Also they know the majority of the world is going electric for new cars within the next 10 - 15 years.
We said this 10-15 years ago. Total BEV adoption is still decades away, we'll see hybrids be basically the standard in 10-15 though. Only way I'd change my opinion is a massive breakthrough in battery tech that cuts pricing in half while doubling range or doubling charging rate.
We said this 10-15 years ago. Total BEV adoption is still decades away, we'll see hybrids be basically the standard in 10-15 though.
only hardcore EV evangelists said this 10 - 15 years ago and that was never going to happen because the laws didnt force it until this point.
Only way I'd change my opinion is a massive breakthrough in battery tech that cuts pricing in half while doubling range or doubling charging rate.
lucky for you ALL of this is happening right now, prices have dropped massively and we are also seeing the first generation solid state batteries in use in some vehicles, charge rates have more than doubled already over the first generation EVs and we already have a standard that can deliver a lot more than cars can currently take.
once you get an EV you will realize however that none of this matters because what you and many others see as a "must change" for them has very little meaning outside of specific edge use cases.
the vast majority of people does nothing else but drive to work in the morning for 30 - 60 minutes, drive back home afterwards and maybe stop to buy food in between.
Thats the reality most people are living, and even charging once a week while shopping for food would be enough to never worry about power is left in the battery.
They were horizontally opposed/boxer eight cylinder engines, not a V8 (unless you're being a bit creative, in which case you could suggest a 911 has a V6 with a 180° V angle).
Interestingly, the original Veyron had a W18 with three banks of six cylinders, rather than the quad turbo W16 with four banks of four cylinders that ended up in the back of the Veyron and Chiron.
I wonder if this concept is some kind of development from the original Veyron engine with two cylinders lopped off the end of each bank.
They called it a W but it didn’t really look like it to me. It was still a V really but with staggered cylinders along each bank. A staggered V might be a more fitting description.
I feel like they should have worked on a flat engine instead of W’s - would be perfect for the 918 and a top end Panamera/Cayenne and really set them apart from their contemporaries while being even closer to the Porsche identity.
Porsche implied it could be used with other cylinder counts as well.
It would be really cool if they could use banks of 3 and create a W9. They have a unique and really cool simulated sound because of the harmonics involved. Stick that in a future Porsche/Lambo/Audi halo car and stand out from everyone else
I've always heard that groups of 3 cylinders are best for scavenging and balancing. This layout would lend itself to a W9 really well. I'd love to see what a W9 engine could do and what it would sound like.
If only the Rolls-Royce aero engine arm would take this patent as a challenge to revive one of their own 12-cylinder designs. Would be an amazing sounding arms race.
A number of people have missed the point of my comment, Rolls built only Vee type 12 cylinder engines for aircraft. The other arrangements weren't 12 cylinders
Sabre was also really awesome yes, though I believe they had trouble with liners and over heating.
Sleeve valves were all the rage back then.
Still genius and I'd love to see what their designers could come up with with modern materials and science.
Also modern cocaine and modafinil.
Ricardo was behind the push for sleeve valves, and it makes sense when you take a 1930s view. I've read his book, "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine" and it was absolutely fascinating
True, but to discuss British interwar aero engine development (now in the context of modern luxury motoring) without mentioning RR would be a glaring omission. That Wikipedia article we each linked to at damn-near the same time mentions the iconic V12, for instance.
Rolls need to put that V16 into production. Only two V16 Phantom concept cars had it, and Rowan Atkinson conviced them to let him use one in Johnny English Reborn.
A W12 with three cylinder banks? That's genuinely innovative packaging. I wonder which model they'd reserve that for a Cayenne or Panamera range-topper, or a spiritual successor to the 918?
Wasn't that engine originally put in the VW Phaeton and the Audi A8 before it ever saw the inside of a Bentley?
I can't imagine Bentley is really designing powertrains - they're going to take whatever is developed elsewhere in the Volkswagen Group. And now with Audi concentrating on EVs, maybe the main engine development arm in VW Group is Porsche (ignoring Bugatti Rimac).
Originally yes but Bentley was basically using the engine in everything, the Conti and Flying Spur only just dropped it as of 2024 and the Bentayga had it until 2020, and allegedly the only reason they aren't still using it is they can't pass emissions with it.
If anyone in the VAG Group wanted a W12 I can't see how Bentley wouldn't be the first to put their hand up.
badcrass@reddit
They have a bunch of weird patents on like 6 stroke engines and weird crap. I doubt they'll ever do any of this stuff.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
yea its just some random stuff that came out of their development departments.
none of them make any sense as they greatly increase complexity while providing very little benefits over the current solution.
Also they know the majority of the world is going electric for new cars within the next 10 - 15 years.
BrandonNeider@reddit
We said this 10-15 years ago. Total BEV adoption is still decades away, we'll see hybrids be basically the standard in 10-15 though. Only way I'd change my opinion is a massive breakthrough in battery tech that cuts pricing in half while doubling range or doubling charging rate.
Pixelplanet5@reddit
only hardcore EV evangelists said this 10 - 15 years ago and that was never going to happen because the laws didnt force it until this point.
lucky for you ALL of this is happening right now, prices have dropped massively and we are also seeing the first generation solid state batteries in use in some vehicles, charge rates have more than doubled already over the first generation EVs and we already have a standard that can deliver a lot more than cars can currently take.
once you get an EV you will realize however that none of this matters because what you and many others see as a "must change" for them has very little meaning outside of specific edge use cases.
the vast majority of people does nothing else but drive to work in the morning for 30 - 60 minutes, drive back home afterwards and maybe stop to buy food in between.
Thats the reality most people are living, and even charging once a week while shopping for food would be enough to never worry about power is left in the battery.
frogsRfriends@reddit
Dude stop if they hear you they won’t do it
narf007@reddit
Not gonna lie to you, Porsche. People down here are starting to murmur that you don't have the balls to do it.
psaux_grep@reddit
They did launch the six-stroke engine earlier this year. Not kidding.
https://youtu.be/aIveTlr3hv8
temporalwanderer@reddit
That's clearly a W18, not a W12. Impressive, but imagine maintenance costs... :o
myCarAccount--@reddit
So the article is wrong too?
aprtur@reddit
Seems that way - just counting the coil packs, it's 6 cylinders each bank.
myCarAccount--@reddit
Lol crazy
temporalwanderer@reddit
Yes, 3 banks of 6 = 18, if it were a w12 there would be 3 banks of 4, look at the blueprints
bp4850@reddit
Where's the extra 6 cylinders hiding?
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
3 banks of 6 cylinders
bp4850@reddit
Ah dear, I can't count 🤣
atony1400@reddit
Oh my God, the Life engine somehow returned?
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
I thought that was an H16
atony1400@reddit
Nope, that was BRM who tried that in the 60s. Different team.
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
Ah, got my old school disasterclasses mixed up.
atony1400@reddit
That should come back again too. I reckon over 60 years later we could finally make an H16 engine work now lmao.
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
I’m sure someone with two LS motors and a dream could pick up where they left off
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
You'd need two horizontally opposed engines to try and recreate an H engine. Maybe Subaru or Porsche could have a crack at it.
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
Didn’t stop BRM, theirs was literally two V8s ass-to-ass sharing a crankshaft. Granted, that’s probably part of why it sucked, but still.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
They were horizontally opposed/boxer eight cylinder engines, not a V8 (unless you're being a bit creative, in which case you could suggest a 911 has a V6 with a 180° V angle).
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a21632666/lotus-43-history-jim-clark/
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
Huh, for some reason I was remembering it the other way around.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
The BRM H16 wasn't nearly as bad as the Life W12 though - Sir Jackie Stewart even drove one to P2 at Spa in 1967.
The_Vat@reddit
The BRM H16 at least got some points and a podium, although in its defence the Life W12 one of those appearances was without oil.
goaelephant@reddit
Please make a manual CGT successor
SharkBaitDLS@reddit
Do it, cowards.
phoenix2011a@reddit
I triple you. If they don't, I will in my back garden with a volkswagen golf and pure industrious spirit.
kers2000@reddit
I dare you, I double dare you!
biciklanto@reddit
Please God, please let the new CEO want to do something ~~ridiculous~~ rad like this
boostleaking@reddit
Lord Almighty please let Porsche cook hard again.
nolongerbanned99@reddit
Vw did this in the phaeton which failed
mini4x@reddit
the phaeton W12 isn't reallty a true W engine, it's a V made with two VR6 engines.
nolongerbanned99@reddit
Good point. It’s like three 4 cyl engines. Connected
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Interestingly, the original Veyron had a W18 with three banks of six cylinders, rather than the quad turbo W16 with four banks of four cylinders that ended up in the back of the Veyron and Chiron.
I wonder if this concept is some kind of development from the original Veyron engine with two cylinders lopped off the end of each bank.
Good_Air_7192@reddit
Damn car companies and their downsizing of engines, when will it stop.
0mbreBlanc0@reddit
That original W18 engine was made up of three VR6's mated together. So technically it was 6 banks of 3 cylinders.
burtmacklin15@reddit
VR6 is a single bank (single cylinder head), and is closer to an I-6 than a V6 in shape.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
It was three banks of six cylinders in the original concept.
Image 1
Image 2
s1ravarice@reddit
They called it a W but it didn’t really look like it to me. It was still a V really but with staggered cylinders along each bank. A staggered V might be a more fitting description.
karankshah@reddit
I feel like they should have worked on a flat engine instead of W’s - would be perfect for the 918 and a top end Panamera/Cayenne and really set them apart from their contemporaries while being even closer to the Porsche identity.
AcanthaceaeNo948@reddit
A flat 12 would be gigantic tho
mini4x@reddit
Testarossa 12.
Porencephaly@reddit
Runge just unveiled a 10,000rpm 5+ liter flat 8 that fits in a 964 engine bay. 🤤
AcanthaceaeNo948@reddit
That’s a flat 8.
Porencephaly@reddit
I’m aware, it’s why I used the words “flat 8” in fact.
costafilh0@reddit
Fvck the EV! Bring the crazy W12!
THIS IS THE WAY
EmergencyRace7158@reddit
It would be really cool if they could use banks of 3 and create a W9. They have a unique and really cool simulated sound because of the harmonics involved. Stick that in a future Porsche/Lambo/Audi halo car and stand out from everyone else
ScienceMechEng_Lover@reddit
They should make an X-12 engine with two flat-6s welded together.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Interesting to see they show their insane idea in engine when the company has gotten some very bad news.
So, they would ask Rimac to do that, and Cosworth V16 would be placed as exclusive engine for Tourbillion.
Porencephaly@reddit
The patent was applied for a year ago, this isn’t Porsche trying to game the news cycle or something.
drfsrich@reddit
They did say that internal combustion was coming back to the Boxster...
_name_of_the_user_@reddit
I've always heard that groups of 3 cylinders are best for scavenging and balancing. This layout would lend itself to a W9 really well. I'd love to see what a W9 engine could do and what it would sound like.
SylverShadowWolve@reddit
This is crazy. intake coming in from the top and exhausts on either side of each bank
bp4850@reddit
What's old is new again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Lion?wprov=sfla1
dreadnought_81@reddit
If only the Rolls-Royce aero engine arm would take this patent as a challenge to revive one of their own 12-cylinder designs. Would be an amazing sounding arms race.
bp4850@reddit
Rolls only built V12s, but I take your point.
Due_Inspection_2386@reddit
Also X engines and an H engine i believe, the exe the eagles and the vulture engines.
bp4850@reddit
A number of people have missed the point of my comment, Rolls built only Vee type 12 cylinder engines for aircraft. The other arrangements weren't 12 cylinders
Due_Inspection_2386@reddit
Ohhh right sorry I see what you mean. Yeah Rolls-Royce engineers were on some serious stuff back then, the crecy was pretty cool.
But Napier did the lion and later in the trailing eges of the war built the Napier Nomad 1 and 2, very cool stuff.
bp4850@reddit
The Sabre is probably peak liquid cooled engine for me from that era that actually made it into production
Due_Inspection_2386@reddit
Sabre was also really awesome yes, though I believe they had trouble with liners and over heating.
Sleeve valves were all the rage back then. Still genius and I'd love to see what their designers could come up with with modern materials and science. Also modern cocaine and modafinil.
Harry Ricardo would have been unstopable
bp4850@reddit
Ricardo was behind the push for sleeve valves, and it makes sense when you take a 1930s view. I've read his book, "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine" and it was absolutely fascinating
Due_Inspection_2386@reddit
The horsepower race was also great, by Calum Douglas I believe. Or Horsepower wars
Due_Inspection_2386@reddit
Also if you take weight for weight and compare displacement, the sabre at the same 2240 cubic inches as the Rolls-Royce Griffon made like 500 hp more.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
They did do a 6 cylinder in the early days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Hawk
bp4850@reddit
Not debating that, but in the context of the thread about 12 cylinder engines, Rolls only built V-12s. And they were pretty damn good at it.
dreadnought_81@reddit
True, but to discuss British interwar aero engine development (now in the context of modern luxury motoring) without mentioning RR would be a glaring omission. That Wikipedia article we each linked to at damn-near the same time mentions the iconic V12, for instance.
bp4850@reddit
Rolls Royce did build parts for the Merlin and Griffon right into the 90s I believe, which is in itself something to be amazed by.
MrBattleRabbit@reddit
They built a some X-24s as well! The Vulture and the Pennine
bp4850@reddit
Well the X24 was a complete failure, and also not a 12 cylinder
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
Rolls need to put that V16 into production. Only two V16 Phantom concept cars had it, and Rowan Atkinson conviced them to let him use one in Johnny English Reborn.
grumpypantaloon@reddit
does really every other link posted to this sub have to be from fuckin carscoops that is unavailable in half of the world?
impossiblefork@reddit
I guess it would be cool to see 911s with flat W8s.
Classic-Affect-9956@reddit
A W12 with three cylinder banks? That's genuinely innovative packaging. I wonder which model they'd reserve that for a Cayenne or Panamera range-topper, or a spiritual successor to the 918?
Captain_Alaska@reddit
Would honestly make more sense that it would end up in a Bentley, which already has a history with W12s.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Wasn't that engine originally put in the VW Phaeton and the Audi A8 before it ever saw the inside of a Bentley?
I can't imagine Bentley is really designing powertrains - they're going to take whatever is developed elsewhere in the Volkswagen Group. And now with Audi concentrating on EVs, maybe the main engine development arm in VW Group is Porsche (ignoring Bugatti Rimac).
Captain_Alaska@reddit
Originally yes but Bentley was basically using the engine in everything, the Conti and Flying Spur only just dropped it as of 2024 and the Bentayga had it until 2020, and allegedly the only reason they aren't still using it is they can't pass emissions with it.
If anyone in the VAG Group wanted a W12 I can't see how Bentley wouldn't be the first to put their hand up.
bp4850@reddit
It's innovative in that it's uncommon, but it's definitely not a new idea. Napier built aero engine W12s with the same configuration in WWI
furrynoy96@reddit
Do it you motherfuckers
genzbiz@reddit
LETS GOOOO
dreadnought_81@reddit
Close enough, welcome back Napier Lion.
n00bmax@reddit
The 918 successor is looking great