EU pressures G7 countries to loan frozen Russian assets to Ukraine
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 82 comments
Posted by ObjectiveObserver420@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 82 comments
VintageGriffin@reddit
Why should other countries put their neck on the line for a self-inflicted EU issue/initiative?
We want you to steal other people's things just like we do. That will show our strength and solidarity!
It's always the people from the so-called butthurt belt that are on the frontline of these things.
"Reparation loans", what a loaded euphemism. Loaning your people's welfare tax dollars to one of the most corrupt countries in the world, leveraged against Russia losing in a conflict that is statistically impossible for them to lose, and paying out reparations of an indeterminate amount.
Now tell me, would these people be interested in putting a negotaliated end to this conflict in any other way than complete Russian defeat and capitulation, such that these reparations have to be paid out and they wouldn't be held liable for reimbursing all of these stolen assets back?
Didn't think so.
As in, people with no dog in the game who are not going to be directly affected by the consequences.
From the creators of "battle fatigue", "differently abled" and "negative cash flow position"
Just call it what it is - international grade theft, and attempts to justify it and confuse people into thinking otherwise.
I remember when the most important concern of any country's government was improving their own economies and representing the will of their own people.
Not paying out salaries and pensions for the people in bureaucrats in Ukraine.
Nothing shows the strength and credibility of the euro quite like stealing other people's assets entrusted to it's financial systems.
t0FF@reddit
You're right let's act like Russia and send tanks to steal territory as we wish, it's better right?
VintageGriffin@reddit
How about you do none of those things?
The self proclaimed beacon of democracy and human rights garden shouldn't be stooping down to someone else's level, unless, of course, they are gigantic hypocrites.
t0FF@reddit
Sure, let's ignore russian invasion. Let's turn the other cheek i'm sure this will stop putin.
And you dare to talk about hypocrite, you're a joke.
zaplayer20@reddit
AFU is looking for your willingness to fight Russia. They pay good.
In other words, don't bring someone's else shit to our doorstep.
t0FF@reddit
Enough of Kremlin's keypoints, I'm not interested with your BS.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Meanwhile up until recently Europe was in full support of Israel doing much worse things to Palestine, and somehow nobody called it an invasion or tried to stop Netaniahu.
And even now, as they've changed their rhetoric, the changes remain mostly verbal.
So yes, I will continue calling Europe in part, and the West in general, gigantic hypocrites.
t0FF@reddit
"Full support"? I would love to see russian whining about Ukraine invasion as much as europeans whine about lake of reaction from European leaders.
If you want to think that you are better, good for you. Doesn't make that true.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Why am I expected to make a distinction between what the people want and what their governments do, when the former are summarily ignored and the latter just do whatever they want anyway? What difference does it make that some Europeans are against something if that doesn't amount to anything and they have no influence over any course of action?
European governments were in full financial and rhetorical support of everything Israel was doing in Palestine, and the only thing recently dropped was the rhetoric.
I don't see (up until just recently) anyone banning Israel from everything, canceling their culture, imposing a million sanctions on them, freezing and trying to steal their assets, giving trillions of dollars of military and financial support or any other things to Palestine, quite like they are doing in favor of Ukraine. Meanwhile both were supposedly invaded by their "bloodthirsty" neighbors.
t0FF@reddit
Of course let’s ignore that hamas, friends of Kremlin, started the war. It's obvious that you talk of Gaza so you don’t have to talk about Russia, it’s like the kremlin only have this keypoint left. Why do I lose my time
VintageGriffin@reddit
The same Hamas that Israel funded, just so they can have an enemy to justify their hostilities? Kind of like how Russia was made the source of all evil that justifies NATOs continued existence and expansion since the fall of the Soviet Union?
Try reading what I actually wrote instead of attributing me all kinds of things and projections. I'm sure the experience will be less insufferable.
t0FF@reddit
I assure you that reading it a second time don't make it better, quit the contrary. It's the same obvious whatabout we have in every single post about russian invasion for the last 18 months.
d_for_dumbas@reddit
I remember a time of a europe without blood and soil based invasions but here we are, and supporting the democracy against fascism is bad according to you, when it will stabilise the continent.
and nothing shows pro-kremlin hypocrisy like complaining about the seizing of assets when talking about fucking russia of all places.
zaplayer20@reddit
In a legal court, EU will lose and we will have to pay for it, you know, the taxpayers. Russia knows that, EU knows that, everyone knows that. Also, if we have to give to Ukraine that amount of money for reparations in a ongoing conflict, where do you think those money will go? For reparations? No, to continue the war. A history question: When have you seen a winner side paying reparations for their military success toward their losing side?
Also, what if countries start taking out their assets from EU to say... China or any other banking system? Do you think the EU banking system will not suffer? I can guarantee you we will all suffer financially with political blunders like this and this is how "extremist" parties will win, Le Penn, AfD and so on.
haggerton@reddit
Maybe you should support Russia then. Because this current mess came about due to the West supporting Fascism against a democratically elected government.
https://www.espritdecorps.ca/choosing-friends-and-enemies-in-ukraine-is-no-straightforward-task
Esprit de Corps is Canadian Armed Forces' internal magazine, and in this specific article it refers to Russia as an enemy, so you can save the "kReMlIn PrOpAgAnDa" brainrot.
d_for_dumbas@reddit
Classic ol "people dont have agency" its all the evil west controlling eveerything wah
Also calling your coward of a puppet leaving due to his Lack of balls "fascism" Shows all i need to know about where you get your money from
lmao.
haggerton@reddit
I provided evidence for my claim. The West, by its own admission, staged a Nazi coup in Ukraine.
If you know any of 2014 history, you would know that after this coup, Ukraine banned pro-Russian parties from running for office.
This is how "democracies" should work apparently, according to NAFOids.
When you have no argument, go for ad hominem.
Shows all I need to know about whether you have shit for brains.
VintageGriffin@reddit
You do?
That's strange, as I recall Europe being the initiator of blood and soil-based invasions itself. To quote Google search results to save time.
"NATO has been involved in numerous conflicts, most notably the Yugoslav Wars in the 1990s, the War in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2021, and the 2011 military intervention in Libya. Other significant operations include counter-piracy efforts, security missions in Iraq and North Macedonia, and an aerial counter-terrorism mission over the United States after the 9/11 attacks. "
Europe also did a good job of stabilizing the continent, according to your statement, by supporting Israel and its conflict with Palestine up until recently.
And even now still mostly doing business with it, with no hint of "asset confiscation for reparations" talks anywhere in sight.
Be consistent.
TheBoizAreBackInTown@reddit
Most people in this thread are consistent and don't support offensive wars, coups or genocides no matter the perpetrator. You are trying to relativize the Russian offensive war by suggesting countries shouldn't seize Russian assets, which is dumb. And at the same time you're (mostly rightfully) complaining about NATO countries being initiators of other invasions. So are you against all invasions or just those that do not suit your narrative?
VintageGriffin@reddit
That's my question wrt. Israel/Palestine and all that military/NATO interventions Europe was doing itself.
I am neither for or against any invasions, I'm just commenting on the articles of each topic. People replying to me keep trying to attribute all kinds of things to what I'm doing that suit their narratives best.
I don't really care if they do or do not seize those assets.
All I'm saying is that Europe has no legal basis of doing this, and that the consequences for it will be severe. One of your neighbors doing something to another does not give you the right to steal from any of them.
d_for_dumbas@reddit
You do not understand the terms used clearly, i recommend you read a book.
fretnbel@reddit
Amen
PaddyMakNestor@reddit
Russia is currently stealing land from Ukraine and you're on here whining about the EU confiscating your cash for being naughty boys. The irony is delicious!
You should be asking yourself why Russia was so stupid to leave hundreds of billions of euros in the EU when they chose to stick their thumb in the EUs eyes by attacking Ukraine. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Money will be better spent rebuilding Ukraine than buying mansions in London or superyachts anyway.
Potaeto_Object@reddit
Ah, the land grab argument again. First of all, Russia invaded in 2022 with approximately 200,000 soldiers. It has been widely acknowledged around the world, including in Russia, that 200k was not enough to occupy Ukraine. But if it wasn’t enough, and they knew that, then maybe their goal wasn’t to occupy Ukraine at all. Maybe it was to pressure Ukraine to take their security concerns seriously and to stop banning Russian culture. Maybe thats why there was so much diplomatic activity in the first few months.
And what were the Russian demands in those diplomatic talks? Neutrality, protections for Russian speakers, and denazification, ie, Stepan Bandera can’t be a war hero anymore. Nothing about territorial annexation. They even allowed Donbass to remain a part of Ukraine, albeit an autonomous zone. It was only after the western leaders told Zelensky to fight to the death in April 2022 that Russia started making territorial demands.
ZhouDa@reddit
That's revisionist history. First off Russia was saying they'd occupy Ukraine in 3 days to a week. Secondly the tactics Russia used were the same ones they used to occupy Crimea. The ability to occupy Ukraine was very much dependent on the amount of resistance they faced, and Russia was assured that they would face very little resistance, which actually happened to be true in the South of Ukraine thanks to a betrayal by a Ukrainian general who just let the Russian forces in. Russia believed something similar would play out in Kyiv (so much so that Putin was paying an agent for a ghost army of rebels in Kyiv that didn't exist) and with the fall of Kyiv the Ukrainian government would fall and they can replace it with a puppet. It was only after the operation in Kyiv failed that Russia scrambled to move those troops to the Donbas using phony peace negotiations as cover for the move.
Only a very gullible person would believe that. It's literally the same excuse the Nazis used as to why they needed to invade their neighbors. The same excuse Milosevic used for ethnically cleansing Kosovo. It's why post 2022 invasion the Baltic countries and Poland have pushed out Russian immigrants, because they don't want Russia to use that excuse to invade them next.
The truth is nobody was banning Russian culture, that's as stupid a claim as believing Puerto Rico would ban Spanish culture. Ukrainians freely speak as much in Russian as they do Ukrainian, to the point that the series Zelensky was known for "Servant of the People" was done in Russian, not Ukrainian. Centuries of Russification and suppression of Ukrainian culture had their impact, a country where nobody could practically abandon Russian or even wanted to. They are still struggling to get people to even use Ukrainian place-names instead of Russian ones.
No less than the eventual destruction of Ukraine. Not just because they demand a bunch of territory they didn't even currently occupy, but the combination of requiring Ukraine to demilitarize and not allowing them to join any defensive alliance to protect themselves meant that they would be as good as dead. Russia would come back and take the rest of Ukraine at their leisure and there would be no security assurances to keep Russia from breaking any such peace treaty, not even at the level of the Budapest Memorandum of requiring UN notification.
When is Russia going to take down all their statues of Stalin and Lenin? Bandera was killed by the KGB after surviving a Nazi concentration camp and Ukrainians consider him a hero because he spent his life fighting Russian oppression. Maybe if Russia wants to change that sentiment they should stop being the villain and trying to annex Ukraine.
Because Russia put the issue aside, not because they agreed to leave occupied Ukraine. And the treaty they had no intention of signing was just a distraction anyway, Russia was just buying time to consolidate their forces before they lost everything they sent in the North to take Kyiv.
They said no such thing. Only thing Boris Johnson told Zelensky was that they were getting aid. The West would have supported Zelensky regardless of how he decided to handle the war.
Russia was never going to leave the territory they stole from Ukraine at any point in the war. Russia may demand more now but its a moot point since there won't be a peace treaty and parts of Ukraine like Kherson have already been liberated which would never be Ukrainian hands had such a hypothetical treaty been signed.
Practical-Pea-1205@reddit
Those demands also included that Ukraiencouldn't have more than 50 000 soldiers and giving Russia the right the veto any international response to the next invadion. And Putin doesn't want Ukraine to be neutral. Direct quote from his essay "on the historical unity of Russians and Ukrainians" : "During the recent Direct Line, when I was asked about Russian-Ukrainian relations, I said that Russians and Ukrainians were one people – a single whole. These words were not driven by some short-term considerations or prompted by the current political context. It is what I have said on numerous occasions and what I firmly believe. I therefore feel it necessary to explain my position in detail and share my assessments of today's situation."
PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit
Nothing shows "diplomatic pressure" more than trying and failing to blitzkrieg a country's capital
VintageGriffin@reddit
You're so close to a nugget of truth, yet so far. Could it be perhaps that Russia was never planning to initiate this conflict, and was forced into doing so?
That's a conflict between Russia and Ukraine to settle. It does not give any rights for a third party, posing itself as a beacon of democracy, to do illegal things because "someone else is doing it too".
My point exactly.
Czart@reddit
USA didn't plan on invading Vietnam, they were forced to!
That's the multipolar world and spheres of influence your tsar loves to use to justify it. Stop whining, it's the game you wanted to play.
VintageGriffin@reddit
Yet so far...
What do "spheres of influence" and "multipolarity" have to do with the part of my reply that you quoted? What I was saying that just because there's some evil in the world does not automatically give you legal and moral permission to be evil yourself. Not while claiming to be democratic and just, that is, and getting very upset when somebody points it out.
Czart@reddit
Yet so far... what? Are we now pretending that vietnam wasn't a horrible war started by bullshit reasons and killing massive amounts of innocents?
There is no legar or moral permission required in geopolitics, there is only what you can get away with, and that's what your tsar has been pushing for over a decade. Also i love how you try to equate committing war crimes to taking away money from those who commit warcrimes.
PaddyMakNestor@reddit
Are you talking about Russia's first bite of Ukraine in 2014 or the second in 2022? That's an awful lot of conflicts to not plan for, maybe if they planned a bit better they wouldn't be stuck in the current quagmire. If we are talking about the 2022 invasion Russia would have definitely had time to pull their funds but did not because that would have telegraphed the cowardly sneak attack that they "didn't plan".
Russia's whole invasion of Ukraine is illegal, you can't go around doing illegal things and moaning when you receive the same in return, only with less death and destruction. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, always offended, never ashamed with your lot isn't it?
d_for_dumbas@reddit
Ok, we get it "poland deserved to get invaded by the nazis" according to you,
now go outside and touch grass.
VintageGriffin@reddit
I have no idea what you're talking about. If this is routinely the level of mental gymnastics people replying to me are going through then no wonder it's such a shit show.
d_for_dumbas@reddit
Same bullshit rationale. Same bullshit cassus bwlli. Same bullshit defenders.
VintageGriffin@reddit
You continue not making any sense. I'll be leaving this conversation now, have a good day sir.
fretnbel@reddit
US is involved as per Budapest Memorandum
Potaeto_Object@reddit
The Budapest memorandum does not require any country to defend Ukraine, nor did it give Ukrainian nukes to Russia, because the nukes never belonged to Ukraine in the first place. I still don’t know how people keep twisting and lying about the Budapest Memorandum to make it sound like something it isn’t. All the Budapest Memorandum was, was a mechanism to return the nukes to Russia which legally belonged to them. Thats it.
ZhouDa@reddit
The nuclear missiles in Ukraine belonged to Russia even less than they belonged to Ukraine. They were Soviet missiles, and Russia is not the USSR. The US and UK mediated and signed the Budapest Memorandum on security assurances along with Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan because Russia threatened to invade Ukraine if Ukraine didn't give Russia those nukes. And to the US and UK this meant they can avoid a potential nuclear war while consolidating nuclear weapons so there are fewer actors who could set off a nuclear war, thus why they got involved. And while they were no consequences for breaking the Budapest Memorandum outside of addressing it at the UN, the fact is that Russia did break the treaty by invading Ukraine, twice if you include 2014. And had the West followed up on the Budapest Memorandum by actually giving Ukraine NATO or at least EU membership, the 2022 invasion of Ukraine likely wouldn't have happened or if it did happen Russia would have been defeated by a combination of Western forces by now. The truth is that Russia has only gotten away with all of their war crimes at this point because the West has enabled all this. The Russian army that invaded Ukraine who lacked not only nukes but had very limited Western aid at this point was bought largely with European oil money.
PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit
Russia should be thankful Europe and its ally response are limited to that
The Tomahawks are still yearning for their true purpose
ForskinEskimo@reddit
Getting shot down by somebody with even semi-competant AA?
PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit
That would imply fighting someone with semi-competant AA.
Thankfully, Russia isnt the soviet union and its burning refineries show that
This war has shown time and time again that hardware that were supposed to be obsolete have been very effective against Russia
ForskinEskimo@reddit
So Ukraine's Migs and F16s have not achieved air superiority over Ukraine, and are not used outside a defensive, standoff weapons role from far within Ukraine's west, not bevause of Russia's AA capabilities, but just because of the vibes?
ZhouDa@reddit
I think you mean air supremacy. Air superiority is local, air supremacy is global. Both sides have achieved air supremacy at different times and parts of the frontline.
Regardless, I don't think we can discount the effect of these weapons so easily. This is primarily a drone war but the effect of combined arms plays their part. They don't have to wunderwaffe to matter, and thinking this will give you air supremacy is setting up an unneeded high bar here.
ForskinEskimo@reddit
You're right, thanks chief, I always mix those up.
Oh I'm not discounting the affect of those weapons. Just pointing out that Russia's aviation is largely about defense/interception/standoff function, so their own local air superiority against Ukraine is overwhelmingly because of their AA systems, and not mandpads but it's median and long range AA/ABM system. So saying those are not even semi-effective is really underselling their actual impact on the war.
PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit
Ukraine doesn't have real SEAD capabilities on the front-line since it would have been far too expensive for limited results since Ukraine has basically fuck all in term of close range bombing capabilities anyway
Russia would get far more from air superiority, but since their SEAD is also shit, here we are.
However Russia cant protect everything as we have seen. The country is just too big, with too many juicy targets
ForskinEskimo@reddit
I'm under no illusion that they can protect everything, but your illustrating my point; US intelligence cresting isolated attacks from odd vectors, using lower-signiture drones, tsrgetting back line infrastructure have a good chance of breaking through.
But on the front line the AA is more then capable of defending against a wide-variety of targets (anti-SEAD more questionable), including Tomahawks, as show by it's effect at blunting Ukraine's airforce and Britain's Stormshadows (I mean, I guess some broke through and hit that bridge which wasn't actuslly fully destroyed so it got repaired again?).
If they intend to use Tomahawks to target infrastructure, I guess that that could work, but longrange AA would detect and have a field day with them. But that seems like a waste of tomahawks.
PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit
Nobody believe that Ukraine can win on the front-line and push back Russia.
For that, only a proper NATO air campaign would work
The only way for Ukraine to win is to make the war very expensive for Russia
One of the most economic way to do it is to hit where it hurts, like refineries, parked warplanes, munitions factories etc
Problem : those targets are mostly out of range of most Ukraine weapons
Tomahawks would solve that problem, and would hit targets with low or inexistant air defenses
And then, can Russia redeploy a hundred long range aa from its front lines ?
ZhouDa@reddit
I mostly agree with your assessment, except that I would add that the AFU can and has won on the front-line and pushed back Russia on multiple occasions (even though at other times they've failed). Regardless Ukraine has only changed strategy when Trump became president again, as they had to reassess the risk of going on the offensive when their allies become less reliable, especially when Russian troops are happy enough to sacrifice their soldiers for the illusions of gain. Eventually the AFU will change strategies again when the time is right, but for now there are no plans to organize any big offenses to push Russia back, even though they could do so if they wanted to take on that risk.
VintageGriffin@reddit
I love people who use the act of verbal masturbation to the newest wunderwaffe as part of their argument.
flesjewater@reddit
They are Russian funds. It's the most risk-free thing to loan out for the European population.
And why shouldn't Russian capitulation be the end goal?
VintageGriffin@reddit
When the time inevitably comes to return that money back to Russia, where do you think it is going to be coming from?
Because you are waging this war with Ukrainian hands and you don't give a damn how many of them die in the process, as long as you are "hurting Russia".
European hypocrisy and double standards are suffocating.
flesjewater@reddit
That money will likely be the baseline for reparation negotiations, and then some. There's no reasonable expectation for a return in the end.
I'm not waging this war, Europe isn't waging this war, NATO isn't waging this war, hell not even Ukraine is waging this war. It could end in a day if the Russian troops would retreat back behind their own borders.
VintageGriffin@reddit
If "you" all are that uninvolved, then stop meddling and imposing your own conditions. Without "your" help everything would have been over during 2022 negotiations and none of the horrific losses and destruction would have had to happen.
Europe is talking a lot of mad shit and making a heck of a lot of demands for a side that is supposedly "uninvolved".
flesjewater@reddit
'negotiations'
VintageGriffin@reddit
Just because you might not agree or like some parts of it, does not mean it didn't take place.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
EU also have similar in Russia that they can also "freeze" and take for themselves. You know why Italy is so wary of this decision? Because they still operate in Russia. And they aren't the only ones.
Tono_Pancurak@reddit
Play stupid games and win stupid prizes.
If russia wants its money from the EU then they should play by our rules.
VintageGriffin@reddit
If "your rules" include things like stealing other people's things entrusted to your financial system then don't come complaining when Russia reciprocates by confiscating every European asset it is in possession of itself, and the rest of the world loses faith and confidence in your fairness, reliability and fiscal responsibility.
Tono_Pancurak@reddit
Just leave Ukraine and you will have your money back. It is that easy. Of course EU will deduct money needed to rebuild Ukraine because that is what bros do. Help each other, not invade neighbours. No need to appeal to what Europe makes Europe. For the USA and EU loosing RU as a partner is a blow, but for Russia loosing EU is a disaster. Putin just gave Russia to Chinese. China is the biggest profiteer of this conflict.
VintageGriffin@reddit
That's not up to you to decide. That's not up to banks to decide. Your level of understanding of these things appears to be unbearably naive.
People don't put their money in banks expecting to pass some kind of morality check when they want that money back - or risk having it stolen and donated to the victims of a bad thing if they don't.
You know why? Because it's bad for business. They sure as hell can try, but that's the kind of mistake that can only happen once in anyone's lifetime. Kind of like playing chicken with a freight train, or opening your parachute in the last possible moment.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind your bank giving all of your money to your neighbor every time you have a personal conflict between each other. Because that would have been the right "bro" thing to do.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
>Play stupid games and win stupid prizes.
Just remember that when consequences will come knocking.
Potaeto_Object@reddit
Confiscating the Russian assets is stealing, which is illegal. You say Russia should play by the EU’s rules, but the EU isn’t even playing by its own rules.
Tono_Pancurak@reddit
Killing and invading is also, but it didn't stop Russia.
Potaeto_Object@reddit
What is this, appeal to hypocrisy? All you’re saying is that the EU gets to be just as immoral as it perceives Russia to be. That makes the EU no better.
TheBoizAreBackInTown@reddit
Starting an offensive war, killing and bombing an otherwise peaceful country is way worse than seizing assets from a country that provoked a war on your continent. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion it's the same - similar to those "antifacists are just like facists" arguments. There's no hypocricy in this case, and it does indeed make EU much better than Russia.
Tono_Pancurak@reddit
Thank you.
Tono_Pancurak@reddit
No, we should of course let Russia jump on our heads as it wants and don't do anything about it. And after the war just forget everything and get back to business. Sometimes it is acceptable to use force to deal with bullies.
Also there is a moral difference between invading and killing and seizing assets of invaders and killers.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
EU also have similar resources in Russia that they can also "freeze" and take for themselves. You know why Italy is so wary of this decision? Because they still operate in Russia. And they aren't the only ones.
flesjewater@reddit
One more reason why Italy might want to reconsider their operations there
Mal_Dun@reddit
I suspect the only G7 country which needs to be pressured is the US then.
France, Italy and Germany are already part of the EU. Japan is officially still at war with Russia, has on-going border conflicts and will likely follow. UK and Canada already said they are interested.
So the only one which will be really hesitant about something like this, I see is the US, since Trump was quite favorable of Putin.
imunfair@reddit
The problem isn't who's part of the EU, it's that Belgium won't steal the money without legal reassurance from the rest of the EU that they're all on the hook for the repayment, because they know that it will have to be given back to Russia eventually even if they take it now.
The EU wants it as a clever end-run around legally obtaining more money from their own governments, so they can go "oops, guess we're legally obligated to repay this huge sum of money!" some time in the future, rather than causing chaos for asking for a couple hundred billion now to extend a war that most of their voters don't care about.
FriedRice2682@reddit
EU isn't looking to repay at repaying the debt. I mean, unless they think Russia fold:
Should Moscow refuse, the assets would remain frozen. AP
imunfair@reddit
They'll have to, the courts will mandate it if the governments don't pay willingly. There's no legal basis for them to seize the assets from a country they aren't at war with, which is why they're so hesitant to steal the full amount and incur that cost. They've been nibbling at it in steps trying to mitigate the risk, but they're out of money now.
zaplayer20@reddit
It would not surprise me if these "silly politicians" do that before their exit. I wish if that happens, they face 20 years of prison at least, no immunity no nothing because this basically puts the entire debt to the taxpayers one way or another (either by not investing into infrastructure or by simply rising taxes)
zaplayer20@reddit
Japan won't follow, Belgium is afraid of the suing which they know they will lose it. Also, this sends a massive precedent and makes EU Banking system, untrustworthy and that is massive for the economy of the ENTIRE EU, that could lead many countries like China and Asia+Africa+South Americas to remove their assets from EU Banking.
And after that, on what legal grounds can you loan something that you don't even ask the owner of the money if you can use them? What if, Russia hacks the EU banking systems and takes every cent they took, as a retaliatory measure? Who do you think in the end will pay for this massive political blunder? Do you see Von der Leyen, Kaya Kallas, Merz or Macron paying from their own pockets? I don't see that happening, it will be us who pay for it, we will face more financial problems, more recessions, more hardship and so on... for what? A corrupt country like Ukraine that has fallen into authoritarianism? Why do we have to fall with Ukraine like a group of idiots who don't know when to stop. If we need to touch the Russian frozen assets (which is like 100 something billion dollars for reparations in an ongoing war), it means our funds are at the bottom of the sack and that is not good, it means we will most likely face a huge economical crisis or already are in but we still are in a denial. It's not like we are BFF with USA, no, they tax us like customers, not friends, meanwhile they also support genocide.
New_Breadfruit5664@reddit
Japan is enjoying cheap russian oil atm.
Mal_Dun@reddit
So does the EU ...
New_Breadfruit5664@reddit
The EU is paying a premium compared to a couple years ago
Mal_Dun@reddit
Not really. The EU has diversified it's sources and several of them are more expensive than Russia.
For example China does not pay Russia as much as the EU so Russia sells oil with less revenue in the billions, so the EU remains an important market for them.
_Kiith_Naabal_@reddit
The US has been hawking over this since Biden. Of course they will love for EU to do it... Without risking their asses.
Last year an EU MP even said "we might be stupid but we aren't that stupid" to a similar proposal made by Biden government...
Trump, however, would never, ever, tolerate chance of taking any fallout from this decision, yet US will gleefully lean on you to clean up their mess.
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