Israel says first hostages handed over as Palestinian prisoners also expected to be released

Posted by BabylonianWeeb@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 390 comments

The comments that said that Hamas will break the deal didn't age well lmao

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vapeshapes@reddit

Waiting anxiously for the news of Palestinian hostages being released. Praying for their safety, freedom, and the relief of families who’ve suffered far too long.

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)

20 Israeli hostages and all of them are IDF veterans while there's thousands of Palestinian hostages who didn't commit any crime.

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

Not even close to all of them, and of course some of them are IDF "veterans" considering mandatory conscription

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Zipz@reddit

He says it that way purposely do dehumanize all Isrealis

Even a 70 year old ex veteran is a target according to him

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Poolturtle5772@reddit

Not even projection, since someone has indeed said that in this thread. (I don’t think the account is real but that’s another topic)

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kapsama@reddit

The Israeli government is running around calling Palestinians human animals. It's very clear who the side dehumanizing others is little hasbara bro.

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Again, someone has directly said in this thread that “everyone who has ever been in the IDF is a valid target”. Which is the dehumanization you’re trying to call projection. So it is real, you can’t just ignore it.

“Little hasbara bro” please. Haven’t been defending Israel at all, you jut happened to be wrong about it being projection. All this comes down to.

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fuckmaxm@reddit

But a 7 year old Palestinian is a future veteran, so you can go ahead and snipe him

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Not even close to all of them,

Literally all of those 20 were taken captive at their posts

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jakethepeg1989@reddit

Who are the hostages released by Hamas? Twenty people freed after two years in captivity | The Independent

Just not true. They were mixed, some from Kibbutz and some from Nova.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Once someone is drafted into the military, they forfeit their civilian status

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Colodanman357@reddit

That’s nonsense and even if it were true all that would mean is they were supposed to be held in accordance with the rules for treatment of POWs. You can’t have it both ways claiming they are POWs and then not grant them the rights of POWs.

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TearOpenTheVault@reddit

Pro Palestinians and inventing new international rules to excuse the crimes committed by Hamas and their ilk - name a more iconic duo.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Says the ones who deny that Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza

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TearOpenTheVault@reddit

Whatabout whatabout whatabout-bout-bout!

Sorry, but you can’t just make shit up and deflect with random bullshit. You can check my recent comment history - I’ve called what Israel is doing a Genocide and directly compared it to Bosnia.

The problem is that I expect some basic intellect when people start running their mouths.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Sorry, but you can’t just make shit up and deflect with random bullshit

So you're supporting and opposing Paléstinians simultaneously 🤣🤣🤣 , that's funny

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Frank_Scouter@reddit

Your problem, is that you’re trying to claim that there is a right and a wrong side, in a conflict where both sides are trying to genocide each other.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Which side usurped the other side's land , do you know? Which side has immigrants from Europe who claimed they're indigenous to the land?

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Frank_Scouter@reddit

Uh… Britain? Turkey? Maybe France? Who fucking cares? There’s no excuse for genocide.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

The Palestinians killed 70k Israelis? The Palestinians turned 90% of Gaza into fields of inert grey rubble? The Palestinians bombed Israeli hospitals? The Palestinians starved children to death? The Palestinians maimed children? The Palestinians blew up Israeli journalists?

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Frank_Scouter@reddit

Why are trying so hard to defend a genocide? No one here is claiming that Israel is good. But neither is Palestine. And it’s quite telling that your only argument is that Israel is equally bad.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

You deserve an ignoble prize for believing that a bunch of criminal gangs who usurped a land that's not theirs are on par with a population merely fighting for freedom

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TearOpenTheVault@reddit

No. I can support Palestinians while thinking Hamas are scum who primarily get Palestinians killed as their leadership yuks it up in Qatar.

But I guess to someone with terminal black and white thinking, Palestine and Hamas are completely inseparable.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

No. I can support Palestinians while thinking Hamas are scum who primarily get Palestinians killed as their leadership yuks it up in Qatar.

We don't need your support then

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

Aren't you starving? Aren't you in an open air prison? Aren't you being genocided? Sounds like you need all the support you can get

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Not from people of that ilk

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TearOpenTheVault@reddit

Bot, 14 year old, wilful idiot or Iranian propagandist? Call it.

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

False

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jakethepeg1989@reddit

That's not true
They still were categorically not taken from IDF posts.

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Assassiiinuss@reddit

This isn't true.

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azure_beauty@reddit

I didn't know I can just make shit up (only two were kidnapped from military bases, the rest were taken from their homes and the supernova festival)

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redditing_away@reddit

Welcome to r/anime_titties, take a seat and make yourself comfortable.

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azure_beauty@reddit

I remember when this subreddit used to be normal and valued facts.

These days I get downvoted on unrelated posts due solely to my flair.

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Ala117@reddit

it still does.

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azure_beauty@reddit

Not enough to chase out those who don't.

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Ala117@reddit

what "those who don't"?

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azure_beauty@reddit

Those who don't respect the truth. For example the person I responded to at the beginning of the thread.

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Ala117@reddit

disagreeing with you means not respecting the truth? you want to chase people away to turn this sub into another worldnews echo chamber?

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azure_beauty@reddit

You cannot disagree about established facts. They lied and then doubled down on their false claims.

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Ala117@reddit

and just because of that this sub suddenly is an echo chamber you don't like.

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redditing_away@reddit

Yeah sorry, this is a team sport and you're on the wrong one. Get fucked.

(/s)

I know and agree, it's sad to see. Makes me long for the brief period of respite when you guys bombed Iran, they cut their Internet and for some reason the demographic here changed completely temporarily. It really was back to how it was with some actually interesting discussions.

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HourEast5496@reddit

Lol! Old and new Nazis sharing tips, how basic of you.

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redditing_away@reddit

Thank you for so eloquently proving the point.

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Dvine24hr@reddit

This sub is basically r/ internationalnews now

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MrTatyo@reddit

How the fuck can you be kidnapped from a military base? Your an active member of a side committing a genocide, you have been captured for par taking in a genocide.

Reminds me of the famous new report: "IDF soldier kidnapped from his tank".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/10/11/israel-palestinians-hamas-gaza-hostage-release/482d509c-a669-11f0-8f8b-d9483809ee65_story.html

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azure_beauty@reddit

If Hamas was a state army, or at the very least adhered to laws of international conflict, that term could be disputed.

In this case you have armed terrorists storming a military base (established for the purposes of observing the border, not waging war) and then dragging the people inside away into your tunnels.

Similar terminology has been used in other instances, and I see no problems with it considering there are very few other words you can use to accurately describe this action.

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MrTatyo@reddit

the very least adhered to laws of international conflict,

Your joking? Israel is currently committing a genocide, an illegal blockage of humanitarian aid, using starvation as a weapon, currently and actively bombing sovereign countries and enforcing an apartheid regime in the West Bank. All of which are war crimes and against international law.

established for the purposes of observing the border

You mean an open air prison which is considered occupied against international law.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

only two were kidnapped from military bases, the rest were taken from their homes and the supernova festival

Cope harder

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azure_beauty@reddit

You're literally denying reality

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

I'm not denying reality, you're just distorting reality

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

Ok then, show the proof of all of them being idf

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

The Israeli law mandates that all Israelis aged 18 and above both males and females are drafted into the military

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redditing_away@reddit

Cool so during their connection they're military. Once that ends and they leave the military they're civilian.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

And when Israel calls up reservists, they all are drafted.. in plain words, once you're drafted into the military then you're not civilian anymore unless you announce that you have quit your military service altogether

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redditing_away@reddit

Once your initial draft ends you're no longer part of the military and thus are back to civilian status.

Mandatory conscription doesn't mean you're military for life.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Once your initial draft ends you're no longer part of the military and thus are back to civilian status.

You're called a decommissioned individual, you're not a civilian

Mandatory conscription doesn't mean you're military for life.

Not unless you quit your military service for good

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redditing_away@reddit

You're called a decommissioned individual, you're not a civilian

Not unless you quit your military service for good

Decommissioned literally means you're no longer part of the military. That's the point.

Everyone who is not part of the armed forces and not engaged in active combat is a civilian. Here's some help from Doctors without Borders:

Therefore, a civilian is any individual who is not a member of one of the following groups:

the regular armed forces, even one that professes allegiance to a government or authority not recognized by the adverse power;

the armed forces of a party to the conflict, as well as militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces;

all organized groups and units, as long as these groups and units are under a command that is responsible for the conduct of its subordinates, even if the party to the conflict to which it responds is represented by a government or authority not recognized by an adverse party. This last category includes organized resistance movements and other small armed groups (GCIII Arts. 4.a.1–3, 4.a.6; API Arts. 43, 50).

None of which applies to the people in question. And to drive the point further:

In case of doubt concerning the status of an individual, he or she must be considered a civilian (API Art. 50).

People who ended their mandatory service, officially left the military and just went to a music festival are civilians.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Everyone who is not part of the armed forces and not engaged in active combat is a civilian

So if someone is a soldier and has a day off in the military, then they're civilians? Then per your logic, the vast majority of those Hamas members whom Israel has assassinated are civilians because they weren't engaged in combat at the time as well as those who were killed for having previous nexus to the group, thanks for inadvertently arguing that Israel kills civilians 🤙🏻🤙🏻

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redditing_away@reddit

Do I really have to explain to you the difference between "taking a day off" and "leaving the job altogether"?

Maybe take a look at the definition of who's a combatant and who's a civilian before spouting nonsense on the internet.

Israel kills civilians

That's hardly a gotcha, is it? Same with the fine folk on your side. No one's denying that but a few lunatics.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Do I really have to explain to you the difference between "taking a day off" and "leaving the job altogether"?

Stop moving the goal post, leaving the military altogether means that you won't rejoin it if you're mobilized

Maybe take a look at the definition of who's a combatant and who's a civilian before spouting nonsense on the internet.

Someone who serves in the military for 3 years during which they oppress and collude with their government to prosecute a defenseless population, isn't a civilian

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redditing_away@reddit

Stop moving the goal post, leaving the military altogether means that you won't rejoin it if you're mobilized

If one is moving the goalposts it's you since your own definition of "decommissioned individual" is the opposite of what you claimed.

The same is true with becoming a civilian after leaving the military, you can also become military again after rejoining it. Shocking revelation, I know.

It may be hard to grasp when all you've known are the fine people on your side deliberately blurring the line between combatant and civilian by not openly identifying as combatant (which is also stated in IHL mind you), but you can switch between those two.

Someone who serves in the military for 3 years during which they oppress and collude with their government to prosecute a defenseless population, isn't a civilian

What you think is irrelevant when international law, which you were so keen on before, says otherwise.

While in some countries, entire segments of the population between certain ages may be drafted into the armed forces in the event of armed conflict, only those persons who are actually drafted, i.e., who are actually incorporated into the armed forces, can be considered combatants. Potential mobilization does not render the person concerned a combatant liable to attack.

As soon as that ends, they're back to being civilians.

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azure_beauty@reddit

They literally claimed they were kidnapped off of military bases, it is clear they have no idea what they are talking about.

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LanaDelHeeey@reddit

This is a very easy way to go from “they are all military actors” to “they are all military targets” to “we need to kill them all.”

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

They are active reservists at most

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Ergo, they're not civilians

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

Wow, you cracked it! Everyone who’s ever done mandatory service is a soldier forever. Quick, someone warn Switzerland!

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

I can tell that not all Lithuanians have braincells in the single digits as in your case, otherwise they would still be communists

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DanDan1993@reddit

Why are you making shit up?

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TheAlphaKiller17@reddit

"I was just followed orders" isn't recognized as a valid defense.

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DanDan1993@reddit

What orders did a guy who served in IDF 17 years ago and haven't been there since followed?

Because you're climbing on a tree saying most of all Israeli are valid military targets because they served in the IDF in anytime of their life (no matter what they did, like.. platoon educational soldier which is laughable job but does exist).

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Moppermonster@reddit

Considering this thing has been going on for 80 years... "17 years ago" is pretty short. Heck, occasionally we still find an actual ww2 nazi that is still alive and still put them on trial.

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DanDan1993@reddit

So you're up to charge Gideon Levy, haaretz reporter for being a war criminal because he served in the IDF?

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bullhead2007@reddit

If he committed war crimes against Palestinians like participating in ethnic cleansing or killing civilians, then yes.

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DanDan1993@reddit

He was a news reporter and editor for the army radio station...

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bullhead2007@reddit

Did he commit war crimes? If not then he should not be convicted of war crimes. It's that simple.

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DanDan1993@reddit

That just depends on your definition of war crimes.

Some people say: he served in IDF? Automatically a war criminal.

Other people say: did a war criminal listen to his shows on a war criminal based radio? Did he entertain other war criminals? Then he's a war criminal.

I agree with what you said.. just trying to explain how insane the notion that everyone who served in the IDF in the past is a valid target.

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HourEast5496@reddit

Because you're climbing on a tree saying most of all Israeli are valid military targets

Aren't you Znazis using the same excuse to kill, kidnap, torture, and raping Palestinians on a daily basis, kHuMaAs???

Hell, you nazis have used the same excuse when shot hind rajab, a 6 year old little girl, 335 times.

You people used the same excuse, killing each and every medic, journalist, dr, teacher, sweepers, women, babies, elderly.

Every IDF, old or new, is a legit target, thanks to your own actions during Gaza Holocaust.

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DanDan1993@reddit

Sir did you take your meds?

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anticomet@reddit

The IDF are like cops. They are all bastards that use force to maintain colonial oppression. The only Israelis i respect are the ones who chose to not serve with the IDF despite the personal hardships it placed on themselves.

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DanDan1993@reddit

I noticed you failed to answer the question

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anticomet@reddit

They maintain colonial oppression through violence. That is the whole purpose of the IDF and the crime committed by the people working to keep it functioning.

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SouvlakiPlaystation@reddit

Your flair shows you live in North America. By your logic anyone in your family that has ever served in the military is a valid target. Tell your grandpa to watch his back.

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DanDan1993@reddit

Still side stepping.

How did a guy who served in the IDF 17 years ago keeping in functioning?

By your logic Gideon Levi is a war criminal too, even though he served in the army radio station...

Maybe climb down your tree?

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lostinspacs@reddit

Being conscripted to an army isn’t a crime lol

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2klaedfoorboo@reddit

I think there’s a bit of a distinction between janitors and those actually in Gaza- I’m not going to get angry with anyone doing the bare minimum to avoid jail

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)

Literally the same excuse that Nazis used

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Frank_Scouter@reddit

Plenty of Nazis went free, because they hadn’t personally participated in any war crimes.

Being part of IDF is not a war crime, or partaking in genocide, or whatever you want to call it.

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

That doesn't even make sense considering what I said, what orders?

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WallyWestJest@reddit

so then they were in fact valid targets and not hostages.

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WouldbangMelisandre@reddit

Nope

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HourEast5496@reddit

20 Israeli hostages and all of them are IDF veterans while there's thousands of Palestinian hostages who didn't commit any crime.

I am looking at their pics and none of them idf POW look starved and on the death bed as these ZNazis have been telling us all along, just like they kept telling us their girls were being raped and pregnant 21 or 22 weeks by mid 2024.

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Zipz@reddit

You must of missed the last exchange where they clearly were

Or are you going to ignore that?

Let’s also ignore these round look plenty skinny

Imagine trying to defend Hamas on this BS

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860v2@reddit

*prisoners

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vapeshapes@reddit

Yeah, sorry, should have mentioned about IDF prisoners as well.

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860v2@reddit

*hostages

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Just-another-weapon@reddit

Apparently they aren't being allowed to celebrate the return of their loved ones over threat that they'll be sent back to prison and their family homes would be 'damaged'.

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icameow14@reddit

Why spread such a stupid lie?

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Just-another-weapon@reddit

Better tell BBC News radio team that they are peddling untruths.

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icameow14@reddit

And your source for that is “trust me bro”? You are an idiot if you truly believe this.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-warns-west-bank-palestinians-against-celebrating-prisoners-releases/

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Just-another-weapon@reddit

BBC News Radio 09:57 GMT

You seem like quite the fool.

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icameow14@reddit

Lol you just posted a link to the live report. Your timestamp means nothing either because it’s in the future 😂 9:57 GMT is in 20 minutes my friend.

Why are you so adamant on spreading such a stupid lie? So typical.

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Just-another-weapon@reddit

9:57 GMT is in 20 minutes my friend.

BST. Somehow I get the feeling that you don't want this to be true.

You're post history is wall to wall genocide denial and dehumanising rhetoric on the Palestinians.

I almost feel sorry for you. You clearly can't be happy with your life.

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Chance-Plantain8314@reddit

Israeli "hostages". Palestinian "prisoners".

Israeli "families". Palestinian "people".

Western media should be ashamed of itself.

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PickledLlama@reddit

Just got called a horrible person for pointing this out so that's nice.

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ChefCurryYumYum@reddit

The good thing is due to the internet and social media that I think more and more people are becoming aware of these tactics and how they are used.

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Zipz@reddit

Lol

And it’s funny how unaware you are on the difference between a hostages and a prisoner

Hint hint it has to do with the Geneva convention

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

Question for you:

What do you call it when you are abducted off your land by a foreign military, having not committed any crimes, and then are held in squalid conditions where you are tortured, starved and gang raped by militants, and if you do find yourself standing trial, it’s a kangaroo military tribunal even though you’re a civilian?

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ChefCurryYumYum@reddit

What is the point of your response? A weak attempt at obfuscating the truth that Israel is able to put a lot of pressure on western media sources to change the tone and tenor of coverage of Israel's actions?

It doesn't work.

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Zipz@reddit

Lmfaoo I just told you

You guys brought up why the difference between the two words

I tried explaining it to you but you want to ignore it because it destroyed your BS narrative

Try to keep up

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ChefCurryYumYum@reddit

You are wrong again.

https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/

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Zipz@reddit

And that has nothing to do with what I said

One more time

The Geneva convention has rules

If they are not followed a person goes from a pow to hostage

It’s embarrassing you tried posting some random bs to try and have a point

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ChefCurryYumYum@reddit

Exactly, because you tried to side step what was being discussed, thinking focusing on one small detail would eradicate the actual topic of discussion.

You either stick to the topic or stop replying to me, I won't engage with your bad faith discussion.

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Firecracker048@reddit

Hamas literally calls them hostages because the entire point of taking them was to prevent a retaliation.

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bullhead2007@reddit

These "hostages" are prisoners of war, IOF Soldiers captured during combat in Gaza.

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LatterTarget7@reddit

9 month old Kfir was an iof soldier?

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

5 year old Hind Rajab was Hamas?

The two-day-old twins who hadn’t even been named yet, but we’re blown to smithereens in their mother’s arms by Israel were actually Hamas in disguise?

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GothicGolem29@reddit

No they are not A they were kidnapped in Israel B they have been generally considered hostages C many werent even serving as soldiers but kidnapped from their homes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvl9k4mw8no

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meister2983@reddit

They weren't captured in Gaza; they were taken in Israel proper.

And no, plenty of the last hostages were civilians. POW only applies to combatants

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anticomet@reddit

And as bargaining chips to release the thousands of Palestinians, many of them children, from Israeli custody.

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BackseatCowwatcher@reddit

And as bargaining chips to release the thousands of Palestinians, many of them children,

you're half right, they got 2000 Palestinians released, including 250 'life sentence' prisoners including Hamas leaders, 1700 Hamas members captured in gaza, and 22 children.

which says a lot about their priorities in who to release.

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

Why is Israel refusing to release the >3.5K Palestinians held indefinitely in detention without being charged for any crimes - ie Hostages?

Why does the “most moral army in the world” abduct thousands of innocent civilians and torture them constantly?

Why do they refuse to release them, even when they’re unable to concoct some vague accusation of crimes like “he lobbed a pebble at an armoured tank so we are seeking a life sentence for this child in military court”?

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Early_Occasion3403@reddit

“Many of them children”

Nothing like just actually lying

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akanefuru@reddit

Israel is just going to take more like they did last time. Continue to call then "prisoners" and the whole west accept it as fact. No one is going to question how they replenished their supply and the number didn't go down but went up.

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ChefCurryYumYum@reddit

https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/

And certain western media companies are purposely, as directed by leadership, choosing specific words when speaking about one group versus the other in a naked attempt to change how you and I feel about the conflict.

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LineOfInquiry@reddit

Yeah, and most of the Israeli “prisoners” are hostages too, taken without committing any crime and thrown into cages to be traded for this specific purpose.

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hungry4nuns@reddit

“Their backward savages”

This is BBC’s basic guide to describing people.

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flossdaily@reddit

That's an accurate description of a death cult ("martyrdom culture"). I can't think of anything more backward than wanting your good to die.

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EH1987@reddit

I feel like when people are killed randomly and frequently by an occupying force, tgeir loved ones trying to find meaning In their deaths is a pretty natural reaction.

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flossdaily@reddit

You obviously didn't watch the video.

This isn't some retroactive justification of the deaths of their children... This is mothers actively encouraging their children to die.

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EH1987@reddit

Mothers who've grown up in a place where people are randomly murdered by an occupying power, tell me you wouldn't be fucked up too if you lived under constant threat of being killed randomly, where children playing on a beach get missiles shot at them for no discernable reason.

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flossdaily@reddit

Are you going to pretend that Palestinians have suffered more than the Jews who went through concentration camps in the Holocaust?

But at no point did the Jews ever decide that they wanted their children to die.

The native Americans lost their entire country, faced horrific Injustice, but never once wished for their children to die.

The world is full of cultures that have gone through pain and Injustice. None of them other than radical islamists have adopted this sickness of the mind and spirit.

It's indefensible. Yet here you are, defending it.

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

Pretty disgusting to try and move Zionists to innocence by conflating them with Holocaust survivors, when Zionists willingly let Jews be sent to concentration camps as long as it furthered their mission to colonize Palestine.

Hell, Israel even hired Nazi soldiers to work for Mossad. Look up Otto Skorzeny.

Genocide is indefensible, even when the perpetrators are Jewish. And yet, here you are defending the genocidaires.

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EH1987@reddit

Why are you making a tiny number of people representative of an entire ethnic and religious group?

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flossdaily@reddit

The Palestinian culture is defined by their martyrdom death cult. Look at who all of their institutions and buildings are named after.

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EH1987@reddit

People killed by Israel?

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flossdaily@reddit

People who died making war on Israel when Israel offered peace.

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EH1987@reddit

Israel has never offered peace and it was founded on war and ethnic cleansing.

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flossdaily@reddit

Israel has been offering peaceful coexistence from the very beginning. There never would have been a single drop of blood had the Arabs accepted the UN partition plan.

Israel has offered Palestinians a path to statehood at least five times.

Israel offered Arafat the most generous peace offer in human history. All of gaza, 98% of the West Bank, half of Israel's holiest city.

Palestinians don't want peace. The Palestinians don't even want a state. What Palestinians want is the death of the Jewish state.

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EH1987@reddit

"If you just let us take half of your land we wouldn't have to kill you and take it by force. This is is really your fault."

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GothicGolem29@reddit

It would have given both groups Jews and Palestinians a state and would have spotentially stopped this conflict that has gone on for DECADES

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flossdaily@reddit

It wasn't their land. That land holds ancient Jewish holy sites, and the bones of the ancestors of Jews going back thousands of years.

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EH1987@reddit

And that of other older groups as well. Sorry but there is no divine property deed.

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flossdaily@reddit

The kingdom of Judea it's the only sovereignty that ever sprang from that land.

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EH1987@reddit

Now you're just resorting to denying history.

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flossdaily@reddit

I'm really not. Other than the kingdom of Judea, what other sovereignty was born in Israel? Not, conquered, but was actually native?

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EH1987@reddit

It's very telling that you have to come up with arbitrary limitations like "sovereignty" to make your argument, as if people and their history desn't matter unless they have a state.

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flossdaily@reddit

Nah. It would be like if in a hundred years we were talking about Louisiana, and the Sioux Nation was claiming they were the natives to the land... and you're point to the French (before the Louisiana Purchase) and the US presently, and claiming that those countries are both just as native to the land.

Nope. They have some claim to being native... but it's not even close to that of the Souix.

And Israel, in accepting the Partition Plan, and offering multiple two-state solution deals has acknowledged that other people can also claim to be native.

But the Palestinian position is to claim that Jews don't belong at all, and they will not share the land no matter what.

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EH1987@reddit

No it wouldn't, your analogy is atrocious.

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TommyTwoNips@reddit

Blood and Soil ass argument from the modern nazis.

You should be ashamed of yourself, but I doubt you possess the capacity to feel shame. That require at least a basic level of empathy.

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flossdaily@reddit

You having fun debating that straw man over there?

When you're done, I'm over here waiting for a response to what I actually wrote.

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TommyTwoNips@reddit

I'm not debating a nazi.

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flossdaily@reddit

I am.

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Maximum-Hall-5614@reddit

They’re gonna die anyway. Better to die fighting back against the genocide, than doing nothing and dying a horrible death anyway.

[-]

flossdaily@reddit

They’re gonna die anyway.

That's an insane statement.

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holdMyBeerBoy@reddit

Oh, was it invented only now? I would bet it was invented almost at the same time as the religion itself… genius takes.

That is people like you fail to understand that Islam was a religion created by the best warmongers to wage war and conquer. Everything in it prioritizes war and conquest over anything.

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EH1987@reddit

Israel didn't start killing Palestinians recently, they've been doing it since 1948.

There are all manner of religious concepts that people just don't really engage with until they experience hardship.

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holdMyBeerBoy@reddit

You know who started first? The “palestinians”. But that would required some read.

Like it would require some culture to understand martyrdom didn’t start with Arab Jews and Muslims and EU Jews establishing Israel.

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2009miles@reddit

You know who started first? The “palestinians”. But that would required some read.

What do you consider to be the starting point?

[-]

EH1987@reddit

A little pushback and you instantly shift over to saying they deserve it.

[-]

ChefCurryYumYum@reddit

The Intercept published a New York Times internal memo from last year where they specifically laid out exactly this.

https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/

[-]

fluffybaconUK@reddit

Ironically, UK users are unable to see that link :(

[-]

PixelationIX@reddit

Hopefully you are able to access this site, same image.

[-]

MaestroRozen@reddit

I'll just shamelessly steal this from another thread:

Ahmed Mahmoud Ali al-Kaabneh, who murdered Hagit Zabicki from the settlement of Adumim, and Leat Kastiel from Holon, in Wadi Qelt in 1997, will be released.

The individuals who recruited and sent the suicide bomber to commit the (failed) Lehi Street bombing in August 2024 will be released.

Fatah senior Hazem Awad, who was arrested in 2003 after standing behind a large number of attacks in which Israelis were killed and injured, will be released.

A senior Fatah official in Bethlehem, Ismail Hamdan, who kidnapped and murdered Avi Boaz Braverman, will be released. He carried out additional terrorist attacks.

Adnan Abu Atiyah, the head of the Tanzim in Bethlehem, who according to security sources was responsible for many attacks in the sector and for the murder of 8 Israelis, will be released. He eluded forces for 4 years before being captured inside a hospital in Bethlehem.

A Palestinian police officer who killed Chief Superintendent Moshe Dayan in Jerusalem in 2002, will be released.

Ahmad Siag, who stabbed a female soldier 4 years ago and stole her weapon, will be released.

The terrorist who killed Raziel Shevach, a father of six, will be released.

Zid Ganidi, the head of the large terror cell in Hebron that was thwarted by the Shin Bet four months ago, will be released to his home in Hebron.

Nader Abu Turki recruited a suicide bomber and carried out a shooting attack. After his release in the Shalit deal, he served as a liaison between Hamas based in Turkey and Hamas based in the West Bank. He will be released into the West Bank as well.

Hussam Matar, an Arab resident of East Jerusalem, will be released. He was arrested in 2007 for the kidnapping and murder of a collaborator. He also planned to assassinate a minister.

Ali Hamed, who carried out a vehicular ramming attack in Tel Aviv in 2022 (only injuries), will be released after 3 years.

Mohammad Ali Hassan Qawsmeh, who was released in the 2011 Gilad Shalit deal, later resumed Hamas military operations and was re-arrested in March 2024.

Omar Ahmad Ayoub Azeiza, who was released in the 2011 Gilad Shalit deal, returned to Hamas activity and re-arrested in March 2024, will be released.

Muhammad Harub, who was sentenced in 2024 to 19 years in prison after fatally injuring an Arab on Yom Kippur Eve because he thought he was Jewish, will be released to his home in the West Bank.

Iman Sider, the Hamas member who carried out the murderous shooting attack in Nahalat Shiva, led a suicide bomber to the Binyanei Hauma area, planned the kidnapping of a soldier, and more, will be released.

The terrorist who broke into the Frye family’s home at night, fatally stabbing Danny Frye and seriously injuring his pregnant wife - who subsequently lost her unborn child - will be released. The Palestinian attacker committed the murder to dispel rumors that he was collaborating with Israel.

Muhammad Zaidi and Atsam Farah, who committed the horrific murder of Merik Gabrielov in 2000 will also be released. The victim was shot 15-20 times and his body dumped in a vehicle that was set on fire. The 25-year-old was only identified through dental records, and the attackers were captured 6 years later.

The individual who dispatched the suicide bomber who murdered the soldier Roy Farjoun in 2006, will be released.

Yasser Atsfur, head of the Tanzim in Hebron, will be released. He was convicted to two life sentences and 20 years on twelve offenses which include two cases of murder, and one attempted murder.

Here are several unnamed individuals whose offences are known who will also be released:

A Hamas member who carried out the fatal stabbing attack.
A Hamas member who carried out an attack in which a woman was murdered. Arrested in 2016, sentenced to life imprisonment.
A Hamas member who murdered an Israeli in Kafr Qasim. Arrested in 2018, sentenced to life imprisonment.
A Hamas member who murdered two in a shooting attack in Gush Etzion. Arrested in 2015, sentenced to life imprisonment.
A Hamas member bomb engineer who sent terrorists to carry out attacks in which Israelis were injured. He was arrested in 2001, sentenced to life imprisonment.
A senior Hamas military operative who dispatched terrorists to carry out attacks in which there were Israeli casualties. He was arrested in 2004, sentenced to life imprisonment.
One of the Hamas members who kidnapped and murdered Nissim Toledano in 1992. He also participated in a car bombing on two soldiers. He was arrested in 1993, sentenced to life imprisonment.

Of course, there is no doubt that Israel is holding other Palestinians without cause or trial. But those aren't the people Hamas is asking for to be released. Innocent civilians are of no use to them unless they can bring pressure on Israel by suffering or dying. If Hamas asked for hostages, then Israel would be releasing hostages. But they asked for prisoners, so it's prisoners who'll be released. With that in mind, pray tell : why is Hamas asking for terrorists and murderees to be released over civilians if end goal is peace?

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RowdyRoddyRosenstein@reddit

Hamas released Alon Ahel, a 24 year old jazz pianist.

Israel released Nabil Hadir, serving a life sentence for stabbing his sister to death in front of her three daughters.

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Rafabas@reddit

Fun exercise we have here.

Israeli courts have about a 99% conviction rate for any Palestinian taken captive.

You wanna talk about the other tens of thousands?

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Rubysz@reddit

Hamas literally captured children sleeping at home in their beds, what are you even talking about

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Glass-Evidence-7296@reddit

you made that up didn't you

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RowdyRoddyRosenstein@reddit

On the other hand, every single captive taken by Hamas was a serving soldier captured in battle.

If you're going to lie, at least try to come up with a lie that can't be dismissed by taking two seconds to search Google.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/29/middleeast/kfir-shiri-ariel-bibas-israel-hostage-intl-hnk

Which side do you think has the fairer system?

Israel.

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BackseatCowwatcher@reddit

every single captive taken by Hamas was a serving soldier captured in battle

That's not even remotely true? like they kidnapped children, and foreigners alongside retired elders.

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Zipz@reddit

So does the American federal goverment. So does Japan. So do other countries

This isn’t the point you think it is

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flossdaily@reddit

This is an insane comment.

These are Israeli hostages: innocent people who were ripped from their homes on October 7th.

These are Palestinian prisoners: Palestinians convicted of absolutely brutal crimes. Just as an example, one of these guys has been sentenced to 45 life sentences for orchestrating suicide bombings.

As for Israel "families" and Palestinian "people" ... You'll complain about anything. If it had been the other way around, you'd be whining that "hey Palestinians are also people!"

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

My guy, you are the one with the insane comment.

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/palestinian-children-israeli-military-detention-report-increasingly-violent-conditions

The Palestinian Commission has said that about 9,000 Palestinians were being held in Israeli jails as of the end of January compared to 5,250 before 7 October but it did not have updated numbers due to restricted access to detainees. Estimated that about 460 children have been detained in about five months. This is a jump from previous estimates of about 500-700 Palestinian children being held in Israeli military detention each year.

So you’re saying that nearly 9.000 “prisoners” were all convicted of absolutely brutal crimes.

Please tell me what brutal crimes the 900 children committed.

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flossdaily@reddit

Hamas isn't simply asking for the children who are in administrative detention.

They're asking for people who have been convicted of brutal murders, where there was overwhelming evidence that they did these horrific things.

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

So you admit that Israel holds Palestinian hostages?

Also with that logic every ex IDF member kidnapped on oct 7th isn’t really a hostage but a prisoner.

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flossdaily@reddit

Palestinian hostages?

No. Administrative detention is not hostages.

For someone to be held in administrative detention, the arresting authority must demonstrate to a judge within 8 days, that they have evidence that the person being detained was planning to commit a crime.

That's a very very low bar for detaining someone. On the other hand, you can see how Israel would have a very real and immediate need to detain people, without exposing their intelligence network in a public trial. Every informant that they have embedded in the Palestinian territories, and every technological tool that they have for intercepting communications would become obsolete, if it had to be handed over to either the public or even just to the accused. And therefore the intelligence network would become useless.

Israel's national security is at stake. That's not a bullshit line either, they were attacked on seven fronts during this war, they have been attacked non-stop by the Palestinians for decades. It's plain as day that the security concerns are clear, present and genuine.

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

How do you know that the hostages taken by Hamas were not given a trial by Hamas? You state the IDF gains nothing from doing their trials openly or publicly how can you prove Hamas hasn’t done the same?

Judges from an oppressing country can not give a fair trial to the people they are genociding.

You are delusional if you think all of the children kidnapped from Palestine were given a fair trial and found to be guilty of “planning a crime”.

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flossdaily@reddit

You're right... Maybe Hamas did have a mock trial for the baby and the elderly and the other people they ripped out of their homes, and whose names they didn't even know until they were already dragged back to terror dungeons.

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

How come you say the Palestinian trials would be a mock trial but the Israeli ones legit?

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flossdaily@reddit

The kidnapped a baby.

Is it possible to have a legitimate trial for a baby?

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

I’m confused now, are you talking about the IDF or Hamas? Because I’ve clearly posted a source with my claim of children being abducted by the IDF.

Which comes back to my original question that you dodged, what “brutal crimes” did those 900 children do to deserve to be thrown in prison by the IDF? Where they are then starved. (According to Israel’s Supreme Court)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/07/israels-supreme-court-says-government-is-not-giving-palestinian-prisoners-enough-food

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flossdaily@reddit

Hamas kidnapped literal babies.

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

“Each year, approximately 700 Palestinian children aged 12 to 17, the great majority of them boys, are arrested, interrogated and detained by the Israeli army, police and security agents.[147] Between the years 2003 and 2013, an estimated 7,000 children were detained, interrogated, prosecuted and/or imprisoned within the Israeli military justice system – an average of two children each day.[148] Israel, after it emerged that even 12-year-old children were prosecuted in adult military courts, instituted in September 2009 a juvenile military court, the only one known to exist in the world, which, however, uses the same staff and rooms as the military courts where Palestinian adults are put on trial”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

How are you defending this? This has been happening for 20+ years.

You know who has also been at constant attack since Israel was founded? Palestine.

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flossdaily@reddit

How are you defending this? This has been happening for 20+ years.

Israelis can stop treating Palestinian children as legitimate security threats as soon as the Palestinians stop using their children to commit atrocities:

Here's a time that the Palestinians try to use 14-year-old as a suicide bomber.

Here are a list of more children suicide bombers used by Palestinians:

Jan 2002: Safwat Rahman, 17 Mar 2002: Ayat al-Akhras, 17 May 2002: Issa Badir, 17 Jun 2002: Hamza Samudi, 17 Mar 2003: Sabih al-Saoud, 16 Aug 2003: Islam Qteishat, 17 Aug 2003: Khamais Gerwan, 17 January 2004: Iyad al-Masri, 17

That comes fromHuman Rights Watch via the BBC

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

Looks to me like they stopped 21 years ago?

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flossdaily@reddit

You mean, the exact time that Israel implemented this system that you're arguing against?

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

“According to a March 2013 report by the UNICEF, Israel has arrested some 7,000 Palestinian children; 18 of 27 arrested in Hebron in March 2013 were below the age of 12.[168][169] The report was based on 400 cases documented since 2009. It stated that the Palestinian children who are detained by the Israeli military are subjected to "widespread, systematic and institutionalized" ill treatment in violation of international law. UNICEF estimated that in the West Bank, IDF and Israeli security services annually arrest around 700 youths between 12 and 17 years old”

From the same Wikipedia article I linked earlier.

Do you think that all of these children were suspected of “brutal crimes”?

How can you honestly defend the IDFs actions with a clean conscience?

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akanefuru@reddit

"planning to commit a crime"

Wow the only democracy in the middle east.

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flossdaily@reddit

I mean, Hamas is shooting their own people in the street for "disloyalty."

That's the team you're on.

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akanefuru@reddit

You're on the team that thinks they are the chosen people and all the other 7 billion people God created can rot.

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flossdaily@reddit

My support for Israel has to do with the fact that they are a pluralist liberal Democracy with equal rights for all, including freedom of religion.

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celloh234@reddit

Equal rights for all? Are you hearing yourself?

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flossdaily@reddit

Yes.

Have you ever been to Israel or even researched it for a minute?

20% of Israeli citizens are Arab (ethnic-Palestinian). They have full freedoms just like any other citizen. They can practice whatever religion they want. They have risen to prominence in every aspect of civilian life. They hold high positions in government, including sitting on the Israeli Supreme court, and hold many seats in the Knesset (and these aren't yes-men, either... they are a very strong opposition party on many issues).

How many Jews are in Palestinian government? How many Jews thrive in Gaza's civilian life?

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akanefuru@reddit

I have been to Palestine / West Bank as an American Muslim.

I have no Arab ancestry.

I have been stopped at every single check point and asked for Palestinian ID with a phone shoved up my face.

I have been told this check point is not for me and to go 2 hours north to a different check point

Equal democracy my ass

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celloh234@reddit

Palestinians in gaza strip cant leave it. They cant fly aboard nor can they enter israel territory. There i shattered your delusions

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flossdaily@reddit

Palestinians in gaza strip cant leave it.

I can't leave the United States either, without proper permissions to get into other countries.

Am I in an open air prison?

They cant fly aboard nor can they enter israel territory.

Thousands and thousands of Palestinians worked inside of Israel for the past 20 years. Every month tens of thousands of Palestinians got exit papers to go all over the world.

There i shattered your delusions

Did you? Or did you just put your ignorance on full display?

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celloh234@reddit

LMAOOOO

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-10-12/ty-article/.premium/prisoner-convicted-of-raping-and-murdering-13-year-old-to-be-released-in-gaza-truce-deal/00000199-d973-da09-a1bb-dbfbdb120000

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Chance-Plantain8314@reddit

The vast majority of these "prisoners" are people who did absolutely nothing wrong and the fact that they're tarring absolutely every Palestinian with the same brush is very obviously being done on purpose.

Stop acting like you're on the moral high-horse when you're spending your time on reddit defending a nation of genocidal freaks.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

And yet, the people Palestine wants released have done things very very wrong.

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akanefuru@reddit

I doubt the conviction is real and even if it is, that's what 1 out of millions doing said crime.

When are these people going to be convicted of their crimes:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/03/1161081 https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/03/more-human-can-bear-israels-systematic-use-sexual-reproductive-and-other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_against_Palestinians_during_the_Gaza_war

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

I doubt those accusations are real and even if they are, that's what 1 out of millions doing said crime.

When are these people going to be convicted of their crimes:

https://www.hrw.org/report/2006/11/06/question-security/violence-against-palestinian-women-and-girls

" We get six to seven rape cases a year and lots of incest cases…When I bring the fathers in, they don't deny it. They say 'I have a right to her body over others' or 'I want her to go to her husband experienced.'"

It's part of Palestine's society to do these acts with their women and girls.

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akanefuru@reddit

You didn't answer my question and continue to blame Palestinians. Your people are doing the same and walking around as innocent.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

You didn't answer my question and continue to blame Israelis. Your people are doing the same and walking around as innocent.

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celloh234@reddit

Bro thinks he is a master debater 💀 more like masturbator to netanyahu

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brydeswhale@reddit

How much do you get paid to shill for babykillers and murderers?

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GothicGolem29@reddit

No they should not. Hamas has made clear they kidnapped these people to trade for prisoners that is the difference(despite the fact Israel has unfairly detained alot and treats them badly.)

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Rafabas@reddit

Every captive taken by Hamas has been a serving soldier captured in battle. Israel imprisons kids. They are not the same.

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Zipz@reddit

Wrong plenty of random hostages were taken

Take that BS somewhere else

Ya I’m sure the bibas kids were all battalion commanders in the idf

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Chance-Plantain8314@reddit

A huge number of Israeli "prisoners" are innocent kids. How're they not hostages but the Israelis are? Figure yourself out.

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GothicGolem29@reddit

Hostage is when someone is taken to be traded or for something similar. Israel could arrest innocent people for other reasons like collective punishment.

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Rafabas@reddit

Yet they still find themselves trading them. Curious.

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Rafabas@reddit

Israeli “strikes”. Palestinian “bombings”.

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860v2@reddit

That’s because a lot of the Palestinians released are convicted terrorists.

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celloh234@reddit

Most palestininans are held without a conviction, trial or a defense lawyer that has acess to evidence. Its not innocent until proven guilty its innocent if israeli, guilty if palestinian

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860v2@reddit

What does this have to do with Hamas demanding that convicted terrorists be released?

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celloh234@reddit

My balls

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Depressed_amkae8C@reddit

Got eemmm

[-]

Chance-Plantain8314@reddit

Nobody falls for this anymore, your blatantly obvious Hasbara isn't effective anymore. It's just pathetic.

You can try all you want, but nobody falls for calling people you're actively killing and oppressing terrorists anymore.

Stick to defending rapists and pedophiles.

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860v2@reddit

If this were true, then you wouldn’t currently be melting down over my comments. You’re just upset because I’m exposing the truth.

Stay mad and keep losing.

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Chance-Plantain8314@reddit

Melting down, lmao. Israelis really are pathetic when it comes to standing against anyone that isn't an unarmed child.

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FlagerantFragerant@reddit

Why should anyone be ashamed to be accurate?

I'm not even gonna be bothered to explaining to y'all the difference between hostage and prisoner.

Israeli families because a very small population of Israel is directly suffering from this mess (hostage families, Oct 7th families, IDF families), while it's Palestinian people because literally everyone is Gaza is suffering

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TheAlphaKiller17@reddit

No, they're hostage in Palestine, too. Israel has admitted to baselessly arresting thousands of innocent Palestinians to use as leverage, they've kidnapped children, many of those in Israeli jails have nerve committed nor been accused of a crime, never tried or convicted and are held in "administrative detention" under where they're handcuffed 24/7 so tightly their hands need to be amputated occasionally and where some are violently raped to death with metal rods. And why aren't the Israeli soldiers being referred to as POWs?

As to your second, what a ridiculous comment. They're suddenly no longer families just because of the sheer number of them affected? Not to mention that arguing that Western media doesn't use dehumanizing and inaccurate language to describe Palestinians and Muslims in general is so obviously disingenuous that I have to assume you're either trolling or just defending it because you agree with the dehumanization. It's widely acknowledged and talked about and you can find articles and websites devoted to the topic.

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TearOpenTheVault@reddit

The extremely lopsided exchange rate for hostages creates perverse incentives for Israel to grab as many Palestinians as possible. If you need to trade dozens, if not hundreds of people for a handful of your citizens, snatching as many as you can get is just common sense.

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

Except the fact that they have been doing this for 20+ years?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

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FlagerantFragerant@reddit

We can start a crowd fund to buy you some children's books to learn English. You can work your way up from there and learn th nuisances of the english language. Imagine not being able to understand basic English and getting triggered by it 😂

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helio97@reddit

Yes, he will certainly learn nuisances of the English language 🤣🤣

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TheAlphaKiller17@reddit

🤣

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Cynixxx@reddit

I'm not even gonna be bothered to explaining to y'all the difference between hostage and prisoner

Tell me, i'm curious. Why are kidnapped Palestinians prisoners and kidnapped israelis hostages?

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Yurarus1@reddit

The arabs which were incarcerated, went through the legal loop that every citizen has to go, they were judged to be in the wrong for killing and so on.

[-]

BlessadurKarl@reddit

My guy, all you had to do was google and you’d find out how fucking insane you sound.

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Yurarus1@reddit

I was in Israel during the 7th of October, I saw the incarceration of random Arabs from the nearby villages , they were looking for some militants who hid in the villages.

Those who were taken randomly, some were released, some weren't.

The rest of the people on that list of 1900 are terrorists who are not fit to live in civilization in any form.

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pr0metheusssss@reddit

Why were you witnessing the abduction (“incarceration of random Arabs”) with impunity?

Were you attached to the IDF?

[-]

Yurarus1@reddit

At the moment, I just saw a small well armed group kill citizen, later I also went to festival place. It kinda dulled my empathy sensors towards Arabs.

It seems to me the hurt group making sure not one of the vile individuals who attacked them went away not punished.

Nothing to do with IDF, I was doing my Master's in the university of Ben Gurion.

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BlessadurKarl@reddit

“It seems to me the hurt group making sure not one of the vile individuals who attacked them went away not punished”

This works both ways my G. Why do you think oct 7th happened?

[-]

Yurarus1@reddit

Of course it works both ways, it was my stance at the time due to what I saw and witnessed.

Regarding your question, the answer would be long and convoluted, and I already know you have a certain stance and regardless of how I answer, you will not read it or disregard it.

But in a nutshell(disregarding 70 years of conflict) Muslims cannot stand the fact that the people who were under their rule for a thousand years have autonomy and their own land, which was sold and given to them by the ruling power at the time.

And so, a hundred years of suffering is going on, just for the sole purpose of Jews cannot have their homeland back.

This is a disgusting oversimplification.

[-]

splader@reddit

[-]

BlessadurKarl@reddit

I have a certain stance due to the evidence provided so far. Which is that Israel is committing a genocide in 2025 and we can see it live on our screens, the same screen I’m using to reply to you.

You say I would either not read or disregard your reply which is just false. If your reply is factual (even if it’s long) I’ll read it and form an opinion.

I am also a bit confused by your original comment. Were you at the music festival when the attack happened? Or did you just go to the scene the day/days after? Because you mention seeing a “small armed group kill civilians” was that Hamas or the IDF and their Hannibal directive? Because as far as I can tell only 400-600 civilians were killed on oct 7th by Hamas (that’s a nearly 50/50 combatant/civilian ratio) (the exact ratio that the IDF lies to the media about having, while killing tens of thousands of women and children).

[-]

Yurarus1@reddit

I was invited to the music festival by some friends, I declined as I had a lab report to submit and I needed to crunch and submit it.

Some friends gathered and watched the go pro footage on telegram that Hamas released.

Again, my stance is that IDF is more reliable than Al Jazeera or Hamas, which it seems a different than your stance.

Primarily as the IDF is a military force which has to follow protocols, while Hamas and Al Jazeera can spin their own narrative and people will suck it up.

The day after the attack, the roads were half unblocked for travel, so we went to pick up our friend who managed to survive (the one who invited me) he told me that he was lucky, as nearby the Hamas militants were busy raping some poor lass so they didn't notice him hiding in a tube that goes under a bridge.

In General, the attack on Israel was successful, the problem is that Hamas lives on the thought "this is the last day of my life" and can't think for the future, I have no idea what they thought that Israel would do, did Allah was supposed and lay them to waste?

[-]

Sahaquiel_9@reddit

https://www.oct7factcheck.com/Oct-7-Fact-Check-44250004f0fe4cc98c43ecda539aa7b8

[-]

BlessadurKarl@reddit

“The IDF is a military force which has to follow protocols”

That’s just a blatant fucking lie.

Double tapping a hospital because a “Hamas camera” was there after Reuters had informed them that they were filming there that day is not following protocols.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/the-gaza-family-torn-apart-by-idf-snipers-from-chicago-and-munich please inform me what protocols were followed here?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/07/israels-supreme-court-says-government-is-not-giving-palestinian-prisoners-enough-food or here.

Because here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/12/israeli-ex-commander-confirms-palestinian-casualties-are-more-than-200000 Herzi Halevu an ex military commander for the IDF has confirmed that more than 200,000 Palestinians have been killed or injured in the war in Gaza, and that “not once” in the course of the conflict were military operations inhibited by legal advice.

Notice how he says “not once in the course of the conflict were military operations inhibited by legal advice”.

So please tell me what are the IDF protocols that you claim they follow so blindly.

[-]

pr0metheusssss@reddit

But you’re an Israeli IDF veteran that currently lives in germany, as you admit here: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGermany/s/tEJBkGwcBS.

Why did you hide that information and spoke around it in your comment, when I directly asked you?

[-]

Yurarus1@reddit

I currently do my PhD in Germany, correct.

I never hid anything, it was irrelevant. I served in the IDF in a laboratory, calling me a veteran is an exaggeration xD

I am not a Jew, nor am I an Arab. I can view the conflict from the sidelines as someone who lived in Israel for a decade.

The Arabs who live inside Israel, integrated quite well, my friends and colleagues who are Arab, do not represent the ones in Gaza or the West Bank. For them I have overflowing love.

Those who have only hate and celebrate the deaths of their children and celebrate Jihad, for those I have no Empathy.

[-]

SymphoDeProggy@reddit

a hostage is taken for the purpose of leverage. they're not taken because of what they did or are suspected to plan on doing, they're taken to extract a concession from a third party.

a prisoner is detained because of actions they have taken, attempted taking, or are suspected to be planning to take.

[-]

Monterenbas@reddit

Prisonners = known finished number of year in prison, determined by a judge.

Hostages = indefinite emprisonnement, that can only end in exchange for some financial or political concessions.

[-]

pr0metheusssss@reddit

Prisonners = known finished number of year in prison, determined by a judge.

So why the Palestinians under “administrative detention”, ie held without charges, without a trial and for an unspecified amount of time, are they called “prisoners”?

[-]

Monterenbas@reddit

You ask for the difference between hostage and prisoners, i gave it to you.

Sorry you don’t like it, be mad at the dictionnary, i don’t make the definitions.

[-]

pr0metheusssss@reddit

So you agree that all Palestinians under “administrative detention” are hostages and not prisoners, right?

That was my entire point, glad we’re in agreement.

[-]

Monterenbas@reddit

Nope.

If Israel is not asking for anything in exchange for the realese of the people held in administrative detention, then by definition, those people are not hostages.

[-]

pr0metheusssss@reddit

Sorry you don’t like it, go be mad at the dictionary or - even better - your own words that you yourself wrote.

[-]

Monterenbas@reddit

Sorry that different words have different meaning and that you can’t freely swap prisoners and hostages, in order to score some easy internet point.

[-]

Ser_Optimus@reddit

*or death

[-]

I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

I'm not even gonna be bothered to explaining to y'all the difference between hostage and prisoner.

All of those are soldiers and they served in the military, they are complicit in abetting and harming Paléstinians, once someone is drafted into the military then they forfeit their civilian status.. now explain to me how those unarmed Palestinians are called prisoners?

[-]

meister2983@reddit

You should be ashamed for not knowing that the word "hostage" means

[-]

McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Hostages are by definition people taken to extort demands from their loved ones and nation.

[-]

EducationalReply6493@reddit

I’m surprised they even refer to Palestinians as people

[-]

TheJewPear@reddit

Yes, Palestinians who were convicted of murder and are currently doing life are prisoners. Yes, Israelis who were kidnapped from a party are hostages.

It’s not hard.

[-]

Sahaquiel_9@reddit

Every last one was convicted of murder and doing life? How about the Palestinians detained without trial or charge as administrative detainees?

And also, every single israeli captured by Palestinians was caught raving next to a concentration camp? Can you tell me what actions Israel took to avoid Palestine dapturing hostages? And why are those actions called the Hannibal directive?

[-]

BlessadurKarl@reddit

You throw around the “convicted” word like it’s a fact?

Most of them have not been convicted, they have been straight up kidnapped.

[-]

alt-right-del@reddit

Oh dear you think that Palestinians get a fair trial 😂

Many of the are under administrative detention, Israel has prisons for children — it’s called fascism to incarcerate at will.

[-]

Dependent-Archer-662@reddit

Western media should be ashamed of itself

They change their tune when it comes to Russia-Ukraine. The hypocrisy is seen by the world

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

Deeply unserious comments. If your family was affected by terrorism you wouldn't be cheering for the Palestinian prisoners who aided in that. These aren't ordinary people and thinking otherwise shows how uneducated and hateful y'all are.

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

if your country wasn't an apartheid ethnostate and perpetual belligerent occupier, you wouldn't have to worry about Palestinian resistance.

[-]

McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Palestine is the apartheid ethnostate, bro.

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

okay, please expand on that with a few sentences.

[-]

McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

I'll expand on that with quotations from founding documents of Palestine.

"The state of Palestine is an Arab state" - Palestinian Declaration of Independence.

"Islam is the official religion in Palestine....The principles of Islamic Shari’a shall be a principal source of legislation." - Palestinian Constitution"

A state for Arab Muslims? Sounds like an ethnostate to me!

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

I guess we're looking past that the existence of 'apartheid' requires
1) literal control of your own territory,
2) a population for Palestinians to subjugate (Palestine has neither),
3) implemented systemic segregate practice (Palestine has none),

and we're just going by 'vibes'.

the Palestinian declaration of independence also says:

Governance will be based on principles of social justice, equality and nondiscrimination in public rights on grounds of race, religion, color or sex, under the aegis of a constitution which ensures the rule of law and an independent judiciary. Thus shall these principles allow no departure from Palestine's age-old spiritual and civilizational heritage of tolerance and religious coexistence. (link)

there is nothing 'apartheid' in Palestine other than Israels treatment of Palestinians.

[-]

McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

One smear at a time. Do you acknowledge that Palestine is an ethnostate? Then we can talk about apartheid.

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

why would I?

it is by definition not an ethnostate.

Palestinian Basic Law

Article 9: "Palestinians shall be equal before the law and the judiciary, without discrimination because of race, sex, color, religion, political views or disability."

Article 10: “Basic human rights and freedoms shall be binding and respected by the Palestinian National Authority.”

Article 18: “Freedom of belief, worship and the performance of religious rites are guaranteed.”

this is an ethnostate:

BASIC-LAW: ISRAEL - THE NATION STATE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE
Basic principles:
1. (b) "The State of Israel is the nation state of the Jewish People in which it realizes its natural, cultural, religious and historical right to self-determination."
1. (c) "The realization of the right to national self determination in the State of Israel is exclusive to the Jewish People."
7. "The State views the development of Jewish settlement as a national value, and shall act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation."

[-]

McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

https://main.knesset.gov.il/EN/activity/documents/BasicLawsPDF/BasicLawLiberty.pdf

"The basic human rights in Israel are based on the recognition of the value of the human being, the sanctity of his life, and his being a free person, and they shall be upheld in the spirit of the principles included in the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel."

"The State of Israel is the nation state of the Jewish People in which it realizes its natural, cultural, religious and historical right to self-determination."

What's the problem with that? I just showed you Palestine is an Arab state.

"Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will."

ETHNOSTATE!!!

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

ethnostate: a state which is dominated by-, or in which citizenship is restricted to members of a particular racial or ethnic group.

Israel reserving the right to national self-determination to Jews, prioritizing Jews over others (for example settlements, but there are other examples in law), and even engineering a Jewish majority demographic is what makes it an ethnostate.

offering basic human rights to citizens of other ethnicities does not alter that.

for Palestinians, 'Palestinian' is not exclusionary; it's a national identity, not an ethnicity. 'Arab' in the context of Palestine refers to Palestines cultural inclusion among the Arab states, not the right to Palestinian self-determination being exclusive to Arabs.

[-]

McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Palestine reserves the right of national-self-determination to Palestinian Arabs. I just showed you that in the quote above.

for Palestinians, 'Palestinian' is not exclusionary; it's a national identity, not an ethnicity.

Who's a Palestinian? Can anyone in the world become a Palestinian?

"The Palestinians are those Arab nationals who, until 1947, normally resided in Palestine regardless of whether they were evicted from it or have stayed there. Anyone born, after that date, of a Palestinian father - whether inside Palestine or outside it - is also a Palestinian."

Sounds like you need to be Arab to be Palestinian. Meanwhile, anyone in the world can convert to Judaism and become a Jew. Sounds like Palestine is more exclusionary than Israel, not less.

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

no, the article you linked does not say that. it says Palestinians reserve themselves the right not to be occupied.

Can anyone in the world become a Palestinian?

if Palestine had sovereignty and autonomy, yes, the same way anyone can move to Norway and become Norwegian.

there is no exclusion clause for non-Arabs; the only thing stopping people from becoming Palestinian is Israel's occupation.

[-]

860v2@reddit

Palestinians have committed terrorist attacks worldwide. It’s not just about Israel.

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

it is only about Israel.

[-]

blackglum@reddit

Palestine is an ethnostate....

[-]

Back_at_it_agains@reddit

That would require them to be, you know, an actual state…

[-]

blackglum@reddit

they dont care about being a state

[-]

Back_at_it_agains@reddit

Oh I didn’t know. Guess they like being subjugated by Israel then.

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

So cool to support terrorism, rape, abduction and murder for the glorious resistance 🤓☝🏻 sybau 💔🥀

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

the oppressor defines the nature of the struggle, not the oppressed.

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

Okay, I'm telling the sami it's ok to harm non indigenous Norwegian civilians, is that okay? Actually you dont have a say oppressor. According to your logic the sami can now rape and murder y'all. #glorious resistance?

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

you should probably read up on this if you're gonna try making an equivalence.

Norway has no colonization, no occupation, no segregation, no apartheid ethnostate; Sami are regular Norwegian citizens.

at least your comparison tacitly admits Palestinians are the indigenous population. that's more than most Israelis.

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

Lol that's because both Israelis and Palestinians are indigenous to israel.

I read a bit about Norwegianization and it doesn't look so nice :( even oppressive! #glorious resistance yay!!!!

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

I think you're conflating indigeneity and ancestry.

'indigenous' is used for populations whose culture existed in an area before colonization or the establishment of present state boundaries, and whose culture exists separately from the state's dominant group.

indigenous peoples have their own cultural rights. simple ancestry does not give you those rights.

Israel was established in 1948. Jewish Israelis are the dominant group, thus Palestinians is the only indigenous population. for the same reason, Sami are considered indigenous because their culture pre-dates the existence of the current Norwegian state.

I read a bit about Norwegianization and it doesn't look so nice

it wasn't nice.

although I find the irony in using this as an argument palpable. Israel did forced assimilation to non-Ashkenazi Jews in Israel in the mid 1900's; that you're comparing that to Israel's treatment of Palestinians is wild.

[-]

Ala117@reddit

the things your heroes at the idf can do and get away with.

[-]

HourEast5496@reddit

If your family was affected by terrorism you wouldn't be cheering for the Israelis.

These aren't ordinary Znazis from Israel and thinking otherwise shows how uneducated and hateful y'all are.

FIFY

[-]

860v2@reddit

Israel isn’t a terrorist organization. Hamas is.

[-]

BDOKlem@reddit

you're right. with a $25 billion budget, a simple 'terror organization' label does not do Israel justice.

it's a terror state.

[-]

UK-KILLD-10M-IRANIS@reddit

Ah, the never ending Zionist victim complex.

Most of the Palestinians you throw into your heinous nazi cells are held without charge or fair trial — many of them are even children. And those who do face prosecution are tried under your apartheid military laws that apply only to Palestinians.

Fuck Israel in every form and sense.

[-]

shieeet@reddit

These aren't ordinary Palestinians and thinking otherwise shows how uneducated and hateful y'all are.

The 2,000 include some 1,700 of the several thousand Palestinians that Israeli troops seized from Gaza during the 2-year war and have held without charge.

💁‍♂️

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

For every release of Palestinian prisoners, the law ministry releases for the general knowledge the names, organizations and crimes of these people. While I won't be surprised if there are a bit less terrorists (instead, looters who broke in and stole the murdered's things.... Not a good look either) these aren't normal people. I looked at a few names and it's all terror or aiding in it. If you want to support and defend that, go ahead.

https://www.gov.il/he/departments/dynamiccollectors/is-db?skip=0

[-]

shieeet@reddit

Oh, I'm sorry, maybe you didn't read the comment and the linked article. It specifically said (and I'll caps it for you this time so it's easier to comprehend the emphasis):

The 2,000 include some 1,700 OF THE SEVERAL THOUSAND PALESTINIANS THAT ISRAELI TROOPS SEIZED FROM GAZA DURING THE 2-YEAR WAR AND HAVE HELD WITHOUT CHARGE.

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

And you think these are all innocent civilians? I have to laugh...

[-]

shieeet@reddit

How would you know? Again, since you seem to struggle comprehending the very simple article; 1700 of the released palestinians haven't even been charged with anything.

[-]

feminismandpancakes@reddit

It's really not rocket science and I'm not an expert. They haven't been charged because there were more important prisoners (not as serious as nukhba, that's a different story) to take care than looters and standbiers who illegally entered the country to do so.

[-]

shieeet@reddit

lmao, so guilty until proven innocent? Using your racist logic, it would be fair to presume that a majority of Israelis are rapists because of the Israeli pro-rape riots. No need for any formal charges here!

Get outa here with that shit lol

[-]

TrueBigorna@reddit

Every Palestinian is guilty of the crime of being Palestinian in his eyes. That's colonial states work, Zionism was founded on "A land without people and a people without land", its vile.

[-]

ki3fdab33f@reddit

Okay. Feel free to send back the billions of dollars and all those interceptor missiles. You have free health care and college. People here can barely afford to pay rent and buy groceries. Either cry here or go cry in your car.

[-]

I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Now that the captives are released, Israel will start reneging on the agreement, I don't think the genocide will resume in the way we witnessed for 2 years , Israel will start providing air support for the militias that Hamas is battling , and if those drone strikes manage to thwart all Hamas' attempts to restore law and order in Gaza, the situation will deteriorate egregiously

[-]

GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit

Netanyahu needs hamas. He armed them in the first place to fight fatah and other groups. He knew they would attack on oct 7 and let them so he could continue his power as a wartime president. He’ll continue to arm them as long as they are the Conservative Party in Gaza. They would never allow a peaceful group that could realistically instate a 2 state solution.

[-]

GothicGolem29@reddit

I highly doubt he planned October 7th his people being masscred only caused him issues with the pubic who were rightfully upset. Also btw he is PM not president

[-]

SymphoDeProggy@reddit

He didn't arm hamas what the hell are you on about

[-]

GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_support_for_Hamas

[-]

SymphoDeProggy@reddit

Where does that wikipage say netanyahu armed hamas?

[-]

GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit

“Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has defended allowing transfer of millions of dollars to Hamas-run Gaza despite criticism from within his own government, including the education minister Naftali Bennet.[45] After the October 7 attacks, Netanyahu went on record denying the claims that he facilitated financing of Hamas in order to create a 'divide and conquer' situation. He also said that he transferred funds to avoid "humanitarian collapse" in Gaza.[11] Israeli intelligence officials believe that the money had a role in the success of 2023 Hamas-led attack”

[-]

DanDan1993@reddit

Those are Qatari funds which entered the strip under netanyahu (and Bennet, and Lapid....), not weapons nor ammunition....

Question; had Israel declined to let the funds enter the strip, would you protest at Israel withholding aid cash to the strip?

[-]

FriedRice2682@reddit

+972 Magazine

Did the transfer of Qatari money into Gaza only begin in 2018?

Qatar actually started transferring money to Hamas in 2012, though this was via bank wires and it was very small amounts. This changed fundamentally in 2018, when Netanyahu persuaded his cabinet to approve bigger transfers and change the mechanism of transfer to cash. After that, a car carrying suitcases full of almost $30 million in cash would pass through Rafah Crossing every month from the summer of 2018 until October 2023.

As far as we know, most of the security establishment was against this move, but it was very important for Netanyahu and he succeeded.

I think it was also mentioned in the Bibi files, but I would have to watch it again just to be sure.

[-]

DanDan1993@reddit

Where did I dispute anything you wrote?

That's cash meant for aid. Or at least was meant to be. Care to answer my question?

[-]

FriedRice2682@reddit

That's cash meant for aid.

What a load of crap. If you're not already aware of Bibi strategy for derailing the 2 states solutions, then you should read. Of course, you're near instant reply to my other comment makes me think you won't...Anyway

Care to answer my question? Lol, which one? The one, where Hamas absolutely has to have cash and not wired transfer. Of course you need cash for aid...the same aid that buys you gun and bullets of course.

[-]

DanDan1993@reddit

Had Israel blocked the cash coming at the request of Qatar (and delivered by an envoy ou Qatar!) would you protest at Israel blocking cash aid entering Gaza?

[-]

FriedRice2682@reddit

Yeah, the gotcha Qatar is transferring money to Hamas.

The wired transfers that has been going on, started in 2012. Which also was not long after the US asked Qatar to host Hamas HQ.

In 2011, U.S. President Barack Obama personally requested that Qatar, one of the U.S.'s most important Arab allies, provide a base for the Hamas leadership. source

Those transfers were already monitored by the Israeli and US government. When the US put Hamas on a terrorist list, Bibi went to the US to ask for an exemptions so that the payment could be sustained. source. He also lobbied the Qatari. source

Finally, the fact that Bibi is on trial for bribery, fraud and that that money also went toFogel who Bibi met numerous time at its home is NOT suspicious...

But what do I know?!

[-]

DanDan1993@reddit

Qatar funding to Gaza started in 2007 so you obviously don't really know much.

[-]

FriedRice2682@reddit

Actually, Qatar supported Hamas in 90's as counterweight to Egypt, and the Saudis, but the amount and frequency grew considerably after 2011, because it was Bibi strategy of divide, you know since Hamas wouldn't recognize Israel, while the PA wanted to do so.

[-]

DanDan1993@reddit

Supporting the Muslim brotherhood doesn't mean supporting Hamas. Them sitting in the Madrid conference in 91 doesn't mean they started supporting them in the 90s.

[-]

SymphoDeProggy@reddit

banks refused to allow transfer because that would have made them vulnerable to anti terror financing laws. Bennett ran into this issue when he attempted to reform the qatari funding system in 2021, which he failed for this reason.

[-]

SymphoDeProggy@reddit

most of the security establishment was against this move

i don't think there's evidence of that.

this article seems to think Netanyahu in 2018 had a button on his desk he could press to replace Hamas with the PA, instead of the reality which was that israel would have had to invade gaza and forcibly oust hamas.

[-]

SymphoDeProggy@reddit

you cannot be this condescending and also be this superficially informed at the same time. pick one.

that doesn't say he armed hamas, because he didn't. he allowed qatar to fund gaza because at the time the gazan public sector and economy was melting down. a left govt would have done the same thing, because the alternative would have been to go in there and forcibly flush hamas out of gaza in a ground invasion like what's been going on for the past 2 years, which absolutely nobody wanted in 2018.

Haaretz 2018: "Images of Qatari Cash Flowing Into Gaza May Embarrass Netanyahu - but Alternative Is War" (paywalled but free on my mobile, for some reason)

[-]

Tough_Measuremen@reddit

So I’m guessing to expect a manufactured crisis to keep him in power?

[-]

Sacaron_R3@reddit

My best guess is that Hamas will be kept busy with the armed groups that got propped up by the IDF, with strikes against key personnel conducted by the IDF similar to the situation in Lebanon.

Bibi will use that time to settle the score with Iran, hoping that his stocks last longer this time, and that his allies will help defending against iranian strikes as they did before. If Iran is too tough a nut to crack, Lebanon or Syria might be more tempting targets to keep the forever war going.

The IDF will reorganize and get some much needed R&R. As soon as the IDF is ready to back to business, Gaza will be pounded again.

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NoHetro@reddit

Allowing Qatari funds in != Israel arming Hamas,

If they didn't allow Qatari funds you would be crying foul and if they do you say they are arming Hamas, it's absurd.

[-]

sBucks24@reddit

He needed Hamas to sow unrest. With several competing gangs now doing that along side Hamas, I'm sure Netanyahu doesn't give AF which militant group comes out on top so long as he can point at them and go "evil Muslims!" still

[-]

GiveMeSumChonChon@reddit

Hamas has name recognition. They did oct 7 so they will definitely keep them in power so long as they can say they killed “Hamas militants” in the news. The average American doesn’t even know the difference between the West Bank and Gaza let alone that they are controlled by different groups. Hamas lets them continue their incursion into the West Bank because most people assume the Hamas controls the West Bank.

[-]

GothicGolem29@reddit

I think they will mostly uphold the ceasefire(maybe some violations but not full return to war)they need to keep the US happy. The main way the agreement ends imo is if Hamas refuses the part of the deal that says they need to disarm

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meister2983@reddit

Hamas is supposed to disarm. If Hamas is battling anyone, they are the ones in violation of the ceasefire

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blackglum@reddit

Only 4 of 28 bodies of dead hostages will be returned today. It seems the ‘blatant breach of agreement is by Hamas.

Projection as always.

[-]

Tangentkoala@reddit

Im really curious to see what israel does afterwards.

Do they just say fuck all and put more war pressure back on?

Do they retreat and claim victory, while letting gaza keep weapons?

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PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit

They won't fully retreat as long as there is no disarmament, as per the agreed deal.

Tho partial occupation is better than a full one I guess

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Ok-Call-4805@reddit

Even with full disarmament, Israel wouldn't stop. Remember, 2023 was the deadliest year on record for Palestinian children before October 7th.

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GothicGolem29@reddit

Full disarmament gives Israel a huge thing that it wants which is Hamas no longer a threat a

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meister2983@reddit

Remember, 2023 was the deadliest year on record for Palestinian children before October 7th.

There's no way that is true given that multiple Gazan wars had happened prior.

[-]

flossdaily@reddit

That's just a nonsense take that has absolutely no basis in reality.

Remember that Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They wouldn't have ever been back had enough for the October 7th attacks.

Israel doesn't want Gaza. Israel just wants Gaza to stop stop making war.

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Ok-Call-4805@reddit

Gaza was essentially an open air prison before October 7th because of Israel

[-]

sarim25@reddit

Yes, Israel kept complete control on ground, air and sea around Gaza, and they used it to choke Palestinians in Gaza.

I always see the propaganda reply of "Israel withdrew in 2005" but that's always disingenuous. Israel still kept settlements around Gaza and controlled any aid or help that went into Gaza.

[-]

Ok-Call-4805@reddit

Exactly. People ignore these facts to push the Zionist propaganda that this all started on October 7th.

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flossdaily@reddit

Would Ireland be an open-air prison if you guys were a bunch of terrorist assholes, to the point where none of your surrounding neighbors would allow you to cross their borders without severe restrictions?

I'm trying to figure out what it is that you think was prison -like? Have you seen videos from pre-war Gaza? Looks like pretty much any City from around the world. Restaurants, shopping ... Not a single Israeli soldier in the country.

[-]

Ok-Call-4805@reddit

The biggest terrorists over there are the IDF. There's countless hours of footage showing how Israel mistreats the Palestinians, then they have the nerve to act like victims when the Palestinians dare to fight back. The only reason organizations like Hamas exist is due to the actions of Israel.

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flossdaily@reddit

So your answer to the question of why Gaza is an open-air prison is something about IDF soldiers? But IDF soldiers haven't been in Gaza for 20 years.

Do you want to try again? I'll give you one do-over.

[-]

Ok-Call-4805@reddit

But IDF soldiers haven't been in Gaza for 20 years.

Then who was murdering all those children prior to October 7th?

[-]

flossdaily@reddit

I really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you want to Google it and figure it out for yourself first? Are you talking about the West Bank? You know that's a different place from Gaza right?

At any rate, I'd love for you to get back to me on the topic at hand which is why you think Gaza is an open-air person. Your first answer was dead wrong. There were no idea of soldiers in Gaza for 20 years

Some people, when discovering that the foundational argument for something is wrong, would take a moment and reconsider if they've misunderstood a topic.

Anyways, I'm all ears... Very excited to see what you come up with next.

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Drab_Majesty@reddit

Hamas never agreed to disarmament have you got a source on that?

[-]

PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit

Yet Hamas agreed to the peace plan, which involve its disarmament later

Just read the plan and different phase

So, gaza will be stuck mid plan, with partial israeli occupation and no recognition

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fullkaretas@reddit

They agreed to phase 1 of the peace plan ,no?

And that didnt include the disarmament.

[-]

Drab_Majesty@reddit

Hamas agreed they will disarm if Israel withdraws completely from Gaza. So Israel has agreed to that?

[-]

PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit

Yeah, read the fucking plan

Israel will give way to an international force

[-]

Drab_Majesty@reddit

I think this agreed "plan" only exists in your head brother. Israel has not agreed to withdraw completely from Gaza. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[-]

PhoenixKingMalekith@reddit

Just use a fucking news website

There is a ceasefire right now, following a peace plan accepted by both israel and hamas

[-]

flossdaily@reddit

You seem to be talking with someone who is dedicated to remaining ignorant. You're absolutely correct that the outline of the peace plan has already been published.

[-]

Drab_Majesty@reddit

Help your brother in density out and provide a source that Israel has agreed to completely withdraw from Gaza and Hamas has agreed to disarmament. Why is it so hard?

[-]

flossdaily@reddit

I'm not going to Google this week's top news story for you. I have no interest in helping you out of your willful ignorance. I like it when my political opponents make themselves sound like idiots.

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Drab_Majesty@reddit

A lot of words to say you are wrong and too much of a coward to admit it.

[-]

Drab_Majesty@reddit

I have clearly read more than you because you are having a hissy fit rather than providing a source that supports your claims. Hamas has never agreed to disarmament and Israel has not agreed to completely withdraw from Gaza. These are just facts.

[-]

Tardosaur@reddit

When they say "agreed," they mean "agreed between Israel and US"

[-]

Drab_Majesty@reddit

yeah I just like forcing them to admit that.

[-]

I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

This issue is yet to be negotiated as part of the second phase

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Cynixxx@reddit

They won't fully retreat anyway

FTFY

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GothicGolem29@reddit

They won't let Gaza keep weapons the deal includes Hamas disarming so that will be what they push for

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lostinspacs@reddit

This deal is an overwhelming victory for Israel which is why the country is so happy.

I’m not sure Bibi has the clout to restart the war himself under these conditions. Maybe he’ll try.

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sBucks24@reddit

They'll demand every body back for religious burial purposes, which Hamas obviously can't do because Gaza is rubble. And they'll use that as an excuse to end the ceasefire.

Itll happen within the week, guaranteed

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flossdaily@reddit

Well, this is why you shouldn't kidnap people.

If I were them, I'd get to work with some shovels.

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Ala117@reddit

you shouldn't kidnap people.

the idf does that anyway.

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flossdaily@reddit

Arresting with judicial overview is not kidnapping.

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sBucks24@reddit

Wheres the judicial overview when they murder hostages in jail?

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flossdaily@reddit

Do you have a reputable source for whatever it is you're claiming?

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sBucks24@reddit

I actually went to get an article but the ones I know have been buried by the newest wave of Israel propaganda in the Google results. So rather than make myself mad sifting through BS; I'm going to do the sensible thing and call you the bot that you are and move on.

For anyone else, there wre literally protests in Israel TO RELEASE the guard (who was caught) raping a prisoner to death with an electric hot metal rod. That soldier faced no consequences.

This isn't even to speak about the literal countless Palestinians who've been tossed into cells based on "throwing rocks" charges that are then just never brought to trial!

But like i said, fuck off Zionist not

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Ala117@reddit

yeah, it's kidnapping but with different words to rationalize it.

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Wiinterfang@reddit

There's still other parts of the deal. Hamas disarmament, freedom and safe passage to any Hamas soldier who partaked in terrorists acts, installation of a temporary government with a British head (like before Britain sold the land to the Jews) and billions in aid/reconstruction.

I'm nervously awaiting every step but hopeful.

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psyopsagent@reddit

They announced that the IDF will destroy all the hamas tunnels. I'm wondering how they are planning to do this (maybe with a reeeeeeeeeeally big bomb?)

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)

They gonna continue the Palestinian genocide after this.

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

Most likely Israel will conduct periodic airstrikes similar in scale to those in Lebanon but I don't think they will relaunch a full fledged offensive

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I_Hate_E_Daters_7007@reddit

They will begin reneging on certain aspects of the agreement and carry out drone strikes to bolden the militias against Hamas which might in turn cause Gaza’s internal security to deteriorate , and Israel will achieve what it wants without breaking a sweat

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GianfrancoZoey@reddit

At the moment they’re hosting multiple gangs in the areas of Gaza that they still control, and have been pushing those to continue to kill people, especially those like journalists who resisted Israeli pressure to stop reporting.

This is doubly effective because they can use their killings (either the people they kill, or the collaborators themselves being killed) as a PR campaign so hasbarists can point and go ‘see! They kill each other even without Israel’ or say stuff like ‘let’s see how they blame Israel for this!’

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SajCrypto@reddit

Now get the Zionist state to release ALL the thousands of Palestinian hostages it holds in illegal detention, without cause or trial, sometimes for YEARS!! ...Men, Women AND CHILDREN!!

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Don't worry, Palestine is working on getting its best released.

Palestinian Prisoner Convicted of Raping and Murdering 13-year-old to Be Released as Part of Gaza Cease-fire Deal

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SajCrypto@reddit

Counter that with the countless Palestinian men, Women AND CHILDREN being tortured, beated and GRAPED in Israeli jails.

Heck! An Israeli prison guard graped a Palestinian man on CAMERA, got arrested and Israeli society protested and RIOTED to force his release.

A vile and evil society!

75% of JEWISH Israelis believe there are ‘no innocents’ in Gaza: Poll Survey by Hebrew University center shows growing extremism in Israeli society.

You cant say "its only a small amount of people" regarding the genocide, ethnic cleansing and war crimes; NOT ANYMORE.

The whole world has seen the truth about Israeli society.

The mass protests for their "right to continue raping Palestinian prisoners"
The secret Israeli groups on Telegram celebrating war crimes and horrific atrocities
The hordes of Israelis forcing the stopping of Aid entering Gaza
The Israeli parties celebrating the dropping of bombs in Gaza
The Israeli settlers murdering Palestinians, burning their homes, stealing their land and heck stealing their SHEEP
The eulogies at Israeli funerals where they weep for their dead "who enjoyed bombing homes and sniping children"
Bombing Palestinian homes to use as "gender reveal"
Destroying Palestinian villages and planting on top to destroy Palestinian history
Poisoning Palestinian water wells, search "Cast Thy Bread"

I could go on and on and on and on.

Like the world did with Germany after WW2 to deconstruct Nazism & re-educate Nazis, we will need to do the same for the whole of Israel and the evil belief of Zionism.

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Whatabout Israel, the only response to Palestine actively seeking to free a child rapist.

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celloh234@reddit

Hypocrisy of you by replying the original comment by a whatsboutism. The only response to israel unsjustly "arresting" torturing raping on the spot executinc and ethnic cleansing palestininans for the past 80 years

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

Israel has been raping Palestinians on the spot for 80 years? What are you talking about?

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celloh234@reddit

My balls.

Thats the most intellectual response you deserve

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McAlpineFusiliers@reddit

That's the most intellectual response you can come up with. Dial your Qatar handler, you need better talking points.

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celloh234@reddit

Not even close

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SajCrypto@reddit

Zionism is not just Israel—it goes far beyond that… 1. It is the largest network of bribery, corruption, influence-buying, and blackmail....the world has ever known.

It is the biggest oligarchic web of corruption in history, seizing control of decision-making centers—especially in America, Europe, and the West at large—operating silently and virally, with complete discretion.
near-total domination over Western media and exerts deep control over the direction of art and education worldwide, particularly in the West and in weaker nations.

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LanaDelHeeey@reddit

So what’s the awful ratio this time? 10:1? 20:1? 50:1?

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AirconGuyUK@reddit

A ratio that the Palestinians decide on.

Israel would love for it to be 1:1.

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BDOKlem@reddit

ratio in percentages instead of individual.

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callmejellydog@reddit

Ahh terrible news that Hamas and it’s support base are being appeased. Israel getting innocent civilians back is a good thing tho.

I suppose the silver lining is that Palestinians or their elected Death Cult terrorist government won’t be able to behave themselves for long and fighting will resume until the threat is eliminated 👍

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vapeshapes@reddit

Waiting anxiously for the news of Palestinian hostages released.

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BabylonianWeeb@reddit (OP)

20 Israeli hostages and all of them are IDF veterans while there's thousands of Palestinian hostages who didn't commit any crime.

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