Why aren't libertarians more involved in civil rights?
Posted by Leri3467@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 45 comments
I think this is the perfect place to try to understand this, but why aren't libertarians more involved in civil rights? By "involved," I mean that I often don't see libertarians engaged in various civil rights struggles, often even paying almost no attention to the issues, focusing much more on the economic side. Is it because libertarian philosophy views economic freedoms as more important than civil liberties? Or is there some other reason? (I am Sorry if I am just ignorant about it or sound like in bad Faith, but I am just realy curious about it).
DontTreadOnMe1787@reddit
Repeal the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
jmd_forest@reddit
We're busy working for a living.
Craftswithmum@reddit
Most libertarians I know are white guys with trust funds. Many of them haven’t experienced extreme suffering. They usually think they’re more intelligent than others and have a hard time with empathy.
PhadeUSAF@reddit
Where do you think libertarians don't care about civil rights? None of what you said points that out. You just made a sweeping generalization.
Craftswithmum@reddit
I’m not saying all libertarians are this way just the dozen or so that I’ve met.
finetune137@reddit
Someone hurt you? Who was it?
Craftswithmum@reddit
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AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
We are, we have been for DECADES you just haven't been paying attention.
Here's just a few examples.
The Libertarian Party endorsed gay rights with its first platform in 1972
LGBTQ equality has always been a staple of the Libertarian Party’s beliefs, as the rights of all should be protected, as long as they do not interfere or supersede the rights of others. Numerous assaults on the rights of the LGBTQ communities are results of government intervention into what should be private contracts or relationships between consenting adults, parental rights, and property rights. When these interventions are removed, the incentive for conflict, and hatred, are removed as well, and people are free to associate with those who hold their beliefs most closely.
Libertarians believe that people should be able to travel freely as long as they are peaceful. We welcome immigrants who come seeking a better life. The vast majority of immigrants are very peaceful and highly productive.
The Libertarian Party will work to bring an immediate end to the War on Drugs, reform the drug-related criminal justice system, and focus on rehabilitation for addicts in lieu of typical punitive measures that do not solve root problems while encouraging those with problems to hide them instead of seeking help.
The freedom to express yourself, communicate with others unhindered, and proclaim self ownership, demands unfiltered access to all information. You can’t own yourself if you can’t perceive the world around you as it truly is to understand what to free yourself from.
It's not our fault you don't pay attention to us. We've never hid our support for civil rights issues. You just didn't bother looking.
ClaireBlacksunshine@reddit
I would agree that real libertarians support these things generally. But there are absolutely tons of people on these subs who do not support civil rights. I had to leave the meme subreddit because it’s all about how evil trans people are for existing. I’ve heard that our subs had a major influx of MAGAts after bans happened, so I assume that’s where a lot of the perception comes from.
JamesMattDillon@reddit
I guarantee he never talked with a libertarian before
UnkmownRandomAccount@reddit
indeed. for years libertarians have been overlooked and lumped in with other people and policies when we have always been our own group
MermaidSkipper@reddit
OP, in 2024 the only openly LGBTQ candidate to run for presidency was the Libertarian Chase Oliver. We are vehemently against censorship, torture, prohibition, slavery, and inequality in every sense. Libertarians were the first political party to support gay marriage. Who is saying we don’t care about civil rights or aren’t involved in them?
DonutHoleTechnician@reddit
Libertarians absolutely care about civil rights, but the solutions the left comes up with typically involve expansion of government, so there is a tension.
Randsrazor@reddit
And a kind of mental and linguistic slavery.
DonutHoleTechnician@reddit
Can you expand? Do you mean political correctness?
Randsrazor@reddit
Yes, more like thought police. Kind of like the difference between communism and socialism.
"There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism - by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide". -Ayn Rand
Syd_Barrett_50_Cal@reddit
Because a lot of “Libertarians” are actually authoritarian conservatives who want to feel special. They care about gun rights and/or drugs, but they like authoritarianism with respect to everything else, especially when it’s against people they don’t like. Lots of these “libertarians” will probably downvote this comment because they feel called out. Exhibit A, check out the political compass memes subreddit and you’ll find that most people with “Lib-Right” flairs are cheering on the president sending the military into blue states, which is about the least libertarian thing you could possibly support.
finetune137@reddit
Who hurt you?
Exciting_Vast7739@reddit
We are. Spike was when he ran for President. I was vocally against the extrajudicial killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. Consistent libertarians believe that people shouldn't be afraid of their governments, and the law should be fair and applied equally and favor no one.
We also believe that empowering people economically to be able to solve their own problems and protect their own property is the best way to protect them against discrimination. We should all enjoy equality, but the best way to mitigate life's a**holes is to have control of your property, control of your choices, and firearms to defend yourself from bad people.
After a consistent, fair legal system that protects property rights and civil rights, economic freedom and gun rights are best ways to protect against any bigotry and prejudice.
Electrical_Bunch7555@reddit
👏🏽👏🏽
sonickid101@reddit
Also in addition to the points many have stated here. Libertarians are very independent and by definition not joiners so if you have a lot of democrats hyprocritcally protesting republicans for civil rights after 4 years of violating those same civil rights we don't see much of a difference. If we had elected libertarians they might coalition to vote on specific civil liberties legislation but they'll certainly be loathed to associate with socialists, and statists of any stripe. We call balls and strikes as we see them not with a TDS lens of orange man bad. Both major parties are evil and wrong and we can't hate them enough. We often go further, all recreational drugs should be legal, all sex work should be legal, civil asset forfeiture is just as much theft by the state as is taxes, police shouldn't have more or less accountability than any other citizen and qualified immunitunity is abhorrent, free speech freedom of association and gun rights should be absolute. The 4th amendment has been gutted since 9/11 the patriots act should be repealed and privacy rights restored, digital documents should be included in the 4th amendment protections for persons or papers.
Redduster38@reddit
One libertarians are a small part of the population. There's also been a surge of pseudo-libertarians and pseudo-libertarian experts to confuse things. Finally libertarians are more for negative/passive rights/liberties than positive/active rights/liberties.
I'll use the discussion of food rights to distinguish between the two types. A negative right would interpret food rights as access to food. So the government should not be able to let's say ban or limit strawberries and a person can freely deal with the seller to buy them. However they must buy the food themselves or find someone to volunteerly buy it for them.
A positive right would be you are owed food someone else provides. So the government would say take 30 strawberries from the farmer and give it to another because they need food and fruits to eat. Someone has to provide it.
There are only two positive rights in the Bill of Rights. Jury by peers and right to defense.
Bringing it this back to the original question. Libertarians are more for negative rights, and applying it across the board. So freedom of speech applies to a strait white man, the same as a Trans black woman, the same as a neonazi, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, convict, innocent student, ect.
It seems when you insist on actual equality and applying it without distinction the message doesn't stand out.
slapnuts4321@reddit
I feel like libertarians are the only ones wanting civil rights for everyone.
7in7turtles@reddit
I think it’s easy to confuse civil rights with social justice. Libertarians are very concerned with the rights of people, equal treatment under the law, and protections from governments who wish to infringe on your rights.
Libertarians are not concerned with litigating the past and rebalancing society to make up for past injustices.
Awkward_Passion4004@reddit
Because in modern America "civil rights" is code for special rights for "oppressed" people.
AIParsons@reddit
Bigotry.
Prestigious_Bite_314@reddit
Because libertarians care about issues for the roght reasons. Political discourse often revolves around the wrong reasons. "Look at this white supramacist, these savages are going to invade us, police are racist, China is going to take over". All of these are guided by emotions and no principles.
PhilRubdiez@reddit
They do. It probably doesn’t align with your viewpoints so it doesn’t always pop into your feed.
Butwhytho39@reddit
There is depressingly a large strain of libertarian thought that says "you have a right to your bigotry and discrimination". In my experience its a dominant section of the Libertarian party over all.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
You absolutely do. And I have a right to not associate with you. Including firing you from my company, banning you from my property, denying you membership in my social groups, and refusing to talk or hang out with you.
usingbadnamesabunch@reddit
Everybody gets to use the words they want. Speech doesn't lose protections if it's bigoted or offensive. Only if it becomes threatening or incites violence.
sparkstable@reddit
You do have a right to it. You don't have a right to impose it by law.
Legal, moral, ethical, preferable, desirable... these don't always line up.
It is a key concept in libertarianism to grasp. If people are free it means they are free to value different things than you, judge things differently than you, prefer the world be differe than you would. And they have every right to try and make the world as they prefer using peaceful means. This likely won't get very far as others are doing the same thing in opposite directions. Tolerance comes from accepting this tug-of-war and finding peace with it as you continue your struggle to make your life and world what you want... again, peacefully.
I want more people to be learned in the arts. I will advocate for that in my life. Some people don't give a shit about theater and would prefer people be more into sports. We are pulling in different directions. But accepting this is tolerance. Trying to end this via force or law is the immoral action... not the struggle itself.
sssanguine@reddit
Because freedom of association is foundational to any liberal society.
Hench999@reddit
Libertarians denounce things like police brutality across the board. Many on the right excuse it, and the left only seems to care about it if their is a racial element to exploit.
The main problem is that most people don't have a concept of what a right even is. I don't know how many times I've argued with someone who claims that rights come from the government. They will argue tooth and nail despite it being clear they have never put an ounce of thought into the matter until now.
Some people understand what rights are and that they exist regardless of government others believe that various luxuries can be labeled as basic human rights.
txtumbleweed45@reddit
What does “engaged in various civil rights struggles” even mean?
DarthFluttershy_@reddit
I think you're off base here, and/or judging libertarians be reddit memes posted by people who may or may not be libertarian. Check out the major libertarian publications and philosophers (at least those who aren't professional economists) and there's plenty of focus on it.
I think the reason it appears otherwise is because libertarians have no significant political power, so we tend to stand out only when in contrast to both of the major parties. When we argue for free speech, we get lost underneath whichever major party is pretending to care about that this week. When we argue against police misconduct, we get buried by louder BLM rioters. When we argue for freedom of religion, we get drowned out by one side of the other depending on if we're discussing Christianity or not. Etc.
Our economics stands out a bit, due to the way prominent Austrian economists identify. Our meme hottakes stand out because they don't fit in other narratives. But we do consistently advocate for all civil rights.
Ed_Radley@reddit
Most inalienable rights have been secured (at least on paper to some degree) in the US. A lot of what’s being fought for now are what we call positive rights, or rights that require some type of compulsory action from people outside the group seeking the rights. That is the antithesis of freedom, so no, they don’t mesh with libertarian ideals.
LordActonAFool@reddit
Libertarians are like 1% of the political population...and because of that, have no power. Are you talking about hashtags and memes?
fishingforwoos@reddit
The fact of the matter is Libertarians want to go the opposite direction as many of these movements (since you're vague, I'll also be vague).
These movements often want control over the populace and their autonomy codified into law. We want the government to back the fuck off, period. The government should not be inserting itself into how private citizens deal with each other.
We don't disagree that people should be treated well, discrimination shouldn't exist, etc. We just fundamentally disagree that the government is the best way to go about this when the government can't do anything right.
sssanguine@reddit
What civil liberties are you referring to?
Cannoli72@reddit
many of the Supreme Court wins are from libertarians. Such as Heller
Mrandomc@reddit
Generally speaking, people are going to focus on the issues that personally affect them. The economic issues also tend to get more traction (ie. other groups agreeing)
As far as civil rights, libertarians view it differently than either political parties. Republicans view civil rights as only okay if it aligns to their views (Christian nationalism) and Democrats believe in forced participation of civil rights. Libertarians believe that we should all have our own choices and freedom of association, which doesn’t really get any mainstream traction.
dicorci@reddit
Donate to the itj I do it every year
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