Palestinian bodies returned by Israel show signs of torture and execution, say doctors
Posted by SpontaneousFlame@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 350 comments
Are we supposed to be surprised by this? Why are we expected to give this a pass? Is this the new normal?
major_jazza@reddit
It's kinda wild the amount of bad hasbara that was/is going around about Hamas, that turns out to be false, and then later we learn Israel are actually doing all these awful things. It's hard to imagine how sick and twisted a lot of what goes on inside Israel is but the verified evidence keeps growing and growing..
justhistory@reddit
So you think all of that info about Hamas was fake? They’re literally beating, executing, and kidnapping their own people right now. I saw footage today of them hacking a man with a machete.
arab-xenon@reddit
That’s terrible. I just saw the video of Israelis r*ping a Palestinian prisoner, and in the same article it said they had a riot to break out multiple rapists who later would go on to make TV appearances.
Awful stuff going on over there in Israel.
tommytwolegs@reddit
I don't believe you that you saw an actual video of that. Even if one exists I doubt it would be posted online.
All that said why are there even Palestinian bodies? Maybe I just need to research more but it's not like Israel is in ruins, how did they fail to keep all their prisoners/hostages alive?
MassivePsychology862@reddit
They kill them, or beat them and deny them medical care. I think there’s one prison where 50% of the detainees died in a few months period.
shieeet@reddit
Here is the video depicting the sexual assault. While the footage doesn't show a close-up of the rape scene, it was used as evidence against the nine soldiers were arrested or detained in relation to the abuse, with one of them admitting to the rape shown in the footage and being convicted for it.
When the suspects were arrested, there were pro-rape riots almost breaking them out of detention, and some of the perpetrators were then paraded around like heroes in Israeli media.
tommytwolegs@reddit
I assume the blurred out portion shows something more damning. I stand corrected. All that other shit is fucked too. What in the world is a pro rape riot Jesus christ
shieeet@reddit
Ay it's mind-boggeling, really
MassivePsychology862@reddit
It’s a cultural / societal phenomena too. The West tries to obfuscate or hide the issue, as well. This breakdown of the Amsterdam hooligan riots / antisemitic pogrom really opened my eyes to the systemic bias that occurs in order to whitewash Israeli society.
https://youtu.be/DvTyg1kJGzM?si=8XsQYP6n3uiIrB8h
There’s a video of Israeli football hooligans chanting about “graping” other Israelis (leftists and commies).
xtralongchilicheese@reddit
You cannot imagine how much I respect you for that. Really a rare sight nowadays on the internet. Thank you o7
And also thanks to /u/shieeet for showing the receipts.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
They appear to have been deliberately killed, as per the article.
loggy_sci@reddit
Just FYI this poster is a war crimes denier who believes that Assad was a great guy and didn’t hurt his own people
tommytwolegs@reddit
Yeah I get that's what appears to have happened according to the doctors examining them but what is Israel even claiming happened? It says they referred the guardian to the Israeli prison bureau or something for comment but then I don't see any follow up.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
The Israeli Prisons Service aren’t answering questions. I’m sure it will follow the usual pattern - a preliminary investigation followed by a thorough investigation followed by complete exoneration in a decade or two.
tommytwolegs@reddit
Yeah I just don't get what Israel even can say here. Surely someone somewhere is explaining why they have bodies at all though? I feel like that should be asked until answered. I guess they could have some from oct 7th but it doesn't seem like that's what they are claiming here.
justhistory@reddit
Of course you did 🙄
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Because you can't answer to this?
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
That tends to happen to collaborators
justhistory@reddit
Tends to happen when militants want to remove their rivals like the powerful Dagmoush clan. There is no indication that there was any collaboration with Israel. They have just opposed Hamas. But hey I guess you think those that oppose Hamas deserve this:
“It’s a massacre. They’re dragging people away, children are screaming and dying, they’re burning our houses. What did we do wrong?”
republican_banana@reddit
The real question is: At some point if you want peace, you need to work with each other.
If you keep killing everyone who works with “the other side” for being “collaborators” then I’m not sure how you ever achieve “Peace” (unless you plan to completely remove the other side).
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
That's terrible and there's no excuse for it, I don't like Hamas either.
WafflesTrufflez@reddit
Every Israeli accusation is a confession
Sahaquiel_9@reddit
You can add America into that phrase and it’ll still be true
HourEast5496@reddit
America is more in oil reference like i cooked curry and added extra oil by accident, and my mom said pot will be invaded by America soon.
Or, when asked to gather around for negotiation for "peace," you will be attacked and taken out.
MassivePsychology862@reddit
“We’re about to get democracy!”
Scientific_Socialist@reddit
This is just generally true of all oppressing classes
The_Determinator@reddit
That's how they justify their actions. They imagine the others are doing something worse, or in this case just as bad, therefore they can do whatever they really want.
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
That's why I've started to use the term 'Israeli allegation' to refer to anyone who does that.
bouguerean@reddit
Some of my friends and I have all started using 'Israeli excuses' for obvious bullshit, ever since one of us dipped out of a group video call early saying her phone was dying.
That was months ago and it's only spread since lol.
MassivePsychology862@reddit
I saw a meme:
“The way you just treated me was spiritually Israeli”
loggy_sci@reddit
Hidden profile is an obvious liar
Ok-Call-4805@reddit
Hopefully it keeps spreading
chuckusadart@reddit
Just to clarify you’re implying the propaganda from one side is “bad” when painting the enemy as villains, but you’re gorging like a pig at a trough from the other side when their propaganda comes out painting the other side as evil?
Lmao
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
Ah, the “both sides” BS again. What propaganda from the other side? That well known organ of Hamas, the BBC? CBS News? The UN? World Cental Kitchen’s Jihadi arm? The secret Muslim Cindy McCain and her evil World Food Program extremists who insist on feeding even Palestinian babies in violation of all Zionist norms?
These empty statements are ludicrous. How can you believe that there is somehow an equivalent to the multi-million dollar propaganda efforts of Israel from the Palestinians that don’t have a functioning government or even many standing buildings in Gaza. Are Hamas advertising on Google and social media? Israel is. Did a Palestinian supporter just buy TikTok? An Israel supporter, Larry Ellison, did.
“Both sides, but don’t think about it, just blindly accept it or you might start to see how absurd it is…”
protomenace@reddit
TRT, Al Jazeera, Iranian military propaganda campaigns on social media and yes, large swathes of the UN.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
I don’t read Iranian media, TRT or Al-Jazeera, but what have they reported that the BBC, The Guardian, Reuters, AP etc haven’t?
The UN isn’t biased against Israel. The UN GA is populated by dictators, true. But the UN is composed of the UN Secretary-General and agencies like UNRWA and UNICEF, run by career bureaucrats that are smeared as antisemites because Israel doesn’t like it when they point out the truth.
The sad part of this is that you engage in these distracting conversation about bias and antisemitism to cover up the mass murder and brutality that the modern state of Israel commits. You will spout anything to distract from Israel’s abuses becoming common knowledge.
protomenace@reddit
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c629j5m2n01o
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
That isn’t news, and the only reason it’s considered a “breach of the rules” is because it was pilloried by people who approve of the genocide Palestinians. The narrator didn’t write the narration. It’s irrelevant who his parents are.
protomenace@reddit
BBC whitewashing antisemitism, and publishing Hamas documentaries. I know you don't think that's an issue but reasonable people will.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
It’s not a Hamas documentary. That’s what Zionists don’t understand - the truth isn’t Hamas. No matter how much they hate the truth, the truth isn’t antisemitic.
protomenace@reddit
K
protomenace@reddit
Sorry my post got deleted by the bot.
Example of TRT blatant false propaganda:
https://www.trtworld.com/article/7c892f3cc4ab
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/gaza-boy-reported-killed-by-israeli-forces-found-alive-aid-group-9220535
Laughably false when you look at the UN GA resolution record, even from before October 7th 2023.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
Just to correct you, the GHF apparently flew this boy and his mother to a secret location outside Gaza and they are not allowing anyone to interview them or verify their story. In another post you were saying corroborating evidence is important. Now you are ignoring that.
The UN bureaucrats and the UN GA are not the same thing. You are conflating them. It’s a rather transparent ploy.
protomenace@reddit
He's literally on video right here. Are you saying he's not real or something?
https://www.foxnews.com/world/exclusive-video-reveals-gaza-boy-said-killed-idf-alive?utm_source=chatgpt.com
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
I love the double standard. The boy is kept hidden so no one can interview him and that’s fine, but you demand corroborating information for everything else…
protomenace@reddit
What are you hoping to achieve by interviewing him? Discovering Jews a robot?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
Whether it’s the same kid or not? You have a blatant double standard. You literally demand ever more corroborating evidence when multiple Palestinian doctors confirm the executions and torture of prisoners, but when the GHF release an unsupported and in corroborated video you accept it at face value and demand the world believe it. Even worse, there have been thousands killed at GHF sites, all documented and corroborated. You are attempting to past a single propaganda piece by about a single boy as somehow offsetting the thousands of deaths or making the news that reported it seem less reliable.
mysoulalamo@reddit
Stop hiding your profile lol
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
Did you notice the link he/it gave? Not only is it from Fox "News" but
ಠ_ಠ
protomenace@reddit
Yes I use it as a research tool, very helpful. Obviously verify it against other sources.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
I can't decide what I hate the most about that link.
On one hand its Fox News.
On the other hand
is super cringe.
ycnz@reddit
Yes, the only feasible possibility is that the UN is biased, not that Israel are doing horrifying shit.
protomenace@reddit
Third option - you're bad at math.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Might as well add in the abominable snowman, with now seriously people are going to take you with that "the UN is part of a world spanning antisemitic conspiracy" bullshit.
Like you could've just excluded that bit and everyone would've taken you almost seriously, but you really can't help yourself.
protomenace@reddit
The world is not sunshine and rainbows. Large numbers of countries are run by brutal dictators, and those brutal dictators are represented at the UN. The UN is not the magical bastion of truth you seem to think it is.
It's hard to take you seriously if you think the UN's credibility is unimpeachable.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
A link to theWikipedia page.
So here, we have the initial argument that the UN, alongside the Iranian intelligence forces are working against Israel, and when challenged, that argument morphs into "the UN isn't perfect, dictatorships have seats in it".
The first one is easily challenged, the second one is easily proved, but they're presented as the same argument.
protomenace@reddit
Oh hey
A link to the Wikipedia page
So here, we have the initial argument that I made above that Iran and the UN each contribute (separately) to pro-palestinian propaganda efforts, and you've made a strawman argument that "the UN, alongside the Iranian intelligence forces, are working against Israel" as if they are collaborating directly. I never said that.
Just that the (many) anti-Israel interests in the UN use the prestige and credibility of the UN as a platform to attack Israel. And, separately, Iran runs massive coordinated social media campaigns to spread (among other things) anti Israel propaganda.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
You can try to twist things however you like. Saying that the UN isn't perfect is very different than claiming that large swathes of the UN are against Israel.
protomenace@reddit
They clearly are when more than half of the UN's business is dealing with 0.02% of the world's population. There is a clear agenda, to anyone who cares to pay attention.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
If there are a hundred people in a room and there is one murderer, people aren't bigoted for focusing on 1% of the rooms population.
The UN condemned russia with minimal resistance, the UN courts convicted Putin for war crimes with minimal resistance and it was done. As Israel continuously has the US block the UN from doing anything, it makes sense for them to try again. It isn't bigoted to try and catch a murderer if you failed to catch him before.
Also, aside from the holes in your argument, again, we seem to have two different arguments here.
protomenace@reddit
Cool now do it again when there's 100 people in the room and 67 murderers, but they are focusing on one of them for other reasons, and you're closer to the truth of the matter.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
Are there 67 murderers? Who has committed genocide in the last year besides Israel and possibly Russia?
protomenace@reddit
If it's all about the genocide then why did the UN spend more than half of its resolutions on Israel BEFORE 2023? There were dozens of genocides in that time. And even while those genocides were happening and nothing coming close to a genocide was happening in Israel/Palestine, the UN still spent more time on Israel than all other countries combined.
In the period between 1948 and 2023 there have been genocides in:
Armenia,
Cambodia,
Guatemala,
Darfur,
Rwanda,
Bosnia,
Iraq,
Myanmar,
Yemen,
China,
Many of these situations involving populations larger than that of I/P combined.
Yet despite all this the UN spent more time in that same period castigating Israel than the entire rest of the world combined.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
All this waffle is not convincing. You keep trying to change the subject because your arguments are not at all convincing. You also try to conflate very different things.
The UN General Assembly and UN bureaucrats are not the same thing. No one is condemning genocides that have ended or wrong doing that has ceased. Can you name any wrong doing that Israel has committed over the last 40 years that it has ceased? No, you can’t. Has Israel flagrantly defied international law for decades, promoting yearly and sometimes more frequent condemnations? Yes. If someone is an unrepentant war criminal and mass murderer should you really demand that the whole UN is silent on their crimes? Why should you make such a demand?
protomenace@reddit
yet even during those genocides, the UN was busy condeming Israel while it was NOT committing a genocide by any conceivable measure. More condemning of Israel than of all those genocides put together.
The simple fact is that even if all of the worst characterizations of Israel's actions over the last 75 years were 100% true, it's absolutely insane and ridiculous to assert that Israel's actions have been worse than the atrocities of the entire rest of the world put together. That's absolutely insane and the fact you can't recognize that shows you are hopelessly biased.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
This is an absurd argument. Not all UN GA condemnations are equal. If the UN GA condemns a genocide in Rwanda does that mean it can’t condemn Israel’s occupation in the West Bank that year? Two countries can do bad things at the same time. Similarly, if a country ignores international law for 60 years are you really saying it should only be criticised for it once, or it’s unfair?
This is preschool playground logic. I can’t believe I have to explain it to you.
protomenace@reddit
You again haven't addressed the fact that they've spent more time castigating Israel than the rest of the world combined. It's indefensible.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
No, it’s eminently defensible. Israel has committed a lot of egregious breaches of international law. So have a lot of other countries. But Israel continues to beach international law year after year, protected by the west.
Note that the US has vetoed UNSC resolutions in defence of Israel 51 times. Why do you think that is? 6 times to prevent a call for a ceasefire during a genocide. Is that because it believes Israel is complying with international law and the entire rest of the world is wrong somehow?
kapsama@reddit
So the UN was wrong then to steal Palestinian lands and give them to racist European settlers?
protomenace@reddit
Fuck you. My ancestors fleeing extermination were not "racist European settlers". Take your disgusting blood libel somewhere else.
If you wanted Hitler to succeed so badly you should just come out and say it.
kapsama@reddit
You know this nonsense would work if we didn't have access to historical records.The Zionist colonization movement started long before Hitler.
If you don't agree with the UN as an authority then you're pretty much admitting that the UN decision to steal Palestinian lands in 1948 was illegitimate.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
"oh the UN isn't perfect"
"So they were wrong to take Palestinian land and giving to European Zionists"
"Fuck you, you're a nazi, only Nazis get upset about the UN not being perfect".
Come on. This shit is lazy. It won't work on left wingers because you've already demonstrated you think they're nazi Muslim terrorists, and it won't work on right wingers because some dipshit calling the other person a nazi the moment things don't go their way is a dream come true for them.
This only works for the very limited number of centrist Zionists and nobody else. At least we know you're not a paid shill, if you did this professionally, you'd know the whole "hysteric Zionist accuses everyone of Being Nazis" thing won't convince anyone.
protomenace@reddit
I don't really care about convincing you, you're beyond redemption as a human. You care about one thing and one thing only - that your tribe wins.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Of course you'd resort to dehumanisation. And of course, this isn't for anyone else. This is just public masturbation disguised as some righteous cause. Continue screaming into your shrinking echo chamber and see if it'll work any better than it has before.
protomenace@reddit
You already dehumanized holocaust victims, but tell me more about "public masturbation". Enjoy your caliphate.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Oh, it looks like someone is "beyond redemption as a human".
Please, show me where I dehumanised holocaust victims or shut the fuck up. I have very little patience for people who think they can use genocide victims like their own little pocker monster they can throw out the moment they face the smallest opposition.
I'd tell you to enjoy your public self fellation, but I would prefer if you kept your habits to yourself.
protomenace@reddit
By calling them "racist European colonizers", trying to take away their humanity so you can justify any violence against them you please.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
I didn't call them that, and both racism and colonialism are things humans do. Honestly, I shouldn't be surprised that you both attribute random quotes you heard somewhere to people you don't like, and you think being victims of genocide somehow purifies people of any prior flaws they could have.
"Oh I couldn't be racist, people tried to kill me".
Since we're talking about justifying violence, if being called a racist colonialist is enough to justify anything and counts as dehumanisation, what does "being beyond redemption as a human" justify? Kisses?
loggy_sci@reddit
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna903486
Iran has been caught running influence campaigns on Reddit
TraditionalGap1@reddit
The pearl clutching irony
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
Also funny how you deleted the comment where you called me a supporter of "right wing jihadist" however the fuck that's support to work.
loggy_sci@reddit
Do you think Hamas are leftists?
Leftists never fail to support the most dogshit people on earth.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
Damn man, your government really needs to invest in better bots or better English education for you guys. No one's falling for that obvious manipulation. It's really embarrassing.
loggy_sci@reddit
Your comment contained nothing of value. Sorry to interrupt your circle jerk, it clearly has you triggered.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
Sure man, whatever you say.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
Says the Israeli bot... You can't make this shit up lmao.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
He takes a professional interest in it 😂
loggy_sci@reddit
I didn’t make it up. I posted a link. You support far right jihadists and accuse people of being bots when they actually provide a link. You’re probably an Iranian bot. Hit dogs holler.
kapsama@reddit
UN is always Khamas, except when it comes to the founding of Israel. Then it was the UN partition that made Israel a legitimate state.
bouguerean@reddit
Yep, it's the whole world, and poor Israel is actually the underdog all along.
An overly-militarized, armed to the teeth, hegemon-backed, tech billionaire beloved underdog. The very first of its kind.
protomenace@reddit
You're right, Iran and Qatar are utopias and their benevolent and universallly loved leaders would never use propaganda.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
That just really weak arguments
protomenace@reddit
Damn you really showed me
VelvetFurryJustice@reddit
Yes, I'm sure they invented communism after they converted Hitler to anti-Semitism too. The whole media that isn't covering the Epstein files is actually controlled by Hamas and Iran.
protomenace@reddit
See you guys can't even confront the basic facts on the ground here. Keep living in your fantasy world where brutal dictatorships aren't using propaganda to advance their agendas.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Is that really the cope you use to explain away criticism? Blame it all on propaganda?
VelvetFurryJustice@reddit
You're defending a Genocide bro, you don't get to accuse people of being controlled by Iranian propaganda. You're just fullmenace.
teilani_a@reddit
Do you ever stop and think it's weird that you're suggesting there's a conspiracy that a small Semitic ethnic group from the Middle East is secretly controlling media outlets and governments around the world, Mr Hidden Posting History?
SquirtSommelier@reddit
Lol who invaded Israel and killed 1,200 civilians?
Here's some more, for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hamas_attacks
bouguerean@reddit
Who invaded Palestine first and started the Nakba, expanding and violently terrorizing the locals until it established a prison in Gaza made up of millions of refugees?
Who fired on thousands of peaceful protestors during the march of return in 2019? Who repeatedly shot at journalists in press vests during times of supposed peace (Shireen). WHo bombed over 500 kids, including adolescent boys playing soccer on a beech in 2014?
1200 civilians doesn't really compare, does it?
Mavian23@reddit
These past two comments are justifying the above claim that both sides are evil.
bouguerean@reddit
No, and that's the laziest position in the world. One 'side' is occupied and terrorized by another even during times of peace.
They cannot travel in or out of Gaza without Israel's permission, even for medical treatments. They can't buy or sell products without Israel's permission (and it blockades everything going in, and tariffs the rest). They can't build their own water and electricity systems without Israel targeting and destroying them to keep the systems under Israeli control (again during times of peace--that's why they were able to cut off both from the population now). At one point, Israel used to control even the number of calories going into Gaza, seemingly just for fun. They're also routinely terrorized and bombed by the IDF in a process known in Israel as "mowing the lawn"--implying systematic trimming of the population.
I don't know how people are still this unaware lol. The entire strip of land is made up entirely of refugees who had been terrorized and forced from their lands in what is now Israel.
Furthermore, after multiple failed 'peace' deals (the ones turned down btw used to stipulate things like making it illegal for Gaza to EVER have a military, despite Israel being one of the most heavily armed nations in the world) and further land grabs from Israel, the violence that defines that region is still overwhelmingly lopsided. Gaza cannot do anything but fight back in order to get the attention they need and insist they cannot live like this. In response, Israel takes the opportunity to put their boot further down every time.
This is not and has never been a 'both sides' or 'two belligerent parties' sort of deal. Defaulting to that is wrong.
Mavian23@reddit
So, let me get this straight. You don't think that the perpetrators of the Oct 7 tragedy are evil?
SquirtSommelier@reddit
The Nakba was a result of the 1948 war - which the Arabs started, and lost.
splader@reddit
And what prompted this "war"?
SquirtSommelier@reddit
Arab rejection of the UN Partition Plan
_Noreturn@reddit
Can I have half your home please?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
SquirtSommelier:
Ben Gurion ordered the predecessor to Plan Dalet - the plan to ethnically cleanse non-Jews from all of British mandate Palestine - in 1936, a full 12 years before 1948. Zionists had no intention of living with Palestinians, something they made abundantly clear.
IAMADon@reddit
Wrong.
capt_fantastic@reddit
Before 1948, before any war or arab invasion, Israel expelled 300,000 Palestinian Arabs. THAT is the reason the arabs declared war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba#Components
And why did they leave? Well according to IDF intelligence, it was because of of Jewish attacks:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba#Components
Haganah Intellegence corroborates this:
And of course, some prominent historians say the same:
Ilan Pappe:
Steven Glazer:
Edgar O'Ballance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus
Gubbinso@reddit
Strange, I could swear history between Gaza and Israel existed before 7/10. According to pro-Israelis, there was absolutely no reason why Palestinians would resort to violence. Definitely not the fact that Israel violently crushed any Palestinian protests against Israel, its blockade or having no right of return. It most likely isn't the fact that the IDF kept killing civilians even before 7/10.
No, such things did not happen, and 7/10 exists in a vacuum.
kapsama@reddit
I bet you're one of those Canadians who think it was the American Indians who were at fault and deserved everything that happened to them.
Ala117@reddit
Who keeps sending hounds known as settlers to to invade Palestinian lands and steal Palestinian homes and lives while protected by the idf?
PreviousCurrentThing@reddit
No one? About a third of the deaths were IDF or Israeli police, so not civilians.
As to who killed them, many were killed by the IDF itself implementing the Hannibal directive. We'll likely never know how many, as much of the evidence was destroyed.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
Are you sure history started in October 7, 2023? I remember other stuff happening before then…
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes
SquirtSommelier@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_war_crimes
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
Israeli war crimes now have their own Wikipedia entry. Wow.
Mavian23@reddit
Are you arguing against the claim that both sides are evil?
digital-didgeridoo@reddit
Has Hasabara invaded anime-titties too?
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
Oh hell yes.
No idea why because all they do is irritate all the normal people in here, they are deffo not changing anyones mind.
major_jazza@reddit
That's not even how I worded it but sure, both sides are bad, one side more so
chuckusadart@reddit
You literally said it’s crazy how much false propaganda goes around about Hamas (minimising one sides evil) and then said it’s Israel that does all the things that Hamas doesn’t.
Think that covers “how you worded it”
major_jazza@reddit
I said, bad hasbara actually, also hasbara/propaganda in and of itself isn't "good" or "bad" which is why I added the qualifier "bad" before it.
Then I went on to say Israel does a lot of the things it claims Hamas has done.
Can you please try just a little harder, like, just a little, thanks
Equivalent_Age_5599@reddit
What? Do you think Hamas is not torturing prisoners?
Darkstar_111@reddit
No evidence of that so far.
urandom123@reddit
Oh good. They didn't torture the people that they kidnapped and took hostage. What a relief.
Darkstar_111@reddit
Yep, that's what the hostages report.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdxnwnz1ldko
loggy_sci@reddit
Literally the first line of that article confirms that there was abuse
TraditionalGap1@reddit
They had to cook and clean? They had to watch others be abused?
I mean, that's terrible and all, but
One sounds like a 'civilized country' pushing the boundaries and one sounds like a terrorist regime
loggy_sci@reddit
You are a liar.
You simply cannot face the fact that your favorite terrorists abused their hostages.
Darkstar_111@reddit
But that's not torture. The israelis raped a Palestinian kid to death in their custody.
loggy_sci@reddit
Starvation is torture.
The Israelis are wrong to mistreat, abuse and murder their prosoners. Hamas are wrong to mistreat, abuse and murder their hostages.
I am able to condemn both but Hamas supporters fumble all over trying to equivocate and excuse their favorite jihadists. Disgusting. Sit down.
Darkstar_111@reddit
> Starvation is torture.
Good we agree. When the Israelis starved the people of Gaza, causing the hostages to also be starved, they were torturing the populace.
loggy_sci@reddit
Terrorist apologia and making excuses for war crimes. Typical Hamas supporter.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
It's like you guys live in some alternate reality where the media and institutions and governments and people like you aren't constantly and consistently making excuses for Israel and its conduct, where the entire conflict isn't framed as aggression from Palestine and defence from Israel.
The complete and utter lack of self awareness is astounding
loggy_sci@reddit
Regardless of what the media says I still would not stupidly support jihadists who abuse prisoners and gun children down in the street for being collaborators.
Darkstar_111@reddit
But you support the IDF who literally raped a kid to death, and then started a podcast.
loggy_sci@reddit
I don’t support the IDF. You people think that not supporting Hamas means I support the IDF. Ridiculous. The IDF being evil doesn’t mean I embrace a bunch of murderous jihadists.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
No, you'll stupidly support religious fundamentalists who abuse prisoners (another article just posted here about it) and gun children down on the street for being... on the wrong street.
Totally blind to the hypocrisy. Amazing
loggy_sci@reddit
I don’t support Israel. I swear to god you people just need everything you believe reflected back at you at all times, and if someone doesn’t do it you accuse them of supporting genocide or wanting to gun down children. You are the softest people on earth.
I also hate Hamas and don’t need to defend them or reflexively shift the conversation to how much worse Israel is because of the power differential. But anyway keep running defense for a bunch of murderous jihadis since you hate Jews or whatever motivates your ridiculous one-sided worldview.
Darkstar_111@reddit
Do you have problem reading? Dyslexia I'm guessing.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
What, you can't point out the lie? gotta downvote instead?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Is that not what I said?
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Do you kniw what the word lie means
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Did they remove any of their eyes?
MediocreWitness726@reddit
You are a massive lying hamas shill.
There's video evidence.
Hamas even released a video of them starving one hostage
TraditionalGap1@reddit
On the one hand, 'even' starving one hostage.
On the other hand, “There were also scars and discoloured patches of skin showing they had been beaten before being killed. There were also signs that their bodies had been abused after they were killed.”
But I'm the shill here.
lol
Mavian23@reddit
What about the hostages that have been malnourished?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/03/family-of-israeli-hostage-evyatar-david-held-in-gaza-accuses-hamas-of-starving-him
anaemic@reddit
You’re upset that prisoners held in Gaza were starving, when they were being held in Gaza, where everyone is being starved by Israel?
Were you expecting them to die of malnutrition faster so they could give extra rations to their prisoners or something?
Mavian23@reddit
They also made him dig his own grave mate. But okay, here is another report about Hamas beating and sexually assaulting hostages:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/04/un-envoy-reports-on-accounts-of-hamas-raping-and-torturing-israeli-hostages
anaemic@reddit
I’m not even getting involved in any of the rest of the whattaboutism, I'm just pointing out its a really dumb take to say "hey they’re starving hostages" when literally everyone is starving to death.
Next you’re going to tell me "Hey they’re drowning hostages" on that boat that’s sinking in the middle of an ocean where everyone’s going under.
Mavian23@reddit
Sure, maybe so. My point, though, is that it's crazy to suggest there is no evidence that Hamas has tortured hostages. The number of people in here defending Hamas is absurd. People can criticize Israel without defending Hamas. The top comment here is suggesting that Hamas hasn't been torturing hostages.
MediocreWitness726@reddit
What bullshit
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
The whistleblowers from Sde Teiman have painted a pretty horrific picture.
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
Some, sure. But exactly 0 returned Israeli hostages show any sign of torture.
Equivalent_Age_5599@reddit
Greta looks perfectly fine too.
Unless you examine them, your just going off your own bias.
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
You mean the Israeli hostage who claimed to have been raped, only to clarify that she had merely been stared at?
"I always try to explain to people that 'rape' is a really big word," she said. "It's not only the act. Even when a guy stands in front of your door, and you're sitting down, and he's staring at you for 10 minutes straight, five to six times a day, every day, for 54 days. Trust me; that's a rape."
Mavian23@reddit
Wait, are you claiming that Hamas hasn't been doing the things that Israel is said to have done in this article? That Hamas hasn't tortured and executed people?
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Hamas did that alright but claim only Hamas did that is just dumb like if IDF and their proxies never do that
Mavian23@reddit
The above person is claiming that Hamas hasn't done that.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
And it like when IDF did commit hideous someone just says "But but what about Hamas?" Or "IDF would never do that, only Hamas would do this"
Mavian23@reddit
Sure. It's still crazy to suggest that Hamas hasn't been torturing people.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
I mean it more like against whatsboutism than actually denied what Hamas doing
Mavian23@reddit
Okay but I never used a whataboutism.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Ok but whatever we talk about IDF it always went to Hamas, we did aware what Hamas doing but always bring up Hamas whatever if IDF doing
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
This is what zionists constantly fail to understand: the vast majority of people who support a free Palestine are not supporting Hamas. That's why anytime someone criticizes israel's atrocities, Zionists will say, "but hamas does it worse" as if that excuses their own inhumanity.
mysoulalamo@reddit
But yet, they always put all of us in the same crowd. When they say Free Palestine from Hamas, I say, how about the West Bank, then they start "explaining" why they should settle there lol they're nuts.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
good to know
ChefCurryYumYum@reddit
Not true
Mavian23@reddit
Yes it is. They said that the things Israel are doing, obviously referring to the contents of this article, have been proven that Hamas is not doing them.
protomenace@reddit
So Hamas is going around Gaza right now executing dissenters, and you think the word of some Palestinian doctors who are trying not to get executed by Hamas is unquestionable?
Shinnobiwan@reddit
This is another Istaeli lie in response to a comment about Israeli lies.
This would be Monty Python type parody if it weren't Congo Free State type tragedy.
protomenace@reddit
Where's the lie? The article simply quotes some doctors. You are acting like doctors cannot lie, or be compelled to lie by the threat of violence. We already know Hamas is executing dissenters. The Guardian couldn't even be bothered to wait for a response from the Israeli side before publishing their story. Let's wait and see before we jump to conclusions.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Ah, yes let's wait and listen to the Israeli side. And when they lie and say the opposite then we just have to believe them.
You know what would make all of this so much easier? If Israel didn't fucking block media. That's definitely a sign of an honest, truthful party, banning media and mass killing journalists. 🙄
How about you take your own advice? You are quite literally doing the thing. You're a complete hypocrite. You're literally reciting hasbara from 2 years ago. Regurgitating whatever bullshit Israel feeds you.
Remember when Israel said they would never bomb a hospital? What about now that they've bombed every single hospital? "Oh but there was khamas terror tunnels!!" Then that means you admit they bombed the hospital which means they lied.
protomenace@reddit
How is it hasbara? It wasn't hasbara that claimed 500 were killed when in fact nobody was and it wasn't even an Israeli missile. That was pure Palestinian propaganda.
Nobody ever said "we would never bomb a hospital". According to international law once used as a military facility, even hospitals become fair targets in war, which is exactly what happened. You can thank Hamas for that, they're on video firing from various hospitals.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
So you're denying Israel bombed the Al-Ahli hospital (the same hospital they admitted to bombing before the infamous "explosion" incident) but at the same time, you're saying it's fine for them to be hospitals???? You're literally doing the meme lol "That didn't happen but if it did, we didn't mean it, and if we did, you deserved it"
The 500 casualties number included injuries and got spread around by the media as "500 killed" due to a mistranslation of "500 victims". The director of Al Shifa hospital (who received the victims) estimated it was 250 killed. Israel originally claimed 1400 Israelis were killed on October 7 and revised it to 1,175. Does that mean no one was killed? https://www.silentlunch.net/p/did-the-entire-media-industry-misquote
There is no verified evidence of who caused it. Israel did bomb that same hospital's cancer center 3 days prior though and has bombed every hospital since. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ahli_Arab_Hospital_explosion#Incident_on_14_October_2023
Wait. You're saying nobody was killed at the Al Ahli Hospital incident?? Are you okay???? That's wild. Even Israeli media didn't try to claim there were zero deaths.
'IDF says it does not target hospitals'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_health_facilities_during_the_Gaza_war
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/05/how-israel-turned-hospitals-into-military-targets-by-lying-about-international-law/
Shinnobiwan@reddit
This is a lie. You know it, but you're trying to past it off as established truth.
It's a cute rhetorical trick Genocide apologists use a lot.
SquirtSommelier@reddit
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/hamas-led-authorities-execute-alleged-collaborators-gaza-official-says-2025-09-22/
EH1987@reddit
Collaborators not dissenters, it right there in the article.
protomenace@reddit
When an authoritarian government executes someone and accuses them of being a traitor, is that government always telling the truth?
EH1987@reddit
Of course not, but it's not like it's a secret that Israel armed collaborators and helped them disrupt and steal aid shipments which they then accused Hamas of.
protomenace@reddit
Even if Israel did that, it doesn't give Hamas free reign to summarily execute whoever they'd like in the streets. They should hold fair trials.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
There's no "if"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/06/netanyahu-defends-arming-palestinian-clans-accused-of-ties-with-jihadist-groups
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-providing-guns-to-gaza-jihadist-gang-to-bolster-opposition-to-hamas/
If that's how you really feel, then Israel has no right to execute any Hamas members in the streets (along with their entire families and neighborhoods )as they please. Israel should hold fair trials for Hamas. And the hundreds of children they have detained in military prison without charge.
protomenace@reddit
Israel has not gone through their own citizens and summarily executed them in the streets accusing them of being "collaborators". If they did that I would not approve of it either.
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Except they quite literally have executed their own citizens in the streets lol. Not necessarily for being collaborators but they have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yotam_Haim,_and_Samer_Talalka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive#Incidents_where_the_directive_was_invoked_or_alleged_to_be_invoked
protomenace@reddit
Bit of a stretch to compare these allegations to actual street executions not during any wartime combat bruv
Sad-Broccoli@reddit
Sure. Executing unarmed civilians for no reason at all is much better
EH1987@reddit
You're right, they're just going through other crountries' citizens and summarily executing them sans accusations of collaboration.
protomenace@reddit
War is hell.
EH1987@reddit
I saw your original comment my friend, you seem to have different standards for different people and it especially funny that you instantly went for that excuse before you noticed whose comment you replied to. You've been pearl clutching about Hamas yet default to excusing Israel when they do the same or worse.
protomenace@reddit
Yes I edited my comment when I thought of a more effective one.
You're still defending summary execution like a psycopath I see.
EH1987@reddit
You do realize that you're calling yourself a psychopath now?Because you literally just did what you're accusing me of.
Shinnobiwan@reddit
The point is you were being dishonest, like genocide defenders frequently do.
Let's not deflect.
protomenace@reddit
Point to one instance of dishonesty on my part.
SquirtSommelier@reddit
How do you know they're collaborators?
EH1987@reddit
I don't know that for a fact, but neither do you know for a fact that they're dissenters.
protomenace@reddit
Wouldn't it be great if instead of summarily executing them in the streets they held fair trials with legal representation on both sides?
EH1987@reddit
Sure would but I don't see how that's an even remotely realistic ask after two years of genocide and near total destruction of any and all government institutions.
Would you be pearl clutching about nazis and nazi collaborators who met similar fates in the wake of WW2?
protomenace@reddit
Maybe put them in prison until you get a working justice system on place instead of executing them.
EH1987@reddit
Sure let me just enable the no build cost cheat and build a few. Are you serious?
protomenace@reddit
I mean it's very obvious Hamas has intact facilities available for holding people against their will for extended periods of time, wouldn't you agree?
EH1987@reddit
Do you support imprisoning dissenters now? Or do you concede that these were in all likelihood collaborators?
protomenace@reddit
How would you jump to that conclusion? Obviously I was saying imprisonment pending trial would be the morally correct alternative to summary execution.
What argument did you make that would have me concede they are collaborators? You added no argument in favor of that conclusion.
EH1987@reddit
What is your evidence that they're simply dissenters? You must have some surely.
protomenace@reddit
You're a "guilty until proven innocent" type I see. And also a "take Hamas at their word" type.
EH1987@reddit
So no evidence at all, I see.
protomenace@reddit
How do I know YOU aren't a collaborator?
You guilty-until-proven-innocent types are insane.
EH1987@reddit
Calm down, you seem unhinged. All I asked was that you present any kind of evidence for your positive claim.
protomenace@reddit
I didn't make any claim other than "summarily executing people in the streets without a trial is bad".
EH1987@reddit
This is a positive claim that you made.
protomenace@reddit
So you think the people Hamas is executing agree with Hamas?
If not, they're dissenters.
EH1987@reddit
Not when the context is this specific because it has a very different connotation and you're very plainly using to muddy the waters. You're not subtle at all, you're incredibly sloppy as evidenced by your instinctive defense of Israel summarily executing people. Caught in 4K as one might say.
Shinnobiwan@reddit
You post the article, then you dishonestly editorialize with info contradicting what's in the article - an article complete with supporting info directly from both the Israeli government and Hamas?
Thanks for providing a perfect example of a dishonest hasbarist.
Honesty check, FAILED (obviously).
Shinnobiwan@reddit
Honesty/Credibility check: What's the difference between this and what I responded to?
Also, there is more in-depth reporting and interviews on this.
protomenace@reddit
No, I fully believe and stand by that statement, because that is what is happening. Hamas is currently murdering anyone who would threaten their iron grip over Palestinians. Why do you feel the need to defend them?
loggy_sci@reddit
You’re arguing with leftists who do not care that Hamas are terrorists and they will never believe anything a Jew says.
Ala117@reddit
Says the rightoid who does not care that the idf and israeli government are terrorists and will never believe anything a non-zionist Jewish person says.
Zeemar@reddit
Lmao Israel has literally confessed to funding rouge groups in Palestine. Fuck outta here bot
protomenace@reddit
And that justifies summary execution in the streets how?
HooleyDoooley@reddit
Any opportunity for due process was flattened by Israel like the rest of the city.
protomenace@reddit
"it's Israel's fault we're murdering people in the streets in cold blood"
HooleyDoooley@reddit
That's not what I said, but yeah it is
protomenace@reddit
Deranged
RedTulkas@reddit
i doesnt
but than again i m not an israeli
protomenace@reddit
This is Hamas doing the execution smoothbrain
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
I know this is going to be challenging for you, but not everyone feels the need to lie all the time, about everything. Some people feel the need to tell the truth and they think it’s moral…
protomenace@reddit
Hamas lies constantly. The fact that you guys continuously believe what they say is unreal.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
This is utter BS. Why would Palestinian doctors lie? They aren’t Hamas?
And you appear to care very little for the truth.
MediocreWitness726@reddit
What? They have a gun to their head.
You appear to be naive.
Hamas have constantly lied.
_Noreturn@reddit
I only believe "countries" that try to scare citizens of calendars
Gubbinso@reddit
Link some of the lies that the doctors and other medical staff have told. Israel has done an investigation and found them to be reliable, even using their publications during briefings.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
And your proof of that is…? Did you just make up a mediocre story?
loggy_sci@reddit
In another thread you said that Assad couldn’t have killed his own people because the U.S. didn’t see it from spy satellites. You are a fucking liar and a hypocrite
protomenace@reddit
Why would you pretend like there's no conceivable motivation for them to lie?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
promenace:
They might also be aliens here to stoke division prior to an invasion from outer space!!
Or they might be telling the truth. We have no reason to suspect otherwise, after all. You have absolutely no facts or evidence that any doctors, Palestinian or otherwise, lied. You are simply saying you are assuming they are lying based on nothing but hatred of Palestinians and love of Israel.
protomenace@reddit
You seem confused. I didn't say they definitely lied. I'm literally just saying we should wait for corroborating evidence before accepting people at their word, especially in a conflict like this where lies run rampant.
A level of healthy skepticism would do you well. Lest you end up believing fake stories like this one https://vinnews.com/2025/09/04/gaza-boy-viral-killed-by-israel-story-debunked-child-confirmed-safe/
Ok-Sherbert5527@reddit
How do you think these people died? A) Old age B) Epstein'd themselves C) The people that had a riot when they were not you are not suppose to rape prisoners tortured them.
We all wonder what happened!! What a mystery!
kieranjackwilson@reddit
Does Israel lie constantly?
protomenace@reddit
Yes, both sides do.
kieranjackwilson@reddit
So then unless you’ve examined the bodies yourself, on what grounds are you assuming Israel is the truthful party?
protomenace@reddit
That's the thing, I'm NOT making assumptions. I'm just saying that just because these doctors said something, doesn't make it true. It could be either way.
kieranjackwilson@reddit
Is this not true of every piece of information to consume that you didn’t vet yourself? How do you figure out was is a fact?
callmejellydog@reddit
Man this is top tier delusion. You are saying to the bro one thing whilst doing it yourself and don’t even know you’re doing it. It actually reminds me of AI hallucinations.
kieranjackwilson@reddit
I don’t understand what you’re saying.
protomenace@reddit
Corroboration by other sources, or physical or other evidence. Basically something beyond the word of one person or group.
kieranjackwilson@reddit
Of course. The things is that the Red Cross handed the bodies to a hospital, and it was the hospital that said the bodies had signs of torture. They then had their forensics experts examine the bodies and they concurred. Then journalists reached out to the IDF for comment, and they didn’t respond.
So I am confused where Hamas comes into play, and why independent forensics isn’t a reliable source.
SquirtSommelier@reddit
Yes - are you saying Hamas doesn't?
kieranjackwilson@reddit
No, I am very clearly not saying that. I asked a simple question.
If you want an argument find it elsewhere.
Freezmaz@reddit
As far as I've heard they're collaborators rather than "dissenters"
protomenace@reddit
Yes that's often what they say to cover for executing dissenters.
ZuP@reddit
https://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/dehumanization
Emphasis mine.
major_jazza@reddit
People tend to be able to dehumanize people who are/would be their neighbors easily, yet seem to easily humanize object, animals, even CEOs and leaders of state, the latter of which don't even know them. Maybe the individualization/deindividualization can explain that to an extent.
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
Parasocial relationships can feel perfect because they are not real and so only exist as an ideal. Relationships with your neighbors force you to acknowledge and grapple with the complexities of what it means to be human, both the good and bad parts.
Garmaglag@reddit
Never meet your ~~heroes~~ neighbors.
celloh234@reddit
Reminds me of all the people dehumanizing muslims in an earlier thread/post today
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
Noticed all my comments calling it out disappeared
rattleandhum@reddit
a lot of the ghouls who were screeching in the comment section of the misidentified Israeli body article that was posted the other day are notably absent from this discussion.
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
And none of them read the article, which clearly stated that the misidentification was an honest mistake, and Hamas was working to rectify the issue. The fact that they have been able to return so many hostages, or their remains, is truly impressive considering the scale of destruction in Gaza.
CwazyCanuck@reddit
Accusations in a mirror.
weltvonalex@reddit
So when the pro Pali crowd accuse Israel of genocide Intentions, is that also a mirror for what their plans for Israel are?
:)
CwazyCanuck@reddit
It’s accusations in a mirror when Israel does it because they have made clear that their intentions are for there never to be a Palestinian state, and they have been trying to have other countries take Palestinians from the Gaza Strip, which would effectively destroy part of a national group.
Even Hamas’ plans for Israelis, should Israel cease to exist, doesn’t call for genocide. See points 15 and 16.
https://www.jns.org/hamas-sponsored-conference-examines-post-liberation-israel/
Not an ideal situation for Israelis, but not genocidal.
rattleandhum@reddit
The genocidal intentions have been demonstrated by genocidal actions by the Israelis. No need to say its a possibility when it is a reality.
Ala117@reddit
Easy on the slur, austrian.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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bullfrogftw@reddit
Does anyone think the Israeli bodies were clean and unmarked?
It's a war predicated on centuries of hate, yes the captured are tortured, also the sky is blue, the sun is warm, and water is wet Before a thousand people on reddit start bellowing accusations at me, I support neither side in this 2 year long 2 sided massacre
BiMonsterIntheMirror@reddit
Both sides are not equal and it's a genocide not massacre.
bullfrogftw@reddit
Not disagreeing with either of those facts
BiMonsterIntheMirror@reddit
Your first comment indicated the exact opposite but its good that you came around.
bullfrogftw@reddit
Do you honestly believe that Hamas members in 2 years of keeping Israeli hostages in a series of war torn underground bunkers shelled daily by an oppressor massacring their citizenry every fucking day didn't take liberties with them, do you fucking think they served then tea and scones, and gave them mani-pedis and massages for fucks sake, the Israeli women were more likely raped multiple times and the men were beaten, that is what fucking happens.
Houdles567@reddit
You have to be honest that it is disingenuous to hold a global power and alleged democracy to a lower standard of prisoner care than a network of terrorists holding captives in a region being bombed and starved.
DankMemeMasterHotdog@reddit
No, it's dishonest to excuse torture on one side because "thry have it rougher".
You are either against torture, or you arent. It's really not a difficult moral stance.
Houdles567@reddit
You need to work on your reading comprehension, because I didn’t excuse anything done by Hamas, who are a terrorist organisation, I just pointed out that the IDF is also a terrorist organisation as they do all same atrocities Hamas does.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
There has been no comment on the Israeli bodies. Note that most were killed by Israeli bombing. Even Israel doesn’t dispute that…
bullfrogftw@reddit
Not disputing that at all, Hell Israel shelled some of their own troops.
I'm just saying there is no way that Hamas kept their hostages in good conditions according to Geneva convention guidelines, as I'm sure Israel didn't keep their Hamas prisoners in good conditions
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
It’s a question of capability and degree. At least one hostage was raped by a Hamas member. Several were killed to prevent their capture. And Israel killed most of the hostages by bombing them, asphyxiating them, drowning them and shooting them. Hamas have very little power here. They have to hide the hostages in tunnels and they don’t abide by international law. Do you really expect Hamas to abide by international law? Bully for you if you do.
Israel breaks international law by moving their prisoners (most of whom are really hostages because they are not accused or suspected of anything) out of the occupied territory, then they raped many of them, tortures all or almost all of them, and killed dozens. Do you know expect Israel to abide by international law? They are a state that has signed up to it, unlike Hamas.
But for some reason Zionists expect and applaud Israel starving, raping, torturing and murdering prisoners while being outraged that Hamas kept hostages, mistreated some, and couldn’t keep them well fed in the middle of a famine. Does that seem normal to you?
Disinformation_Bot@reddit
This is whataboutism, meant to excuse the program of torture and warrantless detentions that Israel has enacted on Palestinians for decades on a much broader scale than Hamas could even approach. Besides which, you must not have paid very close attention because the "abuse" claims by returned Israelis are laughable compared to what is happening to Palestinians, like the woman who claimed that being stared at by a guard was tantamount to rape and that losing 12% of her body weight was "starving".
Do not try to "both sides" this thing. I don't like Hamas either, but constantly pointing back to them every time Israeli atrocities are mentioned is disingenuous.
dasunt@reddit
Most people are going to call groups like Hamas, PIJ, etc, literal terrorist groups.
What does it say about the Israeli government if we hold them to the same standard?
Riley_@reddit
I thought it was already common knowledge that they were starving, beating, torturing, and raping prisoners.
Is someone who ignored it for years going to care about this article?
Everyone needs to stand up against the occupation.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
A lot of people aren’t aware. If you only consume mainstream media you probably had the completely wrong idea about what was going on prior to this genocide: Plurality of Americans Believe Palestinians Occupy Israeli Land - 3/09/2016
Riley_@reddit
Yeah that sucks. I'm mad I was flooded with "it's all really complicated and not our business" propaganda my whole life.
The last two years have made it so abundantly clear that the entire zionism project is a collection of bigotry, lies, and war crimes.
A lot of people are going to turn off western media permanently.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
It was all very carefully cultivated and crafted. Pressure was applied to anyone who reported everything evenly, and a lot of bogus accusations of antisemitism were used to stop the truth from coming out.
It’s shameful that western media became complicit in hiding the truth and they are still complicit.
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
The "its complicated" narrative is so intellectually lazy. We all have a wealth of information at our fingertips, it takes barely any effort to read up on the history of the region.
It's not complicated. It's actually pretty straightforward.
_Noreturn@reddit
I find it stupid that people take any other colonization as bad except this one?
Morgn_Ladimore@reddit
Oh, they would have 100% defended colonialism in the past if they'd been alive then. Zero chance they would have supported groups like the Mau Mau.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
Plausible deniability.
The way the news in the West is set up, we can just not look for this type of news, and we will never find it.
Agasthenes@reddit
Yeah, the same doctors who helped torture the Israeli hostages?
I won't believe shit until unbiased pathologists confirm that.
Is there even a qualified pathologist on Gaza?
Derk_Durr@reddit
It's wild how Israel is behaving so similarly to Nazi Germany. How most Germans vowed never to behave like that again do to the backlash from murdering 5 million Jews. But Germans staunchly defend Israel. What a twisted world we live in.
MrCharmingTaintman@reddit
I hope you bring that same energy when it comes to Israel with its long record of lies.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
I hope you bring this same energy when it comes to Hamas with its long record of terrorism and lies.
Anbhas95@reddit
What is it with Germans and loving genocide? Didn't you learn from WWII that genocide is bad?
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
What's with Irish and not being able to form basic thought? Didn't you have potatoes growing up to fuel your brain?
Anbhas95@reddit
Genocide is bad is a fairly basic thought and I've grabbed that concept quite well. If you're trying to make a famine joke, you're about 150 years too late, plenty of food in house.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Ahhh okay, then you're definitely huffing paint since your comment makes no sense in this thread. Ran out of indians to abuse in your town?
Anbhas95@reddit
You're doing a horrific job at causing offence if that's what you're attempting.
Can you criticise Israel at all? Do you get angry at the word "ceasefire"
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Yes
No
Now what?
Anbhas95@reddit
And you're aware not every Palestinian is a hamas member? That Israel have done some truly evil things in Gaza?
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
💀💀
Wtf does any of this have to do with this thread? Go virtual signal somewhere else and stop wasting people's time
Anbhas95@reddit
So that's a no. I revert back to you being on the side of genocide. Again. Well done
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
🤦🤦👍
Now shoo
MrCharmingTaintman@reddit
But muh Khamas!
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
But muh ReSisTaNcE!
MrCharmingTaintman@reddit
Yea really got me there being the person dropping into a convo and just randomly going on about Hamas. Like is it some weird obsessive urge you have to bring them up? Or just a general bot thing? Maybe hit Oct 7 next.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Muuuuuuh reSIstAnCe!!!
Says the guy who dropped into a convoy and randomly brought up Israel. Blind to your own crap, eh? 😂
MrCharmingTaintman@reddit
Me replying to a comment saying that I hope the person applies their standards and scrutiny to both parties involved is random? Right…
Let’s stick to the original point tho. I know I hold everyone to the same standards. And, because I know you can’t fight your compulsion, yes, that includes Hamas. Can you say the same thing about yourself when it comes to Israel?
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
By same logic, Me replying to a comment saying that I hope the person applies their standards and scrutiny to both parties involved is random? Right…
And yes I can 😘
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
And Israel been boasting they funding Hamas to keep Palestine divided as that what Bibi said that
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
MrCharmingTaintman@reddit
Yep still is.
Excellent. I hope they’re better standards than the person’s I replied to initially. Hadi tschüss.
RaiJolt2@reddit
There’s qualified pathological liars.
Every accusation is a confession from these nazis.
Granted everyone seems to believe that about each other’s side. I’ll just stick with the group that doesn’t want to kill me for existing.
celloh234@reddit
active contributor in r/Palestinian_Violence uh huh right how much are you getting paid?
Agasthenes@reddit
Thanks for the recommendation, the Israel hate circle jerk is unbelievable.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Come on, really? It's 'unbelievable', even with headlines like this? Are you just not capable of critical thinking or something? Unable to empathize with or imagine viewpoints different from your own? something like a 50:1 kill ratio and you truly cannot conceive of anyone not siding with the 50 side?
Agasthenes@reddit
Does your whole political information consist of headlines? Have you really not learned yet that you need to read the article? Because they oh so often say the opposite of what the headline says?
This is the dumbest shit I have read this week.
Skill issue. Shouldn't have punched the biggest meanest guy on the block.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Oh, you're one of those bad faith types. Well, can't say that's really surprising.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
You mean Israel paid them? https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Adjective_Noun1312@reddit
Israel definitely doesn't have a long documented history of lying about this sort of thing, amirite?
Fuck. Your country needs to get over your guilt for the Holocaust, because you're now unconditionally supporting a regime doing the same shit your grandparents did.
Lazy_Membership1849@reddit
Israel would disagree with you that it just Hamas fault
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
iRadiKS@reddit
Wow crazy. What was that doctors name? Do you have photos or any evidence of such doctors torturing israelis?
You asking if there even is a qualified pathologist in Gaza just straight up proves your racism. Gazans are, considering the circumstances, very well educated. I know you saw to many movies and think that arabs are just savage desert people but that is actually not the reality. Not every person in Gaza is Hamas. I can not believe that in the big 2025 we still hear the same racist islamophobic arguments from the same deranged lunatics genocide supporters. Are you not seeing the evidence? Have you not seen the reports and the pictures? What more must happen before you open your eyes?
Ala117@reddit
nice generalisation there german, i'm sure one of your grandparents is proud of you.
You mean the ones israel isn't allowing in?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
I love how every Palestinian is Hamas as far as Zionists are concerned…
callmejellydog@reddit
Of course they are going to say that. It doesn’t mean anything though. Give it a few weeks and fighting will resume anyway and this will be the least of the problems. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing more Hamas rats eliminated.
processedwhaleoils@reddit
Hidden post history & comments. Hmph.
Vegetable-College-17@reddit
Guy was in another thread with the same bloodthirsty crap too.
Hopefully he's ragebaiting.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
Im pretty sure hes an edgy 14 year old.
callmejellydog@reddit
Booodthirsty? That’s funny coming from pro Hamas accounts.
processedwhaleoils@reddit
Are they even still paying you for this?
There's no way they could still be paying you for this. I'd get sooo bored
Andy-Martin@reddit
I’d be interested to hear what the number is for him, pay wise. It CAN’T all that much, can it?
processedwhaleoils@reddit
He's defs rage-baiting
Andy-Martin@reddit
Hidden post history and comments is something that always raises alarm bells with me. Wonder what else is hiding.
SloCalLocal@reddit
Douchey Redditor who needs to look at histories to make a point. Hmph.
FWIW, you can trust neither Palestine nor Israel on this. I have zero confidence either side would accurately report the state of former captives. That said, I'm glad Hamas has been mostly destroyed and I eagerly await the next step in the Palestinian people's self-governance. If there's a Jahannam, it awaits the lot of them.
Dirty_slippers@reddit
Just report the mf.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
callmejellydog:
Does that mean you are for torturing and murdering Palestinians in prison, or simply denying it happened because you trust in Israel’s innate morality?
So you long for the fighting to resume…
callmejellydog@reddit
I’d like to see the infestation eliminated. The only good thing about this end to the fighting was the release of the living innocent hostages. Now it’s time to complete the final stretch given that they are all safe. Let’s see an end to Hamas and their support.
capt_fantastic@reddit
you spelt pow's wrong.
bouguerean@reddit
Sure you're from Scotland bro? Your speech pattern is kinda funny.
mostard_seed@reddit
infestation, huh?
callmejellydog@reddit
Do you prefer cancer?
We can use that if you want. It’s the same thing. Cut the cancer out of Gaza and let the innocent citizens have a chance to heal.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit (OP)
callmejellydog:
pasher5620@reddit
Pretty sure they are saying that because Israel has lied so consistently that their words mean nothing and anything they claim is as untrustworthy as anything Putin or Trump says.
Juzziee@reddit
It's the last line that brings their comment into question.
When Israel have no problem killing innocent people if the end goal is 1 Hamas member then asking for the fighting to continue for the sole purpose of killing Hamas really means "I don't mind Israel killing Palestinians".
We should be asking for the fighting to stop, boot out both governments and replace them with groups that are willing to work with eachother.
Stubbs94@reddit
Imagine justifying torture and murder. Sick fuck
BaguetteFetish@reddit
How many raped and murdered corpses does 9t tske for you to get off?
Asking out of curiosity.
the_art_of_the_taco@reddit
I see
Successful-Seesaw987@reddit
Jewish bodies returned raped, tortured, and dead.
But for the nazi left that's ok
You guys are the new KKK
EH1987@reddit
So at least most of the hasbarists on here seem to have to good sense to creep back into the woodwork when news like this emerge, but there are of course some absolutely unhinged individuals who just can't help themselves, like /u/callmejellydog who is openly wishing for the genocide to resume.
Regnes@reddit
I can't wait to see how the ghouls on r/worldnews and r/news try to justify this.
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