How has Mazda kept the Miata roughly the same weight for 35 years, and why don't other manufacturers follow?

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TheCanadianShield99@reddit

Just a small market. Lovely beautiful small market, but that has a lot to do with it.

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Kange109@reddit

Part of it is the Miata didnt bloat as much. From the time of the 1st Miata, the Civic has grown bigger than the early 90s Accord for example.

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I imagine the reason other manufacturers havent done it is because Mazda has spent millions of dollars engineering this car around this purpose and has made heavy sacrifices to get it done. Other manufacturers have seen that and probably assumed the juice isnt worth the squeeze. Rather than chasing extreme weight cutting measures it was cheaper to just make a more efficient less powerful engine. Rather than cutting features that may sell people on the car to keep weight down, theyd rather keep those features and accept the extra weight to increase the likelihood of a sale. They also may see the added weight and tech as a way to increase the sale price of the vehicle. Higher prices = more profits. Mazda has frequently tried to make the miata as affordable as possible because that was the original intent.

Basically other makes could do it, they choose not to. Why invest millions to enter into a section that is already dominated by one make and that there really isnt a high profit margin to begin with when you can just sell another massive truck or SUV for 3x as much and make a way bigger profit and have a way bigger audience.

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

Would argue the opposite.

Mazda is a small company. They don't have the funds to throw into R&D. This is why the NC and ND have had long life cycles. This is why the NC I bought in 2013 new had a terrible interior. It was a low grade interior for the mid 2000's and it aged poorly. Mazda had zero budget for updating it. Part of what paid for the ND development was Fiat. Was supposed to be Alfa originally. Now the new one is rumored to be a joint venture with Toyota.

Mazda isn't throwing money at the Miata. Mazda is being very selective about what gets put into it. It makes it cheaper and it makes it lighter.

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SlomoLowLow@reddit

If you think millions hasn’t gone into the research and development of the Miata, regardless of who is helping, you are sorely mistaken or have only driven a Miata.

I’ve driven tens of thousands of cars. Miata engineering is different than 99% of shit on the road and it tells in the way the cars drive.

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

I owned two *Miatas*. I have also owned a 914 and currently own a 2nd Gen Viper, Morgan 3 Wheeler and Mondial QV. I have lost count of how many I have driven. You can pipe down with your trying to one up me on experience. It is not buying you any cred, because your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Your problem is you think millions is a large number for the development of a car. Relatively speaking Mazda has a tiny budget. The budget for the miata is going to be smaller than their volume sellers. Relative to other car companies the budget is nothing. GM probably spent more on the engine development for the new ZR1 alone than mazda will spend on the next gen miata.

My bet is the NA adjusted for inflation had the largest budget being that it was designed during the Japanese bubble economy. The NB was done on a budget, as it is a warmed over NA. Not too dissimilar to the fourth gen mustang being a warmed over fox body. Ford's excuse is they blew their budget developing what became the probe and scrambled to make a RWD car with no money. Had Fiat not stepped in for the ND and now Toyota with the NE there is a good chance that the previous generations would have been stretched longer and a good chance that the Miata died altogether. Miata loves its sports cars, but they simply do not have much of a budget due to their size. This is why they toy around with an RX7 successor, but it never makes it to production.

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SlomoLowLow@reddit

Lmao well glad you have a bunch of old junk bud. Modern cars don’t drive like the Miata.

If millions isn’t so much to develop a car then where’s the car you’ve developed moneybags? You’re just arguing for the sake of arguing and personally I think it’s clown shoes. You should just sell the Miata. It’s for people that like to have fun and are decent people. That’s not you dog.

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KungFuActionJesus5@reddit

This is such a funny comment from someone who has almost exclusively posted to r/miata for the past 2 years. Like you're talking shit about how "modern cars don't drive like the miata" to someone who has owned 2 miatas and now owns a 914 and an sr2 viper. You're telling a viper owner that they don't like to have fun hahaha.

Like this person is making perfectly valid points about complex engineering and financial decisions and your only response is hyperbolic nonsense. Miatas are great, but they're not the end all be all of automotive perfection that you clearly think they are. You couldn't even defend the statement about how they drive differently if you tried.

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unmanipinfo@reddit (OP)

100% agree, Mazda deserve some complete respect for what they've done for car enthusiasts. Even in general Mazda deserve a lot of respect for caring about their consumers, it's genuinely very rare for a massive corporation in general to do that. I always respected Toyota for that also, their dedication to the reliability and affordability of their vehicles, but Mazda have done the exact same thing, and better, in the modern era.

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Tomato_Sky@reddit

Thanks for actually answering the question. Every car company seems to have “a sport sedan/coupe,” and what they choose to do with it varies.

I’m probably a Honda fanboy and I have to live with a company that doesn’t care at all what people want to drive, they put out the same boring models with enthusiasts highlighting what they’ve done right, but there’s 0 will to being back the S2000.

They tried to bring back the CrX with the CRZ and also decided that’s the model that would only get 110hp with a hybrid motor. We’ll see how the prelude works out, but word on the street is they priced out their fans.

Others brought up shrinking sports cars like the Camaro, but a Camaro is so different from a Mustang and Miata and WRX and M2.

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BSCA@reddit

CRX is my dream car. CRX just isn't the same. But new prelude has 200HP which sounds great. But probably for less money you can get the same drivetrain in a civic hybrid and way more functionality.

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JeffonFIRE@reddit

By making that their goal and focus. Everything in the miata is engineered to that weight target. That target allows them to make broad decisions in having even less weight, like having 4 lug wheels instead of 5.

Other manufacturers target choose to have bugger/heavier/more powerful engines, Fancy suspension tech, luxury/creature comforts, etc.

Everything in engineering is a tradeoff. Mazda chooses to focus on being small and light.

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weirdoldhobo1978@reddit

They know who buys the MX-5 and why they buy it. They know if the MX-5 gets bigger and heavier those customers will go elsewhere.

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NumberOneBacon@reddit

If everyone started saying the Miata needed more luggage space then it would grow. But people that do that are the reason that modern MINIs are too big and heavy.

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Downtown_Reward_6339@reddit

I’m sure everyone HAS said the Miata needs more luggage space. The difference is that Mazda knows they are wrong and that would ruin it.

Ford on the other hand has thrown everything everyone ask for at the Mustang and they’ve destroyed by making too big, too heavy, too impractical and too expensive. . . And now they don’t sell.

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jasonmoyer@reddit

Yeah, I think people forget that the Miata largely came about because they had a laser focus on the car they wanted to make instead of what people asked for. People are continuously asking for more power, a turbo, more space, etc. and Mazda just basically says "nah we're good". They have the best selling sportscar of all time, why change what works.

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samocamo123@reddit

The Ford Mustang (if you combine all body styles) is actually the best selling sports car of all time

To further that, the Mustang has sold nearly a million units in the past 10 years, while the Miata has only sold 1.2 million units in 36 years

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Kooky_Narwhal8184@reddit

Some Americans think the Mustang is a sports car, and some don't. NOBODY outside of the USA thinks the mustang is a sports-car.

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samocamo123@reddit

Why is it not a sports car?

If you say it can only go fast in a straight line, watch this video of a 2025 mustang dark horse (just a trim of the mustang, not some super modified or supercharged version) on the nurburgring

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LowerSlowerOlder@reddit

Historically a sports car is a two seat convertible. Some leeway can be given for a hardtop. None can be given for back seats. Sorry, not my rules.

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KungFuActionJesus5@reddit

Do you mean roadsters? Sports cars are about performance and convertibles compromise rigidity and weight.

None can be given for back seats.

RX-7, 300ZX, 911, 86/BRZ and I'm sure others I'm forgetting are all purebred sports cars with back seat options, if not standard.

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LowerSlowerOlder@reddit

Roadsters can be sports cars. And sports cars can be roadsters. I think. It’s very confusing. I think the 300Z was a GT and I don’t recall back seats in RX7s but the internet says they existed, so they must have. RX8s are weird because they not only had back seats, but also a third door but no convertible that I remember. Anyway, my response was more flippant than anything and paraphrased a C&D or R&T article that I read long ago.

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samocamo123@reddit

With that definition, the only sports cars being produced currently are the Miata and the Supra/Z4 (same platform)

(barring supercars and other very expensive luxury coupes like the Audi r8 or some Porsches)

Usually your definition only applies to the term roadster, atleast in modern usage, it's not like the back seat in a mustang or an M4 or any "sports" car is actually significant, they're tiny, it's just a bit of extra storage space or in case you have to have more than 1 passenger

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Kooky_Narwhal8184@reddit

Mustang came out in 64 or 65 and finally you have one that handles 60 years later? Wow!

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Much_Box996@reddit

The Mustang won the Trans-Am championship in 1970 with Parnelli Jones driving for the Bud Moore team. The Ford Mustang also won the manufacturer's championship in the very first SCCA Trans-Am season in 196

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DishRelative5853@reddit

The Mustang is not, and never has been, a sportscar.

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GoofyKalashnikov@reddit

Previously maybe not, ditching the solid axle only a decade or so ago certainly doesn't help it's case. But the last two gens can definitely be defined as sports cars.

Although it depends how you personally define a sports car, if it's something small and light then you're only left with a handful of cars these days (that are still produced), a lot of them being unobtainable unless you're rich or at the very least very well off.

Otherwise the Mustang has evolved far enough that it can rival the likes of the BMW M4

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DishRelative5853@reddit

Lots of people call it a muscle car. The "pony car" label has disappeared. The Mustang is a high-performance sports coupe, as is the M4.

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GoofyKalashnikov@reddit

Muscle cars are dead at this point

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DishRelative5853@reddit

Sure. But they're still around. Go over to the musclecars sub, and check out all the muscle cars, including a whole lot of Mustangs.

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Much_Box996@reddit

Most people disagree

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villhelmIV@reddit

Okay Ken Miles

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StraightOuttaCanton@reddit

Mazdaspeed Miata was a factory-turbocharged Miata model sold in the US for the 2004-2005 model years.

I didn’t know about these until I saw one in person and talked to the owner who was absolutely a “car guy”.

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Useful-Unit-2682@reddit

It would be interesting to see them drop in their turbo 4 from the Czech-9/5. I wonder if the plumbing would be too much. I haven’t drove one since the late 90’s. It was such a fun car to drive. Macgruber knew what he had.

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puskunk@reddit

Fun fact: there are no badges that say "Miata" on the mazdaspeed version.

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mmmmmyee@reddit

They literally did a turbo model partnered with fiat and didn’t really do all that well

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ARottenPear@reddit

The Fiat 124 is pretty much a Miata but it is still a Fiat by badge and uses a Fiat engine. The Fiat's suspension tuning is slightly different, has different rear end gearing, has more sound deadening, but really as far as mechanics go, the motor is the biggest difference. They're also both made in Japan.

Mazda did make an actual turbo Miata during the NB generation which was called the mazdaspeed Miata. It was kind of a swing and a miss and rumor has it, Mazda intentionally sandbagged the development because they didn't really want to make one. They caved to public "demand" and made a turbo Miata but made it kind of crappy. I'm not sure if that's the truth and I have a hard time believing Mazda would intentionally make anything bad but that's the story I've always heard. I still love them and have been on the causal hunt for one for years but they are not the most loved cars out there.

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ProfessorLGee@reddit

I admit that the Miata is never on my radar as a car I'd want (though I respect its mission), but I knew that the Mazdaspeed version existed for a while. What exactly made it bad?

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mmmmmyee@reddit

Modest gains for the money it fetched. 9 times out of ten you’re better off diy turboing a miata

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mmmmmyee@reddit

Thank you chatgpt

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Downtown_Reward_6339@reddit

Exactly, They kept the focus on what the car was supposed to be. They remembered what the car was about.

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jondes99@reddit

I think “focus” is the key word. As in, they don’t have a focus group telling them to make it bigger and bigger very generation.

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KennyGaming@reddit

Y'all just said the same thing like 8 times in a row lol

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jondes99@reddit

Focused observation.

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Monotask_Servitor@reddit

Yeah this is the answer. Relentless focus on the fundamentals by the Japanese group running it. And the stones to say no to US stakeholders when they ask for bigger engines and more space because it compromises that focus.

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NumberOneBacon@reddit

MINI should take notes. Maybe they should also get a Honda Fit into their studio to figure out how a small car can also be spacious inside

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BB703X@reddit

It’s too late for MINI.

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

Owned a 13 club spec and a 18 Abarth. Trunk was perfect for a single guy. Was perfect for dating with no kids. Never complained about trunk size. I shopped at costco on the regular and the only thing to mind was that if I was buying tp or paper towels that it went in the passenger seat.

I think a lot of people over estimate how much space they regularly need.

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Much_Box996@reddit

They sell much better than mx-5. Mustang sales are consistently higher than Miata sales. The difference is roughly six to one in 2023 and 2024

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Downtown_Reward_6339@reddit

In my perfect world everyone can buy the type of car they want. I love the Mustang, the 86, the Mx5.

I’m glad not everyone has been railroaded into SUV’s no matter how popular they are.

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Much_Box996@reddit

I agree, I wish there were more car options

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basar_auqat@reddit

I don't particularly like Steve jobs, but he was correct in stating that most consumers don't know what they want.

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samocamo123@reddit

Mustangs still sell just fine, they were (still) the best selling sports car in America last year and have been for awhile

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Downtown_Reward_6339@reddit

44,000 units - a 10th of what it was in the 60’s. Mustang didn’t used to be a sports car really. It was a fun car for people who wanted a sports car but maybe couldn’t fit one in their life.

My point was that it serves a different market than it once did.

Miata still serves its original customers.

Another great example is the Jeep Wrangler which has made tremendous GAINS in market share, by moving to a more mainstream focus. It’s certainly not what it was.

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invariantspeed@reddit

There’s a difference between what people think they want and what they actually want. I might say I wish there was more of this or that, but there might not be a way to do that without changing things I don’t want changed.

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Downtown_Reward_6339@reddit

Absolutely true ! ! You’ve got that right. Mazda has perhaps made a few missteps, but they correct. They know the cars mission ! They are laser focused on it.

In contrast to Ford who has added so much cost and weight, and taken away so much practicality that the average income guy can’t possibly afford to use it as his only car with 3 of his buddies like they did for generations.

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longlistofusednames@reddit

Reminds me of the Homer car.

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EscortSportage@reddit

Def way too expensive now it’s tragic.

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Howard_CS@reddit

From a Mazda as a manufacturer, the MSRP of the 1990 NA base model was around $14,000. Accounting for inflation that same amount has the buying power of $35,000 today. Coincidentally current sport model MSRP is a bit less than that.

I’m not saying it’s cheap, but relatively, they haven’t tried jacking up the price much.

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EscortSportage@reddit

I was talking about the new Mustangs

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TheNamesSnek@reddit

As per the other comment, a new miata is cheaper today than it was in 1990. Given the quality & engineering of the car, the price is almost the most impressive achievement here.

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shadow247@reddit

I made the same argument about a 2001 4Runner Limited vs a 2024 TRD Pro. Adjusted for inflation the 2024 Pro is cheaper and has better features and its not even close.

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TranslatorOutside909@reddit

There is a entire sub on Miami logistics. We pride ourselves making things fit

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coffeebribesaccepted@reddit

Man if a Miata had slightly more trunk space I'd buy one so fast though

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OverallManagement824@reddit

You can buy a trunk rack.

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PersonNumber7Billion@reddit

I don't know about newer models, but my NA has a 22lb. limit on the rack, so it can't handle very much. Still, I agree that trunk space isn't the deciding factor for most people.

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trivialempire@reddit

Bullshit.

Trunk space is NOT keeping you from buying a Miata.

More likely, a wife, finances, or garage space is.

Not trunk space.

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K_Linkmaster@reddit

Just. A. Little. Taller. My head doesn't fit.

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Slappathebassmon@reddit

Just open the roof up, dude. /s

r/miatalogistics

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K_Linkmaster@reddit

And take off the sun visor. Blah. Blah blah. I'm not new to this.

If I have to go roofless why not have more fun and get a Cappuccino.

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JCDU@reddit

There's a story that was on the old SniffPetrol, it may or my not be legend - but after the success of the new Mini a team from BMW held a meeting at Cowley announcing they were going to make a range of larger models and were going to call it the Maxi.

Cue a shy cough from the back of the room and someone having to very carefully and politely explain why that may not be the greatest idea in marketing.

So now everything is a Mini no matter how big it is.

For those who don't know, the Austin Maxi was not a good car.

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Daddysheremyluv@reddit

They avoided the whole Mini making cars bigger and even marketing how large they are

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cuminabox74@reddit

Mini was never going to work out. The Mini Cooper is a cool car, but it’s not a premium car. People who have money for a cool fun car on the side also have enough money for a premium cool fun car on the side. People who do not have money for a cool fun car on the side can’t afford to have a cool fun impractical car as their main car. To work, Mini either had to move upmarket, like the DBA version, or move mass market, which they did, and which means also moving away from the whole actually being mini thing.

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Monotask_Servitor@reddit

The original mini was tiny and mass market and wildly successful. Mini’s problem was more that they painted themselves into a corner by going upmarket when they relaunched the brand.

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Cragscorner@reddit

Mazda 3 faced something similar IMO… went upmarket when I think people bought that car for a practical, fun daily that had some of the trickle down swag from the Miata. the 3 has gotten less practical with the fourth gen while also becoming a little less “fun” to drive by being way quieter inside, focus on not disturbing the driver, torsion beam (and yes I know it’s a good torsion beam but people are coping when they say it doesn’t matter), more cramped hatch space, and a focus on a “premium” space…

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kingcrabsuited@reddit

Or... those Japanese engineers would figure out how to finally make the Miata hatchback!

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tysonfromcanada@reddit

whoever is in charge of the mx project seems to understand the difference between knowing what people want and asking them what they want.

Neither is wrong but the result is certainly different.

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weirdoldhobo1978@reddit

People on Reddit like to bitch about Mazda fans but the reason there are so many Mazda fans is that they're very good at making their customers feel heard and that builds loyalty. Mazda knows when that loyal MX-5 buyer decides they need more cargo space and seating, it'll be easier to upsell them to a 3 or a CX rather than change their beloved MX-5 into something they don't recognize.

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drjellyninja@reddit

From what I can tell driving around, the people who buy the MX-5 are old men who want a cheap attractive convertible, I don't actually think they'd mind if it gained some weight. Many other driver focused cars have gained weight as the average new car buyers age increased, and with it the desire for creature comforts. I think in the case of the MX-5 it really is the vision of the designers that keeps it light and that comes through when you read interviews with them. Luckily the same design philosophy that keeps it light also keeps it cheap, so it kind of works for it's market niche

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

It falls into the camp of either old men who want a second toy car or young men who will sacrifice to own a sports car.

Source formerly a young man who had a 13 club spec and then an 18 abarth as their sole car.

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Qtrfoil@reddit

Old men drive the cars they wanted to drive when they were 20, before bills and families got in the way. They're not trying to be someone new, they're trying to be, finally, the people they always were. If they wanted a bigger and heavier car then they wouldn't buy a Miata.

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drjellyninja@reddit

What other option do they have for a cheap attractive convertible besides a Miata? I think it's hard to say they'd buy a heavier car if they wanted it because no heavier car fills those other three criteria. The ND also has much softer springs then it needs to and although Mazda people will insist that this is for performance reasons I think everyone knows it's because older drivers might not buy it if it rode like a BRZ. I think the fact that the RF sells so well with older drivers despite being over 100kg heavier also supports my argument

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Monotask_Servitor@reddit

Aftermarket springs are cheap and people who want performance are always prepared to mod- so going softer on the factory springs is smart, because people generally won’t go the other way- if they test drive that car and it rides too firm they’ll just buy something else.

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Qtrfoil@reddit

People don't buy Miatas because there aren't any other choices: there aren't any other choices because people buy Miatas.

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drjellyninja@reddit

You used to be able to buy an S2000, an MR2 Spyder, a Pontiac solstice, a 350z roadster, and now you can buy none of those. Sure you can tell a story where they all died because they couldn't compete with the Miata but that's not convincing because the Miata hasn't replaced the sales volume of all those cars combined. The real story is that the market shrunk to the point where there was no room left for anything but the Miata, and the main reason it shrunk is because young people can't afford new cars anymore

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LowerSlowerOlder@reddit

There is no where else to go.

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Historical-Use-3006@reddit

I love my ND. Perfect little car when I need a smile.

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JizzBreezy@reddit

If Mazda had more leg and head room I’d do buy one. 6’6 problems

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Xyzzydude@reddit

One of the ways Mazda has kept it pure is by being willing to say “well we guess it’s not for you, sorry”

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zeushaulrod@reddit

Yeah one of my best friends is your size, I'm well under 6'.

He's jealous of my car fitting ability.

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JizzBreezy@reddit

Yup. Tried it as a loaner when I brought my car in for maintenance. First question I asked was, does the seat go back further. It in fact did not and my knees were PRESSED again the steering wheel and dash

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big_gumby@reddit

I’m not as big as you at 6’4 and I’ve owned 7 Miata’s. The ND (newest generation) is the worst for leg room the NC 07-15 is probably the most spacious. It’s also known as the pig and the only 5 lug Miata.

I have a lotus exige seat and aftermarket brackets in my car (NB 2004) and I fit really well, all things considered. There are plenty of dudes in the 6’6-6’8 range that fit with aftermarket seats.

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zeushaulrod@reddit

Leg length is huge though.

My dad is 6'1" with a 36" inseam. Miatas are painful for him.

If you're a 32" inseam, you're fine.

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Monotask_Servitor@reddit

Yeah I’m 6’0 and 30”-32” and I fit my NA comfortably,

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big_gumby@reddit

I have a 35 inch inseam. I wear 36 though.

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HorsieJuice@reddit

I sat in one at the dealer. After two seconds, I was like “oh ok,” got out and never looked back.

The C8 Corvette, OTOH, felt REALLY good with the top off. It’s too bad I think they’re ugly and I don’t have remotely enough money to buy one, because it’s easily the best-fitting car I’ve ever tried.

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JizzBreezy@reddit

Oh I got out. And I kept looking back lol

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SEKPopulist@reddit

Are there any aftermarket seat brackets or anything?

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NoodlesRomanoff@reddit

Yes- different seats, seat brackets. Big guys in Spec Miata have a replacement floor pan that lowers the seat 4”.

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Smart-Difficulty-454@reddit

Don't know what you're talking about I'm nearly 5'4" and fit fine

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JizzBreezy@reddit

I think it’s cause I’m pretty leggy. But only sat in the ND and been hearing that’s the least spacious. So ymmv

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PurpleSausage77@reddit

They could add weight if they wanted and it would still come in as the lightest sports car. I suppose the weight range of a Miata does go as high as 2600lbs for a power retractable roof equipped model. Still low. My base 2013 FRS/86 is at 2700lbs.

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Sea_Dust895@reddit

KYC at its finest.

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Viper-Reflex@reddit

Then why doesn't it have a lightweight engine? Pretty sure the 3sGTE weighs less than a miata engine and it qualified at 600hp in group b rally and is a non interference engine. If the timing belt snaps it won't grenade itself

Show me a Corvette that won't instantly die if the timing chain snaps lol

How again does Mazda focus on weight AND quality?

The Miata is just a parts bin bargain car where Mazda buys the leftover scraps from other cars and makes a new car out of it.

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C4Cole@reddit

3 things, first is emissions. You're not getting a 3S engine Euro 6 compliant very easily and once you've got all the extra bits fitted it wont be as light anymore.

Secondly, cost. If it was a good financial decision, I'm sure the bean counters at Mazda would tell the engineers to make a lighter engine instead of lightening the rest of the car, clearly, that's not the case.

Thirdly, basically every modern engine is going to be an interference engine, you just can't have the crazy compression ratios we have now with cutouts in the pistons adding more volume. And if you want better performance you need more valve lift, which needs even bigger cutouts or it stops being a non interference engine.

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ScaryfatkidGT@reddit

The 3rd gen was heavier, the 4th gen made a lot of weight saving advances, less glass where you can’t see it… heavy use of aluminum etc
Most cars have gotten physically larger by quite a bit, the Miata is absolutely tiny by todays standards.

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Specialist-Size9368@reddit

NC was 2500lbs. Everyone likes to call it that fat one, but it really wasn't that much heavier.

ND went too light. This is why they kept having to redesign the transmission as it kept breaking.

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Word_Underscore@reddit

Camaro also has less visibility than any prior generations lol

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jccaclimber@reddit

Which frankly is saying something. That damn sail panel.

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ScaryfatkidGT@reddit

Better than a Lambo

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RequirementQuirky763@reddit

“Heavy” use of aluminum eh?

: D

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rockysilverson@reddit

It's small and large heavy people don't fit.

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Informal_Data5414@reddit

Pretty wild how Mazda managed to keep the Miata light while adding all that safety tech. Shows some serious engineering discipline. Most brands just keep adding bulk. Wouldn’t mind having CarShield on one of those older models though, parts aren’t getting any cheaper!

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Puzzleheaded_Card_71@reddit

They say no. The worst thing you can do is listen to enthusiasts. Do that and you end up with big, fast, heavy and expensive cars that don’t sell.

It’s a simple formula with focus on weight, period. Aluminum not steel. Small interior. Moderate power. Balance.

Look at how every review complains about how slow Miata are, and how cramped they are. Oh well, pound sand.

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Upstairs-Result7401@reddit

Because that is what their paying customers want.

Other car companies follow suit, and load up cars with all sorts of wizardry.

I want a smaller 1/2 ton short bed truck, but the vast majority want a crew cab 1/2 ton that tows 10,000 pounds.

If you watch automotive forums or posts. You will see people say they always want a simple car again. Guess what? 99% really don't.

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jasonsong86@reddit

Because the car stayed roughly the same size. They are tiny cars.

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Murdoc427@reddit

Alluminium

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india2wallst@reddit

Savagegeese has a very in depth documentary with the engineers and design team. It's a good resource to understand the design philosophy.

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MissUnderstood62@reddit

Also this car should be sold as a manual transmission only. My pet peeve in life is people buying an automatic Miata, should be illegal.

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Redsoulsters@reddit

Generally I agree. But I have run into a guy at a meet who had several leg surgeries and can’t manage a clutch,….I’m glad they built an Automatic for him!

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MissUnderstood62@reddit

Well he gets a pass and I feel like a bit of an ahole for not thinking about people with disabilities who still enjoy a fun drive.

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sreesid@reddit

Haha. Don't be harsh on yourself. I do like that fact that people who can't drive manuals still get to enjoy the handling, but I agree shifting gears is half the fun in a Miata.

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Redsoulsters@reddit

NP, I was right there with you till I ran into this guy

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revocer@reddit

Is the Miata really that fun to drive?

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sreesid@reddit

Yes, especially a stick shift. I drove one daily for 6 years and I still miss it.

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Major_Turnover5987@reddit

I don't like driving manuals nor 4 cylinder engines. The Miata being the ONLY exception as it is a blast to drive and so easy.

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revocer@reddit

What makes the S2000 a pain to fix?

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CumIsntVegan@reddit

Packaging, there are some common failures and things you would expect to wear out that are buried and the engine bay is pretty tight. As of late, probably parts availability, there was a lot on those that was bespoke to the car.

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shemphoward62@reddit

Absolutely.........if i have a bad day at work....i find an excuse to jump in the Miata and put a smile on my face.....

If i am having a good day....i make it even better by hopping in the Miata and going somewhere....

I live in western New York....we take every opportunity and make up every excuse to get a Miata ride in during the summer....come winter i sulk because the Miata is tucked away in the garage ..

I am certain most other Miata owners would agree...they are just a fun little car to enjoy driving.

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Hoslap@reddit

The ND2 is the most fun and engaging car I've ever driven.

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____zoomzoom@reddit

go to carmax and test drive one. see for yourself.

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PM_ME_UR_SM0L_BOOBS@reddit

Yes

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pirate123@reddit

Heavier means higher price and bigger profits. My wife fell for it and bought a SUV, like her sisters. Lots more expensive purchase and fuel.

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Secret-Writer5687@reddit

People buy very few small cars these days, size and weight..

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PckMan@reddit

The market for coupes and fun cars was destroyed in 2008 and never recovered. There's not enough room for them in the market any more, definitely not enough for nearly every manufacturer to have an offering like it was back then. But that doesn't mean demand is zero and the Miata is one of the last remaining ones to have survived.

Mazda is not blind to these facts and so they make a point of preserving the qualities that made it a best seller in the first place. It's built with a central focus on weight. Everything else is negotiable but that isn't. You'd be surprised to see what can be accomplished with a dedicated team and a car that's not aimed to have mass market appeal. Lotus did the same thing for the Elyse and they had much less compromise in terms of price, and a much lighter car as a result.

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seajayacas@reddit

Buyers of the mass produced vehicles seem to want larger cars. If they didn't, sales of the smallest cars in a manufacturer's fleet would boon while the largest tanked.

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Redsoulsters@reddit

The cars generally get bigger over time because our asses get bigger,…. The rest of us too. The average adult weighs about 30 lbs more than they did in the 1960’s.

Mazda has a bit of a “ if you’re too big, it’s not for you “ attitude.

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seajayacas@reddit

That is a big part of it as we all are carrying more weight. Also, we are getting back to the times before the 1970's Arab oil embargos.

Before that happened cars were pretty big and most buyers wanted them big because they rode better than the small cars and gasoline was plentiful and cheap, like 35 cents a gallon in the early 1970's.

By the early 1980's gasoline was well over a dollar a gallon and folks were looking for smaller and more efficient vehicles. We have seemingly moved back now to the old days when bigger is better.

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90210fred@reddit

Actually, I'd argue that it's Mazda that have copied someone else. If you check out the production run out the Lotus / Caterham 7 (and to a lesser, various Morgan's) you can see the thought process. As others have said, they are working too a target market which they've pretty much nailed.

PS don't even think about a 7 unless you can cope with things like "windows" being optional!

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SailingSpark@reddit

Being small helps. As a two seater with no roof, what weight it has is down low. The Miata also used such wizardry as the Power plant frame that rigidly secured the differential to the transmission, independently from the car itself. This allowed for a lighter body because it was not forced to keep the car rigid under acceleration.

They have also made good use of aluminum and other lightweight materials in places where it does not take away from the structure of the car. Hood, doors, and trunk. Being a roadster with a fabric top, it does not need all the sound deadening. Other things like HVAC can be smaller due to the tiny size of the cockpit, and of course the fabric roof itself is lighter than a steel one. No need for a headlighter or even rear side windows. Up to 2015 the standard rear window was vinyl too.

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_Phail_@reddit

I do remember reading a thing saying that a hard top is, counter intuitively, lighter than a soft top because there's additional stiffening needed on the rest of the body because the roof does a lot of work in keeping everything from twisting

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JCDU@reddit

True - look at any soft-top it's quite heavy fabric to start with, then you need a support frame, then you need all the mountings, somewhere to tuck it away, many are moved by heavy electric motors, etc. etc. and none of this offers any structural rigidity to the car.

A sheet of steel is thin, quite light, and turns the car from a tub into a box - much stiffer. And that's before you make the roof out of something light like aluminium or composite.

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Advocaatastrophe@reddit

If you design a car from the ground up to be a soft top convertible, the weight penalty is significantly less than if you start with a non-convertible hard top and turn it into a convertible.

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Roonil-B_Wazlib@reddit

Elise is a good example for this. It’s designed as a targa top.

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KilroyKSmith@reddit

This is true. But the penalty is smaller for a smaller car, and the convertible top is one of the joys of the Miata.

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SteveHofmeyr@reddit

Go watch the Gordon Murray video about design of his McLarens.

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Treewithatea@reddit

Other manufacturers do try to maintain the weight as good as they can, take a VW Golf or a Porsche 911. These did gain weight (and size) over time but they also increased in complexity and features. Bigger and better engines, more safety, more electronics, the Mazda has always remained a simple car. The reason others dont follow it is probably because the market for a Miata isnt very big and they likely dont make much money with it.

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Massive-Ride204@reddit

What I love about the Miata is that Mazda knows exactly what the Miata is and isn't supposed to be

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Benderbluss@reddit

To answer more of "why don't other manufacturers?"

As people age, what they want in a car changes. They generally want more comfort, more features, and physically larger cars.

So when you spend millions marketing your sports car to 20 year olds in 1990, by 2015 that name brand recognition is now with 45 year olds. And they might want the car that they lusted after when they were young, but they have the preferences of a middle aged person.

This is one reason why car models often start off stripped down and focused, and gradually migrate towards land barges with a cool name.

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CertifiedBlackGuy@reddit

WRX and many others are all within like 500lb of each other across generations. The gap gets closer depending on options.

I think a lot of people are comparing vehicle types or changes (e.g. sedans being brought back as CUVs) to generations. I'm not sure of any models that increased by 1000lbs or some number large enough to warrant asking this question when you actually take a moment to Google the weights of cars across generations 🤷

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unmanipinfo@reddit (OP)

I think you have a point. I think the bulkiness of enhanced structural crash safety leads people, such as me, to assume much heavier weight when that isn't always the case - and definitely the CUV horror show you mentioned

That said drag racers would kill to shave 500lb off a vehicle, it's not neglible

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CertifiedBlackGuy@reddit

True, but almost every modern generation does what the car of 30 years ago did, but better. The weight gain doesn't make much difference in a stock v stock comparison.

And the older cars tend to win out modded v modded simply because they either A) have less complexity, which makes it easier to slap on power or B) have a much larger aftermarket base to work with.

The Camaro SS from 2010 spanks the 1999 SS, for example (these were the years I googled to check curb weights, I know the VB WRX vs the blobeye because I have a VB. And we make more power/$ than any other WRX because we're so detuned from the factory 😉)

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unmanipinfo@reddit (OP)

Oh yeah for sure, power/efficiency have hit a peak in modern times. Road feel, chassis feel, simplicity and reliability haven't. Handling in general depends, dedicated performance cars definitely handle better, but a 90's econo shitbox would absolutely dogwalk a modern econo shitbox on a track today. Weight is a huge part of that.

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Kapurnicus@reddit

I have no proof of this other than physics and my intuition.

Other sports cars have more HP at the wheel than they used to. Requires weight to keep traction. Don't want to just burnout every time you push the peddle. Try dropping a hellcat engine with the same gear ratio in something that weights half as much and you'll never be able to take off.

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savvaspc@reddit

Totally not how it works. Weight never gives you speed. Increased weight does indeed increase friction, but it increases the tendency of the car to resist turning much more. So it is always a net loss. That's why you see racing teams obsess over dropping every possible grammar.

For acceleration the difference is not so extreme, but still it takes a lot of force to push a heavy object. Making it lighter is always better. You can play with weight balance in order to optimize where that weight sits (dragsters have all their weight on the back), but it's always good to have less of it.

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beastpilot@reddit

Only if you don't trade off other things. The fastest vehicles in the world are not go karts. You need horsepower first, then weight reduction. Race cars are generally limited in engines, so they focus on weight after that.

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savvaspc@reddit

They're also not semi trucks :)

An F2 car is not much more than a go kart with a couple of wings and a few more cylinders. We're changing lots of parameters now, the wheelbase, the differential (a go kart doesn't have it), suspension, etc.

But if we're simply talking about acceleration, the result is clear: If your engine is strong enough to spin your wheels, you are traction-limited and weight does not play a role. Lower weight means lower traction, but the inertia is reduced by the same amount, so the final acceleration is the same.

When you start getting faster speeds and higher rpm, the engine power is indeed the limiting factor. Then at some point aero drag is what defines your top speed and the necessary engine power needed to overcome this is much higher.

Cornering is a whole different story that needs more analysis.

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beastpilot@reddit

You literally commented about turning in the second sentence. Plenty of street cars that weigh 1.5x as much as a Miata that are much quicker in drag racing and road racing. Because they have way more horsepower. The Miata keeps light weight partially by being fairly low powered as well.

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savvaspc@reddit

Mate I never said the Miata Is the fastest car or that anything heavier is dumb. All I'm saying is pure weight gain does not aid traction. Of course power is gonna limit you. More power gives more weight due to materials, not by design.

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Qtrfoil@reddit

No engineer ever adds "weight to keep traction." Never.

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SeminoleVictory@reddit

Maybe for a tractor

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beipphine@reddit

The 427 Shelby Cobra only weighs 2,400 lbs despite packing a 7L V8 that made 600 horsepower. As for taking off, it was one of the quickest cars of its era.

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beastpilot@reddit

The Shelby cobra would never pass emissions or safety in 2025 and was a very expensive car in its day.

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n0t_4_thr0w4w4y@reddit

Because they made everything inside as light and cheap as possible. Best example of this is the flip down sunshades/vanity mirrors

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nolongerbanned99@reddit

My son just got a 1999 Miata with 57k miles. When he drives he said it feels like everyone is accelerating around him and the suvs are bug and imposing. All true but I think it’s just because the Miata is so small. 2200 lbs. I read that this is the same target for the next redesign. Which is interesting bc automakers like bmw say they can’t make a 3 series around e46 weight (3300 lbs) because of all the govt regs. Apparently bs.

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SkullLeader@reddit

Used to drive a ‘99. It freaks you out at first because you are so low to the ground everything towers above you. Also makes you feel faster than you are.

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nolongerbanned99@reddit

Indeed I feel like we are speeding when we are not.

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No_Rain_1543@reddit

Mazda followed Lotus' playbook

"simplify, then add lightness"

Seriously, the additional weight added by safety systems etc is offset by materials used and not including trivial extras

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Novogobo@reddit

well first off it hasn't remained the same weight. it got heavier and heavier with the 2nd and 3rd iterations. and 2 it started out a couple hundred pounds overweight as it had an iron block and kept having an iron block for way way too long. one of the ways the ND lost so much weight is they finally went to an aluminium block.

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Potential-Ant-6320@reddit

Well the NA and NB are virtually the same car with only minor differences. NC was significantly bigger but the ND went down in weight. The answer is that more or less it only got bigger once.

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1988rx7T2@reddit

You can start with sacrificing comfort. There’s no glove box for one, and barely an armrest in the door. I had an ND2 for a couple years but that stuff wears on you after a few hours driving .

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Carlpanzram1916@reddit

They made a very conscious effort to do so. Sure there are a lot of legal requirements to make the car heavier but there’s also a lot of somewhat expensive materials that allow the car to get lighter. Since they don’t actually care about making the car faster or more powerful, they can keep the power train inexpensive and spend a bit on trimming weight from the chasis.

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Far_Chocolate_8534@reddit

It’s called the gram method. It’s a thing. Save grams where you can. They eventually add up to kilograms. Like cutting holes in the bottoms of window glass (the portion that stays non-visible below the trim), using open ended lug nuts instead of closed, using plastic instead of aluminum (like an oil filter housing), etc.

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travielane42069@reddit

Most manufacturers are trying to build cars to do everything, and Mazda hasn't. They focused on making a small and light roadster and not an all around daily

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allenrfe@reddit

Most people who buy cars dont even know why a cars weight matters. Most Miata buys do understand. Its thst simple.

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Blu_yello_husky@reddit

The miatas weight hasn't changed in 30 years because the car has hardly changed. Look at the 1st and 2nd gen; theyre practically the exact same car with minor updates. Then look at the 3rd gen one. It looks basically the same as the 2nd gen, just with slightly more modern styling!

Other companies dont do this because customers dont like this. Buying a bew car in 2025 thats basically the exact same as a car from 1995 just feels like youre overpaying for a warmed over, outdated design. We already saw this same thing happen with cadillac in the 90s. The 1990-1992 cadillac brougham was just a 1977-1979 fleetwood with some extra tech and modern features - and it didnt sell for shit because of it.

People who buy new cars want NEW cars. Not 30 year old cars with a shiny new coat of paint and a few updates here and there

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AccomplishedNail3085@reddit

They filled it with helium

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BeTomHamilton@reddit

They didn't fill the MX-5 with helium - they filled the RX-8 with hydrogen!

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EffectiveFace3047@reddit

Because they didn’t supersize it

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jzclipse@reddit

Because the car matters that much to the company. It says a lot and I will own an Nd2 or the NE(?) when it drops.

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Dave_A480@reddit

Because the Miata doesn't have to appeal to the families-with-kids demo, except maybe as an extra car...

So it didn't have to get bigger to fit kids-in-carseats.

Further, there is essentially no desire for any of the frills and non-mandatory safety features that have bulked up 4+pax traveling vehicles....

So they can build a 4-wheeled motorcycle and it will sell... But a 4-door version would not.

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RDOG907@reddit

Because the market isn't big for small coupe convertibles (in the USA market anyway) and Mazda has it cornered on price and lbh brand/name recognition.

The only other competitor in the market is in the luxury segment with the BMW Z4, and that is about 1000 lbs heavier but has a turbocharged motor and is more (relatively) comfortable.

Mazda also only has two car models in the car segment with no high-performance car models to worry about so they can throw more engineering power at the two cars they offer.

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RicVic@reddit

Honda's S2000 gave it a try, but Honda went for toys and complications, ramping up the cost.

After 2009, the Miata became the only game in town.

(In Canada, a relaunch of Fiat looked promising, but sputtered badly)

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NeedleGunMonkey@reddit

Mazda makes tradeoffs that the average consumer won’t accept but will accept for Miata.

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Over_Pizza_2578@reddit

Still minimalist compared to other current cars

Still relatively small

Added complexity from modern electronics and bigger other dimensions have been compensated by more modern materials, for example aluminium engine instead of a cast iron block

Other cars have even lost weight over the years. Toyota supra mk3 was a little heavier than the mk4 and the mk5 has shaved a good chunk of weight. Although the mk5 is not as complex for the time as they other two were, especially the mk3. That one had cruise control, automatic ac, speed dependant power steering, was actually a 5 seater, one of Toyotas first turbocharged cars. Nothing of that was a given im the 80s. T tops didn't help with weight either nor being Japanese made (sometimes they went a little too robust, the hood weighs a fuckton)

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AdultContemporaneous@reddit

I don't know, but there's a reason I bought a new one in 2025, and it's because it's practically the same thing as the original from 35 years ago.

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762n8o@reddit

Importantly the target audience driving the end goal and priorities

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RJsRX7@reddit

It's less outright wizardry and more active focus. The argument I heard both for and against the NC simultaneously while it was the newest Miata was that it was the best car of the Miatas, but the worst Miata... And I would consider that accurate.

Other vehicles have suffered from bloat through the years, and the NC was a taste of the Miata doing the same. The ND was really designed to be a return to 1989, including the 1.5L engine used in markets not the US, and the end result is a car that's pretty much completely glorious to drive albeit completely worthless for anything other than moving 1-2 people places.

I also feel like safety standards get a bad reputation for the lazy solutions we used as they came in. It's not so much that they can't be met without adding undue weight and more that there isn't much of a way to take an existing structure and add safety without simply adding material.

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Astramael@reddit

They heeded the rocket equation. The idea that as weight goes up, the amount of fuel you need to carry causes the weight to go up, increasing the amount of fuel you need to carry.

The same is true, in a different way, with cars. As you make the car heavier you need to use heavier and stronger suspension components, driveline components, larger brakes, heavier tires, and so on, which all also increases the weight of the car, therefore requiring heavier components. Also as the weight goes up the amount of energy you need to dissipate in a crash also goes up, which means you need more robust safety systems which also adds weight.
The Miata is a bespoke chassis. It was engineered specifically for that mission and only that car. Therefore everything can be designed just heavy enough, just strong enough, just big enough for that application. The platform doesn’t need to extend to another larger vehicle that weighs more. For a specific example, 6th gear in a Miata is 1:1, there is no overdrive. To compensate for that the final drive is a surprisingly tall 2.866 unit, this keeps the gears smaller and the driveline more efficient (although it does cause robustness issues!).

3. Extensive use of aluminum, a “gram strategy” looking for weight everywhere, the car is very small, and the car is quite limited in features as more features add more weight.

All of the above combined to make it an impressively focused, capable, and lightweight car. It’s kind of amazing, especially if you look at the underside.

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Dedward5@reddit

Most cars as they bring out the new model, they want it to be “even roomier” “even more luxurious” “‘more power” and this just adds weight. I have seen a few times the marketing people say “but our buyers are getting older and want….” Mazda seem to have avoided falling into that trap, and kept the vision what it was.

Still, even 955 kilos is a bit lardy ;-)

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hatred-shapped@reddit

Check out the interview with Dave Colman.

https://youtu.be/pdZaArV4wEY?si=91lF5qWtXfPesJ4N