Offensive Handgun Theory | Roland Special of CZs
Posted by Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit | Firearms | View on Reddit | 31 comments
Let me start off by saying that I'm not trying to piss off Glock owners with the title of this post, but I do recognize that may be the end result so let me explain a bit.
Most people are aware of the Roland Special build/concept, but if you're not I'll give you the quick & dirty. It was pioneered by Chuck Pressburg of Presscheck Training & Consulting sometime around the late 2000's. Consisting of a Glock 19 cut & equipped with a Trijicon RMR, a compensator & a weapon light typically in the form of a Surefire X300. The idea was to have a sidearm that gave the user every possible advantage in a gunfight when a rifle is not applicable for one reason or another.
At the time this concept was very forward thinking & not extremely popular amongst his peers, but in the end he was proven right. Now adays you would be hard pressed to find a professional that didn't run an optic & a light on their sidearm, but the compensator still has yet to be widely adopted. I suspect this has something to do with some fudd lore about them still floating around but I digress.
I decided to take this concept & modernize it for the current times. The original gun of the Roland Special was a Glock like previously mentioned, & hardcore fans of it will say no other platform can be used & still be called one. And that may be true to some extent, but the concept of the Roland Special was just that, a concept & not a specific build list. The idea is a reliable, repeatable platform that gives you the biggest advantage. Long as those terms are met & I stick to one or two rules, I'd say it's a fair game. Plus I wanted to show it could be done with something other than a Glock.
BREAKDOWN
- Handgun | P-10 C Slide / F Frame | CZ USA
The G19 was chosen over the G17 in the original Roland Special due to the length of the 19 with a compensator sat about flush with the end of the weapon mounted light. And at the time the G45 had not came to market otherwise I suspect Chuck may have chosen that due to the extra ammunition capacity it offers.
Regardless I chose to go with a compact slide riding on top of a full-size frame due to the extra capacity as well as the extra control the full size offers. Retaining the compact slide will help me stay true to an original aspect of the build as well as add some reliability to the final product. Which I will cover once I get to the compensator section.
- Optic | EPS Red 2 MOA | Holosun
The original optic was a rugged open emitter red dot from Trijicon called the RMR which even by today's standards is a nice piece of glass. However there have been improvements to the technology since the conception of the Roland Special.
Primarily going from an open to an enclosed emitter red dot which offers a more reliable sight picture. Rain, snow, dirt, dust, mud or general debris would all take an open emitter dot out of commission unless one had a q-tip readily available. All of those concerns are largely put to rest with an enclosed option. Consistency is the name of the game we play.
I wanted to stick with Trijicon if at all possible, but at the time of completing this build the only enclosed option they offered was the RCR. Impossible to get ahold of unless you're in the know or have a government contract. I ended up landing on the Holosun EPS due to my previous experience with the optic left me confident in its ability to reliably preform, even in less than ideal conditions.
- Optic Plate | EPS Cut Steel Plate | Athena Precision
Unless your slide is milled directly for your specific optic, you will need an adaptor plate to marry slide to the optic. As you can imagine this is a critical component that will be experiencing a ton of macro and micro vibrations. While some aluminum plates can do the trick, I prefer something made from hardened still for such a crucial part.
Athena Precision makes all theirs from hardened heat-treated steel and are such a step up from your standard 7075 aluminum models. I highly encourage anyone utilizing an adaptor plate to do so of one made from steel as its the direct connection from your optic to your weapon system.
Anyone interested can use code Rebel_Spirit_Operations for a nice discount.
- Barrel | Velocity Defense Threaded Barrel | Killer Innovations
The CZ P-10 C model I had picked up, came with just your standard non threaded barrel. And since this project requires a compensator, swapping my existing one out for a threaded version would be a necessary step.
Killer Innovations produces some amazing quality barrels that come with an 11-degree target crown & the boring, rifling & chambering are done using a process called Single Point Technology which all adds to accuracy.
- Compensator | HC10 CZ P10 | Herrington Arms
Since KKM didn't produce products for the P-10 series, I decided to go with the HC10 from Herrington Arms who are well known for producing some amazing compensators. Thanks to its design, when paired with a compact slide & full size frame, the bottom half of the compensator rides inside the frame of the handgun.
This little detail adds some redundancy to the platform in a way perhaps unintended by the manufacture. If the mounting screws connecting the comp to the barrel where to ever come loose or be lost completely, due to it setting inside the frame this will force the comp to stay in the upright correct position.
- Weapon Light | X300 Turbo | Surefire
The turbo series of lights offered by Surefire focus more on candela rather than lumens, offering a strong focused beam that can stretch out to impressive distances. I could seriously rant for days on why I believe a high candela light is a better option vs one focusing on lumens but in short, it's for defeating light barriers.
My work in private security for the past 15 years has proven to me time & time again that light barriers exist in all areas at all times of day. Lumen biased flashlights just don't have the juice needed to look past the barrier & depending on the circumstances can even lower the distance your able to see.
Having a spotlight on your weapon system is also a very effective way to blind you target momentarily which can be used to the operators' advantage in many different ways. They do run the risk of bouncing light back at the user in super close quarters however there are practices to mitigate that effect & running other lights such as helmet or vest mounted in those areas is a common practice. But in my opinion, a candela biased light provides the user with more benefits and options than the ladder.
- Thumb Rest | Grip Control Module | Black Steel
This is a completely new aspect compared to the traditional Roland Special, but absolutely falls in line with the nature or theme of the build. The same way a red dot does not give the user a new capability but simply enhances an already existing one, the same goes for the thumb rest aka gas pedal.
The added leverage point it gives the user to control muzzle rise provides a massive advantage when it comes to fast rapid shots. Some handgun frames are starting to come with small ledge built into the frame itself & can produce the same effect largely. However, a true gas pedal changes the angle at which pressure is applied downwards which in turn returns the muzzle & red dot closer to the original firing position. It also reduces the chance of the firearm slipping compared to the small built in ledge.
The Grip Control Module from Black Steel is a real solid attempt at having your cake and eating it too. It replaces the original take down lever of the platform with one that has a thumb rest attached to one side. The rest itself is spring loaded meaning its compressed against the gun when in the holster but soon as it's drawn out, the spring forces the ledge down & into position. In my opinion this is one of the biggest advances in handgun tech since the adoption of the red dot.
- Striker | NP3 OP Striker | Overwatch Precision
NP3 coated components have an amazing natural lubricity to them & as a result tend to run better especially when dirty. The Overwatch Precision striker has a slightly changed geometry & combined with the coating reduces the pull weight of the trigger by .5 lbs. but more importantly provides a more consistent trigger press.
To be honest the trigger pull weight and style is subjective & in the end doesn't make a massive difference in the overall performance of the platform.
- Striker Spring | 15% Reduced Weight Striker Spring | HB Industries
Similar to the Striker, this upgrade is a small but pleasant one. However this could arguably cause the platform to be less reliable depending on a host of factors. I have just over 5,000 rounds behind this spring with no noticeable uptick in any kind of malfunction.
- Stippling | Self Applied | Yours Truley
Stippling is partially a preference thing but at the same time its 100% a performance aspect particularly in less-than-ideal conditions when the hands or gun are wet. To achieve increased texture one can go about it in a few different ways. One of the most common forms is some form of precut textured adhesive like Talon Grips. While these do a decent job, I have found that during prolonged time in hot temperatures the entire grip adhesive portion would slide around while using the gun. Making the platform both slippery and sticky all at the same time if that makes any sense. The grip portion would slide off exposing portions of the gun with the sticky adhesive still on it.
To avoid this I went down the stippling route. I decided to try and do this process myself rather than sending it off & paying $200 for it to be done for me. Initially I wanted to try some fancy pattern to make it look real fancy like, but after doing some test runs on the case the gun came in, I decided to just keep it simple stupid. The finial results left me somewhat satisfied. The border I attempted looks like garbage, no getting around that, however the stippling is very functional & provides excellent texture for the end user.
Conclusion
The finial result left me with a platform that I believe still follows suit of the Roland Special aka the Offensive Handgun. The trigger was reduced from a 4.5 lbs to a 3.2 lbs with a very clean & repeatable break. Muzzle rise is virtually nonexistent with the comp & proper pressure applied to the thumb rest. Standard magazines put the capacity of it at 19+1 & use of the factory extension baseplates turn that into 21+1. Which is a very healthy amount.
I am keeping a watchful eye on the 15% reduced weight spring & at the first sign of light primer strikes or issues cycling it will be the first thing I swap back out. But over the past 5,000 rounds its worked flawlessly. I understand CZs are not for everyone, & even though I do shoot them very well, I have found myself wanting a fatter grip in order to achieve more contact with my support hand. Luckly every component of this build can be purchased for the Glock platform as well.
I appreciate everyones time for the read
For more builds like this check out Rebel Spirit: Firearms Training & Gear | Rebel Spirit Combative Training Applications
For video format check out https://youtube.com/@rebel_spirit_operations?si=ebACrCQfIkYlDbEU
adubs117@reddit
The lengths people go to tame the mighty, mighty recoil of 9mm still confuses me tbh. Call me a fudd all you want but a class or two and 1000x rounds are going to be more beneficial and a lot cheaper than the bells and whistles.
ad895@reddit
Not saying you are wrong about training but comps do make a significant difference.
adubs117@reddit
I mean yeah, physics is physics. I just feel you can get nearly as good results and be a better shooter for it if you practice the fundamentals. And save hundreds of dollars in the process. Simplicity has a beauty all its own. Especially in a DGU.
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
Why do people assume when you make a post about a spacific concept or just having fun with pistols like i did here today, that they dont shoort, take classes or train?
I keep a stock 19x purely for training & teaching purposes. Im by no means some wizzard at the craft but my average 9mm yearly round count is around the 19,000 marker.
Pleanty of people who do more than that, but even more so and typically the louder ones have never even shot past 50yards or shot out a barrel
adubs117@reddit
Just discussing bro. Why post anything on reddit if you aren't open to dialogue?
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
dialogue & assuming from the get go that anyone who has something like this isn't actually training or that they are trying to compensate for their lack of time on the range is a bit different in my book.
adubs117@reddit
I mean that's just been my experience. I see a lot of folks using it as a crutch.
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
I mean maybe, but idk if I would even consider it a crutch. Most individuals use a red dot optic on their pistols. Is that just a crutch since pistols come with iron sights? No, red dots offer such a massive benefit to the user it only makes since to adopt them into the platform.
Same goes for gas peddles. A pistol should by design have some sort of ledge built into the platform for the support hand to push downwards on. The difference in usability it makes is about on par with the benefits of adding a red dot.
adubs117@reddit
I'm not arguing that these things don't have a huge added benefit. Like I said physics is physics. What I'm saying is a lot of people throw a dot and a comp on a gun and then use it as a reason not to train fundamentals. See it all the time.
I think until you master irons and the fundamentals you shouldn't consider making any modifications to your gun. Posts like just just encourage "Gucci-ing" a handgun without knowing what you actually need.
ad895@reddit
I feel like the vast majority of people who say buy a stock glock and train, dont actually train lol. If you have shot a uspsa match you are already better than probably 98% of gun owners.
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
You are correct, least in my experience. That or they think everyone is shooting at 5yards like they are.
ad895@reddit
That an slow firing a pistol at 10 yards and bragging about groups.
NEp8ntballer@reddit
The Roland Special was essentially born from taking things that work in competition shooting and applying it to war. Tier one units have been doing it for decades now. The fact of the matter is that compensators and red dots are such an advantage that they bump you into a different class. Some of that is practice, but the competitive advantage between running a race gun and a stock glock is massive even in the hands of a professional.
adubs117@reddit
Would I fuck want a race gun in a warzone. 2lb trigger gonna blow your nuts off after a stiff breeze.
I think there are two distinct use cases being outlined here, and the tool you're using for each is definitely going to be different.
ad895@reddit
You are missing the point. If you can implement things that a race gun has while keeping reliability and usability, there is no reason not to.
adubs117@reddit
Yeah the Venn diagram overlap on those two things (duty vs race gun) is pretty narrow. That's exactly what I'm driving at. In my experience. Competition guns are going to have a much lighter trigger than a duty gun, customized internals, comped, bunch of nonsense on the frame / slide. All stuff that can affect your draw and reliability. Just cause it shoots flat and fast doesnt make it a good duty carry. Simplicity has beauty on its own there.
Alconium@reddit
Yeah, came here to say this. You don't need widgets sticking out of the side of your gun to shoot well. Tons of people have proven that over the years. If the handicap helps you train then sure I guess, but anyone wanting to actually get better should probably shoot a gun that isn't covered in stuff you can't/won't carry. If a comp and thumb rest actually made you significantly better they'd be on the M9 or M18.
Getting time behind the gun will absolutely mog any benefit from modding a gun. I got so much better after picking up old hammer fired double action handguns because the heavy trigger got me to focus on fundamentals. It's crazy how beneficial that was for me with all my firearms, not just handguns.
ad895@reddit
Lol just because the military does something does not make it the best thing possible. If it was they wouldn't have chosen sig for literally everything recently.
Alconium@reddit
I don't disagree, but there's some things that would likely be adopted if they objectively made the lowest common denominator substantially better. Most things beyond what comes on the average firearm at this point are personal taste or feel.
Getting to know your gun and what you want on it is worth far more than investing in widgets. Roland Specials might have some cool features but they're not what will default make them better for everyone.
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
1000? Bra, that's like what 3 training session... 1 if you go to a class.
Daledo126@reddit
Jesus Christ just practice stock
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
Assumption is the tell tell of a low IQ
Daledo126@reddit
And you're right, I noticed I get reddit angry and irrational when I'm on here drunk like last night haha damn open bar weddings. Guns actually nice man
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
lol thats hilarious and most of us have been in that boat
ArceusTwoFour_Zero@reddit
9mm guys need a gas pedal, heavy light, and muzzle brake for the mighty 9mm recoil.
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
assumption is the tell tell of a low IQ
NEp8ntballer@reddit
The Roland Special for men whose wives have boyfriends. /s
Aromatic-Plastic-209@reddit (OP)
whatever you say papi.
does sound like some personal experience coming out
No-Notice565@reddit
As a Glock owner, why would I be pissed off with what you do with any of your firearms?
Broccoli_Final@reddit
You are amongst a very small minority of Glock owners on reddit 🤣 I swear some of those puritans still curse the day MOS was even mentioned in a meeting 😂
Septimusthehoplite@reddit
My ass wanting to Roland special a P01 but CGW is taking their sweet ass time making their comp.