Has anyone here made significant financial/quality of life sacrifices to move? Do you regret it?
Posted by Decent_End_5725@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 83 comments
I never liked my country (Russia), and I like it even less lately, for obvious reasons. I’ve lived abroad for most of my adult life and had to come back a couple of years ago. Sometimes living here feels downright miserable. I felt much more at home in Europe and really wish I could go back.
The thing is, I’m very financially secure here. I got a sizeable inheritance after my parents passed, and I could probably afford not to work for the rest of my life if I stay here, as everything is much cheaper here compared to Western Europe. So while yes, I dislike the local politics, culture, and people, staying here would be life on easy mode. If I wanted to move, I’d likely have to do so on an investor visa, which would mean selling everything that I own and moving with next to no savings, having to look for a job immediately, dealing with financial insecurity etc. It would likely mean a lower quality of life, too, as I wouldn’t able to afford as much as I can here. I’d do it if I were alone, but I have a family now with our first child on the way, which adds to my anxiety about the move.
Have you ever made a similar sacrifice while moving, and did you find it to be worth it? Or did you end up regretting it?
No_Engine1350@reddit
We made a financial sacrifice to move from India to Europe. We love it. Our savings potential has depleted to 20% of what it was in India. We do not regret it. What we gained is significant- that we couldn’t have gained in India, despite the huge income (clean and safe roads, access to competition free education, access to nature, no pollution, better footpaths to walk and roads to drive, no mosquitoes and dengue, where we live, my son doesn’t fall sick as often, we have access to excellent parks, no traffic, unadulterated pesticide free food, chicken without harmful injections- basically a corruption free society where I can trust the food labels).
We are in the westmost of western Europe. Our savings potential scares me but perhaps we will recover in sometime, once both of us work .
Regarding selling everything- we sold our one year old brand new car with 8000kms in India, bought a far worse car here which costed us more. We sold brand new excellent furnitures. I left a job of a lifetime- which people take years to crack. I left a pension which would never require us to save any money ever again.
I am still happy. I am worried but still, given a choice, I would not go back to India- not with any kind of money.
I could have left a decade ago. I stayed intentionally. It didn’t work out. So now I regret the delay- we could have had EU passport by now.
maryo_13@reddit
Honestly financial stability is a big component in living a content life. I left home for financial reasons but when I tell people where I'm from they're all flabbergasted that I picked up and left. Even ten years later people say WHY DID YOU LEAVE?! Basically my situation is opposite to yours, where I went to "worse" places because I didn't have the financial ability to take care of myself where I lived. I'd rather live somewhere people consider bad or less desirable if I can afford medical care.
Inspector-GadgetPT@reddit
Me every time I tell people I’m from Portugal and moved out to the north of Europe.
Portugal it’s an amazing country to live in, one of the best in the world IF you have money and financial stability, which unfortunately it’s not the case for the vast majority of people there, specially if you’re young.
The salaries are extremely low, the cost of living is very high (for locals), the market is so small there’s no way to have a career progression there, the country mentally is still stuck in the 1900s specially at a professional level. I can’t enjoy the amazing lifestyle there if I live paycheck to paycheck and sometimes not even that, it’s straight up despair cause the money it’s not enough to do anything.
And it’s the same with almost all southern European countries, Italy, Greece, even Spain. Amazing countries to live in but without money and proper financial stability (which is very hard to get there) is not worth it.
selfdowning@reddit
Hard relate as someone who moved from Italy to the US. People always asked me why I moved here when I lived in “much better places” according to them.
What I’ve learnt after living in four countries is that to live a good life, the place I live needs to have good prospects in my career. I also need a good supportive community of family/friends. Everywhere I’ve lived I’ve either had one of those things or none. Here I have both, and thats enough for me to survive, even though I don’t really like the US as a country and never imagined living here before.
No_Toe_7809@reddit
all southern eu countries are exactly like that…
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
If you exclude the cost of rent/mortgage, as housing seems very expensive over there, would you say the cost of living is still high? If someone owned their apartment/house and only paid for utilities and such, would they still struggle with the average salary there?
DemonCopperhead1@reddit
This. I pay out of pocket for everything and it’s killing me (literally) U.S. for medically necessary treatment for chronic conditions like neurological pain to the point I cannot sleep, eat or function like a normal human being and want to end it all when I’ve in the past had to save up money to go get seen finally for some relief and when I say relief I mean procedures, sleep apnea was diagnosed in 2022 and am just now being able to afford a dental appliance that’s costing $6,400 + the $2,000 it cost for additional x-rays & CT scan.
adventuressgrrl@reddit
Have you considered medical tourism? It can be cheaper to travel to other countries, and that’s including airfare. Nogales Mexico is just over the Arizona border and a lot of Arizonans go there for cheap, quality dental care.
DemonCopperhead1@reddit
I am definitely going to look into that I really appreciate you commenting I don’t think it’s a coincidence as someone in my local town found out about my health problems I was literally Born with and how much it was costing me as I was born with hyper thin gums, etc. and started having problems as early as I could remember despite getting regular cleanings every 6 months well they mentioned traveling to Egypt saying it was cheaper even with travel and it’s really sad how things have gotten
maritimer187@reddit
I think financial stability is honestly one of the biggest deciding factors when considering relocating. Especially for your average person. If you're someone with so much money you can survive anywhere then the decision obviously becomes much easier. But for your average Joe money matters.
Im Canadian and had the opportunity to relocate to New Zealand permanently which sounds great. No more winter, postcard scenery and infinite outdoor adventure. On paper for me it was a no brainer. I was in my early 20s at the time which would have been ideal for the move. I tried it for a year and loved it but ultimately my deciding factor to return home all came down to money. I was working the same profession I had at home but for 50% of the take home pay. My day to day lifestyle was impacted tremendously in a negative way.
reddit_tat@reddit
I’m confused about having a sizable inheritance but having to live with no savings. Even if your money would not last as long in the EU, you would still have savings, wouldn’t you? Also, I am confused about getting an investor visa but having to find a job. Doesn’t investor visa mean that you start a business? Or can you invest in someone else’s and then have to get a job? Do you work in a field with marketable skills in the EU?
It is said that at the end of life, what people most regret are the things they did not do, rather than the things they did. If you stay, will you always wonder what might have been? Even for your child?
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
The short answer is economic differences. The average salary where I live is $500 a month/$6k a year. Naturally, things are cheaper here than in Europe/the US, so the same amount of money goes a long way here.
Most of investor visas I’ve been looking at require investing in a business or buying property. I’d go with the later since it’d give my family a place to live, and investing in a business is always a risk. In order to buy a decent property I actually want to live in, though, I’d have to sell my property here as I can’t afford it otherwise.
crazycholesterol@reddit
I'm spanish. I have lived in Russia for couple of years and its a very nice place to live, even more so if you have enough wealth to enjoy life.
I could get the dilemma of moving to Thailand or the Dominican Republic to enjoy life or China if you want to see the future, but Europe? Check the safety level of Barcelona, Paris or London, they are not what they were. Everything has become expensive, we have in visible decadence and we are dilluting into a sea of hostile migrants. No good prospects. I would go to Russia if I could get a nice job, at least I wouldnt have to worry about my kids being taught the list of genders at school.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
Tbh I agree with you here. If there’s anything Russia has done right, it’s that it resisted unscientific nonsense like gender theory (made up by a child abuser, and he actually proved it was wrong himself but still pushed it into the masses). Not all “traditional values” are good IMO, there’s still a lot of misogynists and nationalists here, but the younger generation is slowly moving away from that, I feel.
Boetros@reddit
Have you looked at other places besides western Europe?
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I have. I’ve lived in China, the US, Brazil, England, Ireland, and Germany before. Western Europe is where I feel the most comfortable.
Daidrion@reddit
That's quite a list, how long have you spent in each? What's your take on them?
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I’ve only spent a significant enough amount of time (6 months and more) to comment in England, Ireland, and China. Well, the US, too, but I was 18 so basically still a child.
I liked London the most as I found life there to be the most convenient. Relatively peaceful, as long as you don’t go to shady areas, and it has everything one needs. Social services were working pretty well. It was expensive even back then (8 years ago), and finding a decent place to rent was hard; can only imagine how much worse things have gotten now.
Ireland felt like a big village, also pretty peaceful but the infrastructure wasn’t very developed, and the bureaucracy made everything take so long. Otherwise pretty similar to England, except Irish housing crisis seems to be much worse. Very friendly people with a great sense of humour, I made lots of friends there.
China felt like living in a fever dream, I’m still not sure if I liked it or not. I was able to earn the most there compared to my expenses, and at first it was fun, making new friends and exploring Shanghai, but then I found a stable job and settled into a routine, and I realised that living there actually felt pretty bleak, unless you go out of your way to surround yourself with people and find things to do. Or at least it was for me, because I felt totally disconnected from the local culture. In Ireland, even simply going to Lidl was often enjoyable, or taking a walk in a nearby park. Shanghai was just a confusing concrete jungle that made me feel trapped.
Competitive_End_6018@reddit
I'm from Canada but have lived in Taipei for years. I've had a pretty decent life her. The cost of living is fairly low (although going up!), we have universal Healthcare, it's safe, excellent public transportation, low taxes (not sure how they pay for all of this. Lol), but I'm moving back to Toronto in the summer. Toronto is one of the most expensive cities to live in in the world, I have no job lined up and the fairly decent uni esl job I have in Taiwan basically pays minimum wage in Canada. The only thing is, I don't want to grow old here. I'm 55, single, and have a small pension. Taiwan doesn't have much of a social safety net so I'm getting out of here while I'm still young enough to find employment back home. I may regret it but it's a risk I'm willing to take. Also, my family is there. It may be a terrible decision but I guess I'll find out!
legsjohnson@reddit
I had a house and guaranteed income (comfortable, not exorbitant) in my home country at the cost of any personal freedom as well as remaining somewhere that didn't suit me. I miss the 'finer' things sometimes but it's worth it to me.
Daidrion@reddit
Hm, what kind of personal freedoms did you lack in the US?
legsjohnson@reddit
The money and housing came with certain strings and expectations from the people providing it.
FunAdministration334@reddit
Yes, I made a significant financial sacrifice. I moved from the US to Germany and struggled for several years to get the same level of stability.
My take home pay is much lower than it would be back home, but I feel more secure given the healthcare system, social supports and amount of vacation time. No, I don’t regret it.
Hugs_Pls22@reddit
How did you move from the US to Germany though?
Creative-Platform658@reddit
Not yet, but I'm seriously leaning towards doing so next year. It's very scary, but staying may be far more dangerous. I feel like we should get out while we still can.
korsunk2@reddit
I'm Russian as well and I haven't liked my own country since childhood. Always dreamt of living in another place. Then I began travelling, got a remote job, lived in many, many countries — in some simply as a tourist, in some as a tax resident. I wanted to finally end up in EU and I did, changing several EU countries in past 4 years. And now I'm considering returning (though haven't decided yet). Life is not black and white.
- I still have a remote job but costs for housing (rent/buy) are high in Europe. I'm 37 yo and I dream of my own house on the land. In Russia it costs 80 000 EUR — or 10 000 for a piece of land to build. In Europe much, much more. And paying Western European rent and taxes for my remote job means I won't be able to accumulate wealth.
- Attempts to cancel my culture and language eventually lead to my realizing that I like them. It's truly cool to be able to express my opinion in a rich language in a dozen different ways. I speak two foreign languages but how much time will I spend before I reach the same level, before being able to understand local jokes and cultural references? Also, now I don't think that our people are somehow "terrible" in terms of communication. Grumpy, yes, but warm. I spent 27 years in Russia, I hitchhiked, I traveled, I climbed the mountains, and I have had endless moments when people went out of their way to help me — but I took it for granted.
- I found out it's hard to build a social circle in Western Europe. People are sweet but tend to stick with their folks. People in Russia, CIS, Balkans, Americas, on the opposite, are ready to include you and introduce you to their friends.
- I can't treat EU as "good" opposed to Russia after all those cancel culture things and sanctions aimed at Russians in order to get rid of Putin — with great arrogance that surrounded all the process. "You're punished, now go do the right thing — and I'll forgive you" — these things never work. Anti-Russian propaganda where war abominations have been raised to unhuman level also didn't help. If one is about to choose whether to accept both what their country did and what didn't, or to deny everything, there is basically no choice while any pride is left. Surprisingly, Israel has the right to bury Palestinian children under the ruins of destroyed buildings simply because "those terrorists began first and all Palestinians are natural-born terrorist". No one wanted to cancel Israel until recently Spain and France have raised their voices. I accepted that ethics does not play a role in politics: Russia is fighting for staying one piece of land not being torn by internal conflicts and without having NATO base nearby — and EU fights for staying one solid European Union not being torn by internal conflicts and being protected from the big and dangerous neighbour. All other things are secondary, even the amount of victims.
- I tended to avoid Ukrainians before the war for a lot of negative personal experience — but now it's hard to sympathize with them at all, after all I've seen in tg channels and fb groups for refugees, how they treat their own fellows and their host countries.
All the Russians I know are divided in a one-third percentage ratio: 1/3 left Russia, 1/3 stayed, 1/3 returned. To each his own.
P.S. Если будет желание, найди статью Лимонова "Разочарование". Мне кажется, характеризует и нынешнюю волну эмиграции.
Daidrion@reddit
Gee, I wonder, "а может что-то случилось?" And I'm not sure where you've been, but at least in Germany I've not experienced any cancel culture at all. No one bats and eye when someone speaks Russia, there are Russian concerts and events, and so on. Damn, I even saw soviet cosplayer freaks driving their Ladas and Volgas, waving the flags and all that. There also were literally Z demonstrations here.
A friend of mine comes to visit every now and then, others travel to the UK and Spain. I have friends and colleagues all over the EU and so far no one really complained about being mistreated, even those living in Eastern Europe. There are more restrictions, that's for sure. But again, let's not forget why it all started in the first place.
I agree that some of the things the EU / Western countries do are BS and not helping anyone (especially in the Baltics, but I can understand them, given their demographics and history with Russia). However, that's the case of "в своём глазу бревна не видеть", it's enough to take a look at what official пропагандоны say in Russia and how xenophobic the media has become.
Just what the hell is wrong with you? First, you avoided a fucking ethnicity because of some bad experiences, and now you can't sympathize with people whose country got literally invaded, just because you saw something on tg? And then you come here and complain about cancel culture?
You know, I think you really should return. You belong there. Ведь всё не так однозначно. Разочарование у него. Пиздец.
Daidrion@reddit
Hey, I'm also Russian. Was in a similar position (though no inheritance), moved to Germany.
Quality of life here is noticeably worse, the after tax income is about the same or worse compared to what I'd earn back home, at the same time everything is about twice as expensive and the service is very, very poor. And don't get even me started on the housing. On top of that, the ROI on what you'd expect to be financed from the absurd taxes, like public transport and healthcare are mediocre at best, not to mention it takes forever to do basic things due to bureaucracy.
At the same time, I've already applied for citizenship and generally feel myself quite secure here. I am able to save a decent amount of money (which is relative, of course), and if things continue at the rate they are, I think it'll turn out just fine as I don't feel like I've reached my ceiling yet, and there are more investment options compared to Russia. I plan on moving out somewhere else eventually too.
In the end, politics was the major driving force for my move in the first place. It's hard to say whether I regret it, I think I'd be miserable either way: worse CoL/QoL ratio + less financial freedom here vs all the shit that is happening over there. It's a pick your poison kind of situation.
JClementMD@reddit
Yes. Yes. No.
Educational_Life_878@reddit
Why are your only two options Russia and Western Europe?
There are plenty of other countries with cost of living closer to or even less than Russia. You’re choosing one of the most expensive regions of the world where you’ll have to make the most sacrifices. There are a lot of Russian expats in Southeast Asia for example. Or you could try the Balkans if it’s important to you to be in Europe. Latin America also has some cities that have very Spanish-style architecture and a similar feel walking around although there is more of a crime issue.
Personally I would not make the trade of a lifetime of financial security to move, but I’ve never lived in Russia and I don’t know how badly you want to leave. I would at least try to travel a bit first and see if there is maybe a cheaper country where you would be happy to live before you put all of your money into getting an investor visa.
Anony-mouse-007@reddit
I'd like to point out that most visa by investment is not a donation. There is quite often a return on that investment. So if set it up well, you should make money from the investment.
That said, I have not lived in Russia for many years now. While I loved it and feel some nostalgia for my life and friends there, I realize that I wouldn't want to live there now. So good luck with your choice!
Jen24286@reddit
I'm an American who immigrated to Germany. I sold two cars, my house, and almost everything I owned, and I took a 50% pay cut. I live in a one bedroom apartment and don't own a car. Life is good. You find out you don't need as much to be happy.
People talk about sacrificing money to move, well you don't actually need that money anymore. I sold everything when I moved, and I have very few expenses here, I've never had more money in my life, and I don't even have anything I want to spend it on.
hmich@reddit
"You'll own nothing and be happy".
Jen24286@reddit
You'll own less bullshit and be happy. The American dream is having so much money you buy a gigantic house in the middle of nowhere and you start collecting things that you think will make you happy. I can spend the weekend in the alps for less than people spend on a Labubu.
hmich@reddit
At least they have a dream. In Germany buying a house near a city is virtually impossible on an average salary.
hmich@reddit
Most EU investor programs are closed for Russia citizens anyway.
No-Theory6270@reddit
To be honest I don’t completely understand it. I get that Russia is a gloomy place and bully culture. I don’t know if you are young or old, if you or your kids could be sent to fight or be under threats. In that case leave Russia inmediatelly of course. But if that’s not the case, doesn’t money shield you from all the shit around you? I mean, objectively speaking Russia has one of the most fascinanting and wild nature places to visit. If politicals wasn’t that big of a problem, I know many people in Europe who would love to see it all. You can live your whole life visiting forests and eating great food, and sho cares what’s around you if you are with your money and your family? Technically speaking, you can still be connected with the West via VPN and Reddit.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
For me, it’s mostly 2 factors: 1) corruption is very widespread here, to the point that you often don’t feel safe. You know how many people in the US are afraid of and don’t trust the police, the very institution that’s supposed to protect them? It’s the same here, except it’s not only the police, it’s also the local government and the judicial system. 2) culture and people. Simply put, they both suck. Of course, there are exceptions and not everyone is awful, but I’ve lived in 6 other countries besides Russia, and nowhere else have I encountered so many rude, mean, narrow-minded, and self-absorbed people. So many things here are completely backwards. For example, let’s say a man cheated on his wife, and you witnessed it. Most people here would encourage you to say nothing to the wife, as “it’s none of your business” and “you shouldn’t be stirring up drama and ruining the family”. Once the wife founds out, she’d be furious at the affair partner for seducing her poor husband. It’s not his fault he was too weak to resist, that woman is just a snake and the real villain here. And it’s like that when it comes to many social issues.
I do agree that having money is a big advantage, and you can simply surround yourself with people you like and live the life you enjoy. That’s what I’ve been trying to do. But sometimes it becomes hard to ignore the overall suppressive atmosphere hanging over the country, and you do still need to interact with other people from time to time.
No-Theory6270@reddit
Without disclosing things that would make you unsafe, how do regular people experience police and other institutions abusing regular people? Is it that if you take the car they will stop you and ask for money? Do you need to interact with others that much? On the wife and husband drama parts, those issues of course I suppose are not your own issues and they would not disappear if you went elsewhere, they would still exist. I know it’s shit but there’s also a lot of other (different) shit in Western Europe that you have to accept as part of life. For me the clear separation line is physical violence and threats, to people and to property. If you have to pay bribes and they are always within a reasonable range I would take it as an extremely rudimentary form of wealth tax passed unto you. You’re still better off than most people economically speaking. I’m not trying to create moral equivalencies - Russian is shit. I’m just thinking that mental strength and perceptions take you a long way. There’s some issues in my own culture that I “irrationally” dislike and over-react when I’m exposed to them. I believe the brain sometimes makes one feel more threatened by things that were a danger during your childhood. This happens with family too. I know one person who cannot stand his own father talking. I know the father and my friend. Of course there’s things about the father that I dislike (like with anyone), but those attitudes do not affect me at all because he is not my father. You know what I mean? Your brain can trick you into overreacting.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I get what you mean, and I agree 100%.
Most of the corruption here is people expecting bribes for basic things. For example, you’re building a house and need the local electrical company to connect it to the grid. You go their office and pay all the fees, and then they say that they’re swamped with work, so you’ll have to wait 2-3 years…unless you pay them $1000 (the average salary here is $500), in which case they’ll get it done next week. I also know some people whose lives were made much harder by the local government simply refusing to do their job unless you bribe them. My friend is currently homeless because the local gov refuses to give her an apartment that they’re legally obligated to pay for (hers got destroyed by the flood, which happened because the local infrastructure couldn’t handle floods, which they knew about for years and did nothing about it).
My family got majorly screwed over by corruption, we got our property taken away because somehow powerful liked it and had the power to take it, essentially. But these days, it’s much harder to pull a con of that scale. Most bribes are indeed something that I can handle.
nurseynurseygander@reddit
Can you learn to live with some of that by conceptualising it differently? Like, for that sort of everyday corruption accessing goods and services, where it’s basically driven a lot by labour prices being lower than what people really need to feel adequately rewarded, could you think of it less as a bribe and more like a tip? I know it’s kind of splitting hairs but could you reconcile enough of it that way to stay?
Ok_Knowledge_6800@reddit
Can I ask where in Russia you live?
And is a comfortable life for you a detached house with land, or a high rise apartment? If I had a house and land to grow food and could switch off from social media and the rest of the world, and raise my child in nature - I'd stay put. But if you're still in an apartment in a mediocre Russian city, then I'd move. Just personal preference I guess.
I'm just curious :)
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I live in a detached house (which is rare in Russia; most people live in apartments) with absolutely breathtaking nature around me. I do enjoy the nature a lot, but I’d also like to be close to good schools and hospitals, having many options nearby when it comes to hobbies and entertainment etc. Sadly, it’s not possible to have both here, you have to sacrifice one or the other, so we live in what’s essentially a village, with the nearest (small) city half an hour away. I hated living there as a kid, I was lonely and bored most of the time. I can appreciate the peace and quiet as an adult, but I’d like to give my kid a good social life that I lacked, so that’d mean moving to the city.
Boo_Hoo_8258@reddit
In from the UK and my husband is Norwegian he has the better paying job but I had a career, I ended my career thinking I may be able to get a part time job to hey bu while learning the language, not only am I struggling to learn the language but I may never work again as the job market here is so stringent and they prefer Norwegian people even if you learn the language unless your name is Norwegian sounding you will struggle unless the government gives stipends to the business to hire foreigners.
I've grown to hate it here and even if I went back home now id struggle to find work, it feels so hopeless.
wowowhat@reddit
this is my nightmare 😭😭
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I’m sorry to hear that. I have friends that immigrated to Norway to escape the war, and they’re struggling as well. It seems like one of those countries that are comfortable to live in if you’re born and raised there, but the barrier of entry is higher for foreigners.
I’ve lived in a few countries where I didn’t speak the local language well. Everything genuinely feels so much harder when you can’t understand anything going on around you. I’ve also lived in Ireland while being surrounded by people who didn’t speak a lick of English. They found life there very stressful, while I found it a breeze. Idk if that makes things seem any brighter now, but once you learn the language, I can promise you you’ll enjoy your life there a lot more. Trying to understand the local culture and adapt to it also goes a long way. Most people in my surroundings who really struggled seemed like they weren’t ready to accept on some visceral level that they’re in a new place now with new customs and unspoken rules. They’ve tried to continue their lives as they’ve lived them in their home country, and that led to a lot of frustration and resentment when things didn’t work out the way they expected them to. I’m not saying this is necessarily your case, but it might be something worth considering.
Boo_Hoo_8258@reddit
I honestly get it, I originally didn't want to leave the UK and I was quite stubborn on it but my the boyfriend of over a decade now husband proposed and I kind of fell into the flow, I do love him to bits and I appreciate all his support but this place does not feel like home for me even after 2 years.
Absolutely stunning place to visit would recommend hands down but living here is a completely different kettle of fish.
wagdog1970@reddit
So many places are wonderful to visit but not to live. I feel like your story could be my own only my wife is Swedish and I’m trying to learn the language and fit in to what feels to me to be a very insular society.
Boo_Hoo_8258@reddit
Yeah although Norwegians are generally called anti social they are generally very nice people, you smile at a stranger on the street they'll smile back and greet you.
cest-moi-qui-conduis@reddit
I'm sorry to hear of your situation... Has this caused a lot of stress between you two? Where do you realistically see your future?
Boo_Hoo_8258@reddit
Luckily for me my husband is extremely supportive and is trying his best to help me, we are thinking the norskkurs is not helping as I don't find myself learning anything there and we are going to try home learning to see if that helps.
cest-moi-qui-conduis@reddit
That's the language school?
I'm in a somewhat similar situation in France. Became quickly disillusioned with the French university classes. My husband is understanding especially from his own experiences with the University for his degree.
Luckily my French is a B2 so we're getting to the point where we can discuss most things in French and not feel relationship sacrifice. So we've recently started speaking only French together. If that's possible for you I highly recommend it - even if it's just speaking the language at certain times of day when your brain is most on. Feels awkward at first but it gets better.
Otherwise my own self study includes a grammar book I bought, a notebook to record new grammar, phrases, and words, and reading lots of French reddit.
Sending courage, I totally get it...
Boo_Hoo_8258@reddit
Yeah it's the language school but because they go at such a fast pace to get Ukranians the basics it's like bam bam bam and I struggle to keep up as I e not learnt a language before and in in my 40s now so it's not helping my appreciation for it.
cest-moi-qui-conduis@reddit
That's the language school?
I'm in a somewhat similar situation in France. Became quickly disillusioned with the French university classes. My husband is understanding especially from his own experiences with the University for his degree.
Luckily my French is a B2 so we're getting to the point where we can discuss most things in French and not feel relationship sacrifice. So we've recently started speaking only French together. If that's possible for you I highly recommend it - even if it's just speaking the language at certain times of day when your brain is most on. Feels awkward at first but it gets better.
Otherwise my own self study includes a grammar book I bought, a notebook to record new grammar, phrases, and words, and reading lots of French reddit.
Sending courage, I totally get it...
Some-Entertainer-250@reddit
I think you need to think about it twice and make sure that if things go south, you have an exit plan. I mean a real one in place. Truthfully, given what you've described, I don't see the point of moving elsewhere if the end result would be to be more miserable or, best case scenario, being fine but way less secure than before. Coming back to my first sentence, you said that you would sell everything you own and have no savings anymore. That sounds like a foolish plan. My advice: Stay put.
sevinaus7@reddit
Yes. I earned significantly more before emigrating.
I'm much healthier and safer now.
Hard to put a price on that.
10/10 would do again.
space_kittity@reddit
Russian here, living in Europe. Do you really want your kid(s) to grow in that toxic environment? For me it was the main reason to move, even though it took a lot and honestly was a great personal sacrifice in many ways. But looking at my kid growing up here, thriving in a Dutch school and speaking three languages, I know that I did the right thing.
kittycatparade@reddit
Most countries offer a passive income/retiree visa for people with substantial savings or passive income. If you can qualify for that, you wouldn’t have to sell any of your assets
princesspomway@reddit
7 years ago I moved to Europe from Canada to be with my then long distance boyfriend. I had a pretty good job out of school and my family is pretty well off from our family business. I left because my family is toxic af and I figured I needed the space to live my own life. I struggled to find even a waitressing job for months and dealt with all sorts of cultural shocks but I grew my career, met some wonderful people and committed to my relationship. Now I live in NL and am moving back with my now husband and baby. Finances hit us hard after the tech bubble burst and I have to think of the future for my kid.
I don't regret it because I'm a different person now. I think if I had stayed I would have easily became wealthier with more assets but I wouldn't have been happier. It's also good to know what you don't want in life.
Meanie_Dogooder@reddit
I was in a similar situation twice. Once I chose the more adventurous option (it worked out), the other time, with the family in tow, I chose a safer option (the jury is still out but the way it’s looking now, that was the wrong choice). Try to keep your options open for as long as you can. Can you come back if things don’t work out overseas? I bet you can. So that’s good. I do think that taking a risk is not a bad idea if you hedge your bets, and have something to fall back on in the worst case scenario.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
That’s a good mindset, and what I’m trying to force myself to accept. I’m somewhat worried about how things don’t seem to get much better here and the war keeps going on, but at the same time, I don’t see a way out right now that wouldn’t put a significant financial strain on my family. Things might get better and more opportunities might arise in the future, though.
Meanie_Dogooder@reddit
Things might get better or worse, this is unknowable and the best you can do is just to assume things will continue to be the way they are. The other important question is, where do you want your child to grow up? What nationality do you want him or her to be? Your children will be a different nationality than you if they grow up somewhere else unless you move to a country drastically different to your own (eg, China, in which case they can keep their Russian roots for longer)
New_Criticism9389@reddit
If you have money and dislike Russia, you have other options besides Europe. Many Russians in Buenos Aires now, for example, and unlike places like Georgia or Bali or Sri Lanka, locals don’t resent them. Residency is fairly easy to get (I think enrolling in Spanish language class is enough), especially compared to EU countries, and Buenos Aires has a similar vibe to Western Europe (at least in the nice parts where you’d likely be).
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
Since you have plenty to live on until you die, you have time to ride out this era. Eventually Russia will be considered okay again when all of this is over. People that say otherwise are either too young or too dumb to know of when the Soviet Union collapsed and then was considered completely normal from 2000 until literally 2013/2014/2022.
Otherwise, you could look at immigrating to a country with a similar strength currency that also maintains a good relationship with Russia. Such as Turkey, Thailand, South Africa, and some select South American nations.
Your choice though. Sounds like your life is fine.
Out of curiosity, are you in one of the big 2 cities? I know Moscow is super baller compared to the rest of Russia. Was just curious if you are able to live comfortably for the rest of your life in one of the big 2.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
No, I’m from a small city. Moscow is a whole other world compared to the rest of Russia indeed. I wouldn’t be as comfortable there as I am in my current place, but would still fare better than average. The infrastructure there is great, and the quality of life is potentially much higher. We’re actually considering moving there once the child is born and a bit older if we end up staying in Russia.
I agree with you that the current political era will be over eventually. I do see the cultural shift happening as well, as the young Russians are becoming more “westernised”. Another reason I’m considering the move that I didn’t mention in the post is that I’m afraid that the war will keep dragging on, and Russia might find itself behind another Iron Curtain.
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
If that's the case, Mongolia and China are definitely options. Consider visiting those countries and seeing how it is like there. Plenty of Russians immigrate over and do very well.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I’ve actually lived in China for half a year. I think many Russians like it because they get treated well there as all foreigners do, and it’s very similar to Russia, and therefore it’s easy for them to adapt. Both are slowly moving towards becoming dictatorships. It’s why I like Western Europe the most, it’s pretty much the opposite of Russia.
ImmortalGaze@reddit
China and Russia are “slowly” moving towards becoming dictatorships? If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, “slowly moves” like a duck, it is essentially a duck..
Tinchen_in_london@reddit
As a fellow Eastern European I’m a bit surprised that you haven’t sorted out your citizenship elsewhere before moving back to Russia. Also, it’s not as black and white as you described and there are multiple visa options open, if you have enough assets, not just the investor visa.
HVP2019@reddit
Why do you think your assets are safe? What if you donated to Navaly organization 10 years ago? What if your wealth came from “fraudulent” privatization of 1991 and now this needs to be fixed as per recently passed law. What if someone reports you for something and your connections aren’t sufficient to shield you?
You and I remember history of USSR. Not mild 80 but earlier times. No?
FoggyPeaks@reddit
Questions I might ask:
1 how secure are your investments? Given that I’ve seen Russian instability wipe out more than one fortune in the past decades - and the Soviet Union managed to do this as well.
2 how old are you?
3 are you a builder, or are you content to enjoy what you have and not strive for more?
4 how do you define quality of life? Russia is better than it was in a material sense, but it’s no tropical paradise.
5 what is your family situation?
6 how important to you is your country’s political situation?
I’m sure there are more, but these would drive my choice. I’d think of this as an investment - you commit capital up front, and evaluate the ROI. Right now you’re doing the lifestyle equivalent of investing in bonds (and perhaps are in fact as well).
bandaladin@reddit
i have similar situation with you. i did move and the adjustment has been very slow and painful. partly due to massive differences from culture, climate, food, lower standard of basic services but at tripple or more than tripple of the cost back at home. also i didnt realize making friends and social life will be so challenging.
but everytime i feel i couldnt take it anymore and i will go back and each time, after a month or two being at home i couldnt wait to return. here life is more stable and orderly. basic needs are higher in quality. i focus on needs not wants. ofc sometimes i miss my old lifestyle and conveniences but its like a trap and distraction to what really matter in the long run.
especially now that you have a child to consider... it may make a bigger impact long term
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
Yeah… My brother is strongly considering moving because his child is being essentially brainwashed with pro-war and pro-Russia propaganda at school.
RidetheSchlange@reddit
being drafted into the military and dying in Ukraine isn't a motivation to leave on your own terms?
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
I’m a woman, so I wouldn’t be drafted, and my husband is excluded from the draft.
RidetheSchlange@reddit
So you guys are politically connected.
Then maybe if living in a fucked country you claim to detest so much is so bad, you can leave, but it looks like you are among the few people there that are connected enough to still be isolated from shortages and other shit. So maybe the money is more important than having possibilities and in that case, you answered your own question that money is more important than being free.
Decent_End_5725@reddit (OP)
We are not. In fact, my parents have suffered majorly from corrupt politicians, judges etc before passing away. Idk why that was your first assumption. Some people are just not medically fit for military service.
RidetheSchlange@reddit
The question is do you then want to live free with less or no money or suffering from corrupt politicians and with money?
It truly is a binary question. Then if it's the first one, then you have to deal with the fallout of russians being more or less blocked from settling in most of the world unless exceedingly rich.
Redcarpet1254@reddit
Oh get off your high horse. You were called out for having a completely wrong assumption about someone and now just deflecting that with more unrelated question.
Not everything needs to be politically based.
palbuddy1234@reddit
I think in my experience with having and not having money is that money creates options to problems. If you have little money, you have smaller options to fix problems. If you have more money, often times you can just buy yourself out of an issue that your facing. Naturally there are limitations in certain countries and it can't buy yourself out of certain problems you are facing. You can't buy friends, you can't buy yourself out of culture shock, and you can't buy your kid feeling loved.
I have experienced with the developing world, and many people that are used to the creature comforts that their money and influence affords them find it difficult to adjust to a normal lower/middle class developed world life. Many of their options they used to have, don't really solve the problems anymore. Would it bother you if your kid went to a public school, taking a bus like everyone, ate normal food etc.? What if your spouse worked and you worked and you could spend fewer hours with your kid? Would your spouse accept 'we can't afford that for the kid right now'? Would that make you feel bad? Maybe your family from Russia would assume you were successful in your new country, and started asking for money, avenues for a visa, asking for favors as you now made it out? Can you easily tell them 'no' and have them accept it? Would you feel shame if you had a lower status job and less free time then them? Would you have a relative that would guilt you into getting them into your country and staying with you while really not understanding that you can't afford for him/her to be with you?
Naturally the choice is a personal one, this is just stuff that came to mind.
BB-TG@reddit
I’ll be making that sacrifice in a few months :D
I live in a third-world country and earn remotely, so I can live pretty comfortably here, but it’s still not a great place. You can get arrested over a Facebook comment, and it’s not safe at all.. Horrible crimes on a daily basis.
I’ve been saving for a year and plan to apply for a bachelor’s in Czechia. It’s going to cost a lot(English-Taught), and I’ll be counting every euro instead of spending freely like I do here. My ultimate goal is to stay in Europe long-term… hopefully I can land a job and make it work.
Captlard@reddit
Life is not a practice and is a continuous adventure.
Will you be happy with your stable life? On your death bed..would you look back with contentment for who you are, what you did and the memories and legacy you left behind?
Financial security is one aspect of life. An important one, but not the only one.
There are so many countries out there: https://www.passportindex.org/passport/russian-federation/
FrauAmarylis@reddit
Sounds like you should stay. You have more to lose by moving.