60 Minutes-China's intrusion into US utilities
Posted by UND_mtnman@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 110 comments
Not likely news to anyone in this sub, but might be handy to pass along to those people on your life that might not see a reason to prepare. A small town of 10k in Massachusetts' water company was hacked by China, with the potential to ruin water purification. It is among hundreds of similar agencies that had been hacked. Former 4-Star general discusses the reasons and ramifications.
Hayfork-or-Bust@reddit
All the 12-15kv transformers I’ve seen on my recent jobs are made in China. They used to be made in Mexico but the few MFG in our market have all seemed to switch sourcing to China.
John-Balaya@reddit
It’s not just transformers either. Google Quectel. They have chip modules embedded in that vast majority of our devices and appliances. They are CCP/State controlled, so all it takes is rewriting firmware to disrupt other critical systems: cars, radios, washing machines, fridges, etc etc
Helpful_Ear_4466@reddit
wait, can you say it in a way someone who understands nothing of tech would understand? What can China do to a washing machine thousands of miles away? Isn't a washing machine just a metal thing that rotates and lets water in? woud this apply in Europe as well, that you know of?
BuilderUnhappy7785@reddit
Most (all?) smart devices either need an Internet connection to function at all, or have the ability to receive updates from their manufacturer. This gives the manufacturer (or the CCP/PLA, in the case of China) the ability to either brick a device remotely, or cause it to operate in an unexpected and potentially dangerous manner. This applies to any internet connected device anywhere in the world.
deja_vu_1548@reddit
You could just... Not connect it to the internets?
BuilderUnhappy7785@reddit
Not an option for most of these devices. Anything that’s involved with running the grid is going to be networked.
deja_vu_1548@reddit
It can be networked but not on the internet.
Equivalent-Buyer-841@reddit
Suddenly my driving a 14 year old car with no wifi and having old appliances seems like a great idea. My internet and TVs are toast, but I own 5000 books and several 1960s era radios. Can’t do much if the grid gets bricked, but then we’re all dead anyway
deja_vu_1548@reddit
I've been considering ripping out the LTE modem out of my car.
Equivalent-Buyer-841@reddit
I’d say just disconnect the power, but is the modem doing something vital for your car like pushing software updates to safety sensors? Does doing that brick the car computer?
deja_vu_1548@reddit
Disconnecting the power ain't happening, it's one big plug on the modem. But unplugging it entirely should definitely be possible.
Equivalent-Buyer-841@reddit
Hard to say without seeing the schematic. I think you’ll see more and more people turning off their tracking- esp if it starts pushing ads.
Wulfkat@reddit
John Deere bricking paid for tractors…
The rot is deep.
deiprep@reddit
A recent example of this is what the IDF did with the pagers that hezbollah members owned. Very effective way at attacking the opposition without hurting civilian’s.
Link
dementeddigital2@reddit
Quectel makes communications modules - primarily for cellular communication. The "vast majority" of those devices don't communicate on cell networks. That's not to say that there aren't vulnerabilities with these devices, but Quectel would only have modules in a very narrow subset of electronics.
SeriousCricket2837@reddit
That’s what happens when you have foreign nationals buying massive portions of US companies.
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Capitalists will always go for the cheapest possible.
scrandis@reddit
We have known about this issue for years and the federal and local governments have done absolutely nothing about it. Why? Because most of these utilities are handled by for profit companies
Opening_Career_9869@reddit
I disagree, I have good knowledge of the industry and majority is in the hands of public entities, towns, cities and such.. even when it is run as a private business, like an enterprise fund, it is still a government organization that simply bases its fees on their operating costs, not to make profit, the goal is to be self sustaining.
On that note though, you cannot imagine the costs associated with doing this right or even better. None of these towns have personnel dedicated to SCADA systems that control these plants, they rely on few vendors that screw them over and provide no support, none have dedicated security IT staff, none have even a basic training budget to train their staff better... why? simply because the budgets to have these things would raise your taxes by few hundred dollars per household and no one, anywhere, will vote for that.
PerceiveEternal@reddit
Everyone I’ve talked to that’s remotely involved with utilities, public infrastructure, telecommunications, etc. already operates under the assumption that their network has been completely compromised by CCP or CCP affiliated hackers. My takeaway is basically if you’re a utility that’s not a nuclear facility you’re probably already compromised and have been for years.
ImAFuckingSquirrel@reddit
I have worked with several utility companies over the last few years that caught shit for requiring their systems to be completely air gapped in an increasingly cloud based world. I bet they're feeling pretty good about that now. The Cisco firewall compromise was announced a few weeks ago and we didn't even need to call those guys.
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Hmmmm. I think that China might just be the new big player as the US shrinks and shrivels.
nighshad3@reddit
China was the upcoming shorting star already. The US had to fight for its dominant role in the world, which benefits the country tremendously btw. Instead they chose to retreat. It’s like in animal kingdom, if the alpha elk gets challenged by younger one he has to fight or looses the right to mate with the females. The US can’t “shrink to regain health” through a period of isolation.
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Yeah and the US can’t stop fighting. I guess when war and conquering and colonization are your country’s founding ethos…. You get what you get.
Good point. Thank you.
Firm_Equivalent_4597@reddit
Is Taiwan independent?
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
I can’t find Taiwan on a map.
dementeddigital2@reddit
You can't access Google because of the great firewall? Google maps shows Taiwan.
Firm_Equivalent_4597@reddit
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
That’s a gif you drew. Do you have it on a real map?
Firm_Equivalent_4597@reddit
天安门大屠杀 Taiwan 🇹🇼 小熊维尼 or something 😂
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
So it’s not on a real map? Why are you asking about fake places?
MountainRiverRock@reddit
What China says and what China does/wants to do are two completely different things.
HungryHypocrite135@reddit
So when it matters, they stop shipping to us and then cut the power and water off. Seems like a strategy.
dementeddigital2@reddit
They don't even need to mess with the water everywhere. All they need to do is to do it in a few places and then they can then just run a disinformation campaign. The entire US would then stop trusting water from public utilities.
UND_mtnman@reddit (OP)
That's my concern...seems like it would be scarily effective.
HungryHypocrite135@reddit
Maybe we should partner with them instead of threatening them IDK.
UND_mtnman@reddit (OP)
Seems like that would be the best plan, but we have old men afraid of losing power in charge of both countries, which means us peons get screwed.
NoTerm3078@reddit
Glad to see this on mainstream news.
Duke0fChutney@reddit
This has been a concern for as long as I’ve known about it. ~15 years.
Melodic-Move-3357@reddit
This is the most pressing shtf scenario
FirehoseofTruth@reddit
No it’s not. This is manufactured outrage, especially considering how 60 minutes just got compromised with cbs’s sellout.
Melodic-Move-3357@reddit
Salt typhoon is the tip of the iceberg. If any event is capable of a prolonged disruption of utilities and communication systems at a continental scale, it would be a Chinese attack.
FirehoseofTruth@reddit
Big scary china wants to fight the US…not. There’s far more pressing concerns, such as the fact that we’re living under an authoritarian dIctatorship. There’s a higher chance that we‘d experience a utility blackout under our current regime than from china.
Howard_Drawswell@reddit
Im not sure, but i think what Firehoseof Truth is saying is true because good ol “Make America Great” ain’t keeping an eye on threats, he’s instead putting his security resources into the “threats” of illegal immigrants which as we know are actually resources, not threats.
Merlock_Holmes@reddit
It's not manufactured outrage. Attacks on infrastructure are a massive risk, not just from China.
People don't pay attention, but everything from water, sewer, and electricity are under attack and being compromised daily.
I've worked in government, healthcare, and public transportation sectors and the constant attacks are nuts.
FirehoseofTruth@reddit
It’s a known risk. It’s not that serious though and unless china wants to commit to an actual war, they will never trigger a utility blackout. This 60 minutes segment reeks of the tired 20 year old playbook of “China bad, nationalism good, be scared of China so we can redirect your anger away from the real problems the US has.”
Honestly it’s just tiring. I’ve been hearing for years about how china is a big bad enemy that everyone should be on their toes about. When in reality, they mostly mind their own business while engaging in what literally every developed country does, covert warfare. If 60 minutes wanted to really show concern about how our vulnerable our utilities are, they’d talk about how the trump admin dismantled the agency groups such as the fbi’s cyberwarfare division.
SlaterVBenedict@reddit
The fuck are you talking about, “not that serious?”
FirehoseofTruth@reddit
What’s hard to understand about china not wanting to engage a full hot war with the united states?
Shrewta@reddit
You were probably one of the folks who said there was no way russia would invade ukraine. Just because it seems implausible to specifically you doesn't mean it's impossible.
Merlock_Holmes@reddit
They were weak before this administration, it's worse now. I worked in this industry.
Do you realize how many people would die with an effective long term infrastructure attack? Millions. You'd never have to fire a shot. The chaos and death that would follow would be insane. Especially with this administration because no help would come. They would let us all die.
We already have instances where criminals have used ransomware to sabotage power, sewer, and medical. Yes, I get that you feel this is a propaganda piece about China to distract - but it's not just China, and the threat is real.
LakeSun@reddit
Didn't Trump Team just lay off a Cyber Office?
ironimity@reddit
China underestimates how being pissed off is a huge rally cry for Americans. Unintended consequences would be actually uniting the states. Like poking a hornets nest. FAFO. Not that the Chinese can’t hold a grudge, but I interpret the culture more so expects the CCP to protect them and provide security. Failure in doing that will cause domestic strife there; CCP doesn’t want to upset the apple cart but there’s always the temptation that conflict could be used as a distraction to an economic, demographic and climate time bomb. Smartest move for CCP is to sit back and let the US destroy itself with its current silliness.
Soggy-Pen-2460@reddit
You mean the silliness they are actively amplifying via social media? They fear Trump and a strong conservative movement as it aligns with a warrior ethos and American economic imperialism. The politicians have been selling out the U.S. middle and working classes to China for the last 30 years. Time to show them what’s up and hit them economically while their economy is struggling from their own financial crisis.
UND_mtnman@reddit (OP)
I feel if they weren't facing a demographic crisis of their own, they would likely do just that, sit back. They have a surplus of young men who can't find wives, that's not good for any authoritarian government.
Winter_Proposal_6647@reddit
Welp, we’re definitely primed for some SHTF scenario with the incompetence we have running our country atm.
FIRElady_Momma@reddit
Gen Haugh was the former Director of NSA. He knows what he's talking about.
nick0tesla0@reddit
100%. I worked with him and he’s incredibly knowledgeable on this subject.
CommOnMyFace@reddit
Worked under him. Great leader who always advocated for the Cyber National Mission Force.
KaerMorhen@reddit
It’s baffling that a true patriot such as himself was fired because Laura fucking Loomer told the president he wasn’t loyal. It truly blows my mind.
biobennett@reddit
Generally it's sort of like nukes, mutually assured destruction but in the cyber realm.
We know they have our systems in the crosshairs, we have theirs in the crosshairs too, neither has been willing to suffer the consequences over any of the disagreements we've had
ZeePirate@reddit
The US isn’t making key pieces of tech for infrastructure like the Chinese are for the US.
I’m sure the US may have some access to cyber attacks but it’s not anywhere near the scale and ease China would have by building the tech in the first place.
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Or he has a political narrative to push us into a war for profit.
kl2342@reddit
that's rich coming from a 22 day old account with no public post history
oh yeah also it's ignorant
CommOnMyFace@reddit
Have and continue to triage utilities and critical infrastructure compromised by China & Russia. It's exhausting when people think trying to protect America's water and energy is a partisan political stunt.
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Aren’t we gutting all the regulations in food and water though? Also for profit?
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Chinaobserver youtube channel is amazing, I knew the ccp was horrible and lots of toxic/fake food in china but I had no idea just how bad it was. Type “food” in their channel and watch a video, you will be so happy to live in the US
NoTerm3078@reddit
I'm trying to grow my sources on China so thanks for this, I will take a look.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Laowhy86 is really really good too, just found his channel
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Ew, YouTube.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
What would you suggest? Not many alternatives
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Reliable sleeves of information but I understand that most USians are functionally illiterate with gnat-like attention spans.
So stick to YouTube. Let the algorithm feed you.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Yeah america is so amazing great. In china you cant even use reddit without a vpn and are just a subject of the government rather than a citizen. If you think of any alternatives i’m all ears. Americans would never let the US turn into what china has, we aren’t nearly that blindly obedient and also armed
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Yeah we also don’t know how to cooperate or put the good of the community over the self. We are reaping what we sowed, which was nothing.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
We’re FAR better than china in that aspect, we aren’t greedy/unethical enough to use toxic banned substances in every food and fake foods in order to make more profit at the expense of your fellow people like china does
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Hahahaha, didn’t Trump just gut the FDA?
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Not fully yet but no doubt we’re going in the wrong direction under his control. Much like xi (winnie the pooh) has trump wants to remove elections so he can stay in power. China has NO sorts of food testing/ quality assurance and all around no regulations. Imagine if our government allowed companies to sell us literal banned poison at every turn, would be hell. Cancer wards are PACKED 24/7 there and dishonest numbers reported
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Dude, a simple google search debunks your weird conspiracies….
https://www.khlaw.com/insights/china-released-new-national-food-safety-standards-public-comments
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Yes everyone knows the weak CCP’s reports are to be trusted. Poor attempt wumao, thats minus another 5000 social credits but
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
PrepperIntel-ModTeam@reddit
Your posting was considered Non-constructive under rule 5 of r/PrepperIntel by the mods and has been removed.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Try harder next time wumao, thats-5000 social credits for you
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
What’s your credit score though? Can you buy a house with it? Rent an apartment?
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Ran out of legitimate responses? You’re not making the ccp look good right now, expect severe punishments from your mighty leader winnie
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Enjoy the century of American humiliation.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
Yeah we don’t want all those factories near us polluting our beautiful land. But if needed we could cut china out no problem
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
Hahaha yeah? How’s that going? Trumpy dumpy is sure trying to but, after last time, seems like China holds the cards.
Impossible_Lunch4612@reddit
I don’t doubt you believe that, winnies propaganda is pretty strong apparently. Combined with people who are very blindly obedient
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
rudbeckiahirtas@reddit
....have you ever eaten American food?
DonBoy30@reddit
Do you think China just hacks into our utilities to laugh at us?
“Hey Li, want to see something hilarious? Look at these losers still living like it’s 1995.”
Melodic-Move-3357@reddit
The China-US war over Taiwan will be fought in the streets of America between desperately disinformed mobs.
Alternative-Deal8327@reddit
I don’t think anyone is going to care when China reunites.
Tight-Talk-7591@reddit
*When Taiwan and West Taiwan re-unite.
Alternative-Deal8327@reddit
Is Taiwan on a map?
Tight-Talk-7591@reddit
lmao /r/sino is leaking
But for real tho, what do your folk call the people on the island of Formosa? Like a breakaway republic or rebels or what?
Alternative-Deal8327@reddit
I usually just call that the Republic of China since that’s what they call themselves.
Thanks for the subreddit recommendation! Hadn’t heard of that before.
hurryuppy@reddit
American companies have already polluted all our water, is it worse when they do it?
mikrat1@reddit
Wonder when the episode will come out on all the US Intrusions into other country's infrastructure... But that never happens.
ForthrightGhost@reddit
Good, our government is full of the worst, idiotic people you can imagine and because of their bullshit, they put us all here. We reap what we sow.
tennezzee88@reddit
good
Final-Tumbleweed1335@reddit
How about intrusion into peoples’ pocketbooks by utilities that are going to shoot their bills sky high for AI?
Always bashing China when we ourselves can do so much for ourselves - it’s all bs
UND_mtnman@reddit (OP)
I'll be upset at the utilities if my power goes out because of them. I'll be pissed at China if my power or water goes out because of them. One is likely more incompetent and one is likely more willfully malicious.
runawayjimlfc@reddit
….
Cute_Push_7087@reddit
But if we don’t have an external enemy to fear, we might have to start cleaning our own house!!
AdLiving9971@reddit
Up to now, the U.S. is still playing the petty trick of "it's all China's fault" instead of genuinely addressing the country's current predicaments. Blaming others won't truly solve problems, nor will it make China back down. Even if they use despicable tactics to convince all Americans that China is the most evil country in the world, so what? Start a hot war with China? Damn it, if this continues, the U.S. is really done for.
opman4@reddit
I heard that "rouge radio devices" were being found in Chinese solar inverters. I probably have one connected to my Prius battery.
Forward_Success_2672@reddit
Why the fuck can’t people spell rogue?
opman4@reddit
Because rouge is a real word so it gets autocompleted or missed by spellcheck.
Dangerous-School2958@reddit
Thanks for sharing. F looney Loomer…
howdocomputerdo@reddit
Thats just the free market baybeeeeeeeeee