I'm an American, left the US for Germany, now I want to move back to America.
Posted by CompetitivePost3750@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 335 comments
Back in 2017, Trump took office and I took that as a signal to leave the country. So I did.
I got my papers and now I can live/work anywhere in the EU. But my career has tons of gaps from when I first moved there, during COVID, and now I've been out of work for 1.5+ years. I worked in tech and do consulting/freelancing on the side, but I'm struggling to even get interviews lately.
I've been staying home and not meeting people to save money and I've unfortunately spiraled down to a point where my mental health is in terrible shape. I came back to the US to stay with family for a couple months while I take a break and save money.
The thing is, it's super nice being with friends and family who love and support me. I have my new friends and professional network in Germany, but it just ain't the same. I've struggled to fully integrate to their culture and honestly don't feel so hopeful about my future in Europe overall. I really enjoyed my 8 years, the work-life balance was amazing, and the self-development is something I will never regret, but I'm at a point where I've lost the vision of my life in the next 5-10 years. I don't know if it's the impostor syndrome, lack of income, and emptied savings that are affecting my perception. I'm depressed.
Anyways, half of my friends are saying:
Man, it's time to move back. We're all here.
The other half is saying:
You should wait until Trump is gone... the threat of fascism seems to be as real as you said it was going to be when you first left the country.
Part of me feels like I would greatly regret leaving right now because I would lose my permit and would not be able to return to Europe as easily. But at the same time, I'm not able to find any jobs, my savings are depleted, and I miss my friends/family. What would you do in my position? I've been speaking to everybody that I know, but none of them are expats... please excuse me for coming here and asking online strangers for their opinion. Thank you.
ExPatMike0728@reddit
Reddit is generally fairly anti-America right now. Many people in this group have never been outside of the US longer than 2 weeks at a time and so have the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" attitude without ever living it.
The US is pretty fractured right now. You said it yourself, half your friends say come back...half say the sky is falling and it's getting worse. The reality is that there is a relatively small but very vocal minority in the country that absolutely hates Trump and everything about him. I feel like they are all on Reddit. Haha. Most of them (not all...) are either really young (gen Z women) or old Hippies reliving their glory days before they became the establishment. But look at the numbers. There has been a 4.3million person swing of voters leaving the Democrats and joining the Republicans (according to the New York Times) a net gain for Republicans in every state part affiliation is tracked and Trump's approval rating is at or near the highest it's ever been. I'm not a pollster. I don't know what that really means for the next election. What I DO know is that this narrative the left pushes that everyone hates Trump and we're all going to be in breadlines under Marshall law just isn't reality. I would say that unless you are undocumented...life for 90% or more is pretty routine and normal.
What choice is right for you? Only you can decide. I spent time outside the US ...went back for a year...then left to SEA. In every country that I've lived in, there have been pro's and con's. I'm currently waiting for my fiance's visa to come back to the US...but that is more about our children (her children that I call mine now) having a better life with more opportunities.
Work/life balance in the EU is better than here. No doubt...but that is changing and more and more this is becoming a bigger priority for job seekers and companies are acknowledging that and improving. Especially in IT. Health care is cheaper in the EU...but when you look at the taxes etc....its not as dramatic as I thought when I first moved there...plus in the US there is more Dr choice and quicker to see DRs and specialist etc. what I found worked for me....once I had my plan picked out....I took my max out of pocket cost for a year. Divided by 26 (paid every other week) and put that much in a separate account. Turns out I used very little of it and so the next year I added that same amount until I had a savings of my max out of pocket. To me I just looked at it as taxing myself. Once I knew that I had that max out of pocket... medical wasn't an issue that I worried about.
For me, I'd probably go to the US for a while. Your international experience in IT will make you a valuable hire and I'm at the point where I feel like my mental health is as important or more than pretty much anything else. Study after study says social connections and family are better indicators of happiness and good mental health than dang near anything else.
But I'm not you. No one can tell you what is best for YOU. I would just say that if you ask 99% if people how their life is worse specifically under Trump...most of them can't tell you anything. It's more about a fear or they think something is going to happen to them or their life is fine, but they are standing up for someone else. It's mostly unnecessary worry about things that just are not as bad as people on Reddit would have you believe.
I'll probably get downvoted for this. And called all kinds of names....but just so you know. I am NOT MAGA....I have NEVER voted for Trump. This is just how I see it.
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
There are literally tactically armed national guards walking around my neighborhood in DC. I live in a nice area of the city and was floored and terrified seeing soldiers walking in my neighborhood with AKs when the first deployed 2 months ago. Many of them only carry a side arm now (only lol) but we literally have armed military walking neighborhoods here. Two weeks ago my neighbor was raider by ice, and I haven’t seen him again. The kicker is he’s from Puerto Rico- part of the United States. So Marshall law is very much a reality and the last time I got a loaf of bread it was 8$ for the cheaper stuff. Bread lines are entirely possible.
ExPatMike0728@reddit
Well the US Military doesn't use AK's...so this is you exaggerating.
The average price for a loaf of bread in the US is $ 1.84. if YOU paid $8.00 that says a lot more about you than anything else.
Your entire comment proves my point. Thank you.
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
Look, they may me AR 15s or whatever but they are large military weapons- I am Not an expert in weapons. There are plenty of pictures and articles with them marching around the area. Here is a Reddit thread about it with pictures- they are armed with giant weapons.
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/2z5ORZPHNt
My comment did not prove your point. No matter how you logic it.
ExPatMike0728@reddit
I googled it from Phnom Penh Cambodia. My mother died 2 years ago.
My son lives in the Crystal City area said he pays about 2.5-3...that was my confirmation source. I mean, I'm sure we can pull up grocery delivery apps from Target or Walmart or Instacart and see....but: 1...you were exaggerating to make a point and I just clarified so noone took it as real. 2...you are an idiot if you really paid $8 for a loaf.
And for everyone like you that is complaining about the military in DC...I can show you two that say they are so happy with the reduced crime and being able to go places they couldn't before.
No_Vegetable7280@reddit
Oh- a boomer. This makes total sense now. You assume I’m exaggerating even in the face of proof because you couldn’t fathom accepting anyone else lived experience. It didn’t happen to you or your son, so it can’t possibly be true, right?
Educational-Fan5594@reddit
And don’t go to France! Soldiers everywhere and frankly, we welcome this.
circle22woman@reddit
Don't go to Germany then! I see cops in tactical gear with MP5 walking around all the time.
NYColette@reddit
There is a large group of people who loathe Trump and everything he represents--and even if they didn't, his authoritarian actions and racist policies are morally repugnant and who cares if some people aren't bothered by them? Many people are lazy and weak-willed and go with the crowd instead of thinking of what it will mean further down the line.
Also--I'm in the UK now and cannot believe how proactive and responsive the NHS is. I had VERY good insurance in NYC and this has been friendlier, easier to deal with, and my answers are answered more quickly/courteously. And I'm not having irrelevant but expensive tests constantly recommended.
PsychologicalBit7400@reddit
It is frightening in the US right now. Being inadvertently in the wrong place, at the wrong time, can mean you get grabbed off of the street.
If I were in that situation, I would find another country to go to.
MomHasEnteredTheChat@reddit
The internet is full of echo chambers and bots amplifying how bad it is in the US. Don’t get me wrong: there are plenty bad happening (worldwide, too). I lived through the insanity of Bush and the country survived. We’re very likely to get a wave of liberals in office this midterms to help wrest control back from a sycophantic Congress. If so, Trump’s power will be greatly reduced. And there are major cases on the docket before the Supreme Court that are likely to dampen the flames of authoritarianism. (Yes, even the conservative Justices can sometimes make the right decision.)
Having said all of that, I don’t know your situation intimately but I know mine. I’ve been in Norway 8 years and am about to move back to the US with my Norwegian husband (who’s also in tech). We have job offers there but the real reason for the move is to be closer to family. We have no kids of our own but my American family is big and warm and welcoming and my husband and I crave that. I love Norway’s beauty but people are very reserved here and it makes forging friendships different and rules-based.
If we didn’t have the job offers, things would be different though. If I were you, I’d try to cinch that part. It’s basically end-of-year right now so it’s not the most promising time to search for a job in tech. If you have the funds, I’d brush up on certs or whatever you can to polish the resume then come out guns a’blazin’ in January when tech corps open the coffers to hire big. Just a thought.
Either way, I wish you well. Follow your heart but don’t forget to make both a short term plan and a long term one. Don’t know your age, but take it from someone in late 40’s to start planning for health needs and retirement while you’re young. Whatever you choose, do it with every bit of passion you did when you took the leap to go to Germany.
blackveil88@reddit
That’s really nice that you think the midterms won’t be tampered with.
MomHasEnteredTheChat@reddit
I understand the worries after all of the insanity as of late. But just like Trump wasn’t able to affectively steal or rig an election in 2020 (despite his attempts and preposterous claims that the other party did), it won’t happen in 2026 nor in 2028. There would have to be a total and complete system collapse to bring that about.
Midterms and national elections are run locally (not by one central authority) which makes large-scale tampering a Herculean effort and highly unlikely. Nearly all states use paper ballots and voter-verifiable records or electronic machines with auditable backups that either party can challenge. And both parties have observers during counting (swing states often have international observers). Results are audited, cross-checked, and certified at multiple levels. The system isn’t perfect, but it’s highly decentralized, transparent, and it really is resilient to coordinated manipulation no matter what the noisy doomsayers want you to believe.
Money, however, can shape messaging and airtime, so it’s a concern. But it can’t rewrite ballots or control the count. Voters still have the final say, and Trump is shooting himself in the foot.
My early prediction is that the midterms are going to produce a more balanced Congress.
blackkettle@reddit
How are you able to work in any EU country if you don’t have a German passport? Do you have a blue card? Usually a residence permit is limited exclusively to the country that issues it unless you have citizenship from another EU member country.
ssg_partners@reddit
Exactly. OP says he can work anywhere in the EU yet he doesn't have German citizenship. It seems like OP is blatantly unaware of immigration laws.
jerseyexpat2020@reddit
I don’t think fascism goes away if Trump leaves/dies. It gets worse, as it is entrenched in our institutions now. The US is heading for a reckoning sooner or later, IMO. I, personally would not go back.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
That's what I'm saying... Trump has caused permanent damage and institutions have been compromised... we're heading towards techno feudalism IMO
lhenryp1@reddit
Many would argue that Trump is repairing damage done to institutions that have been compromised.
Egad86@reddit
I wish I had a path to get my family out. You’re one of the lucky ones, visit but wouldn’t suggest moving back until the country has made about 20 years worth of change away from the current state of affairs.
Tardislass@reddit
Sorry but I know a lot of expats who have returned and a lot of Germans who live in America. The world is turning right. Germany is slowly turning in that direction. The malaise migrant anger and Islamaphobia have increased in the past twenty years.
Europe is not the Utopia Reddit believes. Getting a job and housing is hard and falling that means sometimes you need help. Reddit isn’t real life.
Tardislass@reddit
Im going to be real and say that Germany is headed in the same path. Not with a leader but with the fascism anti immigrant party. Visiting Germany the racist anti immigrant brigade was loud. People actually voiced their beliefs out loud.
lesllle@reddit
Just move back to a bubble area. There have always been political problems. You have to think about what you can control. Is that better in Germany or the US?
circle22woman@reddit
Exactly. OP should stay in Germany and wait for AfD to take power. Great solution!
ReadySteady_54321@reddit
I don't agree. It's a cult of personality and it fractures when he leaves the scene.
reebeachbabe@reddit
Have you not paid attention to what he’s been doing and what’s been going on since he lost the election, and got back in office? He had 4 years to plan his moves—with the help of the Project 2025 architects. It’s not going to be undone quickly or easily.
ReadySteady_54321@reddit
It’s all predicated on him. When he’s no longer around, ask yourselves who will take his place? JD Vance? Eric and Don Jr? They’re all a joke, and they all know it, so everyone will think it’s their time to make a move. The infighting with be immediate and vicious.
TikiBikini1984@reddit
The fact that you only mentioned "yes man" figureheads and not the architects/people actually responsible for the planning and dismantling of the US only proves their point further.
Civil-Nose-9405@reddit
I don’t know why you’re downvoted, I kind of a agree with this as well.
hot_tuna_@reddit
Hey, just wanted to say I'm in the same boat. Moved to Germany a couple years ago for a job and the company went bankrupt earlier this year. Longer periods of unemployment are so tough on mental health! I am constantly flipflopping between staying and leaving, probably for the same reasons as you. Pro + con lists don't really help, as they are comparing apples and pears....there are some things that are better here and some things that are better there and we can't really say which things are the most important. Whether we stay or go, we will have some great things in our lives and sacrifice other things. There is no right answer. For me, I started applying to jobs in both places and am hoping that eventually I get an opportunity in one place that makes the decision for me. Remember that nothing in life is permanent - you can always change your mind and move again later! I know how hard this time is and wish the best for you. We grow the most in difficult times.
FrontApprehensive836@reddit
This is great answer. I will decide for what ever you think its best for now! Dont think too far in the future. Maybe the world wont exist tommorwo. Especially, when you are alreqdy having some savings! Thats ok. We dont have to have those ideals of other people! You just need to be happy!!
tanyasstre64@reddit
Also not to forget, you have probably zero credit in the U.S., remember you need a good credit score to have anything in the U.S. …plus the healthcare situation. Your social security took a hit too, I don’t know how old you are but if you don’t have a job you’ve been contributing to over the last 8 years and not conto SS your SS will be low at retirement.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
actually my credit score is over 800 but yeah, I would have no health insurance and my 401k hasn't had a contribution in ages...
FrontApprehensive836@reddit
So you have 400k in your account? If so, i would do anything that makes me happy. If you want to stay in us, do it. Do small jobs or anything makes you happy. 400k is enough to have a security and doing any small jobs you want to not get to stressed in this time
Affectionate_Law7117@reddit
Bro your credit is over 800 and even though your 401 K hsant had a contribution im sur ethere is some money in there. Trust me you are better off than most Germans. Also at least you have a chance of buying a house!! Maybe not in expensive states in CA , WA or NY but your have a big chance of ownership. Also as i moved back from Germany to the USA my network exploded. Its liek my life caught up. Its worth the move trust me. Germany drained me lol
tanyasstre64@reddit
Wow, how did you maintain a credit score while being away so long? I wasn’t having anything being submitted to the credit bureaus for years because obviously I was out of the country so I had to start from scratch coming back…it was awful..hard to get a rental, a car, etc
Striking_Temptation@reddit
It would be advisable to obtain your German citizenship prior to your departure, unless, of course, you have not learned German. I got mine and dual-citizen is now allowed.
Ok_Annual_2729@reddit
Facts .. got my German citizenship last year. Am not flexible to test the waters anywhere.!!!
thenew-supreme@reddit
I agree with this
fruitfan512@reddit
Hey. Just wanted to say I identify with everything you put in your post. I have been in Germany for 10 years and went through pretty much the exact same thing these past few years, the crushing loneliness the depression the loss of perspective and just feeling like you have endless freedom but in a bad way, like you are out at sea without a rudder. Only difference is I am from the U.K. so it was easier for me to go back home and reconnect. I can’t imagine how hard it is for someone who lives further away than that.
I gritted my teeth through the whole thing and finally got my German citizenship this week. At multiple points I came so close to leaving despite wanting the citizenship and the extra freedom it brings so badly. So I understand why someone in your position would desperately want to leave. But the citizenship feels amazing. Plus I also put off applying for a year becsuse I thought it was gonna take ages - in the end I got it in a few short months. So it is possible man.
Anyway just wanted to share my perspective becsuse I really connected with your post. It’s hard here and I don’t think it’s possible to really get others to understand if they haven’t experienced it themselves. But I have found great cameraderie when I have connected with people in a similar situation so yeah. Hope this helps somewhat.
sorog666@reddit
Nothing against leaving your country because of Trumph, I would’ve left too!! But guys Berlin is a broken city in Germany, I don’t understand why moving here, this is not New York or Brooklyn. It doesn’t have a good jobs market and rent is crazy high now! And no offences but it becomes an American city and people who lives here since 10 years like me are fucked because Americans made EU not affordable anymore, for you everything is “cheap” but the reality is different for us…5€ for a cappuccino is not normal for us, since Americans invaded Berlin prices got insanely high, if you go to place like “LA MAISON” you only see Americans sitting and spending 13/15 € for a breakfast… it’s insane, for us was a normal things to drink a coffee and now it becomes a luxury… you guys should consider this as well!
SejaComoFor@reddit
Btw…I’m a German/American expat in Portugal - we left the US for similar reasons and will not go back - you can message me and I can “keep you company” if you feel bad - Deutschland ist nicht immer der freundlichste Ort 😀- my American husband can attest to that, but there are really good, quality friendships you make and have made there. Hang in there!
motherofmonateras@reddit
I’m sorry you are experiencing this. I too am a US citizen who has lived in Germany for the past 5ish years so I understand and relate to many of your thoughts and emotions especially what you mean but the relationships amongst your German friends are not the same as your U.S. friends. I can’t save you a direct answer but what I have done in the past is look at more than just financials and line of work but also lifestyle. Does the U.S. city have experiences for me and not just my closest friends and family ex: trails to hike, festivals, etc. or whatever you may be into.
SejaComoFor@reddit
Don’t leave Europe - may be move to a different country. Things will get worse under Trump and you’ll wonder why everyone around you acts as if nothing is different or wrong. I couldn’t endure looking MAGAts in the face knowing they brought all this suffering and stupidity to the country.
SuspiciousAd6450@reddit
If you can work anywhere in the EU have you thought about anywhere else?
Blastercastleg@reddit
Are there more job opportunities in USA? I would do a pros cons list both places and be honest and detailed. I assume that politics is important to you if you left on Trumps first term then now that he has turned USA into real facist state will have serious weight in decision. Are there other places you can look in EU? Dealing with your mental health and caring for yourself is first . Go where you can take care of that first .
PabloCChristo@reddit
I am curious why you can't find employment in IT in Germany. I have been living in Germany for the last 6 years, I see lots of IT jobs online. Also you left the US for a reason, I seriously doubt the current situation in the US is any better than when you left. I understand your mental health is suffering but I would try to find help in Germany for that issue. You will have a hard time getting any mental health care in the US, costs are looking like they might increase tremendously, and the job market is not that great. Good luck
YuSmelFani@reddit
Germany isn’t the best entry point to Europe. You should move to Spain or Portugal; way easier to make friends!
NationalMycologist42@reddit
I personally would move back to America, but that’s because I personally can achieve my financial and social goals far better at home in America. You have to evaluate what your goals are. I personally hate Germany and find many pros in America than in Germany simply as the American culture, society, economy aligns with me better than in Germany. So find what country aligns with your interests better. I am biased and will say go back to America but again idk what you want to achieve in the next 5 years and if you can achieve it in Germany. Right now the housing crisis and job crisis in Germany is terrible and I know Germans themselves who wish they had the opportunity to try out another country and move out. I suggest if you can’t find a job in Germany (it’s extremely hard) how about start applying for jobs in America (don’t mention you are in Germany! Use a family or friend’s address) and see if you can get a job in Germany or America first.
bkngstr@reddit
Doesn’t sound like you have a choice if you have no money and can’t get a job? Pretty easy decision.
As far as trump, go back, focus on making money and putting your life back together and stop watching the news… all politicians are crooks just put your head down and let them do their thing while you sort your life out.
photolithonium@reddit
If you live anywhere in the white liberal world, fascism is part of the system, it has always been
Afraid-Wolverine1313@reddit
I’m in a similar situation to you living in Belgium. Not really integrating well with the drinking culture here and with the locals. The other Americans I’ve met don’t really have hobbies or try to do things outside of work. I’m really considering moving back. Like you said, it’s nice to be able to grow and challenge yourself however, it’s important to be where you are loved and appreciated despite the current state of the U.S
DAMNIMIGRUNT@reddit
Honestly, it’s a tough question to answer.
I’m in a similar position myself. I met my wife in the US, having moved from the UK almost 10 years ago now.
While I’m not struggling for work (I work in tech too), being this far away from my parents and siblings is very difficult. As I’m sure you understand, the time difference plays a large part too.
After 10 years, getting married, and having 2 kids, I’m working to move back to the UK with them, similarly for the reasons you’ve moved away.
It’s a pros and cons kind of deal that I don’t think anyone can give you a reasonable answer to. I’m going through the same process in my head.
The real question you should probably be asking yourself is:
‘What do I value most in life?’
For me, it’s family, safety, and stability. And those combined are enough for me to swallow the tough pill that while I’ve loved living in the states, it’s time for this ‘chapter’ to close.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
thanks for sharing. I thought I valued freedom above all else, but being free alone isn't worth it...
Which-Country4@reddit
What exactly do you mean by "freedom"? What freedom do you have in the US that you didn't have in the EU?
ComparisonOk159@reddit
I think he said he was more free in the EU
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
What freedom does he have there that he doesn't have here. I actually decided I no longer want to move to Germany, a country that feels like home and that I love, because I do love my US freedoms.
sir_mrej@reddit
What US freedoms do you have that you wouldnt have in Europe?
Chicken_Fried_Snails@reddit
Freedom of speech, freedom of political activism, gun ownership, religion comes under less fiscal scrutiny (for better or worse), to name some big ones
(Europe definitely has some good ones too, ie worker protection, Healthcare, privacy laws)
BibliophileBroad@reddit
Freedom of speech? Have you seen the administration cracking down on that? They’ve been threatening the newspapers, too. As for guns, do you really think they’re going to let you keep your guns? Have you heard about the Trump gun registry? Have you kept up with the news? It seems like you’re repeating the same old Republican talking points.
Chicken_Fried_Snails@reddit
It bothers me that our privacy laws are continuously violated, typically by the right. (I may be repeating talking points..... but I'm not a republican , I have both conservative and liberal views) stop trying to put people and the USA in a box, it can't be done. We were talking about legal freedom, not Trump. Try to move beyond that and realize that many other countries don't have access to the kind of freedoms to live our day to day lives as we please. Living in an individualistic society precludes a certain amount of non- agreement about (social) norms..... ya know, live and let live
InflationCrazy3789@reddit
Freedom to criticize our government
TheChillenial@reddit
i don't know if you've been paying attention, but I wouldn't hold my breath on this one
InflationCrazy3789@reddit
How are we talking about right now or a hypothetical unknown what could happen in the future? Because right now we can criticize our government. If you did that over in the United Kingdom right now you’d be arrested
circle22woman@reddit
Freedom from having the police visit when they don't like your social media comments?
BibliophileBroad@reddit
I'd like to know, too, especially given that our government is getting more and more authoritarian??
Wiechu@reddit
that is an understatement. You guys are on a fast track to become a totalitarian country and it is terrifying.
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
This is not an exhaustive list. To be clear, these are freedoms I have, that are important to me:
Freedom of Speech and Expression- covers more in the US
The Right to Bear Arms- I own several firearms, including ARs
The Right to Carry Concealed- I do have a concealed carry permit, that I use
Alternative Schooling Options
I am a Bully Breed owner, and he is banned in fewer US municipalities than German states.
Frog17000000@reddit
Yeah, you're not a fit in Europe
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
I do just fine there. I've done just fine there. I understand, when in Rome... but I am quite happy here, too. Some people can see the best of both worlds... of many worlds. I can appreciate the way of life in several places, and I appreciate what I have here.
Oh, there are plenty of Europeans who admire these American rights, too. Don't try and speak for a continent.
lovepeacefakepiano@reddit
I’d be interested in that, too.
The only freedom I can think of is that you can’t homeschool your kids in Germany, and the taxes are higher.
wtf-srsly-usa@reddit
Yea but you won’t go bankrupt from medical debt, you have decent public transportation, and you won’t have to constantly worry whenever you’re at a public event that it will turn into a mass shooting
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
I don't worry about that, although I prepare for it. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_Germany.
lovepeacefakepiano@reddit
Wait, you’re comparing a handful of events with school shootings that happen so regularly they barely make the news anymore? Interesting.
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
I'm not comparing anything. I'm making you aware that mass shootings happen there, too. Further, your comment wasn't about school shootings. It was about public events. Just because there is a greater probability one would encounter that threat here doesn't mean there is null probability that one will encounter it there.
Sad_Firefighter_8745@reddit
This hasn’t happened yet, but: as a queer person, I fear I could lose the freedom to get married and have that marriage recognized by the federal government given that the current Supreme Court does not respect precedent.
GeneralFamiliar11@reddit
Family and loved ones are what give the flavor to life.Far away your just a stranger living with strange people.I do get the part a bout Trump and fascism though.
ActPuzzleheaded8516@reddit
Can you just visit the US and see how it feels? Is that possible? The economy here isn’t great. Maybe you just need to feel friends and family for awhile and then go back
MauveAlong@reddit
First off it sounds like you're really in a painful place right now, and thank you for sharing what you're going through. Nobody but you can tell you what you should do, so take some time to write it all out. Hit on the pros of Germany, the cons of Germany, the pros of the USA, the cons of the USA, and rank each response in order of importance. If it's stuck in your head it's jumbled up, get it all out.
There's no perfect place without problems, but it sounds like you feel overwhelmed and powerless, and you aren't. You made the decision to move, so you can make plans and see them through. You've got your own back, so own your choices and never be afraid to make new ones. Take care of yourself.
Present_Price_1067@reddit
This is literally a ChatGPT response….seriously? I just checked it with ZeroGPT.
MauveAlong@reddit
Awe thank you. It's a good thing that my $157,000 of student loan debt allows me to provide warm and empathetic responses and accurately deliver classic cognitive behavioral techniques. ❤️🥰
Present_Price_1067@reddit
I see you wasted a lot of money. Sorry to hear that :(
MauveAlong@reddit
Clearly it was money well spent, because my response was authentic and accurate to my field of study. I did not use any LLM for my response as you implied, I learned and my response came from my years of education and practice. It is bullshit that Americans have to pay so much for degrees. That's part of why I left the USA.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Thanks, that'll be a good exercise actually.
ClockwiseSuicide@reddit
As a dual EU/US citizen currently living in the U.S. and eagerly planning my move back to Europe in approximately 1.5 years, I am curious: how many jobs had you applied to? Per day?What does your job search routine look like? I’m terrified of picking up, dropping everything I have here, and moving across the world so I’d be interested in learning from you.
Friends are not even remotely a factor for me. I don’t find Americans particularly community oriented, and friends here are more of a “social media” thing, it seems. Europe is much more community focused.
Tiggon169@reddit
I would also suggest making some goals. Like I am going to try to apply to X number of jobs a ______(week, month, etc.) and then if I have not found work in ________(months, years, etc.) I will do X. another one may be... I am going to make X in the next 2 weeks from freelance jobs so I can go out once a week with my German connections. Setting work goals and setting goals for fun are important. Its really hard to feel like you fit in when you stay home all of the time. How much could you spend once a week to be with people? Maybe its just a simple cafe lunch with one person, or a hike, or something like that.
Dry-Accountant-926@reddit
I want everyone to respond to me the way you responded to OP. That was a very thoughtful response and said in a way that is easy to hear and comforting at the same time. You rock! Just thought you should know that.
Suspicious_Shake7966@reddit
I completely agree.
ChollyWheels@reddit
If you suddenly got a job in the Germany that was at least okay, would you stay? My guess is "yes." In that case, you should stay if you can. As another poster here pointed out, the warm welcome you get as a returning son may not last once you live here. And sudden fear of actual Fascism no longer seems like a sign of hysteria or paranoia. It's here.
There was a time in the world when getting by -- even in bad US times -- wasn't a big issue, at least in New York City. In the 1980s, rents were low ($350/mo in Manhattan -- I paid $500 and people thought I was crazy) and you could usually get SOME kind of job (proofreading on the nightshift, taxi driving, arranging shelves in a supermarket if necessary).
Being unemployed is one of the most dispiriting things there is, and wanting to find a secure base in such a situation is totally understandable. Unemployment is worse when your profession may be in jeopardy -- like taxi drivers now competing with robot cars, and musicians in the 1910s when the Victrola (phonograph) started making house-bands in hotels and live bands on radio a thing of the past.
AlwaysSaturday12@reddit
Its really fascist in America but it sounds like your economics are terrible. If you could be guaranteed a job in the states that would make me feel better about moving back but the states in undergoing its own hiring freeze in many sectors. Take this from someone who just moved away to Ecuador and is loving it but I would probably move back. I think you probably have an idea how bad America is right now with reddit being an echo chamber so do what's best for yourself. I would apply for jobs and wait for an offer though if it was me.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Yessir, applying like crazy now. So you moved to Ecuador but would move back to America?
AlwaysSaturday12@reddit
If I needed money and hated Ecuador I would. I was just trying to show that I was willing and happy to move away but your circumstances are different.
Millennial_Snowbird@reddit
I agree, let a job offer decide for you
lambdarina@reddit
Except they can rescind it as you are moving.
Millennial_Snowbird@reddit
This is true whether you’re moving or not. There are few guarantees in life.
Absolute_legend_@reddit
Lol no it's not.
tyrspawn@reddit
You would get crazy not to get your passport. Once you have it you can live anywhere in the EU which massively expands your possibility space. How about spain, Portugal, Italy, Poland etc? You can decide go move to any of those countries with zero paperwork. Focus on getting any job to finish your passport.
sailoorscout1986@reddit
There are no economic prospects in those countries
DistanceLess6027@reddit
America is better than ever thanks to Trump 👍🇺🇸 I'm doing fantastic and my streets are safe! All those people have derangement syndrome. I didn't vote for neither. Everything the haters said was going to happen never did as usual. Lying to Americans to gain a vote. The big boogie man isn't a real thing
robotbike2@reddit
Are you drunk?
H3scr0w@reddit
Hi!
Which tool do you use to calculate and simulate costing live in some famous countries?
I used personally this one which is particulary accurate and reliable: https://www.salarynettax.com
I wanted to know if others has used it before as well.
I planned to move from France to uae or Oman!
Tell me your famous list please !
LesnBOS@reddit
I lived in France and got so much more for my taxes and my salary than I did in Manhattan! I loved it very minute of it politically and financially. But I lost my job due to the financial crash and became so so lonely, and felt the way you do. I couldn’t find another job and I came back. I’ve regretted it every day since and it’s been over a decade. The US has nothing for us other than our friends and family- which are wonderful, but that alone isn’t enough- love doesn’t feed us or clothe us or pay for our healthcare or take care of us in our retirement. Love isn’t enough: we need both- a financial future, roof over our heads, safety, health, AND LOVE. And sometimes, we have to go without one or the other for a while.
And, my background is also IT and finance, and economically the US is in for a wave of tragedy economically like I haven’t seen (I was in France in ‘08).
Trick-Process6046@reddit
We are working to find a way out. It’s getting worse and worse here.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
what's getting worse, if I may ask?
Various-Grapefruit12@reddit
People have gone more and more feral. In my area the tension is constant and visceral
ddellarova3@reddit
Everything! The economy, rule of law is gone (he breaks the constitution on the daily), his cabinet is all boot-licking sycophants and the worst person for the job (e.g. RFK, Jr. heads HHS. He has no medical background and just fired 1000 researchers, scientists, and public health officials! That will certainly protect us from infectious diseases and the next pandemic!). He is trying to take over the Federal Reserve and force interest rates down instead of leaving money and banking policy up to the professional economists and Board members. He is federalizing National Guardsman and invading "blue" cities under the guise that he is fighting crime there. He has mobilized ICE (masked, unidentified thugs) to terrorize the Hispanic community, citing criminals running afoul of immigration laws. They're grabbing people just for fitting a profile! It's bad, very bad here. p.s. He is also using the government shutdown as and excuse to fire people rather than just furlough them until a deal is reached. Also threatening to not give furloughed federal employees back pay, when they do go back to work. There's more! This is just off the top of my head. Finally, here is a list of his harmful executive orders, if you need some reading material: https://cohen.house.gov/TrumpAdminTracker
TLDR: I'd recommend you find employment in Germany, even if it's not directly related and see how things shake out. If you didn't like Trump 1.0, you're gonna hate this administration and him even more! #tangerinetyrant
No-Interest1541@reddit
All of this!!!
Trick-Process6046@reddit
The felon has increased surveillance on our own citizens, he has declared war against anyone who is against him. He is a vengeful VICTIM. boohoo. It’s eerily like pre-war Germany. Our rights are slowly being eroded. The economy is flailing. Healthcare will be prohibitively expensive. Safely rails are being removed from disadvantaged communities. ICE goons are disgusting- disappearing people. Taking parents from their kids, taking children from their parents. All while the complicit media has capitulated to the sycophants drooling over their dear leader. The Supreme Court is corrupt. The Republicans are afraid to do anything but go along with his power grab. The felon and his family are stealing money from us and foreign governments are bribing him. Stay where you are. It’s only going to get worse here.
circle22woman@reddit
Exactly! And the most fascist thing? The police will come and visit you if they don't like what you post on social media.
Oh wait, that's Europe! Never mind.
tanyasstre64@reddit
That’s not happening in Europe
circle22woman@reddit
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/germany-online-hate-speech-prosecution-60-minutes/
Various-Grapefruit12@reddit
That is really tough, OP, I feel for you. I think you've got a lot of good advice already. I'd just echo - if you've never experienced reverse culture shock, read up on it. It WILL happen if you move back. The US you used to know is long gone. I came back in 2017 after only a year and a half away and I still don't recognize it and honestly it's a struggle everyday, STILL. The nice time you're having right now is essentially a honeymoon period for US version 2025.
That said, your health is really all you've got and that has to be the number one priority, always. Having family around can definitely be very helpful for that. But have you exhausted all possible options to help you stay in Germany/EU? Maybe you have a US friend or family who works remote who could go and stay with you and help you out? Can you see a therapist in German who could help make sure your don't have depression brain and aren't seeing that you have options?
NoLongerYonge@reddit
They're making time for you precisely because you're visiting. Once you move back, they'll be too busy with their own lives. I speak from experience.
ClockwiseSuicide@reddit
This.
RallySallyBear@reddit
As a fellow expat who sometimes misses home, even went through a personal life crisis while away and desperately wanted to move back and just be with my parents for awhile… in my opinion, do whatever you have to to get your EU passport, then do whatever you want. I finally reached my citizenship qualification period just last month, and I am SO grateful I stuck it out.
We take it for granted when living day-to-day lives, but it is SUCH a gift to be able to live and move around abroad even with just a touch more freedom; to have choice. That applies regardless of the US political situation, but certainly moreso in light of the political situation. Thousands of people would give anything, take a job as a janitor, if it meant they could leave. Don’t throw that away. I know it can suck, but take whatever job you need to, tech or not, and stick it out for that passport.
Also maybe read some posts of people who regret going home before locking in their right to leave. You might very well be loving the relative novelty of being home, everyone giving you more attention and time because it’s a temporary visit, and that might wear off if you return full time. Furthermore, it sounds like if you solve the income problem, you can return to being social and building a life.
ClockwiseSuicide@reddit
It’s funny… I have a friend who spent two years living in Japan. As someone who has been to Japan more than once, I was so jealous of her. She spent the last year of her time there wallowing in self pity about the lack of community she had there and was eager for her work contract to end so she could return to the U.S. and be with her “community.” She is now back and absolutely miserable. It has only been two months, and she tells me that she wishes she would’ve renewed her Japanese work permit and contract.
We always think the grass is greener on the other side
brehush97@reddit
I’m going to give you some really blunt and brutal feedback, it’s bad in the US. I’ll tell you what I’ve been doing. For the last 6-7 months I’ve been studying and researching the financial system and what’s happening in the United States, I will be publishing my research end of this month. I can tell you right now you are not prepared for what’s coming. One of my specialities is in Economics and Finance - you won’t find a job. My own modeling forecasts US unemployment at baseline 5.2% by February. Apologies if I seem insensitive I’m a bit autistic so hopefully this is okay. The thing about the German system is their unemployment rate seems higher than the US. This is wrong. They use a system similar to U6, which covers unemployment much more broadly. The TRU unemployment rate in America is sitting at 24%. The U6 unemployment rate is sitting at 8.5%. This will go up to 10%. 28% for TRU unemployment . We are negative jobs month on months. You will not find a job and you won’t find a place to live either if you’re not well off. The dollar has lost over 11% of its value. The stock market is going to crash like it’s 1929 or the Dot com bubble due to massively valuations sizes that make no sense. Inflation is about to blow and I mean blow blow. Goldman & several other research firms forecast about 55% of tariffs will be paid for by the consumer by Christmas. Your energy bills are going to skyrocket like it’s Christmas in July. You will also have insurance costs double and the healthcare system is about to break with the ACA credits expiring and the BBB massive funding cuts. This will force private insurers to increase rates due to excess strain on the health system. So what’s next? Pain. Economic pain like you can’t even imagine. Inflation will rise massively as interest rates are cut, so the bond market will revolt. Will it be hyper inflation? No. But will it be severe pain? Yes. No one is hiring, inflation is about to skyrocket, and what’s worse? Huge layoffs coming and a frozen job market. Remember all those hundreds of thousands of laid off government workers? Guess when their severance ended? September. So now you’re competing against even more candidates in a net negative job market. I also work in tech - we aren’t hiring. we are laying off. You’re better off staying put. Or finding a country you can stay low in. Don’t come back to America. It’s not only massive economically unstable but you’re coming into a politically volatile and violent environment.
brehush97@reddit
I’m moving to Germany but my soon husband is German and we’ve been back and forth the last two years for months at a time. He moved back now. I’m following him though I’ve worked remote for most of my career. Even with how bleak Germany is economically - it’s infinitely better off there than what’s happening in the US right now and I can’t wait to come back
PrettyInPerfectPinks@reddit
Personally would stay in Germany. US is getting really dangerous, really quickly. It is many, many multiples worse than when you left. Everyone needs an exit strategy. Few thoughts, do temp work? Let them fill your days with anything. Obviously the more true to your expertise the better. Maternity fill in, etc. You might end up finding a great company who values you and is willing to make or find you a role. In the meantime, you're making money. How about looking outside of Germany for work? Eg can you do IT for a Peruvian (aka random to you) company who lets you be full remote?
ButteryMales2@reddit
You posted in r/expats about the U.S.. Everyone is going to tell you to return to Germany, despite struggling with unemployment and likely language differences which make the job search harder than anything you’d encounter in the U.S.. Half the people commenting are trying to leave the U.S.
Do what’s best for you.
Plenty-Poet-9768@reddit
Maybe you should try Spain or Italy instead. A country where it’s easier to make friends in.
links_pajamas@reddit
IF your mental health is in a sturdy enough place, I'd stay in Europe till your permit stuff is figured out and maybe till after Trump is (hopefully) gone. My 2 cents.
goldmund22@reddit
Well since it already sounds like you are already back, can't you just stay for a few months and see how it goes? Apply to a bunch of jobs and see if anything happens if you like. I feel this way at the moment, although I am not an expat, it's more wanting to move somewhere else to change up the monotony of what life has become where I started, and to start anew in a way.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Yep that's why I'm back. Testing the waters and my future here.
DystopianGlitter@reddit
I’m not an expert yet, but I highly recommend staying. Here’s the thing. Right now the government is shut down because when Grijalva gets sworn in, she will be the last signature needed to release the unreacted Epstein files. Trump is absolutely in them, and everything will spiral after that. He will most certainly get impeached, will have the ability to invoke (I can’t remember which amendment) that impeach is not only the president but his entire administration. And will be able to start hopefully making things better. So I personally would say wait until the Epstein files have been released and see what happens here and then make your decision. But as it stands right now, I would not return. If there’s any way for you to make money in Germany right now, I say you do that make sure that you can actually feed yourself and unless you’re in Dire Straits about to lose your housing or something like that, just stay there.
psionic_moo@reddit
Why all the downvotes? He's correct.
As another person said: the tech market is brutal in the US right now.
CEOs are offshoring like crazy right after layoffs, and the interest rates are too high to take out loans to grow companies.
Plus: mango mussolini will try to declare martial law soon.
Stay put OP, you'll thank us later.
SimplyRoya@reddit
I wish I had your optimism.
Krish_1234@reddit
dream on.. none of it is happening.
DystopianGlitter@reddit
Yeah Well, something has to happen, because our government can’t stay shut down forever. Once it opens back up, homegirl gets sworn in and the rest is uncertain.
Noocawe@reddit
He's definitely not getting impeached again. What would be the point of it can't pass the Senate? They simply don't have the votes and many Democrats are trying to be pragmatic because they need to win or get re-elected on States that Trump won so it's a super long shot imo. Depending and just hoping that things will get better is pure cope... I'm not saying we shouldn't hope and work towards that, but we also got to set reasonable expectations. The last shut down Trump had lasted 35 days. I expect this one to last at least a month.
astaristorn@reddit
Trump could fiddle kids in the middle of the street and his supporters would cheer him on. There is nothing he can do that would deter their devotion.
dhsoxfan@reddit
I wish your predictions would come true, but in reality it turns out Trump is bulletproof even from provable charges of pedophelia.
Upstairs_Pianist6612@reddit
Honestly, everyone knows he's in the files, the girls that did testify said as much. Suffice to say, the right wing media will find some way to twist it and then Trump or the admin will have something huge happen that takes over the news cycles to bury it.
To answer the original question, I feel you. Although I left the US in 2008 during Bush but ended up coming back to Midwest for family reasons and got stuck. I understand that feeling of wanting to be with friends and community, what feels like safety.
I'd recommend feeling things out here since you're already doing that. It seems like you've already decided you need a new scene and most importantly, financial Security.
Do what you need to keep the permit active as a backup plan while you work on mental and financial health. As for safety in an increasingly authoritarian state, I'm not sure what ethnicity /sex/gender/etc you are. I'm assuming you're more liberal since you're worried about Trump and the government. The admin is attacking anyone that 'speaks' or 'acts out' against their directives or their alliances (Israel).
If you're worried about safety, then lay low from Social Media and if you do feel the need to post things, create anonymous account(s) to do it from. If you're Hispanic at all, then I'd recommend carrying a copy of birth certificate along with your regular ID when out and about.
Best of luck!
ExPatMike0728@reddit
I can't believe there are people who believe crap like this.
BRCnative@reddit
I would think that if you were in “Dire Straits”, you’d have enough money to live wherever you wanted to.
ChipsAreClips@reddit
I would like to subscribe to your fan fiction. I want to believe you’re right so bad, but I just have no faith left
reddit_tat@reddit
Good plan to test the waters. However, as others have noted, the job market in tech (and any white collar work) is awful. Employers are just not hiring. You will be competing with more experienced people who are more recently laid off. That doesn’t mean you won’t find something, but it will be hard.
As you may know, US unemployment benefits vary by state and are generally terrible compared to the EU. At best you get 50% of your state’s median wage for 26 weeks. If you are receiving unemployment benefits in Germany, you might as well do what you need to to keep them until you find a job. You should also look in other EU countries if you have work eligibility, as long as the work environment is English or German.
You mentioned that you will not easily be able to return if you leave now. It is best to keep your options open. Unemployment is very psychologically difficult, especially in a country like the US where people derive so much of their identity from their job. I’m not sure you would find anything easier here. And moving is expensive.
I know just treading water is hard. Keep searching for jobs here and in the EU. Perhaps get a roommate to help expenses? Or move to a smaller place. You cannot sign a lease here without a job; not sure what Germany is like. You also can’t get a car loan or lease. And you won’t have much of a credit score, which every lender and landlord will want to see. Just saying that if you have secure housing and even a small income from unemployment benefits in Germany, you might be better off there while you search. (Oh, and then there is health insurance.) Try to keep your spirits up by volunteering at an organization that does something you like: animal shelter, pro-democracy groups, helping elderly or disabled kids, trail maintenance, etc. Get outside a lot. Good luck!
cararra@reddit
Please stay gone we have enough people who don’t get it here
fseahunt@reddit
I would wait but what you do is up to you.
But things haven't even gotten close to the level they want. I would hate for you to regret moving back.
I hope you figure it out and it works well for you.
Holiday_Button_7340@reddit
HAHAHA bro stop watching the news. Life with Trump is pretty sweet. You probably need a testosterone prescription
Gingerbutt81@reddit
How soon could you become a citizen in Germany? My wife and I are feeling similarly to you and from the USA but decided it’s worth staying in Spain for 2 more years to become a citizen so we can come back easily at some point if we want to.
SimplyRoya@reddit
I understand you oh so well. I moved back to Switzerland with my son this year after we saw trump going full-on fascist in his second term. Even though I grew up in Switzerland, I don't feel at home anymore. I miss Los Angeles so much. I miss the people, the climate, the culture, the friendliness... everything. I feel like Covid really hit Europe hard and people are just all sad and depressed. it's nothing like I knew it to be. Everyone is stressed out of their minds, nobody ever smiles. I really want to go back to LA.
I do feel though, that the right move would be to wait until trump is gone. I don't think this political climate is safe for anyone.
thenew-supreme@reddit
In my opinion you should start some hobbies in Germany and give it one more shot. Once Trump is out of office, come home. You can also take trips a few times a year home as I know Germany gives a a goood vacation package.
itsmayanotmaja@reddit
Get a job outside of your career path if you can and try to stick it out. You can do this. The hurdles in life shape us. If you can get your EU citizenship in the next little while why not go for it?
Bearblood77@reddit
I do want to shed light on the fact that job hunting feels awful everywhere right now. I’m licensed and certified for various upper level careers and I can’t even get my foot in the door for an interview here in the states. I know things feel gloom there, but I believe you made the right decision as fascism is greatly on the rise
freyjaspethuuman@reddit
Don't come back until Trump is gone. Safety first. Germany has universal healthcare, are you able to access mental health services?
CavalloPazzo777@reddit
Maybe third option? Other EU country, a fresh start, like Spain or Italy, lower costs of living and if you are a freelancer you can try to get income from abroad.
No-Tip3654@reddit
Hey, this comment is more of an experiment. I'd love to hear an honest answer from you. your post gives off the impression that Trump and the republican party as a whole want some kind of neofeudal state. Don't you think that the democratic party are just as powerhungry?
SchizoAction@reddit
Sounds like you should go home. For now anyway. As far the whole Trump = Fascism thing..dude, America has been a fascist nation for well over a hundred years, and will most likely continue to be for the foreseeable future, but just like any other fascist country it only rears its ugly head back and strikes down on those it determines to be a threat to the bourgeois/capitalist class grip on the power it has on our society. As long as you don’t make any waves you should be fine.
lambdarina@reddit
The market in the US for tech is pretty terrible right now. Actually the job market in general unless you work specifically in AI and want to move to the Bay Area to commute to the office 3+ days per week (or on 996 schedule). Even then you will compete with a ton of people laid off from the giant companies. All that and the daily wtf moments of the current administration or delightful stories of the tech leaders going all in on Trump and Christian Nationalism. You really really sure about coming back to this now of all times??
Tardislass@reddit
Have you seen what’s happening in Germany. Job market sucks housing is high and manufacturing has slowed.
Being with family is honestly more important. And frankly getting out isn’t always the best scenario. I hope OP asks in another forum as Reddit isn’t RL. In fact most people in my daily life have never visited it.
lambdarina@reddit
That may be the case, but for the tech workers in the US the change has been shocking. This was the industry you could count on rolling into a new good paying job within a couple weeks for decades. It is very hard to keep afloat when the below market rent is still over $3k per month (only a little less in non-tech markets) and there is no safety net. I would want a warning if I were in OP’s situation, especially as friends and family almost always want us to come back regardless of whether it is truly good for us or not long term. These people miss us. The tech industry may be a shocker right now with lots of unemployed engineers still around from when 150k of them were laid off last year.
jopa191@reddit
You'll be good back in your country USA, with your real friends and family!
CaymanCigars@reddit
Expat in the Caribbean here. Left the US in 2019 for exactly the opposite reasons as you lol. I also worked in politics for many years so I saw the decline of the whole thing. Couldn't believe that I timed it so perfectly to be out before Covid hit.
For what it's worth - IMO you left a country that was in the initial symptoms of the first world disease, and relocated to a country that was in the advanced stages of it. If the politics/societal issues bother you enough to pick up your life and move, as I did, you need to go some place actually different - not just a different flavor of the same thing.
If you are in tech and are familiar with consulting/freelancing you are golden. You can work from anywhere and there has never been a better time to make your own way in this business. I've been a programmer for 30 years and have been building my freelancing client base since I left the US. Take that money you are saving and find yourself a nice third world country with decent Internet and ACTUALLY get away from the first world. Find a place with real expats - where people have traded all the consumerism and BS of the first world for the real world. It's absolutely glorious.
Feel free to message me if you want to talk more. I get what you are going through.
bigvibes@reddit
What kind of work do you do?
bum-ditty@reddit
8 years, you’re eligible for dual US/DE citizenship! Would you be ok sticking it out til that paperwork goes through? That gives you so many options, including the option to move to a totally different country in the EU later on.
jwp42@reddit
I'm not an expat (I'm hoping to change that) but I work in tech. The job market is tough in the US too. I don't know how it compares to Germany, but it's bad here. I know rock star ex-coworkers out of work for a year or two. Most successes in the job hunt seem to be through your network or through LinkedIn recruiters looking for people to for contact jobs. One thing to consider is maybe seeing if you actually can get a job in the US before deciding to move back.
InitialEnthusiasm316@reddit
I second this. Tech job market it rough in the US: everyday I open LinkedIn I see former colleagues who are absolutely brilliant posting « open for work opportunities »… feel like it hasn’t changed since COVID. I’m actually an immigrant who lives and works in the US. I’m looking to move to EU for political reasons and to have a better work/life balance, find friends and community (something I find very difficult to find here). With that being said I’d only move if I could secure a job offer first. Hard as it may be being somewhere you feel you don’t belong, I think it’s safest approach (especially with depleted savings, etc). See if you can get a job here, moving is always an added expense and social benefits in Europe, Germany in particular, are way better than here. It also depends on your age, I’d say. I know people may have a different take on this but in my experience America is great for building wealth but not so much for being happy/ having community. Europe is way more comfortable place for retirement and social life. I wish you all the best in your search, and hope you can strike a balance you are looking for and feel fulfilled in whatever place you end up at!
WanderingSondering@reddit
This is what I was going to say too. My friend works as a software developer for Comcast and there have been several layoffs in the past few years despite record profits and with AI being implemented the layoffs are only getting worse. The market is INSANELY competitive- I'm talking about people with years of GOOD work experience struggling to find jobs. I really don't think you're going to have an easier time finding work here. Not to mention the lack of work life balance and job security.
StillEmotional@reddit
As someone who moved back home to their home state from a different state, all of that support and all of that love and all of that yay! You’re coming home! we’re gonna spend so much time together! evaporated. After the initial excitement wore off, I basically got put on the back burner and ignored. You won’t fit back into their life as easily as you think they will, they have new routines and new timelines that they have made without you.
Proud_Possibility256@reddit
I heard that the tech job market is tough right now in the States. But Germany is big on building China relations now, especially when it comes to tech companies. Maybe it's worth looking into that? Working for a German company in Asia?
redbat21@reddit
You let the Internet and MSM brainwash you into upending your life. Good thing you got going for you is that you had enough drive to go through with it and experience life in another country which many people in their lifetime won't have the chance or will to do. I think you should channel that innate drive you have into something more positive for yourself, get off social media, and mentally reset your mind and find your zen.
msmilah@reddit
Bad time economically to move back, but support of family and friends is vital. Might not be so great there in a minute either.
Epicrato@reddit
There is absolutely nothing about the Trump admin that will affect you in any way. Maybe you are watching too much of the wrong news.
FuzzySpring4673@reddit
Working in Tech or any white collar job these days is challenging with the threat of AI and the unstable global economy. I left my life in tech to retrain in blue collar, maybe an idea and something you could do while staying with friends and family.
lessoner@reddit
Are you eligible for German citizenship after that long a residency period? If you could get that taken care of before coming back, I feel like that would be a good thing to have in your back pocket should things get worse in the US. An online search seems to show that 5 years is the residency requirement? https://www.einbürgerung.de/fragebogen.php?l=en
Not saying whether to stay in Germany or move back to the US, but given the amount of time you've spent there, I feel like having the extra passport in your back pocket before you go is wise.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately, because of a lack of income, I think I would be disqualified... otherwise, I could.
lessoner@reddit
I wonder if you could take a job not in your field just to pay just enough bills and qualify, something basic but not something you want to do long term.
An EU passport is just such valuable insurance that it would be a shame to have to start over if you changed your mind once back in the US, or if you start to feel unsafe in the US.
Either way best of luck to you, I really hope it works out.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
yeah, I'm strongly considering this too, thank you
retrosenescent@reddit
Don't you dare move back to the US without an EU passport. That would be the dumbest thing you could possibly do
formerlyfed@reddit
If I were you, I’d do whatever it takes to get citizenship, then leave. That way if you regret your choice you can go back
Estrelx@reddit
Was going to say this. I think you're so close to such a useful set of rights, and it keeps the door open for you and any future family you might have.
retrosenescent@reddit
Better option: your idiot friends should join you in Germany
Kind_Tone3638@reddit
I heard the job market is awful in Germany right now. Probably every where. If there’s nothing in Germany that ties you there then leave. Is one of the hardest places to integrate as a foreigner. And the thread fascism is every where. I hope you the best.
No-Interest1541@reddit
Why another country? The world is your European oyster right now. :-) I would love to be in your position.
msszenzy@reddit
Maybe if you can I would wait till the 2026 mid terms, just to see what kind of outcome they'll have.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Honestly, I think abstract political feelings that you don't like a particular political leader are a very weak reason to leave a country.
As opposed to longer term concrete QoL political realities which do affect your life on a daily basis which are a good reason.
I'm British and I certainly wouldn't base my decision on whether I like Keir Starmer, Nigel Farage (or before that Rishi Sunak etc).
I base it on what I get paid, how much tax I pay, and what I get in return for that tax.
In the uk, that wasn't a good return for me under the conservatives, has got markedly worse under Labour, and I don't expect it to get any better under reform.
So I'm not going to go back no matter who is in charge.
Don't get emotionally invested in politics. Look out for number one, as nobody else is going to.
The U.S. isn't really any different under Trump 2.0 than under Biden than under Trump 1.0
tanyasstre64@reddit
I’m sorry but I disagree completely with this. The politics of a country most definitely should determine where you live.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
I agree with that to the extent you are talking about long term Overton window and not overly focussed on the here and now
justinhammerpants@reddit
Agree entirely regarding the U.K. everything feels like it is in a decline here, it gets markedly worse every year. I’m trying to leave within the next few.
BibliophileBroad@reddit
I hear what you're saying, but folks aren't trying to leave the U.S. just because they "don't like" Trump. Have you seen what's going on in the U.S.? If things keep going the way they are, we'll end up under fascism. We've seen that show before, and folks fled that, too, and not because they just "didn't like" the politicians. Politicians make all the difference when it comes to freedom and such. As an African-American, I have older family members who lived under politicians who enforced Jim Crow decades ago. They fled the South, and not just because "they didn't like" the politicians - it was crushing oppression.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
And that makes absolute sense.
I'm not arguing one shouldn't move where you are being treated like crap year after year after year and where there is little prospect of things changing, quite the reverse - that's the exact situation when you should move.
I'm arguing that one should filter signal from noise. Like your ancestors had material things happen to them every day of their life. Most Americans are not in that situation with Donald Trump.
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
Thank you for being a voice of sound, sane, actual reason.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Yes, of course. It was more about concrete QoL realities. Healthcare was breaking my bank, the lack of public transportation, rents being out of control, etc. It was just too unstable for me.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Absolutely if on those metrics the U.S. doesn't work for you don't go back, because I can't imagine the healthcare and public transport realities have materially changed.
Just don't make your life a referendum on the Donald or anyone else.
Make it about you and your QiL.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
but also, I'm reconsidering this now because I've gained enough experience to be able to earn enough to not let these be such a big factor...
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
facts, thank you for that framing.
Southeastern18@reddit
First, get any job to have some stable income, work on your DE citizenship, learn German if you don’t know it yet, meet some nice European lady, preferably one that works for an airline, this will give you cheap tickets so you can visit your family in US more often and then see if you still want to leave. Real people with real smiles when there is a reason to smile, beautiful medieval cities, old cultures, 5 different countries just 5 hours driving away, great and healthy food, work-life balance, cafes, real freedom, and so on.. you will never have that in US under any president.
anotherboringdj@reddit
If you feel that you need to move, then do it! You have one life, you have to live it for your own happiness!
campa-van@reddit
If you have an Irish born grandparent you can get EU citizenship. https://www.ireland.ie/en/dfa/citizenship/born-abroad/registering-a-foreign-birth/
Philosopher19760315@reddit
‘Back in 2017, Trump took office and I took that as a signal to leave the country.’ What was the signal, if I may ask?
Nomorevaping707@reddit
It’s up to you, but we are leaving the country due to the decline in our mental health watching the disappearance of democracy and rise of the American Oligarchs
Ralph-Kramden@reddit
Au revoir🤣🤣
Pillow_fort001@reddit
It sounds like you’re stuck in a rut and the good news is, it won’t last forever. It also sounds like you’re homesick, which is normal, and you’re spending some time at home to soak up love from friends and family.
If I were you, I would stay in the EU, but maybe leave Germany. Are there remote jobs in other countries you could apply to? As an American only dreaming of ever finding a pathway to live and work in Europe, I would advise you not to give up. Maybe try a meetup to meet other expats and meet other people who understand you. That might lead to new opportunities.
There are always ways to improve your situation, you just need to be clear on what you’re trying to do. I would worry that leaving Europe and coming back would make you feel just as lost and you’d regret it. Speaking from personal experience.
yellowfourteen@reddit
Ireland has a lot of American tech companies EU HQs. Also the use of English may help your job search
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Pay is crap and tax is high.
It's no better than the UK.
campa-van@reddit
Craic is better
formerlyfed@reddit
It’s a lot worse IMO
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Why?
It seems to me very similar in that pay is perhaps a smidgen (say 5%) higher but tax and CoL also a little higher.
What makes it worse
formerlyfed@reddit
Things that are a lot worse: weather, job market outside of tech, public transportation (but also traffic is also terrible in Dublin), housing crisis (even though this is also really bad in the UK), the capital city is soooo much smaller so there’s so much less to do and a much less thick job market but also people still have long commutes to work bc of the housing/transport/traffic situation. London is a major global city and Dublin is not.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
Yeah the weather is appalling.
It's what mainland Europeans think the UKs weather is.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
I love the Irish. But oh boy, do I struggle a LOT to understand their accent.
brokenpipe@reddit
Give it 6 months. I’ve been in NL again for 10 years and work regularly with the Irish and Scottish. I fully understand them now. My wife, on the other hand, still requires subtitles turned on whenever we watch a show with an Irish or Scottish actor 😅
torenvalk@reddit
How good is your German then?
slughuntress@reddit
And the amount of rain there is depressing
filmAF@reddit
trump was gone for four years. why didn't you go back then?
do you have jobs in the US?
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
I was doing well in Germany during Biden. I was actually planning on returning this year, but then Trump returned...
DropAccording5878@reddit
I recently returned early from Germany back to the US. So, I've lived in both worlds. It is as bad as others have posted in the US. I miss being in the bubble and safety of Germany. However, what I've realized during my time in Europe is that every place has its pro and cons. In the US, I'm near my family and friends who are supportive. But, once you decide to stay long term you will realize everyone has their own life. In your post, you mentioned education, if you can enroll in school and return back to Germany, if that is even an option you should. This regime is systematically destroying America. Under this administration, I don't foresee it getting better. Weigh all your options. Have you thought of living elsewhere there are other less expensive countries you can split your time between like Albania, Bulgaria, Greece, or Georgia. It’s a difficult position to be in not having a full time gig. More so, you also have to take care of yourself and your mental health. Ultimately, you have to make the decision that fits where you are in life. Understanding that no matter which decision you make each location will have its unique challenges.
mtngrrl108@reddit
My (former) tech-work friends in US and abroad are having to rethink their vocations. One of them went to chef school, now happy in the EU doing that. The reasoning of many of my tech friends who are thinking outside the box is that they need to retrain and re-educate themselves, perhaps completely out of the box to another career. Most of them who have changed career pathways are not making as much money, but they say that they are happier. Just a thought...maybe don't throw away your EU status, but just remake yourself so you can feel more connected with people and the flow of life, even if the job is lower paying???
Emergency_Mirror_627@reddit
I would try to get dual citizenship first before officially leaving. I’m in the opposite boat…lived in Italy and Croatia for 5 years and then South Korea for a year. Moved back to the states and immediately regretted it…now trying to relocate back. Doing it in the next 12 months no matter what. Looking for work as well and it’s very difficult in the states!
Morning_Glory1544@reddit
Unemployed in the EU is still better than working here in the U.S. I’d wait until Trump is gone. But that is assuming he will leave office if not elected. The election will likely be rigged in his favor, anyway. #Project2025 is only going to get uglier here in the coming months and years.😢
Mysterious-Job5381@reddit
Come back, stay with your parents and save money, and join us in the fight against Trump.
EmptyScarcity6950@reddit
Goofy lib
OutrageousCat8530@reddit
Stay in Europe this is not the time to return to the us.
WizardyoureaHarry@reddit
Reminder of what you're returning to:
Financial Death: You die chasing a life you can't afford. Drowning in bills, buried in debt, chasing dreams that feel just outta reach. It's like running on a treadmill that never stops.
Nutritional Death: You die from the inside out. Grocery stores push products, not real food. Nothing that truly fuels your body the way it was meant to be fed.
Mental Death: You die in silence. Burnt out, stressed out, stuck on repeat. You go numb. Just getting through the day, not really living. You become a ghost in your own life.
Cultural Death: We've lost our sense of togetherness. No unity, no real celebration. The spirit is gone. Architecture feels soulless People are divided online, in person, everywhere. Nothing feels sacred.
Communal Death: Everything's privatized. Nothing belongs to the people. No real community, no shared spaces, no common ground. Just endless consumption. A society like that eats itself alive. No wonder we're all sick.
yesavery@reddit
LOL
Anonymous30005000@reddit
So you are already back in the U.S.? And not socializing or seeing all the supposed friends and family who encouraged you to move back? Doesn’t that sort of answer it for you? I’d start to get the depression treated while you’re in the U.S. and then try to get a job in Germany again and get your life back on track. Only relocate to the US permanently if your trip truly proves your life is better there. Depression can distort our view and where we place blame for things. I moved across the country to be closer to family and they ended up never making time for me! I doubt I would move back home if I had papers in a foreign country if it was just for the idea of old friends and family who talk the big talk but don’t actually make time for you.
biscuts-man@reddit
There is no “threat of fascism”. Sure, some of trumps policy’s are stupid, but if you just move here and turn off the news nothing is different in day to day life than from pre trump era. Don’t be fooled by the news, the USA is still the greatest place to live and work on earth for 99% of people. Don’t let politics stop your quality of life.
Europe is also facing a much, much darker future than the US right now. Most Americans that don’t like trump have optimism things will just revert back to normal after his presidency. Europe is too far gone, between globalist influence and mass, non integrated Islamic immigration, is a MUCH worse place to live over the next decade.
polymathdoc@reddit
I would say go back to Germany,if you can speak German and can get a job in Germany it would be better.
amiralko@reddit
Stay at least till you get your permit. You'll regret not doing it if you don't.
Direct-Attention-712@reddit
Family iis everythiing........people usually learn that on theiir deathbed.
DearDescription6915@reddit
Almost every sector in the USA economy is down double digits year over year in terms of hiring. The tyrannical leader we have had suppressed the labor reports, but chief economist at indeed shared data yesterday
Scientific R&D — the engine of innovation, public health, and tech progress — is collapsing. Down almost 25%.
Childcare, education, and healthcare are all sharply down, meaning the sectors that literally sustain people and knowledge are suffering the most. And helps explain why large swaths of moms are getting pushed out of the workforce.
The only sector slightly up is Banking & Finance (+1.6%), underscoring how lopsided priorities have become.
If you can live in the USA for free or don't care about a menial job, it may be doable to exist. Sounds like you're not really LIVING in Germany now and you're not about to get work.
Status-Effort-9380@reddit
What about a different EU country?
tanyasstre64@reddit
Exactly! You need warmth, sunshine and friendly people.
crazycholesterol@reddit
Thank you for your post. Ask yourself the question in reverse: why should you stay in Germany? Are those ties (love, friends, job, etc) benefitting or dragging you in some way? Emigrating may have been a good choice in its time for your personal growth, but by your explanation its clear that you are overstaying.
I feel you because I also emigrated for years and then returned to my home country because things were not working out for me. And I did that despite I also detest my country's government. But no country in the world can be reduced to its current political situation.
chillinginmyhammock@reddit
If you actually want an answer to what you should do: I say you should go home, work for a little, save, gain new skills, move to a “warm” country, and try again. Forget Germany, you tried it and it didn’t work as planned, and that’s ok. After researching Germany the BIGGEST reason I decided not to go live there was because of how difficult expats said it was to make friends and integrate in their culture. Not to mention the weather is depressing so when you’re actually depressed, that can make you feel worst. And don’t worry about Trump, the best place to fight Fascism, is at its core, Americans are defiant and fighters, we will be ok. Also, lately, several European countries are leaning into fascism as well, Trump isn’t the only one, and these things can change every election, in any country. Let passion drive you, not fear. But fear is real, what better comfort in facing it with your love ones, rather than alone? There’s only so much we can control as individuals. We can control how we feel about things, how to manage our stress and anxiety, how to validate and rationalize our fears. How to keep trying and not give up. It is ok to have these setbacks, rebuild, and try again. I pray you find peace, comfort, and strength in all that you are facing no matter how small or big. But remember not to give up on your passions and dreams. Just rebuild in peace ❤️
tanyasstre64@reddit
Don’t leave yet. They are correct about Trump and also the job market in the States is not good. I have applied to over 200 places to find a job since June and I’m not the only one. With added tariffs it’ll become even harder. I suggest that you might hang in there, change cities or even countries. Spain, Portugal or Italy…or as you are in Tech, maybe look at Dublin where you’ll find warm people. You need better weather or warmer people is what I think. I lived in Italy for 26 years and England for 5 so I’ve been all over. The U.S. is in decline and you are lucky to be set up elsewhere. Good luck
Stuffthatpig@reddit
Message me. I moved back from NL after 7 years. It's not 100% a slam dunk but it was necessary.
lieutenantbunbun@reddit
Oh gosh considering the same
WadeDRubicon@reddit
Did the same move, US to DE, only in 2019. I'm moving back to the US next summer. Would do it sooner, but have to wait for my insurance to become active there again.
I literally can't afford to live here anymore. I've been looking for an apartment for two years. The D-ticket's gone up 29% in 14 months. The food pantry stopped accepting clients during COVID and never started again. The people are rude, the infrastructure is disability-hostile, and the medical system is trans-hostile.
madpiratebippy@reddit
The tech field in the US is a nightmare to get hired in right now. Just for information about that- there’s been rounds of layoffs at FAaNG and other big tech companies so the pickings for jobs are slim and the competition is insane.
its1968okwar@reddit
The niceness you feel right now, the comfort of being absolutely at home and all these social connections might not last once you actually move home. People won't have time for hanging out, the things that feel comforting now will just feel boring, the people you meet daily will feel narrow minded etc. Or at least that was my experience. I left after being home for a year despite my career and financial future looking much better if I didn't leave. I just couldn't fit into that box anymore. It was strange , I felt like I lost my home in some way, that from now on there would be no returning. It all worked out in the end though.
justanotherlostgirl@reddit
This was my experience when unemployed - people don't have as much time for you. It's the unemployed people making time for one another that really struck me.
mooncandys_magic@reddit
It's getting real bad here in the US. Ice is kidnapping people and no longer care about the law. He sent troops to Chicago and Ice is terrorizing Portland bc they're are apparently "war torn".
Impressive_Device_72@reddit
Did the same thing. Move back to the USA after 3 years.
Lechem81@reddit
Fascism - this can’t be a serious post 😂😂 🤡
circle22woman@reddit
Soros said so!!!
winter-wolf@reddit
Hey, message me if you want, but I'm in the process of moving back from Germany after 4 years.
https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/1nl0vv5/burnt_out_in_berlin_after_4_years_stay_in_europe/
I posted this a few weeks ago. And now I just told my landlord I'm leaving and have startled to cancel contracts. Honestly, I'm feeling relief. I can't make it another winter in Berlin. Germany is great but I had my experience and it's time to return home. I'm moving to the mountains, I'm going to join a pickleball club, get involved in local politics and trail-building, join a local choir - wow there's honestly just SO much that will be SO easy to do now that I'm back in my home culture and using my native language. I just lived life on hard mode for 4 years and that was GREAT for personal development, but I'm burnt out and it's time to listen to my body.
I think what you and I are feeling is this disconnect, between being abroad and having the privilege to understand what makes America special and tick, and that being thrust up against our more online-inclined friends who have been stewing in the toxic discourse for years now, so they literally cannot see a single positive thing about the country, they see no future in it, and they are shocked someone would want to return from a country that somehow has this sterling worldwide reputation that is honestly built up from some fairly strong myths ("german efficiency").
Well, you can't listen to those people, they don't know you are what you've been through, and how YOU are feeling. Only YOU know you.
I think the top comment gives some good advice, I would give you another exercise - right one letter to yourself as if you were leaving Germany, and one as if you were staying. Read them and see which one resonates to you the most. Which one feels "fake" to right? TBH I don't actually really love the pros / cons list comparisons, because I personally tend to just over-intellectualize things and tie myself into knots thinking about whether something is actually a pro or a con. I'd rather skip all that and listen to my gut.
It's similar to a breakup actually, ha.. listen to your gut man. You'll figure it out. You've got the answers you need already. Good luck.
praguer56@reddit
Any chance you could find an EOR company and do contract work for US companies from the comfort of Germany?
sneeky_seer@reddit
You are essentially on vacation, visiting family. So of course it’s nice. But would it be easier to get a job in the US? Would you be able to get a job and benefits that really provide stability and security? You said you can work anywhere in the EU. Did you try looking for jobs elsewhere other than Germany? It’s also important to consider whether moving back would close the door for you in the EU. If you got citizenship its obviously not a concern but if you have residency only, you can lose it. Are you ok with that?
NiceCandle5357@reddit
I came back this year. If you have your papers you could always leave again later.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Well, I would have to forfeit my permit and start from scratch again, and that's too big of a hurdle to jump again...
NiceCandle5357@reddit
In that case don't make this decision lightly.
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
How close are you to German citizenship?
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
I need income to prove I can support myself, but otherwise eligible.
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
I would become a German citizen first and then move back to America afterwards.
This way you could always have the option. Otherwise, you're throwing everything away.
Get a warehouse job and rent a room if you need to for that last bit of time needed to pull it off.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
this is what 51% of me is feeling...
TootsEug@reddit
It’s imperative you make this decision out of REASON and not out of emotion. Really think about this, perhaps make a legitimate LIST of the pros and cons. I know if it were me…. I’d get that citizenship in my back pocket first!! I think if you don’t, you’ll regret it for the rest of your life! As someone else said, it’s just damn good insurance!!!! Good luck to you!
Catladylove99@reddit
You would be absolutely insane to throw that opportunity away, especially now. Just get a job, any job, if that’s what’s required, even if it’s not in your regular field, and get the citizenship. Then do whatever you want.
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
I live in Canada and I am not leaving this country short of a US invasion until I have my citizenship here.
PureOrdinary2822@reddit
Can you talk with an expat service to make sure this part is true? I have been told the only way to get a job in Germany or Europe generally is to know someone. That takes networking. Maybe you could go to school there? How is your German?
Evening_Revenue_1459@reddit
You're lacking direction. You need a goal or several of them. You need to be working towards something.
Other redditors have already mentioned getting the citizenship. This is a big goal. It will also help you with landing a (good) job easier. And you will feel more integrated.
But it's a 2-year commitment. At least. Thing is, you dont look that great on paper. How well do you speak German? Do you have a certificate to prove that? (It's Germany, they need certifcates for everything). I would advise on taking a higher level, B2 or even C1, this will definitely impress the authorities. It will also help you personally and professionally, when you speak the language well.
I'm not 100% sure, but you'd also need to be out of the probation period when you apply.
So this is what I'd do:
Get a stable job now and stay there until you get the citizenship.
Start studying for the B1, but ideally B2 or C1 German certificate. It's an exam like all others and you need to study in order to pass it. Not super complicated though.
Get an appointment now for the Einbürgerungstest. If you live in a big city, it takes months to find an open slot. Study for the test. It's 300 multiple-answer questions, you'll get only 40 or so. Easy.
Make an appointment for the language exam. B1 and C1 are always fully booked (one is for the resident's permit/citizenship and the other for University).
Once you have the language certificate, test and have been working for 6 months you can apply for the passport. The answer will take a few months, i've heard cases of 1+ years, especially if you dont have a C-level language ceritificate, are not married nor have kids here and have not been working in a stable job for years.
ExpensiveTomorrow822@reddit
Are you looking for jobs outside Germany? UK,NL,PL &CH are much better job markets right now, for example.
tylerthe-theatre@reddit
You want to move back now... are you sure?
Careful_Ad5394@reddit
Moving country because of trump is retarded.
Dangerous-Ad-1298@reddit
do you need to stay in Germany or are you applying for roles in other countries in the EU? the netherlands may be a better fit for you and everyone speaks English. Or if it’s not EU citizenship you want, you could try the UK
FR-DE-ES@reddit
I'm ex-Californian working in Germany's tech investment sector the last 10 years, had lived in 4 German states, still work in Frankfurt once a month. A few things to factor into your decision-making:
1) German economic downturn has no recovery in sight, unemployement is at 14 year high at the moment, job market is atrocious even for experienced German natives with solid German graduate degrees. Nowadays it is not uncommon to see even pure tech jobs want C1 German. Tech job market won't get better any time soon.
2) Despite being there 8 years and had established social/professional network, you said "I've struggled to fully integrate to their culture". If your goal is to stay long enough to get the passport, it would be a good idea to talk to expert now to find out how your many job gaps would impact your citizenship application, instead of wating 18+ months to be surprised by a rejection. Knowing how many more years you would need to suck it up in Germany to finally get that passport would better enable you to decide if this is worth it.
3) Though you currently have the right to work in other EU countires, you unfortunately face the language disadvantage when competing with native-speakers.
Good luck to you!
AmexNomad@reddit
Come live in Greece. Work online. I arrived in 2016 after Trump 1.0. Zero regrets.
iamateetotalist@reddit
Are you at B1 level in German? If you’ve resided there for 8 years, I’d probably apply for citizenship now and just wait it out… that way, you can always come back or move to a different EU/EFTA country. Germany might not be for you but maybe somewhere else in Europe. Best of luck on your decision!
dolphunsan@reddit
Currently in Europe for travel, and even my wife's father(french) says we have better opportunities in the US for now. When we decide to have kids, we'll probably start splitting time between France and the US.
Right now, we're in Berlin, and food seems just as expensive, if not more, than where we live back home, and we absolutely live in a bubble, think northern Rockies. Also weed is way more expensive. My guess is everything is. It's giving us a good perspective for sure.
And on a final note, as much as I am disgusted by a lot of our country and the current political situation. I can't help but think that fleeing isn't going to help at all. This country was built by people who refused to be controlled, people who fled their shitty pasts, to create a new life. If everyone flees, who will stand up against this facist regime?
julieCivil@reddit
Gut reaction from your post: just move home. Having familial and friend support is vastly underrated and it sounds like that's what you need right now.
Civil-Nose-9405@reddit
Germany is a miserable and depressing place with miserable and antagonistic inhabitants. Spending too much time in Germany will definitely skew your outlook towards a more negative one because the general attitude of the people there starts to rub off on you. I’d look into other countries in Europe, but moving back to the USA it’s probably easier for you. I personally think the USA will go through a bit of an ugly phase but I doubt that it will transform into a full blown dictatorship, the country is too big, too diverse and too non-cohesive for that.
PrettyPleaseYo@reddit
Health comes first. What is best for your health?
Neuroticcuriosity@reddit
I had a friend that was in your same position a few years ago and decided to make the move back to the States. She's now horribly regretting that decision as she desperately tries to get back out before it goes full fascist dictatorship, now with the accumulated debt she accrued from just 2 years back in the States.
So I would advise not moving back. However, if you're really struggling in Germany... Why not try another EU country? Maybe somewhere with a different cultural background that will help you feel more included? I've heard Spain and Italy are both lovely, though it would depend on your field and the job market.
mintpomegranate@reddit
fUlL fAsCiSt DiCtAtOrShIp!! hurrrr. Durrrr.
Redditor moment.
Tardislass@reddit
Keep applying for jobs in both places but stay longer and get your head and body healed. Being an expat is hard and what people don’t realize is that Europe has the same unemployment issues as the US or worse for tech. And honestly as loco as Trump is sometimes you need family and friends.
If you can, stay in America until the New Year and then decide how your 2026 will go.
lesllle@reddit
If you can get a job in the US and live in a bubble area that has a buffer from the current administrations chaos, then go back to the US. If you want to leave again, you will find another way to get another permit, but there is no point in living abroad if it turns you in to a hermit. Unless you like being a hermit, but it doesn't sound like it.
Wiechu@reddit
let me put it like this:
Lovely Lady has US citizenship and could get a job in her field in the US instantly. She actually rejected roles that required her to move to the US in favor of staying in Europe because, i quote, 'there is no way i am moving there right now'.
Oh and just for the record - she is ex army and we had several talks about what is currently going on in the US.
Beneficial_Roof212@reddit
Maybe Canada would be a good balance if you could pull it off? You’d be closer to home and the culture would be a lot more like what you’re used to, but you wouldn’t have to deal with US politics or the practical downsides of living in America.
Bethjam@reddit
I can't answer but things to consider. We are under a fascist regime already. It is going to get significantly uglier. Many people are looking for ways out. Also, can't you focus on improving your social life and career? Maybe see a therapist, mentor, coach?
Unusual-Effective-69@reddit
May I ask … When you said you struggled to fully integrate their culture .. does it make you feel more compassionate about U.S. immigrate’s life? And feel the pain of discrimination and punishment for them .. ? That’s what I feel “some” American are lacking.. the empathy .. and the result is “America first “ mindset (MAGA) .. become the current America now
mt80@reddit
The job market in the US is abysmal. White collar workers can’t find work anywhere.
If you’re able to lock in something before leaving then go for it. But the political landscape is destroying the remaining national social benefits we have left
formerlyfed@reddit
The job market is even more abysmal in Europe
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
Unemployment is around 4.5% in the US. Spain is like 10.5%, Canada is over 7%, etc. It is relative. The US is in a better position than many other countries when it comes to their employment numbers right now.
Literally not leaving my job for the next couple of years because I wouldn't be able to find one with similar or better pay or at all with how weak the Canadian job market is.
Meanwhile, I could get a better paying ($20k+ more than current salary), guaranteed job right over the border tomorrow if I applied.
mt80@reddit
Do you think the US is reporting their numbers with the same methodology as those other countries, especially under the Trump administration? Just go skim r/jobs
Granted the US is still better than most but that’s why I suggested to OP that it’s best to have something warm bc through personal experience it’s difficult here too
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
I know multiple people that are landing jobs in America, in completely different states, income levels, and industries.
I don't know anyone getting a job in Canada right now.
newphonewhodis333333@reddit
Why not try another European country?
Zestyclose_Jelly6317@reddit
You’re low on money now, but there are countries outside of the EU. Just securing some part-time contract work would be enough to sustain you in many places overseas that are probably a lot more friendly to expats, affordable, and far away from US politics (to the extent you can be). You’d have the money to travel back home more frequently and better work-life balance in a LCOL country.
two2goplease@reddit
Hi, I’m not an expat, but I am someone who travels a lot and understands the positives of living abroad. I’m also older(65)and I’ve struggled with some mental health issues. I want to encourage you. Never say never—you can certainly stay in the U.S. for years and then, perhaps unexpectedly, things would open up to move abroad again. It sounds like you’re on the right path and following your heart (time at the moment to be with those you love who support you). Enjoy each day and allow your future to become clear. I hope you’ll find clarity and a new normal soon. I wish you the best. Please don’t lose hope and don’t feel there is a right or wrong answer to your dilemma. God bless.
gott_in_nizza@reddit
How’s your German? I can’t imagine having done the last 20 years here without being fluent in the language.
I know how you’re feeling though - I was back in the US for several years and was quite happy there.
It’s hard to know the future, but right now I’m less concerned about Putin’s tanks than trump’s thugs. I’d be inclined to keep my options open for at least another 1-2 years.
Do you have a passport or a Niederlassungserlaubnis?
RavenRead@reddit
There’s no place like home. There’s no people like your friends and family. I’d say move back. The only thing is I’d get my German papers first. You were there for 8 years. Might as well get your immigration documents before you leave.
BanMeForNothing@reddit
If you turned off the news and you didn't know who won the election, would you be able to tell who the president was? Maybe, but it probably has such a small effect on your life. Personally, I wouldn't be able to tell. If you were an illegal immigrant or receiving some entitlement that was cut, you would know.
Deciding where to live based on who's in office is dumb. Where do you enjoy living? Where will you earn more? Where has lower taxes? Think about things that are directly going to impact your life.
No-Gas-5631@reddit
I left Europe and moved to the U.S. - stayed nearly 15yrs, then mived to England for 5, then moved back 3.5yrs ago. It was a logical decision. Family aging etc. I found myself a job before I moved, but my heart still regrets. What I had built was a life. It is hard to make a recommendation, but as you lead in with a job issue, I’d start there. If you can find a job and a place to make home in your old home, it may be the right decision. If not, Europe has a lot to offer and you may yet find employment again. Maybe looking a bit outside your normal parameters. Fascism has arrived. I too left the U.S. when Trump took office, then fascism and Brexit and more made it smart to return to the mainland. But I have been gone too long. The people who had stayed moved in their own different paths and reconnection isn’t - once you’re home - not on vacay - easy. What you’ve seen and experienced they do not share. Your own evolution they do not know. The decision is not easy, but whatever it turns out to be, make It based on something you can lean against potential regret. My logic remains sound. It was the smartest move for me and my family. So when I miss my heart-homes, I know it isn’t easy but it is the best I could do.
Successful_Cash2523@reddit
Go with friends and fam. Life is short and that’s all that matters. I’m in Germany now, but heading back to Chicago. I had a blast and love it here, but time went by quick and although this was fun, America is better, despite Trump being a corny ass rich boy (piece of shit.)
unknowntoff@reddit
Don't do it, the US economy is hanging on by a thread and now there's talks about the orange fascist invoking the insurrection act which would mean marshall law, the cunt is about to turn the military on his own people which will mean civil war.
It's being under reported because the media is so heavily censored there now. You couldn't pay me a million dollars to live in that cesspit.
Significant-Wonder65@reddit
I would recommend getting your German passport then leaving.
Psychological-Try343@reddit
The options aren't only Germany and the US. Cast an eye on other places.
Background_Stick6687@reddit
Good news is that hiring Americans first is back in fashion. With some possible upgrades to your tech skills, you should be employable and up and running soon.
cosmicchitony@reddit
Your mental health and financial stability must be the priority right now, and being surrounded by your support network in the US is a powerful remedy for both. While the political climate is a valid concern, you can't build a future from a position of isolation and depletion. It's okay to choose the path that offers immediate healing and a realistic foundation for your career, even if it means a difficult decision about Europe.
Aesop557@reddit
You and your friends are not in a good place. There is nothing serious going on in the US. If you were Turkish, Ukrainian or even Russian or Romanian, trying to get some sort of life going on, I would say that yes, you have an argument. But nothing dramatically serious pertaining to actual persecution has happened in the US since 2017 which raises a serious question of moving away from the country in order to avoid that persecution. It sounds to me like you could get out more, get to know people and get around and out of the internet
fromwayuphigh@reddit
I'm also an American in Germany, and there is roughly zero chance I'd move back to the US. I hope you make the best decision for you, but honestly it sounds like you're just homesick after a visit. It's really important to remember that the reality of living in a place is always different than visiting, as many seem always in a rush to tell you when you think about leaving home for other shores.
Wiscodoggo5494@reddit
Hello. I’m an American living in France right now so I understand your feelings. I am absolutely disgusted by what’s going on in the US. However, my advice is to go back. If you don’t have an income, it doesn’t matter what is going on in US politics- you need to go where you have a better chance of earning money and also have to social support to help your mental health. Europe isn’t going anywhere. I know you put in a lot of work to be able to work and live in Germany, but scraping by with no income or savings just isn’t a rational way to live if you have a choice. I, too, have to go back because I am not on a work visa. (Even if I were, I can’t do my job here because of professional licensing restrictions etc). Go back, earn some money, get your mental health under control and enjoy your friend and family support. You can come back to Europe. I will say that jobs in the US don’t hire around this time. My job back home as well as my sister’s job are on a hiring freeze until January. This is usually the case at the end of the year/around the holidays every year, so just be assure of that.
rger36510@reddit
Can't you return to the US while keeping the option of returning to Europe, e.g. by applying for citizenship? Or, if necessary by returning every so often, even if only for a few days.
werchoosingusername@reddit
'....I've lost the vision of my life in the next 5-10 years.'
I think you core is still 'a go getter US spirit'...more like an entrepreneur. Sadly, besides Poland, I do not see this spirit in the EU. The 'work & life' balance will bring the EU to its end. Poland has a strong industry and keeps moving on.
Anyway, you need targets and vision, these are hard to build up in Germany and even harder to put into action. Call it a day. People around you do not share your ambitions, Take the good memories with you and go back to the US.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Thank you for that. I agree... Is Poland really that good? Hmm... never considered it. I'm open for relocation, but I figure that if I move again, I may as well go be with family.
werchoosingusername@reddit
I am observing Poland from the distance. Seems they are doing fine. They are kinda the Americans of EU. The next would be Romania and Hungary.
BibliophileBroad@reddit
Isn't Hungary run by Orban, a dictator? I thought that's why folks are trying to leave the U.S.?? Romania is rather low-income and has few jobs as well. I'd rather stay in Western Europe or move back to the U.S. than go there, honestly.
Defiant-Dare1223@reddit
They are all poor with very low pay. Maybe they will be viable in twenty years but they aren't in the here and now.
werchoosingusername@reddit
Yes agree, yet they also provide opportunities for anyone who is looking to setup their own business.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
fascinating...
werchoosingusername@reddit
Hungary although longer in the EU then Romania, is still lagging a bit behind. Hungary these days is becoming a car production hub. BYD and BMW among the latest setting up factories.
Romania has its own dynamics a sometimes bit rough on the edges. Most people up to 40-45 speak English. Many Romanians returned from EU countries after covid and brexit. Gorgeous countryside.
Might be worth checking.
Ornery-Amphibian5757@reddit
as a former expat (moved back due to an illness in the family i was needed home for), if i could leave rn, i would. it’s too precarious here rn. wait to come back until things are a little more stable (when.. if…).
ik this is a suggestion for people in their 20s commonly but. you can work at hostels for a place to stay. check out things like wwoofing where you can work for shelter and food. things like this will help you stretch your savings. if you don’t want to do this, consider looking into tourism companies OR making your own that is geared towards US/UK visitors in your marketing. if you’re willing to learn another language and need a change of scenery, quite a few countries like italy have added a significant amount of work visas for next year.
matchaflights@reddit
When you’re in a tough spot there’s nothing like having the comfort of family and friends to support you. You obviously miss that which is totally normal. The job thing is your biggest problem holding you back. Getting a job is now your full time job. Look at Estonia they have tons of tech jobs form what I’ve heard. You may need a change of pace altogether !
Puzzleheaded-Cloud58@reddit
Lol
gaiaom@reddit
Okay, this is gonna sound a bit philosophical… it sounds to me like you’re seeking something outside of you. You left the US for Germany because you were seeking a better life and now you’ve hit a tough patch and you’re looking to come back. How lucky that some of us has the first world problem. Are you able to access German healthcare? I’d say, take care of your depression by seeing a professional and then maybe try volunteering somewhere- maybe use your tech skills and help out other foreigners moving into Germany. You now have a skill that’s invaluable- you have both the American and German perspectives. I think you need to ask yourself what you are really seeking. If there’s a way that you can hold out and get your citizenship there that would give you even more leverage. It’s crazy to hear about all the techies out of work. Tech was advertised as the industry that’ll only keep growing.
Look, they’re saying AI is gonna replace a lot of our jobs - I’m not sure it’s better anywhere else than where we think it is at this time.
Pillowful_Pete1641@reddit
You're not thinking straight. What are your pull factors and not the push factors?
How well do you speak German? Do you fit in well in germany? Do you like the culture? Do you see yourself there long term?
And if not is there a country that you do like and wish to make it in?
Don't make decisions upon the whims of current events or politics. Also consider what will happen in the future in both countries.
If you're iffy on these things and can't make up your mind- and can't articulate why you like it there so much over the US- then the safe decision is to come back to the US. Things will change only more as you get older, and unless you really love your host country and its culture it will be harder to stick by through thick and thin.
Kiwiatx@reddit
I would not burn a bridge unless I really had to.
ubfeo@reddit
Stay there... please.
CannabisGardener@reddit
I was in a similar boat in France. Came back to America for 2 years and things spiralled down, now I'm looking to leave again
jeremiah256@reddit
Regardless of nationality, political climate, race, etc, there are personalities that generally should never leave home or go far from home.
It’s not a good or bad thing; one personality is not better than the other, it just is.
So, don’t sweat it if you lean more towards one end of the spectrum than others. Go home.
LiebeundLeiden@reddit
Be where you are happy.
BigBootyJudyWiper@reddit
Just move back to America dude
Responsible_Tooth871@reddit
What’s the real reason you are moving back to the US? Did your german leave you for a younger man?
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
read bro
PomegranateDry3147@reddit
Could you possibly break away like go on a cycling trip through Europe? Maybe it seems far fetched but something along those lines where you could sublet your apartment and just explore and enjoy your personal freedom?
You never know, you might meet some people or make connections/network.
I don’t know… maybe it’s a dumb idea. Just throwing it out there.
Iron_Baron@reddit
If you think America is going to get better in the near to midterm, you are very much mistaken.
If you come back here before the shit has really hit the fan, which it will, you are going to be in a world of hurt.
The grass is not greener on the other side.
callmecarlpapa@reddit
As someone who is trying to escape, I think it's crazy anyone is trying to emigrate to America with the current state of things
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Grass ain't that green tbh
callmecarlpapa@reddit
As if to say the grass isn't greener in Germany compared to America?
They're pretty serious about not making the same fascism mistake twice in Germany
KaliMaxwell89@reddit
Isn’t the afd a rising party in Germany ?
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Not serious enough, if you watch the news
Jenandgon@reddit
Can you work remotely? I’ve seen jobs where you basically correct AI. Everything from biology to programming, you get assigned projects that utilize your strengths. I haven’t pursued it, so I don’t know more than that, but thought it might be good w your tech background.
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Would definitely love to work remotely but I've had no luck...
FlimsyParsley9491@reddit
Why?
Gohiking21@reddit
I’ll never understand running away from your country like a little bitch instead of staying and fighting for what you believe in. Soft af.
historyhill@reddit
Is there an expat community you can get involved with? (I'm sure you've already considered that, but since I'm in the boat you were in 2017 I feel like I still need to ask).
WileEPorcupine@reddit
The political situation in Germany now is much more potentially volatile than in the U.S.
ComprehensiveWar120@reddit
Leave the uber liberal echo chamber. Life is going on as usual in the US. Define your priorities and pick a location based on that.
ibitmylip@reddit
there are some Trump fans here that will downvote any comments that suggest the U.S. is not the best most perfect place to be, so take the downvotes with a grain of salt
CompetitivePost3750@reddit (OP)
Totally understandable haha
Nukedboomer@reddit
Well, you know there are people now there fully above the law and kidnapping all kind of people in broad light and sending them to concentration camps or who knows where. With zero accountability. And an "rich elite" ruling the country. Perhaps you are "safe" for some time if you are white and have the luck to not crossing your path with nono of them. But that will become more likely as time passes. It still baffles me to speak about the US like this on 2025, but that is how things are. It could be important for you to be there and try to help your family and friends during these times, but also it could be important for them having someone outside. Nobody knows nor have your answer here
Absolute_legend_@reddit
Wait everyone says the US is horrible /s
MikeysmilingK9@reddit
Sad and sophomoric decisions over one person!
ibitmylip@reddit
which one person?
ibitmylip@reddit
At the moment I would stay in the EU
Absolute_legend_@reddit
Lol. Not for money