Help me talk my wife out of taking out a 120k loan for flight school
Posted by LeatherFruitPF@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 187 comments
My wife, over the summer, spoke with a near retired woman pilot on one of her deadheads and at some point in that conversation the pilot told her it’s never too late to become a pilot.
Since then she’s become consumed with the idea of pursuing a career as an airline pilot. When she went on a discovery flight and got to fly a plane for herself, it solidified it and now she’s completely tunnel visioned from that high. And now she will do anything to achieve the dream. She wants no distractions because she’s in her mid 30s and wants it ASAP.
I support her dream to fly. I absolutely do not support her intended means to do it. I don’t know what kinds of loans exist for flight school, but I’d imagine they are predatory with double digit interest rates over 10-20 years and she’d end up paying well over double the borrowing amount, and basically no safety net, no job guarantee, and a high likelihood she might not even make it through an accelerated program. Fuck. That.
Would she even be approved for a loan that massive? Her credit score is mid 600s and she has a car and student loans as well. She’s a flight attendant making 40k/yr, while I’m a first year accountant making just under 60k/yr. And I refuse to co-sign that kind of loan that has a high potential to financially ruin us if even one small fuck up occurs in or out of her control. She can do everything right and there’s no guarantee we won’t be in a mess.
I’ve tried to explain all this to her but she keeps reassuring me that it will all be worth it in 7-10 years when she’s finally making six figures. She wants to go all the way rather than a modular route that I suggested (save up for a PPL first, then go from there), because she’s convinced she’s running out of time considering airline pilots must retire at 65 and she “needs” to be an airline pilot for 20 years.
She’s so fixated on the reward that it’s basically cope to avoid considering the real risks. Far too many risks and too little guarantees. I never thought in all our years together she’d be this reckless towards a goal, and I hate that I’m the sole voice of reason among all her friends and aviation colleagues encouraging her to chase the dream.
Gandor@reddit
If she’s committed enough to take our massive loans she should be committed to so the following before even stepping into an airplane:
0) Get a first class medical. 1) Enroll her in a ground school. 2) Pass the PAR written test 3) Pay out of pocket part 61 until solo 4) Decide at this point if you you want to full send this.
PK808370@reddit
Great plan!
WestNo5439@reddit
I would like to add. There are hundreds of schoolarships geared toward female pilots. If she truly is serious after her solo, she should start applying. Also she doesn’t have to do a big school to be “accelerated” she just needs to find a CFI that can do it fast it will be cheaper
Terrific_Paint_801@reddit
Also if she’s committed to flying… she’s probably reading this herself. Just saying she is probably already an airplane junkie (like us).
A10thundercunt@reddit
I agree with this 100%. Also she can explore scholarship offers and possibly an airline pathway program. Women in aviation and other groups like the 99’s have scholarships she can apply for. Many avenues to explore.
cpt_dad@reddit
awesome answer mate
DataGOGO@reddit
Outstanding advice.
fountainsofvarnoth@reddit
Best advice in here.
And…is she ready to pay back that loan while working as a FA when the pilot “shortage” dries up completely? Nothing is a sure thing in this industry.
Awkward-Can-997@reddit
I agree with this 100%. In addition, look into the AACA cadet academy, if accepted they guarantee a job (assuming you can pass training) offer a decent loan (everyone is at 5.9% apr, not great but very good in comparison to other loans right now) and if she’s an AA FA then she can do a leave of absence so there job security in case training does not work out.
HopefulSection9918@reddit
AACA cadet here and I’m personally a fan of the program I can vouch for that
Awkward-Can-997@reddit
Nice! I used to be an AA FA and the AACA program is just such a good strategy. Theres just no beating the job security, more than anything else, but also keeping health insurance and flight benefits and decent loan is a no brainer. I would not have taken the risk without those safety nets. Hope your journey has been good so far!
RestaurantMajestic43@reddit
This is the perfect advice from Gandor. I’m finishing up my ppl and will have done it out of pocket and in under 4 months. I’m also working full time and doing a bachelors degree in finance at the same time. If she’s committed she’ll make it work without risking your financial future. The amount of risk in this career path is far too much to take out a loan that will leave you paying 1-1.5k a month
International_Angle6@reddit
I agree with this also. Make sure she's committed, medically qualified, and has what it takes to fly an airplane. If that all checks out, I don't have a problem with loans to get it done relatively quickly. The problem with the modular approach is it just isn't efficient. Two steps forward and one step backward. The career isn't for everyone, but it is a good one for the right person.
Motifated@reddit
This is a really good strategy. A lot of people never make it to their first solo.
Antique-Kitchen-1896@reddit
Yeah I mean maybe have her list to this:
https://youtu.be/dgc2Wh4cOgo?si=ABCIaKoNIuSAr5-r
Not common but it happens.
Also I she actually ready for it all after looking at the constant stream of general aviation crashes and fatalities? I tell myself this is it when I advance the throttle for takeoff cause you are never sure 100% you’ll be back.
That all said, you kinda have to give her a way or you are going to have to decide it doesn’t work for both of you now. My wife still doesn’t fully admits she’s happy with having kids and if I am honest rolling back the clock I’d rather have gone for the flying career. We might both be saying in own head at times what ifs. This is just natural with life choices you can’t remake and can’t know exactly what your life would have been like otherwise. She will not forgive you IMHO in 5-10 years time when other things as life tends to do do, makes life harder. See above about kids, that takes a lot of effort by parents but more of it falls on the woman. She’ll look at her life post kids and wonder.
tz55@reddit
You're not being unsupportive you’re being realistic. Dreams are great, but $120k at double-digit interest isn’t.
StopLeading@reddit
I know several flight attendants who continue working their job and do their part 61 flight training on the side.
D__D21@reddit
Has a buddy who kept his flight attendant job all throughout his training and just got his CFI literally 3 days ago. Took him total less than 2 years and that’s with a 8months of him being burnt out and taking a break till just restarting and finishing CFI
Effective-Scratch673@reddit
Took him 1 year and 4 months from 0 to CFI while also having a full time job ? Can you confirm that or is that just your buddy talking?
bottomfeeder52@reddit
only way I see that is if he’s doing some accelerated courses for the later ratings. just getting to 250 would take 1.5 years flying 2-3 times a week
D__D21@reddit
Let me correct since actually adding the months it took him basically 2 years on the dot. I can confirm cause I was his CFI lol. He started fall of 2023 private was done in 2/3 month and same with instrument. Commercial he time built like crazy and was done around total 9ish months around spring/summer of last year. He ended up getting burnt out and dreading the ground for CFI and went MIA for like 9months till slowly starting CFI till I’d say this spring but actually full force around July and just took checkride couple days ago. He did all his training while keeping his flight attendant job. Though while he is relatively senior as a flight attendant so he was able to make his schedule work. He also did get financial aid from a relative to help him accelerate his training. But his training was all done at a 61 school and prob only costed him around my guess 60k but that’s me truly guessing. Honestly could’ve been cheaper. He did all training in a 150 and I didn’t up charge him as a CFI much for ground training. He split time all for instrument and commercial time building. My big point is you can do your training effective and cheap if you do it correct and not go to a 141 expensive mill. You honestly can sometimes go quicker at smaller 61 schools where you’re not fighting for plane availability like some mills while doing it for wayy cheaper.
D__D21@reddit
To add the time building to 250 he started while in instrument. All our instruction flights for instrument were 50nm cross countries as we did approach’s at airports on the way back. Even in private we did longer lessons of 3/4 hour blocks doing typically 2ish hours flight time. Once he got to commercial he’d typically do long rentals in the evening with instructors at the school splitting time typically several days of the week. Again he was senior enough as a flight attendant to give himself the time off as needed
Capi2806@reddit
Bro, how old are you friend?
D__D21@reddit
He’s 32? I think, early 30 at least so he’s close to 10 years seniority
zcar28@reddit
If the FA is only working 12-15 days a month it could be possible.
Av619@reddit
I did all 5 ratings in a year and 10 months and I took 3 months off on accident because my school didnt have an aircraft… and I worked too… mine was fast ish… but I saw another guy do it in 12 months flat!
Tight_Advisor_1742@reddit
That’s what I’m doing can’t recommend it enough
teamcoltra@reddit
I know a couple people who were working at QX and the company paid for their flight school while they continued working their ramp job. Might be worth at least asking if there's something similar.
JK-Forum_Loser@reddit
Lmao she looked at ATPs website huh?
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Unsecured Flight training Loans
Find my other posts:
ATP Flight School
College Aviation Programs
Using Unsecured Financing (Debt) to Fund Flight Training (Part 1)
Thanks to u/TXAggieMike for editing my original comment!
You can find an up to date version of my post here on my profile.
USING UNSECURED LOANS FOR FLIGHT TRAINING — Please Don’t.
So it has always been your dream to be an airline pilot? AWESOME!! And now you’re ready to take on the training to achieve that dream? WONDERFUL!!
But you’ve just realized that achieving that dream and doing the required trining comes with a big price tag. So now you’re considering using a loan (aka debt) to fund that training.
Sure…. but you need make certain you’re thinking beyond the dream and considering some reality.
Many folks in this subreddit will say the same thing: avoid flight training debt at all costs. Let's examine why.
Starting with the numbers:
Many flight schools offering a “Zero to Hero” program advertise a cost for the program of $100,000 to $120,000. This takes you from Private pilot to flight instructor (typically 250-300 hours of flight experience). (don’t forget you need 1,500 to be eligible for Airline Transport Pilot). It may also include certification for Commercial Pilot-Multiengine Land. Maybe even Multi-Engine Instructor.
For our illustration and our discussion, let’s plug into a debt calculator $120,000.00, 15% interest, and a 10 year term length. The results are:
Using a loan to pay for your dream and your training just to get started in aviation will cost you A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS!. That is million with a very big M.
Some additional things to know….
So beyond the dreamy idea of “I want to be a pilot and fly for a living....”,
Now let’s say you get the loan, trained hard, obtain your certification to be a flight instructor, and got really lucky to find a job at a flight school. (FYI: don’t fall for the sales pitch that the flight school you trained at will hire you as an instructor. Unless you posses a signed contract saying they will do that, it’s likely they won’t. Most likely you finish their program and need to find employment.)
In the 2025 world, finding employment as a very low time instructor is very difficult.
Anyway, you’re employed. And you have a $2,000 a month loan payment to make. And you need to pay rent. And you need to buy gas for the car. Oh, and you want to eat too, yes?
Again, let’s work the details and the numbers:
Oh, and that’s just the average. Did you consider the months, such as winter, where you are not flying hardly at all? No flying means no income. And you still must make the $2000 payment.
And we’re not touching on what it costs to live in different regions like expensive California or the Atlantic Seaboard.
Looking at this closer, after taking on that training debt—can you even afford to exist? Looks like you need to find a second, maybe a third job... just to exist.
What are you going to do if you lose your flying job and maybe your other income? Even with no income, you still gotta repay that $2000 per month.
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Using Unsecured Financing (Debt) to Fund Flight Training (Part 2)
Let’s wrap up with some additional reading and examples:
This post from covers an example where $30,000 was borrowed for instrument flight training. The borrower wound up repaying $116,000 just for his instrument certificate.
This post discusses the results of borrowing $70,000 and was surprised by an additional $15,000 fee.
This post shows someone borrowing $123,000 for a flight training program. And the terms of the loan mean their training would cost them more than double that amount.
Think Sallie Mae is the answer? Check out this post and what $125,000 of training debt was going to cost the student.
Your dream to become an airline pilot is admirable and a good one. But we want to make sure you are not stuck in the dream world and are being provided with some down to earth information on the realities of using debt to fund flight training. And as a result, make some really bad financial decisions.
Yes, using debt to fund a dream can work for some. But for many, and possibly you, it can take a wonderful dream and create a very cruel financial nightmare with a massive payment you are not able to make. Please consider how you fund your flight training wisely.
Thank you for reading this far…. Here are some other topics that I wrote that may interest you:
ATP Flight School
College Aviaiton Programs
Thanks again to u/TXAggieMike for editing my original post. I'm finally updating the main post I made for others to reference any updates to.
_zarathustra@reddit
This is a great post, but what's the recommended path that doesn't use unsecured loans?
RaiseTheDed@reddit
Other loans that one can get: home equity/HELOC, federal student loans (when paired with a college program). I wouldn't recommend taking out a loan for the entire program cost. It just comes down to saving and using food financial sense. There are also scholarships available, aviationstart.org has a list.
TxAggieMike@reddit
I’m am hearing not only a desire for common sense, but also some “happy wife happy life” concerns.
I applaud her wanting to start, but jumping complying the deepens with no plan and future outlook being pretty bleak is foolish.
Talk with her about a compromise to just do the first step only, Private Pilot, and do so without loans or debt.
The posted drop out rate from private Pilot is about 80%. And I would likely be correct that nearly all of those were individuals who, like your wife, became enamored with the end results of the dream, but had not put any consideration into what it takes to make it.
By her agreeing to do just PPl for now, that allows the both of you to ease into what it takes to achieve the long goal without over commitment.
Once she has earned her certification, the Family Board of Directors can meet again to discuss next steps for her journey.
If the decision is to not continue, then you can celebrate PPL and the fact you’re not in serious debt.
Fazzamania@reddit
No need to commit the whole amount. Take the modular route. That way you only commit funds as you go. If there’s a problem along the way, you haven’t better house, literally. Best to get flying and see if she likes it. Need a Class 1 medical as well. Can complete ground school at a fraction of the cost of the hours building. If she gets through that, she can start borrowing money to proceed.
Fess_ter_Geek@reddit
Some of those loan programs are incremental. You don't get the full monty up front.
Chewyarms@reddit
32 - doing the same. However paying out of pocket.
Spent a year saving/studying/and we downsized our house to invest some of the funds for training and live abit cheaper. I fly 3 days aweek and that is plenty. I would advice not flying 5 days a week. There is a lot of studying its basically like going back to college. It's not just fly the plane and mess around.
I would atleast get through her private license at the cheapest school around completely out of pocket. 10k to 12k depending on location.
Fly 3 days aweek study on your days in-between and work when you can.
odie313@reddit
I would suggest getting a consultation first before going in for a certified medical. You want to make sure you can breeze right thru without any setbacks. Look for past posts by u/TxAggieMike he has some great write ups
On YouTube watch videos from Pilot Kaity. She has videos showing the path she took to go from "zero to ATP" for $35k.
Good luck to your wife on her journey.
GotTools@reddit
Not a pilot, but my college was half pilots. The two things they told me when I said I was interested in that career:
Z123z567@reddit
1) Its usually futile to try to talk anyone out of anything. 2) Going into big debt for any educational process with hopes of making great money later is very risky. Lots of doctors working 80!hrs a week to try and pay off their huge school debt. 3) Never ever pay a flight school lots of money in advance, usually to secure a better rate. These people are operating on money they have yet to earn. A few bad quarters or a loss of life crash, and they are done, and your money is gone. 4) Don’t be in such a god damned hurry to rush through flight training. Learning to fly is a magical, transcendent, and transformative experience. Do it at a normal pace. Stay employed, fly two or three times a week. 5) Find a small mom and pop flight school or an individual who takes your “project” seriously. 6) Read my book, available for free on Substack, and find an instructor who understands the concepts I write about. Doing so will save you thousands of dollars and a lot of time as you learn.
https://open.substack.com/pub/charlesmcd789
DoctorWhiskey@reddit
Credit mid 600's.....ooof. That alone leads me to believe she's not the best at financial decisions and goes off of impulse a lot. Good luck, OP.
Tight_Advisor_1742@reddit
Part 61 is gooder so do that
monkeyman4250@reddit
As long as she is ready to 100% commit, do It.
You can just not pay back the loan. Screw the credit score for 7 years
SirERJ-Driver@reddit
She should really get her private pilots license first before doing anything else. Go to a part 61 mom ‘n pop school and get that done. That will let her measure her own aptitude for flying.
For some people, flying comes naturally and it’s easy. For others, it takes a lot of extra effort. And some people unfortunately were just never meant to fly. Your wife doesn’t know what her aptitude for this is yet, and it’s imperative she figures that out before going full send with loans.
Every pilot in this subreddit probably knows a few people who took out loans and then found out later that they just really weren’t meant to fly. Something just wouldn’t click for them. It’s like God just didn’t build them for it. No matter how much they train or study, they just don’t get it. It’s very sad. It’s even more sad when this happens and they’re now over $100K in debt and can’t get a job to pay it off.
If loans are what it takes to get the job done, that’s fine. The income potential over time vs the cost of the loan makes sense, even with your wife being in her mid 30s. Seniority is everything and it can be worth it to shave a few years off training to get to the airlines sooner, and have more time on the back end of the career as a mainline captain making over 250k a year.
SciFlyPi@reddit
“I don’t know what kinds of loans exist for flight school, but I’d imagine they are predatory with double digit interest rates over 10-20 years . . .” Why not do a little research before saying, “Fuck. That?”
caterpillar_mechanic@reddit
On the contrary life is kind of pointless and nothing really matters
If flying is going to make your wife happy let her do it. If you don't want your wife to be happy, re-evaluate.
itsyournameidiot@reddit
Do you guys want kids?
EpicDude007@reddit
Get the PPL but pay as you go. Have her lay out the plan. Including building time. CFI jobs are VERY scarce right now. It took way longer and was way harder to pay off that loan than expected.
MRach5@reddit
You’ve got a million comments so I’m not sure you’ll even see this but has your wife looked into joking the 99s and Women In Aviation? There’s a ton of scholarships she can and should be applying to.
Also, which airline is she at? Quite a few airlines have Flight Attendant to Pilot career paths or cadet programs where they let you take time off work without necessarily quitting.
She certainly should look into a part 61 school for cheaper rates. She can do this faster too. My friend who was a FA at Delta got her private with me in like 3 months. It really just depends on how good she is at self studying.
dyljcks@reddit
I just went through a puppy mill school, and I'm doing my CFI at a 61.
The difference is mind blowing. Puppy mills don't care about you, their instructors, their costs, or IMSAFE.
Go to a 61, fly regularly, and continue to work.
FrequentFlyer96@reddit
Take it from me, a pilot in flight school debt that can’t get a job, don’t do it. Do something more worthwhile and get your licenses/fly on the side. There are tens of thousands of very well qualified pilots who can’t get jobs right now with no end in sight.
CommercialTwo4@reddit
My 2 cents...
The debt will kill you. Sorry but its true.
The industry is viscous and cyclical. Regency bias is a real problem.
The economy is long over due for a recession. One will happen. Then kiss any movement good bye.
There's an army of people out there who job is to sell the "dream'. Flight training is like its own little industry in its own little world of make believe. They want your money. Flight instructors are like the car salesman of aviation.
Being a working pilot is not glamorous. From my experience, the only people who respect you are the passengers.
Management thinks you're dog sh@t and the FAs think you're a sexual deviant.
Ok_Tale7071@reddit
She’ll get approved because these people are shameless. Insist that she do a Part 61 school and pay as you go. She does not need to save up and get started immediately. In fact, I would start an online ground school like part time Pilot, Kings, or shortys. I do part time Pilot and it’s excellent. This will take care of some of her anxiousness. When she at least finishes a good portion of the ground school , she can start flight training. Ground School will make her flight training more productive. She should definitely do her first class AME Medical. And buy flight headphones. Kore KA-1’s are appropriate for beginners.
Competitive_Tea6785@reddit
Dude you are messing with someone's Dreams. I agree and pay for her PPL. Get her started...then start her down the path fpr Instrument, Commercial, Multi-Engine. Plus does she understand that if she gets the hours and then starts with a carrier she will most likely relocate? Is she willing to be gone 3-4 days at a time in another city? Pilots on reddit are saying Airline Slots are hard to get. It is a big bet that she will want to continue after the PPL. CFI and check rides are a nightmare also. Let her know the hurdles she will be dealing with.
Vast_Sound_5316@reddit
At least get your PPL and save 25k compared to ATP or whatever they reduce it by.
Big red flags are: - impulsive decision - poor credit
Ce650A1rbr8ke@reddit
Full time corporate pilot here/ ex airline pilot.
I agree with you these all in one shot atp style training programs is not the answer. Maybe a compromise, have her save up for say until solo or until getting through her ppl before doing a full accel course. Most people wash out or loose interest in this time period. You can pm me if you have any questions about the process. 5500hrs captain on a Falcon business jet for a sports team currently.
NobleWizard@reddit
Definitely get the required medical and the atpl theory exams or ppl before taking out a massive loan. In the end, after a couple of years that loan would have been paid off if she can actually get a job. I saw that about 70% of people don’t find a job in the first year after training.
Liqu0rBaIISandwich@reddit
For what it’s worth, I hit six figures in 2.5 years. But youre right about all of the risks.
PP4life@reddit
2.5 years from when? From 0 hrs, or from your first paying job?
Liqu0rBaIISandwich@reddit
From 0 hours. I straight up hustled though. And moved twice for better jobs.
PP4life@reddit
Thanks for the reply and congrats for being willing to do anything to make it happen! A lot of these answers need qualifiers like yours. So that people know that moving and working HARD is what it takes, and even then there is no guaranteed outcome.
RaidenMonster@reddit
First year flying the whole year at a regiOOnal I did 107k. Line only, maybe 1 or 2 extra trips.
PP4life@reddit
That's not helping answer my question or the OP's situation. I think everyone knows the starting salary at a regional is $90k and with some extra work can get over 6 figures pretty quickly. That doesn't help OP try to figure out how to explain to his wife that taking out a huge loan with an exorbitant interest rate to start making 6 figures 3 (best case) to 6 (likely worst case) years from now will be a huge dent in their financial future.
Harinezumisan@reddit
Kinda sounds like a character I wouldn’t like to fly a plane I’m on.
blueBaggins1@reddit
Shouldve never married this woman. She doesnt have to quit her job to do this she could very well pay for it while working. It will take longer and be a struggle but a $120k loan is nuts… Plus she has a 600 credit score sounds like a woman with zero financial literacy. You sir are in a losing situation, because if she does become a pilot shes then going to drop you immediately and get someone “on her level”
mctomtom@reddit
I wouldn’t do that in your income. I only did loans because I knew my wife would be getting a massive stock payout the next year and we were able to knock out the whole loan in one payment…otherwise my payments were gonna be like $2,500 per month starting this year.
NeckEnvironmental230@reddit
Pay for the private pilot out of pocket first. You don’t really know what you’re getting yourself into until you’ve gotten at least through your private Pilot. By that point, you’ll have a much better idea of what is to come. Also, spending 120k on flight training is absolutely ludicrous unless you live in a super expensive area or go to Emory Riddle. I paid not a dime over 40K and this was back in 2017 through 2018. I’d say maybe now you would have to pay 60K to 80K total to get through commercial. Don’t always trust the programs that claim that all the multitime you will get is valuable. Paying for multi time out-of-pocket early on in my opinion is absolutely insane considering airlines don’t need that much when you’re starting out at a regional airline.
Best of luck.
exbex@reddit
Hope this isn’t too personal of a question, but I’m guessing you guys aren’t planning on having kids? If you guys do want kids, I don’t see how this is possible if she starts down the path to becoming a commercial pilot.
legitSTINKYPINKY@reddit
Ask her to create a fake resume with 500hrs and get a job interview somewhere 😭😂
Reputation_Many@reddit
I have several flight attendant friends who have on their days off, worked on their ratings and got their pilots license. I would strongly advise her not to quit her job. I was just at the RTAG pilot convention, and there were thousands of pilots trying to find hundreds of jobs. The only way I would tell her to quit her job and do this is if the place she works for currently has a pathway program where they will subsidize your training cost and give you a job with them when she completes her 1500 hours. Of course I would do exactly what everybody else said get a medical first tell The AMEN and all medication she’s ever used ever been diagnosed with any kind of issue and make sure she’ll pass the first class medical with an EKG, I don’t care how old she is. She should get the EKG to make sure there’s no issue.
She should also ask pilot she flies with if they know any way, she can cheaply build time and get her ratings. Some of those guys have airplanes and if they like your wife as a friend, they might give her some free flight time in their airplane and some of them might be CFI’s, who can actually give her some training and tips.
If she’s trying to do this just because pilots make really good money and she doesn’t love it. It really isn’t worth it if she really loves it going part 61 training on her days off is the way to go. You should make her take the written private test early And make sure she knows it’s not just flying an airplane. There’s a whole lot of studying involved.
Good luck.
NPBoss18@reddit
First things first, she needs to get her 1st class medical to see if she is even fit medically for what she wants to do.
Fluffy_Duck_Slippers@reddit
Female pilot here. The loan doesn’t guarantee the salary. You've got a right to be concerned and I also understand the 'tunnel vision' she has right now. She may get the loan, breeze through and be earning 6 figures in 10 years. She may also fail or give up and cripple herself financially. If she wants to fly then it's safer to pay as you fly. Baby steps. PPL, CPL etc. She also needs to do a Class 1 medical before she pays for anything. Finances aside.. you need to prepare yourself personally. This is a very long and stressful road. Aviation is notoriously brutal on relationships and families. She's going to need next level support. All the exams, the flight prep, the flight tests, the interviews, the sims etc. It takes someone very special to support someone through this.
teamcoltra@reddit
Wife is already an FA, so while it's different it's not so different as if she was leaving here job as a teacher or something.
Av8r1995@reddit
This is true but I second that flight training stress is just….something different. It wrecked so much havoc on my relationship even though I was also a flight attendant first. It really does take a special kind of support from a significant other.
teamcoltra@reddit
Yeah I didn't mean to downplay it the stress will still exist, and I'm not going to be a Redditor and just say "this relationship sounds terrible" I only know this one limited detail but they won't be starting with his enthusiastic support so that's not going to help.
whreismylotus@reddit
first thing to do BEFORE getting any loans is to visit AME
The FAA health requirements for pilots involve specific standards for vision, hearing, and cardiovascular and mental health, all assessed during a medical exam by an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME).
no need for a loan if she cannot pass the requirements.
gromm93@reddit
Likewise, most people fail before reaching their PPL. After that the dropout rate is a lot lower.
No need to get the loan if the PPL doesn't happen, and it "only" costs $15-20k, if she even gets all the way through it. A lot of flight instructors are pretty sure that "it costs too much" is more of a last excuse when "it's really hard, and I don't think I'm up for this" is the real reason most of the time.
Calm-Frog84@reddit
Also, be aware that there is no guarantee she won't fail medical requirement in the future while everything might be good right now.
I had a very bad experience with an AME in Europe, I was grounded for a year before being allowed to fly again on my own, after several exams by cardiologist to dismiss any issue and then validation by the AME national panel in my country... All because the initial AME had a doubt and launched the heavy and long process. It can be a carreer killer if its happen at the wrong time.
It might be good to look wether it possible to have insurance for that if a loan is taken.
ablonde_moment@reddit
Hi I’m a 34 year old female taking flight lessons. I’m also a former flight attendant for both a regional and mainline. She should absolutely make this career change. FAs get treated poorly by comparison. And the amount of money she has the potential to make is exponentially more.
Now here’s the thing. Flight school does not need to cost 120k. She should look into part 61 schools. It’s much cheaper. I now work 9-5 full time. That means I go flight lessons at 5am or 6pm. It’s definitely doable. I also moved to AZ where I can take flight lessons year round.
My goal is to have my career set by the time I’m 40 and that will give me a solid 25 year career as a pilot.
SerpentineOlivine@reddit
Agree with everything you said. Although, my Part 61 school wasn’t cheap (probably because my private took over 100 hours) OP, like most people have been saying, try to have her keep her job while flight training at a Part 61. I’ve been flying about three days a week on average and working my schedule around that.
I also empathize with her being in mid 30s and feeling the pressure to get going as quickly as possible. Time is money. But I know a couple flight attendants as well that modify their work schedule to continue flight training, so it can be doable without a loan.
Bfc214@reddit
Why did you private take over one hundred hours ? I’m going to start my ppl soon and they base the price based on the FAA minimums of forty hours. I know for most people it takes more than that though.
SerpentineOlivine@reddit
I regressed at one point in landings, so I had to keep practicing, and then my checkride got rescheduled and delayed so I just kept flying to maintain proficiency. But I don’t think I’m considered the norm. I just wanted to point out that sometimes it does happen for whatever reason.
Bfc214@reddit
Oh okay I see thank you, definitely goes to show it can cost more then you think.
hagrids_a_pineapple@reddit
National average is 70 hours. You won’t get it at 40.
Solid-Conference-432@reddit
That’s very similar to me I have tunnel vision on becoming an A&P im not that much in debt but attending school is still ridiculous keep being persistent and let’s see if her ideas stay the same couple months from now she’s determine but give it 2-3 months she probably will think twice as you all are no in the best position right now to do so.
JabariHunt@reddit
Meet someplace in the middle...
At this point, consider a loan to get to CFI. Once she's a CFI she can go full time doing that to build hours, become a better pilot, and bring in income.
Av8r1995@reddit
Female flight attendant-turned-pilot here. Best way to do it is pay cash for PPL at a local school…while you’re still working! Don’t quit your day job just yet. Make sure she can hold a 1st class Medical and actually grasp many of the concepts she’ll need to know further down the line….I’m talking aerodynamics, systems, and regulations. If she gets her PPL successfully then I’d say it’s safer to consider an accelerated program. Some have a very hard time with getting their instrument rating next, so you could even buy a ground school course (I used Sporty’s) and have her complete it before she signs up for the accelerated school.
The interest rate will most likely be double digit if she applies for a loan by herself with her kind of income, but with a good co-signer you should be able to get it knocked down some. And shop around too! You don’t have to use the financing the school pushes on you.
Source: was exactly in her shoes only a couple years ago! Best of luck!!
thanksmerci@reddit
if gatekeeping was the Olympics half the people here would win gold in Milan 2026
TSwiftIcedTea@reddit
While I love my job, love flying, and encourage anyone who wants to fly to go for it, the industry is changing and I would caution her to consider what this could mean and make sure her expectations are aligned. Right now we are seeing a saturated job market as a result of an oversupply of new certificate holders and a slowdown of retirements. There is evidence to suggest this may continue for a while, as retirements are projected to slow down further across the industry. Ask these questions:
Is she ok with the possibility of not finding work right away after she completes flight school and waiting a year or more for an opportunity to come available?
Is she ok with the possibility of working as an instructor or another low time job well past 1500 hours before getting a job at a regional airline?
Is she ok with the possibility of being an FO at a regional airline for 5 years or more before she can upgrade to captain?
Is she ok with the possibility of being at a regional airline for 10 years or more before going to a major airline?
Is she ok with the possibility that pay rates at the regional airlines could drop 30% by the time she is qualified to work there?
If the answer to all of these questions is yes, then go for it and I hope that none of these things come true. If the answer is no, then consider the likelihood of these things happening before you make a decision.
yoyo102000@reddit
My first CFI went the loan route. 120K sounds a bit light. I got my PPL about 20 years ago and he was in 140k and looking for every flight student he could find. Took him about 8 to 10 years to get enough time to get hired by one of the UA feeder lines as an FO for 16K a year. He said it was miserable work. Today he’s a Captain on an A320 I think for Delta. Making good money now but still has student debt.
A couple other people mentioned doing as much as she can without debt. It will pay off in the long run. If she’s a FA now it seems the hardest thing to do is build enough hours while working. Hope she can find a way to pursue her dream! Good luck.
Fit_Midnight_3927@reddit
Im sorry. Thats tough. She might be like a lot of people who believe its easier than what it is. It's hard to say who gets where in this industry as soon as they finish up training. Some near being homeless, others not so much. It's like going to the casino of life. It feels that way sometimes. One day you're up and the next you are down. What I mean by that is. You could get everything squared up, boom! Health issues. Or you fail checkrides, or you lose so much interest.....need i say pilot deviations. So many more variables into that idea of 120k at a crazy interest rate with no certainty. If I could go back. Id get into medical or engineering. Something stable. Like super stable. AI coding and whatever goes into that. Plant work at a chemical plant. If your heart is into flying and not some fade go for it. Everything gets tiring and old.
I got lucky. I became a commercial diver and I work hard sometimes. Other times I dont do anything and get paid. It's fun most days! I also became a commercial pilot multiengine. I like both, but diving is better and better to my family right now.
I was also convinced by many to "just go chase your dreams." "Go be a pilot." All the hype. It's easy to say one thing sitting on the otherside. To go tell others and hype them up that "you can do it." While retired or in a chair thats making it. Out of the 100,000 pilots and growing to chase this dream. Not everyone will survive. That's life. Not a downer. Life. Life's not fair all the time. But what's great is there are other options that won't put you in 120k plus 14% interest.
Becoming a pilot has been the hardest thing I've ever done. Not because of academics or studying. Scheduling. Finding a school that wont rip you off and lie to you. Milton,FL (name shaming area) being one. DPEs, weather, and the list continues. It's not always a "im gonna just do it today."
Sounds like negativity. It is. This whole life changing situation is negativity until you get to where you want to be. Kinda.
Reality is. Ive been lucky. Ive been down. Ive nailed it right on the head with getting where I needed to be. Other times. My wife's been through the ringer with this one as well.
I can see the person who wants to feel that passion and gets fired up in the beginning. Im that person. Tackle head strong and embrace the suck, but what a suck and how much can you endure before you break everything apart. Its tough. Especially now and days.
Im in my 30s and it is a lot to balance. Ive done a lot to be in my 30s looking back now which aint long to look back on. But others have it made and im still climbing. Not sure how some days. I pray everyday I dont fall though.
Best of luck with what you and your wife chooses to do.
richarddebussy51504@reddit
Is she giving you what you need?
Casual_Parakeet12@reddit
You're exactly right about the loans. Pay as you go, part 61, is the way to go. She should know better than anyone how cyclical the industry is. If she finished her commercial right now, she'd have a really hard time finding a low-time job and moving up at all. Many people I know who took out loans to get up to their CFI aren't getting anywhere right now and are finding themselves having to pursue work in a different industry to scrape by on their loan payments. You nailed it exactly right in the third paragraph. Airline pilots absolutely love their jobs, because it's great work, but they're the ones who made it. And especially in this hiring market, nothing is guaranteed.
Like others have said here, getting medical, doing ground, and taking PPL written exam would be a perfect place to start.
RealP4@reddit
Hey man you have the absolute right idea those flight school loans are absolutely ridiculous. I think the slow way is the move personally saving for PPL and going from there. The accelerated program at these schools are no joke as someone who came from the 141 world. Also getting hired by a major airline can greatly depend on many factors like the economy where they may or may not be hiring. It’s not a get rich quick thing and it takes a lot of time to get to that level. I would seriously consider finding a flight school where you pay as you go that you can walk away from at any time instead of being forced to deal with another school because of that loan. You should also look up stories of people in flight schools that ended up with an uncompleted program, got kicked out for nonsense reasons, and ended up having to payback a lot of debt.
LeatherFruitPF@reddit (OP)
I just saw some posts about some people’s experiences and even what their loan offers look like and oof, pretty much what I expected. My biggest issue is the lack of safety net. As you said there are people who unfortunately don’t complete the program for whatever reason and are stuck with a giant loan with nothing to show for it. I just need to convince her the pay as you go route would be the safer bet, and that the constraint she’s setting for herself of having 20 years on the career is what’s leading to poor decision making.
dinnerisbreakfast@reddit
You will have a hard time convincing her she is wrong, but you could find some middle ground. Convince her to pay as you go through private, then full send, or to take out a small loan to get the private and afterwards look into taking out more.
I did several smaller loans that added up to about $125k, but the deferred interest on those loans made it over $180k when I was done. I've paid $1600/mo on the repayment plans for 16 years now and I still have another year to go.
ViceroyInhaler@reddit
Im from Canada so it will be a bit different for you. But in Canada we have a book called From the Ground Up. It's basically all the info you need to know to get your PPL. It talks about aircraft design. Flight instruments and how they work. Weather. Air law. Flight rules. Principles of flying etc. The book is like a textbook. I'm sure there is a similar one for the US. It'll be like $60. Basically what you need to get started.
I suggest you call a flight school and see what the equivalent book is. Also maybe go to an aviation store as they should have it. Maybe also get the ppl written study guide and practice exam booklet. Also grab some notebooks for taking notes. If she can't be bothered to study the material or isn't interested then there's no reason to drop the money on training. It'll be like $120-150 on the books. Buy em used even as long as they are only a couple years old.
RealP4@reddit
Exactly I admire the wanting to get it done but say it takes an extra 3 years from her plan to get it all done fast. 17 years as an airline pilot still is damn good and you can make a lot of money. And yea it’s crazy like a flight school can drop you and stop training at any time. Also these pilot mills sometimes produce pilots that aren’t worth the price tag they paid. Not always but some have a shocking lack of competence. To get to the airlines you have to learn the proper way and go through General aviation with a great skill set that’s going to keep you safe. You can learn all that and more for way less than 120K and get where you want to go.
narconaught5@reddit
My wife did exactly this while working full time. It's possible. While we did take out loans, our income supported it and we didn't struggle. She's now a pilot and doing great.
BrokenHalligan@reddit
How about we start with ppl first and go from there honey…
LeatherFruitPF@reddit (OP)
Yep, mentioned that in the post. She doesn’t want to do it one step at a time. She wants the fastest way possible while she’s still “young” enough to get in and get 20 years as a career airline pilot.
RaidenMonster@reddit
I made it through a part 61 program in my mid 30’s, career changing, in a year and 3 days. That was 0-CFII. All in cost was about 50k.
They are out there, but I don’t know if a lot of people that didn’t much faster than that. After instructing, that still left me with 28 years in the airlines.
BrokenHalligan@reddit
Big loan but happy wife happy life right?
thenewguyonreddit@reddit
Only if you have absolutely no balls or backbone.
BrokenHalligan@reddit
I’m low key happy to see the downvotes on that happy wife post lol not my 120k 😂
Ok-Motor1883@reddit
One step at a time can still be fast. Check fly with Trent on YouTube. He inspired me to get started and had a lot of helpful advice.
To repeat what everyone else is saying. Find a smaller part 61 school or good independent cfi.
Can go just as fast or faster for half the price.
Do not take out loans. Many FAs continue to work and train with no problem. Look for company pilot pathway programs.
flyingseaplanes@reddit
Hard to put a price on a dream.
RaidenMonster@reddit
That fella up top did. About 232k, or 1900 a month for 10 years.
flyingseaplanes@reddit
Shit.
Glad-Lawyer6128@reddit
How about help her sign up for a part 61, pay for it now and see where it goes. She could have a ppl with as little as 10k into it and then reevaluate. There are also universities with 0-CFI paths that have far better education for around 60k OTD.
bnzgfx@reddit
I agree that co-signing a large loan is unwarranted and risky. (Although many state colleges have flight training programs, so I don't think the loan terms are any different than other student loans) Maybe suggest to her that you will match her investment out of pocket if she trains part 61? That way you are being supportive without being reckless. If she knuckles down, she can start making money as a CFI after a year or two of training, and then she can rack up flight hours fast. And she may find she enjoys just being a CFI...I know plenty of people who are happy doing that. The pay isn't great, but you are home for dinner.
Pass the medical, train part 61 out of pocket (That is, she does her own studying and trains on her own schedule) until she obtains enough ratings to become a CFI. Then she can get paid to grind out the hours required to qualify for the airlines. Once you get to know people within the aviation community (it's a small community) you can often find CFI's who will be happy to train you in exchange for plane rental or gas money. You don't need a loan, except maybe to get over the initial fiscal hump of obtaining a PPL, which is not really that bad. (Pro tip: rural airfields have better rental prices) Once you have your ticket, new doors will start opening.
It's a risky career move, yes...but working pilots are among the few people I know who really love their jobs. (And you will probably hate it, because aviation is a great way to set fire to your money. But YOLO.)
Apehandeddiamondfist@reddit
Kids.
WittyHorror4629@reddit
Look at cadet programs through the airlines. Even if she has to take out a loan, it will give her a path.
I told my husband years ago that it was too expensive, so we worked and saved. He only had to quit for 1.5 years because he already had private, commercial, & instrument.
He joined the SW program and is currently flying for a small airline in Maui, which he loves. He has never been happier. He put it off for 15 years because I pushed back on the cost. He’s 46 now.
I wish we hadn’t waited 15 years. Have her apply to the cadet programs, then take it one license at a time. It can go fast but takes a while to build hours.
Shuttle_Tydirium1319@reddit
I’ve got a good handful of flight attendants from a bunch of different airlines doing our 141 program. They still keep their jobs and just understand their training and CFI time building timelines might be longer.
It’s a common enough switch, but there are definitely less financially risky ways to do it. The 120k number makes me think it’s ATP. Make sure y’all do a lot of research into that and know what you’re getting into.
ChiFxxd@reddit
At RTAG this weekend, PSA said they have 14,000 pilot resumes on file. Good luck.
skele651@reddit
I’ve trained a handful of flight attendants. The best one I taught flew with me Monday’s through Thursdays and worked a full schedule on weekends. (9 years of seniority at a LCC helps). She’s hoping to keep doing that as a CFI and then quit when she gets to the regionals. I would say being an FA is easier to balance with flight training than a regular 9-5.
That said, the hiring market is extremely saturated right now and that problem is only going to get worse by the time she makes it there. A significant portion of the people in training right now will never fly anything with a turbine or ever get paid to fly. Check ride failures will be an impediment to getting hired. In my personal experience the four flight attendants I have taught have struggled more than the average students. Her experience will be independent of mine, but I’d be sweating bullets if I had a 16% loan and four check ride failures.
My recommendation would be to get her private part 61 without debt while holding her current job. If she gets through that with no failures she’ll be able to make an educated decision about loans.
TupperwareRobot@reddit
Just curious, when you say “A significant portion of the people in training right now will never fly anything with a turbine or ever get paid to fly” do you mean that the my will drop out or the industry won’t allow it?
PhillyPilot@reddit
I had one flight attendant as a student and she was my worst student. Not to say that the OPs wife might end up being in that situation since many FAs become pilots but there seems to be something going on there for some reason
Grouchy-Ad656@reddit
I would avoid loans if possible they suck. Find a way to save money and make some extra money. I am assuming she is looking at ATP flight school. If she goes get her PPL at a mom and pop school you could save some there.
Reborn1217@reddit
What company is your wife a flight attendant for?
Bravo-Buster@reddit
I'd say if you're absolutely committed to it, the smarter thing is to buy a cheap Cessna 150 or 172 or piper Cherokee or Grumman that's instrument rated, and pay a private cfII to teach. Take online ground schools to save even more.
When you're using a flight school, you're buying someone else's plane and dealing with scheduling issues. When you have your own, they're as cheap as a car, and when you're finished with your time (or decide it isn't for you after all), you can sell it and recoup a lot of your investment.
Plus, if she gets her CFII, she could in theory use it as a teaching plane (insurance is super high if you do), and then its costs are a business expense.
So in short, definitely don't get a loan just for school; there are lots of other ways of doing it.
Iflysims@reddit
I get the desire but there is more than one way to go. First have her go for her First Class medical to see if there any issues from keeping her becoming a pilot. Then she can work slower even under 141 but 61 makes little difference in the end how she got there. Keeping her job at the airline is actors more than just salary. She will make contacts for the future and can also explore any benefits they offer. Then get her Private Pilot License and see how that goes and move up from there.
swa73driver@reddit
I would strongly suggest not becoming an airline pilot. Tell her that hiring has dropped, and she has to think, one wrong move, or moody DPE can end her goals at it. One checkride failure is one less interview. Also. Tell her accelerated programs don’t make you at all competitive. She will most likely be regional and hate her career. But thats all her decision. If she also doesn’t have college degrees that also make her look less competitive.
toifelhund@reddit
With some rare exceptions, there are only 2 ways to become a pilot:
1) Join the military 2) Come from money
Even with those things it comes down to luck and timing. Right now, that timing is about to change. We are poised for a major recession and there won’t be many pilot jobs, much less FA jobs for the next few years. It would be financially ruinous to have a large loan in such an environment.
Hope is good but it can wreck lives and finances. For every success story of someone grinding their way from FA to being hired into the cockpit, there are many more broken dreams you never hear about. It’s called survivorship bias. You only hear from the people who made it.
Don’t be fooled by stories of success. There are a lot of pilots right now with amazing stories of grit and resilience. While those are admirable, it mostly came down to plain luck. We had a historically unique hiring surge a few years ago post Covid that likely won’t be repeated. Quite a few of today’s new pilots would be still grinding it out or unemployed if the hiring environment were the way it currently is.
Don’t be fooled by the so called pilot shortage. Currently, there are lines of unemployed pilots with thousands of hours who can’t find work to save their lives. Many are former military who flew in combat. Think of this, it cost the government at least $1.1MM to train each pilot. Even with 10-11X of your wife’s potential loaned training budget, these pilots struggle to find work.
If you want to gauge the current flying environment, search for RTAG. They just had a major convention yesterday and there are many posts about what types of hours potential employers are requiring. The general consensus is that the minimum cutoff is 1500 hours. 2000 is minimum to be realistically competitive. $120K will only buy a fraction of that. It’s a very expensive gamble that flight schools, flight instructors, and overly optimistic pilots are encouraging her to make. I’d hate to see her unemployed, saddled with debt, in the middle of a recession with no job prospects in sight. This is a very real probability and I wish more people would have this honest conversation.
TextJunior@reddit
Check out flyaccelerated.com, it's a flight school near Denver CO that is fast and much more affordable. She can get her personal license for a tenth of what she is considering for a commercial and only spend about a week doing it.
Getting her PPL is much more reasonable and will give her an idea of if she actually wants to pursue commercial, its a lot of work and money. Hundreds of hours before she'll even be considered for a job. It's not like other careers, you can't just do school and then expect to get a job with no experience.
zqxwcempnobi@reddit
I hate to be the person that deters to someone pursuing their dreams… but my .02 is that the days of massive hiring waves are over and her career progression will be slower than what she’s envisioning.
Thastvrk@reddit
My wife took one of those loans back in 2019 but thankfully the industry was hiring when she finished training and instructing. She's now pulling $200+/hr as a FO and contributes 9x what her loan payment is per month so it was a good investment for us but I still am looking to refi that private loan due to its rate.
Rvrd90@reddit
My flight instructor was 30+ yo when I started lessons just for enjoyment. I was 45 when I got my private license it’s 70hrs and about $12,000 in cost. I was working full time.
Look for some tuition help. I know AOPA has a scholarship program that may assist.
TheSteve1778@reddit
She does not need a loan. You can pay as you go at a part 61 mom and pop type flight school. If she is looking at a part 141 “pilot mill” type school like ATP for example, they often try to push people to sign up for a massive 120K loan, which can be a life altering amount of debt at a 20% interest rate. Whatever she chooses, DO NOT PAY UPFRONT!! If she drops out, that loan doesn't go away. If the flight school closes mid training (which can happen), they have your money. If she hates the school/instructor, then she gets stuck there instead of being able to hop over to a different school that could be a better fit in that scenario.
PrettyPilotWings@reddit
Hi there! Female pilot here. If you think talking to another female pilot about this would help convince her, I’d be happy to talk to her.
There is absolutely nothing that 120k is going to get her that she can’t find at a part 61 pay as you go school. I went to the school that I assume she’s considering and was super fortunate to not take out the loans. I didn’t know any better. But A) it was hard because it was SO fast paced and I had no aviation background prior to enrolling and B) I watched people start only to realize that they either didn’t enjoy it like they thought they would or they didn’t actually want to do this for the next 30 years.
This was also my second career, having come from a background in leadership in corporate America. I made it through, but it wasn’t easy.
Now I fly 767s for a 121 carrier.
It’s doable. She doesn’t need to rush. She needs to make sure she understands everything she’s getting herself into and make the best decisions for your family as a whole.
Substantial_Pound_42@reddit
I would save as much as i could and pay for the lessons as i go, at least that’s what im doing now. I don’t have many expenses but ive already got my ground schooling paid for and ive been doing my lessons as i can afford them. I’m about 5 hours in and ive been spending about $280/hour
Substantial_Pound_42@reddit
Also make sure she knows exactly what the timeline looks like. She will likely have to be working a job in aviation like a cfi or something like that to build time but those jobs typically aren’t full time as far as i know. My cfi and other cfis i have talked to have had secondary full time jobs as well as flight instruction
Plastic_Jaguar_7368@reddit
I would be really excited if my wife wanted to become a pilot, it think it’s hot AF. But yeah no go on the loans. Pull up. Go around.
the_eviscerist@reddit
I will preface this by saying that I never think loans are a good idea for flight training, for the reasons you've already said. However, maybe you can compromise with your wife and take out a small $10k loan for her to start her PPL with. With today's costs, she'll need to save up a little herself to add to that, but at least that can give her a better idea of what flight training is actually like.
It's very easy to be tunnel visioned when all you've done is a discovery flight. After you've learned how much studying and practice goes into passing a checkride, there's at least a little bit more reality there when you're talking about doing more training.
I did my PPL, instrument, commercial single, and commercial multi all while working full time. I studied during lunch breaks and did most of my lessons in the evenings or on days off. I wasn't married and no kids at the time, so I just saved every penny I had during that time to do it without loans. It took less than 2 years. A part 61 school will be way cheaper and more flexible than a 141, especially an accelerated program.
CDK369@reddit
I’m a flight attendant and I’ve held onto the job the whole three years I’ve been training. I’ve taken a year break total in between ratings. I used part 61 and I’ve spent $60,000 so far. She can join a local 99s group for support.
Longjumping-Escape15@reddit
She should absolutely do it but she shouldn’t take out such a massive loan like that. Accelerated programs aren’t for everyone. Definitely pay as you go if you can or take small incremental loans to keep your progress going. Going through a university program will allow you to take out fed loans (if they even exist anymore with everything going on)
Jwylde2@reddit
Are you willing to throw down some coin to put her through flight school?
bc_this_is_America@reddit
There are ways she can do it without huge loans. She can build hours working as a cfi until a regional hires her. My airline has a program that gets you a flying job to build your hours before you come here as an FO. I'm lazy and I make $350k. If you're ok with your wife making that kind of money, then support her decision and explore the different ways she can achieve it without going so much into debt.
havand@reddit
Mom and pop, accelerated programs don’t do you favors and the loans are stupid predatory in nature. If ATP is the school run away, also keep in mind they are not 141, they merely structure like one. The money involved is high yes. The reward going airlines is also there but the vacuum of post COVID and 1500 hour pilots hiring to majors is now pipe dream. There are guys waiting to get class dates at regionals some as long as 2 years. The tea leaves have changed again, welcome to pilot aviation.
aionPhriend@reddit
Ok before taking out a loan or anything like that go for one lesson. See if you like it and if it fits you. Next got get the ppl books. Read every book. Do the study and pass the exam. Then and only then do you even consider taking out the loan. Personally I would study right up to atpl for at least a year before doing any flying. Also sort out a flight sim and get it all down before you start flying. By the time you take out a loan flying should be second nature. You should have it down to a T. Walk in and pass your exams. Get your flying passed in a month amd go to work. By which I mean buy a plane and sell seats.
Dmackman1969@reddit
1) have her get her first class medical, make sure no hiccups.
2) take 8-12k and have her go through PPL, get some time under her belt and see if she has the aptitude for it, the long term desire as well. Heck go to 20k and get IFR, commercial and CFI knocked out.
3) if she’s still hung ho, great, go part 91 route and get to 1500. If she’s not gung ho and all out ready to commit, your only out 20-30k and she has an expensive hobby and your not on the hook for 120+k which is absolutely a ridiculous amount…
CaptMcMooney@reddit
Have her go part 61 and pay as you go, it takes the same amount of time and you won't end up with soul crushing debt.
truth, learning to fly isn't overly difficult and can be done on the side.
1 or 2 flights with 3 to 4 hours studying each week, i was able to get my ppl in minimal time. paid out of pocket
devon2576@reddit
Go part 61 and fly on the side. I work average 50-60 hours a week and got my PPL in 7 months for 15k roughly at 43hrs at a reputable but bit more pricey school. Now for instrument I’m at a cheaper school and shared the cost of all the hours time building with other pilots. I’ll probably be all in around 6-7k for the instrument rating if I had to guess. This whole time i mold my flights around even meeting commercial requirements so once my hours meet minimums i should have a lot of the flight requirements met. She can become CFII at a part 61 school for half of the amount you listed in your post as long as she is effective and motivated. Do online ground schools and self study for each rating. Written exams first then worry about flight training to focus 100% on the skills she’ll be learning. Good luck. Avoid loans if possible.
teamcoltra@reddit
Here's how you get this cost down stupid low:
If she has completed that, buy a plane. Get a cheap Cherokee 140 (preferably with the mogas STC). When she's buying the plane try to find a local instructor to take it for a test flight and fly it back with you from wherever you get it
There's two options now: take a leave of absence at work and spend 1 month flying every day, multiple times a day, with the flight instructor. She will have her license in the 60 hours. That's real fast if you're flying 4 hours a day and you're not going to forget things because it's all so fresh
She doesn't need a school or the overhead. Then basically just do the same thing for the commerical rating and anything else.
Do instructing (she will likely need a new trainer for her CFI unless her first instructor has a cfii) to earn more money and fly her own plane on weekends to build time.
This is what I did, I sold my plane after training and I got my PPL for under 12k not including the fact I sold my plane for a small profit.
If she was dedicated and did it all at once she could go all the way to CFI with 250 hours and all the stuff needed to get there for about $30k or about $65k if she used part 61 and rentals.
fatmanyolo@reddit
I never actually recommend this to anyone, but if all else fails there are airlines that offer discounts to employees that want to attend their pilot training.
Republic’s LIFT Academy, United Aviate (I think), etc
Clunk500CM@reddit
The first thing your gf will want to do is check to see if she can pass a First-Class medical:
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/standards
Redfish680@reddit
Perhaps meet her somewhere in the middle. Borrow for half the PPL?
EatSleepFlyGuy@reddit
Before she does anything financial, she needs to go get a first class medical. Not saying there’s anything wrong with your wife, but the inability to get a first class medical could put a stop to the whole dream. I recommend everyone get their medical before spending money on flight training.
Marbogast0615@reddit
I’ve recently also had to try to talk my stepson out of doing a pilot mill type training. Still working on it actually. The program he’s looking at is $120-140,000. Of course at 19 he doesn’t understand the financial implications that will have on his life.
I am a career pilot, been flying since 1998. It’s all I’ve known so in my opinion there are a few reasons to avoid the pilot mills even not considering the loans.
I asked a CFI in town (I’m in TN) and the school they are at recently had 2 students go from zero to CFII. One did it in the school’s light sport plane and it was $56,000. The other did it all in 172s and it was $67,000. Both of those much better than 120-140
Reasons besides loans why pilot mills are bad.
Can’t do anything else really as they expect 24/7 availability.
Pilot mill pilots typically aren’t that great. They just have time to get the surface level knowledge and skills. Surprising knowledge gaps. Makes sense since it’s so compressed and most CFIs at the programs come from the program so it’s a cycle of you don’t know what you don’t know.
You can get kicked out of the program at any time and from what I hear right now at least at the program (AA Cadet Academy) my stepson is looking at they are kicking folks out for almost everything right now. Sounds like stuff that would have been ok last year is getting people kicked out now.
Finishing programs like that don’t really mean an instant CFI job. The hiring has slowed (it’s still honestly not too bad, it seems to be on pace with historical “normal” hiring. It seems really bad now since the last few years were insanely good). The market might get flooded with high time guys if Spirit tanks. And it’s looking very possible they will. That will slow hiring even more for low time folks.
You can do it just as fast if go to a mom and pop school that has a few planes. You can also have a job while you do it that way. And it’s about half the price.
Now this one is just me saying my best guess. So take it with a grain of salt coming from an internet rando. I don’t see anyone that starts today being a regional pilot in less than 4 years. No matter how fast they smoke thru the ratings.
Anyways best of luck to you both. There are options out there that let her live her dream while also not financially crippling yall.
ltcterry@reddit
Good God. Moronic plan.
It would be great if she were a successful pilot. She needs a realistic plan.
There is no need to rush “full time.” There are no entry level jobs to be had. There are approximately 30,000 new instructors looking at 4,000 jobs that aren’t becoming vacant because the current occupants aren’t leaving.
How will she make a loan payment when she has no job?
A discovery flight bares no resemblance to flight training. Flight training bares no resemblance to a flying career.
There’s an 80% dropout rate for Private. Then just half of Private Pilots get an instrument rating.
Here’s what I suggest. Save $18-20k cash to pay for Private locally. Keep her job. Fly locally on the side. Pay as you go.
I have two clients who are FAs out of Atlanta who have done this. Both are new Commercial Pilots. One just finished multiengine with me. The other about to start. Both sharp women. Both have opportunities.
Both have good plans. Both will get there.
Have you heard the expression “act your wage?”
Mazer1415@reddit
Has she applied to her airline’s cadet program? Save you a bunch if she’s accepted.
InternationalSort714@reddit
There has been people in the last year or so who took the huge loan and completed the flight school but it ended up costing significantly more than projected and once they got to ATP minimums the flight school gave them the boot to make space for new people. They weren’t able to get a job as an airline pilot for many months due to the state of aviation/the economy and so they continued making their $3k payments for most of the year and struggled to find work even as a flight instructor elsewhere. They did eventually get where they were trying to go, but it was a difficult path to say the least.
TiagoASGoncalves@reddit
Is there any option for her, as FA, try join an airline who has cadet programs? Some airlines do have cadet programs and have a % of such programs for internal staff. The advantage is massive not to mention no need to have loans.
Also, in another note, some people really do look into a cheaper option that takes much longer time... Others take a more expensive and direct approach, in much less time. Question is, toward the career end, that extra time vs saving translates in how much exacly? Because sometimes people do really need to think in the long term to properly define how much saving is actually saving...spending less in more time may be correlate to "save" in the long run.
All the best and good luck.
Dimfang@reddit
A lot of people on this sub tend to associate 141 schools with giant loans but thats not always the case. Im at a 141 and part 61 school. Im in the 141 program (think curriculum based over freestyle) and do not have to take a loan out to fly. the 141 rates are fairly priced, are the same as the 61 rates, and I am able to pay as I go. I really like the curriculum based style of part 141 and highly recommend it to anyone however you DO NOT need a 120k loan to do that.
MLZ005@reddit
I’m an FA and I got my ratings when I was new, making year 1/2 salary and on reserve half the time. Part 61 and pay as you go. Do not take out a loan
Hodgetwins32@reddit
Yeah honestly I get what you’re saying, you’re right. But do you honestly wanna have her income capped at well under six figs and also not let her pursue something she has passion for and wants to include you in on? I mean she’s in her 30s, she can choose it. I say take some risks maybe you’ll be better off for it.
Odd-Explanation-9614@reddit
Tell her to look at all of the posts about people who can’t find a job.
Schafir@reddit
Definitely pace it and don't go into debt to do it.
Step #1: Apply and obtain a first class medical. Your career depends on it.
I also believe that the primary motivation can't just be to make a lot of money. You have to love the process and love aviation to justify putting in all the work to get there.
Th3Man0nTh3M00n@reddit
The key here isn’t to “talk her out of it” as much as to redirect her intensity into a path that still honors the dream without nuking your finances.
Start from complete emotional alignment before introducing logic.
“I love how passionate you are about flying. It’s rare to see you this lit up about something, and I honestly admire that you found something that makes you feel alive.”
That’s crucial — if she feels understood, she’ll stop defending the dream and start listening about how to pursue it.
“I’m not against you flying — I’m against you being crushed by debt that might keep you from flying or from living freely once you do. I want us to build a flight plan that actually gets you to that cockpit and keeps you there.”
Frame it in aviation terms — she’ll relate to that. You’re both talking about flight safety, not dream denial.
Have her see the math. Let’s say: • $120,000 loan at 10% interest over 15 years = ~$1,300/month • As a new regional pilot, she might make $50–70k/year for the first few years (before taxes). • After rent, insurance, and other costs, those loan payments could consume 30–40% of her take-home pay. • If she can’t finish the program, or the airline industry dips, that debt doesn’t disappear.
Instead of telling her she’s wrong, ask questions that make her consider the blind spots: • “What if you get sick or injured mid-training — what’s the plan?” • “What if regionals don’t hire at the rate they’re hiring now?” • “If the loan gets denied, what’s your backup?” • “Would you still love flying if it took 6–8 years instead of 2?”
For example: • Save up and earn her Private Pilot License (PPL) first ($10–15k). • During that, she’ll discover if she truly loves flying often versus the idea of flying. • Then progress as finances allow — maybe get a side income, scholarships (there are tons for women in aviation), or partial financing later.
Frame it like:
“Let’s treat the PPL as your ‘proof of concept.’ If you love it and can handle the workload and cost, then we move on to the next stage.“
Many pilots online (especially on r/flying and aviation forums) warn against taking large loans for flight school. You could show her stories of: • People who took out $100k+ and regret it. • Others who did the modular route and still made it to airlines. Hearing it from pilots will have more weight than from you.
“I want you to be a pilot. I want us to do it in a way where we’re not flying blind, where we’re financially stable, and where we both feel good about the plan. Let’s make a strategy that works for your dream and for our marriage.”
RealP4@reddit
Holy moly this is good advice!!
tesrella@reddit
ChatGPT will do that
RealP4@reddit
Dammit 😂. Im not smart enough to recognize AI that’s above my pay grade hahaha
Galactic_Dolphin@reddit
Look for the em dashes it’s a dead giveaway
tesrella@reddit
Thanks ChatGPT
BestPhilosophy3939@reddit
I literally knew this was ai from seeing all the spaces out writing didn’t even read anything. And ofc it came back as 96 percent ai lmao.
TristanwithaT@reddit
Em dashes are typically the obvious ChatGPT sign. Which is a shame - I like em dashes lmao
Th3Man0nTh3M00n@reddit
got me 😆
7layeredAIDS@reddit
Also look at current retirement projections. If you START now you’ll HOPEFULLY be at a regional before 2030 but even that is idealistic. After 2030 retirements really slow down and you could be on the backside of the hiring wave for YEARS. Meaning even if you get a job at a regional expect pretty slow movement.
onnob@reddit
Tell your wife about flight schools like Sebring Flight Academy. They estimate they can provide the training from zero to CPL for less than $40,000.
https://sebringflightacademy.com/commercial-training
traffic_in_sight@reddit
I just got through my commercial in a very high cost of living area with mostly g1000 Cessnas for under 67k. And I could have done it a lot quicker and cheaper if I wanted to, too without traveling unreasonably far away.
There’s no reason to do a specific accelerated program. Go to a nearby school which is not ATP, and see if they have instructors who can keep up with the pace she wants (which, by the way is probably faster than what she actually will do anyway). It’s very unlikely that availability of anything outside of examiners, and her own ability to build knowledge will cause her to have slowdowns
ghjm@reddit
Aside from the question of the loan (which I agree is likely predatory), I want to say - NEVER EVER pre-pay for flight training. There are any number of flight schools that have gone bankrupt and taken all that prepayment money with them. At that point you're an unsecured creditor and might, if you're lucky, get pennies on the dollar back, years from now. So if you do get a loan (which, again, I agree is a bad idea), get it for cash, and then pay over time for the training.
If she's got reasonable seniority as a flight attendant she should be able to bid trips in a way that allows flying days. Her ability to do flight training will depend on weather and equipment so she can't expect to fly every day regardless. Quitting her job might very well slow down her training for lack of money more than it will speed it up for having more time. And the more years of airline experience the better, for getting hired on as a pilot later.
fallingfaster345@reddit
As someone did all the things you’re worried about… was a flight attendant, quit to train full time, in my 30s, took out a massive loan - by myself-no co-signer - and am now an airline pilot with that loan completely paid off (under 6 years from training start to paying it off) I understand your hesitation but also… flight school is expensive no matter how you slice it and sometimes taking out a loan is the way to go.
I have some words of caution against “accelerated programs,” but not the loans themselves. You will need to read the terms of the loan and don’t sign one that’s predatory. Additionally, it’s not so much the loans you need to be afraid of as the program. Make sure she chooses to a program that will set her up for success. If she’s at a good school that invests in their students’, the risk of failure and “financial ruin” is much lower.
Personally, I couldn’t have done part 61 pay-as-you-go. The only way I was able to get to where I am today was the route I took: a loan. Your concerns are completely reasonable and you have more than enough comments validating them but keep in mind that there ARE plenty of success stories from people who attended accelerated programs and took out loans, too. Just because they aren’t in line with what you think doesn’t necessarily make them unreasonable opinions.
Best of luck to your wife as she follows her dreams.
DefundTheHOA_@reddit
Don’t take out a massive loan like that because the loans will still need to be paid back after your wife drops out of flight school like most people do.
SpadeTheIntrovert@reddit
Check DM
Waste_Worker6122@reddit
If she can't take the loan out without you co-signing it sounds like you don't need to talk her out of anything. It is tricky as I can see both sides. It is a high risk move that may well not work out and could potentially sink your marriage. At the same time I have sympathy for your wife - after all, what is life worth if you can't/don't pursue your dreams? I hope you two can come to a mutual agreement as to how to proceed.
LeatherFruitPF@reddit (OP)
Yeah and that was something I pointed out to her. That we can weigh the pros and cons of the loan but it’s all moot if she can’t even get approved for it.
And yeah, I try to make it clear that I support her dream career. But I’m also afraid that she’s not considering the possibility that it may be too cost prohibitive for us to make it happen. And I don’t want to build a life with someone who is always grieving about a version that didn’t happen.
Mrs_helifax_Spy@reddit
I agree with you. I only have one quick answer to one of your questions. She will NOT get approved for a 70k loan on a 600 FICO, not with Sallie Mae, not with any other smaller bank. From experience, I tell you my BF TRIED to go against my advice and got DENIED with a 720 score. They look at ALL aspects, not just scores. Job history, rent, and bills. They probably want them to make 3x the minimum payment in income AFTER bills.
They offered to have a co-signer. With a big MAYBE. Not many will want to put their credit on the line :/
I agree with the other comments. She should try for PPL first and then move to the next step.
jsisson801@reddit
Yeah some schools have “loan partners” that are 20% interest. Plus a $35,000 “closing cost”. So read the paperwork if there is any loan (literally I jumped through all the hoops of statements and at the very end when it came down to signing docs I read the fine print and my school said$70,000 all in but you could only do the max amount with their partner of 93k and after it was all said and done it was a 125k loan amount to start. It was wild to think that a credit card might give you better terms! 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤡
Don’t get sold on the urgency and scarcity piece of your seniority #. While it matter, the goal is 1500 hours anyways and there are plenty of avenues to get there and fund it. My private ended up costing me $40,000 with the DPE wait of 5 months and weather not cooperating. But I’ll still chug along and fly when I can and know I’m not putting my family and spouse in a huge pickle if things don’t work out. I know a ATP student who’s out of their safety funds and moving in with family for a couple years- happens, but glad it’s not permanent
EsquireRed@reddit
Covid 2.0 can happen, people lose their medicals, people decide flying isn’t for them, people can’t find jobs after doing flight training, etc, etc, etc…
Borrowing to fly is risky if any of these issues, or a host of others that can arise, hit. I started in my late 30’s and start at my dream job later this month after six years of grinding, so your wife has plenty of time. She can chase her dream at a pace and financial situation that makes sense.
I paid cash as I went and have zero regrets. Don’t let her go to a “zero to hero” program where a massive loan is involved (like ATP flight school or others like it) where you can only fly full-time and can’t work another job. Find a “mom and pop” school locally that you like where you pay as you go and start flying. Work a job while you fly (I was an attorney while I trained and worked my way up the ladder, plus I’m married with kids). It’s busy but can be done.
PM me if you want to chat more.
crimbo19@reddit
Three things. Firstly, she ever flown a plane herself? Please ask her to take a discovery flight at the local flight school, usually priced cheaper than a regular flight lesson. A discovery flight should always always be step 1. Maybe even pay out of pocket for a full lesson after. She has to know that she actually likes it… folks exist that get in a small training and end up hating it. Thing the second: she’s mostly right about getting the transition done asap. In my year as an instructor the people that had the money to bang out lessons got done sooner and had a higher rate of getting all the way through commercial rating. The ones that worked to pay for each lesson didn’t. Yes it’s best to minimize the loan and try to work and save for lessons but having the loan available is a benefit. Lastly; as perspective.I just took a pop up trip that paid premium. Fly two hours to LAX, 18 hour overnight, then fly two hours home. It will pay 21 hours plus 17% 401k, and per diem; totaling $5455 for working about 4 flight hours. All I had to do was be willing to work two off days. Will easily clear $300k year three at a major. It’s an extremely lucrative career. If she loves it it will enrich her life a lot. Dunno if that helps but you can feel free to reach out to me directly if you have questions.
Jack-Frosttt@reddit
If you’re serious about flight training you can do it just as quickly at a part 61 school for probably almost half the price. I understand why some people, especially younger, tend towards 141 schools that churn people out quick, but from a financial point of view if you’re able to stay organized and study stuff yourself part 61 is a no brainer.
Hawaiiankinetings@reddit
I am late 30s also a flt attendant and pursuing a pilot career. I paid out of pocket for my training and not my job. This is no time to be rushing to become a pilot especially when you are older because you have less time to recover from that risk should things go south (industry is cyclical or if you lose your medical). Also most accelerated programs and overpriced and predatory. Maybe have her try read the FAQ of this subreddit it’s really helpful good luck!
PullTheGreenRing@reddit
See if whatever airline she flies for has a program to help employees in training to be a pilot, I know some exist just not sure of the details.
Fast-Government-4366@reddit
I’ll be honest, it’s a big risk but, it’s a risk that often pays off.
You’ll likely get the advice you want here, but if it’s her dream I’d just encourage you to support it.
RealP4@reddit
I feel like he is supporting it. He’s just telling her to take a more reasonable approach. That 120K loan is a HUGE risk that as he said could ruin them.
Severe_Elderberry769@reddit
It may not be too late to be a pilot, but it sure is too late to ruin yourselves financially. Don’t take the loan.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
My wife, over the summer, spoke with a near retired woman pilot on one of her deadheads and at some point in that conversation the pilot told her it’s never too late to become a pilot.
Since then she’s become consumed with the idea of pursuing a career as an airline pilot. When she went on a discovery flight and got to fly a plane for herself, it solidified it and now she’s completely tunnel visioned from that high. And now she will do anything to achieve the dream. She wants no distractions because she’s in her mid 30s and wants it ASAP.
I support her dream to fly. I absolutely do not support her intended means to do it. I don’t know what kinds of loans exist for flight school, but I’d imagine they are predatory with double digit interest rates over 10-20 years and she’d end up paying well over double the borrowing amount, and basically no safety net, no job guarantee, and a high likelihood she might not even make it through an accelerated program. Fuck. That.
Would she even be approved for a loan that massive? Her credit score is mid 600s and she has a car and student loans as well. She’s a flight attendant making 40k/yr, while I’m a first year accountant making just under 60k/yr. And I refuse to co-sign that kind of loan that has a high potential to financially ruin us if even one small fuck up occurs in or out of her control. She can do everything right and there’s no guarantee we won’t be in a mess.
I’ve tried to explain all this to her but she keeps reassuring me that it will all be worth it in 7-10 years when she’s finally making six figures. She wants to go all the way rather than a modular route that I suggested (save up for a PPL first, then go from there), because she’s convinced she’s running out of time considering airline pilots must retire at 65 and she “needs” to be an airline pilot for 20 years.
She’s so fixated on the reward that it’s basically cope to avoid considering the real risks. Far too many risks and too little guarantees. I never thought in all our years together she’d be this reckless towards a goal, and I hate that I’m the sole voice of reason among all her friends and aviation colleagues encouraging her to chase the dream.
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