lead, you can melt it down and cast bullets.
If that's not your thing, you can always snack on lead chips? Lead has a sweet taste & was used in ancient Rome to season food or in their water pipes.
AlphaDisconnect@reddit
I have a view of paper money is paper. You can't eat it. Can't drink it. I guess you could burn it. Enough of it and you might be able to make a shelter or clothing. Gold. Can't eat it. Can't drink it. I don't see burning being a thing. Gold clothing... Weird flex but very thermally conductive and non toxic.
I would argue great wool socks, gloves, medical supplies, ways to purify water, cook, some way to make light will go way further. Having been through multiple super typhoons. Maybe gold will be fun over a gambling game. But being able to stuff your face with friends that speak Japanese and you understand like maybe twenty percent of it.
This is the real gold. Friends. Everyone wants to be a one man army it seems here. They help you. You help them. You know something. They know something you don't. Even if you can't communicate. You knod. You point. Gold.
roytwo@reddit
I maintain three levels of economic preparation.
level 1, a natural disaster or economic issue, something that closes banks, ATMs and credit card machines go dark, but there is an excellent chance of recovery. For that, I maintain a stack of cash in small and medium bills. I have a wall safe with 10 K
Level 2, something worse than Level one , a minor SHTF situation where confidence in quick recovery is slim and there is no faith in US currency at the moment. But recovery is expected. For that I stock silver ounce rounds for barter, it makes more sense to me than gold. As it may be hard buying a bucket of potatoes with a one once gold piece and hoping for change. Whereas silver may be more fungible because of its lower value and you have pricing options
Level 3 full SHTF, Government is gone as we know it, currency becomes worthless paper and gold and silver has no real value without an economy and it serves no useful purpose. For that, I stock common types of ammo. 9mm, .556. 7.62x39 and a few others. That is something that will fast become in short supply and is a useful item to barter with to get what you need and when it comes closer to the end, it will allow you to take what you need to survive.
At that point, gold and silver are useless shiny metals. And a 9 mm round can be bartered in 1's, 10's. 20's etc to reach an agreed upon price for food or supplies And a box of 9mm rounds may be worth its weight in gold at that point
AccomplishedInAge@reddit
worst case scenario I can always use my PMs like the Lone Ranger
Enigma_xplorer@reddit
So I don't think gold has a tremendous value explicitly in terms of SHFT prepping. The biggest problem I see is that the world doesn't collapse like the dollar doesn't exist but there is economic trouble that causes the dollar to rapidly devalue. The problem with this is to fight currency devaluation they typically impose currency controls explicitly to stop you from withdrawing your money from the bank. The problem with this is if you can't get money out of the bank how does your local coin shop exchange your gold for dollars? Yea you might find some places who will accept gold directly but it will be at a major discount as then they have this lump of metal they can't use to pay their bills or taxes. The logistics of trying to use gold as a currency are not great and will be very costly.
To me, gold serves as a nice way to hedge against inflation during at least fairly normal times. It's a great way to hold large quantities of wealth in a form that won't get eaten away by inflation. The one huge perk to gold is that it's also a great way to hold large amounts of wealth "off the grid" if privacy is a concern.
hellhound_wrangler@reddit
I'd imagine the same situations crypto would be useful - your local currency craters, but you managed to make it out to a more stable economy without being stripped of all assets en route.
bl00m00n09@reddit
Useful situation, if the USD or X currency hyperinflates, gold and silver tend to retain real value. It's portable wealth, the value is always recognized, can move significant value across borders discreetly, can exchange it for other stable currency.
Myspys_35@reddit
Gold and precious metals make sense when transferring larger amounts of wealth - not for your basic shopping.
Gold is also a hedge for severe economic downturn and devaluation of your currency, autocratic governments controlling your ability to withdraw cash, etc.
Finally precious metals are a much more practical and stable good - e.g. will survive being dunked in water, where your cash, flour, bullets etc. would be ruined. Its also easier and lighter to transport and hide
I only need to look at my own family to see how precious metals have been crucial, my father and grandmother escaped a dictatorship, another case of escaping to another country from an abusive marriage, family members who have experienced massive devaluations, bank closures, etc. all while needing expensive cancer treatment. These are all versions of SHTF and happen across the globe
Finally as to your point about reported values and scales - people using gold in a crisis are not getting the best value. When you are paying a people smuggler to get you out of a warzone they arent giving you the latest global market rate - you pay what you can negotiate
nighshad3@reddit
Especially in hyper inflation you want to hold stable hard assets - preferably even those which you can generate money/ work with like an excavator, tools, you name it. Gold is great for holding the value while currency is plunging.
You will always very likely not pay in gold. Therefore you switch to fiat.
tai-kaliso97@reddit
You under estimate a human's desire for shiny rocks.
Bigs3xywithglasses@reddit
Me