Why does EV only start to become relevant in recent years?
Posted by Error_Space@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 79 comments
Personally I don's remember seeing a lot of manufactures focus on EVs before Elon bring up the Tesla models. BMW did try their luck with I8 which as far as I can see was a big flop. So what changed? why all of sudden every car manufacturers seems to losing their mind over EVs? The technology seem to be booming in this field recently so it wasn't some sort of technology barrier, why didn't they done it sooner?
CompetitiveLake3358@reddit
Interest is actually waning. Most of it actually comes from governments forcing it. Many EVs only exist due to California requirements, for example. Giving us many terrible compliance cars like the Ford Focus EV
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
There are good inexpensive EVs. China makes them, and we refuse to allow them to be imported. It is really criminal this protectionism. BYD would put Tesla out of business in a week if they were unencumbered.
FLOHTX@reddit
Thats exactly why they aren't allowed. It would put US manufacturers out of business, which would be terrible for our economy. Millions of jobs depend on American vehicle manufacturing.
BYD would not open an assembly plant in the US, our labor is too expensive.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
What economy? The economy is toast and protecting the wealth of DOGE boy isn't high on my list of priorities.
FLOHTX@reddit
I'm in automotive, making custom packaging for suppliers and the OEMs themselves to transport things like radios, bumpers, etc from the supplier to assembly. I work with companies like Panasonic, Denso, many others. Just packaging is a multi-billion dollar industry in the US. Tons of jobs rely on keeping manufacturing in the US. To think otherwise is naive.
I'm a liberal, but understand the need for government guidance and control on industry. Republicans are also not free market capitalists.
The economy is still OK for many of us, sorry its not working out for you personally.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
I can’t afford a new car. Lots can’t. Making cars affordable would help a lot of people.
FLOHTX@reddit
15 million people a year can afford a new car.
Youre probably young and jaded, I was too when the economy tanked in 2008 when I was a year out of college. It took a lot of shitty jobs, shitty apartments, and hard work to finally make a decent living now in my 40s. Yes its hard being young, probably harder than when I was young. You just gotta outsmart, out hussle, or outsell your competition.
What do you do, and what are you doing to improve your situation?
Since college, I got my ASE master mechanic certs, a PMP, and a few diesel engine rebuild courses complete. Those credentials pay $100-180K and don't take a genius to complete them.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Im 61 and recently retired after running tech companies for 40 years. I’m also a native Detroiter and you all remind me of how out of touch the big three was in the 70s just before Japan ate your lunches an dinners.
Former_Mud9569@reddit
if you're 61 and worked in tech for 40 years you should be set.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Somebody doesn't read the news.
https://news.crunchbase.com/startups/tech-layoffs/
Former_Mud9569@reddit
I read the news. If you had a 40 year career in tech you should be Ok to hang it up. Why aren't you?
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
I paid 100% of my kids college, and the had the rug pulled 7 years early.
Former_Mud9569@reddit
sounds like bad planning
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Yeah, completely stupid to think my stable job would evaporate at age 58 and then massive layoffs would hit the industry.
The Titanic passengers were similarly bad at planning.
Former_Mud9569@reddit
no offense but given the existential threat of outsourcing that's existed in tech since the 70's, you should have been making full contributions to your retirement plan for the majority of your career. I know I've been doing that.
like I said, it seems like bad planning.
regardless, the job market might be rough for programmers right now but the economy as a whole is not. You've taken your bad experience and extrapolated it to everyone. Like I said in my original comment, the economy is uneven. Some workers, which apparently includes you, are struggling. Others are not.
FLOHTX@reddit
I've been in many roles and many industries, plenty of transferable skills. I've been in oil and gas, Defense, and automotive. I've held roles between sales director, manufacturing manager, sales engineer, program manager, project manager, segment director, marketing analyst, probably more that im forgetting. I've been in blue collar jobs like landscape construction, mechanic, trucking, drywaller, heavy equipment operator. I am self made and have lived in several states around the country. Whatever happens I can find work. In the meantime I'm saving and investing in both the US market and abroad. The goal is to retire to Spain since my wife is of Spanish descent and I speak the language as well since I lived in Miami and Texas.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Did I ask for your resume? Fuck off.
FLOHTX@reddit
Why dont you buy a BYD there and dont piss and moan about a country you dont even live in?
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
I have family, ya know?
FLOHTX@reddit
You said I was "way behind the curve". Meaning I'm sitting on a timebomb for me to be unemployable. I have many skills so I'll be fine. Sorry you didn't diversify.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Oh I'm sure my set of skills dwarfs yours. But I'm not gonna bother listing em. Having the skills doesn't guarantee the job. Suffice it to say...once you're 60 nobody believes you can do shit.
You'll find out. The time bomb is the US economy though.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/09/09/us-economy-is-worse-than-thought-with-1point2-million-fewer-jobs-what-that-means-for-the-fed.html
FLOHTX@reddit
I'm sure your attitude is why you cant get hired. I've worked with many guys in their 60s and 70s with tons of energy and positivity, and a willingness to teach the younger generation. Maybe you just suck to work with. It isn't your age buddy. Its you.
FLOHTX@reddit
Now I see why youre unhireable.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Seriously, what was your point in listing everything you ever did for money?
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
15 million is 0.5% of the US population. Pretty sad market capture. Nevermind that most of them are going to buy imports because they're better quality.
Former_Mud9569@reddit
The USA auto industry is $1.2T a year in economic activity. Using some trade barriers to protect that is warranted.
The USA economy in general is an OK but uneven spot. If you're a skilled worker or are in the capital class, you're probably in a good spot. If you're an unskilled laborer, you're probably going to struggle.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Good thing I’m an expert software systems engineer with 35 years experience. Except for the ageism and AI fake news hype keeping me from getting a job.
Funny how you might think I’m unskilled though. Weird bias.
Former_Mud9569@reddit
If you've been unemployed for the last two years I'd say that yes, there's a huge mismatch between your skillset and what employers actually want.
bandit1206@reddit
You can be a free market capitalist without being a globalist.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
I don’t think that is true
bandit1206@reddit
I disagree, while I’m in favor of free markets, I’m also skeptical of the motives of others (especially when dealing with totalitarian regimes) and understand that there is a security advantage to maintaining certain domestic capabilities and industries domestically. Aside from the danger of global bad actors, we have also seen with the COVID pandemic the fragility of global supply chains, and how that can interrupt the domestic economy.
robo_robb@reddit
Let’s suppose what you say about the economy is true; Then why would you want things to get exponentially worse? Forget about the rich, I’m talking about the average person. Letting in Chinese car manufacturers, who don’t play by the same rules (heavy CCP subsidization to keep their prices artificially low), would be catastrophic.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Let’s say? Job losses are way high and prices/inflation making it worse. Foreclosures on the rise. Repos on cars too. AI hype has obfuscated hiring, claiming to eliminate jobs by the thousands. Whit collar jobs.
I’m out of work two years now on this crap. You think someone like me might buy a car at current prices? I’m not in your economy, man. I’m not a potential customer, ever. I never was.
SailingSpark@reddit
Sadly, if we let BYD and other very cheap Chinese companies free run of the US, nobody would be able to afford their products as nobody would have a job and be able to afford them.
How much longer can the Chinese government continue to subsidize everything?
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Already don’t have a job. They say AI is ending all the jobs. Look down the road a bit, sport. Your market is about to collapse
bandit1206@reddit
Let’s be honest, there’s not much overlap for a cheap Chinese SUV buyer and a Tesla buyer.
doc_55lk@reddit
Not very difficult when there's no scope to choose between them.
bandit1206@reddit
It’s not hard to evaluate the market though. Teslas are a status symbol, a Chinese economy EV is not going to fit that bill for several reasons.
Exclusivity. This is arguably the most important when discussing luxury items and status symbols. If it’s accessible to everyone, it loses its appeal because it is no longer exclusive. A close example would be in watches. A Rolex and a Timex accomplish the same function, it’s even arguable that a Timex quartz does a better job than even the best Rolex (I realize a cell phone or smartwatch out does them both). However the average person cannot walk into a Rolex dealer tomorrow and afford to buy a watch. Most anyone can walk into Wal-Mart and buy a Timex.
Features. This is a huge factor in luxury vehicles. The race has always been to have the most advanced features, and the most creature comforts available in a luxury car. It’s not possible to do this when you are trying to maintain a mass market price point. It’s the reason Cadillac had automatic high beam headlights in the 1950s, but it’s a feature that is just starting to filter into mainstream automobiles.
doc_55lk@reddit
Implying Teslas are status symbols is hilarious lol.
It's not 2015 anymore where the only way you could get into a Tesla was to pay 6 figures on a Model S or X.
It's 2025. You can get a Tesla for similar money as a Toyota Camry. Tesla ubers are a thing now too. Their supercharger network isn't exclusive anymore either.
Most Chinese EVs are also more feature packed than Teslas.
The49GiantWarriors@reddit
Waning? Zoom out and look at car sales across the entire planet. Are more EVs sold today than were sold 10 years ago? 5 years ago? In 5 years, do you suppose EV sales worldwide will be higher or lower than sales today?
seighton@reddit
😝 Evs just had their biggest quarter on record and only will wane temp because the ev rebate expiration pulled demand toward. Who do you think the govt subsidies more oil and gas or Evs? 🤣
Fickle_Finger2974@reddit
This is just objectively wrong. The share of cars sold each year that are electric is at an all time high and has been increasing every single year.
sonofeevil@reddit
I think what you meant was "Interest is actually waning in the USA".
Rest of the world it's different.
JCDU@reddit
I'm not so sure - these days here in UK / EU if you see a new car on the road there's a high chance it's an EV or at the very least a hybrid. I think most people like the benefits and the old barriers like range/charging are going away. For the average person buying a car to get from A to B with the family they are fine now.
There's a vast amount of FUD and spin around EV's in the US it seems, a lot of folks making it a culture war or political thing, a lot of car guys seem to feel threatened by it like Great Thunberg is gonna come and cut off their pp if they drive a muscle car or something.
China are not dumb, they know putting a billion ICE vehicles on the road as their population gets richer would be a major problem and they've pushed ahead with battery tech and EV's as well as solar & wind, they are heading for being sustainably self-sufficient which surely is a good place for any country to be.
JCDU@reddit
Battery tech wasn't really there for a long time, car companies dabbled around but never very seriously.
Elon came along with a mission and a billion dollars to throw at the problem with no-one to tell him he couldn't, and basically brute-forced somewhat OK EV's into existence. Honestly I'd be curious to know how much he spent / at what point Tesla actually break even on the investment if you ignore all the hype, self-driving nonsense, etc.
Importantly though, when Tesla started getting major attention and sales, it forced the other car companies to step up and make an effort because shareholders were saying "This guy's being hailed as the next Henry Ford, what are you gonna do about it?" - hence we also got a generation of cars with fucking stupid touchscreens in them and 50 self-driving startups for people to burn billions of VC cash on because Elmo thought it was sci-fi cool and everyone copied him trying to keep up with his over-promising.
Now we've reached a point where enough people are buying enough batteries that economies of scale kick in, investment money ramps up, etc. and the prices drop / performance improves at pace.
DBDude@reddit
He left PayPal with something around $180 million and spent over half of that on SpaceX. He initially invested $6.5 million in Tesla, which was most of the first round of funding, and invested a bit more later.
People think he's a billionaire who bought into these companies, but he became a billionaire in 2012 because of these companies.
JCDU@reddit
However it shakes out - he was willing to throw a whole buttload of cash into making EV's happen which no other car companies had really been willing to do because they all had ICE lines that were "good enough" and boards of shareholders to answer to.
The fact he was also a good hype man for the tech, coming to be seen as the real Tony Stark back then, meant he got a lot of leeway & goodwill and people (investors included) tended to believe his promises and pump money in.
Obviously he's proven to not quite be the new messiah since then - arguably Tesla are still massively over-valued on the promise of FSD that's always round the corner and the fact that the rest are now catching up fast with the whole EV thing.
DBDude@reddit
My point was that he didn't have a billion dollars to throw at the problem. Tesla was cash strapped for many years, and it came very close to running out of money a couple times.
This isn't like Jeff Bezos at Blue Origin, where he was cashing in a billion dollars a year in Amazon stock for many years to keep the company going as he was developing the technology with no revenue coming in.
On the other hand, SpaceX has certainly delivered. They expected maybe ten reuses on the boosters, and they're up to thirty. Catching that Starship booster was insane. And Starlink has revolutionized the worldwide satellite Internet business.
JCDU@reddit
Plenty of millions then - plus his name & credibility which at the time was riding quite high for attracting investors.
As I say, the exact numbers aren't important - it's the fact he was willing to brute-force the problem because he specifically wanted to make electric cars happen, unlike traditional car companies who mostly saw it as an experiment as to whether it was worth trying to sell EV's alongside their entire ICE range without betting the farm on it.
DBDude@reddit
Not that many millions really. It wasn't brute force, it was creative cost savings. Over at SpaceX they managed to survive by repurposing things like car wash water pumps and garage door actuators, and having water tank makers make their fuel tanks, while the equivalent from the normal aerospace supply companies would have cost over ten times as much. They got a good deal on an abandoned engine test stand so they could develop their engines.
That's the kicker. He was willing to bet the farm on both. His friends actually held an intervention with his idea to do SpaceX, telling him he'd blow all his dotcom money for nothing.
ifallallthetime@reddit
Government subsidies as well as upcoming legislation designed to force people into EVs. Of course the success of Tesla is driving them to compete as well
But all in all, companies aren’t actually losing their minds. This is marketing
Sultangris1@reddit
Technology was and still is lacking for full on EV adoption, plus cannot generate enough electricity to charge them all
lmaooo4566@reddit
BMW has crazy marketing to be able convince some m****s into thinking it's an EV.
JackfruitCrazy51@reddit
People actually experienced owning or driving one. BEV owners have the highest loyalty ranking of any type of vehicle, because overall they provide a better driving experience. Not popular on reddit, but Tesla played a big part in this.
*Creating a real infotainment system that actually improves over time. You can tell the non Tesla owners, they are the ones who constantly are saying "I'm never buying another car without Apple Carplay/AA". Manufacturers have been so bad with infotainment systems, that customers want to use something like Carplay/AA. I've never owned a car that got better over time from software updates, or if it did it was very minimal and happened once every couple of years. The Tesla improves every month, and I don't have to do anything.
*Tesla made all their cars fast and fun. Being able to buy a family car that will curb stomp most sports cars, is a big positive. A family car that runs low 12's every single time, never gets old.
*Tesla proved that if you make a good model, people will buy it. The tesla Model Y has been the #1 or #2 best selling vehicle in the world over the last few years. WORLD. ALL Vehicles. That F150 that sold 700k last year, well Tesla sold a million model Y's.
*I'm talking about the U.S. BEV market. Next year, I expect huge things from GM, with a ton of interesting models being introduced. Unlike the past, the Japanese have been the laggers in the BEV field.
FordF150ChicagoFan@reddit
I feel like Cadillac EVs are some of the nicest looking out there.
JackfruitCrazy51@reddit
Yes, they also had a big quarter.
series-hybrid@reddit
The biggest EV effort before the previous era was the 1996 GM EV-1. California is a huge car market, and they had begun escalating legislation requiring manufacturers to provide alternatives if they wanted to continue selling cars in California.
GM wanted to actually produce something to see what the actual costs were, along with performance, and customer reactions. They used NiMH batteries. GM would only lease the cars to screened and approved buyers.
A start-up called T-Zero made a composite-bodied sports car, which was then bought out by the two original owners of what became "Tesla". The car was good-looking and had strong acceleration. After gaining control of T-Zero, the battery pack was upgraded to lithium to increase range.
Elon Musk was an early investor to the new Tesla company. The first car was the 2008 "Roadster" sports car, made from a Lotus Elise chassis and body. For EV's to succeed, it needed wealthy early adopters, but the EV-1 had been ugly and slow, where the Tesla was good-looking and fast. The $100K price and short range seemed to be irrelevant, as wealthy people wanted to own one of these exclusive historical cars.
China was the main driver of batteries improving, and this article documents the main points
https://www.electricbike.com/catl-brings-big-battery-breakthroughs-in-2024/
FordF150ChicagoFan@reddit
Tesla made them cool. A model S is far more interesting than the EVs that came before it, which were all FWD Prius like econoboxes.
I desperately want the new convertible Hummer EV.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Battery tech. Prior efforts used messy lead acid batteries which were super heavy and slow to charge and high maintenance. Lithium batteries changed the game.
Error_Space@reddit (OP)
I thought Lithium batteries were already in use in many smaller electronics like phones and all those toys that need AA batteries? I actually asked my dad back in the day why the car don't just put a lithium batteries in there and they said it was the problem of fire hazard(which it still is). Did something changed that make people suddenly realized they can just put a bigger lithium batteries in the car?
Electrical_Media_367@reddit
“Lithium” batteries are actually half a dozen different battery chemistries. Current EVs use Lithium iron phosphate, which isn’t used in small electronics and is a very new technology. Small electronics like phones use lithium graphite batteries.
Calling them all “lithium” batteries simplifies things for consumers, but the batteries of today are completely different than what we had 15 years ago.
Organic-End-9767@reddit
It was really the accessibility and cheap cost of gas that won the race between EVs and gas cars back in the 20s. Electricity wasn't as accessible, easy or safe to use back then for car use.
Dry-Influence9@reddit
It takes a lot of engineering to convert a phone battery into a car battery. Its not just about making it bigger, things such as cost, life expectancy, specialized manufacturing, cooling and having a market are very important. And there was a lot of resistance from the gas car companies and oil; they tried to stop it every step of the way and still are trying.
No one is gonna buy a car with a battery that dies in 2 years like phones.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
Larger ones are new - specifically the packaging. Lithiums have fire issues and isolating the cells safely was kind of a breakthrough.
bomber991@reddit
Nickel metal hydride changed the game in too, but chevron owns the patent to it.
jibaro1953@reddit
My mother, who was born in 1922, spoke of a woman who lived a couple of miles out of town who came to town every week for groceries in her Baker Electric.
MoirasPurpleOrb@reddit
seighton@reddit
Believe it started in recent memory with Al gore loosing epa mpg standards in return the big 3 developing an ev, which all 3 never really making it to production. I did see a GM EV1 at a blockbuster once. This loosing of regulation birthed the suv boom of the 90s and was the catalyst for Toyota to develop the Prius. Few years later musk etc.
TrollCannon377@reddit
Tech got better, battery prices got low enough to reach near cost parity with ice vehicles new chemistry's have been developed, and fast charging tech has gotten good enough that a road trip in an EV isn't painfully slow back in the leaf /early bolt days it could take as long as an hour to go 10-80 percent, now their are EVs out their that can do that in 10 minutes.
mostly_kinda_sorta@reddit
EVs were nearly as popular as gas cars in the very early days of the automobile because gas cars were a pain in the ass. But once they made them easier the advantages were clear and a huge industry spent a century developing the tech further. There were occasional EVs through the years but the first that was anything like a success was the GM EV1 in the 90s. Then a couple guys started a company making an electric car based on a lotus. This was a clever move, instead of being an eco car it was a fun car, it was put into racing video games, that was the first Tesla. Elon got involved as an investor with those clever guys very early on but he did not start Tesla. I give them a lot of credit for simply making an electric car that was aspirational instead of just a billboard to how much of an environmentalist you are. The Prius was an eco billboard and while it was loved by eco folks it was hated by car people and ignored by everyone else. Teslas were different, they were fast, they had all sorts of tech. People across the spectrum were at least curious and they couldn't be ignored. They got absurd amounts of funding and used it to build out a public charging infrastructure that helped to negate the biggest fear of EVs. The battery tech was stagnant for a long time because there wasn't really any deep pockets pushing it, yes that changed when billions suddenly got put into battery R&D. They made some smart plays and absolutely helped push the tech forward as well as changed the EV landscape worldwide. That said it's also a ridiculously overvalued company that is worth 20x as much as competitors that sell the same number of cars. There're obviously other issues with the brand but I give credit where it is due and yes they have been the most influential car brand of the 21st century, so far.
DBDude@reddit
Not quite. A company called AC Propulsion had a design for an electric car, but they didn't want to mass produce it. So a couple guys licensed their design to make it themselves. Then Musk also went to AC Propulsion to invest in mass production and they sent him to those guys.
Then Musk decided to not make a licensed design and make their own car instead, and to base it on a variant of the Lotus Elise chassis.
AlphaDisconnect@reddit
Panel upgrades. 120v for 4 miles of range per hour. No. A 30 or more 15 miles... Do you sleep? Eat? Not commute across America? Electric vehicles love the city.
DBDude@reddit
Car makers were working on electric cars aimed at people who were willing to sacrifice to save the environment. They tended to be designed to stand out, like the Leaf and EV1, and they were ugly and underpowered, with short range. Musk decided to make a car that happened to be electric.
housespeciallomein@reddit
My inexpert opinion is that it was a combination of technology advancements (like battery tech) and Elon setting a vision and going for it. I think his success made the ICE manufactures fearful of getting left behind and so it forced them to join in.
Add to this the timing of other large, developing economies, like China who happens to also be a major manufacturing economy which gave it a large second boost, and perhaps a more sustainable long-term boost at that, as EV popularity ebbs and flows a bit with politics and other social influences.
avoidhugeships@reddit
The focus on EV is government regulation driven not demand. They are still too expensive and inconvenient for most people. Tech is getting much better though.
Pan_TheCake_Man@reddit
In addition to battery tech meaning we can go a long way, I really think the charging network has helped propel them as well. Before Tesla built out theirnetwork there was barely anywhere to charge except your home, severely limiting usable range
Cattle13ruiser@reddit
Hello.
Reasons are mixture of political, buissiness and to some extend scientific.
Political side is that many countries but mainly US want to move away from oil dependency and the soft power it gave allied countries in the Middle East. Nearly all military vehicles still use oil and having it in reserve and not tied to the economy (trucks and civilian cars) will let more of that reserves to be used in case of need.
Buissiness - car producers were paing a lot to choke both inovation and alternative means of transport to keep their profits. This changes when a big player who see a empty niche which he can fill and is financially independent so lack of investments are not a stop - unlike startup companies. Also, having good connections and knowng the market, political decisions in advance and knowing where government funding and taxes will hit can lead to unfavorable markets become very profitable in a blink once those laws are passed.
Science - EV use many things now which were economically not viable few years ago. Chips, alloy production and cost, battery technology and many other fields have being developed in rapid pace the last 20-40 years. First EV was created 1832, first functional ICE car - 1885. Also, ICE were improved constanty the last 159 year and we are reached the point of diminishing returns long time ago, EV have a lot of place for improvement as of now.
userb55@reddit
Technically it was, but it's not solved in a single fundamental leap but eventually battery technology got to a place where they can now fit in a car and go useful distances and recharge fairly quickly which basically brought them out of golf kart territory despite still being fundamentally similar.
EffectiveRelief9904@reddit
It’s not more relevant, it’s stellantis agenda and government mandates