Climate goals go up in smoke as US datacenters turn to coal | High gas prices and surging AI demand send operators back to the dirtiest fuel in the stack
Posted by VenusbyTuesdayTV@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 80 comments
_Benny_Lava@reddit
The rest of the developed world is moving into a renewable energy future and America is going backwards into a Steampunk dystopia. It didn't have to happen this way...we did it to ourselves.
naniyotaka@reddit
The EU now wants AI... renewable won't sustain those data centers.
https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/apply-ai
"The Apply AI Strategy is designed to enhance the competitiveness of strategic sectors and strengthen the EU’s technological sovereignty. It aims to boost AI adoption and innovation across Europe, particularly among Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs)."
Creepyfaction@reddit
US elites have pretty much backed themselves in a corner and are squeezing as much profit as they can. Next-generation technology and emerging industries are pretty much dominated by China now and the next few years it will become more evident similar to how the USA leapfrogged the USSR in technology and relative living standards by the Brezhnev stagnation.
jackierandomson@reddit
No source of energy has ever replaced a previous source. It has always been additive. This includes "renewables".
Vegetaman916@reddit
This is the type of thing I was talking about long ago when I said things like renewables would never "replace" fossil fuels, they will just be added to capacity to try and bring down costs.
Civilization's demand for energy will continue increasing at a rate that would require cold fusion to meet within a few more years. 10 years from now, we will be burning everything imaginable to try and get just a little more juice for just one more day...
You think data center use is high now? Wait until you see next years "advancements" in technology. Clean water, electrical power, even fresh air will eventually be sucked into that ever-growing money machine that is biologically demanded by human nature and our quest for bigger, better, faster, more...
The limits to growth are hard and fast. And our collapse will be hard and fast as we run up against them. Soon, my friends. Soon we will break that camel's back.
Relative_Yesterday_8@reddit
Ah yes human destiny
thelingererer@reddit
This is like people having kids because who knows he might be the next Einstein and 'solve' climate change only it's tech companies and their baby AI.
Embarrassed-Run-9120@reddit
They don't even believe this, they know they are just pooping more wage slaves to feed the ponzi scheme, but want to do it anyway.
f1shtac000s@reddit
I would say have to do it. Our entire global financial seems is heavily leveraged and depends on constantly bigger and bigger windfalls to sustain itself. Letting it "cool down a bit" isn't really an option.
The only (virtually impossible) hope is that well "figure something out" that will make all of this work and pass the buck off one more time to the next insane bubble. We've basically been doing this perpetually since the GFC in 2008.
Embarrassed-Run-9120@reddit
So, it's impossible to save the world, as capitalism is unsustainable.
Relative_Yesterday_8@reddit
Exponential human population growth and subsequent endless desire for more material wealth is unsustainable. A small handful of maladaptive humans at the top of the hierarchy take advantage of this for personal gain.
endadaroad@reddit
Call a jubilee and cancel debt, then let the billionaires pay for universal basic income and give us a little breathing room while WE figure out what direction to try next.
JonathanApple@reddit
C'mon, some people are just naive but still love their kids, covid ripped off the mask for me but there are still some good people out there making bad decisions for right reasons
Embarrassed-Run-9120@reddit
No good people, the most goulish people i ever met were parents, natalists are the least empathetic people and are always willing to throw anyone under the bus using "muh kids" as a excuse. They don't give a f*ck about nature, of course.
Klaus73@reddit
So what alternative do you propose then?
Embarrassed-Run-9120@reddit
There's no solution, people are this shitty by nature and things will only get worse at faster rates. Even the left wing go crazy when the subject is overpopulation and so they side with Elon Musk on the disgusting breeding fetish. There's no hope.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
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_rihter@reddit
The goal of the AI bubble is to boost energy consumption and sustain the economy.
The entire global economy is a massive Ponzi scheme that seeks a reason to continue increasing energy consumption. When they run out of ideas, they'll start a war.
CantHitachiSpot@reddit
The "economy" is just an artifact/side effect of our labor having value. If billionaires can construct robots that do the full stack work of extracting resources through to development and production of new products without needing human intervention, they won't need an economy
Relative_Yesterday_8@reddit
Then it's either mass poverty, UBI, or violent rebellion right?
illflyawayglory@reddit
What are they doing with all those resources if nobody's buying anything?
Patient_Ad1801@reddit
And we won't need billionaires either 🤷🏼♀️
Relative_Yesterday_8@reddit
Economics is war by other means. We just barely left the bush on a geological timescale. We are fearful apes running modern software on ancient hardware.
LakeSun@reddit
Solar, wind and batteries are the cheapest electric power you can acquire, in all states.
So, show me the incompetent accountant who approved coal.
Solar, wind and batteries are also the FASTEST to implement.
endadaroad@reddit
New data centers should be required to produce what power they need through non-polluting sources and should not be allowed to tie to the grid or public water supplies.
LakeSun@reddit
Exactly, forcing them to SAVE MONEY with solar and wind.
Grand-Page-1180@reddit
Surprised another war started by the US, hasn't happened yet.
EdibleScissors@reddit
There are many indications that the USA is gearing up to liberate Venezuela(‘s oil).
endadaroad@reddit
Why would we want to buy oil from them when we can just take it? /s
Creepyfaction@reddit
USA is already blasting people near Venezuela and there's an ongoing military build-up underway.
f1shtac000s@reddit
You only became aware of Russian/Ukraine tensions in 2022 didn't you? I'm guessing you also missed then news about the unrealized potential of Palestinian oil and gas reserves in 2019? Haven't been keeping up with our attempts to battle "narcotics" in a country that also happens to be a major oil producer?
The US is currently deeply involved in multiple wars to secure natural resources, it's just they get a different spin in the main stream media. Virtually all global conflict can be traced back to a fight to control fossil fuels and America is at least a proxy participant in all of these.
nomnombubbles@reddit
It's a matter of "when", not "if" anymore...
Obligatory I hate this timeline so much.
hypnoticby0@reddit
and it’s being upheld by just a thousand or so billionaires and their loyal slaves, this is hell
wetbulbsarecoming@reddit
Where is your evidence that that is the goal and not just a natural side effect? Just curious.
notMeBeingSaphic@reddit
On this sub there’s an understandable overlap between conspiracy-minded individuals who generally assume everything bad happens from evil intent & those of us just trying to see how soon we’ll manage to make earth uninhabitable. I actually really enjoy the diversity in perspectives and lived experiences …but in this instance the energy consumption is pretty obviously a side effect of the profits being chased by big tech lol
wetbulbsarecoming@reddit
Thoughtful answer
Wuellig@reddit
"start" a war?
The US started world war 3 in 2001, and nearly a quarter of a century in, this escalation is the next phase, not a new event.
nw342@reddit
that's capitalism for ya baby
SimpleAsEndOf@reddit
President Trump⁴⁵
https://i.redd.it/dscdus0pggj31.jpg
Plaid_Piper@reddit
This is exactly what hard sci fi authors have warned about since the 60's. AI takes an enormous amount of computation, which takes an enormous amount of energy, which produces an enormous amount of byproducts such as c02 and heat, and the AI will ALWAYS WANT MORE PROCESSING POWER.
It will never be enough. We will make them smarter and smarter until they are making themselves smarter and smarter, using up all the resources and contributing to the feedback loop.
There's a hypothetical material called computronium, and if AI has it's way, it would be the only important thing on the earth.
PrimalSaturn@reddit
Is it fair to say that the large amounts of energy, water and electricity that ai datacentres consumes is setting us back like 100 years?
JustAtelephonePole@reddit
But wait… did anyone ask AI if it was a good idea?!?
Me-Shell94@reddit
It’s crazy how at every step of the way we seem to be willingly taking the wrong decision.
Dirtsk8r@reddit
Well, "we" aren't making these decisions. These things aren't democratically decided on any step of the way. The entire concept of democracy is kinda moot unless we create an economic democracy. Hell, even working properly it's a representative democracy where the people are fairly far removed from the actual processes of making decisions. And our representatives are completely failing to represent us. So yeah, "we" aren't making the wrong decisions. We weren't even given a chance.
VenusbyTuesdayTV@reddit (OP)
AI boom pushing power demand so high US data centers are going back to coal.
Back to fucking coal. Who gives a damn that's terrible for air pollution and is the fuel that emits the most carbon? Not these billionaires for sure.
Any_Case1754@reddit
The only thing the billionaires will ever care about is making sure the line goes up, everything else be damned.
plasma_smurf@reddit
Racing to a red light.
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radi0head@reddit
It was good while it lasted, sorta
Radiant-Visit1692@reddit
I enjoyed the late 90s and the 00s but haven't dealt well with the rest of it.
femanonette@reddit
Yeah man, that's the part I'm honestly struggling with. My entire life has been an uphill battle and I'm fucking tired of fighting just to live peacefully.
PotatoDrives@reddit
We got some really neat gizmos to play with.
TrickyProfit1369@reddit
and dont forget the sugary drinks, booze and pornhub
johnthomaslumsden@reddit
They ended up controlling our minds and making us miserable, but ooooh shiny…
HigherandHigherDown@reddit
"It was..." "Fun?" "Not fun, but it happened!"
MDCCCLV@reddit
The primary determinant here is the total amount of emissions produced by datacenter use, and if they are using existing coal plants only for a short time before they slowly switch over to solar. If you're just extending coal use by months then it's not as big a deal.
BorealDweller@reddit
But could that renewable energy be put to better use? Like powering people’s homes? Is the highest and best use of renewable energy making some people’s jobs redundant, cheating on school work and making shitty pictures for your blog? Let’s power the necessities first.
Plus more AI means more water use. Also not a good use of a precious resource.
MDCCCLV@reddit
It's a private market, and electricity is fungible. The biggest limit on solar deployments in the US right now is line access, not money.
snowcow@reddit
all coal is bad for anytime without exception
MDCCCLV@reddit
Winter storm power outages can cause billions of dollars in damages and dozens of deaths just for not having power for a few days. That's why you see china building tons of solar and coal plants, just because you need 100% uptime on electricity.
fuck_all_you_too@reddit
How are they going to switch over to solar when they killed the US solar industry and tariff the other solar industry companies to death? Theyre getting paid to use petroleum by the petroleum industry and theres no alternative in sight
NyriasNeo@reddit
"Back to fucking coal. Who gives a damn that's terrible for air pollution and is the fuel that emits the most carbon? Not these billionaires for sure."
Also not the 1/3 (and a little more) US voters who voted "drill baby drill", and the 1/3 who did not give enough of a damn to come out to vote.
It is not just the billionaires.
nw342@reddit
welp, it was nice knowing y'all, good luck in the climate wars!
useless_rejoinder@reddit
How hard is it to build a personal nuclear reactor?
hairway_to____steven@reddit
All safety measures aside, this kid kinda made one.
securitystevepanda@reddit
Who cares? We have blown past every climate deadline and are no where near any real change in global output because mass consumerism will never slow down and no one is regulating China who pumps out more than the entire western hemisphere combined. Combine that with the fact that we have been forced to invest in the 2 worst forms of renewable energy by the overlords because they are the most profitable for the rich and we will never make it anywhere near some magical made up “carbon neutral” number.
If climate change was actually a solvable problem the powers that be would actually be investing in nuclear or tidal wave energy instead of flying 400 private jets to, or chopping down 50000 acres of Amazonian rainforest at, “climate conferences”
The middle class needs to 100% give up on it and invest in whatever is cheapest and easiest to get power to the most people.
HellionElectricEye@reddit
ai really is the end of everything and it has nothing to do with how capable it is
useless_rejoinder@reddit
I got one shiny silver lining: it’ll force us to once again engage in small groups for that human touch; theatre, music, slam poetry… it’s the only way we’ll know it’s real.
At least until they ditch the rubber skin and go full cyborg.
EdibleScissors@reddit
Big AI’s real purpose is to prop up the economies of the west. Sure, it’s a bubble, but it’s also the biggest bubble we’ve ever had and most people’s pension plans will become worthless if (or, rather, when) the bubble bursts. I find the idea that AI surveillance will be particularly useful in the midst of World Depression II when everyone will have a reason to be mad or scared as hell.
I suppose the powers that be could try to defuse the situation, but their track record with dealing with covid and climate change (bunkering up and denial) makes me suspect otherwise.
pheremonal@reddit
I live in a coal heavy area of Canada and an AI data center was approved nearby. You can bet we are getting the fuck out of dodge
lui-fert@reddit
Remember AI is not a thing, not a company, not an organisation, Google is, Open AI is, Deep Seek is, let's not fall into the same as "carbon footprint" it's Shell, It's BP they have names and heads of organisations.
UrSven@reddit
My simplest ones ... Wtdafuk????????Coal?????
Zaynara@reddit
it was nice living in a world with coral reefs, i'll miss them
femanonette@reddit
and glaciers
BlokeInTheMountains@reddit
Burning up the planet for some shitty AI slop
Embarrassed-Run-9120@reddit
Stop having kids, that's what feed this system, that's what generate "growth".
Klaus73@reddit
Aye stop having kids for about 90 years and the climate issue will be solved for certain.
BisquikLite@reddit
Welp, its been real yall
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The following submission statement was provided by /u/VenusbyTuesdayTV:
AI boom pushing power demand so high US data centers are going back to coal.
Back to fucking coal. Who gives a damn that's terrible for air pollution and is the fuel that emits the most carbon? Not these billionaires for sure.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1o683ge/climate_goals_go_up_in_smoke_as_us_datacenters/njeofhs/
HigherandHigherDown@reddit
Oh well, at least we'll have the NAACP and drone surveillance of this shit, until those are proscribed...