I love that we have FRTs for our guns but...this kinda stuff needs to stop

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He's not even a politician yet but he's already got the politician's skill of not using the correct terminology with firearms. Pretty sure he's made plenty of videos about this topic in the past calling people out for it.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

In the video they just keep saying oh look it's just like a machine gun!!!

Jesus Christ

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twobroke2play@reddit

I turned off the video when he started doing that. I can’t understand why he would do something so bone headed

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fordag@reddit

I can’t understand why he would do something so bone headed

Because he is a bone head.

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LynxusRufus@reddit

Because he has sold out. Anything for clicks.

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antariusz@reddit

I guess he will win his next election, wonder how much it cost (other than his soul)

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Field-brotha-no-mo@reddit

Yep. He has his MG collection and he’s doing this because FRTs are making a lot of his content irrelevant. He wants a ban. Better for his bottom line. Money. Money. Money.

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Terrible_Detective45@reddit

Or he's a narcissistic idiot, as he's shown throughout his entire career.

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Dung_Beetle_2LT@reddit

Name checks out

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YaBoiRook@reddit

Yeah. Brandon was awesome before and during/shortly after covid. But the past couple years he's sold the fuck out and its gross. His videos are dogwater most of the time now. Just constant ads and promotions.

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direwolf106@reddit

That’s kinda the point. The machine gun was defined by mechanism not by result. It gets the result working within the legal definition.

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vexingpresence_@reddit

yeah i mean, saying that FRTs are "like machineguns" isnt incorrect, they have the exact same end result, just a different method of achieving said end result.

At the end of the day it is the same category.

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kkaaoossuu@reddit

Anything for views

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FawxyVentures@reddit

He's said time and time again that he dumbs stuff down to where the lay person will understand what things are. This is so that people that dont know anything about FRTs will click on the video and he can explain it. Otherwise the person new to this stuff would overlook the thumbnail not knowing what an FRT is.

He said he wants to educate, not just post random "look at me" videos.

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clientnotfound@reddit

gif

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ThirdHoleHank92@reddit

Not surprising YouTubers use click bait headlines.

Hes a firearms manufacturer, im sure he knows the difference between a machine gun and frt

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anothercarguy@reddit

He literally discussed it in the video and closed it with saying that it is proof we will push back against their infringements

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EternalMage321@reddit

If anyone actually watched the video, he made it clear that it isn't an ACTUAL machine gun, but it does feel like one. Basically a "we have machine gun at home" but it doesn't suck.

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clientnotfound@reddit

And he's criticized politicians in the past for their poor word choices when it comes to firearms and here he is doing it.

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WeakerThanYou@reddit

NO NO NO NO it's different when he does it. because it's him.

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No_Promises7@reddit

I understand the sentiment, and completely agree with you in that sense that he should know better, but fucking around for almost a decade on a single project gun while selling a handful of poorly made Lee Armory AKs does not make you a firearms manufacturer. He uses his SOT as a means to get toys that others can't for (you guessed it) his youtube videos.

The dude is just a youtuber.

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vividlyvivids@reddit

So true

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N5tp4nts@reddit

it's fuckin clickbait. he's typically very specific with his language.

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listenstowhales@reddit

I saw a cut of him talking about policy a few months ago. Dude is objectively fucking clueless on almost every possible issue the country is facing.

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ours@reddit

No wonder he tried to run a political career. He checks all the boxes.

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Username7239@reddit

It's a product of his environment. He grew up ultra wealthy in New York. No one (except security and PD) has guns except one or two shotguns kept at second homes upstate.

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Deserter15@reddit

He grew up in North Carolina, near Fort Bragg, with two military vet parents.

You're just making up nonsense.

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h0bb1tm1ndtr1x@reddit

Yeah, he got lost in the sauce a while ago. He's just another greedy content creator with clickbait content and titles.

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Dubaku@reddit

Why is everyone here acting like FRT's were some kinda big secret that he just exposed to everyone? They're pretty well known in the gun community, and the feds and politicians are definitely aware of them already. Yet there are bunch of people in this thread that are acting like this is the final straw that will get them banned.

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fordag@reddit

I suspect it's like pistol braces. People kept asking for ATF opinion letters on them until it reached a point where the ATF said no more of this.

People need to learn to shut the fuck up and enjoy what they're doing quietly without the need to post it everywhere and repeatedly ask if it's legal or not.

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thepersonbrody@reddit

They act as if there wasn't already dozens of videos and shorts about TX22s with FRTs mag dumping.

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Dubaku@reddit

Fr. I think part of it is just redditors looking for an excuse to be angry at him since he's le evil republican. But a lot of this thread is just people making up absurd hypotheticals to get worked up about. Like they think this is what's going to bring FRTs into view for the ATF, as if they haven't already tried going after them.

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He11marine24678@reddit

Yep, and Oregon already outlawed them since September 25th.

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anothercarguy@reddit

CA outlawed them like 10+ years ago with the gatling style trigger law

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Tacticalberry@reddit

its really iffy but yeah basically

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Corked1@reddit

It's not the gun community that's the problem, it's the bottom quintile of the population that will ruin it for everyone when videos like this show up in their algorithm.

Anti gun laws are all based on emotion and fast pew invokes bad emotions in normies.

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Dubaku@reddit

Do you really think people like that would watch a video of an FRT and not walk away with the opinion that they should be banned? Like you said "fast pew invokes bad emotions in normies". It doesn't matter what he did or said in the video, they kind of people you're afraid of would want them banned regardless.

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Corked1@reddit

The bottom quintile of dumb asses and criminals watching the video is what I was referring to. When criminals start using these in crimes and the media starts pushing a narrative, that's when the normies and politicians will have a problem with them.

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Dubaku@reddit

Again, it's not like FRTs were some big secret. You're the exact kind of person I was talking about in my original comment, where you think that one dude making a video on them is going to have some butterfly effect that will directly lead to them being banned. Herrera may have a big channel, but if he was anywhere near as influential as you people seem to think, he would have won his election.

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ShotgunEd1897@reddit

Those laws feed off of low resistance. That's how we shit like the NFA and beyond.

Being free is a constant fight.

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Corked1@reddit

Well, yes you are correct, but there's low resistance because most of the population isn't into freedom and guns like the audience you are talking to. There would be low resistance to banning FRTs at the congressional level, especially after a media publicized event.

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red_alert24@reddit

that's what the hell i just said to a friend. "oh shit, it's about to gain some traction, not good"

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ytman@reddit

What? Its not like its going away anytime soon.

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

That’s what we said last time. Someone just got a machine gun charge for trying to install a 3rd frt in a rented machine gun at a range in Virginia while he was a resident of DC. And the range snitched him out.

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fordag@reddit

trying to install a 3rd frt

Well three triggers in one gun does seem excessive.

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mcbergstedt@reddit

Was it ever proven that he put an actual FRT into it instead of a drop in sear?

Regardless, this case will probably make FRTs illegal in VA. They are more than likely considered “trigger activators”. But there’s no precedent for FRTs to be grouped with it so we’ll see what happens

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Buttoshi@reddit

For some reason I thought it was already illegal. Are binary triggers illegal?

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mcbergstedt@reddit

By name they are, but “trigger activator” is such a broad term if they wanted to get you for something you’d be spending $$$$$ in court trying to fight it.

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CrashingTiger@reddit

Seriously. With a creative enough prosecutor, they could call your finger a "trigger actuator".

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ytman@reddit

When the government does illegal things you challenge it.

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silentsinner-@reddit

Not everyone lives a life that welcomes something as interesting as challenging the federal government. You might have the time and the means but the vast majority of people do not.

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ytman@reddit

Well we better get used to it.

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silentsinner-@reddit

Get used to what?

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ytman@reddit

Contesting illegal governmental powers.

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lethalmuffin877@reddit

I love the IDEA of what you’re saying, but have you ever confronted the federal government?

We’re better off leaving our fight in the hands of our defenders like GOA, FPC, people and organizations that have the money and resources to fight back.

The more we keep flirting with disaster the harder we make it for them and it spreads out their resources on other cases you know?

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ytman@reddit

I'm not saying how you fight it I'm saying you always fight it, in every form and every location.

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lethalmuffin877@reddit

Amen brother, I’m with you there

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LetsGatitOn@reddit

Okay well, there is plenty of government overreach going on right now. Get out there and contest!

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ytman@reddit

Don't be dumb about how you do it. Government has means to power even if illegitimate. Don't be dumb. Be loving and careful.

Fight with radical optimism, and concern for each other and our rights.

Build community that protects and lifts your fellows up.

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silentsinner-@reddit

Again, not many of us can afford to live lives that interesting. There is no getting used to it. We are struggling to get by without extra burdens.

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Brilliant_Wealth_433@reddit

Go ahead a be a subservient slave peasant. When they ban all your guns make sure to turn them in without a struggle to...

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silentsinner-@reddit

What exactly are you accomplishing to be so self righteous?

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CaptainSmegman@reddit

To think our ancestors traveled on a boat for months for a chance to build a cabin out of sticks.

They never saw Netflix and doordash coming in a million years

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Wulf1939@reddit

To be fair a decent amount were running from their existing governments.

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CaptainSmegman@reddit

To be fair there's nowhere else to run now

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Wulf1939@reddit

Antarctica, land of the free

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silentsinner-@reddit

They didn't see pricks using their image to justify whatever political nonsense the future would conjure either. Life is hard without Netflix or door dash.

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ytman@reddit

Sadly its probably a terroism charge now if we were to tar and feather.

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JBCTech7@reddit

this guy fucks.

and has some kids and a house and wife.

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evilcrusher2@reddit

I can't afford the other option either of even more burdens.

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CajunTorpedoman@reddit

Go go gadget FPC!

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AssassinateThePig@reddit

Yeah it’s actually pretty simple. You just take off one of your gauntlets and slap the federal government across the face with it, then they know they’ve been challenged by an equal and that they don’t have dominion over you and everyone/thing you know and love.

Next, you just have to piss down the barrel of an ATF agent’s Glock while maintaining eye contact.

I will admit though, it helps a tiny bit if you have several million dollars and are independently wealthy, because you’ll definitely get fired just for being charged, even if your salary was enough to pay the lawyer on, and it’s not.

s/ Seriously though, I know it’s nice to believe that shit like justice and fairness matters, but it really only applies to high profile questions of morality. Fringe cases, marginalized people, these routinely slip through the cracks.

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ytman@reddit

What is up with this doomerism? What happened to Americans? Shit.

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

And there lies the issue. It’s hard to challenge the government. Especially this administration who has forced gun clubs to hand over the name and addresses of their members with a forced/leveraged court order.

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RivenEsquire@reddit

This is literally false. The government did not ask for the lists, joined an agreed motion to amend the order to not require the lists be provided, and the court has since amended the order.

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

It seems you’re right they TRIED and thankfully FAILED. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that they still tried.

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RivenEsquire@reddit

No, they didn't try. Read the article you cited. The court inserted the requirement to provide the lists because, by definition, those lists are who are covered by the injunction. Since there are no nationwide injunctions any longer, the only way for it to extend to FPC members is to include them in the relief, but there is nothing defining who falls into that class of persons. Because of this uncertainty, the court inserted that the list be provided in the order for purposes of injunction enforcement. The DOJ, at no point, requested this be part of the conditions for the injunction, and promptly joined with the FPC for it to be corrected by filing a motion with the Fifth Circuit which has now been granted. The DOJ did not ever ask for the list and the entire requirement to provide the list was a misunderstanding of the court of the relief being requested by the parties.

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

I will research this more and get back to you, but if I’m wrong I’m wrong and I’m willing to take accountability for that.

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RivenEsquire@reddit

I appreciate your willingness to engage on this. Just trying to make sure correct information is being spread (for the record, the government asking for lists is totally not cool, so I'm with you there that it would be unacceptable if it had occurred).

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

Alright I’ll admit it, I was wrong. Thank you for informing me/correcting me and making me dedicate more time along to this and making me seek out more learning resources about this topic. I’ll edit my original comment sorry. And yea dude we’re all on the same side here. I appreciate you.

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fieldy213@reddit

I appreciate true factual information

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

The Government forced the DOJ to source

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SteveHamlin1@reddit

The DOJ didn't ask the Court to demand lists, and the DOJ objected to the Court's demand for lists when the Court issued its order.

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ytman@reddit

Need to normalize criminal charges against government officials who abuse their station to deprive our rights illegally.

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SteveHamlin1@reddit

Even with your edit, you're still wrong. The DOJ never tried to get names, the Judge included that in a court order that the DOJ didn't author, and the DOJ objected to the Court Order as soon as that court order was issued.

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Knot_a_porn_acct@reddit

Neato, the moron in chief still banned a fucking stock because he felt bad. Don’t forget “take the guns first” blah blah blah. This administration is no more friendly to your 2nd amendment rights than the previous one.

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SteveHamlin1@reddit

and Reddit, apparently.

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SteveHamlin1@reddit

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/s/pbSbjqc6e9

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IamMrT@reddit

If you believe anything that comes out of a liberal’s mouth, I have a bridge to sell you

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Pro_2A_Guy@reddit

This has been debunked too many times. I'll explain it again like you're a 12 year old. The judge added on the list of gun owners to be supplied and Pam Bondi, et al, told him to get fucked, they do not want a list.

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ReefkeeperSteve@reddit

I find it hard to believe this talking point being parroted by liberals everywhere isn’t intentional misinformation.

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Weary_Archer2491@reddit

Yes I edited what I said to correct myself.

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Buttoshi@reddit

What range

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bitofgrit@reddit

Not sure, but it couldn't have been too far.

budum tiss

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Buttoshi@reddit

That was a negligent discharge, sir

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DrunkenArmadillo@reddit

I believe he is being charged with DC crimes. Federally, the judge in NAGR declared that the ATF's interpretation of FRTs as machineguns is illegal and they cannot enforce it, and the DOJ dropped the appeal to the Fifth Circuit. Their settlement with Rare Breed agrees to abide by that ruling.

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Mossified4@reddit

Let your guard down? that's not at all what you described, the guy you describe was being a complete fool and literally asking for it.

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Slothful-Sprint0903@reddit

Old bumpstock bannin bone spurs

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Throwaway74829947@reddit

Yep, SCOTUS is currently pro-2A... until daddy Donald tells them to not be, at which point it all gets flushed down the toilet.

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ZeroPointSpecter@reddit

SCOTUS has already made several rulings that have gone directly against what the Administration had wanted. So, Daddy Donald clearly has no power over them.

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wrecklass@reddit

Well better than having the fragging party that never ever saw a gun control law it didn't like.

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anothercarguy@reddit

Just need 200,000 people to buy them and they're common use

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juggarjew@reddit

Its only a matter of time before some asswipe commits some atrocity with one and gets them banned or at least gets enough bipartisan support to get them banned. We all need to remember that Trump OK'd the bump stock ban. you can argue that the courts fixed that. But what the courts can not fix , is a brand new black and white law enacted by Congress and signed by the president banning FRTs, if that happens, then shows over for good. I feel like its only a matter of time with the amount of attention these are getting.

Lets be real, they do in fact increase a guns cyclic rate equal to or even higher than some machine guns, they are de facto doing the same thing, even if legally they are not. The end result is exactly the same or greater fire rate, which is why machine guns are banned at all.

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StupidDumbMoron69@reddit

No, it needs to continue. Machinegun (or basically machinegun) ownership needs to be normalized and promoted if we EVER want to regain our full constitutional 2A rights.

Is it “risky”? Does it make some people (the right people) uncomfortable? Absolutely. But we cant be squeamish about this sort of thing.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

And things are happening. The NFA is being challenged in a whole currently however right now this is close to the sun we can get.

NFA items have become more common now than they ever have.

But these aren't machine guns. Do not call them machine guns. It's the only reason we have them in the first place.

Yes, the NFA is unconstitutional but we can at least enjoy these for the time being until we take it down.

Because keep in mind the ATF still considers these machine guns so they can come out ban them and then throw you in jail

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AtomicPhantomBlack@reddit

Legally, it's not a machine gun. Practically... C'mon on. Call a spade a spade.

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vexingpresence_@reddit

nah ur right, these people in the comments section are wild downvoting you 🤣🤣🤣

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clientnotfound@reddit

Do you love it when politicians call a spade fully semi automatic?

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

No, words have meaning.

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airmantharp@reddit

Legality is the difference between your pupper getting shot…

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JDCam47@reddit

If these legal FRT, Super Safeties, Bump stocks, etc are considered similar as illegal auto sears/key cards/switches ie “machine guns”, then that will increase the total of machine guns into the millions if not 10’s of millions.

Supreme Court has stated in Heller that to ban “arms” it has to be “dangerous and unusual”. Weapons are inherently dangerous so what is unusual?

The Supreme Court stated in Caetano that stuns guns are not considered unusual for the Massachusetts ban on them. They numbered stun guns in at around 200,000.

Now we have a baseline number for 2A protection on most weapons. This might be why the community needs to challenge the narrative. They have legally put themselves into a corner to challenge the NFA. They just got rid of the taxes on everything except machine guns.

Supreme Court states the NFA is constitutional because of article 1 allowing congressional powers to tax. The registry is for tax purposes.

WE ALL KNOW WHY THE NFA EXISTS AND IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

But the Supreme Court backed it up through legitimate claims of congressional powers even though that’s bullshit. So yea it’s time to challenge them on this unconstitutional horeshit.

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MattHack7@reddit

He does say in the video why it isn’t a machine gun. Making FRTs more common and more popular would be great.

Sure the visibility could cause more states to ban them but that’s the same argument people have said about suppressors for years.

“Shhhhh don’t say how easy it is to get a suppressor or they’ll change the law!”

Now suppressors are more common and destigmatized than they ever have been.

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ChrisLS8@reddit

Well the ATF making items illegal isnt their wheelhouse. They are an executive administration, they dont make laws

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qtstance@reddit

Congress gave the ATF delegated authority under the administrative procedure act.

So no the ATF does not make the overarching law but they do interpret what the law means.

Congress say machines are illegal.

ATF then has the power to decide what is and isn't a machine gun, their interpretation and then they have the power to enforce their interpretation.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

Correct however they are a rogue organization.

They accused that one guy of "engaged in the business" selling guns and then proceeded to execute a violent raid and kill him.

They are lawless and rules don't matter to them.

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myturn19@reddit

They’ve had 80+ years to do it. If it actually mattered, they wouldn’t let it happen.

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wrecklass@reddit

Yes, exactly why Roe v Wade was set in concrete. "An established fact."

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brachus12@reddit

the challenges are more interesting now because their “But it’s a TAX!!!” defense vaporized when the fee dropped to $0

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myturn19@reddit

Cool story. Tell me when the Supreme Court take up an AWB. One of many that have been sitting out there for years.

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Username7239@reddit

Amen from MA. The first circuit loves to toss around and deny gun rights cases

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weredragon357@reddit

3rd Circuit heard AWB appeal En Banc This morning. 8 republican appointees, 6 democrat appointees. If they vote partisan we finally get a Circuit split that the Supremes need to correct.

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Brian-88@reddit

Also our state and circuit courts slow roll the fuck out of these cases. It took a YEAR for the Mag Ban judge in Washington to submit her ruling.

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PaperbackWriter66@reddit

I think you're both correct, frankly.

We need to normalize machine gun ownership so we can show that "machine guns" (however defined) are "in common use" per Heller.....AND ALSO we need to widely proliferate FRTs on the downlow, quick and quiet, so that way they can get in common use before the ATF bans them and prevents them from ever becoming "common."

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

The NFA is being challenged in a whole

No its being challenged as applied to suppressors and SBRs. The case doesnt challenge machine guns or explosives. Which is good because that would torpedo it.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

I've heard there's a new one going for in full and two for SBRs/suppressors

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GhostBoosters018@reddit

What's going on with tbr NFA because I havent seen any news about it in months

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HiThisIsTheATF@reddit

I want the nfa overturned wholesale, but I’d put money that the best we get is SBRs, SBSs, AOWs, and suppressors moving from Title 2 to Title 1. They’re keeping machine guns on the nfa until the courts actually realize that “shall not be infringed” part is pretty straightforward and clear.

Text and tradition is great and all….. but it could have been so much better. The fact that the Supreme Court still says “yeah, but some infringements are okay” makes me think nothing changing anytime soon for machine guns.

If that means frts and super safeties can stay, then two options:

People get charged and it’s cemented as not a machine gun and legal.
People get charged and it’s called a machine gun. Machine guns are then either legal or they’re not.

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DrunkenArmadillo@reddit

They are legally enjoined from considering them machine guns.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

No they are not. That agreement ONLY affects rare breed and they still consider them MGs but they aren't going to enforce it.

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DrunkenArmadillo@reddit

NAGR v Garland absolutely does not only affect Rare Breed. Read the ruling. It's not hard to find or understand.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

I would not hold my breath on that agreement.

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RocketstoSpace@reddit

I love guns but I honestly really don't want the next mass shooter to have access to an lmg or some shit. Or some wacked out dumbass spraying his entire neighborhood fighting off a home invasion.

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Dung_Beetle_2LT@reddit

Worst kinda fudd

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RocketstoSpace@reddit

0 common sense

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Redrum_71@reddit

No, it needs to continue. Machinegun (or basically machinegun) ownership needs to be normalized and promoted if we EVER want to regain our full constitutional 2A rights.

It's amazing how many people don't even realize it was until '86. This needs to be reversed, as do all the soft-on-crime policies that have been festering for the past few decades. Barely half the states have capital punishment anymore, and in some of those it's been rendered nonfunctional.

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TheHancock@reddit

Hell yeah! Based af!

I mean, I know I’m biased with my flair and all… but I’d gladly let anyone and everyone own a machine gun and no longer be “special” if it meant freedoms are restored!

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deathlokke@reddit

This exactly. "In common use" anyone?

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MetalMedley@reddit

I promise, no judge or politician actually gives a shit what's in common use.

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ImJustStealingMemes@reddit

Else everyone would have shat all over Biden and his "9mm blows the lungs out of the body" and anyone with the average AR-15 rants.

It is THE American rifle. Both affordable and expensive. All sorts of configurations (well, aside from length and brrrt because the ATF will eliminate your dog if you slightly scrape the front making it technically 15.99" or even think about the brrrt). Easy to use.

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

"Common use for lawful purposes". But either way an FRT is not a machine gun, so woulf not help on that front.

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deathlokke@reddit

Shall not be infringed isn't enough for you guys huh? Damn, I didn't realize how many bootlickers there are here.

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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit

Did you want to have an actual discussion on the legal framework and statues that are the law in this country, or do you want to circlejerk about what you wish they were?

Im sorry I had assumed the former.

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No_Promises7@reddit

Nope, literally not how the common use argument works at all. An FRT does not make a machine gun so there's no benefit to common use. Any attempts at pretending they are similar enough will just make FRTs illegal to own.

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CraaZero@reddit

Once it becomes COMMON common use, NFA and Hughes amendment has a greater chance of going kaput.

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Itsivanthebearable@reddit

Some? The majority of Americans are uncomfortable with machine guns.

We may not like it, but we’re in the minority

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Drew1231@reddit

Yeah, it’s a vast majority too. Try telling the NPCs in the break room that you think civilians should own machine guns. You might as well suggest nuclear weapons.

This sort of rhetoric does help normalize machine guns, but it’s also how my blue state got a ban on FRTs passed with no grandfather clause.

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SovereignDevelopment@reddit

This. There are not only risks, but some of our guys e.g. Matt Hoover, et al are doing hard time for this. Let's not cast their sacrifice into vanity.

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IllustriousFile6404@reddit

It's crazy to me how these FRTs just popped up out of no where and people think they aren't going to eventually be treated as machine guns... I get It's slightly different than the definition of a machine gun just in terms of the physical function but it's essentially the same thing. It doesnt fit the ATF legal definition of automatic but it does fit the practical definition. You aren't consciously pulling the trigger once per round fired, I would challenge anyone to fire off an exact number of predetermined rounds... like take a mag loaded with 30 and shoot 13 without stopping, not 12 not 14, exactly 13. You hold your finger down and it continues to shoot automatically, its technically one continuous pull, and the trigger just automatically moves. It's hard to even describe an FRT without using the word automatically.

The best case scenario is they abolish the NFA and people can do what they want but I view these as a grey area and a matter of time before people start getting in trouble with them.

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FullmetalTaco23@reddit

Report his video.

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Dubaku@reddit

Why?

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FullmetalTaco23@reddit

Gets taken down and cannot be used in the future if they try to go after FRTs.

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Dubaku@reddit

If they're going after FRTs they're going after FRTs. The existence of one youtube video showing them off isn't going to change that. Are you also going to go and get people to report every other FRT video on youtube too?

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FullmetalTaco23@reddit

Not every FRT video on YT has an dum dum referring to them as 'machine guns'. Optics-wise, this video is a bad look for FRTs simply because of the language used when talking about them.

Thats why I suggested reporting it so it could get taken down. If its not a good idea, then by all means, disregard what I said and carry on.

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Dubaku@reddit

But every FRT video has them shooting what looks like a machine gun to the average person or disingenuous government lizard. But like I said before, this video getting taken down isn't going to stop them from going after FRTs. For one thing I'm pretty sure he uploads all his stuff to a subscription based platform anyway, so it getting taken off of youtube isn't going to stop anything.

This whole idea that just calling an FRT a machine gun is going to summon the feds to ban them like some kind of magic incantation is dumb. Everyone knows what the point of an FRT is. It's a creative way to get around the prohibition of machine guns. Believing that you're pulling one over on the government by not outright saying that shows that you're either very naive or very dumb.

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FullmetalTaco23@reddit

Videos and thumbnails like Brandon's are the ones the ATF looks at, then rules against that stuff, then everyone on the internet freaks out wondering why the stuff got banned and claims that the items totally weren't being used like that.

Same with the 100,000 people posting videos of them totally-not-shouldering their AR pistols with pistol braces.

At some point, if you rub the authorities nose in the shit of a loophole too much, they're going to close the loop hole. For once, just don't say the quiet part out loud.

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Dubaku@reddit

You're too late though. The ATF already tried saying they're machine guns. They're not stupid. They're well aware of what they are and why people are buying them, and it really bothers them that people have them. Whining about a video from a youtuber you don't like and brigadeing them with false reports isn't going to make the ATF forget about them.

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ReptillusMax@reddit

Nah. He compared FRTs to machine guns because that's the whole point of FRTs. They were made to be semi-auto compliant by the letter of the law but able to make the weapon fire almost as fast as a true machine gun. He explained this in the video and even showed the slow motion. The fact is that FRTs have had their days in court and were deemed completely legal despite the existing argument that it allows weapons to fire as fast as machine guns. The feds already knew this. So reporting this video sounds like you're just squeamish about machine guns like those liberal fudds.

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FullmetalTaco23@reddit

Or squeamish about FRTs getting banned.

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Operational_Opossum@reddit

Yet another transferable owner “protecting their investment”

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Bartman383@reddit

He has an SOT. I'd be shocked if he has a single transferrable.

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sadoproject@reddit

I get your stance, but "in common use" is a very important status, and exposure to a community that enjoys such things is a solid way to ensure these things are commonly used. Several folks at my local ranges have them, so common use is happening. Heck, might even get myself one, one of these days..

Better to have them in common use now while there is momentum than letting an opportunity slip away to later legislation.

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M00seNuts@reddit

Has "common use" actually saved anything from being banned outside of tazers in New York? Serious question - I'm not currently aware of this argument being used to materially assist in any case that took down an anti-2A gun law.

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sadoproject@reddit

The Bruen case and resulting decision has made "in common use" a legal metric by which constitutionality is evaluated.

An interesting read:

https://journals.law.harvard.edu/jlpp/the-relevance-of-in-common-use-after-bruen-jamie-g-mcwilliam/

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anothercarguy@reddit

Bruen was referencing Heller which is where common use first came up

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sadoproject@reddit

Was Heller as definitive as Bruen when it comes to that measure being accepted as a legal basis for constitutionality? I'm not as well versed as I could be on the subject.

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anothercarguy@reddit

Heller was as definitive as it was ignored, same with Bruen.

In Heller Scalia discusses Miller 1939 and discusses historical traditions in referenced footnote 25. He plainly said the militia would use weapons in common use and therefore they are protected.

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M00seNuts@reddit

"Text, history, and tradition" is wildly ambiguous. What is the threshold for "common use"? What percentage of americans own FRTs? I'll bet it's low enough for some judge to say they're not in common use... certainly nowhere near as common as tasers.

Again, the law doesn't mean what it says. It means what it can be interpreted to say.

I appreciate the link, though. Full disclosure: I haven't read it yet, but I will when I have some more time tomorrow and I'll get back to you.

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sadoproject@reddit

Common use hasn't been applied to FRTs (yet) as far as I'm aware.

But, it has been and is actively being used to fight magazine capacity bans, and so called "assault weapon" bans. I believe it is also mentioned in all three lawsuits currently aimed at the NFA. So as far as actual numbers go, something in the range of the current number of registered suppressors and SBR's would be a known data point, but I suspect far less than that would pass the test.

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anothercarguy@reddit

Yes, pistols in Heller

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

Yeah but as I said you can spread the word. PSR does it.

Just call them an FRT and show what they can do.

I'm all for everyone having one, if you have a semi auto it should have an FRT in it, the more the better.

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sadoproject@reddit

He could definitely have worded things better, no doubt. But, anybody on the outside looking in is going to draw that parallel regardless, so acknowledging it while maintaining the legal distinction between them isn't the worst thing that could be done.

It's not an inside joke or obscure club anymore. They're here, they're (not a) sear, get brrt with it.

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LtPatterson@reddit

You do know that they'll use this in some congressional testimony in the future to ban them. I can only hope he's in Congress for it. That would be deeply ironic. Fuck the ATF.

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ChaosRainbow23@reddit

Yeah, don't fucking advertise it. Make sure you call it by legal names.

This is gonna get more bans thrown around.

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Chris_Christ@reddit

The bit that bugs me is the thumbnail makes it look like that whole setup is 650 when just the trigger pack is 650. Whole gun is 3k+

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jeffh40@reddit

He's using a SS, not an FRT. SS can be bought all day for less than $200.

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Buttoshi@reddit

I don't understand the difference and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

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Chris_Christ@reddit

SS can be had for about 100 pretty easy. That’s not the important part. The whole grip assembly with the SS in it is about 650 with a SS already in it. That’s why he put 650 in the thumbnail.

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citizenscienceM@reddit

Yeah that's true but you still need components other than that and also a different lower for the MP5 because a standard navy pack (or any of the regular packs) can't readily accept those FCG parts or a SS.

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austinsutt@reddit

I’m not going to watch his video but can someone explain how that MP5 is only $650 or is it clickbait and the FRT is $650?

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hansolojazzcup@reddit

I assume all YT vids with "ONLY $____" are clickbait. I swear every Honest Outlaw video now is like "BEST 5 HANDGUNS UNDER $250 YOU CAN GET IN [insert date here]"

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austinsutt@reddit

I feel this. I was noticing the same about Honest Outlaw recently.

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Buttoshi@reddit

Yeah it's always you gotta be lucky with a deal.

What's the go-to site for price comparisons? Smga?

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TheHancock@reddit

All I can say is the FRTs I sell are $150-$250. Lol

(But we don’t have MP5 versions…)

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citizenscienceM@reddit

It's the whole lower and conversion kit that goes with it to be able to run the FRT in the MP5 as well as the FRT. It's not just plug and play drop ins like in the AR world.

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annonimity2@reddit

It's an ap5 replica with an otter creek can. If your absurdly good at bargain hunting used hardware, willing to fix some things, and absurdly patient, 650 might be doable but more likely the lower group with the frt was 650.

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clientnotfound@reddit

The lower + the SS is 650. There is absolutely no way you could get the AP5 for $650

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Redreddington0928@reddit

I wanna know where you can get a mp5sd clone for $650

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nVi2x@reddit

Brandon Herrera saying things like “if you didn’t tell me which one you gave me, I’d have never known” or “this is basically a machine gun” is annoying af. Videos like these with clickbait titles just attract more unwanted attention towards these. Let’s be honest with almost half the populations against it and constantly fighting, guns, let alone machines guns will never be “normalized” no matter how much we try to. This just draws more hysteria, kinda like how they use the “gun show loophole” in every argument.

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TigerJas@reddit

Not with your attitude.

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nVi2x@reddit

If my attitude changed anything I would have been all for it just like I am now and. It’s unfortunately the other majority of the population whose attitudes need to be changed which with the government “gun bad” propaganda haven been long lost to accept anything gun related. All this video looks like to them “people can now own assault rifles” and nothing more. They’re not gonna turn around to a video titled “The machine gun anyone can buy” and actually learn about it. These are the same people that fall for “fully semi-automatic”, “high capacity clips”, etc. If they would have put any effort to learning before arguing, they would have done so. We need a different approach to these people than shoving it in their faces and saying “what can you do about it?”

I just said how all this video will accomplish is spread mass hysteria give the ATF more fuel. It’s not like FRT’s are new and someone with Brandon Herrera’s audience reach, he doesn’t need to make this video 3-5 years too late when everyone in the firearm community and their grandpa’s already know about these. Who is he trying to give this info to? Especially with a clickbait title?

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JDCam47@reddit

If these legal FRT, Super Safeties, Bump stocks, etc are considered similar as illegal auto sears/key cards/switches ie “machine guns”, then that will increase the total of machine guns into the millions if not 10’s of millions.

Supreme Court has stated in Heller that to ban “arms” it has to be “dangerous and unusual”. Weapons are inherently dangerous so what is unusual?

The Supreme Court stated in Caetano that stuns guns are not considered unusual for the Massachusetts ban on them. They numbered stun guns in at around 200,000.

Now we have a baseline number for 2A protection on most weapons. This might be why the community needs to challenge the narrative. They have legally put themselves into a corner to challenge the NFA. They just got rid of the taxes on everything except machine guns.

Supreme Court states the NFA is constitutional because of article 1 allowing congressional powers to tax. The registry is for tax purposes.

WE ALL KNOW WHY THE NFA EXISTS AND IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

But the Supreme Court backed it up through legitimate claims of congressional powers even though that’s bullshit. So yea it’s time to challenge them on this unconstitutional horeshit.

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OtiWanKenob1@reddit

Machine gun clickbait aside. Where is he finding any mp5 clone for $650 much less an Mp5SD clone

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Human_Grass_9803@reddit

I ha e thw very same though, kewl Brandon likes a guna ccesory, doenst me we need to blast it across the web

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DannyBones00@reddit

The first time someone uses one of these in a mass shooting, the shit is going to hit the fan.

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TigerJas@reddit

No. We are beyond that, stop reacting to corporate medias as if they matter when they try to make a topic relevant.

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juggarjew@reddit

Brandon should know better, I guess he might have a different perspective as a SOT FFL 07 who can literally just make any machine gun he wants, so to him the FRT is more of a gimmick. But the average Joe, its freedom and a way to enjoy many the guns the way they were meant to be used and initially designed to be used. Brandon can just make more machine guns, or even buy factory made post samples in some cases (no law letter post samples). For the average joe, the only alternative are pre may 1986 transferable machine guns which start at about $9000 (Reising M50) and rapidly go up from there.

So the average joe has a lot more to lose than he does, which is why clickbait youtube videos like this are harmful to the cause overall.

Make no mistake, dem lawmakers and pearl clutchers are watching videos like this and seething, waiting for their time to strike, the pendulum ALWAYS goes back the other direction and its incredibly important that we dont give them easy ammo to say "look, see, its a machine gun , even an 07 FFL SOT is advertising them as such!"

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soapy5@reddit

The state allows criminals to have actual machine guns while trying to ban semiautomatics for the lawabiding. Quit your pearl clutching, and realize that keeping quiet and attempting to toe some vague bureaucratic line will do jack shit at keeping the 2A alive. The NFA must be repealed in the next 3 years or you can kiss your gun rights goodbye. Challenging it via common use is better than just shutting up

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MarryYouInMinecraft@reddit

Demoralizing gun grabbers by rubbing their nose in the futility of their efforts is way more effective and important than politely trying to convince them through optics cucking.

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Little_Whippie@reddit

Brandon on his way to ruin it for the rest of us bc he already can legally manufacture and own machine guns

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StopBanningMeAlright@reddit

YouTubers are kinda fucking annoying honestly. They are the ones that fuck up the market as well.. Milsurps being an example.

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Legacy1776@reddit

This will help the govt build a case for making them illegal for sure. They used YouTube videos in court to support their arguments against bumpstocks, pistol braces, and other accessories. They will for sure use videos like this to say that FRTs, SS, etc are machine guns. It will be held up in the courts for a few years in which time no one will be allowed to purchase or use them at the very least.

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citizenscienceM@reddit

Thought the exact same thing with the way he started the video, like damn bro, your choice of wording here is not great. I feel like he could have/should have AT LEAST started with the educational portion first. I was watching the video thinking to myself that I could see this being used in court. Not a good look.

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High_Anxiety_1984@reddit

I like Bramson Herrera, but this nonsense isn't doing any fucking good for the 2A community or the legality of an FRT.

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f0rcedinducti0n@reddit

Brandon is a YouTuber first and every thing else second. This thumbnail will drive more clicks... If his video precipitates a response or contributes to one, all the better from his perspective because it will generate more content for him.

Guntoobers are not our friends.

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tfsblatlsbf@reddit

Jingoistic dipshit doesn't realize he is scuttling his own grift, more at 11.

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TigerJas@reddit

You. Are. Part. Of. The. Problem.

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

nah, I think the real issue are the stupid class traitor wannabes roleplaying as bougie fucks. (it's you, you're the problem.)

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TitleFightEnj0yer@reddit

I mean let’s stop beating around the bush, an frt does make your gun equivalent to a machine gun , I’m not saying it functions the same. I think they should be legal but as an NFA item

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Dung_Beetle_2LT@reddit

The NFA shouldn’t exist. If you think so go ahead and turn in your weapons and join the next no kings protest.

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A_Queer_Owl@reddit

Brandon Herrera just needs to stop in general.

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Qu3stion_R3ality1750@reddit

Man, people have turned on Brandon Herrera fast on reddit. Should I be shocked? I've always been indifferent towards him.

I get the sentiment, but we shouldn't act like this is going to be the straw that break the camel's back. Make no mistake, they want to ban ALL guns. They're going to use any and every justification in their book to push for it

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TigerJas@reddit

“Many people on Reddit” this is overwhelmingly full of hard leftists, even -sometimes specially- in gun subs.

Just see all the “we can’t win, stop fighting” posts above.

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GullibleRisk2837@reddit

No, it doesn't need to stop. Cheap ways that civilians can increase their defensive capabilities needs to be touted as much as $6.99 Domino's pizza lmao

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unlock0@reddit

This is like calling sporting rifles “assault weapons”.

I’ve lost all respect for this guy.

And all you saying jerking about how it’s the same as the illegal thing, I respect you as much as reporters saying “assault weapons”.

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Special-Steel@reddit

Brandon is a click whore. He cares about himself. This is good example of his self promotion trumping what’s good for the community.

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richardjared960@reddit

He just cares about clickbait and views at this point

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N5tp4nts@reddit

What?! A youtuber is interested in promoting his youtube channel? I'm shocked! Shocked I say!

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tyler111762@reddit

alright lets be frank. its a machine gun. it might not legally be a machine gun. but its a machinegun. is it lightly more complicated to use than just "hold the trigger down"? sure.

but lets call a spade a spade.

is it politically smart to call a spade a spade? no. probably not. but take it from someone who was raised by a gun owner with the "the less they think about us the less they will fuck with us" mindset, it doesn't work.

Be loud. Be proud.

See flair for details of what happens when you think security by obscurity will work for you.

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bmk2k@reddit

Yeah i saw the video when I got home from work. Wtf is he doing?

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ReptillusMax@reddit

Isn't that the whole point of FRTs? It allows you to fire a weapon almost as fast as a true machine gun while being legally compliant as a semi-auto with only a single round fired every trigger pull. I do not see any issue with comparing it to a real machine gun since it's completely legal by the legal definition, and have had a presiding legal precedent.

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Dracofrost@reddit

...okay but where can you find one of those for only $650 instead of the $1500 I see most everywhere?

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Rustyclam@reddit

Yea hes a shill for the company suing FRT. Thats the reason he made the video in the first place. Worst guntuber on youtube. I extremely dislike that guy.

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Probate_Judge@reddit

Meh.

This sub has been on about FRT's for a while. They're not exactly a secret.

The people who want to ban shit want to ban much much less, like guns in general, and don't need a video like this to keep trying. They've been at this for decades before even the internet was prevalent or even invented...

Meanwhile, the people interested in guns talk about what interests them, and now some make videos of varying quality saying various stupid shit. Doesn't really make things worse.

The cat was out of the bag before this video came out. If they're going to come after FRTs, they're going to, it's just a matter of when.

Policing our own content and language is really only so much infighting, if not intentional subversion.

The reddit post comes across as concern trolling and/or paranoia.

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MastuhWaffles@reddit (OP)

It's not really policing our own language. FRT is FRT, machine gun is machine gun. They are very different legal items.

You are correct, they will be coming for them, this admin or the next. But in the meantime this has been our greatest push to dethrone the NFA we have had in a long time.

But for someone like Brandon who as said has gone after politicians and people for using incorrect language and making shit up, throwing out a thumbnail and captions doing the same is not cool. But lets not give anything to feed the other side.

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Probate_Judge@reddit

It's not really policing our own language. FRT is FRT, machine gun is machine gun. They are very different legal items.

And it's a youtube video, not a courtroom. A video by a gun enthusiast for other gun enthusiasts.

And you are policing language, that is literally what you're doing while clutching your pearls on your fainting couch.

Everyone in the intended audience knows what he was saying.

Everyone not in the intended audience that wants to ban things is going to hear what they want to hear, and pursue bans, because that's what they do.

I think you need to remove the ~~stick~~ machine gun with clips and a silencer from your behind and lighten up a little, Francis.

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Immediate_Magician62@reddit

What a fucking idiot. They'll have this video pulled up in the court when they ban them again.

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SolenoidsOverGears@reddit

If they do it will show that the FRT/super safety is in fact a single function of the trigger and therefore by legal definition not a machine gun

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Immediate_Magician62@reddit

The problem is Brandon click baiting "machine gun" all over the title and thumbnail

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Dubaku@reddit

If they ban them with the justification that some youtuber called them machine guns that means they were going to do it anyway.

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Immediate_Magician62@reddit

That's a pretty reasonable assumption hpnestly. But being able to point to a prominent 2A figure (that just ran for director of the ATF) referring to them as machine guns is not ammunition we need to be giving them. Also, it's not just about Brandon. It's about every single non-gunsavvy person who saw that thumbnail and title. Those people all vote just like you and me.

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Dubaku@reddit

that just ran for director of the ATF

No one ran for director of the ATF. It's an appointed position.

It's about every single non-gunsavvy person who saw that thumbnail and title.

The people you're describing get their entire idea of how guns work from video games and movies. They're going to see a video of a gun shooting fast and call it a machine gun, no matter how clear the uploader was about it not being one. Just seeing a thumbnail that says "MACHINE GUN" isn't going to activate some kind of MK Ultra programming and get them to demand that FRTs be banned.

I can understand why you're cautious, but this entire thread is either people presenting far fetched "what if" scenarios to panic about, or people fear mongering about how he's doomed us all because they don't like him.

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Immediate_Magician62@reddit

My bad, I'll be honest I just saw the campaign thing he did with the shirts and assumed it was a race. Not really familiar with the actual structure of the atf. I definitely understand where you're coming from with all of that. Im definitely on the side of overly cautious on this for sure.

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Dubaku@reddit

Honestly I don't think there was ever a chance of him getting into that position. It was just a meme that he took advantage of to sell shirts. Which you know fair, get that bag.

I'm not saying that being cautious is bad either, grabbers are always looking for weak points, but getting worked up over a hypothetical isn't productive. Personally I don't think anything will come of this. With the dems being pretty week federally and having to focus on way bigger things right now I doubt they will push for a ban any time soon at that level. And I seriously doubt that Trump would do another EO ban considering how unpopular it was the last time and it ultimately being struck down by the SC. The fact that he didn't call for any kind of gun control after he or Kirk were shot supports this theory too. I've been wrong before, but with the current political climate, at least federally, any kind of gun control is pretty far off. State level is a whole diffrent can of worms, but really any state that would use this video to try and ban FRTs is already trying to ban semi autos so its kinda moot.

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scrubadub@reddit

they're trying to pass new "accelerated rate of fire" laws, they're not relying on existing laws.

Except it is worse because it doesn't just touch FRTs. The laws are written so poorly it would include trigger cranks, bump stocks, and potentially even lighter weight competition triggers.

At a minimum it is irresponsible to say that it is "completely legal for the average civilian to own". Normally people at least say "federally it is legal and check your local laws"

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kograkthestrong@reddit

Anyone else find him extremely annoying?

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Revent10@reddit

years spent easing the super safety and frts into gun culture all for one dude to give politicians all the ammo they need to push for a ban again. fuck

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Dubaku@reddit

I doubt it. If you actually thought that playing this whole "well errm actually they aren't technically machine guns" game would stop the government from ever going after them then you are kinda dumb. We already have a third of the states sueing the federal government over allowing the sale of them and I believe some states even have bans on them. My point being if they want to ban them, they're going to. Some youtuber making a video isn't going change anything.

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Revent10@reddit

its not even a "technically not a machine gun". if the atf followed the legal definition of a machine gun, there wouldnt have been any doubt that these are not machine guns. same with bump stocks and binary triggers, but dipshit glue sniffers in the media will see a high profile youtuber and aspiring politician call it a machine gun and use it to push for bans. People who know nothing about our hobby see a fast firing weapon and be told that theres no reason to own it and that those who do own them arent good people by some of the shittiest people with a platform on the internet.

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Dubaku@reddit

And yet the ATF already tried to say that they were, long before Herrera uploaded this video. And they probably will try to go after them again once they get let out of the cage the current admin has put them in. But if you're basing your fears around what people who know nothing will think when they see something, then you should be this outraged at every gun video on youtube.

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