I have a plan to deal with parcel thief, will this work and will i be able to press charges? (UK)
Posted by Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 123 comments
So I have had multiple parcels stolen over the last couple of months. I'm tired of it at this point, it's mostly kids stuff and random bits, not like its anything particularly valuable. I live in a flat building on the first floor and delivery drivers just drop the parcels in the ground floor communal area.
I've now bought a camera to record the theft, plan to leave a parcel out as bait so its all in shot of the camera (i dont really have much choice but to leave the package myself as its the only way I'll be able to get it all in shot).
I plan to get recordings of a few thefts to prove a trend, then take the evidence to the police, will this be enough to get charges brought against the thief? Is there anything else I should do (or shouldnt do)?
Final thing to clarify, I have complained numerous times to both retailers and couriers that if parcels get left downstairs they will probably get stolen, I have tried to deal with this other ways before resulting to what could be considered entrapment. Any advice and opinions will be appreciated.
fussyfella@reddit
I doubt the police will do much sadly, but you could try shaming them by sharing the story with the local TV station.
Also if you have evidence of who stole it, you can issue a civil proceeding to reclaim the money (plus costs). The standard of proof for a civil claim is just balance of probabilities so if your evidence is as strong as it sounds you likely would win. Of course if it is the typical unemployed scrote you may have trouble actually getting the money off them if they have no assets.
YoungGazz@reddit
No, this is not the US.
Charges are decided by the police if there's suitable evidence to present to the CPS.
squigs@reddit
You can't press charges in the US either. It's essentially the same system except they have a DA rather than the CPS.
I believe there is some sort of mechanism to press charges ion the UK with a private prosecution. No idea how that works in practice.
Birdman_of_Upminster@reddit
I've seen police body-worn camera videos from the US where the officer has asked a theft victim whether they just want the goods back, or whether they want the perpetrator charged. I've no idea if they can insist on someone being charged, but it seems that they can sometimes opt not to press charges.
squigs@reddit
When the police ask if the victim wants to press charges, it's really shorthand for saying "If we arrest this person and ask the DA to press charges, will you cooperate to get a conviction, and is this something you want to happen". They can press charges whether the victim wants to or not.
I think they ask in the case of less serious crimes.
Jeremys_Iron_@reddit
You pay a fortune to do it privately.
IdioticMutterings@reddit
I believe the price of a private prosecution in the UK, STARTS at £10,000 and rapidly climbs through the stratosphere.
Drummk@reddit
And if they can be bothered.
Nutty-Frangipane@reddit
You cannot 'press charges'.
It is for the CPS to decide who to prosecute based on available evidence. Your input plays absolutely no role in who the Police go after.
Hell, even the Police don't get to decide who they prosecute. If CPS don't feel like there is enough for a charge, they won't.
luckeratron@reddit
If that doesn't work then if the person lives in your block of flats then pass your recording onto the landlord they might kick them out.
Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit (OP)
This was my plan too. However after reading this thread I'm now concerned about getting evicted for illegally recording if I do that.
DoubleParadox@reddit
Could you ask your landlord for CCTV if they have it? If not, then you have more grounds for using your own personal recording device and could ask for permission.
Alternative is using a tracking device but you'd need one you can locate with your phone, maybe a bluetooth one?
Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit (OP)
No cctv in the building unfortunately. I'm also not sure how well a tracker would work indoors, also with flats on top of each other could they track elevation?
DoubleParadox@reddit
Something like this may work although the reviews are mixed:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tack-GPS-Plus-Monthly-Battery/dp/B093ZP6D9S
benjog88@reddit
get one that has an alarm too so you can stand outside the suspected apartment and set the alarm off
jibbetygibbet@reddit
Illegal how? You’re not putting it inside their flat, it’s in a lobby with public access. People hate landlords and seek to just blindly assume they will all act unreasonably by default but I see absolutely no reason why they would evict you for this. They might not want you to leave it up permanently (especially without a sign) and to be honest I doubt they would go to the effort of evicting someone when they themselves haven’t lost anything, but I can’t see them evicting you just for thisz
Kaiisim@reddit
No such thing as entrapment for normal citizens.
A video of their face will generally work.
Ignore anyone saying police won't do anything - if you don't contact them they definitely won't do anything.
But also an item isn't delivered until it's put into your hands.
Friskystarling0@reddit
I’m a postman so am aware that the contract is between the sender and the courier until it has been delivered. If it is stolen before the OP has it physically in his possession does the sender become the victim?
RodneyRodnesson@reddit
I've got two personal incidents of the Police doing fuck all when they've been contacted; one included clear face photographs and the vehicle involved — both went nowhere after very little Police interaction.
Other family members have more. It's only anecdotal but there seems an awful lot of it and combined with my own experiences I've very little confidence that much would be done for OP.
I agree he should contact the Police though, hopefully he's pleasantly surprised.
Intelligent-Day-6976@reddit
If nothing is done next time knock the living shit out of the thief in court show evedence of you report to police and them denying to do any thing and you were left with no choice
AE_Phoenix@reddit
Exactly this. A crime number is pretty important if OP knows who the person is and can take them to court over the thefts.
Additional-Guard-211@reddit
Or the recipient’s identified place of safety
aid68571@reddit
Thanks for the warning, gonna get a free camera to go with all the parcels 😀
themadguru@reddit
Have you not got any idea who it is that is stealing your stuff?
Just have a word.
Alternatively out a bit through everyone's door saying that someone's is stealing packages and warning others in case it happened to them.
That way everyone in the building will be on the lookout.
Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit (OP)
Pretty sure I know who it is, tried having a word to be ignored whenever I knock on.
shorterbusruss@reddit
Well.. Another way to go about it without getting in trouble with the landlord is to print out a high def photo of the theft with the person's face clear on a flyer with the subtext "Do you know this person? They are regularly stealing packages from this lobby. If you see this person with a package, please call police @ xxxxxxx." (Nobody will, most likely... But you might just get lucky and have multiple people annoying the police enough, that they take action. You might have a couple of busy bodies in your building. Exploit that.)
And make sure you do as others have said, and make one of the packages a glitter bomb. Bonus points if you manage to get them in two frames, before/after getting hit with the glitter bomb, and put both on the flyer. You can also mention in your flyer that thief may be covered in glitter. So everybody who sees the flyer is gonna know EXACTLY who is stealing the packages, a d is more likely to grab your package and secure it for you if that person is anywhere around. Or just in general.
OR.. Once you identify who the thief is... Ask every...single...other.... person in the building to secure any packages left in the lobby, right after you show them the photo of the person... But play dumb about not knowing who the person is.
Now.. your neighbor would have to be pretty bold to continue stealing after both getting hit with a glitter bomb, AND having their picture posted up in the common area. And having every single other person in the building aware of who they are, and what they have been doing.
Don't put your number or name on the flyer if you post it in the lobby, so it cannot be tied back to you.
Keep in mind... The thief after the first time, will likely look at the camera angle and see where the camera is. So either move it, or make sure it is high enough that they cannot get to it without a tall ladder.
This is how I would handle it. Then again, I am WILDLY passive aggressive with this sort of sh*t, and I want the response to be wildly disproportionate to the offense without getting myself in legal trouble, and for the offender to have long term social consequences. Plus, there is a bit of social manipulation here, of recruiting other people to your cause, even if they don't realize that.
Violet351@reddit
Pressing charges isn’t a thing. It’s just a tv trope not actually real. The police will probably just give you a crime reference number unless it’s a massive problem in your area they won’t investigate
OutrageousCourse4172@reddit
There is no such thing as “press charges” in the UK. You can report something to the police and provide evidence though.
KhaosHiDef@reddit
Probably an annoying option but a PO box couldn't hurt if your local shop .etc will take it for you
Odd-Paint3883@reddit
I have a neighbor who has a similar problem, her parcels get stolen quite a bit and she leaves notes on doors stating as such, she also leaves notes on the inside of the security door stating "leave door open I'm expecting a delivery" which is then seen by every delivery driver, deliveroo guy, just eats guy in the city, who then likely tells all their mates... hey, there's an apartment block with its door open expecting a delivery...
It's a fuckin security door! its entire purpose is to be secure!!, otherwise it's called an "invitation" and puts all the apartments at risk of being broken into.
we can but hope you're not that person, otherwise you'd be the one aiding and abetting the theft.
BellamyRFC54@reddit
We don’t press charges in the uk
That’s up to the CPS
AltforStrongOpinions@reddit
I'd be amazed - legitmately dumbfounded - if the police did anything at all other than give you a crime number.
luckeratron@reddit
Can you not insist you want to press charges? Or try for a civil case by getting a lawyer.
chilliconkanye_@reddit
Pressing charges isn’t a thing in the UK. The police decide if a crime is worth investigating/taking further
The_Blip@reddit
It isn't really a thing in the US as well. It's down to the relevant public prosecution department to persue charges against someone. It's only a matter of whether or not they are likely to get a conviction and whether it serves the public interest.
richard0cs@reddit
"Pressing charges" is not a thing in the UK. You are free to take it to civil court though.
jamscrying@reddit
A private criminal prosecution is possible, this is what RSPCA and TV licensing do.
richard0cs@reddit
I mean technically yes, but it is not remotely practical or sensible in this case.
AltforStrongOpinions@reddit
They don't care; you get your number and then they close the case, without investigating.
luckeratron@reddit
That's shocking really.
Shriven@reddit
No, and no
Shriven@reddit
Why? That's an easy win right there. Are you saying this because that's what you're seeing other people say?
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
My cousin had his brand new Yamaha R1 stolen with CCTV footage of the whole thing, the police did fuck all about it. Absolutely nothing. He was given a crime number and insurance paid out. He never heard from the police again.
Shriven@reddit
Just because the crime happens on camera doesnt mean the peoples faces are visible, or that they are known
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
Two cameras caught their faces. We found out who they were ourselves about 8 weeks after the incident, matched one of their Facebook profiles. The police were notified, they still did nothing.
One of them was a local drug dealer, the bike was found in bits in a drug raid in Liverpool about 6 months later (so obviously somebody he was getting his drugs from). Still nothing happened.
Because nothing happened, the guy that was found on Facebook, we found out where he lived and we dealt with it ourselves.
Shriven@reddit
Oooh it was almost believable until your little hard man act at the end.
Good try daily Mail outrage bot
CrazyMike419@reddit
My old workmate had his motorbike stolen. The theives recorded the theft and them destroying the bike and posted it on youtube. On the channel, they had videos of themsleves stealing cars even a boat.
All clearly identifyable.
They were all let off. The vids were at least deleted.
No-Suggestion-2402@reddit
It's not an easy win if they need to investigate. They want open and shut cases that they can forward to prosecution.
Human-Call@reddit
My brother had his car stolen and someone filmed it from a window of the street it was parked on and the police still were not interested in investigating in the slightest.
UniqueLady001@reddit
Did it show a clear image of the suspects face? If not, it cannot go to court.
No-Suggestion-2402@reddit
It's not about going to court. It's about being enough for police to start an investigation and do their job, which includes finding that evidence.
The problem here is that with property crimes, police will not accept anything but open and shut cases which they can pretty much forward to prosecution.
Shriven@reddit
Ok, and did it show an image of the suspects face?
RodneyRodnesson@reddit
We had photos of the guys stealing a catalytic converter, including the vehicle they were in, "not pursued due to lack of evidence".
That and a few other incidents leave me with a very low level of belief that they would do anything.
MintyMarlfox@reddit
I had someone steal my doorbell the other week. It recorded them in 4k footage. The person is well known for stealing from local shops.
The police took the footage a week after the theft, ran it through their database, apparently had no matches so they closed the case. Within posting it on a local FB page I had the persons name.
They don’t always take the easy wins.
Shriven@reddit
Ok, so what have you done with that info?
MintyMarlfox@reddit
Gave it to the police. Who still claim they don’t have enough evidence despite having a name and footage of the theft happening.
CobblerSmall1891@reddit
Because the police on UK is laughably incompetent and not interested.
Mr06506@reddit
Only if the offender is for some reason holding their driving license or something super identifiable will they bother is my guess.
Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit (OP)
I suspect the thief is a resident, pretty sure i know who it is, so the video would show them entering their own property.
lonefox22@reddit
Start getting your packages delivered to one of those lockers that seems to be cropping up everywhere. Might be a bit of an effort but at least your goods will be safe.
EastEven5980@reddit
Print out a clear still image of the thief’s face and stick it on their flat door and the building front door.
rev-fr-john@reddit
Yes a time stamp will be required, as will a sign saying "cctv is used in this area for the prevention of crime" and you need to assume they'll be wearing a hood and possibly face coverings, this bit will render your recordings irrelevant.
No-Suggestion-2402@reddit
Just ask them to be delivered to your place of work.
Police will not investigate this, especially when you're saying these are not expensive items.
Reasonable-Health178@reddit
I'd find out what the rules are for recording in a public place first. Putting a private camera up in a communal area could get you into trouble and make any evidence you gather inadmissable.
SomeHSomeE@reddit
Video evidence captured in violation of data privacy laws or otherwise unlawfully doesn't inherently make it inadmissible. English system doesn't have a 'fruit from the poisoned tree' concept for admitting evidence like the US (Scotland is slightly different).
Not necessarily saying OP's approach is a good one or will work but this aspect doesn't necessarily affect it.
Reasonable-Health178@reddit
Cheers. I wasn't sure as I'd been given conflicting info in the past from the police. I did something similar to catch someone slahing tyres when my car was parked on the street. Got told they couldn't use it as evidence as I'd recorded a public place without permission.
I know a street is different from a communal area, but thought same rules may apply.
JustAnth3rUser@reddit
That's bullshit.... you can film whatever and whoever you like in a public place they can't claim any right to privacy in a public place.
Aprilprinces@reddit
A bit more complicated - if you film in the street, random people got caught in the recording cannot complain, but you're not allowed to follow a random person and video record them without their permission
JustAnth3rUser@reddit
Yeah, i think ( correct me if im wrong ) it becomes harrasment if you're deliberately following someone with the sole intention of filming them against their will.
Aprilprinces@reddit
Exactly - it's a new law (I think introduced last year, mostly because some creeps followed women and recorded them; but obviously the law applies to everyone) And it makes perfect sense for me
Reasonable-Health178@reddit
That's what I said! But the police said that it wasn't something I could do. But another officer a year later said it was fine. I think the coppers were just lazy and didn't want to deal to be honest.
Justboy__@reddit
I’m fairly sure you can film in public, otherwise they’d need to get permission from every single person in the country whenever they want to film a news segment in the street.
wolfdukex@reddit
You'd be surprised how many police officers don't know the law they're supposed to uphold.
scouse_git@reddit
And yet police supposedly ask for Ring doorbell footage?
Reasonable-Health178@reddit
I know it's crazy how they pick and choose what they can use.
I got assaulted a year back, caught the whole thing on Dashcam (road rage incident) and the police turned round and said that because there were no witnesses to back up the camera footage, they couldn't use it.
barejokez@reddit
Given the amount of times a ring doorbell has been used as evidence of stuff happening in the street, I reckon you got fobbed off by a lazy copper.
Wipedout89@reddit
Filming in public places is fully legal. There's no requirement to obtain permission to film in public places
Hunt_9077@reddit
In this day and age, releasing video on social media will be more effective than cops. 😑🤷🏻♂️
theabominablewonder@reddit
You'd be better to send a 'very expensive laptop' to yourself, and then when its nicked, take the culprit to the small claims courts for the £2k cost to replace it. You'll need a convincing reason why you sent an expensive laptop to yourself, but otherwise you have proof of postage and tracking and the culprit then stealing said parcel.
AltforStrongOpinions@reddit
This is such an astonishingly bad idea I'm almost impressed.
theabominablewonder@reddit
It's got a few downsides, I'll admit.
platebandit@reddit
If you find out their identity and have footage? Yes absolutely the police will take action. The police knew who it was and promptly arrested them and gave them a year in the nick and for a relatively low value theft. The operator on the phone told me she was fucking sick of them as she gets her parcels nicked and all being police. Some local dipshit that the community officer recognised
tradegreek@reddit
You can always private prosecute I’m sure if you get the evidence and set up a go fund me or something similar people would help out if the police do nothing
Key_Illustrator_9077@reddit
I'd skip the foreplay tbh, stick the parcels out and wait around the corner.
Realistic-River-1941@reddit
Glitter? That really smelly fruit?
Key_Illustrator_9077@reddit
Not quite!
deadgoodundies@reddit
The police won't do anything i'm afraid.
But i'd still put the camera up (not saying you should but I would) to see if it's the same person stealing all the time.
Then it's time to plot revenge and I would recommend either making a glitter bomb parcel or you can order it online and get it sent to yourself (just remember that you've got it coming by misspelling the name for the shipping label so you can identify it) and then leave it in the communal area.
Dont-settle-for-him@reddit
If i was the type to steal parcels, I'd probably nick the camera too..
Justboy__@reddit
I’m assuming the cameras hidden in this scenario, or it’s a really bold thief.
Rugbylady1982@reddit
The public don't answer can't press charges in the UK, that's an American saying, any charges brought are entirely the decision of the CPS and the police who will not action anything from you as the parcel is the property of the sender until received by you. Entrapment is not possible by a member of the public. Anything that gets stolen with regards to deliveries and you go back to the sender.
tehdeadmonkey@reddit
Easy charge if you can record somebody stealing your stuff...
Justboy__@reddit
They might get round to watching the tape sometime in 2036. You never know.
Accomplished_Fan_487@reddit
Put the camera up, wait for it to be stolen, get the person's license plate or other identifiable information and proceed. In the mean time, insist delivery drivers from RM, Evri, Amazon etc put your parcels in front of your door. Particularly RM and Amazon often have no issue doing that.
always-tired-38@reddit
Step 1 buy a fishing licence and some basic fishing gear Step 2 legitimately go fishing Step 3 mistakenly put a box of maggots that might have already turned into flys in your hallway Step 4 try not to laugh when a neighbour complains of flys, then you can admit it was your package for your new hobby Step 5 see how many packages go missing after
SnooCauliflowers6739@reddit
That's not what entrapment is. Entrapment requires you actively suggesting or encouraging a crime.
odx0r@reddit
Hahahaha. So, part of my job involves launching new buildings. We launched a Skyscraper back in 2020. 17 concierge staff, 1 live-in estate manager. In 2022 A just-eat driver stole a parcel for the estate manager in broad daylight. We gave the whole pile of information: CCTV, door access logs and still photos, the mobile number for the thief, the restaurant he worked for, their licence plate, all over to the police. They said they couldn't do anything.
Just do what the rest of the sub recommends. Glitter bomb them or something. The police were not staffed enough, or not instructed, to help the common man experiencing parcel theft. You could give them a literal slam dunk of a case and they'll do fuckall.
SignNotInUse@reddit
I'm not suggesting vigilante justice but the only thing that stopped repeated parcel theft in my building was one of the more interesting neighbours chasing the parcel thief down the drive with a plank of wood while wearing nothing but his underwear.
earlgreytoday@reddit
Do you not have CCTV inside the building? In my block of flats we had a resident (and their mates) stealing parcels/anything left the postboxes for about six months until they were evicted. All the thefts were captured by CCTV on the ground floor, so eventually we had a mountain of evidence to get them prosecuted and removed. Maybe you can contact the management company and request the CCTV from them.
It might also be worth raising the issue on the residents WhatsApp/Facebook group if you have one. Maybe also providing delivery instructions for everything to be delivered to your doorstep will help as well.
elfrontobumokisso@reddit
Get a glitter/stink bomb package and get it delivered then wait
Rossco1874@reddit
You could leave a parcel of rotting fruit or veg then when the thief steals it they are going to need to deal with the smell.
mcnutty96@reddit
There’s a guy on YouTube who made a glitter/fart bomb could try that
lucasadtr@reddit
Mark rober
I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit
A self-releasing bag of fox piss
Delicious_Shop9037@reddit
Parcels are the responsibility of the retailer until they are handed over to you, or left somewhere you have explicitly said is a safe space. If you haven’t designated the lobby as a safe space, then parcels stolen from there haven’t been stolen from you, they’ve been stolen from the retailer and it’s upto them to refund you and report to the police etch
Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit (OP)
Yeah ive been getting refunds, at this point its more about the principle and inconvenience they're causing
SomeHSomeE@reddit
So in effect installing a video camera recording in the way you describe will likely require authorisation from the property owners/managers, and if authorised will make you a data controller. This will require you to show sufficient signage that video recording is in effect as well as follow data privacy laws in terns if how you store and handle the data.
While doing it 'unauthorised' won't necessarily make the evidence inadmissible (England doesn't have a strict 'fruit from the poisoned tree' rule), it may put you in a tricky legal position as well as make the police more cautious about pursuing it. There may also be other aspects to do with integrity of the video capture, custody of footage (and risk of editing etc) that make it more difficult for it be relied upon as evidence. And anyway the police who are remarkably stretched may decide it's not a serious enough issue to put resource into investigating.
Agitated-Lemon4000@reddit (OP)
Okay, what if I change my plan to having the camera inside of the package itself? Record myself putting the camera inside the package, leave it then record them opening it? It might not capture them actually taking the package however it'll show a package addressed to me and then the person who took it opening it, its illegal to open someone elses mail right? At this point it seems like legal recourse is a no go but I could atleast give the evidence to the landlord for eviction.
TellMeManyStories@reddit
Just put a voiceover with religious stuff on it and post on twitter and the police will act.
FantasticMrPox@reddit
Private individuals don't have data controller status under gdpr.
Advanced_Volume_4500@reddit
Personal opinion: Police won't do anything about it. There are much more serious crimes being commited, and they can't resolve these, let alone go deal with a parcel thief.
People literally walk out for grocesry stores full of alchohol and steaks and no one cares.
quite_acceptable_man@reddit
Serious crimes like somebody upsetting somebody else on social media.
TellMeManyStories@reddit
If you can give the name and address of the thief, video (showing a face) of the parcel being taken on more than one occasion and photographic evidence of the address label showing parcel was not for that person, then the police will likely act.
Anything less and they won't have enough evidence for a prosecution.
Particular-Quit-630@reddit
My car got broken into on Xmas day one year and there at least 15-20 other break ins around the surrounding streets that week.
My car was parked in front of a pub and the landlord told me he had a good image of the culprit.
I told this to the police who said they were aware of multiple break ins. They asked if I could go to the pub and get a copy of the footage to send to them.
I had Covid had the time and was isolating, and not actually allowed to leave the house. I asked if the police could possibly go to the pub, sadly they didn’t have time.
Hopefully you have better luck!
CreativeAdeptness477@reddit
It won't work because the police won't do anything. Parcel theft is legal now.
Kwayzar9111@reddit
video of face - then shame on local facebook groups... fk em
404Notfound-@reddit
I'd order one of those glitter bomb things instead. Leave it outside and wait for the bastard to take it and open the it. He'll stop taking yours I reckon
Etheria_system@reddit
There’s no such thing as “press charges” in the uk
HashDefTrueFalse@reddit
Waste of time and effort.
If you're going to put a camera up that's fine (as long as you do what's necessary to ok it with whomever you need to) but the rest is unnecessary. Your problem is not the thieves here (as silly as it sounds) but lack of a place to leave parcels that is less attractive to thieves. I'd be taking this up with the building management (or other residents if self-managed etc.) and trying to make positive change e.g getting some lockers. In the meantime I'd be ordering my parcels to be delivered to local lockers or a shop or somewhere I pass regularly, or a friend/relative who I see often. If you work in an office it's very common for people to have parcels delivered to the building (sometimes so common it gets banned :D).
Prosecuting with a specific thief does not stop the next one.
Also, I've experienced the police decide not to prosecute enough crime to know almost for certain that your CCTV footage won't be enough, and it wouldn't be enough if one of the thieves cut themselves and left blood all over the communal space as evidence either (don't ask), so this is all totally pointless except as a (weak) deterrent. In the grand scheme of things the police care about and have resource for, this is nothing.
AubergineParm@reddit
No. You watch too much American TV. We don’t “press charges” here.
_methuselah_@reddit
Rotting fruit/dog or human poop/fleas/bed bugs…
Western_Sort501@reddit
You need to watch the Mark Rober glitterbomb videos on YouTube he got fed up of his parcels being stolen so he made various glitter bombs that covered the thief and car in glitter, one had fart spray too.
Less_Mess_5803@reddit
Get a plastic postage bag, something you can seal well. Go to the local park and find one of our canine friends deposits. Put some material around deposit but not too tightly and slide it into the packaging to resemble clothes. Seal well. Leave out for thief.
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