All living Israeli hostages returned
Posted by debasing_the_coinage@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 646 comments
Posted by debasing_the_coinage@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 646 comments
OsgrobioPrubeta@reddit
Strange times we live in when it's a Terrorist Group that complied with what was agreed, while the rest of the world has several doubts about what the two supposed Democratic and Civilized parties will do.
Good that these victims are finally released, their families can finally “breathe" and wish them the best possible recovery.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
"Terrorist group"=Freedom fighters, "these victims"=IOF soldiers, one of whom was "kidnapped" from a freaking tank.
swelboy@reddit
Not all of the hostages were soldiers though, and what motive did Hamas have to shoot up music festivals and Kibbutzim other than to sow terror?
Granted, the IDF engages in tactics to sow terror, but that’s beside the point. Hamas vs. Israel is like the USSR vs. the UPA. Sure the Soviets and the Nazis (UPA fought them as well) gave Ukraine more than enough reasons to want them gone, didn’t make the UPA any less terrible.
your_red_triangle@reddit
so you're happy to make excuses for one terrorist nation but not the other.
only one of these terrorist groups have been found to shoot toddlers in the head.... the one you're making excuses for.
swelboy@reddit
Since when was I making excuses for what the IDF does? The IDF are also horrible.
I can’t find anything specifically about the IDF killing toddlers (not necessarily denying it, just can’t find anything) but they have killed quite a few children, just like Hamas did when they killed 36 children during 10/7, which yes, isn’t relatively small, but that was a single day long attack and Hamas hasn’t had any major chances to attack Israeli citizens since 10/7.
maddsskills@reddit
So Hamas claims that their soldiers thought the Music festival was for off duty soldiers, because it was an unusual place for a music festival. I don’t entirely buy this explanation, I think they just went off orders because they were mad at people their age partying next to their prison.
I had initially thought their goal was to take civilian hostages but Hamas says that also wasn’t part of their orders. I think with the casualties at Nova vs the Kibbutzes it’s clear their goal wasn’t just to kill everyone there (and keep in mind we know for a fact Israel killed some of the villagers that day, we just don’t know how many.)
I think, and this is just a guess, they were trying to cover their retreat. At that point the Israeli military were on their tail and they hoped that by surrounding themselves with hostages they’d be able to make it back to Gaza. It’s a strategy Shamil Basayev used during the Chechen wars.
This should not be read as a defense, but an explanation of what I think they were TRYING to do.
Charming-Raspberry77@reddit
You are really downplaying the sheer drug induced savagery that went on the nova festival. The work massacre does not even begin to cover it.
gut536@reddit
Increasing debate these days on how much damage was caused by Hamas vs IDF (via Hannibal directive, which was verified to have been used.) So maybe pump the brakes on the adjectives.
AlexRyang@reddit
Yeah, there was pretty strong evidence a lot of the casualties were from Israeli Apache helicopters strafing the concert.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
"Evidence." HAHAHAAA
gut536@reddit
Haaretz article confirming use of Hannibal Directive
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Man, can't refute such evidence like that. Clearly everyone who died at the Nova Music Festival was because of the IDF helicopters strafing.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Awesome, where in your paywalled article does it discuss a helicopter strafing the music festival?
gut536@reddit
I'm not that guy. I'm just providing the article that discusses the use of the hannibal directive. The helicopter video going around social media was fake I believe.
loggy_sci@reddit
No there was not. This is a fucking lie. If you have proof you would share it. Some Israelis were killed by the IDF but not “a lot”.
You are a liar and you know you are lying.
Charming-Raspberry77@reddit
That is an absolute load of garbage. There is no directive to rape and murder a bunch of young drunk people at a festival, including a cp child on a wheelchair. The debate is simply that facing the reality of Hamas’ beserk rampage does not fit the resistance narrative ppl are desperately trying to attach to them.
your_red_triangle@reddit
zero evidence of "mass rapes". the majority of the killing of Israelis was by their own IDF terrorists. under the Hannibal directive. Which has been confirmed.
gut536@reddit
No, but the card blown up by tank shells were not hit by Hamas tanks (they don't have any.) Haaretz confirmed the use of the hannibal directive on Oct 7.
Charming-Raspberry77@reddit
Despite the fact that Haaretz is hot garbage, Nova was the first location hit by the terrorists. There are dozens of videos made by victims, perpetrators and then first responders. No helicopters insight. There are hundreds of survivors describing what happened. Hard to rewrite this one. https://youtu.be/o_cABLvmajo?si=1bW81kqoPa_NiFYb
ExtremeAcceptable289@reddit
There are like 3 or so confirmed rapes only by the israeli backed investigation. Bad sure, but not a direct orfer
loggy_sci@reddit
As always pro-Palestinians are trying to memory hole the brutality of Oct 7th. Fucking despicable.
Charming-Raspberry77@reddit
I have seen more than three women say they were directly raped in televised interviews. That and many pictures of corpses burned in suggestive positions, plus recorded testimony of Hamas terrorists saying they raped and were told to rape. We have forensic experts saying there was rape plus a UN report confirming it. It is awful and you can’t cope with it, I see.
Ajmb_88@reddit
People like to ignore that fact. Doesn’t help the narrative.
gut536@reddit
Here be dragons!
cmonnomorework@reddit
Only one that gives any thought to batshit insane theories like hannibal are hamas supporters and qanon, congrats!
gut536@reddit
Haaretz confirmed the use of the Hannibal directive on Oct 7.
konosso@reddit
The Nova festival was right next to a military base. Like 1-1.5km away.
Zoetekauw@reddit
When you have no means for conventional warfare, nor can you effectively hit military targets, and you've tried through diplomacy to stop the decades-long land grabbing and slow but certain destruction of your people, you get desperate.
cmonnomorework@reddit
So thats how you justify the mass rape and murder of literally everyone hamas saw on 10/7? If the idf did that every 2 million gazans would be dead by now.
Just say thanks to the idf for mercy and move on hamas
Ambitious-Poet4992@reddit
I don’t think it’s justification it’s just saying if after half a century you have tried conventional warfare, diplomacy and appeasement many people get radicalised and desperate and start trying extremely ways to influence the enemy. Not that it’s right
cmonnomorework@reddit
You mean religious extermists trying to genocide jews, lgbtq, women etc for hundreds of years only to get their shit kicked in?
swelboy@reddit
Doesn’t make shooting up random civilians ok, the USSR and to a lesser extent the Poles oppressed the Ukrainians pretty badly, doesn’t mean we can just ignore Volyn and the UPA’s other atrocities.
Hamas’ atrocities and their desire to destroy the whole of Israel, while creating valuable propaganda for the Palestinian cause via Israel’s own retributive atrocities, only serves to back Israel into a corner, makes them feel that the conflict can only end with one nation destroying the other. An insurgency might be able to overthrow or at least push out a government/state, but they can’t bring down nations.
Not to say that you can’t apply a lot of this to Israel too ofc. The extremism of Hamas doesn’t come from nowhere
OliviaAthmara@reddit
"Not all of the hostages were soldiers though"
"Nimrod Cohen was only 19 when Hamas "abducted" him from a burning tank near Kibbutz Nir Im on October 7, 2023, along with the murdered bodies of fellow armored corps soldiers"
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-870224
swelboy@reddit
“not all”
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
There are no saints in this war. Hamas are bad, and same applies to the IDF.
reddit_is_geh@reddit
There's definitely one side which is significantly worse. One side had full superiority, was in no real risk, yet would kill as many innocent people, completely without necessity, just to take out one SUSPECTED combatant trying to hide.
cmonnomorework@reddit
It's hamas who's 10/7 invasion was labeled extermination by the ICC.
Oh well keep complaining on reddit as the idf continue to remove worthless mouth breathing hamas every day
Funpop73@reddit
Comments like this and Israel wonders why no one likes them.
Funkliford@reddit
When people hate them for the simple fact that they exist, don't be surprised when they've long since stopped caring. A Palestinian state with 1967ish borders could've been a thing 30+ years ago, but that'd mean negotiations and land swaps and it was never good enough because anything less than the destruction of Israel is a capitulation -- Hamas says as much in their charter.
Longjumping-Jello459@reddit
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4137467](https://www.jstor.org/stable/4137467). This link might not be working atm, but you can use the link for the Kerry Initiative which has tabs for the other attempts at peace.
At Camp David, Israel made a major concession by agreeing to give Palestinians sovereignty in some areas of East Jerusalem and by offering 92 percent of the West Bank for a Palestinian state (91 percent of the West Bank and 1 percent from a land swap). By proposing to divide sovereignty in Jerusalem, Barak went further than any previous Israeli leader.
Nevertheless, on some issues the Israeli proposal at Camp David was not forthcoming enough, while on others it omitted key components. On security, territory, and Jerusalem, elements of the Israeli offer at Camp David would have prevented the emergence of a sovereign, contiguous Palestinian state.
These flaws in the Israeli offer formed the basis of Palestinian objections. Israel demanded extensive security mechanisms, including three early warning stations in the West Bank and a demilitarized Palestinian state. Israel also wanted to retain control of the Jordan Valley to protect against an Arab invasion from the east via the new Palestinian state. Regardless of whether the Palestinians were accorded sovereignty in the valley, Israel planned to retain control of it for six to twenty-one years.
Three factors made Israel's territorial offer less forthcoming than it initially appeared. First, the 91 percent land offer was based on the Israeli definition of the West Bank, but this differs by approximately 5 percentage points from the Palestinian definition. Palestinians use a total area of 5,854 square kilometers.
Israel, however, omits the area known as No Man's Land (50 sq. km near Latrun),41 post-1967 East Jerusalem (71 sq. km), and the territorial waters Of dead Sea (195 sq. km), which reduces the total to 5,538 sq. km.42 Thus, an Israeli offer of 91 percent (of 5,538 sq. km) of the West Bank translates into only 86 percent from the Palestinian perspective.
Second, at Camp David, key details related to the exchange of land were left unresolved. In principle, both Israel and the Palestinians agreed to land swaps where by the Palestinians would get some territory from pre-1967 Israel in ex-change for Israeli annexation of some land in the West Bank. In practice, Israel offered only the equivalent of 1 percent of the West Bank in exchange for its annexation of 9 percent. Nor could the Israelis and Palestinians agree on the territory that should be included in the land swaps. At Camp David, the Palestinians rejected the Halutza Sand region (78 sq. km) alongside the Gaza Strip, in part because they claimed that it was inferior in quality to the WestBank land they would be giving up to Israel.
Third, the Israeli territorial offer at Camp David was noncontiguous, breaking the West Bank into two, if not three, separate areas. At a minimum, as Barak has since confirmed, the Israeli offer broke the West Bank into two parts:"The Palestinians were promised a continuous piece of sovereign territory except for a razor-thin Israeli wedge running from Jerusalem through from [the Israeli settlement of] Maale Adumim to the Jordan River."44 The Palestinian negotiators and others have alleged that Israel included a second east-west salient in the northern West Bank (through the Israeli settlement of Ariel ..45 If true, the salient through Ariel would have cut the West Bank portion of the Palestinian state into three pieces".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taba_Summit#:~:text=.%20...%22-,Reasons%20for%20impasse,for%20reelection%20in%20two%20weeks.
The 2001 Tabas talks were much more productive and the deal offer then was much better, but Barak's re-election was going terribly Arafat could have agreed to the deal and it might have saved Barak or he could have still lost and the incoming government may or may not have honored the deal and since the Likud party won I would say the chances of them honoring the deal would've been around 5%
https://www.inss.org.il/publication/annapolis/
The 2008 Annapolis talks failed due to outside forces rather than the deal that was presented which was quite fair and equal to both sides. The Israeli Prime Minister was on his way out due to corruption charges, the Bush administration policy decisions over the years in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars hurt it's credibility and trustworthiness, and Abbas claimed that he didn't have enough time to study the map of the land swaps he would later say he should have taken the deal.
https://www.chathamhouse.org/2018/07/israeli-palestinian-peacemaking/kerry-initiative-2013-14
As part of Kerry’s initiative, there were to be confidence-building measures in support of the negotiations: Israel was to release Palestinian prisoners, in four tranches; and the Palestinians agreed to put on hold their proposed applications for membership of international bodies. But confidence-destroying measures also took place: Israel refused to release the fourth tranche of prisoners, and the expansion of settlements continued. In response to Israel’s failure to release the prisoners, Abbas signed letters seeking Palestine’s accession to 15 UN and other international bodies, a move that was followed in turn by Israeli measures against the PA.
According to Michael Herzog (who took part in the talks), the ground rules laid down by the US team were not clear; nor were the US’s messages, which the two sides understood differently. According to Herzog, the Kerry talks also undermined the secret, back-channel talks (the so-called ‘London track’) which were taking place in parallel and which were more likely to succeed.20 (A senior member of the Palestinian team in the back-channel talks has told the authors the same thing.)
Additionally Netanyahu insisted on the area in Israel known as the Triangle be part of the land swaps this area is home to the single largest population of Israeli Arabs which at the time was 300k out of 1.6 million.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/netanyahu-rabin-and-the-assassination-that-shook-history/#:~:text=Assassination%20of%20Yitzhak%20Rabin%20%E2%80%A2,Israel%20Square%20in%20Tel%20Aviv.
The biggest or at least first major reason why peace talks were derailed has to be the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by a ultranationalist Israeli Jewish man who was angered by the signing of the Oslo Accords. The far right in Israel and on the Palestinian side were both furious over the signing of the accords and each did what they could to undermine any future peace talks. After the assassination politics in Israel began to shift to the right and today at least for the time being the Likud party has control they have been the dominant party in Israel for the better part of the last 20 years.
your_red_triangle@reddit
a load of Hasbara bullshit. try again with real facts and real history. not your made up fantasies
cmonnomorework@reddit
Seems like the hamas being exploded every day isn't bullshit or made up hahaha look at them run screaming!
your_red_triangle@reddit
if you say so nazi.
Funkliford@reddit
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. "
OFC you guys have no genuine argument first you attack, then deny, then justify.
Longjumping-Jello459@reddit
Ha ha ha ha this is using real facts you utter fool. Also if you think this makes Israel look good your reading comprehension is quite poor.
ebola_kid@reddit
Hamas didn't exist in 1967 lol
Funkliford@reddit
... I didn't say it it did. I said there could've been a Palestinian state with 1967 borders 3 decades ago. Reading comprehension please.
cmonnomorework@reddit
Thats why all the pro hamas protests are dead all over the world? Largest subs on reddit hate you hamas?
Hey another 200 hamas dead today, shouldn't you be searching for food?
reddit_is_geh@reddit
Bro... You guys have overwhelming superiority and werent at threat during the war. It was a ruthless slaughter. You guys CHOSE to do as much damage as possible and treat innocent people with no regard. It wasn't just because "human shields". That was just your excuse to slaughter as many as you could, like blood thirsty savages. It's obvious to everyone. Not once have you guys shown any remorse or sympathy for the mass slaughter you've engaged in. It's a fucking unnecessary slaughter where you find stupid justifications to defend your revenge war to kill as many as you can "legally" justify.
You do it right now. You don't care about innocents. You use Hamas interchangable with Gazans, which is interchangeable with Arabs in general. You're just blood thirsty. You don't care if 100 innocents are killed to kill one Hamas member. Because you're sick fucks and that's why the world hates Israel now. We saw your true colors... Sickos.
Wiinterfang@reddit
One side is stronger military, I wouldn't call one "the bad side".
Now that Hostages are returned, Israel is not longer on a "defensive" position. Any Hamas Terrorist are also exonerated with the deal.
Hopefully, now peace negotiations can continue. Hamas will disband, some temporary government is put in place and everyone can send billions in aid without fear of being mismanaged by Hamas or blocked by Israelies.
Some long term rebuilding would do good as well to help the place heal. Worked between US and Japan.
Fingers crossed
reddit_is_geh@reddit
The way Israel conducted themselves to basically go on a murderous rampage while having full superiority, which was completely unnecessary... Makes them the "bad side". The conducted themselves like savages looking not to just beat Hamas, but seek revenge by having absolutely zero regard for human life. They have absolutely no sympathy for any of the people they killed with no second thought.
DoubleDrummer@reddit
Is this the version of those that were abused growing up to be abusers.
You would think that if there was anyone that had a problem with racial purges it would be Israel.
pseudopad@reddit
A certain Nietzsche quote springs to mind.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
Right? and I bet that these hostages weren't SA'ed/tortured in their time with H
reddit_is_geh@reddit
Well we have tons of testimony and proof of that happening with the IDF... Sadly Israel doesn't give a shit and one major case lead to literal riots with members of the Knesset while the media treating them like war heroes. One of the single most bizarre things I ever witnessed. Really was just more evidence that this was just a war of revenge to cause as much violence as they can justify.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
Exactly
ship_toaster@reddit
How much would you like to bet?
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
The saints in this war are the doctors and nurses, and an unacceptable number of them have been killed.
HooleyDoooley@reddit
Damn. Who killed them?
thegodfather0504@reddit
Thanks to the "good guys".
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Shut up Hasbara. Only one side is fighting an occupying colonial force that is guilty of genocide, indiscriminate killing, weaponizing rape, starvation and displacement as tools of war and projecting all their actual heinous crime on to their victims.
Financial-Berry1291@reddit
A turkish person talking about colonialism when his country is still illegally occupying Northern Cyprus, oppressing Kurds, and denying the Armenian genocide is hilarious.
Medical-Ad1686@reddit
Oppressing Kurds while the government is trying to free a Kurdish terrorist. You're talkin out of your ass about a country you know nothing about.
Financial-Berry1291@reddit
r/FragileTurkishRedditor
celloh234@reddit
Nice racism eh? Who says he is supporting those actions?
Financial-Berry1291@reddit
Where is the racism here ? Lmao
celloh234@reddit
how is you thinking every turkish person is supporting or agreeing those things is not racist
Away_team42@reddit
Hamas are literally terrorists - not sure why you’re so keen to come out to bat for them..?
bullhead2007@reddit
If we're gonna call an entity that targets and kills civilians, women and children for political reasons terrorists than Israel and the US are the largest terrorist groups on the planet right now. So would it be justified to start nuking civilians there? I don't think so.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Ooof, you're almost correct! You missed the fact that the word terrorists are used specifically for non-state actors. Surprised that you missed the first few words of the definition, surely you weren't trying to be disingenuous or anything. Well now you know
bullhead2007@reddit
Ah so if a state murders children intentionally it's okay then, Got it Mr German.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Oooof so close, you almost learnt something today! Classic American schooling system failure to not be able to learn basics. Carry on, American Illiterate
Vaxx88@reddit
At best your pedantic point is right only because they forgot the word ‘state’ as in, state terrorism THAT is your entire point then you become all giddy throw insults and run away. Absolute clown.
Israel, meanwhile, drops 2000 pound bombs on apartment blocks full of civilian families, THEN bombs more families (who they displaced) in their TENTS, shoots kids, drones doctors, leaves remote vehicle-bombs in civilian neighborhoods (and sets them off) booby traps pagers with bombs that go off in public places killing civilians, assassinates anyone they want in any country they want- including people currently involved in Ceasefire negotiations, sets up “aid stations” and baits the people they are starving to them and then shoots the starving people…I could keep going but I’ll stop there for now.
All that shit is terrorism.
Cohibaluxe@reddit
Don’t be that guy.
Terrorism is any use of violence against non-combatants to instill fear and achieve political or ideological goals. If, for example, the US intentionally bombs civilians and justifies it as "peacekeeping" or some other BS, that’s 100% terrorism, even if they’re acting as a state. The IDF has commited many, many acts of terrorism in this war, and can very legitimately be viewed as a state-represented terrorist organization.
monocasa@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_terrorism
monocasa@reddit
Likud was formed out of literal terrorists. That carried out even worse atrocities than Hamas has such as biological warfare targeting civilians.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
So were the suffragettes and Nelson Mandela. They are freaking saints when compared to IOF and bothsiding needs to stop.
Away_team42@reddit
Uhh I don’t remember Nelson Mandela rampaging through a music festival on a mission to molest and kidnap as possible
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Nor did hamas. You need to get fucking deprogrammed. Hamas even saved a bunch of hostages from the apache helicopters carrying out the Hannibal Directive. There was also no documented "molesting". Get your facts straight.
NoHetro@reddit
we literally have evidence of them murdering children and raping on oct7, what are you on about?
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Show it.
NoHetro@reddit
There are so many i don't even where to start, you can find them yourself if you even bothered:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/october-7-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-hamas-led-groups
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/questions-and-answers-hamas-led-armed-groups-october-7-2023-assault-israel
https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/18/evidence-points-to-systematic-use-of-rape-by-hamas-in-7-october-attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screams_Without_Words
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
All zionist propaganda that can be tracked back to the IDF.
NoHetro@reddit
Lol did you even bother to check them? or did you have that link ready before i even replied? there are multiple independent investigators that all came to the same conclusion, the evidence is overwhelming.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Neither do I. But I do remember the IDF committing atrocities that make Hamas’ rampage look like a picnic in comparison.
Zipz@reddit
You must of missed those car bombs that Mandela used on civilians
MaestroRozen@reddit
Your atrocities won't magically disappear just because you're fighting a stronger enemy, no matter how much worse they are. By your logic, Al Qaeda aren't a terrorist group either and 9/11 was a justified act of resistance - purely because the US killed more people in retaliation than Al Qaeda did. Both sides are horrible, and as long as you're pro-Hamas you are not pro-Palestine. Period.
spacecate@reddit
Whose colonies? Do they speak the same language or send taxes to their mother state?
faceless_masses@reddit
There is no colony in Gaza. Gaza produces nothing and costs Israel money. It's the opposite of a colony. They are simply a failed state with a fetish for martyrdom and losing wars.
notsocharmingprince@reddit
The Ottoman Empire owned Israel and Palestine for 400 years so I really don't wanna hear about occupying colonial forces from you. Thanks.
celloh234@reddit
North America....
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
Hamas has launched missiles against civilians, it literally kidnapped civilians from Israeli territory outside Gaza, etc. Also there's the fun irony of Hamas supporting gays, queers etc. in the west, whom Hamas would be happy to let be killed by mob violence because Hamas follow a more fundamentalist view of Islam.
As much as Hamas might be a liberation orgnaization, that doesn't take away from the fact they aren't completely innocent, just like how the allies during WW2 commited war crimes as well.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Sure. I called them freedom fighters, not pacifist hippies. Give me 1 example of a group of freedom fighters who has not harmed civilians. Launching missiles, kidnapping civilians are all war crimes but pales in comparison to what Israel has been doing before Oct 7, let alone since. This shouldn't even be a fucking debate. It's like comparing the Warsaw Ghetto "intifada" fighters to literal Nazis.
flesjewater@reddit
YPG in Syria
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Lol nice joke. They and their parent movement killed/harmed tons of civilians. Still freedom fighters for the most part tho, except for cozying up to Israel and a bunch of other issues. They definitely have more blood on their hands than Hamas.
randompersononearth9@reddit
Funny when it is kurds all of a sudden it is different. What a fucking hypocrite are you? Why are they freedom fighters for the most part and and hamas are freedom fighters?
Syrian kurds literally fought against isis for their freedom of culture.
If hamas are freedom fighters then kurdish forces in syra and turkey are definitely freedom fighter. But of course turks will talk aboht morals and ethics as long as it itnt about kurds.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
I said they were. Wtf arent you getting? My question was name me a group of freedom fighters who hasnt harmed civilians. You think YPG fits that bill?
celloh234@reddit
Classic racism "you're turkish so you must hate kurds immigrants and support occupation of cyprus"
flesjewater@reddit
However oppressed you are, slaughtering a music festival is not fighting for freedom.
They should've bombed army bases is they wanted to maintain any legitimacy.
LatterTarget7@reddit
Hamas also weaponizes rape, indiscriminate killing. 79 none Israelis were killed on Oct 7th. They had nothing to do with Israel’s crimes against Palestinian why did they deserve to die?
JucheSuperSoldier01@reddit
No. The side that commits a child holocaust is bad. The side that resists is good.
Dexpa@reddit
Hamas would have done the exact same if they could. Glazing them as "good" just because Israel is bad is pathetic.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Dexpa:
A lot of Zionists are desperate to paint the sides as equivalent morally. They are not. One side fights to end their statelessness and subjugation and to stop the daily abuses, which include rape and murder with impunity.
The other side is fighting to keep the injustices in place, to keep the other side stateless and subjugated, and to ensure that the daily abuses, including rape and murder, go on forever.
Hamas may be terrorists but there is still a big moral difference between the IDF and Hamas. It must suck to be compared unfavourably to a terrorist group that murders children.
They are bad, they are just not as abysmally bad as Israel is.
Dexpa@reddit
I don't think many zionists paint the sides as morally equivalent. It does seem to me that many that are strongly pro-Palestine are quick to paint anyone that even slightly disagrees with the ethics and practices of Hamas as either hasbara or zionists.
protonpack@reddit
Does anyone call Hamas the most moral militant group in the world?
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
There is a recurring accusation that if you are pro-Palestinian then you are pro-Hamas. Many small-minded people just can’t grasp the concept of hating Hamas and the IDF…
Dexpa@reddit
Yup
YourFuture2000@reddit
Hamas could do the same as they have attached Israel many times but not targeting childrens or hospitals.
They just choosed not to.
Zipz@reddit
Imagine the group who’s was founded on genociding Jews not Isrealis all across the world
Wouldn’t try killing them…..
Holy moly you are a very special boy
bullhead2007@reddit
Are you talking about the group who was funded by Israel and propped up to be put into power by Israel? I mean if you're talking about Hamas, they are in power because of Israel directly.
Zipz@reddit
One more time because you ignored what I said
Guy goes hamas isn’t genocidal
Which is a stupid thing to say
I corrected him
bullhead2007@reddit
I'm not upset you called out Hamas, I'm just pointing out that Hamas coming into power was heavily influenced by Israel directly wanting them to come into power so they would have a destabilized Gaza and to prevent Gaza + West Bank from unifying and becoming strong opposition or being able to negotiate in good faith a state solution.
The ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians started before Hamas existed so I don't really care what you say about them.
Zipz@reddit
Yes you are
That’s why instead of correcting the guy who is lying about Hamas
You attack me who corrected the liar
It’s not that complicated you support Hamas let’s stop playing this stupid game
SouvlakiPlaystation@reddit
Yeah they gunned down and slit the throats of thousands of people at a music festival. Also they killed many children in their homes while their parents watched. Put down the kool aid
YourFuture2000@reddit
Every country has done such things either direct or indirect.
There is no good from those who compete for power.
bullhead2007@reddit
That's the same kind of Rhetoric the Nazis used against the Jews btw.
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
Hamas killed children during the Oct. 7th massacre.
downstairsdinosaur@reddit
And how many tens of thousands of Palestinian children have been killed in return?
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
A lot.
But the Oct. 7th Massacre was an act of war. It's terrible. But why aren't you blaming Hamas for starting a war? What did they expect to happen?
ijzerwater@reddit
because it was war before 7 Oct. There was oppression of killing of Palestinians. What did Israel expect to happen?
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
And Hamas had been carrying out terrorist attacks before that.
If your answer is that Hamas decided to fight a war then... you can't really complain about casualties. Hamas chose this.
bullhead2007@reddit
Hamas didn't exist then the Nakba happened, or the decades of oppression and death Israel committed against the Palestinians.
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
And the Jews have been continually driven out and oppressed in their own homeland before that. This conflict goes way back. Most people only started paying attention to it when Tik Tok told them to.
bullhead2007@reddit
There is no historical evidence that Jews were systematically driven from the levant. They were oppressed for centuries by many European Christians for sure, but that had nothing to do with the indigenous Palestinians living in Palestine that were ethnically cleansed so Zionists could form an ethnic majority in their colonial project.
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
The Ottomans (those darned colonists!) who controlled Palestine expelled the Jews. Then they lost a war. Jews returned to their homeland. That's not colonialism. Jews are indigenous to Israel. People returning to their country of origin after being kicked out of everywhere else isn't colonizing.
Rather than share Israel the Palestinians decided to fight a war so they could control all of it. They lost. So the Israelites control all of it. That's what happens. Someone's gotta lose the war.
bullhead2007@reddit
Lol The Ottomans made their empire a refuge for Jews from European antisemitism for centuries up to WW1 when they fell to European colonial meddling in the area and their fall in WW1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
You can't just make shit up. The founders of Israel were not displaced Jews from the Ottoman empire, did you invent that in a spice dream?
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
I didn't say the founders of Israel were displaced Jews. I was talking about Jews returning to Israel.
But I see what you're saying. Muslim colonization=good. European colonization=bad.
bullhead2007@reddit
No, all colonialism = bad
Palestinians were never colonizers, always colonized
They are indigenous to that area since the Bronze age
I hope this helps.
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
And so are the Jews.
Israel has always been controlled by the people who can hold it militarily. Since ancient times. And the Palestinians want to hold to those methods. They would rather die than share.
bullhead2007@reddit
That's not why the Nakba happened.
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
I know you think the Palestinians are justified in using violence to try and overthrow Jewish rule of Israel. You're never going to convince me that Oct. 7th was the right thing to do, no matter what happened in the past.
If they want to regain Israel by military might, then they have one option- to win. Unfortunately for you and Palestinian sympathizers, they lost. Again.
Maybe it's time to try something else.
bullhead2007@reddit
More children in Gaza were killed by Israel than any year before, BEFORE OCT 7th
Oct 7th was happening to Palestinians every year by Israel, it just gets ignored by the west because the West doesn't consider them human beings or Israel "mowing the lawn" is just "normal" and "expected".
Jonestown_Juice@reddit
List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel.
List of Hamas suicide bombings.
Operations carried out by the Al-Qassam Brigades
Terror attacks attributed to Palestinian militant groups.
And so on and so forth. Let's be real- this conflict is about control of The Holy Land. Palestinians want the destruction of the Jews and complete dominion over Israel. At every opportunity they chose to fight instead of share.
Now make no mistake- Israel has made some missteps in this war. They went too far in a lot of instances and made some major mistakes. I also think Palestinians deserve their own state and sovereignty. But I saw the videos as they were coming out on Oct. 7th. I knew then that there would be a bloodbath and I can't imagine Hamas didn't expect that as well. I don't understand why everyone expects Israel to be the "bigger person"
Hamas assumed the entire Arab world would rally around them and join them in destroying the Jews (and some help from Russia, I suspect).
bullhead2007@reddit
"Israel has made some misteps in this war" is one hell of a way to describe a genocide.
fullkaretas@reddit
Thats only a question about capability.
Beat_Saber_Music@reddit
An atrocity doesn't warrant an atrocity in return and the Israeli committed genocide isn't justified, but at the same time it doesn't shed the blood on Hamas's hands
Gender_is_a_Fluid@reddit
Netnyahu was briefed and made aware of the planned attack by multiple intelligence agencies and didn’t position troops and patrols to prevent the attack, he is complicit.
NoHetro@reddit
So I've seen this multiple times, even saying it was true, Hamas and the Palestinian people were the ones that committed these atrocities, not Israel, stop infantilizing them, they are responsible for their own actions.
Gender_is_a_Fluid@reddit
Yes they are responsible for their own actions, but the head of state also failed to protect his people, yet its always getting swept under the rug that he wants to perpetuate conflict to the detriment of Israelis.
mendokusei15@reddit
This is not in contradiction to the comment you replied to.
SouvlakiPlaystation@reddit
Harry Potter vs Voldemort mentality
Aristotelaras@reddit
Did Israel do anything to help the creation of a Palestine state before 2023 or after 1948? I don't think so.
spacecate@reddit
Oslo accords? Wye summit? 2005 Gaza military disengagement? Bar Ilan speech?
Sometimes it's better to not voice an opinion on things you don't really know. Makes you look like a fool.
Hermes20101337@reddit
I mean, there was about half a dozen drafts to ensure one around 48-49, but they declined them all, let's stop pretending Palestines are saints above all wrong, there's a reason the neighboring countries don't want them either.
Opening-Cheetah467@reddit
Not so smart take at all
akanefuru@reddit
If this ends up resuming like every single time before it, the Israelis will have to find another excuse other than "return the hostages"
purplemagecat@reddit
“Kill the bad guys”
pjjmd@reddit
"Finish the job"
or
"secure the existence of our people and a future for jewish children"
12bEngie@reddit
Except you could all just live in america. Not in a genocidal settler state
Solarwinds-123@reddit
Nope, America is full
12bEngie@reddit
Hasbaraaaaa
Solarwinds-123@reddit
I'm the farthest thing from hasbara, I just don't want a bunch of genocidal Israelis living in my country.
cmonnomorework@reddit
Yeah they busy blowing up hamas every day ha, doing great work
12bEngie@reddit
it’s our karma for propping them up..
it’s better here then there with them exploiting and slaughtering arabs
whogivesashirtdotca@reddit
You’re a few words short, there.
cmonnomorework@reddit
By eliminating hamas who wants to genocide jews, enslave women, lgbtq, atheists is a great start. The crying here by hamas is so nice to hear!
cmonnomorework@reddit
And stomping over hamas who wants to genocide all of them is great!
Tom-Rath@reddit
"Accomplish the mission" /w
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
“Kill the freedom fighters!”
cmonnomorework@reddit
A few hundred more dead hamas a day is a win for freedom!
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Sure. There’s those baby Hamas the IDF like to kill, the female Hamas, the unarmed male Hamas, the old Hamas, so much Hamas! Everyone else wonders why Israelis like spree killing children and other civilians, but to Israelis all Palestinians are Hamas.
cmonnomorework@reddit
IDF still eliminating hundreds of hamas a day so awesome!
sBucks24@reddit
"return the bodies ^(under the impossible amount of rubble we've created)"
cmonnomorework@reddit
Oh its almost like rubble is created during a war, a war hamas started with mass murder and rape, hope you guys are happy :)
12bEngie@reddit
Didn’t isntreal start the war in 1918? 1948?
cmonnomorework@reddit
You mean when Palestine and its 5 arab friends invaded in 1948 to genocide jews and got stomped? The IDF was literally created to beat back the invasion.
My how the invaders are the ones getting stomped eh?
12bEngie@reddit
Wait, the zionists didn’t start invading with the establishment of mandatory palestine? wtf happened before 1948, is that the start of human history?
cmonnomorework@reddit
Nope the land was legally partitioned by its legal owners Britain, only for you extremist terrorist to invade, murder, and continue the genocide.
So they beat you back, took the invaders land, rinse and repeat. Any questions?
12bEngie@reddit
Not sounding very irish of you, Hasbara…
and wait, they didn’t make an agreement with the arabs that if they revolted against the ottomans, they’d have their own independent state? only to renege and secretly sign sykes-picot and steal the land?
cmonnomorework@reddit
Yes hamasbara so the Palestinians went against the legal partition and started massacring jews of course.
Which is why even yesterday 200 hamas were bombed and removed from the planet by the idf. Isn't that great we're of these worthless mouth breathers more every day?
geoff04@reddit
Right because everything started on Oct. 7th right? There aren't 70 years of animosity and dehumanization on both sides.
The difference is Palestinian extremists join the extremist group Hamas. I do not condone the actions of Hamas. But Israeli extremists, join the army, and behead babies. I do not condone the actions of the Israeli GOVERNMENT.
cmonnomorework@reddit
Hamas the elected gov of gaza? See folks, there's hamas supporting the mass murders and rapes of 10/7!
sBucks24@reddit
Oh? Hamas started a "war" that's been going on for longer than Hamas existed? With that magic, how the fuck are they losing???
cmonnomorework@reddit
Why did the nazis or imperial japan start a war? Who cares? Oh well another 200 hamas wastes of air dead so not sure why you're pissed. Oh wait
nievesdelimon@reddit
Why did that happen, though?
sBucks24@reddit
Why did Israel start a genocide in the name of collective punishment? Probably cause Netanyahu and his cabinet are racist....
Gubbinso@reddit
Strange, I could swear history between Gaza and Israel existed before 7/10. According to pro-Israelis, there was absolutely no reason why Palestinians would resort to violence. Definitely not the fact that Israel violently crushed any Palestinian protests against Israel, its blockade or having no right of return. It most likely isn't the fact that the IDF kept killing civilians even before 7/10.
No, such things did not happen, and 7/10 exists in a vacuum.
sambull@reddit
They were chosen by God to live there
marysalad@reddit
I think god probably regrets that decision now
pasher5620@reddit
Why did what happen? Why did Israel start a campaign of genocide? Ostensibly it’s because of October 7th, but they’ve been looking for an excuse since 1948. Not like it would be the first time they’ve ethnically cleansed Palestinians from an area.
reddit_is_geh@reddit
The whole thing was just a revenge blood bath. The hostages was just a dumb excuse I don't think many people took very seriously to begin with. Whatever bullshit they come up with next, will also be as equally unbelievable, and still be used by them to keep it justified.
cmonnomorework@reddit
Ah so ww2 was just revenge for pearl harbor. I enjoy the insane rants of hamas as the idf thoroughly stomps on them. They must be doing really good these days
reddit_is_geh@reddit
No but the mass rape and killings of everyone after the war was done in Berlin, is exactly what you guys are doing. The war was "over" in the sense, that Israel faced no real threat. So you just went in and needlessly started killing as many as you could. Israelis werent at any real threat. They were still partying at the beach, going to nightclubs, having a blast, while you got your revenge to kill as many as you could while maintaining full superiority.
Seriously, you guys disgust me. The fact that you don't even see how disgusting you are is what makes it even worse.
cmonnomorework@reddit
Shrug you hamas have already refused to give up weapons in your conquest for genocide, so enjoy the war continuing. Not like the world needs your genocidal, women enslaving lgbtq murdering hamas
Dirkdeking@reddit
They don't need any excuse. They are bordered by a strip tgat is run by a terror organization that killed 1700 of their civilians in a single day. Any sane state would want to crush such an area.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
Crush… civilians?
Dirkdeking@reddit
No hamas
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
By launching a genocide? Interesting tactic. Sounds like that’s a state issue hat needs to be disarmed.
King_Of_Pants@reddit
If the death of 1700 people justifies killing +70,000 (including +40,000 women and children), then how many of their own will Israel be offering up to make up for their own attacks?
I'm assuming that math goes both ways, or are we just accepting that Arab lives are worth less?
In 2018 the IDF fired live rounds into peaceful protestors, killing ~200 and wounding ~9,000. So at a retribution rate of ~41:1, is Israel willing to offer up ~8,200 Israeli lives (of which 3,500 should be women and children) to make things even?
And that's just the killings, the math of justified starvations will take more time as aid workers comb through the bodies that weren't able to be counted through the conflict.
Because as you established, exponential massacres of civilians is completely justified.
Something_231@reddit
found the terrorist
WeHealThunderous@reddit
That’s what happened in 1948 but to the Palestinians by Israel. Cause any sane person would want to crush such an area.
That’s why the entire world doesn’t like Israel because it’s a continuation of their ongoing decades long brutality.
I’m just curious if you were capable of applying your logic to the Palestinians tho
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
I wonder how they would have felt about the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. That Nazis did the sane thing by crushing it? It's fucking insane how Nazi these fascists are.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Lol, sane...
akanefuru@reddit
If that is sane then this "sane" state deserves to be crushed.
pipboy1989@reddit
Wow, wanting kidnapped people home safe is an “excuse”. What is wrong with you people?
Mognakor@reddit
How many hostages has Israel freed vs how many gave been returned during ceasefires?
Yes it is an excuse for the Israeli gov, the hostage families likely would tell you as much.
DTFpanda@reddit
Way to ignore the context in which the word "excuse" is being used. Yes, it's always been a go-to excuse for Israel to bomb and murder tens of thousands of women and children. Now tell me, what is wrong with you?
pipboy1989@reddit
Tens of thousands!? You have an accurate number for that? Have you got the one thing that no-one else has, a seperate list of combatants killed compared to civilians?
DTFpanda@reddit
You're right, it's probably 100k+
pipboy1989@reddit
100,000+!!! That escalated quickly lol.
Pure desperation:)
rattleandhum@reddit
60k are the people whose names we know.
Without Hospitals, diggers, bulldozers, and means to excavate all the destroyed buildings, there are missing people whose corpses have not yet been found -- those are not on the list of 60k dead.
Even the IDF commanders estimate a number higher than 70k.
DTFpanda@reddit
Yes, an entire city is rubble and 60k+ documented civilian deaths (likely way higher), and Zionist fascist pigs like yourself still call it justified. Yet, I am the desperate one? Mighty fine logic you got there!
pipboy1989@reddit
Fuck it mate, make it 200,000+ if you want the deathtoll that high. It seems like you want more death than anyone else wants so enjoy!
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Because Palestine has accepted Israel's existence and wants to live in peace with it?
bullhead2007@reddit
Has Israel accepted Palestine's existence and willing to allow them complete sovereignty and autonomy? Willing to pull settlers out of West Bank? Israel is the colonial oppressor here with all of the power to end their apartheid and subjugation of Gaza and West Bank. Don't put this all on Palestinians who have been ethnically cleansed from their ancestral homelands by European colonizers.
brydeswhale@reddit
Bro gets paid to shill for babykillers. Best way to keep them broke is to block them and not engage.
bullhead2007@reddit
Yeah you're probably right. I wonder if they are US State dept or if they are IOF.
brydeswhale@reddit
Lol, maybe they’re British or Canadian. So many collaborators in horror, so little time.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Answer my question and I'll answer yours.
AccelRock@reddit
So they were a POW and the media is using the term hostage because reasons?
TheGalator@reddit
Least indoctrinated redditor
Zipz@reddit
Imagine saying hamas the side who took away practically all rights and voting from Palestinians are “Freedom fighters”
It’s actually wild how brainwashed you are
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
What makes you think they care about Palestinians? Hamas kills Israelis so they love Hamas. It's that simple. Did you read the threads about Hamas killing Gazans? They were practically tripping over themselves to justify it.
Aristotelaras@reddit
Israelis did that to themselves by bombing buildings full of civillians.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Wait until you hear what Hamas does to civilians.
ebola_kid@reddit
Kills a lot less of them than Israel?
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Oh look, it’s McAlpineFusiliers starting their shift of spewing hate and sucking Netanyahu’s balls.
Whatever they’re paying him, it’s too much
Zipz@reddit
Hey look it’s callmeclark
Who defends Hamas killing Palestinians
monocasa@reddit
McAlpineFusiliers has literally attacked the credibility of holocaust museums with me when that museum's articles don't agree with some pro Israel argument they're trying to make.
I hope they're a bot and there's not actual consciousness behind the shit the spew.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Yep, they’ve even spewing hate for a long time now.
onepareil@reddit
Maybe I’m just old and naive and behind the times, but I really think at least 90% of the users who get called bots and paid shills over topics like Palestine are real people with honest bad takes. Some people in this world are just severely and genuinely propaganda-brained.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
A significant number of these people are just 14 or 15 with incoherent opinions.
monocasa@reddit
Oh I think they're a real person. The last line is mostly an insult.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
They blocked me after I pointed out they hide their post history.
Of course we can see what those guys post anyway by searching for it.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Never done that, but the pro-Israel accounts sure are consistent with their talking points.
Don’t believe me? Watch McAlpineFusiliers posting patterns, they are consistent 8-hour shifts, M-F with no variation.
Sloppykrab@reddit
Are you obsessed with this person? Their comments are hidden.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
There are sites that analyze user activity to identify bots etc
McAlpine has been doing this a LONG time, and they comment on every single Israel-related post.
It’s always 8 hours a day M-F.
Sloppykrab@reddit
Oh cool.
What's the site you're using? I wanna sus it out.
Zipz@reddit
How funny is it that the guy ran away when asked for such a simple request
Zipz@reddit
Funny trying to change the subject again
Hamas abuses Palestinians and you could care less
You proved me and him right
It’s funny you pretend not to get it
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Whatever Netanyahu is paying you guys, it’s too much.
You’re supposed to pretend to be sad about dead Palestinians, but call it unavoidable. You need to get your talking points straight
Zipz@reddit
Hey look doing it again
Yelling hasbra when you get called out for not caring when Palestinians die isn’t the defense you think it is
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Anyone confused by Zipz apparent pro-Netanyahu stance should go read his comment history.
Nothing but pro-Israel anti-Palestinian spam, all day every day.
Zipz@reddit
Show me all my pro Bibi comments
I’ll wait
I love when people have to lie and change the subject because they were so badly embarrassed they had to go off track
Sloppykrab@reddit
He just won't comment that Hamas killing Palestinians is bad. Bro can't overcome cognitive dissonance.
Call_Me_Clark@reddit
Oh boy, look the bots are talking to each other.
Sloppykrab@reddit
010010010010000001110111011010010111001101101000001000000100100100100000011101110110000101110011001000000110000100100000011000100110111101110100
Zipz@reddit
Hey look still waiting for you to show us this website you have that shows people are bots
Oh wait you lied about that
LOL
toomanyshoeshelp@reddit
Sounds similar to Israeli posts these days justifying killing kids
Zipz@reddit
Trust me I know
The mask is off with these people
They claim they want peace and a ceasefire but when they get that they complain and move the goalposts
Their goal isn’t to help Palestinians. It’s to destroy Israel. They will sacrifice as many Palestinians as it takes to get that done
DangerousChipmunk335@reddit
Imagine acting like Israel wasn't the one that propped up Hamas to begin with.
Yall needed a badguy, reap what you sow.
Dark_Knight2000@reddit
That’s even less of a reason to call them freedom fighters. You just proved their point.
TraditionalGap1@reddit
Rich, coming from an American blaming Hamas for not allowing voting.
What happened the last time they voted?
Zipz@reddit
They were elected and took away elections
Weird how you think in anyway that is comparable to America
It’s actually embarrassing
yoguckfourself@reddit
You're so upset that Hamas is on its last legs
Funkliford@reddit
"Freedom fighters" Oh, you mean like the PKK? Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite. /s
porktorque44@reddit
I'll trash the IDF and the Israeli state for the rest of my life over this war but Hamas is not a freedom fighting organization.
One of the worst things about this whole conflict is that the Israeli government has acted regularly to keep Hamas in power instead of other more civil and democratic alternatives.
damnworldcitizen@reddit
Let's wait for historians to define genocide or not...
mendokusei15@reddit
Aaaaaaand that's it, people like you are exacly the reason I'm skipping every protest for Palestine.
We are not on the same side and I don't want to be associated with you. Constantly feeding the beasts, as we say here.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Good riddance. Maybe you should try recognizing and stop whitewashing real beasts. Dehumanizing Hamas has been the most effective tool for this genocide yet you still can't get off the fucking fence.
lordgoodsaar@reddit
Hamas literally have a call for genocide against Jews in their founding charter. October 7th was a terrorist attack, they weren't 'resisting' against unarmed citizens
TraditionalGap1@reddit
That same 'call for genocide' you're handwringing about (which as you say is from their founding charter, butcis no longer) has been repeatedly stated by the current Israeli government while they are conducting a genocide.
Fucking faithless hypocrites
Ajmb_88@reddit
And Israel is literally committing a genocide not just talking about it. Holy shit how do you say what you’re saying without acknowledging this. People like you really think the Jews deserve better treatment than any other human. Jews in Israel killing Palestinians = not bad. Palestinians in hamas TALKING about genocide = the worst in the world. The most harmful thing for Jewish people are dumbass Zionist saying shit like this and equating all Jews with your bullshit agenda.
mendokusei15@reddit
Good look debating with a straw man.
2dudesinapod@reddit
It’s hilarious one of the Israelis in captivity was called a civilian over and and over again by Israel and the western media for 2 years, as soon as he gets back home Israel admits he was a soldier all along in one of their “elite” units.
MentalRental@reddit
Calling Hamas "freedom fighters" is like calling Baruch Goldstein and Yigal Amir freedom fighters. Hamas isn't fighting for freedom, they are fighting for control and oppression. They have tortured, imprisoned, and killed any political opposition groups and have targeted protesters in the Gaza strip multiple times.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
"No one supports Hamas"
"OK yes we support Hamas and they're freedom fighters"
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Who says nobody supports them? Last year, maybe, but not anymore. I definitely critically support them, especially in the face of the zionazi genocide forces.
Sloppykrab@reddit
Ummmmm
cellocaster@reddit
It’s better in this case to support neither…
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Nope, you definitely dont have the moral high ground on this. You dont bothside colonizers vs. indigenous people unless you're an imperialist ghoul larping as an enlightened centrist. Your kind declared MLK an extremist terrorist back in the day.
GothicGolem29@reddit
They are not freedom fighters they masscred civs and caused a war that has lead to many many people dying
flossdaily@reddit
The BBC, the news org whose article we are discussing right now, is from a country that has officially designated hamas as a terrorist organization.
Just because your country of Turkey won't recognize a radical Muslim terrorist organization as a radical Muslim terrorist organization, doesn't mean the rest of the world is going to play dumb.
OptimisticRealist__@reddit
Calling Hamas freedom fighters is deplorable on so many different levels and yet so very fitting and representative of the brainrot this sub has experienced the past 2 yrs. The same people who wouldve supported al qaeda 25 yrs ago and isis 10 yrs ago.
reddit_is_geh@reddit
Yeah perfect example of propaganda. For all intents and purposes, those were prisoners of war. The fact the media intentionally chose to mislead everyone calling them "hostages" while the literal random innocent people Israel took off the streets and imprisoned were "detainees", just goes to show you how the collective media was deceiving you. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing.
860v2@reddit
Even soldiers kidnapped from tanks would need to be afforded certain rights, otherwise they’re just considered a hostage.
Edaimantis@reddit
Hamas are terrorists who suspended elections in Palestine to absorb power.
Either you know this and are a troll, or you are just trying to spread misinfo.
FlargenBlarg@reddit
Most of the hostages are not soldiers
notsocharmingprince@reddit
I wonder if she will get back pay.
tabulasomnia@reddit
Hamas is as much freedom fighters as PKK - which is to say, not at all.
JucheSuperSoldier01@reddit
Classic Turk response. I would expect nothing less.
tabulasomnia@reddit
explain
mdedetrich@reddit
Sweeping Armenian genocide under the rug
tabulasomnia@reddit
who said anything about the genocide?
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
A lot more than you think buddy. Way to slander our country's name by indirectly equating us to the genocidal ethnostate. Such a shame how many parallels there are between Turkish&Zionist nationalism. I just hope that we don't revert back to our genocidal past (I'm sure you're a genocide denier as well as a Kurd hater) and people like you become a thing of the past (like late 19th, early 20th century).
TheJewPear@reddit
Your comment aged like a fruit fly, it seems Hamas has violated the agreement and only returned 4 corpses of Israelis and not 20 as agreed.
pseudopad@reddit
Maybe they'll get the rest once they clear the rubble of the 40 city blocks that are on top of them.
CatGoblinMode@reddit
Well terrorist is literally what each side calls the enemy. The US is one of the biggest terrorist states on the planet. Just the other week they were bombing random civilian boats from Venezuela and a few months back they bombed a block of apartments in Yemen. The UK and NATO are terrorists for the invasion of Iraq, etc.
Hamas is an organisation that is extreme. Absolutely. And yeah most people would not condone their actions or beliefs at all— but you also have to understand what led to the existence and support of such an extreme group.
Israel has been committing abuses against Palestinians for decades. 98% of children in Palestine show signs of trauma. it's no wonder that militants with extreme ideas are going to be seen as preferable to more of the same lame political parties that are controlled by Israel and the West.
pseudopad@reddit
NATO didn't invade Iraq. A selection of nations that also were in NATO did. The US famously threw a tantrum over France not helping them with their invasion war.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
I'm reading that Hamas is now saying that they'll release only 4 of the 28 deceased hostages, which is not what they agreed to do. So let's not get ahead of ourselves yet 😂
ifnotthefool@reddit
I wonder how many of the thousands of Palestinians hostages israel is holding will be released.
860v2@reddit
Those are detainees/prisoners, not hostages.
ifnotthefool@reddit
Again, that's untrue.
860v2@reddit
That’s not an argument. Try again.
ifnotthefool@reddit
If Israel is the one who classified them as prisoners, you know it's questionable.
whogivesashirtdotca@reddit
My god, the equivocation. A lot of them are children. Or were children when they were taken.
860v2@reddit
Children can’t commit crimes and/or terrorism?
whogivesashirtdotca@reddit
Good point.
AuroraPo@reddit
They’re hostages held illegally by an occupying terrorist force.
860v2@reddit
False, they’re detainees/prisoners. Maybe they should have tried not being terrorists.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Israel isn't holding any hostages.
rattleandhum@reddit
There are 400 plus children in Israeli military detention, held without charge.
What is that, if not a hostage?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Source?
And it's a form of punishment and criminal justice. They're not being held to get concessions from anyone.
rattleandhum@reddit
recent: https://www.newarab.com/news/israeli-forces-arrest-two-young-boys-west-bank-spying
There is video of this too. THe kids can't be older than 10.
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/save-children-ceo-warns-un-indecision-gaza-complicity-children-are-being-starved-death
https://www.dci-palestine.org/41_percent_of_palestinian_child_detainees_have_no_charges
I can't find the most recent article I read on this, a lot of data is available for earlier this year though.
But this practice goes back decades.
historic:
2013: https://www.unicef.org/sop/documents/children-israeli-military-detention
2024: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/26/why-are-there-so-many-palestinian-children-in-israeli-prisons
2022-24: https://www.btselem.org/statistics/minors_in_custody
ifnotthefool@reddit
Yes, they are. They have been for decades. I suggest you do some research.
Also, why do you think they dont allow any international journalists into Gaza?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
I suggest you learn what a hostage is and then tell me who specifically is a hostage held by Israel.
They did let international journalists into Gaza but they didn't let them run around on their own because they didn't want them to get killed in the crossfire.
ifnotthefool@reddit
Innocent people are being tortured in prison. Those are hostages.
You're right about the journalists. Israel would have killed them like all the Palestinian ones.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
No, they're not. Hostage: "a person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition."
No Palestinians are being held as security for the fulfillment of a condition. They're held for committing crimes. Would you call prisoners in jail in the US hostages?
Hamas just killed a journalist. Any thoughts on that?
bullhead2007@reddit
How many of these prisoners have had a proper trial and have been convicted of any crime?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
The vast majority of them. Can you answer my question now. Would you call prisoners in jail in the US hostages?
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
Are you just pretending Administrative detention in Isreal doesn't exist? Bit of an uncomfortable truth for you?
Are children in the US tried in a military court or a civil one?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Administrative detention does exist but the vast majority of Palestinian prisoners aren't in it.
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. Would you call prisoners in jail in the US hostages?
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
Those in administrative detention are hostages. They are taken and held without charge or trial in order to force those that are left to stop resisting their colonial efforts.
No I wouldn't, but that's not an equal comparison.
Please justify charging children in military courts now.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
No, they're not. Please prove that statement.
Palestine uses child soldiers. Even Amnesty International admits that. Please justify Palestine using child soldiers now.
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
Then explain why people are held without charge or trial.
Please show evidence that even a majority of children tried under a military court in Israel are child soldiers. If you can't, you're doing the same thing you called out earlier - using a minority of cases to explain all of them.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
I'll respond to those once you prove your statement above and justify Palestine using child soldiers .
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
Holding people without charge or trial can serve only one purpose, fear that others may join. Unless you have another explanation.
I never said Palestine didn't have child soldiers so why would I justify it? I'm not justifying claims I haven't made.
If your explanation of Palestinian children being tried in military courts is that there are child soldiers, you need to be able to prove that the majority (at least) are child soldiers.
That's even before we get onto the treatment of palestinian prisoners and people held in administrative detention by Israel.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Wrong. It serves the purpose of keeping them off the streets looking to kill again.
What would you consider to be proof?
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
If they have killed people, why haven't they been charged with murder?
What would I consider proof? Well for starters you could prove that throwing a rock at a tank or a settlement constitutes being a child soldier.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Maybe the prosecution is still building a case.
"Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks. "
According to AI, you don't even have to throw a rock to be a child soldier. Palestine uses them to "transport explosives and munitions".
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
That's a pathetic excuse. Is that really the best you have? Would you object to being held in prison for 6 months without a charge and the reason you're given is 'we're still building a case'?
Poor attempt at deflection. Please show how children throwing rocks constitute them being child soldiers. Seeing as that's what I asked.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Which part of assaulting people with a deadly weapon makes them not child soldiers?
https://abcnews.go.com/US/teen-threw-rock-off-highway-overpass-killing-man/story?id=66631347
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
I need a response to my first point before we continue.
Would you object to being held for 6 months without charge because 'we're still building a case'?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
I'm not pro-administrative detention, no. But I understand why it's used, and many countries use it, not just Israel.
Sure_Fruit_8254@reddit
Most countries that use administrative detention use it for illegal immigration or for their own military so that's a bit disingenuous. China uses it a lot but for reasons similar to Israels, as does Egypt and Jordan. They get condemned for that practice by human rights group as well as Israel.
If you understand why it is used, please explain because what you've said so far is 'maybe they're still building a case'. You also said it was because these people were murderers, but have provided no reasoning why they wouldn't be charged with murder.
ifnotthefool@reddit
That isn't true, at all. If you have to lie to make a point, you may be on the wrong side.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Would you call prisoners in jail in the US hostages?
ifnotthefool@reddit
You realize israel has children in jail... military jail where they have less rights than American prisoners. Have you done zero research? This is so strange.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
You realize that Palestine uses child soldiers? Would you call prisoners in jail in the US hostages?
bullhead2007@reddit
You are just a Nazi holy shit
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/mde150332005en.pdf
"Palestinian armed groups have repeatedly shown total disregard for the most fundamental human rights, notably the right to life, by deliberately targeting Israeli civilians and by using Palestinian children in armed attacks"
Are Amnesty International Nazis?
bullhead2007@reddit
You are a Nazi because you are automatically using this as a reason to dehumanize child hostages held by Israel. You don't see them as human, that's why you are a Nazi. Amnesty reporting on some instances of them using children to resist their colonial oppressors are not Nazis because they aren't dehumanizing them.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
All I'm doing is telling the truth, if Palestine uses child soldiers, they end up in jail. Palestine are the Nazis, the Nazis used child soldiers too.
Oh, so you think it's OK for them to use child soldiers. So much for that concern about international law and human rights. If there's something Palestine does that you guys won't defend, I haven't found it.
bullhead2007@reddit
Where did I imply that it was okay? Understanding why something happens, like why oppressed people use desperate tactics to fight oppressors, doesn't mean they are good or that I condone them. This is like backing an animal into a corner and blaming the animal for biting you. How about Israel stops their occupation, blockade and indiscriminate killing and displacement of the Palestinians? They wouldn't be using child soldiers if Israel wasn't constantly killing them and refusing to let them have autonomy over their lives.
ALSO if we're using your logic then all Israelis over 18 are valid war targets because they are all conscripted into IOF and therefor are not hostages but are "prisoners". I on the other hand would consider anyone not on active duty and in uniform that was captured as a hostage and anyone on active duty in uniform as a hostage.
I also think that if a Palestinian CHILD was actually acting as a soldier they should NOT BE TORTURED IN A PRISON CAMP BY ISRAEL. Nothing you've said justifies hundreds of Palestinian children being held captive. It doesn't matter even if they were "soldiers".
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
So how should Israel treat child soldiers? Let them go free?
bullhead2007@reddit
If they are actually child soldiers and this was proven and reviewed by third party entities like UN, because Israel can't be trusted, then yes they should be released but perhaps to a humanitarian organization. Palestine just released a bunch of IOF soldiers who invaded their homeland and they weren't tortured or starved. Why do you expect Hamas to release adult soldiers but child soldiers can be held indefinitely in a torture camp by Israel? They are fucking children. At the very least if Israel was a humane place that wasn't full of ethno-supremacist Nazis then the kids could be treated humanely and sent to schools to try and show them a better way. But Israel are a bunch of ethno-supremacist genocidal freaks so they have no way to treat children they don't see as human beings humanely.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
The UN never reviews the individual arrests of parties in conflict. That's ridiculous.
They were absolutely tortured and starved! What are you reading, Hamas.com?
ifnotthefool@reddit
How does that compute with all of the human rights violations israel commits? Do you have brain damage?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. Are Amnesty International Nazis?
ifnotthefool@reddit
No, israel is. So are Israel's supporters.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
"no u"
I'm glad we agree that AI are not Nazis and their findings about Palestine's use of child soldiers is accurate.
Now then, I don't have brain damage and it's not a human rights violation to jail a child soldier. Thanks.
ifnotthefool@reddit
Lol, clearly what you are saying is wrong. I am sad for you.
ifnotthefool@reddit
Where is the proof they are all child soldiers? You need to back up your claims with evidence. Israel's fails to do so routinely.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. You need to back up your claims with evidence.
ifnotthefool@reddit
What kind of trial do these child soldiers get? What is the conviction rate, and how does it compare to America's conviction rate.
Look up those numbers and get back to me.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. You need to back up your claims with evidence.
ifnotthefool@reddit
You keep deflecting. Why are you doing that?
Another thing you can look up: how long do the trials last for these 'child soldiers' and how does that compare to American trials.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
You're deflecting, not me. Answer my question and I'll answer yours. You need to back up your claims with evidence.
ifnotthefool@reddit
Lol, it's hard for me to fathom you are even real. So disgusting and disappointing.
bullhead2007@reddit
That is actually incorrect
The vast majority of Palestinian hostages have not had a trial.
Prisoners in US have due process, many of them are innocent and are victims of our white supremacist society and put into slavery but they aren't hostages I suppose.
Palestinians do not get due process and are tortured and starved to death in Israeli prisons. Your comparison is not even in the same universe.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
There are no Palestinian hostages. Look up what a hostage is, you sound like a fool.
Wow, wait until you find out what happened to the Bibas boys in the hands of Hamas.
bullhead2007@reddit
Okay Hasbara bot, when one side just decides all of the children they kidnap and throw into torture camps are "Pristoners" and that all of their soldiers who are captured during active combat are "kidnapped Hostages" Because their 18 year old 4 star general was taken from a tank, I don't think that when they call everyone they put in a cell as "prisoners" is the truth.
Israel just calls them prisoners when they are captured and tortured political captives. They aren't prisoners because they were given due process and convicted by an unbiased group of peers. Get the fuck out of here you genocidal maniac.
ifnotthefool@reddit
They aren't all guilty, my man. Where is the due process? They are also being held in disgusting conditions. Being tortured. Bodies have been found with organs removed. This is straight up Nazi shit. You are defending modern day nazis.
Israel has killed more journalists than any other country in any other war. You could add all the journalists killed in numerous wars, and it still would be less than the amount israel has killed.
Stubbs94@reddit
They're guilty of being Palestinians in his mind. McAlpine is a massive racist
ifnotthefool@reddit
Clearly, lol.
So weird, man. Straight up evil shit.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
So you acknowledge they're not hostages. Good. We're making progress.
Israel has killed more people that Hamas and company claim are journalists. Let's see the evidence they were actually journalists and not terrorists on the payroll of a newspaper.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
I'm wondering how each side is managing the logistics of something like this 🤷
bidet_sprays@reddit
One side will shoot rockets at the group of freed prisoners as they are walking away. Logistics managed!
AVeryBadMon@reddit
1700 according to the deal
blancrabbiit@reddit
This is the Oslo Accords all over again....
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
i'm sorry but that's peanuts, it's the disarming and dislodging from power we should be laser focused on.
KaiBahamut@reddit
Yeah, with any luck we can end then Israeli terror regime.
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
Ok buddy, have fun storming the castle
KaiBahamut@reddit
live by sword, die by sword.
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
If you insist. We'll be over here living.
KaiBahamut@reddit
Not with that attitude.
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
Ok buddy, have fun storming the castle
-Recouer@reddit
I mean.. do they even still have those bodies to begin with ?
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
I hope 🤷
Even if they do, I wonder what state they are even in
ijzerwater@reddit
burried under rubble
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Damn, impressive that Hamas could dig up all of this rubble to hand them over in just a few days
ijzerwater@reddit
there may be 10 000 or more burried there. Some will never be found. other they know where they are and get to Israel.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Hamas says they have all the bodies and will deliver them soon. There are only 28 (48?) deceased hostages left in gaza, not 10000 lol. You think Hamas took 10000 hostages? 😂😂
ijzerwater@reddit
there may be 10 000 bodies burried
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Ah sorry, I care about the 28 from Israel left over there
ijzerwater@reddit
does that mean you don't care about dead Palestinians?
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
I clearly said I care about the 28 Israelis still in Gaza
-Recouer@reddit
It would be nice but they are most probably under the rubbles of a destroyed building, for the most part
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Doubt it, since Hamas has clearly said they can have all of them handed to Israel by end of today
Desembler@reddit
What is your source for this? This very article says:
perseustree@reddit
That's not what I have been reading. Can you please share where you got this information?
-Recouer@reddit
Oh I see. We'll just have to wait and see i guess then
JucheSuperSoldier01@reddit
A lot of them were probably blown to pieces by the IOF during the child holocaust they conducted.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
Then Hamas the Islamic fundamental militant terror organisation shouldn't have said they can deliver all the bodies by the end of the day that they've kept in tunnels during their terror kidnapping and raping spree they conducted that you lot cheered for like cretin
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Hamas breaking the agreement, what a shock /s
Knave7575@reddit
Hamas also agreed to disarm. I’m not holding my breath for that one since they are already executing people.
2dudesinapod@reddit
Israel still isn’t allowing the aid they promised into Gaza.
justhistory@reddit
Oh really? Hmm… ‘Real Progress’ Is Made in Delivering Aid to Gaza, U.N. Says
chinomaster182@reddit
The ceasefire deal has that in phase 2 which hasn't been agreed to yet.
cmonnomorework@reddit
Sure they are, and hamas still genociding jews, enslaving women, murdering lgbtq
justhistory@reddit
Hamas is already trying to reassert control of Gaza, is executing Gazans by the dozens to punish their political enemies, and leaders are now backtracking on disarmament. They’re already steering away from the peace plan. Real reconstruction of Gaza and prosperity for Gazans will not come while Hamas remains in power.
Funpop73@reddit
They’re punishing those who were being paid by and conspiring with Israel.
justhistory@reddit
That’s actually not accurate. Some of the clans rejected any backing from Israel. They’re just attempting to reassert their authority and attempting to once again have the monopoly of force in Gaza.
Redditthedog@reddit
the bodies weren’t released so not complying
InfernalBiryani@reddit
Hamas shouldn’t be glorified, but after all this time IDK how people are still so quick to call them a terrorist group.
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
Terrorism is just what the US and its allies call violence they don’t endorse
blancrabbiit@reddit
Quite frankly, no amount of violence should be endorsed if a peaceful solution can be reached.
redridingoops@reddit
Because of propaganda. That and racism.
Emergency-Style7392@reddit
you're defending a group that sends thousands of unguided missiles into densely populated cities.
redridingoops@reddit
Israel does worse... But with guided missile.
I hope you do see how that's worse, I can explain things to you, not understand them for you.
Anyway, hope the US will bankrool greater Israel until the end of times, it will run out of greatness pretty quick otherwise, terrorist states built on stolen land do tend to fail without free weapons.
IntrepidAd2478@reddit
What else would you call a group that takes women and children, including infants, hostage, randomly fires rockets into civilian areas, and uses suicide bombers?
Mstinos@reddit
Don't forget the rape. So much rape.
ProfessionalTalk482@reddit
Didn't israel had a protest where they want the right to rape a palestinian?
Mstinos@reddit
Source?
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-idf-palestinian-prisoner-alleged-rape-sde-teinman-abuse-protest/
Mstinos@reddit
Wtf. Had not heard this before. Thanks for the source.
JucheSuperSoldier01@reddit
There were no verified instances of rape on October 7th. You are spreading propaganda that Israel used to justify their child holocaust.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
And you're spreading Hamas propoganda
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Where is the evidence then?
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
UN, HRW
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Who had to admit their source was the genocide forces and they couldnt verify independently almost a year ago. Get a fucking grip.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
Loool, alright buddy, i'm sure hostages and health providers are Genocide forces, sure
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
UN's source was the IDF. Big lies repeated endlessly doesnt work in the age of social media, sorry.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
The fuck is that source? Might as well name it Hamasnews
IntrepidAd2478@reddit
There are numerous hostages since freed who testified to their rape. Hamas filmed their atrocities for all to see.
akanefuru@reddit
Umm... freedom fighters?
What do you call a group that invades peoples homes? Snipes them from the street? Abducts kids?
If you can them terrorists looks like IOF and Israel are the biggest terrorists around.
IntrepidAd2478@reddit
There is a huge difference between the tactics and goals of the IDF and Hamas which is easily seen by those willing to look.
akanefuru@reddit
Yes Israel has openly stated that they want to get rid of all Arabs and Palestinians.
I don't see anything wrong with Hamas stating the same for Israelis.
Oh then it's anti semitic? Fuck off and at least equally apply your morality and rules to everyone.
mdedetrich@reddit
Freedom fighters don’t go around abducting completely innocent civilians (and abducting is putting it really lightly)
akanefuru@reddit
Nor do "the only democracy in the middle east".
Your IOF goes around into homes in the middle of the night and abducts people in the West bank where there is no Hamas.
mdedetrich@reddit
No one is saying what Israel is doing is freedom fighting and democracy doesn’t have anything to do by to with it.
When Israel retaliated after Oct 7 and the UN asked Sinwar/Hamas to provide shelter of the vast underground network built with all of that Western aid money to Palestinians, Sinwar figuratively gave a middle finger and said Palestinians can f**k themselves and remain above ground.
Doesn’t sound like freedom fighters to me, and more like using Palestinians as pawns to antagonize Israel due to being an Iranian proxy (a country that doesn’t think Israel should exist)
SouvlakiPlaystation@reddit
What Israel is doing is 100% terrorism and genocide. However by your definition terrorism doesn't exist. These people literally ran up to thousands of citizens at a music festival and slit their throats/gunned them down. If you want to valorize that maybe look inward.
akanefuru@reddit
Terrorism definitely does exist. But after 75+ years of terrorism on your people by the occupier, you eventually resort to terrorism.
Don't give me the bullshit that you'd be peacefully pacified for 75+ years.
Cavalleria-rusticana@reddit
Israel, minus the suicide.
Silent-Warning9028@reddit
IDF?
lepeluga@reddit
Remove the suicide bombers and you can call them the most moral army in the world
Downtown-Theme-3981@reddit
Well if you take off suicide bombers, then all 3 involved - israel, us and hamas fits to this describtion.
OsgrobioPrubeta@reddit
Because they are, other users are pointing some of their actions against Israelis, but the fact is that they committed terrorist acts to Palestinians too once they were elected.
GR1ZZLYBEARZ@reddit
Where are the other 24 dead hostages supposed to be handed over today? You terrorist simps are something else, Hamas hasn’t even been able to complete the first phase of the deal.
blancrabbiit@reddit
Hopefully, it doesn't end up like the Oslo accords again.
Zipz@reddit
Hamas who said they wouldn’t disband or disarm?
The same one who says they won’t give back some of the other hostages ?
In what freaking reality do you live in?
ycnz@reddit
Will Israel disarm?
Stubbs94@reddit
Well, they have to fight the ISIS gangs Israel created still.
Zipz@reddit
So glad we got this straight
Hamas is the one who loudly saying they will break the ceasefire and you ignore it
Gubbinso@reddit
So you think it's a good idea to disarm, allowing previously imprisoned ISIS-affiliated gang members who were freed and armed by Israel to seize power? What a Fantastic idea, disarm while traitorous extremists are roaming about.
Those same extremists are going to be attacking whatever interim government is made and whatever "International Stabilisation Force" is sent into Gaza.
Zipz@reddit
And doing it again
Hamas signs a ceasefire
Tells everyone they are going to break it
And they go around killing Palestinians
And you ignore it
Gubbinso@reddit
The ceasefire is between Hamas and Israel, right? Why would fighting extremists armed by israel constitute violating a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel?
So you're saying they should disarm while extremists are in place to seize power? Before the "international stabilisation force" is even made? You zionists love engaging in bad faith by only examining things in a vacuum.
>And you ignore it
Ironic, considering your reductive and unintelligent view on the current events that lacks even the slightest bit of nuance.
Zipz@reddit
Hamas signs a ceasefire that says they will disarm.
They refuse to
What’s confusing about this?
They shouldn’t of signed it if they were going to lie
Gubbinso@reddit
What you're missing is:
To suggest that they should disarm overnight ignores that successful demilitarisation occurs with constant cooperation from all sides over months or years. Maybe you're not intelligent enough to understand this and that is okay. Just admit you are unable to think beyond the surface and have little knowledge of history.
Zipz@reddit
You must of missed hamas saying they won’t disarm at all
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hkr1yb00tlg
So you don’t have a point
tofoz@reddit
They did say they would disband and disarm, giving their weapons to the new government of Palestine's security force.
Zipz@reddit
They say a lot of things
And they lie a lot
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hkr1yb00tlg
SquirtSommelier@reddit
What did they comply to exactly? They could have just not taken the hostages in the first place!
splader@reddit
Mmm, and Israel could have stopped mass killing them decades ago.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Zionists could have a homeland without ethnically cleansing Palestine and establishing a "Jewish" majority settler-colonial apartheid ethnostate.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
Very good
Now pull up numbers of Non arabs % of people in Gaza vs non-jewish people in Israeal
Wich one is an Apartheid Ethnostate? Lot's of fancy buzzwords there without any meaning
phaedrus910@reddit
When Israel was being bombed by Iran earlier who was not allowed in the bomb shelters? Was it A) Holocaust Survivors B) Ethnic Palestinians C) Hasidic Jews or D) Tourists and Americans on birthright?
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
Bad answer, give me the % not some whataboutism
phaedrus910@reddit
You're on the wrong side of history. It's not my job to fix you.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
Cool, now give the % and give me examples of other populations being persecetuded because they aren't jews
phaedrus910@reddit
No.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
Got it
Elman89@reddit
Lmao what? Does it surprise you that a Palestinian bantustan's population is mostly Palestinians?
Buddy these are legal terms which do have meaning.
WouldbangMelisandre@reddit
Lmao does it suprise you that Israel is mostly Jewish?
Legal terms yes, can't apply it to Israel tho
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Lol are you telling me that Gaza, the open air refugee camp for Palestinians ethnically cleansed from their homelands, has too many Palestinians? I dont think that was their fucking choice, you absolute ghoul.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
So Jews could have a homeland as long as they live under the Arab bootheel and have no self-determination? Gee, thanks for the generous offer.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
It is generous given how you were supposed to be refugees and not colonizers. What gives you or anybody the right to invade and ethnically cleanse somebody else's homeland? Im talking about post 19th century btw, not the fucking middle ages.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
It's called self-determination and it's the right of all indigenous peoples, including the indigenous Jews. What gives the Arabs the right to invade and steal Palestine in the 7th century and then keep it for themselves and themselves alone for all eternity?
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
Palestinians are the descendants of Canaanites, of Jews that remained after the Roman expulsion of the Jews and assimilated, and other indigenous peoples of the region.
But nice rhetoric meant to deny the existence of the Palestinian people, and contribute to their genocide.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Palestinians are Arabs, read their declaration of independence and constitution.
Answer my question. What gives the Palestinian Arabs the right to invade and steal Palestine in the 7th century and then keep it for themselves and themselves alone for all eternity?
So are Syrians, Jordanians, and Lebanese Arabs. Are all of those groups indigenous to Palestine? Do all of those groups have the right to invade and steal Palestine and keep it for themselves for all eternity?
rattleandhum@reddit
pointless talking to you when genetic evidence points otherwise.
FudgeAtron@reddit
Of course a South African believes in blood and soil nationalism
rattleandhum@reddit
jesus christ thats a stretch.
FudgeAtron@reddit
Then why bring up genetics? Neither Jewish nor Arab ethnicity is based in genetics, but in religion and culture. It's not actually relevant.
rattleandhum@reddit
A lot of Palestinians Christians and Muslims have ancient hebrew DNA. If you're going to use the homeland argument, then why doesn't it apply to them.
The people of that land were ruled over by the Arabs, the Ottomans, and British. Their leaders may have changed or been expelled, but the people weren't. Many of those ancient jews converted, and are now being killed by jews whose grandparents hadn't been anywhere near the levant for hundreds and in some cases thousands of years.
FudgeAtron@reddit
Ok so you are saying genetics is a key component of belonging somewhere? I.e. certain groups on the basis of their genetics should live in certain places and groups with different genetics should not live there. That's why you're bringing this up?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
What genetic evidence are you referring to?
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
Yes, Arabs did invade. And the people of Palestine assimilated under them, just as they assimilated to various other empires that ruled the region. That history is a part of what makes them a distinct identity from the rest of the Arab world. You can trace back Palestinians recognizing themselves as a distinct people since at least the 1700s, and various commentators going back a thousand years will tell you about the unique peculiarities of the Jerusalem Arabs in a time before nation-states, but Empires.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
I see. Everyone has the right to form their own states except Jews. Thanks for laying out the double standards so clearly for us.
So when Arabs took over Palestine without consent of the Jewish people, what happened? That was A-OK?
So does 80-90% of Jewish, Syrian, and Jordanian DNA. So what? If they all have the same DNA, what makes Palestinians the sole and solitary masters of Palestine as they define it?
Palestinians are Arabs so Palestinians did the assimilating and cannot claim to be indigenous.
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
Going right to the fucking antisemitic accusation. You're being blocked after this comment. If you're labeling the blatant pursuit of justice as antisemitic and weaponizing antisemitism, it means you're not here in good faith. Which was already apparent but you crossed a line.
There is no legitimate right to self determination if ethnic cleansing is involved.
It has nothing to do with Jewishness. FWIW, I'm working with a couple Ute groups here in Colorado trying to work towards a future of reestablishing them here after they were ethnically cleansed. A lot of us (I included) hope for a future where Colorado / the US will have to contend with a Native nationhood and do more to implement binationalism or such.
Except Jews assimilated under the Roman Empire and eventually assimilated under Arab caliphates.
It was fucked up. That's why after the fall of European colonialism and the Ottoman Empire, the world transitioned to nation-states and left empires behind.
????
You don't understand logic. Just agenda. And your agenda is the obliteration of Palestinians as a people and a nation.
Zoetekauw@reddit
It's preposterous to pretend Arabs are not indigenous when they've lived there for hundreds of years.
Tribes and peoples have conquered other tribes and peoples' lands since the dawn of man. It's equally ridiculous to propose we divvy that all back up to whomever came first.
Oh and if we did, y'all can vacate North America.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
"It's preposterous to claim that white people are not indigenous when they've lived in America for hundreds of years"
"It's preposterous to claim that the British are not indigenous to Ireland when they've lived in Ireland for hundreds of years."
There's no fucking exceptions for Arabs.
Great, so let's just leave all the countries where they are now and any populations that are stateless can get fucked. Who cares about rights, like the right of self-determination?
Zoetekauw@reddit
What exception am I making for Arab nations?
Also, stateless? Israel has a state. They're the ones who don't want Palestinians to have one, not the other way round.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
The Arab nations are the only nations to colonize an area and then have it be preposterous to point out they're not indigenous to the places they colonized.
Not for long if Palestine had its way.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Indigenous people who get skin cancer if they so much as look out the window without sunscreen and plant tundra trees in the middle of the Levant? Gtfo. Even if we were to not believe our lying eyes, there is literal DNA evidence showing that Palestinians have been there since the bronze age. Most of the Jews never left, they became Muslims.
I told you I was talking about modern, supposedly civilized, post-Genova convention world and not the medieval ages but you went all the way back to the beginning of the frigging dark ages. We might as well give Italy to Visigoths by that logic.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
Answer my question. What gives the Arabs the right to invade and steal Palestine in the 7th century and then keep it for themselves and themselves alone for all eternity?
No such evidence exists, and which Palestinians?
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Ok zionazi.
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
Instead fuck the Palestinian’s right to self determination?
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
You guys are unbelievable. You call Jewish self-determination "settler colonial apartheid ethnostate" and then turn around and whine about Palestinian right to self-determination.
Either both groups have the right to statehood or neither do. I think both do. How about you?
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
ahistorical
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Sure, if you think that word means anything that goes against the biblical mythology.
SymphoDeProggy@reddit
No it means means unaware and contradictory of historical events
Why are running to the bible?
cmonnomorework@reddit
lol life expectancy in gaza was 75, but, well I guess thats reduced after 10/7. Nice job hamas!
SquirtSommelier@reddit
So could the Palestinians, are you forgetting the First and Second Intifada?
Cavalleria-rusticana@reddit
You mean the uprisings against the entrenched occupation of Gaza and the West Bank and decades-long abuse by Israeli fundamentalists? The ones where at least three times more Palestinians were killed, just like literally every other conflict between the two?
You seem to lack serious context to this region's history, or are just willfully being obtuse.
Not-reallyanonymous@reddit
The intifadas is the worst “gotcha!” they can use, and really reveals their mentality.
The first intifada, which was lead by the UNLU which rejected violent elements and militancy — the militants and terrorists in that period were lone wolf actors. Israel responded against protests, boycotts, strikes, and acts of civil disobedience with lethal force. About 1,000 people were killed, about 300 of them children. Israel destroyed 2,000 houses in retaliation. 50,000 people were injured. Civil leaders and politicians were jailed indefinitely, people convicted of crimes involving acts of civil disobedience were given disproportionate jail terms up to decades long. Israeli soldiers were breaking the bones of children under the age of 10.
The second intifada started largely peacefully, and Israel responded with extreme violence. According to Wikipedia, “Within the first few days of the uprising, the Israeli military fired one million rounds of ammunition.” Hundreds were killed. Including the infamous video of a father and son hiding and taking shelter from Israeli gunfire until Israel eventually gets them and kills them: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/J8w1IdwTWh8
Reddit_Sucks_1401@reddit
Both reactions to Israel's occupation. Not saying they did everything right when it happened, but Israel is why they happened.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Yeah, why did they ever decide to resist. Just look how well Israel treats Palestinans living in the West Bank.
SquirtSommelier@reddit
Taking hostages and killing innocent people is not an act of resistance
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
It was a desperate act of resistance. It's not like Palestinians really have an option to resist in any other way, they can't fight Israel in the open.
howmanyones@reddit
They can't fight Israel in the open, but they can massacre civilians, including women and children, and kidnap hundreds of people, knowing Israel will do whatever they have to to get their people back. Then they will hole up in every civilian center they have at their disposal for years, letting their people get killed, and only to give back the hostages in the end after-all, in exchange for...PEACE.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Hannibal Directive.
howmanyones@reddit
What are you suggesting?
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Israel only cares about its people because they are a political liability so they'd rather kill them rather than allowing them to get captured. Which was precisely the goal of Hamas and also why the IOF knowingly turned it into a bloodbath.
howmanyones@reddit
To me it just sounds like you're saying that Hamas intentionally dragged Israel into a prolonged war, knowing that Israel values the lives of its people.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Nope, Israel didn't have to commit genocide. Hamas does seem to have miscalculated their callous disregard for humanity. However, their miscalculation doesn't absolve Israel of the said and rather unprecedented levels of callous disregard for humanity even by their own standards. Stop blaming the fucking victim.
howmanyones@reddit
Pointing to Hamas as a victim is ridiculous.
mdedetrich@reddit
As they say, Arabs will only find peace when they value their children and society more than hating Jews
X-XIQ@reddit
Ah the classic Meir quote. Racist then and racist now. Bullshit too.
mdedetrich@reddit
Unfortunately it’s true, Israel did everything that they were asked to do by withdrawing entirely from Gaza (including all Jewish settlements) and all they got in return was constant attacks and provocation from Hamas.
And it’s not just Israel that had to deal with this, Jordan did in the 70s (see black September) and Lebanon after. Every single country Palestinians have settled has created chaos, why do you think no Middle Eastern country was willing to accept them as refugees
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
How about withdrawing from the entite Palestinian territory defined by the international law? And accepting the Right of Return and thus ackowledging their past crimes like the Nakba?
Carefull, that's what the Nazis loved to say about the Jews too.
mdedetrich@reddit
Do you have Amnesia? Israel already tried withdrawing entirely from Gaza Strip in 2005. All that happened was Hamas got in power and spent the next couple of decades bombarding Israel with rocket fire.
And drop the whole right of return, aside from just a smokescreen for anti semetic wiping of Jews from Israel it’s also entirely hypocritical and selective.
We don’t have Germany asking for right of return for all the Germans kicked out of west Poland, nor do we have right of return for the all of the Ukrainians kicked out of Eastern Poland. I could keep on going but you get the point
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Yes, from a part of the occupied Palestinian territory. Did you even read my point?
The Right of Return of people who have been forcefully removed is now antisemitic? Nothing is stopping Germans from returning to Poland or Ukraine if they wanted to.
Do you feel comfortable using the same rhetoric as Nazis did againts the Jews? Why did you avoid that?
mdedetrich@reddit
Yes I did, and as I said historically this hasn't worked.
Yes, for the same reasons that wacko Germans who think West Poland should be returned to Germany, or I don't know, almost any area in the EU if you go back far enough.
Its been 70-80 years, right of return would mean kicking out of all Jewish people that have settled there.
I never did, don't put words in my mouth. Aside that the entire region of middle east is laden with semitism and thats objectively true.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
When did Israel withdraw from the entire Palestinian territory? I don't remember that.
It would've been more symbolic than anything. I don't think that many Palestinians would want to return to Israel. And let's say that your racist point is true and Palestinians would become the majority and wanted to genocide Israelis. Do you think the world would just allow that? It's just a bad excuse.
You said that nobody wants Palestinians and that they only create chaos. Well, that's what the Nazis said about the Jews. You know, the whole Jews have been expelled from 109, it must've been their fault.
mdedetrich@reddit
They withdrew entirely from Gaza strip in 2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the_Gaza_Strip
I don't know how you came to that conclusion, but I don't know of anyone who thinks thats what right of return means. Right of return literally means relocating all of the Palestinians and their families (because for some odd reason, thanks to UNRWA, Palestinians are the only ethnicity that has heritable refugee status) back into Israel where other people currently live right now.
This comparison is so absurd that its not worth talking about.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Once again, when did Israel withdraw from the ENTIRE Palestinian territory? If you don't have an answer, you're lying it was never tried.
"Under international law, all refugees have a right to return to areas from which they have fled or were forced, to receive compensation for damages, and to either regain their properties or receive compensation and support for voluntary resettlement."
Voluntary. Nobody would force them.
Okay, explain why then. I think it's a great example of how similar Zionists and Nazis are. They just hate a different group.
mdedetrich@reddit
Thats a stramwan you made, I consistently claimed they withdrew entirely from Gaza, nothing more.
You do realize that Palestinians are the only ethnicity that has refugee status that is hereditary? The people that would be returning to Israel are not the same people from the 1940s-1960s, most of them are dead or close to dying.
The situation is so ridiculous that Palestinians not even born in Palestine/Israel but overseas (lets say America) are able to return back to Israel? Does that even sound remotely sensical to you?
Again, its been 70-80 years, none of the Palestinians living there would be conventionally speaking refugees and the only reason they are is because Palestinians (specifically) have a unique agency that awards them refugee status (UNRWA) where as for every other type of ethnicity, refugee status is not passed down.
Im not even going to bother, Zionist just means Jewish people wanting their own country/homeland because historically speaking they have always lived as a minority which didn't work out well from them (at bare minimum they were persecuted, at most genocided).
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
I never said anything about Gaza alone, that's a strawman you made to my argument.
Not more ridiculous than any Jewish person being able to come to Israel. And again, I believe it would be a great symbolic gesture of ending the apartheid, I don't think that many Palestinians would want to move there anyway, 80 years is a lot of time to become accustomed to a new home.
A Jewish homeland. In a land that had single digit numbers of Jews when the movement began. And the comparison is clear when you compare their rhetoric. Not sure if links are allowed on this sub but take the quizz called Zionist or Nazi and tell me how you did.
mdedetrich@reddit
Your grasping at straws here. The point being made is Israel tried to the right thing and they got punished for it, or is your argument that Israel withdrawing from Gaza is a bad thing?
In fact thats been the entire history of Israel, they get punished, demonized, chastized for doing the right thing and for doing the wrong thing. Damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Why because you said so? I think doing this symbolic gesture would be incredibly offensive to Palestinians because its just a token gesture.
Either you accept right of return and you adhere to what it means, or you don't
Cool, lets selectively cherry pick history and entirely ignore the fact that Jews actually came from that area (just as Palestinians) and they were then kicked out by Roman catholics and afterwards Islamic empires. Fun fact, Palestine isn't even etymologically a race/ethnicity, its a word that Romans came up with designating an area free of Jews after they expelled them.
And why is it that other ethnicities are allowed a homeland, even if it involved expelling other people that lived there but Israel cannot. Why are you picking out Israel specifically about this?
Yes the current government far right nationalist, that is true but that has nothing to do with Israel being a country and having a right to exist (which UN agrees with BTW).
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
They didn't try to stop occupying Palestine. That's my point. Ukraine didn't end the war either when Russia withdrew from Kyiv region. Shocker.
What's offensive about it? Recognising the injustice they faced and giving them the same rights as Jewish people do? There can be compromises. In fact, there will have to be compromises if there's to be peace.
2000 years ago. That point is as relevant as Mussolini wanting to recreate the Roman Empire. The Nakba is still in living memory.
Irrelevant. And a point which even Putin loves to use about Ukrainians.
Are Roma allowed a homeland? No, because they're scattered everywhere. They can't get a homeland because other people would suffer as a result.
Wait, I thought Zionists love to brag about being the only democracy in the Middle East. But when it comes to the goverment, it doesn't represent the people?
mdedetrich@reddit
Yup, probably because they got punished for doing the right thing. Israel has real security guarantees, they have zero issue in fully withdrawing and returning land if a legitimate peace deal is done, and this is exactly what happened with Jordan and Egypt.
The fact that its blatantly and obviously duplicitous?
If thats your definition of living memory, would you be fine with Germans calling for right of return on the entire western strip of Poland? Or how about Ukranians with all of East Poland? This all happened at the same time.
No its actually entirely different. Ukranians are an actual ethnicity (that ironically founded modern Russia, or kiev Rus). Palestinians ethnically speaking are either Jews or Arabs from that area. Fun fact, the Palestinian Post, the first newspaper founded in that area, was created by Jews with its primary target being Jewish people
You can apply that to half the countries in the world, again why so selective about Israel?
So Germany isn't a democracy because it has the AFD party? Or America with republicans? You really need to work on your reasoning skills.
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
No, ending the occupation would be the right thing. And no, if you're illegally occupying foreign land, you don't deserve any safety.
Sure, to a logical extent. Give them the right to move there ( they already do) and perhaps a symbolic financial aid. But the Germans don't even want it and not many would take it. So it's really not the same as the Palestinian issue.
What exactly seperates a Ukrainian from a Russian? How do you determine that if it's not up to the Ukrainians/Palestinians themselves?
Such as?
Because I'm an antiaemite. Or that's atleast what you want to hear.
Did I ever say that AfD or republicans don't represent them? I'll go further, Babiš represents the Czech people because many are uneducated about politics.
mdedetrich@reddit
Except thats not what happened in reality, they were forcefully displaced. I mean Germany also lost all of Kalingrad, they can't return there at all.
How is that relevant? Even if they wanted to, it wouldn't be allowed. The whole point of the EU project is to stop prioritizing revenge and bickering about who owned what piece of land at X time and instead accept current borders.
What evidence you have of this? Again you keep on posting this subjective assessment as a fact.
No its entirely and unique a Palestinian issue, because whenever counter examples are provided (such as the ones I did, and its barely scratching the surface) then we get all of these half assed exceptions.
You can read up about it
You need to re-read what I said, because I used quite precise words. Specifically your ignoring "etymologically", I never said that Palestinians in how its used in modern day is not an ethnicity, but rather that originally the word never even described a race.
It was just meant to illustrate that both Jews and Arabs are originally of that area (which we call modern Palestine) and that the Palestinian "ethnicity" didn't even exist up until the founding of Israel because originally the word meant "area free of Jews", it had no mention of race or ethnicity at all. You can ready about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinians#Etymology
Iran, Turkey, Crimea, I mean is really really easy.
No, I am trying to get you to question why there is this hyper focus on Israel specifically existing as a country.
Not sure if you realize, but all of this "anti-colonialist"/"anti-zionist" narrative is actually, word by word, Soviet USSR propaganda that was pushed in the 60s (Russia is kind of famous for being really anti-semitic, they also hated Americans because of imperialism so they tried to group it all together). Have a read of https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/zombie-anti-zionism
To be honest, I don't even know what your point is. You seemed to be insinuating that Israel is not a democracy because of who is in power, even though they were elected democratically. Actually the Lukid party didn't even get a majority vote, but they decided to side with far right extremist parties in Israel to get a majority. There is nothing anti democratic about that specifically.
X-XIQ@reddit
109 countries but for Palestinians. Playing all the hits today I see
mdedetrich@reddit
I support a 2 state solution, including a country for Palestinians.
That also means that they need to be content with Israel existing and having a right to exist, and they also need to govern themselves and stop putting groups Hamas in power.
And they also need to drop all of this right to return, we don't have Germany going around demanding that Germans kicked out of western Poland be returned to that area as well as returning western Poland to Germany.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
Racist ghoul.
mdedetrich@reddit
Wow, I didn’t know that withdrawing from Gaza was racist. Have to add that entry to my book of the most ridiculous statements.
Elman89@reddit
This is some incredibly racist dehumanizing shit.
You can condemn terrorists like Hamas without sounding like a Nazi, you know.
mdedetrich@reddit
Well the real nazi would be the Palestinian leader in the 30s, Amin al-Husseini who literally teamed up with Hitler with a goal of wiping all Jews from the Middle East.
I’m just pointing out that the Middle East is filled with latent and fashionable anti sematism, and even though they are far more horrific events than what’s going on in Gaza going on (see Syria in 2000s or Yemen) the reason why so much attention is on Israel is simple.
It’s because they are Jews, and most countries surrounding Israel just cannot stand having Jewish majority country there. The exceptions (Jordan/Egypt) which signed a peace deal with Israel haven’t had a single battle since and also all of their land returned
Elman89@reddit
Israel is an apartheid regime. What you call peace is giving up and accepting living under an apartheid system. There can be peace, but it'll involve abolishing apartheid just as much as it'll involve dismantling Hamas.
You're just so racist against arabs you can't analyze the situation with any degree of objectivity. There's plenty of fucked up stuff in Arab states, yes, but acting like they're animals who don't care about their children's wellbeing and just want to kill Jews is simple racism and a refusal to acknowledge the political realities of the situation. There's no people that wouldn't fight back when subjected to apartheid.
mdedetrich@reddit
Have you been to Israel? Its the most ethnically diverse country aside from Lebanon or Syria which are basically failed states at this point. Its hard to argue that a country is an apartheid regime, especially given that ironically Palestinian Arab's that live in Israel happen to have more rights than those that live outside of Israel.
No, I said that they care more about revenge then peace. If they wanted peace, Palestine would have signed a legitimate peace deal with Israel just like Jordan and Egypt did decades ago. Once those peace deals were signed, Israel returned all land to those countries and all fighting ceased.
Yes the political reality is that every single opportunity that Palestine had to make peace with Israel, they refused. Even when Israel withdrew completely from Gaza in 2005, including all settlements which is what the international community was begging them to do they still didn't want peace.
Elman89@reddit
The fact that citizens and non-citizens aren't determined by strictly racial lines doesn't remove the reality that those who are non-citizens are living in Bantustans with extremely limited rights and freedom. It's apartheid. If you can't acknowledge that much it's pointless to discuss anything else.
You can literally just look up what the ICJ and many international organizations have said about this issue.
mdedetrich@reddit
So Japan is also an apartheid regime because its basically impossible to become a Japanese citizen if you don't have Japanese blood (even if you have worked, lived and fully integrated into Japan?)
Or how about Spain, where you are from, where if you can prove and trace back your Spanish heritage you get free right of return back to Spain and become a citizen for free.
Elman89@reddit
You can also look up what apartheid is. Isn't the internet amazing?
mdedetrich@reddit
Yes I have, you clearly have not.
Also maybe you should use this wonderful thing called the internet, ICJ has never claimed Israel is an apartheid state.
Elman89@reddit
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-sum-01-00-en.pdf
mdedetrich@reddit
Can you read the document you post please?
Elman89@reddit
They didn't openly call it Apartheid but they did say it violates the article that forbids Apartheid and racial segregation. You literally just said there's no racial segregation in Israel, didn't you?
You can look up the judges' individual opinions on the subject. Here's some help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_apartheid#CERD
But really... They literally have Bantustans. It's completely blatant. This is not hard.
mdedetrich@reddit
Moving the goalposts, nice. Just admit you were wrong, you said word for word that ICJ claimed that what Israel did was Apartheid.
That is entirely false
No I didn't, I said that Israel is not an Apartheid state because Palestinian Arab's that live in Israel have full rights, which is entirely different to what happened in South Africa.
Maybe you should do catch up reading instead of lecturing me on what to read, because clearly you haven't been reading any of the material you posted.
Elman89@reddit
What about Palestinians who aren't citizens? Is their situation similar to something that happened in South Africa?
mdedetrich@reddit
Selective apartheid is an oxymoron, because its no longer about segregation based purely on race.
If you read the ICJ document you posted earlier you would understand this. There is a reason why the ICJ has claimed, verbatim, that what is happening in west bank is not apartheid.
SquirtSommelier@reddit
Why not pursue peace instead?
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
Like the Palestinans in the West Bank? I wonder why...
SquirtSommelier@reddit
Respectfully, what are you talking about? When the Oslo Accords happened - the PA was in control of both Gaza and the West Bank….
Federal_Thanks7596@reddit
What exactly is going on in the West Bank where no organized resistance exists? Did Israel recognise a sovereign Palestinian state there or are they stealing more and more land with settlements?
rattleandhum@reddit
Literally every moderate faction of Palestinian resistance was wiped out or assassinated by Israel, and money funnelled to extremists like Hamas (feel free to research this on your own time) to prevent a two state solution from happening.
Rabin was assasinated for meeting with Arafat by a man who was in Netanyahu's political faction. The Israelies want Greater Israel, and it's in their interest to paint the Palestinians as savages while also treating them like dirt and giving them no means of escaping their oppression.
joecitizen79@reddit
Both sides can be accused of that.
OsgrobioPrubeta@reddit
You have a time machine to sell me? /s
Decent_Cheesecake_29@reddit
Here’s a question for you — what portion of Hamas fighters are orphans?
muteen@reddit
No country committing a genocide are civilised
blazeroman@reddit
I just can't wait for what inventive excuse the other terrorists in fancy suits gonna make when they start bombing civillians again specially the one thay is still wanted by ICJ
Bring who home?
Gonna be a financial loss with all the yellow ribbon and other merch but, gotta come up with another slogan
Ajmb_88@reddit
Crazy how the world doesn’t see Israel as a terrorist state even thought they’ve boobytrapped pagers and killed children with it. The fact western countries are considered democratic and civilized is just white washing and ignoring history. You’ve literally seen them bomb and starve children for over a year, but consider them democratic and civilized?
flossdaily@reddit
Both Hamas and Israel had obligations for phase one of the ceasefire. Both of them have met their applications.
And well you, might be worried about Israel keeping up its part of the bargain for phase 2, I promise you that the rest of the world is skeptical about Hamas doing the same.
TheJewPear@reddit
“The world” has doubts about everyone involved in this conflict. It might be you that has the problem of taking what a terrorist organization says at face value while doubting the other two parties.
860v2@reddit
If they actually “complied”, they wouldn’t have murdered hostages.
joedude@reddit
lmfao the purest of reddit takes.
No one thinks this except you chronically online children of reddit.
CricketJamSession@reddit
What a delusional clown you are
Hamas already broke the deal
Firecracker048@reddit
Not that they had much of a choice. All of their allies threatened to leave their political leadership high and dry without protection if they don't.
And it's not Israel being wishy washy right now, Hamas outright refused to the formal signing of the treaty. That's not a good sign for their end
YourFuture2000@reddit
That is not so strange, because many terrorists groups are actually very humanitarian and their terrorism is a fight to protect their people and gain dignity and freedom.
Not that that I support their terror strategies, but often, what the main stream media call terrorism is only an attack back after them being attacked.
Today we have more access to news beyond the main stream narrative.
Totoques22@reddit
In your dreams maybe
Robotgorilla@reddit
Honestly I'm surprised that enough of Hamas' command and control remains that they're able to coordinate this. They're absolutely thieves for taking materials and funds that could have benefitted the people of Gaza to build their tunnels and secure safe houses but you can't say it hasn't been effective at resisting the Israeli invasion.
12bEngie@reddit
almost like israel hasn’t really been targeting them
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
You sound like the tunnels were luxury mansions or sth. If it has been effective at resisting the invasion, doesn't it mean that they were good investments for the national liberation cause? I believe they were modeled after the vietcong and history doesn't remember them as losers or enemies of the people.
Robotgorilla@reddit
Haha of course not. And they were certainly good investments for Hamas, as they were for the VC. I guess their benefit for other Gazans depends on whether the survival of Hamas is viewed as something Israel and the USA want to overcorrect for in a future peace process.
I was certain that the scale of destruction would have at least made a release such as this very staggered, but the quick turnaround shows how well they've preserved the essential functions of command.
Like I was saying, you cannot blame Hamas for building tunnels. It was a genuinely smart decision.
ilimlidevrimci@reddit
They broke the status quo, exposed Israel, discredited the Zionist project in the long run and survived. Those are all wins, despite how heavy the toll was and my personal disapproval of hamas' background of political İslam (similar to the Islamofascist regime of Erdoğan in Turkey).
RockstepGuy@reddit
Yeah it only costed them dozens of thousands of civilian deaths, all of its political and military leadership, most of its general chain of command, its close regional allies, and if the deal goes through, also their own power, since the peace deal includes disarmament and stepping out of power as key parts.
The only real thing Hamas achieved was getting themselves a deal to be replaced by a reformed PA, wich is good for everyone except them, could had been done without the massive amount of death tho.
kolitics@reddit
The tunnels don’t start paying dividends until you provoke an invasion though.
lovely-cans@reddit
Apparently it's allowed for the government of Israel to build tunnels but Hamas who are the government but also a terrorist group aren't allowed to build tunnels even though Gaza has been bombed more than Dresden
Vedagi_@reddit
Just for a note since i havent seen anyone else mention it in the news here or comments.
You can thank Red Cross for being the middle man, and transporting the hostages as well as providing basic medical aid to them i'm sure. They aint perfect, but at least they're the only ones from there to with both sides trust enough to do this.
Mognakor@reddit
What makes them "not perfect"?
SowingSalt@reddit
Not OP, but there are some serious missalocation of funds on behalf of the leadership.
wq1119@reddit
Didn't they sell water bottles on ground zero during 9/11?
IHateUsernames111@reddit
Maybe you want to unfollow that guy. This myth has been around since 9/11 and nobody ever was able to come up with more than "Some guy told me...".
Every crazy conspiracy theory around 9/11 has more substance to it than that claim.
wq1119@reddit
Well damn, I will actually tell him this since he is a very small YT channel that always interacts with his audience, but he also accepts his mistakes so saying this will be good for the misinformation to stop spreading.... I think.
SpontaneousFlame@reddit
They watched the IDF mass murder ambulance workers and barely raised a murmur of protest. They saw the IDF repeatedly steal Palestinian ambulances to use as troop transports on missions to kill people and they raised no objections whatsoever.
They saw the IDF dress up as doctors to kill unarmed wounded fighters in hospitals and gave them a free pass because they were only killing brown people.
Niaaal@reddit
They are officially politically neutral. It's in their doctrine:
“In order to continue to enjoy the confidence of all, the Movement may not take sides in hostilities or engage at any time in controversies of a political, racial, religious or ideological nature.”
Their neutrality is essential and a solid reason why it's them that were allowed to handle the hostage exchange.
There are a lot of institutions and countries to blame for not stopping the genocide sooner. The Red Cross is not one to blame
Toomanyeastereggs@reddit
They have to stay silent. People may not like it, but that’s what they have to do so that they can do what they need to do.
If they didn’t then they’d be amongst the dead.
aykcak@reddit
It is not like the doctors and journalists who DID raise concerns survived
Mstinos@reddit
I wish thid was at the top, instead of at the bottom, below hamas apologetics.
Vedagi_@reddit
I'm just waiting for the comments blaiming Red Cross for not treating the hostages while captive and such.
DanDan1993@reddit
It's just a populist stand. If they can't get access to the hostages/prisoners/captives/whatever semantics you want; they can't force themselves. They take what they get.
I understand the hate against it but it's.. just how the red cross works. :/
Vedagi_@reddit
Oh dont ruin my fun! haha, i'm waiting here for these comments to show up just to tell them that if "Hamas wont let them access the hosatges, they cant help them" heh
Soldier-Of-Dance@reddit
I thought all the hostages will not be returned until a permanent ceasefire is guaranteed and the IDF fully retreats from Gaza. Did Hamas’ balls drop off or something?
speedyspeedys@reddit
Are you upset the hostages are back home?
Longjumping-Jello459@reddit
Bibi's account maybe??
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
I think he's some kind of weird warmonger.
muteen@reddit
Genocide apologist says what!?
Soldier-Of-Dance@reddit
Genocide or no genocide, you have to admit how amusing it is that all the anti-zionists here smugly said for the past 2 years that Hamas wouldn’t return the hostages without total capitulation by Israel… and look where we are now.
muteen@reddit
No one said that, you people are pathetic. Gloating while there was a genocide happening and still throwing shit even when you get your hostages back.
Plus let's see if the Zionists even hold up their side of the bargain, all hostages have been released. The IDF have got no reason to keep up their atrocious genocidal ways.
blancrabbiit@reddit
I'm surprised it was the Americans were the ones who were able to at least restart a hopefully lasting peace rather than Europe considering they caused this in the first place.
Vedagi_@reddit
Lmao what
blancrabbiit@reddit
Historically, It was UK's prerogative to endorse and support the transitional government into an independent Palestine. Unfortunately, conflicting promises it had made early in the First World War to the Arabs, the Jews, and France made it virtually impossible. So by the Second World War, not only had they failed to institute any stable political institutions but also worsened relations between the local Palestinian Arab and Jewish population. This was exacerbated by the anti-Jewish policies that had now been spreading throughout Europe. By war's end, the UK ultimately gave up and withdrawed from the region, letting the UN handle it.
Vedagi_@reddit
My issue is that you say "Europe"
Instead of the (two) countries with could be blamed for this situation.
I'm sure Bosnia or Croatia is to balme here as well since you said "Europe" /s or literally the damn rest of Europe which has nothing to do with this
blancrabbiit@reddit
My apologies then.
Vedagi_@reddit
It's common for people to call it just "Europe"
With is really pissing of for.. Well any Europen almost, especially since most of the time they're talking about Spain, Uk, France, Germany, and just slap "Europe" on it, with includes about half of Europe which has always nothing to do with the thing they're talking about ._.
Or if i say i'm European, sometimes same story ._. "but i come from country with has nothing to do with this, being European doesnt mean, FR,UK,GER,SP only"
Thanks..
blancrabbiit@reddit
Noted, and apologies again. You guys have it just as rough, huh?
Vedagi_@reddit
Something like when tourists says they were in "South China Sea"
blancrabbiit@reddit
Yeah, I really get what you mean by that now. Sorry.
Wiinterfang@reddit
Britain owned that land, they were the ones that sold to the Jews. When they started fighting, Britain just left, instead of protecting the current people living there.
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
It sucks that the same deal could have been achieved during the 2nd phase of the ceasefire back in March, but the war criminals in telaviv unilaterally withdrew from it *with Trump's blessings* to pursue another sleazy attempt at ethnically cleansing gaza, wiping out thousands of families in the process.
And now Trump is getting all the praise for essentially telling them, enough, take the deal, you can't fight the whole world. (after they attacked his Gulf partners.)
Redditthedog@reddit
Hamas agreed to let Israel have a 53% Buffer Zone in March?
PerforatedPie@reddit
Yes but back in March Trump was busy fiddling the stock market. Now, he needs a positive distraction to the civil war he's waging and to cover the fact that he fiddled kids with Epstein.
vlntly_peaceful@reddit
And for his still ongoing market manipulation.
PerforatedPie@reddit
He used to manipulate the stock market. He still does, but he used to as well.
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
I always say Epstein is the distraction. :P
DalmationStallion@reddit
💯
718Brooklyn@reddit
Was Hamas agreeing to disarm and be removed during that deal?
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
The exact same deal: All captives for a number of prisoners was the deal being discussed in phase 2 of the last ceasefire. Those could have been months, even maybe 2 years ago. And thousands would have been alive. No one is talking about disarming at the moment in this exchange, and from the looks of it, they'll never willingly accept disarming, and the ITF will likely permanently stay behind the yellow line.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
"In 2024: (1) Hamas never agreed to release all the remaining hostages at one time; (2) Never agreed to a continuing Israeli presence in Gaza; (3) Demanded a lot more terrorists be released from Israeli prisons than is currently on offer; 2/ (4) did not agree to disarm; (5) did not agree to an international force gradually taking over from Israel. (4) is especially crucial. Without disarming, any truce/ceasefire would be temporary until Hamas could retake military control of Gaza."
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
We'd never know because they skipped phase2 / any negotiation, assassinated the negotiators, sabotaged any peace talks and openly claimed that they'd resume destruction after phase 1 is complete to pursue the "riviera" project. It's all well documented. Don't alter history.
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
So you admit you lied when you said it's not the exact same deal.
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
The exchange part (the part so far and likely the only part that will be implemented) is the same.
ididnotsee1@reddit
Bro you lied out of your ass. I'm just trying to figure out if youre perpetuating misinformation or disinformation. Whatever else you say can be disregarded. Embarassing shit bud
Metum_Chaos@reddit
He didn’t lie though? He said the same deal could’ve been achieved.
ididnotsee1@reddit
What does 'could've' even mean? Does he have evidence that hamas was willing to accept all the conditions in this new deal? Hope he does because otherwise 'could've' is a meaningless word.
Metum_Chaos@reddit
Evidence being the Hamas negotiators that went to Qatar and were immediately killed, violating international laws
Evidence being that people who worked with Netanyahu complained that a deal could’ve been worked out sooner, but he dragged on the war longer to protect his corrupt ass.
Evidence being the similar deal worked before that Israel violated.
Could’ve, meaning that something like this current deal could’ve been done already, and we all know that to be true
ididnotsee1@reddit
A lot of hand waving but specific evidence that hamas was willing to lay down arms and other terms of the deal the current deal? Cite sources please
Metum_Chaos@reddit
I’m not sure what you’re asking then. Are you saying about Hamas willing to lay down arms? https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
If you mean a previous ceasefire deal in which Hamas was willing to lay down arms, then no, I can’t find one. I was pointing out how Israel could’ve gotten its POWs much sooner
ididnotsee1@reddit
Thank you for the source. On the face it looks legitimate but,
Thats a tall ask, and is never going to happen. This was never echoed in actual negotiations tho. Either way they came around. This is what happens when you start a war and you lose.
So it's not the same deal? Like at all? Theres no evidence they could have achieved the same deal today.
Metum_Chaos@reddit
Well, do note that a Genocide and massacres does not count as a war. Unless you count what the Nazis did to Jews as a war. Or more allegorically, to anarchists and communists.
But I can’t find a deal of Hamas laying down its weapons before. They refused for good reasons, chiefly being it would make Palestinians sitting ducks, the other as we see now where rival factions would tear each other apart (like in Syria).
ididnotsee1@reddit
So now you finally agree that there was no previous deal with the same terms as it was never going to happen, until now! That's exactly why 'could've' is a straight up lie. We can finally put this to bed!
Metum_Chaos@reddit
No? He said the exchange part was the same. This is what I’ve been repeatedly stating. Are you saying it’s not?
ididnotsee1@reddit
I think youre very confused. The original comments claim that they could have had the very same deal in march as they did now. A very close fact check concludes that they could not have had the same deal. That claim is debunked. Please go re read the previous comments. If you cant ill help you.
It sucks that the same deal could have been achieved during the 2nd phase of the ceasefire back in March
This has been debunked. Hope that helps!
Metum_Chaos@reddit
No, that doesn’t help. What exactly was different about the March deal than this one? He said the exchange part was the same, was it not?
ididnotsee1@reddit
Are you joking? Whats different? I just told you whats different. Its not the same deal. Its been debunked already buddy
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
So it's the exact same deal except all the parts that aren't exactly the same.
pjjmd@reddit
It's the exact same deal, except all the parts that were never intended to be implemented, negotiated, or agreed to, yes.
Hamas has not agreed to disarm, nor have they agreed to Israel's continued military presence in Gaza.
ididnotsee1@reddit
Bro you lied out of your ass. I'm just trying to figure out if youre perpetuating misinformation or disinformation. Whatever else you say can be disregarded. Embarassing shit bud
718Brooklyn@reddit
Hopefully Hamas will keep their end of the deal. For today, let’s celebrate a significant victory for those who want peace.
margotsaidso@reddit
They aren't agreeing to that now apparently.
HockeyHocki@reddit
Which is why it's still only a ceasefire
Totoques22@reddit
Damn almost like the problem was Hamas all along
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
Hamas are the product of the same barbarism and oppression against the poor Palestinian people for nearly a century. Not the other way around.
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
By that logic, the IDF was the product of the Arab barbarism and oppression against the poor Jews for nearly a century. Try again
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
From Germany 🤣 - how ironic. You're confusing arabs with Nazis..
SowingSalt@reddit
Seeing how Arab leadership was very cozy with the Nazis in the 30s and 40s...
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
From Canada 🤣 - how ironic. You're confusing basic logic with maple syrup or what ever led to this level of stupidity
4edgy8me@reddit
If my grandmother had wheels she would have been a bike
FlagerantFragerant@reddit
No she wouldn't, she'd still be your grandma. Maybe don't steal stuff from a morning show and pawn it off as logic 😂
Klytus_Ra_Djaaran@reddit
I just feel badly for any Palestinians in the West Bank. Anyone who ever paid attention to the Israeli War to Colonize Palestine for the last 40 years knows what Israel will unleash next.
pjjmd@reddit
Israel flooded arms to citizen militias in the occupied west bank months ago. Settler violence has increased, with pogroms and murders a regular occurrence. Israel has not been waiting, they've been pursuing both projects simultaneously.
860v2@reddit
Sounds like committing and supporting the October 7th attack was a massive mistake.
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
It was definitely a moronic gift on a silver plate to your genocidal fanatic leaders.
Firecracker048@reddit
It's literally not the same deal though. Hamas refused any deal that diminished their power in any way, which is why these talks never got beyond an initial exchange before.
When you start a war, and end up on the losing side, you really get no ground to stand on. The biggest difference here is the Arab nations told Hamas that they say yes, or all of their leadership outside of Gaza is fair game and they won't provide any diplomatic protection anymore.
All it took was someone finally to put pressure on Hamas to agree to something they didn't like. Anthony Blinken said it last year, that the lack of pressure on Hamas was dumbfounding.
ianmerry@reddit
Lmfao you think this started two years ago?
gonna-see-riverman@reddit
The deal was never negotiated. because: (copy/pasting) they unilaterally skipped phase2 / any negotiation, assassinated the negotiators, sabotaged any peace talks and openly claimed that they'd resume destruction after phase 1 is complete to pursue the "riviera" project. It's all well documented.
But the exchange part (the part so far and likely the only part that will be implemented) has always been the same.
pinkycatcher@reddit
You’re spreading disinformation either knowingly or unknowingly
McAlpineFusiliers@reddit
It's not the same deal. Why do all the Qatari propagandists keep lying about this?
aDrThatsNotBaizhu@reddit
I'm glad the hostages are back to their family and loved ones, hopefully they release all the Palestinian hostages held for years without trial as well
Although I'm not confident this ceasefire will last very long, warmonger netanyahu will find a reason to attack Gaza again because it was never about the hostages for him
jcooli09@reddit
It will happen again unless Israel kills all Palestinians or finds a solution which respects their human rights.
I predict the issues will continue. I don't know how many have survived, and I suspect that the right's bloodlust has not been sated. They'll find another excuse for mass murder.
Sari_sendika_siken@reddit
Naive of you to asume they will stop with palestinians. They are threas for whole middle east.
teo_vas@reddit
if they are threat then why Arab governments sided with Israel against Hamas?
Sari_sendika_siken@reddit
Like Syria and Lebanon? Ofcourse israel is know to be extreamly stable neighbour that never atacks nobody.
teo_vas@reddit
no like the declaration of the Arab League unanimously condemning Hamas for October 7th.
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
I don't understand why you think people who view Israel as a threat are somehow not allowed to condemn Hamas.
teo_vas@reddit
whos says that those countries see Israel as a threat anymore?
NoHandBananaNo@reddit
So that wasn't the point you were making?
RockstepGuy@reddit
Lebanon and Syria do not recognize Israel's existence, and in any case, the Lebanese government is actually "helping" Israel by trying to stick a plan to disarm Hezbollah.
jefraldo@reddit
Stop using the language of genocide. If Palestinians in Israeli jails are prisoners, then so are Israelis held by Hamas. “Hostages” is defamatory and used for a calculated purpose—-same thing as calling them “tunnels” instead of “bomb shelters”.
onepareil@reddit
I’m glad they’re safe, but I’m really disappointed Israel didn’t agree to release Dr. Hussam Abu Safiya or Dr. Marwan al-Hams as part of the exchange deal. At this point, one has to assume they’re either dead or they’ve been so obviously tortured they won’t released until the heat dies down a bit and the chance of worsening international outrage is less.
age2bestogame@reddit
Who are those?
onepareil@reddit
Two prominent Palestinian doctors Israel has been holding in detention without charges or trial. Dr. Abu Safiya has been detained for almost a year now, and no one has been able to contact him or even find out where he’s being held for months now. Dr. al-Hams was detained back in June 2025, so more recently.
The IDF has detained hundreds of healthcare workers in Gaza over the past 2 years, but it’s hard to find exact numbers on how many are still currently detained and how many were released as part of the ceasefire deal. However, the release of these two doctors was specifically requested and denied by the Israeli authorities.
age2bestogame@reddit
Thanks
clappyclapo@reddit
Nice, when are the other side hostages being released?
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