"There's someone living in the walls!" Is this really possible in the average American home?
Posted by GoldFreezer@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 334 comments
I've been listening to a paranormal podcast recently and often when they mention an incident that involves strange noises around a house, one of the hosts will say: "maybe there's someone living in the walls?!"
My question is: is this just a silly joke, or does the average American home have enough space inside the walls for a person to hide in? I'm from the UK and someone would have to be about two inches across at their widest point to live in the walls of any house I've ever lived in.
hella_rekt@reddit
It’s safe to assume everything you hear on a paranormal podcast is bullshit.
FewRecognition1788@reddit
Squirrels? Yes. People? No.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
In my house, the only places you could conceivably exist that aren't actual living or closet space would be the crawlspaces above and below the house. There aren't any significant voids inside the walls.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
I've only really learnt about crawlspaces from this post. Every house I've ever lived in has had an attic directly under the roof, but the rest of the space was rooms.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
Yeah, in a house that doesn't have a finished attic, you'll usually have a crawlspace. Where I live, most houses don't have an attic so you just have the crawlspace. I suppose you could hide up there but trying to do so for an extended period would be hard. Often they don't even really have a floor, if you're up there you have to walk on beams. They're primarily used to access HVAC equipment.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
This is helping to put some pieces together in my head to make sense of the difference... Nearly all houses in the UK have a space which we call an attic/loft, whether or not flooring has been put down. There are exceptions of course - there was a brief, hideous fashion for flat rooves for cheap housing - but in general houses have a space between the top floor and the roof, which is referred to as the attic/loft, no matter the size.
Perhaps what you would call a crawlspace is our unfinished attic/loft? For an example, my childhood home had a loft which was accessed by a portable ladder, an adult could only stand up straight in the middle and you had to walk on the beams and inbetween them was fluffy fibreglass insulation. At various points my dad had put a few boards and planks across the beams to support the weight of all the crap we stored up there that didn't fit downstairs. My current home has floorboards over most of the floor, one electric light, and a skylight window in the loft but it's still just a "loft" to use as a glorified storage area, there is still exposed brick and fibreglass around the perimeter and not much of a barrier between the loft and the elements.
When people get their attic/loft turned into a real, habitable room with a fully finished floor and ceiling, windows and built in stairs, it's referred to as a "loft conversion", often in jealous whispers:
"Mrs Williams at number 20 has got a loft conversion done."
"Ooh, look at her! Mrs 4 bedrooms!"
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
lol! I love hearing about all these differing ways. Yeah, sounds like you are right because you are describing my crawlspace. It's the space between the ceilings and the roof. Some homes have a pull-down ladder, but that's not common in my area. Ours just has a hinged access trapdoor and you need to use a ladder to get to it. It was the same in the house I grew up in. There are houses around here that have full finished attics, but none of the houses that were built as part of large-scale neighborhood developments do. My neighborhood was built in the 50s, and the house I grew up in was built in the early 80s, but the homes are pretty similar-mixes of one- and two-story ranch-style homes with attached garages.
I live near some Eichlers, which have flat rooflines, so I'm guessing they don't have much space between the ceiling and the roof, probably just enough for ducting and wiring and a technician to army crawl around.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Every home I've ever lived in apart from this one had a walk-on-the-beams, accessed-with-a-ladder loft. In fact, when I decided to buy this one and sent a video to the entire familiar of the interior, including the pull down ladder to access the loft, the mostly boarded floor up there and the window, the replies were along the lines of: "nearly a 4th bedroom!!" "loft conversion will be nice an cheap!" "going up in the world, GoldFreezer! 🤩"
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
I love it. You've finally arrived! Around here, nobody's crawlspace has a window.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
What would you do with the average house in your area if you needed to accommodate an unexpected child? The houses around here are mostly terraces (row houses?) so there's not much you can do but go up if you want to add rooms. Plenty of people have turned their loft into a "room" which can't legally be called a bedroom because the roof is too low. People with more money (like my neighbours) have had the roof joists raised to make 1-2 new rooms in the loft. Most of these terraced houses were built well over 100 years ago before indoor plumbing was common and were "two up, two down": a kitchen with a cooking range and maybe a water tap, and a parlour "for best" downstairs, then two bedrooms upstairs. At some point in the 50s, the two bedrooms were partitioned into 4 smaller rooms: a bathroom, parents' bedroom and 2 more bedrooms so male and female children didn't have to share. Of course now people tend to have fewer children, and give each child their own bedroom where they can. But there are always unexpected circumstances, like the family I bought my house from, who already had two children then unexpectedly had twins. They wanted a 5 bedroom house, which is why they were selling this one.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
In my area, there are a lot of single family homes that were originally around 1200-1500 SF. Most have now been remodeled, and because of the larger lots most are significantly larger...mine is 2100 SF. We have 4 bedrooms and 2 kids, so we have a guest bedroom that could accommodate a surprise kid. I think most people just have kids share a room if necessary, often getting creative with cube shelving units or screens to partition the rooms for a sense of privacy. But living space isn't at the same premium that it is in more urban areas.
People do add another story to their home if they need a lot of space and have a lot of money available, and many people build ADUs, which are smaller, freestanding studio or one-bedroom cottages that can be used for grandparents or older kids. Obviously you need enough space in your backyard for that. And many people turn their garages into a bedroom, or add a second story to a detached garage that is then used as an apartment. My husband and I actually rented an above-garage studio when we first lived together. That's a lot more affordable than adding a second story to an entire house.
blkhatwhtdog@reddit
Ceilings and crawl spaces have happened.
Motels have wide gaps between rooms and voyeurs have been known to sit behind the mirror with one way glass to watch. If the mirror is bolted to the wall. High possibility of that.
Pabu85@reddit
No. But this happened. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68924955
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
That was probably terrifying, but the title creased me 😆 60,000 beeeeeees!!!
Pabu85@reddit
Yeah. Poor kid.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Yeah 😥 I love bees and have my whole life, but I would have shit scared too.
ChanclasConHuevos@reddit
Walls, no but I could imagine someone living in a few of the crawl spaces I’ve been in. Some were so labyrinthine that I had to open up google maps to find my way out.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
This thread has honestly been fascinating. I can't imagine a house big enough to have that much dead space in it.
ChanclasConHuevos@reddit
I used to service sprinkler systems in the Yellowstone Club, the world’s only private ski resort. The ultra wealthy build mega-mansions in this giant gated community, that they stay at like 2 weeks a year, tops. It’s honestly disgusting.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Agreed. There must be a few private homes in the UK that big, but not many. Tax policies in the middle of last century had the intended effect of pricing even the wealthy out of that sort of property (except for the ones who wear crowns, of course 🙃).
Big_Act5424@reddit
No, this is as ridiculous as it sounds. Only a house built with crawlspaces in the walls would be able to fit a person.our walls have 3 1/2” gaps, only slightly bigger than those in the UK according to your post.
Maronita2025@reddit
NOT necessarily! If built during slavery could have large passageways for the slaves to move around in.
Big_Act5424@reddit
Yes, read my comment again. I said, "Only houses built with crawlspace in the walls would be able to fit a person."
That means that only houses built with crawlspaces big enough for people would have them.
You were just looking for a reason to mention slavery.
CalamityClambake@reddit
Well ayckshully...
Slavery is one reason why some houses in the US would specifically have walls that could be lived in, whereas houses from the same time period in the UK would not. I think it's a little odd that you'd accuse someone of "looking for a reason to mention slavery" when slavery is the reason.
Does slavery make you uncomfortable?
Big_Act5424@reddit
Yes , slavery makes me uncomfortable .Slavery is wrong. Alithough seems like you're ok with slavery, with the way you worded your question.
Again, read my original statement. ""Only a house built with crawlspaces in the walls would be able to fit a person." The average home in the US has only 3 1/2” between the sheetrock. I know, I've helped build a few houses.
CalamityClambake@reddit
Pardon, I should have said, "Does the discussion of slavery as a force that caused things to happen in the US make you uncomfortable?"
A crawl space is generally big enough to crawl through, but not big enough to walk through. I know how average houses are built. We are not talking about average houses. We are talking about the kinds of houses where someone could live in the walls. Although those kinds of houses are not common in the US, they do exist here... And they are more common in areas where slavery was a thing, because of slavery.
This is a nation built on slavery. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that. You can't properly understand what is happening now without taking that into account.
Slavery doesn't make me happy. But it fucking pisses me off when people try to whitewash it.
Big_Act5424@reddit
"This is a nation built on slavery..." Yeah, no shit. We fought a war over it and it still exists, enshrined in our constitution. The agriculture industry STILL wants slaves in the form of undocumented, underpaid, exploited individuals. Our employers had to be forced to pay a minimum wage because if they didn't, every town would be a company town and we wouldn't be able to go anywhere without the boss's permission.
I find the mention of houses built for the purpose of hiding slavery or runaway slaves unnecessary because, once again, I said ""Only a house built with crawlspaces in the walls would be able to fit a person" and that by default includes houses built with the intent to hide slaves or people escaping slavery.
You seem like a person of some education, you should be able to expand on my thought without it needing to be explicitly stated.
CalamityClambake@reddit
I am so sorry my comment did not fit the script in your head. (?)
Big_Act5424@reddit
It's ok, you keep batting at your strawman and we'll both get the full reddit experience.
OK_Stop_Already@reddit
They did the same thing for servants too. They even had their own hidden staircases.
shelwood46@reddit
They actually have a bunch of big old mansions in the UK with secret passages and rooms because of the whole "killing Catholics especially priests" things in the olden days (Lisbon has them too, for the same reason). Mystery writers love them.
OK_Stop_Already@reddit
Yeah!
Maronita2025@reddit
No, I was NOT looking for a reason to mention slavery. To me a crawlspace is just big enough to crawl through NOT walk through comfortably.
KW5625@reddit
Not really. Our walls are at most 12" (30cm) thick
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
walls vary, mine are 24" thick or so... But that's an east coast thing
and not hollow that's brick
jeffbell@reddit
Sometimes you get sounds coming through vents from quite a distance.
Efficient_Wheel_6333@reddit
Yep. I live in a house that was built in the late 1960s and the first floor roof along with the garage roof are angled in such a way that squirrels and any other small rodents running around on them sounds like they're in the house.
It also doesn't help that my house is situated in such a way that if I hear a car door shut, I have to look outside to see if someone pulled in or if it's one of my neighbors pulling into their driveway (usually the neighbors).
jorwyn@reddit
Mine was a custom build in '83, and somehow they made sound carry everywhere. A mouse in the unfinished area of the basement sounds like a raccoon in my bedroom. A raccoon at the side garage door sounds like it's in the laundry room. The floor squeaks in multiple places, and you can hear it throughout the entire house. When it settles at night, it really does, and the furnace kicks on with a solid thump.
I can't actually see my driveway from any of the windows because of the garage. I can't even the street in front of my house because of bushes. I never have any idea if my dog is barking at a delivery truck for me or someone else until I hear footsteps on my porch - if he shuts up enough for that. He's really opposed to delivery trucks for some reason.
brzantium@reddit
Same. There's something about my street that sound just carries down to my house. If anyone's having any kind work done, I'll know about it. When we first went remote, I had to stop a one-on-one I was having with my manager because I thought someone else was in my house. Nope, it was roofers working on the house behind us.
The_Wonder_Bread@reddit
On occasion it'll be the Jews under the floorboards.
But only in specific cities.
LieutenantStar2@reddit
Used to live in a town house… squirrel got in between units once. Was so noisy! Used a bit of cheese to get them into a live trap, then let them go. Thankfully they were smart enough not to come back.
dastardly740@reddit
Bats can be pretty noisy for their size. And, they can be very small and end up in tiny spaces. For example, if you have cedar siding with corner trim their is a tiny space between the trim and the siding due to the angle of the siding. Bats will take up residence in that space and be quite noisy scratchy at sunset as they get ready to head out insect hunting.
ReferenceCreative510@reddit
A bat once wound up in my mom's room. Not sure how it got in, but it was captured and put back outside
Large-Delay-1123@reddit
We had squirrels in the attic and you’d think it was a herd of elephants
Emmyisme@reddit
We had a woodpecker get stuck in the attic when I was a kid and holy crap you would have thought there were 20 of them with the racket it made until my father managed to get it directed back out the hole it had apparently made to get itself in there while we were camping over the weekend and covered the hole.
The asshole came back for weeks trying to recreate its entry hole. Which was conveniently directly above my bedroom. I hated everything for like a month until it finally gave up after my dad tried everything he could think of to deter it (this was before the Internet was really a thing)
BlaggartDiggletyDonk@reddit
Now the Woody Woodpecker laugh is stuck in my head.
squilliamfancyson837@reddit
We had squirrels in our attic when I was a kid, and my bedroom was right below it with stairs leading down. I told my parents for months that something was up there and they didn’t believe me until my mom went up to get something and ran back down yelling. That was my first taste of vindication.
PrairieDawn1975@reddit
Yes I thought it was a raccoon! Animal control was like LOL squirrel.
BigNorseWolf@reddit
They like peanut butter a lot better. When I was trying to trap a rat outside I d get.. im pretty sure it was the same squirrel in there every morning by 7 am.
he cursed me out every time.
NinjaKitten77CJ@reddit
Last time I used a live trap to get the squirrel, I ended up with a skunk in the trap. I don't use traps anymore, and the squirrel can just do as he pleases now.
CasanovaF@reddit
My cat got lost. I was going crazy so I went out and bought a cat sized live trap. It was out for several nights with no success. I was pretty bummed one night and got really really drunk. I peeked my head outside and saw I caught something. I didn't turn the light on, I just went out and brought the trap into my living room!
What do you think was in the trap?
Luckily it was a cat... Pretty chill actually, but it wasn't my cat! It could have so easily been a skunk or raccoon or a drop bear!
What's the saying, "got projects drunks and children!"?
NinjaKitten77CJ@reddit
Hahaha! I was so worried until you said it was a cat!
Outside_Case1530@reddit
What's a drop bear?
KW5625@reddit
Carnivorous koala
ReferenceCreative510@reddit
I doubt you could even fit a person in the space between the interior/exterior boards
MegaTreeSeed@reddit
Yeah. You'd have to be pretty wealthy compared to the average American to have enough space for someone to live full-time in your house without you knowing.
Granted it does happen, there are places in our houses we nearly never see unless something is wrong, but I'd wager you wouldn't see much "phrogging" in smaller homes.
VeronicaMarsupial@reddit
I had birds get into my stove vent and nest there one time. That was an ordeal.
Imightbeafanofthis@reddit
My wife and I came home from a three day camping trip once to find not one, but two birds in our house. They were a mess, and the house was a mess. Of course, the birds were freaked out, flying all over the house, and it took us about an hour to finally get them outside, where we put food and water for them. It was fucking bizarre. The only way they could have come in was through the fireplace, and it seemed like they did because there was soot all over the place too. Stupid starlings! I love birds, but that day I didn't love them so much. lol
ScarletDarkstar@reddit
Yeah, nobody is trying to waste floors pace inside of walls.
SeekerOfSerenity@reddit
I think "living in the walls" isn't meant to be taken literally. It's just an expression. They could be living in the attic.
KW5625@reddit
True, I was answering this part specifically... "does the average American home have enough space inside the walls for a person to hide in?"
Basic_Visual6221@reddit
I think when it happens (if it truly happens), it does so in houses that have been remodeled and have those weird closed off spaces for whatever reason. Like this wall is ugly but original stone and it'll cost money we don't have/want to spend so we'll add some dry wall. I've seen weird spaces in houses on remodeling shows.
Or attics/crawl spaces not used as part of the home. The utility accessible spaces.
courtd93@reddit
It’s probably a joke, but it really depends. There are some houses, usually the old big ones, that would have hidden paths between the walls for servants or if they were big bootleggers during prohibition. There’s also genuinely instances that people have had where someone was living in their attic/basement etc and they didn’t know it. But no, the average home doesn’t have space for them to literally be in the walls.
st_psilocybin@reddit
My aunt lived in an old house and one of the bedrooms has a corner that had dead space behind it. Like imagine a wall, drywalled, trimmed and everything, put up in a corner for no apparent reason and no visible access point. No door, no cubby. I don't know if they ever tried to look in through the attic. But the bedroom on the opposite side of that wall was perfectly square and it was obvious there was dead space between those walls in that corner. Always scared ourselves at night talking about what could be in there lol
aculady@reddit
Probably either a chimney or vent or where they added plumbing and electric after the house was originally built without them.
st_psilocybin@reddit
That would make a lot of sense. The area was directly above a dining room that used to be a sunroom, and who knows what it was before that.
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
Sounds more like a Dumbwaiter shaft.
Outrageous-Pin-4664@reddit
*who could be in there
Suppafly@reddit
Usually it's something boring like an old chimney, plumbing, or HVAC. We had a corner boxed off in our basement at my old house and when we moved, I cut an access hole to look and it was literally nothing but a 1" gas pipe. I have no idea why they boxed off the whole corner to cover one small pipe, I think originally they had some cabinets down there too, and the walled in section helped cut down on how many cabinets they needed and provided a place for them to butt up against, but I really don't know for sure.
Sans_Seriphim@reddit
Probably just a few bodies.
AnneMos@reddit
The typical servant ways were not really secret passages but rather discreetly placed passages that guests would normally not see.
You-Asked-Me@reddit
I have seen several houses where the servants stairwell was walled over, and only rediscovered years later. A lot of these are extremely small, steep and winding, often covered just because they are pretty unsafe to walk down. With the complex shape of a lot of the houses, actually easy not to realize they were there.
Upper floors also had knee walls with crawl spaces behind them.
But, any show or movie with people "In the walls" was pretty made up.
Supernatural had an episode in a huge old farm house that had like 2-3' unrealistic gaps in walls,
And in The Matrix, climbing down the main "wet wall" was pretty unrealistic, but since that was not a physical building, but a computer generated simulation, I'll give it a pass.
AnneMos@reddit
Okay, now I have to go back on what I said. In multi-unit complexes the walls have allowed space enough for a person to crawl about. Certain types of structures include "chase" spaces for access to plumbing and electrical work; the chases allow more convenient access that enables a worker to follow a problem from one point to another without having to enter multiple units. I'm not sure when they started to limit the usage of chases. My local school has chases that allow plumbers easy access - the old part of the building with the chases was built in 1937.
courtd93@reddit
Sure, I meant hidden as in discrete compared to secret and in some houses they were later closed off which is where a situation like this becomes possible. Plus bootlegger houses meant they actually were secret.
Subject_Way7010@reddit
Charlies apartment in IASIP
Iwantapetmonkey@reddit
I ended up watching some episodes of a show that popped up once about people who live in others houses/apartments like that (from a quick google I think it was Phrogging: Hider in My House). Lots of aneceotal examples of people doing this though I don't know statistically how widespread it is.
Sometimes there would be someone living in a pretty crazy spot like a tight crawlspace at the top of a closet and such, anywhere they could conceal themselves while they slept and then at night or during the day when the owners were away they'd come out and use the living space, nibble food from the fridge, etc.
sunbear2525@reddit
There is a Cold War era high school here in my city that has hidden pathways through the walls. I assume they were something to do with evading fallout.
GreenBeanTM@reddit
My great grandma’s house had a secret cellar/basement that at least supposedly was used in the Underground Railroad
ComesInAnOldBox@reddit
In houses? No.
In refurbished apartment buildings that used to be factories or warehouses? Eh, maybe. Depends on how the renovations were done, but it's not very likely.
bluescrew@reddit
There are a few real life instances of someone secretly living in a house without the owners/ residents knowing. It was almost always either the attic or a room the residents never went into, maybe even an attached storeroom/cellar. I think there is at least one case of a dude trying to get into a house via the chimney, getting stuck, and being found dead weeks later.
fantastikalizm@reddit
In the US, modern homes i terior walls are constructed with 2x4" boards every 18-24" and drywall is layed on top to create a smooth wall. People cannot fit in the walls, but sometimes small cats, squirrels, or rodents can find an access point and go inside.
I wonder if you are hearing stories of concealed squatters. Sometimes in older homes, you may have an attic access in a closet. Or you might be able to create and conceal attic access or access to another odd "dead space" in the home created during renovations or retrofitting modern plumbing or HVAC.
While very rare, there are some recorded incidents where a homeowner starts noticing things going missing. Usually food, batteries, books, toiletries, etc. A squatter is found to have made themselves at home in an attic or dead space. They will come out and collect supplies while the home is empty and return to their nest.
Impossible_Jury5483@reddit
No. The walls in most "modern" American homes are about 6 -8 inches thick.
sics2014@reddit
I've never heard that expression at all.
Maybe that's all it is. And it refers more so to crawlspaces, attics and cellars?
Phil_ODendron@reddit
OP heard this phrase from paranormal podcasts. It's not based in reality. Poltergeists if they did exist, could live in the walls because they're not confined by earthly boundaries.
No_Street8874@reddit
No, the wall are full of supports and insulation. You’d have to build it special or some homes could have some wasted interior wall space.
DiscontentDonut@reddit
I live by the woods, and we get squirrels that climb on the outside of our house quite often. It sounds like some ethereal entity outside is trying to scratch their way in. But when you start to get to know the sounds and get used to it, most of the time you can tell it's squirrels just playing or using our house to get to a different tree.
AgITGuy@reddit
Not in most modern construction at all - space is at a premium and rarely are walls themselves thicker than 5 to 6 inches. Most homes don’t have internal crawl spaces, and those that do may have some space underneath if it is built on peer and beam foundation. But much like attics, that space isn’t climate controlled and so would be hot and humid in summer and cold in winter.
Even in older homes, aside from more extravagant builds, people couldn’t afford to waste money on unused space. There are a few stories of people finding secret rooms in their attics after the fact because a strange person somehow gained access to said space, built it out in secret and lived as quietly as they could. I saw one where an attic had an entire room built in play home co structure toon. The squatter even had drywall, insulation, lighting and a window unit air conditioner.
It is not at all common.
markmakesfun@reddit
*pier
AgITGuy@reddit
Thank for the correction, it was late and I wasn’t paying attention.
markmakesfun@reddit
No prob. Glad to help.
Dr_StrangeloveGA@reddit
How did someone not notice a window unit air conditioner installed in their home, not to mention the noise?
edwbuck@reddit
Such scenarios are often squatters in commercial buildings, or in buildings where one might mistake a space for something else. For example, a small (too small to use) storage room getting the door removed and boarded up.
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-accidental-room/ is the most memorable example I can find.
And then there are many "not so secret" secret rooms / apartments in New York that were basically built by the owners, so they could have residences in places that sometimes the city wouldn't permit, or just were unusual in the sense you wouldn't think someone lived there. (Like the New York Public Library).
AgITGuy@reddit
I can’t begin to imagine what excuses could be made. It’s been years and I want to say I remember the owners being curious why their electric bill kept above a certain amount at all times even if they went on vacation. That they finally inspected the whole house and found the ‘room’ in a hard to get section in the attic. But again that’s what I remember which may be wrong.
Soonerpalmetto88@reddit
There was a movie about this, there's a phenomenon called 'phrogging' where people will (somehow) live in your house without your knowing. I don't remember the name of the movie but it had Jodie Foster in it. Obviously the story is fictional but it's supposed to be a real phenomenon, either squatters or people playing a prank as part of a dare.
secrerofficeninja@reddit
Nope, not possible. Average house walls are nowhere near thick enough for a human. Now, the attic is a different story. Someone could be living in the attic
harpejjist@reddit
In an average American Home? No but in some older more well to do homes there is a gap in between walls for insulation.
enstillhet@reddit
Mice and sometimes garter snakes live in my walls. That's about it. The snakes eat the mice, so that helps.
Hoopajoops@reddit
Those houses would be very hard to find, and I don't know of any houses where you would be able to access the majority of the house by living in the walls, and of the houses where there is enough room to live back there for extended periods of time.. it would be even more rare to find one where you could make a space that was even remotely comfortable.
Basically, a long time ago, before modern building practices, some houses would have a few walls that would be like 2' think and have a few access hatches in various rooms to get back there. There were multiple potential purposes: you could check for pests or pest damage, look at the overall condition of the house, etc.. but the main purpose was for maintenance. Made it incredibly easy to run a new electrical outlet during a time when people weren't really sure how many outlets they actually wanted as it was an emerging technology. Valving for plumbing fixtures making it easy if something sprung a leak somewhere, air ducts.. etc. But it was usually only one wall within the house that might span multiple floors. You might be able to find a place to throw a blanket or something down to sleep, and you might have access to a crawl space.. but to spend years back there would be damn near impossible and it definitely wouldn't be comfortable
muphasta@reddit
Most homes - No.
But... My cousin's house had a ton of odd space in the basement. My uncle had an office set up that he had to shimmy between two studs to get into. He basically cut out the drywall.
A former co-worker found that his daughter had moved 3 people into an odd crawl space in his house. They'd use a bucket as a toilet and then use the bathroom and kitchen when he and his wife were out of the house.
AcanthisittaWhole216@reddit
It most likely means someone lives in one of the unused rooms in the house, maybe an attic, and move around in secret that sounds like they live in the wall.
Wizzmer@reddit
Depends on what studs were used in your home's construction. LOL
The_Menu_Guy@reddit
If you live anywhere near the woods, as many of us do, it is not uncommon for mice or even sometimes squirrels to sometimes get into the attic space or a wall space adjacent to an outside wall. You need to trap them out and find the gap where they got in and seal it up. A few years ago, I had flying squirrels chew their way into my attic, and we had to get a pest guy to trap them out. They make a lot of racket. We got all 6 of them. Little bastards.
VinceP312@reddit
I have a family of four living in the wall between my closet and bathroom.
MelMoitzen@reddit
Bad Ronald
Few-Reception-4939@reddit
Maybe in an attic but my walls are less than a foot thick. I live in a 1960’s split level
judijo621@reddit
Not people.
A friend had a wasp nest that entered the house through the walls. They heard buzzing and had an exterminator scheduled when the critters made their way into the house. Beekeepers cut through walls and floors for bees and hives.
The attic where most houses don't use for storage: Rats. Mice. Bats. Racoons. Some may fall into the walls.
liberterrorism@reddit
It's not likely, but it has happened enough that there is a name for it: phrogging. Usually in a crawl space or attic, not literally in between 2 sheets of drywall.
Stabbyhorse@reddit
The average home is built with a 4" space filled with insulation. Attics and basements have room to live
phunkjnky@reddit
Not the average home, but it can and has happened.
https://www.reddit.com/r/coldcases/comments/1cqjkuv/living_in_the_walls_the_disturbing_true_story_of/
Outrageous-Pin-4664@reddit
Interior wall studs are typically 3.5", and the exterior wall studs are 6".
Any "someone" living in the walls would have to be supernatural (or maybe Supernatural).
They would be A Thin Ghost indeed.
Suppafly@reddit
Not in the walls, but maybe in the attic.
_haha_oh_wow_@reddit
This depends on the house, but for some, yes a person could certainly be living behind a wall, in a crawlspace, in the attic, etc. especially if they didn't mind cramped quarters.
No_Appointment6273@reddit
It really depends on the house. I used to move a lot as a child, and I was fascinated with houses. There are some houses with a lot of dead space, some houses with large attics and basement, that someone could easily live in. And some houses with absolutely no closets, storage and paper thin walls that no one could ever hide in.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
There may be some "design" choices that provide sloped coverings on 90 degree corners in a few places but generally people (and builders) want the most space for the cost and that means keeping wasted space to a minimum. Typically the walls anywhere I have been are either cinder-block (commercial apartments) with brick covering affixed for aesthetics or they are 2x4 framing that is either insulated (exterior) or empty (interior) but that's at best 3.5 inches by 16 inches of empty space between the framing to fit between the pipes and wires.
yumyum_cat@reddit
No, it's a weird conceit mainly for old houses. That said my house is about 100 years old and the walls are about 4" at most. They could live in the crawlspace but it would be cold and dark.
icekraze@reddit
It is not common but it has happened. The space between most walls isn’t large enough for a human but often there are spaces that are walled off because the space isn’t usable. The most common area would be in an attic or just a living space directly below the roof. Because many roofs slope there is space where the ceiling is very low. To save on heating and cooling costs that area is walled off. Sometimes you have an access point to use it for storage/maintenance but other times it is fully walled off. There have been cases of people finding these spaces and living in them.
Another common space that is walled off are the old servants hallways and staircases in old homes. There is a twofold reason for those to be closed off. It saves on heating/cooling but generally those spaces do not fit modern building codes. When a massive renovation happens on these old homes things need to be brought up to code (with some exceptions for historical homes) and that is very expensive. Therefore instead of attempting to make a space wider or replace the old extremely steep staircases people just wall them off. Generally in those paranormal podcasts these would be the spaces where people would be “living in the walls”. The spaces are very narrow but large enough for a person to move around and in theory live. Again there have been documented cases of people living in these spaces so it does happen, but it is far from a common occurrence.
botulizard@reddit
A person, no. A raccoon, absolutely.
Embarrassed_Fig1801@reddit
Most walls have a gap as wide as the 2x4 they are attached to so absolutely not. There are some huge attics though in some old houses.
Purplehopflower@reddit
Big enough for small animals, rodents, raccoons, bats absolutely. Humans? It would be rare. We had a cat who climbed up into the basement ceiling tiles and then fell between the cement wall and the drywall. We got her out, not cat was harmed aside from being scared.
Vegetable-Star-5833@reddit
In the walls not really but attic or crawl space def
Wadsworth_McStumpy@reddit
It's a joke. That's the kind of thing you might see in movies, when somebody built a house specifically for that purpose, but it's just a movie trope. Usually they have secret rooms, and paintings with the eyes cut out so they can spy on people and stuff. Almost always in a really big house, because people would notice if the wall between the bedroom and bathroom was three feet wide instead of 4 inches.
It is possible to have "somebody" living in the walls if that somebody is able to move around in a space 3 inches wide. Lots of rodents can do that, and it's certainly possible for things like squirrels, or even small raccoons.
srslytho1979@reddit
Not the average house, but old houses that have been renovated sometimes have walled-off rooms or spaces that people discover later.
xampl9@reddit
Only in older houses that are haunted.
rshining@reddit
It's easy to have Something living in the walls, but in most houses (even the old ones with unexpected and unorthodox building practices) it would be difficult to have Someone living in them. I own an older building that was obviously adjusted by many different owners, with very different levels of skill and expertise, so there are certainly some spaces inside my walls that a human could fit into- but how would they be able to get in there without making a human-sized hole in the plaster? And then what could they accomplish in the single spaces they could fit into- it's not like the occasional 3-square-foot gap has a handy connecting hallway. Families of mice or bugs or pigeons, however, fit just fine and make LOTS of noise.
There WAS a housing complex in a US city (that inspired the Candyman horror movies) that had been built with passages in the walls for maintenance, and apartments could be accessed through the walls- IIRC there were a couple of assaults and murders before the authorities sealed off the spaces.
freebiscuit2002@reddit
Mostly not, but houses come in all shapes and sizes.
I believe there are a few documented cases of unknown people living quietly in the unoccupied spaces of houses, emerging quietly when the owner was out or asleep.
phydaux4242@reddit
Not in a standard American home
5usDomesticus@reddit
If you watch Red Letter Media, they have a kind of running joke about a made-up horror movie about someone living in the walls of a house.
The point is that it's a lazy, ridiculous premise (and one that's actually been done before).
They're a pretty popular, large channel. You've probably seen memes about them even if you don't know who they are.
Golintaim@reddit
Are ypu sure they didn't say something is living in the walks? I've heard that response many time but never someONE living in the walls.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
What would living in the walks mean? I've never heard the expression "in the walks".
Golintaim@reddit
That was a typo living in the walls was what I meant. Sorry for that.
im_on_the_case@reddit
Certainly not in the average home. They are all pretty much vertical studs covered with drywall or plasterboard. That being said I have lived in a couple of houses with extensive crawl spaces that were pretty insane. Like 5 feet high and almost a thousand square feet of space. Somebody could easily go unnoticed down there for a long time as you only ever access it if you need to repair a pipe or run some cables and they are pretty easy to get into.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
A thousand square feet of space is more than the floor space of my little British house. I don't really understand what a crawl space is? Are you able to explain?
ThatInAHat@reddit
It’s kinda what it says on the tin. It’s a space that you usually have to crawl to get through. It’s not so common in modern homes, but before everything was drywall you had to have some way of getting to pipes and wires and things, so there would sometimes be gaps between the walls, like they said. Think of it like a maintenance area.
I don’t know that they’d be 1k square feet. Probably wouldn’t even go through most of the walls in the house. And it’s not exactly a pleasant space. If you ever watch the second episode of Bob’s Burgers, that’s a pretty good example, though it’s bigger than most. Exposed, splintery wood, wires, insulation, no light, and probably some mouse poop or bugs.
im_on_the_case@reddit
Yep a lot of 2k+ sqf split level houses in the South West that have the crawl space underneath the entire ground floor. It's a bit mad. I know there are some services that further excavate them and convert to basements.
ThatInAHat@reddit
Older Cajun homes are usually raised about 3-4 feet for airflow. We lived in one once and nothing on earth could have convinced me to go under it. It was just The Land of Spiders
witchy12@reddit
In most homes? No. A lot of big, old homes will have space between walls though.
BlaggartDiggletyDonk@reddit
Username and flair check out.
HighwaySetara@reddit
I lived in an old house in college, and we had tons of bats. There were holes in the closet walls and the bats would just fly into our rooms. I was so scared of them back then.
MaddoxJKingsley@reddit
Ya ever seen Encanto?
Nah, but honestly, it doesn't really seem possible unless the house is very unique. But someone living in the walls is kind of a horror trope.
LingJules@reddit
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Playful_Question538@reddit
Not really but basements with tunnels can and have happened. There are also attic spaces that are hidden. I found a hidden space in an attic when my sister was looking to buy a home. The owner said it was to hide slaves when they escaped back in the civil war.
I've found mattresses in tunnels under fraternity houses and sleeping bags behind pianos in churches. People will sleep anywhere.
Key-Candle8141@reddit
We get critters in the attic... I've caught 2 raccoons and a possum
I live trap them and release them away from the city
But it sounds like someone or something is up there... didnt freak me out as much as my fiancé... he's from the UK
Plow_King@reddit
i used to have a re-occurring fear of that as a child after i saw a tv movie where that happened. it bothered me so much, my mom made me get out a tape measure to prove there wasn't that much space between my room and a closet that was next to it, lol!
thanks, mom! you're the best!
shelwood46@reddit
Unlikely, especially in newer American houses. Stuff from the 1920s or earlier might have balloon construction, where there are no stops between floors, but that makes it easier for fire to travel, not people. American houses were not really built for some to live in the walls, there are no secret passages like an old English Mansion with priest holes. It's simply to narrow for much beyond vermin, unless it was done purposely as a joke, or someone covered up an old closet or dumbwaiter/elevator shaft. Attics or basement/crawl spaces are much more likely.
JenniferJuniper6@reddit
I found a whole family of mice living in my wall, but so far no humans.
macoafi@reddit
Only if the house was built in the 1800s with hidden passages for servants or for the Underground Railroad.
panaceaXgrace@reddit
I have a small 2 bedroom house but I know there is a space in the center that is accessible at ground level from the outside of the house. Critters have gotten in there before. It's the spot where the plumbing is for the kitchen and bath so it's a kind of tight squeeze. Nobody's having a house party in there but someone could get in and sit and stand and definitely lay down in that area. it's not even a big house!
This house was built in the late forties and it's in a low wage working class area so maybe better quality newer homes aren't like this.
I do remember a story about two teen girls and a man who was living in some part of their house. Crawlspace maybe.
panaceaXgrace@reddit
This is the story I was thinking about. If you don't want to click: The bizarre and twisted case of Daniel LaPlante is one that will keep you up at night. If you’ve ever had a weird feeling that someone else was living in your house… you could just be right. In the late 80s, Daniel LaPlante was convicted of the brutal murder of a nursery school teacher and her two young children. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlmLu-EtgSA&t=16s
Communal-Lipstick@reddit
More like attics. Not walls.
OfficialDeathScythe@reddit
Only situation I can think of where this would be the case is an old house that was renovated where they sealed up an old room. I’ve seen a couple of videos of people opening up an old wall in their house to find a fully furnished room
TheBear8878@reddit
No.
IPreferDiamonds@reddit
No, not possible in any of the homes I've lived in. Although, I did have a squirrel in my wall one time.
HardFoughtLife@reddit
Look up Phrogging (frogging).
Crazy stuff
LettuceInfamous5030@reddit
In cities/states with older homes, people have been found living in walls, crawl spaces, under porches and attics. Sometimes older homes have spaces that owners are not aware of. It’s not especially common but it has happened.
There was an unhoused person living in a crawl space in the basement of my high school. It was a huge school in a major city with a sprawling campus.
Dense_Amphibian_9595@reddit
Exterior walls typically have insulation so are wider. Interior walls here are standard 4.5 inches thick - 3.5 inch gap with 1/2 inch drywall on either side. Exterior walls are 6.5” - 7.5” but filled with insulation. The studs (vertical boards from the floor to ceiling that drywalls is attached to) are spaced 22 inches apart
HudsonAtHeart@reddit
I think the myth comes from attics and crawl spaces especially getting broken into and inhabited by squatters. Which is heard of, but not exactly common
Junior_Ad_3301@reddit
We only live between the walls, sorry
Ok-Matter-4744@reddit
Living in the attic or crawlspace? Absolutely. Living in a formerly thought to be vacant unit? I’ve seen it happen. Living in the walls? Dude, how?
richbiatches@reddit
No
TJ_Rex6288@reddit
Usually the one living in the walls IS about two inches across.
adevilnguyen@reddit
Theyre usually in the attic and not the walls.
Available_Status1@reddit
There have been some cases of people living in basements or antics, but most houses don't have encato like walls that have space for people to move around in.some have certain access spaces but most walls are just 2 by 4s with glass wool between two layers of Sheetrock.
The idea of living in the walls is almost always horror genre related.
DeeDeeW1313@reddit
Probably only in super old homes or weird apartment complexes.
MasterTrevise@reddit
Not in my house
sleepygrumpydoc@reddit
In the walls, no unless the house was built in some way where a room was covered up and you didn't know. But there was a time I had to deal with a guy who swore there was an alien living in his attic. When we finally sent someone to check it out, it turned out there was a squatter up there.
comeholdme@reddit
Who are you that checking up on that complaint was part of your duty?
sleepygrumpydoc@reddit
The person lived in a subsidized apartment that was part of a program I oversaw and we really just sent someone out to get him to stop complaining to us and coming into our office to talk about the alien in the attic. He was known to be a little out there so him ranting about the alien didn’t really seem out of the ordinary.
AwesomeHorses@reddit
We had squirrels in our walls in the house I grew up in.
RubixxOfAberoth@reddit
Some larger houses have wrap around crawl spaces on the second stories, although between two exterior walls there generally is not anywhere near enough room.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
I hope this doesn't sound stupid, but what is a crawl space? Every house I've ever lived in has just had rooms, even if some of them were very small.
vi_sucks@reddit
It's space for access to plumbing and other maintenance items.
Most often it's underneath the house, like if the house foundation is on piles that raise the floor of the house above the dirt just enough for someone to crawl underneath. Or under a deck the extends out from the house.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Thank you, that makes sense. That is not usual here in the UK, if someone needs to access all of the plumbing and wiring, they have to take the floor boards up.
awfulmcnofilter@reddit
So like, its floorboards, pipes and stuff, and then dirt with no gap? Does the uk not have termites?
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
No we don't have termites. And yes, that's what's normal. I helped renovate my Grandma's house, and when we took the floorboards up, it was a small gap for pipes and wires above the concrete foundation of the house.
awfulmcnofilter@reddit
Wild! We have standards here where any wood can't touch the dirt so the termites don't sneak in, plus vapor barriers.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
There are unsually poured concrete or brick foundations, not wood placed on the bare dirt - the UK is notoriously wet, so wood foundations wouldn't last long!
awfulmcnofilter@reddit
I assumed the foundation wasnt wood, but the wood just isnt allowed to be that close to the dirt here.
Okuri-Inu@reddit
Oof. That sounds like a pain in the neck! Do the floorboards come up easy, or do they need to be pried up?
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
They need to be pried up, and it is a pain in the neck. But it's just what we're used to, I guess! Most houses in most towns were built before there were wires and pipes and were retrofitted later.
Okuri-Inu@reddit
Yeah that makes sense. Most American houses were built after plumbing and electricity became widespread, so most have someway to access them. It’s crazy to think about how common place old houses are across the pond. To me, an old house is anything over a century old, but I’m sure that’s nothing compared to some of the places you guys have!😁
HighwaySetara@reddit
We live in the Midwest and are lucky enough to have paved, lit storage under our full front porch. It's not quite tall enough to stand all the way up in, but it's big enough for 6 bikes, a stroller, a lawnmower and some boxes. And lots of spiders.
Lucky-Paperclip-1@reddit
Like a Jefferies Tube
activationcartwheel@reddit
In the walls, no. In the attic or in the crawl space under the house, sure.
Quix66@reddit
Absolutely possible. I live in the South. Lumber framing leaves enough inches between the outer wall and inner drywall for kittens to get stuck inside of they somehow find a way in or some small animal like a small lizard to get in. Insects can get in too.
BarRegular2684@reddit
We’ve got some kind of rodent in there, but not an actual person. If you can get good insulation it would make it even harder.
It might be feasible if you had an enormous old house that had been renovated repeatedly and had secret passages, but I’ve only seen two or three of those in real life.
tcspears@reddit
Some older houses may have more space, as they weren’t always built to a standard, but it would be rare to fit a human being in a wall. Anything modern (since 1900) will be more standard and wouldn’t have random space in the walls.
gummytiddy@reddit
It’s an urban legend called “phrogging”. Typically offline it refers to someone living in your home without you knowing, which has happened. Online there have been likely fake stories of people living in walls. That isn’t possible because our walls are not even a full width of a person thick typically
Basileas@reddit
Modern exterior wall cavities are 5.5'' deep. Interior partititions are 3.5'' deep.
The only way someone lives in the wall is if part of the house is 'walled off,' leading to other rooms etc.
So to be technically correct, you'd be hearing someone 'living in a walled off section of your home.' But that's cumbersome to say, and distracting as it makes you think of construction methods rather than malevolence.
edwbuck@reddit
True, but exterior cavities are typically filled with insulation. Interior ones often contain wiring or plumbing, and both are non-contiguous cavities, being small boxes in the wall such that even small rodents could not walk along a wall's interior. If they do manage to fall into a wall (the sheet rock near ceilings is hung such that there are small gaps) they typically are trapped in that area, unless they manage to climb upwards to exit (the way they fell in).
kmosiman@reddit
To clarify for those not familiar:
A 2x4 board is 1.5 x 3.5 inches. The 2x4 dimension is undried and rough sawn. "Finished " boards are smaller. I think a 2x4 can still technically be 2x4, but 1.5 x 3.5 is the minimum. Also, we don't use plaster much anymore, so different board widths would mess up the finish.
Drywall is typically 1/2" thick. So a 2x4 plus the drywall on 1 side will equal 4 inches. Or, 4.5 inches for standard interior walls with drywall on both sides.
RedLegGI@reddit
Absolutely possible. Liars of wood-framed homes with gaps where animals could get in.
yahgmail@reddit
It may just be a common national fear due to some news stories over the last 60 years of people living in crawl spaces, walls, or attics.
The most recent I saw was a YouTube video compilation where a lady came out of a hidden space in some dude's home & ate his cereal while he was at work. He installed a home camera & caught her.
Hollow-Official@reddit
Silly joke, there’s not enough space in most houses walls for a human to fit let alone live in. Mice can easily though which might explain the noises
MrsNightskyre@reddit
Yes and no. Most American home interior walls are 2x4s with drywall, so you're talking only a few inches "inside" the wall.
However! An older house (in US this means 60+ years old) may have closets or under-stair areas that were walled up and possibly forgotten about. We did this in our house at one point to remove a closet and then eventually add the space to the adjoining room.
Maronita2025@reddit
I always wonder what hidden rooms might be in my parents home. There home is 250 years old.
abjectadvect@reddit
if you have a notebook in measuring tape you can map it out!
mailslot@reddit
Or even an iPhone pro model. They have lidar and there are floorprint apps.
ThatInAHat@reddit
I swear I remember a story about a woman in New York who found out there was a walled off apartment behind her mirror…and someone was living in it
Playful_Fan4035@reddit
I remember reading that, too, but I can’t remember if it was just a story or an actual event that happened.
groundhogcow@reddit
No. It would take a house designed to have a space in the walls. 4" (10cm) is all the space most get and some modern homes do 2" (5cm). Some very old hoses had sections added on to them at random times, which left weird spaces. That is where the people living in the walls come from. (and the secret rooms rich people used to make to hide their retarded children)
panda2502wolf@reddit
There are a couple of documented cases but it's very rare. Not common at all.
Slow_Balance270@reddit
My den upstairs has wall spaces on both sides big enough to put beds in if you wanted and have multiple points of access, that run the entire length of the upstairs of the house. That's also not considering stuff like crawl spaces.
I read a story awhile back that really made me think, basically someone's kid was complaining about a man being in their room and they blew the kid off until one day the dog is in the basement going nuts and they find a man living in the crawl space of their basement. They had a bedroll, food, cigarettes and some of the kid's clothes in that space.
I use the story as an example of how parents should always listen to their children, even if they think they are just being stupid kids.
I think this largely depends on the location, in the midwest a lot of folks leave their doors unlocked, wouldn't be that hard for someone to wander in and hide.
Metharos@reddit
Lol no. Might be just about possible for something to live in your walls, but a whole-ass person? Not gonna happen.
Most of the walls in modern homes are held up by 4-inch-wide lumber. Actually 3.5", I'm not sure why. The actual thickness is that 3½ inches of lumber, plus about one half-inch thick sheet of drywall on each side.
Exterior walls are a little different, but not by much. And they still have no crawlspace big enough to fit anything larger than a squirrel or very stubborn possum.
HazelEBaumgartner@reddit
Everybody's saying no, but it's definitely something that's happened. It's usually not "in the walls" but rather in voids or crawlspaces, unaccessed closets, or in the attic/basement.
Here's a link to a very famous case where a man was living in a void in a family's basement in an extreme stalking case that ended with a triple homicide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_LaPlante
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
I think I'm still not quite conveying to people how tiny British houses really are, and that's why I'm not understanding this idea. Houses here don't have "voids", "crawlspaces" or "unaccessed closets" and basements are unusual. Attics are not unusual, but can generally only be accessed through one door above all the bedrooms, or via the roof if you try very hard.
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Most attics here only have one access point as well, that doesn’t really change much to an intruder tho. They just break in while the house is empty and go in the attic before someone gets home.
It’s obviously not a common thing, but realistically there’s nothing stopping someone from living in a UK attic any more than a US attic.
HazelEBaumgartner@reddit
If you want more on the story, Wendigoon did a good video on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeTjW3luv7Y
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Most commonly when someone says that what they would actually mean is “someone living in the attic” which has actually happened
lilroguesnowchef@reddit
It's usually old buildings. My apartment building is 3, 100+ year old buildings Frankensteined together. My unit has a drop ceiling and my own attic for storage. You can literally crawl and get into a few of my neighbors units if you wanted.
CoraCricket@reddit
No not possible, walls are normal wall width still in America. Maybe in an attic or basement or something
Salty_Dog2917@reddit
Are they talking about ghosts beings it’s paranormal?
Dead_before_dessert@reddit
There is at least one true crime story that involves a teenager living in the walls of his "love interest" only to jump out from a closet and murder the family.
It's based on a true case but the "living in the walls" thing seems to be very unsubstantiated and mostly just modern myth making.
Expensive_Luck8029@reddit
no, there are cases of people living inside someone's walls in the US in the most literal sense
Suspicious_Expert_97@reddit
That is underneath in the crawl space not in the walls themselves.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
I think I just tried to reply to the deleted comment above, asking how there is space inside a wall for a person. Can you explain to me what a crawl space is? My UK house doesn't have anything that I think is equivalent.
hugeyakmen@reddit
A crawl space is present in home that are built on a raised foundation but where it wasn't necessary and economically feasible to dig deep enough for a full basement. It's often only tall enough to crawl through (hence the name). Most of the plumbing and wiring for the whole house is routed through here for service access
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Oh OK. I don't think we have an equivalent in most of the UK? Basements are unusual, and if people need to get to the wiring etc under the ground floor, they just take the floor boards up.
Suspicious_Expert_97@reddit
"Crawl spaces are common in the Southern and Pacific Northwest regions of the U.S., as well as in coastal areas and locations with expansive soils or high water tables. They are used in warmer climates where basements are less practical, in flood-prone areas to elevate the home, and in regions like North Carolina where soil conditions make deep excavation difficult."
This is a Google AI explanation that makes it a little bit clearer. My area for example has basically no basements or crawl spaces. Although trailer/ manufactured homes will generally have enough of an area to call it a crawl space.
Expensive_Luck8029@reddit
ohh I see
FoggyGoodwin@reddit
Most homes don't have any dead space inside large enough for someone to actually live. My current house has an alcove in the living room that might have had a fake fireplace. There's a space on either side large enough to stand in or maybe lie uncomfortably, and a space maybe 4'w 3'd 3.5'h above the "fireplace" space. That would be an uncomfortable place to live, plus there is no access to get in/out.
GazelleOpposite1436@reddit
You lost me at 'paranormal'.
North81Girl@reddit
It means animals
Current_Poster@reddit
It's a bit from a bad horror movie (Google "Bad Ronald").
blkandwhtlion@reddit
In really old buildings like old hotels and the like, large crawl space areas were common for maintenance crews and inefficient (by today's standards) plumbing and electric could run comfortably but still be accessible to work on.
It could be reference to those large spaces which I suppose could have been used by less fortunate to live in or creep around in unseen.
Kind of reminds me of American Horror story hotel season
Tomas-TDE@reddit
I live in New England so we definitely have some of the oldest houses in the USA and it's possible to get into the walls in some of them. My brother was into some lumpy headed activities when he was younger and at one point was very much wanted by the police. He found a way to get into the wall in a closet at his mom's apartment and was hiding out in the walls and ceiling. You couldn't easily travel like room to room through just the walls though. Like doorways and corners blocked off paths.
PaisleyLeopard@reddit
Not in the average home, but some of them have suitable nooks and crannies for it. Usually it’s an attic, crawl space, or extra room that got walled off for whatever reason.
Actual cases like this have happened, but they make good stories precisely because they’re so rare.
Cool-Coffee-8949@reddit
There could easily be something living in the walls. But it’s probably rodents.
VulfSki@reddit
No.
Red_Beard_Rising@reddit
It means the house has ghosts.
infinitefacets@reddit
My house definitely has spaces large enough someone could live in them…within crawl spaces and dormers that are meant for storage but we don’t use them so we’d never know. It’s freaky when I think about it too much because it’s rare but “frogging” is a real thing. My house is also “large” enough and oriented in a way that someone could be in my house and i wouldn’t necessarily know.
It’s great for hide and seek tho.
hawken54321@reddit
When I was flipping channels once, came upon a Search for Bigfoot show. My favorite line I heard was "This area looks really Squatchy." Maybe Bigfoot is in your walls.
StrawberryTerry@reddit
Yess
Fun_Push7168@reddit
Typically no. There are often large voids somewhere in some designs but not literally in the walls per se.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
What's a utility chase? I'm learning so many terms from these comments!
Fun_Push7168@reddit
Just a hollow space designated for running big stuff between floors. Pipes, ducts, etc.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Oh OK. UK houses don't ever really have voids in the structure anywhere. Water and gas pipes will be under floorboards and there probably won't be ducts anywhere.
Fun_Push7168@reddit
I'm talking going from the first floor to second floor or more. It's vertical and its the centralized space for that. Those items will spread out from there under the actual floor to where they need to go.
It often goes all the way to the attic. Some are tiny some are slightly larger than the main duct , some are just excessive to the point of resembling a two story closet before being enclosed.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Pipes, wires etc in UK houses are typically threaded through tiny cavities in the walls and under the floorboards. There aren't any ducts. Every house I've ever lived in was built before wiring or indoor plumbing was invented so had to be retrofitted, and I guess our tradies just got good at working in small spaces because my friends with more modern houses have a similar set up.
NemeanMiniLion@reddit
OLD BIG houses. That's where the hidden areas are. I'm talking mansions that had service staff. Those pathways were often installed for workers to not be seen but be able to provide service to rooms.
SGDFish@reddit
Yes, but only in a home with non-euclidean geometry
Fae-SailorStupider@reddit
Can a human of average height and weight fit in a wall? Yes, a lot of them anyways. Could they live in the walls? Extremely unlikely because it would be way too tight to really move around. There are quite a few old buildings scattered across the country though that were built during prohibition that have secret walkways hidden between walls.
Birdywoman4@reddit
Had a neighbor who lived 3 houses down from my home. He moved away recently. Another neighbor told me that. he moved due to getting tired of dealing with all the mice and rattlesnakes. The rattlesnakes were nesting inside of his walls. The buyer had to pay to have the home rehabbed. Including tearing out the Sheetrock from the walls and capturing the rattlesnakes.
No-Understanding-912@reddit
A person, no. Animals though is pretty common
Teknicsrx7@reddit
Probably the most famous case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_LaPlante
But there’s been a few, some have been in attics not walls
Playful_Fan4035@reddit
I’ve never heard anyone exclaim that someone was living in the walls. I have heard of people exclaiming “I think there’s something living in the walls!” Meaning they think there is mice, rats, squirrels, or some other pest living in the wall.
Most walls would be like maybe 6 inches thick, max a foot and there is insulation, wires, beams, and stuff in there. A person wouldn’t fit, let alone be able to walk around.
The only shows I can think of with the plot being someone living in the walls, are both animated. One is Bruno from the movie Encanto, but that is a magical house in Columbia. The other is an episode of Bob’s Burgers—but they live in like townhouse style apartment above a commercial property, which is not a common set up—and it’s also a comedy cartoon.
Bluemonogi@reddit
You could not have a person fit between walls in any house I have lived in.
body_by_art@reddit
There was a story where a stalker was living in the attic.
Rattlingplates@reddit
Attic basement or unknown room however b
TrillyMike@reddit
It’s a joke
Global-Biscotti-9547@reddit
Maybe not a living person living in the walls but something else. No joke I’ve lived in two homes that were possibly haunted and stayed in another one that had a history. Our crawlspace under the house is big enough for a person.
int3gr4te@reddit
Not in anyplace I've ever lived. They'd need to be like 4 inches thick, less than 16 inches wide, and very sedentary to live in between two pieces of drywall in the space between the studs (of an interior wall - in the exterior walls that space is filled with insulation!).
HorseFeathersFur@reddit
Very sedentary… or dead
IanDOsmond@reddit
I live in an old house, and a squirrel or rat could live in the walls. Nothing much bigger, though.
KTeacherWhat@reddit
Squirrels
Eather-Village-1916@reddit
There often is enough space in commercial buildings with multiple floors, but not so much houses. Newer homes, definitely not, but older homes and apartment buildings definitely can.
Also wondering if maybe it’s a slight Borrower’s reference.
nghtmrbae@reddit
I mean, I grew up in New Orleans and there are probably a lot of places to "hide in the walls" there but over all, no. That's crazy walls are like 3 in thick.
e_smith338@reddit
Nah. Walls with insulation wiring, plumbing, etc are probably not more than 12-18 inches. There’s a lot of unfinished attics though.
Syndromia@reddit
In the walls? No. But some of our prewar houses could definately have someone hiding in a crawlspace/attic/basement.
Paperwife2@reddit
Animals, yes. Adult humans, no. Unless they are The Borrowers.
Ok-Ambassador8271@reddit
I live in the Midsouth & it is definitely possible here in older/larger homes. There are homes here that were associated with the Underground Railroad.
There were also many homes that had slave quarters and access doors that were walled over during the past 160 years.
While not overly common, it is definitely not impossible.
Fit-Rip-4550@reddit
No. The walls are not hollow. They have all the plumbing, heating, air conditioning, and electrical work, along with insulation—and in newer homes some run the ethernet through them.
megamanx4321@reddit
Walls? Only if there are somehow secret rooms or dead spaces the homeowner doesn't know about (which has happened on a few occasions).
Now attics are a different story, there's been quite a few stories about that.
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
Very old aristocratic houses might have hidden servants passages in the walls, but average homes? Absolutely not. There's very little space between the studs, wiring, plumbing, and ducting. And exterior walls generally further have all empty space packed with insulation
Reduak@reddit
Absolutely not. Most homes the wall has outer layer of drywall attached to a 2x4 stud which has the drywall for the next room attached to it. It's wide enough for wires and plumbing to run thru, but its not enough space for a human and its not passable because those studs are only 5-ft apart or so. Outer wall spaces are filled with insulation, so no person can live in the walls.
Spiders, bugs, and rodents on the other hand....
Scribal8@reddit
Mice and bats are pretty good with small spaces. Bees often build hives there. Attics attract raccoons and squirrels. I’ve had young mountain lions dance on my roof but I live near real mountains and forest.
Scribal8@reddit
But I did not read the post as “a human”living in the walls
Teithiwr81@reddit
Time to go watch "The People Under the Stairs"
GreenTravelBadger@reddit
The older houses do have more space, and there have been verified accounts of people living in attics, crawl spaces, and basements. It's rare, though.
Sal1160@reddit
In very old, elaborate homes it was technically possible, sometimes walls could have 16” of space between the plaster for utilities, namely large heating ducts
Saltyfree73@reddit
Only in the movies: Bad Ronald and People Under the Stairs.
CollectionStraight2@reddit
And I guess The Borrowers could fit in the walls
1MrE@reddit
The first Matrix they were sliding down the inside of a wall.
bethlabeth@reddit
Through the Eyes of a Killer was a bit of a sleeper.
Character_School_671@reddit
Mice.
12B88M@reddit
In a normal single family home?
No.
In an old renovated apartment building, maybe, but unlikely
symbolicshambolic@reddit
Yeah, my dad went inside the wall once to fix the wiring to the bathroom light switch. He took the cover off the switch, grabbed a flashlight, went up into the attic, and three minutes later, he was on the other side of the wall telling me to cut some wires free from the little metal cage they were locked into so he could pull them into the wall.
I don't think you could live in there. I think you'd have to sleep standing up.
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Even being able to stand up in there is more space than any wall of any house I've ever lived in!
Litzz11@reddit
The only living thing you will find in our walls is mice. No, of course a person can't live in the walls. This sounds crazy.
Queen_Aurelia@reddit
My parent’s house has hidden rooms they use for storage. I am sure someone could secretly live in one of them. Besides that, I don’t personally know of any house where someone could live in the walls.
rels83@reddit
Not a human, but I pray that I’m hearing squirrels ON my roof, not IN my roof.
GrowlingAtTheWorld@reddit
Not mine living in my walls but someone could be living in the attic, there is an outside entrance to it. But it’s really hot here and they would die of dehydration soon enough.
einsteinGO@reddit
I mean there are legitimate stories of people living in people’s homes undetected, so “in the walls” or “in the house” seems fundamentally immaterial
GoldFreezer@reddit (OP)
Can you expand on this? I don't really understand how someone could live in a house undetected, unless American houses are even bigger than I've been led to believe.
LopsidedGrapefruit11@reddit
Very possible. I have never experienced it, thank gods, but it can happen the way our homes are typically constructed.
LostExile7555@reddit
It's possible to have insects and rodents inside the walls of houses (and a pretty common issue with older buildings). MAYBE even a stray cat or a raccoon. But most walls are thinner than your hand is long, and they're generally filled with fiberglass (it looks sort of like pink cotton candy/candy floss) to provide sound and heat insulation. So it's not really possible to have something person sized inside of the walls of a typical house.
AnneMos@reddit
The typical wall space is created with 2x4s or 2x6s, known as studs; iinterior and exterior wall surfaces are attached to the studs which are typically spaced 16 inches apart from the center of one stud to the center of the next stud. The spaces between the studs generally allow for plumbing and electrical work and exterior walls are usually filled with some form of insulating material.
someolive2@reddit
thats referring to a ghost living in the walls. a ghost who could hypothetically maintain a lot or little space.
BAMspek@reddit
There have been incidents of people living or at least moving between walls of apartment buildings in larger cities like Chicago or New York. What happens is they’ll renovate an older building and for whatever reason block a certain corridor or even whole apartment off and kind of… forget about it? And someone might realize and see it as a chance for rent free living. There was a video that went viral a few years ago about a woman who realized her medicine cabinet was drafty and upon investigating realized there was a whole ass empty apartment behind it. Also look up the tragic story of Ruthie May McCoy of Chicago.
Physical-Energy-6982@reddit
Someone living in the walls? Would be rare. There are some older homes that do have hidden passage type things in the walls, but it’s rare and usually known about.
A family of squirrels taking up residence in the walls though? Absolutely.
yurinator71@reddit
Sometimes
https://history.denverlibrary.org/news/denver/tale-denver-spider-man
ThatInAHat@reddit
He didn’t bath from October to July?!?
garden__gate@reddit
There was a documentary a few years ago about “phroggers” who are supposedly people who secretly live in occupied homes. I don’t think it’s very common at all, but they might have seen or heard about it.
“I’m in your walls” is a bit of a meme/joke about stalking someone so they might be referencing that.
boopbaboop@reddit
Small animals, yes. Humans, no.
TectonicWafer@reddit
I have seen houses where that might be theoretically possible…if that interstitial space wasn’t filled with insulation.
There were houses built in the mid-1800s, mainly in parts of the Northern Midwest and New England, that has air gaps of as much as 8-12” between the exterior and interior walls. The purpose of this was to serve as an airgap insulation, and this space usually was filled with insulating material like rock wool or even shredded corncobs.
So its not really possible, discounting servants passages and the like.
Trinx_@reddit
More like "something." I had a squirrel in my walls at one point. But there's been secret rooms, passage ways, and crawl spaces - not common, but possible. I feel like that's all over the world though.
killingourbraincells@reddit
I once had 12 squirrels in my walls. Could've burnt the house down. That would've been quite interesting.
Striking_Elk_6136@reddit
I think it's just a trope, like every building has ductwork you can crawl thru.
Temporary-Land-8442@reddit
Pretty sure I saw a video of people renting an air b&b and caught the owner opening the living room wall, from the inside, and was coming out to eat and shower when the guests weren’t there. Maybe I can find a link. It’s not typical but that was wild.
Proud-Delivery-621@reddit
There were a few instances of someone camping out in someone else's crawlspace/attic that entered popular culture, and they're probably just combining that idea with the idea of rats living in the walls for dramatic effect.
elphaba00@reddit
Phrogging
No-Function223@reddit
Yes and no. It depends on the house, like the era it was built, is it cookie cutter from a developer or self built? Has it had anything added or removed from the original build? That kinda thing. The older the house the less likely it is to follow specific guidelines like wall depth. More modern houses tend to have thinner walls than those built a hundred or 200 years ago for example. Renovations can also leave pretty large gaps as well. So it just depends on the house.
lil_GiGi_420@reddit
There's a term for this. It's called Phrogging. There's a documentary show about it (Phrogging: Hider in my House). Pretty creepy, but it's not common.
Sad_Air_1501@reddit
It’s common in horror movies, not so much in real life
joepierson123@reddit
Maybe a squirrel
brn1001@reddit
A squirrel maybe.
North_Artichoke_6721@reddit
Some larger older homes have been converted into multiple apartments, and sometimes due to the layouts, there might be a small void that could possibly fit a petite human being, provided they didn’t need to move around.
There is usually insulation and studs and wiring inside walls that would prevent anything larger than a rat from moving about.
pokematic@reddit
Average, no, but there is old architecture where there is space in the walls. If the house was built during prohibition it is not unlikely for there to be false walls for bootlegging.
LtKavaleriya@reddit
“Not unlikely” ~ Very unlikely, but not impossible. Though much like how every pre-1861 house was magically “part of the Underground Railroad” if they find any weird voids, usually such spaces are the result of weird remodels and not intended for hiding either runaways or booze
Maronita2025@reddit
Well, I used to work in a funeral which was within a house. The owner of the funeral home lived in the upper portion of the house. It was a family business, and I was essentially the only non-family member that worked for them. They had all gone on a cruise in the Mediterranean Sea and I was freaking out as I heard very, very loud noises in the walls. So loud, I knew it could NOT be rats. I was freaking out. My boss happened to call me from the Sea of Turkey as someone from our state on the ship happened to pass away and the ship could NOT move until the body was off the ship. He therefore called me to inform me that the deceased was flying into the airport and on what flight. He had asked me to make arrangement to have it picked up; which I did. I mentioned to him what was freaking me out, and he laughed. He said I guess I never told you the house was built around the time of slavery and the walls were passageways for the slaves. He said today they are used by the company who brings in the caskets/coffins into the funeral home. The noise that I heard was the company bringing in caskets/coffins into an area of the funeral home not accessible from the area I worked in. lol.
Gullible-Apricot3379@reddit
Not without construction for the purpose, and it’s hard to believe anyone could do that without the person living there noticing something was off.
Slightly more plausible that someone could create a passage or a closet or something. I have two bedrooms that share a wall, and the closets are on the shared wall. If the previous owners had taken a couple of feet from each to carve out a 3x4 space, there’s a reasonable chance I wouldn’t have noticed. Though I still think I would, because I measured for shelves in both rooms.
B_A_Beder@reddit
Maybe a rat or a cat? But not a man
Not_Campo2@reddit
Average homes no, but in really old homes (and this is American old so only over 100 years old) it has happened before. Typically more of their being butler passages inbetween the walls that were forgotten, or rooms that were walled off and forgotten. There have been a few instances of homeless or crazy people living in these spaces and getting found after they were there for a long time
Dave_A480@reddit
If the something is mice or yellow jackets it's possible....
Other than that, no....
a11encur1@reddit
Yes- our walls are hollow- just wide enough for a rat, mouse, or small cat or possum to live in.
imthe5thking@reddit
No. Walls are usually only 3.5 to 4 inches thick, filled with insulation. And interior walls are about the same thickness, no insulation. But even if you were to be able to get inside the walls, you’d have to be extremely thin, and you’d only have 16 inches left and right to move before you run into another stud.
Otherwise-OhWell@reddit
No
CantHostCantTravel@reddit
I think you’re reading too much into this. A human wouldn’t be able to “live in the walls” of a typical American house, no. Not even heavily-insulated houses in colder states.
Sounds like the guy was just spitballing any or whatever half-way rational explanation for hearing voices.
abhainn13@reddit
Oh, sure! Squirrels. We’d get squirrels in the attic. They do scramble around a bit but once you know they’re squirrels they aren’t scary.
shibby3388@reddit
No, it’s not. Think critically.
Every few years there might be a news story about someone being caught living in the attic of a house that’s not theirs.
gothiclg@reddit
Daniel LaPlate did it but he’s the only known case. It’s really hard to do now.
Evening_Eagle425@reddit
Most houses are 2x4 built, so no...
Interesting (to me) story though, unused to work doing blueprints, and we'd often do remodels/additions/etc. in order to do that, we had to build out the existing section changing, or often multiple sections. We had this house in an average neighborhood, a bit in the older side, with an old school mason fireplace right in the middle. The guy who owned it worked in a bank and was very average seeming.
We ran the numbers in his house, but none of it was coming together quite right. A second trip we ran the entire house, and went back to work on it. We managed to get it set right, and there was this massive area around the fireplace, far too big for the old style mason fireplaces.
Turns out, this dude was filthy rich. He kept the front of the old fireplace but had it upgraded which gave him some extra space, then shelving and some other wall work gave him a safe room/wealth storage area behind a bookshelf access point. You'd never know it was there.
That was intentionally an area to be in the house and nobody would know.
lefactorybebe@reddit
No, they could not. Even beyond the fact that the walls are too narrow, there's also wooden vertical studs every 16" that run from floor to ceiling, and usually (excluding balloon framed houses) there are wood horizontal beams/plates at the top and bottom of all walls. They'd be confined to a 16" wide, 4" deep cavity that doesn't go higher than one floor.
Someone could live in an attic or basement, but not the walls. I've personally never heard someone say that! Animals can live in the walls though lol.
Normal_Occasion_8280@reddit
Usually squirrels or rats.
the_real_JFK_killer@reddit
Not realistically. Walls are typically filled with insulation. I guess someone could hollow a wall out, but itd need to be an unusually thick wall.
Attics and crawlspaces however...
stiletto929@reddit
Some bonus rooms/attic rooms have cramped space where someone could theoretically live. Extremely unlikely however.
needsmorequeso@reddit
Not the average American home, but The Denver Spider-Man was a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Edward_Coneys
I suspect this could have happened in a range of locales with older houses with weird crawl spaces, and it’s not a uniquely American thing.
mustang6172@reddit
It's a mouse!
Or a rat, or a snake, whatever.
thesweetestberry@reddit
My home has a hidden space for someone to hide behind the wall. My husband I can fit back there comfortably. I have no idea why it’s there because we don’t open the panel to the space except to show people.
virtual_human@reddit
My parents had termites living in their walls. Many of the walls are 2x4s so only 3.5 inches of space, though I have one wall that is 2x6s so 5.5 inches, so I don't think anyone is that thin. I'm sure there are some houses with spaces in them tht people can fit in. Then there are crawl spaces and attics.
bangbangracer@reddit
Unless that someone is as small as the squirrel that keeps getting in my garage, no.
WackyCoo@reddit
There was once a murderer who hid from police and the family by going into the walls but for the most part no, our walls are not designed to have people living in the walls and most times this is brought up they hid in the walls until they are alone to do what they want to do
xxtankmasterx@reddit
Not newer American homes... Usually the real stories are about either old buildings or buildings with attics or external basement access.
Lugbor@reddit
Not typically, no. The most you'd get is rats, or maybe a raccoon. There are some (exceedingly few) houses that were built with secret passages in the walls, where someone could live if the conditions were just right, but those are in the extreme minority.
nevadapirate@reddit
Even the best houses in America only have about 6 inch thick walls... Unless there are secret passages in the walls between rooms. So not at all likely.