What English language rule still doesn’t make sense you, even as an US born citizen?
Posted by GossipBottom@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 659 comments
02K30C1@reddit
I before E, except after C. It’s just weird.
Particular_Bet_5466@reddit
Yeah except also in a bunch of words like conscience
02K30C1@reddit
Weird
Jelopuddinpop@reddit
You gotta finish the phrase... "I before E, except after C, or when sounding like A, as in neighbor and weigh"
livin4donuts@reddit
And also disregard science for this rule
Otherwise-Offer1518@reddit
I have for years misspelled science because of this rule.
sadrice@reddit
Just learn Latin. Then you will spell your science words right but your English wrong. Very handy.
Otherwise-Offer1518@reddit
I am a pharmacy tech half the stuff we see is shorthand Latin. Then AP Bio 1 & 2 and various nursing, French, and writing classes. I get the Latin roots but I was talking about when I was like 12.
perscoot@reddit
It’s easier when you break it up by syllable, though admittedly even that isn’t a flawless strategy. Sci-ence. Sci is an open syllable, so spelled with i at the end. Ence you can remember by the short e sound, and soft c needs e after it, else it’ll make the hard c sound.
Particular_Bet_5466@reddit
That doesn’t seem to work for conscience
Otherwise-Offer1518@reddit
I get it now, but as a kid I was like wtf
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
The “rule” doesn’t apply to science.
jawshoeaw@reddit
That’s odd because science is spelled how it’s pronounced .
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Agreed. You don’t need the “I before E” rule for science. It’s phonetic.
voteblue18@reddit
When I was a child my mom taught me a bizarre mnemonic for spelling science. I’m not sure if she made it up herself, she may have because it’s weird. Suzy Came In Eating Nancy’s Coconut Egg.
Weird, but it worked. I never misspelled it again.
SnooChocolates2923@reddit
Watch this video on "brian regan i before e" https://share.google/AormaYBbiizj1rcHY
godzillabobber@reddit
Apparently everybody just mispronounces it. It should be pronounced with that A making it indistinguishable from that metaphysical party event known as a seance.
FlyByPC@reddit
It comes from the Latin "scientia," where the C is pronounced. That makes it easier to remember the spelling, for me at least.
Dirges2984@reddit
And wierd is weird for some reason.
Guilty_Objective4602@reddit
And also weird, because it has a weird spelling. (And a bunch of other words.)
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
The rule doesn’t apply to science or weird (or most of the words throw out as “exceptions”).
molotovzav@reddit
Science isn't English so it makes sense it doesn't follow English spelling rules.
Fodraz@reddit
More importantly, it's 2 syllables: sci ence. The usual rule is for when the ie or ei is one sound.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Yep. This is the answer. The rule only applies to ei/ie digraphs, not to e/I pronounced separately.
sigusr3@reddit
Of course it's English. It's of non-Germanic origin, but so are a lot of English words. It's not like it's a recent borrowing; it's been around since Middle English.
Do you expect the kids this rule is taught to to know etymology? And "weird" words if you want one of Germanic origin.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
It’s helpful to have the fuller rhyme, but also to remember that it only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”) So words like “science” and “weird” don’t come into play at all because the e/i are pronounced separately.
People keep trying to force the rule onto words that it doesn’t apply to. It has a relatively narrow scope.
printergumlight@reddit
The rule honestly only applies to words where the sound after the consonant is /ee/.
So “believe” vs “ceiling”. Both make the same /ee/ sound, but the “i” is before the “e”, except after the “c”.
In words like “science” and “conscience” the “ie” represents two separate vowels sounds so the spelling matches the pronunciation of each vowel sound. “Sci - ence” = /ˈsaɪ.əns/.
iimuffinsaur@reddit
I never even proceded science and one of those words. I think I split the word
ksink74@reddit
And your conscience.
quasifun@reddit
I’m American, this comes naturally
bothunter@reddit
That's really weird.
H1landr@reddit
No... It's I before e except after and e before n in chicken.
ForgetTheRuralJuror@reddit
or weird or seize or seismology. The real rule is, there is no rule.
BorisTheHangman@reddit
and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and YOU'LL ALWAYS BE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!!!!
Exciting_Bee7020@reddit
and in weird words like... weird
commanderquill@reddit
I think I've only heard the last half once.
AnUdderDay@reddit
And on weekends, and holidays, and all throughout May
Vachic09@reddit
And you'll always be wrong no matter what you say
meanyapickles@reddit
MOOSEN‼️
SnooChocolates2923@reddit
Many much moosen!
Germans, Germaine!
Tito!
macthecomedian@reddit
The big yellow one is the SUN!!
SnooChocolates2923@reddit
That's real good! Copernicus!
ghunt81@reddit
A boxen of donuts.
Saw him live last year and he is hilarious. Love Brian Regan
ThatInAHat@reddit
Meece wantin the foods. The foods is for eatineninez…
rockninja2@reddit
It's a cup.... With dirt in it. I call it "Cup of Dirt."
laissez_heir@reddit
Came here looking for this. Well played.
lorgskyegon@reddit
Except for February, which has 28
Scoundrels_n_Vermin@reddit
"And on Sundays and holdiays, and all throughout May, and you'll always be wrong no matter what you say."
frankfromsales@reddit
My first name has an “e-i” and this rule makes everyone misspell it.
da_chicken@reddit
Leisure. Seizure.
There's no hard rules.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Well, there are patterns. Three of the words you gave are exceptions to the pattern, but “heist” doesn’t fit the pattern to begin with (so the “rule” doesn’t apply).
GrunchWeefer@reddit
How does heist not fit the pattern? There's an e, there's an i, they're all backwards. Ain't no C in attendance. Vowel sounds are not going "eyyyy".
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Because it only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”) So words like “heist” and “weird” don’t come into play at all because the e/i are pronounced separately. (Even if they’re just diphthongs, not fully separate syllables, they’re still separate sounds.)
People keep trying to force the rule onto words that it doesn’t apply to. It has a relatively narrow scope.
GrunchWeefer@reddit
You and I are pronouncing those words very differently.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Are you saying “heist” with the same vowel as “white” or “hike” or “I”? That’s a diphthong (aka 2 vowel sounds pronounced in one syllable).
As for “weird,” it’s harder for people to identify because of how the rhotic R works. Essentially, if the e/i in weird was one vowel, then weird and word would be homophones. IRD (like in bird) and ERD (like in herd) clearly make the syllabic R sound on their own, and that sound is present in weird. But there’s another vowel before the IRD in weird. Hence, the vowels are pronounced separately because the “ir” in weird is the digraph (that makes the syllabic R) and the “e” comes before it.
da_chicken@reddit
None of the words I posted follow any of the rules in the rhyme.
Leisure, seizure, and protein have a long E sound like see and week. Heist has a long I sound like bike or cry. None of them use have the letter C, and all of them are EI. There are more, too: Weird and foreign.
There are many words that work, but there are a lot that do not. For what is easily the most well known spelling mnemonic, it's really terrible at teaching you to spell.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
I literally said that three of your words were actual, true exceptions (although “leisure” is arguable based on its pronunciation). These are the 3 words.
Because it only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”) So words like “heist” and “weird” don’t come into play at all because the e/i are pronounced separately. (Even if they’re just diphthongs, not fully separate syllables, they’re still separate sounds.)
Weird is like heist. I would argue that foreign falls under the “says A” category since it’s “eigh” and definitely did say A in the past.
The problem is that people keep trying to force the rule onto words that it doesn’t apply to. It has a relatively narrow scope, but there is a clear pattern with relatively few exceptions.
GrunchWeefer@reddit
That's weird.
PickleMundane6514@reddit
Or when your weird foreign neighbor Keith receives eight counterfeit beige sleighs from feisty caffeinated weightlifters
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Would you like me to explain why the only exception in your list is actually “caffeinated”?
PickleMundane6514@reddit
Receive and Keith are also different vowels sounds.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
I’m not sure what you mean.
The “rule” only supposed to help you figure out how to spell ei/ie words when the ei/ie is a digraph representing one sound (most commonly “E,” but occasionally “A,” hence the second line of the rhyme). So for example, words where the vowels are pronounced separately (like science) don’t need the rule because you just say both vowels; the spelling should be clear.
So let’s look at the other words in light of this info: - foreign - I would argue this falls under the “says A” category since it’s “eigh” and definitely did say A in the past. - neighbor - says A - eight - says A - counterfeit - This might be an actual “exception” although since it doesn’t say E or A, I don’t think the rule was meant to apply. - beige - says A - sleighs - says A - feisty - Because it’s a diphthong, the vowels are arguably pronounced separately. (Also, doesn’t say E or A.) - caffeinated - This is an exception, mostly because it’s a relatively recent loanword. - weightlifters - says A
SevenSixOne@reddit
I have struggled with I before E... my whole life because the ei in my own name breaks all of these "rules"
Lackadaisicly@reddit
And the weird word that doesn’t follow those rules: weird.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
The “rule” doesn’t apply to weird.
Lackadaisicly@reddit
I before e, except after C.
Weird. Where is the C?
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
It’s helpful to have the fuller rhyme (that the commenter above posted), but also to remember that it only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”) So words like “science” and “weird” don’t come into play at all because the e/i are pronounced separately.
People keep trying to force the rule onto words that it doesn’t apply to. It has a relatively narrow scope.
rockninja2@reddit
Caffeine, efficient, deity, etc
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Of your examples, only “caffeine” is an exception.
The pattern (what people call the “rule”) only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”) So words like “science” and “weird” and “deity” don’t come into play at all because the e/i are pronounced separately.
For “efficient,” the “ci” is a digraph that makes the sound SH, so again ei/ie aren’t functioning as a phonetic unit (so the “rule” doesn’t apply).
People keep trying to force the rule onto words that it doesn’t apply to. It has a relatively narrow scope.
Lackadaisicly@reddit
STOP!!!
Keep weird weird!
Don’t make it less weird.
lol
mando_ad@reddit
Weird still doesn't fit. Nor does any variation on the word "theist".
Capital-Cheesecake67@reddit
or their and weird. . .
priorhazard@reddit
Also also, “weird” doesn’t follow that rule.
AlienMichael@reddit
As long as you pronounce 'weird'... strangely.
xoasim@reddit
And on Weekends and holidays and all throughout May
SilverStryfe@reddit
“And on weekends and holidays and all throughout May. And you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say.”
It’s one of a hard rule.
Jeff_Hinkle@reddit
Someone went to private school.
Comprehensive-Menu44@reddit
Society
w3woody@reddit
... But seizure and seize do what they please.
olenna17@reddit
and words that are weird, like weird.
TricellCEO@reddit
It also has the phrase "for the long E sound" as part of its mnemonic. Something that almost everyone seems to forget.
Araxanna@reddit
Weird.
Manda_lorian39@reddit
I’m almost certain that I learned this rule near Christmas, because I was an adult before I realized most people use neighbor and weigh as the examples. I was taught “as in reindeer and sleigh“
iceph03nix@reddit
And on weekends and holidays, and all throughout May, and you'll always be wrong no matter what you say.
hoosier268@reddit
And on weekends and holidays and all throughout May. You'll always be wrong no matter what you say
FlyByPC@reddit
"Weird" remains weird, though.
Suspicious_Mud_5855@reddit
And on weekends and holidays, and all throughout May, and you'll always be wrong no matter what you say!
Gyvon@reddit
And weekends and holidays and all throughout May.
Owl_plantain@reddit
And why is EI pronounced like long A? If you want it to sound like A, just put an A in there!
chimneylight@reddit
Huh. Thats weird!
Jelopuddinpop@reddit
Hahahaha I see what you did there
floofienewfie@reddit
Weird, pronounced “wired” if you follow the rule about sounding the second letter in the “ie” or “ei” combination. I dropped a microbiology class the first day because the professor pronounced “protein” as “pro-tyne” and I just couldn’t deal with it.
thatrandomuser1@reddit
Protyne is crazy, I would have dropped that class too haha
topsicle11@reddit
(Pronounced “wAYrd”)
No-Willingness-170@reddit
With multiple exceptions.
sunixic@reddit
What if it’s ‘jim nabors is way cool’?
hobokobo1028@reddit
You gotta finish the phrase…”and on weekends and holidays and all throughout May, and you’ll always be wrong NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY!” - Brian Reagan
luvchicago@reddit
That’s WEIRD
teslaactual@reddit
And youll always be wrong no matter what you say
mammakatt13@reddit
I before E, except when you run a feisty heist on your weird beige foreign neighbor.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Would you like me to explain why there are no exceptions in your list?
mammakatt13@reddit
Are you asking me if I need you to explain a joke? Because it’s a joke, not a thesis on the English language.
EpicAura99@reddit
It’s not even a rule. There are (apparently) more exceptions than adherents, just the adherents are more used.
Don_Q_Jote@reddit
This, exactly, is infuriating about the English (US) language. It's a rule that every rule has exceptions that make no sense whatsoever.
plshelpcomputerissad@reddit
Is British English less prone to breaking its own rules? I doubt it, usually their spelling differences are just an extra vowel here and there like ‘neighbour’
Don_Q_Jote@reddit
I made no comment about British English
plshelpcomputerissad@reddit
Oh you specified US English so I’m just confused why that’s worse or whatever than other forms of English. AFAIK they should be roughly the same in terms of being inconsistent.
NitescoGaming@reddit
I imagine it's because English is really just four languages in a trenchcoat, luring other languages into a back alley and mugging them for their words.
Pinkfish_411@reddit
Most of the spelling "rules" really just plain aren't rules, they're teaching devices for younger students learning to spell common words.
English "rules" only really start to make sense when you study the language historically rather than as a closed logical system.
the_skies_falling@reddit
And then you find out a word is spelled that way because the person who wanted it spelled that way was more popular.
Gravbar@reddit
there are not more exceptions. there are only few exceptions because the rule applies to a limited set of circumstances
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Yes, this! People apply the rule much too broadly and then think they’ve discovered a bunch of exceptions. “Caffeine” is one of the only exceptions I can think of.
jayakay20@reddit
It's not a pneumonic though is it
TricellCEO@reddit
There are few exceptions when people remember the full phrase:
"I before E, except after C, for the long E sound."
Only word that I can think of that violates this rule (that is to say it doesn't make a long-E sound despite having the I in front of the E) is diet.
Needless-To-Say@reddit
Id like to believe this is true but I suspect the data comes from a hard search comparison rather than a discriminating one that makes exceptions for sounding like A as in neighbour or weigh
Sissy__Fist@reddit
Not an "English language rule." Classic example of the rhyming fallacy (the "rhyme-as-reason effect") that sometimes gets taught as if it has some kind of weight, but this isn't an actual principle of English grammar and never has been.
AlgaeFew8512@reddit
Fun fact, more ie/ei words break that rule than follow it. It really shouldn't be taught anymore
TangoCharliePDX@reddit
I before e, except after c,
or when sounded like AY as in neighbor or weigh
Or when it sounded like EYE as in Einstein or Heidi
Or one of the other long list of exceptions: Neither, weird, foreign, leisure, seize, forfeit, height, protein, caffeine, forfeiture, codeine, and heifer.
Sans_Seriphim@reddit
It is not a useful rule and it is a good part of the reason I have no respect for English teachers. Don't teach a "rule" that works barely 50% of the time.
-dag-@reddit
The Awful German Language
TSells31@reddit
It’s not even correct. It’s a stupid “rule” that only works for a certain family of words like receive, deceive, conceive, etc.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Yes, exactly. If you only applied the “rule” to the words it was meant to help with, you’d find it more useful. Applying too broadly is what leads to problems.
TSells31@reddit
How are you supposed to apply a rule only to certain words and remember which words those are? Makes it useless. At that point you’re just remembering how to spell the words, not due to some stupid rule.
Science, sufficient, proficient, etc break the rule in one direction. Weird, height, foreign, etc break the rule in the other direction.
It is a useless little saying imo lol.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Well, the rhyme only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”) So words like “science” and “weird” don’t come into play at all because the e/i are pronounced separately.
People keep trying to force the rule onto words that it doesn’t apply to. It has a relatively narrow scope, but there is a clear pattern with few exceptions.
TSells31@reddit
The e/I in weird are definitely pronounced as one sound. If they were pronounced separately, it would be a two syllable word, as it would be two different vowel sounds, like in science.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Well, there are these things called diphthongs in which 2 vowel sounds are pronounced in one syllable.
If the e/i in weird was one vowel, then weird and word would be homophones. IRD (like in bird) and ERD (like in herd) clearly make the syllabic R sound on their own, and that sound is present in weird. But there’s another vowel before the IRD in weird. Hence, the vowels are pronounced separately.
So essentially, the “ir” in weird is the digraph (that makes the syllabic R) and the “e” comes before it.
TSells31@reddit
I guess that all makes sense.
Living_Murphys_Law@reddit
According to Merriam-Webster:
I before e, except after c
Or when sounded as 'a' as in 'neighbor' and 'weight'
Unless the 'c' is part of a 'sh' sound as in 'glacier'
Or it appears in comparatives and superlatives like 'fancier'
And also except when the vowels are sounded as 'e' as in 'seize'
Or 'i' as in 'height'
Or also in '-ing' inflections ending in '-e' as in 'cueing'
Or in compound words as in 'albeit'
Or occasionally in technical words with strong etymological links to their parent languages as in 'cuneiform'
Or in other numerous and random exceptions such as 'science', 'forfeit', and 'weird'.
And that doesn't even rhyme.
Maronita2025@reddit
Why not just say "i" before "e" except after "c" or whenever we say so? lol.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
This list could be easily simplified by just saying “and when I and E are pronounced separately.” The “rule” only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”)
If they did that, all of these “exceptions” from M-W would be eliminated. - Unless the 'c' is part of a 'sh' sound as in 'glacier' - Or it appears in comparatives and superlatives like 'fancier' - Or also in '-ing' inflections ending in '-e' as in 'cueing' - Or in compound words as in 'albeit' - Or occasionally in technical words with strong etymological links to their parent languages as in 'cuneiform' - Or in other numerous and random exceptions such as 'science' and 'weird'
People keep trying to apply the rule too broadly. For most of the “exceptions,” it shouldn’t have been applied to begin with.
birdperson2006@reddit
"I before E except after C, or when sounded as A as in neighbor or weigh, Unless the C is part of a SH sound as in Glacier, or appear in comparatives and superlatives as in fancier, and also except when the vowels are sounded as E as in seize or I as in height, and also in ing inflections ending in E as in queueing, and also in compound words as in albeit, and occasionally in technical words with strong etymological roots to their parent language as in cuneiform, and in other numerous and random exceptions such as science and forfeit and weird."
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
This list could be easily simplified by just saying “and when I and E are pronounced separately.” The “rule” only applies when ei/ie are digraphs pronounced as one sound. (And really it should only be words that the ei/ie are pronounced “ee” or “ay.”)
If you did that, all of these “exceptions” would be eliminated:
People keep trying to apply the rule too broadly. For most of the “exceptions,” it shouldn’t have been applied to begin with.
AtlasThe1st@reddit
I before E, except after C*
*There are many exceptions, weird huh?
Opposite-Act-7413@reddit
It’s weird because our language breaks this rule on so many occasions that it almost seems like a farce to even call it a rule.
BotherBoring@reddit
Except when you get into a feisty heist with your weird beige foreign neighbor.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Would you like me to explain why there are no exceptions in your list?
DharmaCub@reddit
I seized the opportunity to prove this rule isn't even correct when you add the "except in neighbor and weigh" rule.
crafty_j4@reddit
Not sure if this was intentional, but I found it funny.
CadenVanV@reddit
It’s pronounced like C, close enough
DharmaCub@reddit
What about sieve? Why's that different? Lol
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Because the “ie” isn’t pronounced “ee” or “ay,” which is what the pattern is for.
DharmaCub@reddit
Yeah that was the point lol
Curmudgy@reddit
I think it’s correct but incomplete. Are there any English words that have an “ie” sequence that’s sounded like “A”? /s
DharmaCub@reddit
No, but there is sieve. Lol
dachjaw@reddit
“And except for ’weird’, which is weird.”
splatgoestheblobfish@reddit
I before E, except after C, or when sounded as A, as in Neighbor and Weigh, or when your foreign neighbor Keith received eight counterfeit beige sleighs from feisty caffeinated weightlifters. Weird.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
Would you like me to explain why the only exception in your list is actually “caffeinated”?
Looptydude@reddit
My weird neighbor found a dead reindeer in their yard. I asked about its height and weight, but they couldn't tell me either as it was a foreign species that had to be forfeited to the local science society so it could be determined if the feisty beast could be used as a sufficient source of protein.
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
splatgoestheblobfish@reddit
I like that one even better!
BubbhaJebus@reddit
Seize him!!
Daddysheremyluv@reddit
It's always Keith. He is an Asshat
abfgern_@reddit
Almost everyone replying to this deserves a Whoosh
02K30C1@reddit
A weird whoosh.
BanalCausality@reddit
I’m pretty sure it’s a legacy rule from German, where the second letter determines the sound, ei words make an “i” sound, and ie words make a “e” sound.
SchoolForSedition@reddit
An ancient rule.
leo_the_lion6@reddit
Wierd for sho
cryptoengineer@reddit
It isn't even true. The number of exceptions is huge.
campfire_shadows@reddit
I like how the word weird breaks that rule. 🤣🤣
JenniferJuniper6@reddit
That rule only applies when the i and the e together are making a long E sound — like fiend. It was never supposed to be applied to any other circumstance. You all are taking it way out of context, which makes it completely meaningless.
QuoteGiver@reddit
It’s not a rule. Just stop repeating it.
Gravbar@reddit
it's a rule for us to avoid mixing up the words that have the ee sound and are spelled ei or ie. It works most of the time but obviously there's some exceptions. at the time it's taught kids are usually making mistakes like spelling ceiling as cieling and field as feild. the rule only applies to that narrow set of circumstances
jonesnori@reddit
That's not a rule. It's a mnemonic, and not a perfect one, even in its complete form.
vemberic@reddit
When to use IE vs. EI got even more confusing when I took German in high school, as a lot of the usage is backwards compared to English. I'm generally a great speller, but I mess up EI and IE all the time now.
FreedomBread@reddit
Foreign, seize, so many exceptions to this. It's weird this has caught on for so long when it's not a catch all and confuses things at times.
MWSin@reddit
It really should be: "I before E if it is a word of French origin that was pronounced with a long E before the meet-meat merger that took place in the 17th century."
SordoCrabs@reddit
Native speaker here, and while I have an above average grasp of spelling, I honestly didn't learn this rule until middle school. At that point, I didn't find need for it, and that was before considering the litany of exceptions that made it as useful as a screen door on a submarine.
lisalef@reddit
Oh snap! That’s exactly what I was going to say!!
IsabellaGalavant@reddit
The thing is, the exception is more common than the rule in the more frequently used words.
lfxlPassionz@reddit
It's not really a rule. It's just an observed pattern that doesn't really apply to a lot of words
Realistic-Regret-171@reddit
I see what you did there!!
eyetracker@reddit
Don't be hweird, Brian.
mynameisevan@reddit
People take this too seriously. This was never a hard rule, it’s just a little rhyme to help you remember how to spell “receiver”.
jesusmansuperpowers@reddit
My name is Keith
79-Hunter@reddit
Inconceivable, even!
MuscaMurum@reddit
The time it's actually useful is when remembering what to do after 'C'. I coined the rhyme:
I after E after C, usually
If used on a diphthong,
you're doing it wrong
That covers probably 95% of the "after C" cases. Maybe more.
Amadan_Na-Briona@reddit
There are more exceptions to that rule than words which follow it.
SlothFoc@reddit
"I before E, except almost all the fucking time."
bkinstle@reddit
Came to say this
OldSlug@reddit
Putting sentence punctuation inside quotes, when it isn’t part of the quote.
be_kind_12-2@reddit
as an aspiring writer, may I just say that I HATE QUOTE AND DIALOGUE PUNCTUATION
MattieShoes@reddit
This isn't really settled -- Americans tend to put the punctuation inside the quotes unless it changes the meaning, and Brits put punctuation outside the quotes unless it's part of the quote.
I think the Brits have it right on this one.
OldSlug@reddit
Since this is r/AskAnAmerican I figured they were interested in American English rules.
MattieShoes@reddit
Haha good point, fair enough.
OldSlug@reddit
I do agree that the British rules make more sense.
rjainsa@reddit
"I before e, except when your foreign neighbor Keith receives eight counterfeit beige sleighs from feisty caffeinated weightlifters." Seen on a coffee mug.
largos7289@reddit
I before E rule it doesn't even follow itself. Otherwise it would be thier not their.
HavBoWilTrvl@reddit
The rule that you're not supposed to end a sentence with a preposition. It's archaic and makes sense for Latin but English is not Latin and the rule is completely unnecessary.
The rule against split infinitives also makes no sense for English for the same reasons.
chaamdouthere@reddit
The “i” has to come first in words like “tick-tock” “flip-flop” and “fiddle-faddle.” It can never be “tock-tick.”
EpicAura99@reddit
I’ve gotten a hold of it now, but I’ll never fault anyone for mixing up its and it’s. No idea why people decided this is the one word where the possessive and contraction cannot overlap.
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
It actually fits the pattern of other possessive pronouns: hers, his, yours, theirs. "Its" fits, but I would agree that more broadly, it would make more sense to be "her's," "their's" etc.
Gravbar@reddit
"its" serves both grammatical roles like his does.
her, his, their, your, my
and also
hers, his, theirs, yours, mine
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
Possessive adjective vs possessive pronoun, yup. I never thought about that before, but you're right, it does. It's a weird language.
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
Subject/object possessive pronouns, yes! I never really thought of that, but it certainly does. Even more fun is the way "her" overlaps on regular object pronouns: me, you, him/her/it, us, you (all), them.
We have some really funky stuff going on in our language, for sure.
nothingbuthobbies@reddit
It really doesn't fit the pattern you've described at all. Hers, yours, theirs, mine, etc. are possessive pronouns, and we don't use "its" that way at all. "Its" is a possessive adjective, along with her, your, their, my, and so on. "His" happens to be the same whether it's used as a possessive pronoun or a possessive adjective, but it's unique in that regard.
00zau@reddit
I was typing the same thing when I saw your comment. The problem is possessive pronouns as a whole not following the same rule possessive nouns do.
TheyMakeMeWearPants@reddit
If we were going to be consistent about possessives, it should be her's our's it's your's
Not sure what you'd do with his and mine.
Zeawea@reddit
He's and me's.
jephph_@reddit
Huh? Those four are consistent
its
hers
ours
yours
It’s is something different (it is)
MooseFlyer@reddit
What are the cases where possessives and contractions can overlap? I can’t think of any.
EpicAura99@reddit
Basically any noun. “Bob’s going to the store” where it’s a contraction, “Bob’s car is over there” where it’s possessive.
MooseFlyer@reddit
Right, yeah I definitely just blanked haha.
23haveblue@reddit
The Constitution actually has that typo on Article 1, Section 10
Clause 2
No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws...
Missing4Bolts@reddit
The rule about where to use possessive apostrophes was codified after the Constitution was written, so that's not an error, just archaic. https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/history-and-use-of-the-apostrophe
23haveblue@reddit
Wow! TIL! I'm definitely not a historian of the English language lol
Aggressive-Emu5358@reddit
How any part of the English speaking population can get through daily life without saying ain’t or y’all.
sjedinjenoStanje@reddit
Well, some of the past tenses. For example, "lay" being the past tense of "lie" (as in to lie down).
"Yesterday, I was tired and lay for a bit."
That just sounds wrong, and I know virtually nobody who says it the "correct" way.
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
And then to make it extra complicated, "lay" is the present tense for the transitive form of the verb, and "laid" is the simple past tense. And because it is usually followed by "down," it sounds very much like "lay down" when you say "laid down."
I actually have it all straight in my head, but I absolutely don't fault those that haven't quite figured it out.
Ok_Orchid_4158@reddit
As a New Zealander, it really astonishes me when I hear Americans mixing up “lie” and “lay”. I honestly don’t think I’ve ever heard a fellow New Zealander say “I’m going to lay down”. It just sounds unfinished. Like, you’re going to lay down what? Same with “I fell.” You fell what? You fell pine trees? We would never just say “I fell” and call it a complete sentence. It’s funny how there’s more dialectal differences than people tend to admit.
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
Well, since "fell" is the past tense of "fall," "I fell" actually is a complete sentence. Adding "down" is fine if you want to make it clear that you didn't fall sideways against something, but it's not actually necessary. Context will nearly always make it clear that you're not talking about making other things fall by felling trees, buildings, or enemies. Just as you don't have to add anything to "I sat," "I drowned," or "I left."
The one that makes me scratch my head here in the American South is when I hear people say "set down" when they're telling you to sit down. At that point I'm admittedly a little judgy.
jonesnori@reddit
Yeah. I do, but it's a lost cause. The words have merged.
Suni13@reddit
Most of them.
RyouIshtar@reddit
Yacht <------ wtf is this
No-Stop-3362@reddit
Nothing makes sense about English language rules. I am amazed that non-native speakers can make any kind of sense of it.
HandsOnDaddy@reddit
English is all made up and the points don't matter, get enough people to use something incorrectly and it literally becomes correct.
CheezitCheeve@reddit
Why we don’t go the route of Spanish and make a pan-country language body to standardize and fix English’s inconsistencies.
terryjuicelawson@reddit
Problem is that English has so many dialects and inconsistencies there, you'd end up with a different spelling depending on region.
drsoftware@reddit
Because the citizens of the USA aren't fond of the Federal Government?
Do metric first.
Soundtracklover72@reddit
LOL. Truth.
At least hospitals have embraced metric.
Only thing metric I hate is trying to figure out how much it costs to fill up my car. I was in Canada and the gas signs confused me. It wasn’t as simple as “a liter = $CAD” and I need this many liters for my car.
drsoftware@reddit
Healthcare, military, bicycles...
In Canada we still use Fahrenheit for oven temperatures and cups, tablespoons, etc for measuring ingredients in cooking and baking.
Soundtracklover72@reddit
Fahrenheit is a better indicator of temperature in my humble opinion. I read in post somewhere that F is like “30º is 30% of hot, because 100º is hot and uncomfortable.” It makes sense.
drsoftware@reddit
This is just because you are used to Fahrenheit. I've lived in Canada for more than 30 years, and grew up in the USA. Celsius makes sense for room/weather/body temperatures. Fahrenheit no longer makes any sense.
I do remember that 100º is HOT WEATHER, but 75º? I think it's cool, but will I need a jacket?
unchained-wonderland@reddit
we technically already did metric. modern imperial measures are defined in relation to SI units, such as the US gallon being 3.785411784 L because it's defined as 231 cubic inches, with an inch being defined as 25.4 mm
yes this is worse. yes this is stupid. but it's technically metric, which is the best kind of metric
drsoftware@reddit
The USA uses US Customary Units. The USA hasn't officially used imperial units since 1832. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units
But yes, US Customary Units are now defined using SI units.
CheezitCheeve@reddit
We tried to do metric, but we also quickly found out people aren’t fond of change. It’s less of a federal government thing and more a “Well, I’ve always done it like this so I’m going to keep doing it like this!” attitude that prevents us from converting to metric or listening to a national body dictating English.
Also, there is a Spanish academic body in America that the Spanish speakers seem to adhere to fine. It isn’t impossible.
drsoftware@reddit
The cost of replacing all the highway signs is another reason used.
ccroy2001@reddit
Not a rule, but I am 62 and still struggle with effect and affect lol.
terryjuicelawson@reddit
I am OK but feel like I pronounce them subtly differently.
vase-of-willows@reddit
Why “colonel” is pronounced “kernel”
wolferiver@reddit
Or why the Brits say "leftenant" and Americans say "lootenant". And don't even get me started on "zee" vs "zed".
terryjuicelawson@reddit
Comes from the very earliest armies and Norman French I believe, so in a way it is odd that being so ingrained it changed in American English. The odd logic of "colonel" is similar but remains in the US Army like "kernel".
LostBetsRed@reddit
The subjunctive mood. "I wish I were rich" rather than "I wish I was rich." I mean, WTF is up with that?
PeculiarBoat@reddit
that apparently everyone here must be able to speak it or risk getting deported bc of racial and ethnic profiling
_Bon_Vivant_@reddit
I before E
redpenner@reddit
"Comma inside the quotation marks," instead of after.
MontanaPurpleMtns@reddit
Whether to put the punctuation indicating the end of a sentence inside the quotation marks or not. Rule says to do that.
Makes sense with: “Would you like milk or sugar with your tea?” asked Mary. Sue replied, “Neither, thank you.”
It doesn’t make logical sense to me with examples like this: Mom said I should “just keep the peace.”
This just makes more sense to me:
Mom says I should “just keep the peace”.
I remember asking teachers about this way back when, and it was never explained why.
1551MadLad@reddit
The way Arkansas is spelled versus how you actually say it, Kansas is said as it is, why is Arkansas different? Thats always annoyed me
Wyklar2@reddit
Not ending a sentence with a preposition. That one is silly.
marvsup@reddit
Yeah I think people are starting to move away from that. The reasoning is really dumb: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1avamm/til_that_the_rule_that_you_cant_end_a_sentence_w/
Drinking_Frog@reddit
That's another vestige from when some wanted English to conform to certain Latin rules or conventions.
marvsup@reddit
It's specifically bc someone was jealous of Shakespeare and wanted to make him look bad
Soundtracklover72@reddit
And when you try to do it, it either sounds super awkward OR hoity-toity.
TheBimpo@reddit
As a native speaker, I don't think about the rules of the language at all.
I haven't thought about grammar since my last college course around 2 decades ago. I've forgotten most of the definitions of things. Predicate? Yeah, no idea.
It's an informal language becoming increasingly less formal. I'd wager most of us aren't super concerned about rules, grammar, etc because most of us aren't in careers in which they matter.
angel_of_satan@reddit
this. some other languages have really strict rules, but english is spoken ALL OVER THE WORLD, and it is the main language spoken in three completely different countries on completely different continents. english has basic foundational rules, but even those can change and adapt as people use the language over time. english is INCREDIBLY flexible and "vibey". words that aren't words become words, some of the obvious are y'all and ain't but those follow the basic rules of contraction, then there words like "bruh". thats not a word. bro is a shorthand of brother, but bruh came from bro organically, and now we recognize "bruh" as a word. it is not really a word, or st least, it wasn't. it was added to the dictionary in 2016, and now, it IS a real word with a real definition. the only ACTUAL foundational rules of english, are 1) the rules are based on how people talk, not the other way around, and 2) if the people around you can understand you, its correct
DuplicateJester@reddit
I have a degree in English and I don't know all of the rules, definitions, things. It's all vibes. I look at a piece and I'm just like "Well, that's not right."
carlitospig@reddit
‘It’s all vibes.’
SO MUCH. Half my English knowledge is mimicry. And yet some things still make me grab my pitchfork. I’m a data analyst and I can’t tell you why dah-ta is like nails on a chalkboard vs day-ta, even if it’s a database. Or individual data.
Exciting_Bee7020@reddit
100% to the all vibes.
I'm a native English speaker raising native English speakers in an Arabic speaking country. They learn English at school and from about grade 8 up I'm useless when they need help with their English grammar because they use rules the 1) I've never heard before, and 2) I'm not convinced even exist except in textbooks in non-English speaking countries.
The lesson they took on how you know whether to use "I will" vs. "I'm going to" pretty much did me in.
laissez_heir@reddit
You mean individual datum?
carlitospig@reddit
I almost included that but didn’t want to confuse non data nerds. 😂
ilikethepole@reddit
You mean grammar/language nerds. I doubt many data analysts (number driver people) actually know data is Latin and the plural form of datum.
Mountain_Economist_8@reddit
You mean AN individual datum?
mechanicalcontrols@reddit
I mean, I would expect your degree in English was largely taught by descriptivists rather than prescriptivists, so yeah, broadly speaking, no rules just vibes.
AllanBz@reddit
Linguists can be descriptivists, but English teachers are preparing you for writing in college, business, and possibly postgrad, in all of which you must write to specific standards. Otherwise the various disciplines would not need style guides, the Chicago, AP, APA, MLA, etc.
MattieShoes@reddit
I think there's a middle ground... Learning rules is important because breaking the rules draws attention. If you break the rules randomly, it's drawing attention randomly and results in less effective communication. If you generally follow the rules, breaking them is a tool you can employ. So knowing the rules is important even if you aren't a prescriptivist.
Well, you might want to slavishly follow them in some academic contexts, but generally not.
And it goes beyond simple grammar... Like in three seasons of Ted Lasso, I think he only swore once. That serves to emphasize the significance. If he'd been swearing like a sailor the whole time, then it'd have just been noise.
AllanBz@reddit
Yes, but breaking a rule or rules and getting away with it requires a keen understanding of your intended audience, something one acquires when submerging oneself in a chosen genre, subgenre, or subculture, a practice one finds oneself doing in… an English class, one would presume, though I haven’t been in decades. Rhetoric as well puts an emphasis on audience.
In the seventies and eighties, Weathers & Winchester promulgated something that started becoming called “Grammar B” (or did they call it that at the outset? I’d have to check) that was an “alternate style” that could be used in such contexts as poetry and postmodernist prose.
mechanicalcontrols@reddit
I would argue those style guides are just that "styles" and not actual nuts and bolts grammar of the language itself.
AllanBz@reddit
No disagreement, I was just commenting on the prescriptivist part. Were you to have students write to a specification, you cannot rightly be said to be teaching in a totally descriptivist manner.
mechanicalcontrols@reddit
Fair enough. Anyway have a good one
AllanBz@reddit
You as well!
Happy_Confection90@reddit
I have a degree in English too. And "it's all vibes" is why there was such a high rate of people needing to retake Grammar because they didn't get the minimum C+ required for English education majors. You can get high marks for grammar in your writing all through school because you absorbed the rules through reading, but still not be able to explain why you're correct.
Open_Confidence_9349@reddit
Exactly. If I write a sentence and can’t figure out why it’s wrong, I just re-write the sentence a completely different way.
porcelaincatstatue@reddit
I have a BA in English and same. The main focus was using proper MLA or APA styles when writing. Outside of essays, though, the most important thing is that you can communicate effectively and be understood in whatever way works. Everything else is prescriptivist nonsense.
boldjoy0050@reddit
That’s why English as a Second Language is so different than English degrees. English focuses primarily on literature whereas ESL is all about learning the rules and how to teach the language effectively.
brzantium@reddit
Yup. Nailed the verbal section of the GMAT just on vibes. The quantitative section was another story.
DryWerewolf7579@reddit
I agree, my last grammar lesson was in elementary school and a little bit in high school so I just talk lol I never think about it either. Though sometimes when learning new languages I think about how people learning English must feel
chillarry@reddit
English is an ever evolving language.
Rules only exist to be broken and forgotten.
How many times did we hear never end a sentence with a with a preposition? But it’s something we live “with”. It doesn’t bother anyone any longer. Whom has mostly been dropped. By “who”? I don’t know. And don’t split an infinitive, and yet we “boldly” move forward, speaking and writing English in a way that sounds correct.
The only rule in English I accept is, does it sound right when it is spoken or read. Does the listener or reader understand what is being communicated?
As English becomes more and more of the universal language it will continue to evolve. New words are added constantly.
Aeirth_Belmont@reddit
Honestly, I don't trust people's ability to read. I've worked in customer service for far too long. I also don't trust people's reading comprehension.
Spirited_Ingenuity89@reddit
If a language is alive, it’s changing. Only dead language cease to evolve.
Ouisch@reddit
When I was in junior high school one of my English teacher's pet peeves was the use of "snuck". She had us all look it up in the dictionary one day to emphasize her point that "the past tense of 'sneak' is 'sneaked'!!" I guess I must have mentioned this to my husband more than once over the years while watching TV because now anytime a character says "snuck" he rolls his eyes and mumbles "Wait for it...." and I will say "sneaked" under my breath.
chillarry@reddit
Sneak/sneaked/snuck. Love this word’s evolution.
It’s an example of a new word that is taking the place of an old one. I guess you could say that “snuck”, snuck into the English lexicon. It’s very common in American English.
the_bearded_wonder@reddit
Not ending a sentence with a preposition wasn’t really an English rule in the first place anyway. It’s a Latin rule that people wanted to apply to English and English isn’t Latin based in the first place.
BreadPuddding@reddit
IIRC, this is also true of splitting infinitives. In Latin (and other Romance languages), infinitives are single words - it’s not that you aren’t supposed to split them, you can’t. There’s no reason English should follow that, except when necessary to avoid ambiguity.
00zau@reddit
Ditto for the "less vs. fewer" thing redditors will bring up every time you use one 'wrong'. It's not a real rule, it's just a preference.
TechnologyDragon6973@reddit
Right. It was grammarians who wanted English to be less barbaric and more like Latin who imposed those false rules.
laissez_heir@reddit
You just reminded me of this scene from the Beavis and Butthead movie
GossipBottom@reddit (OP)
I think all languages are ever evolving. Since the beginning of humanity.
Soundtracklover72@reddit
Well said.
Subject_Reception681@reddit
True story, I was the Editor-in-Chief for my college's newspaper, and I couldn't tell you what an adverb is.
I was home schooled, and my parents never had me take a single English class. But I read a lot, and so I could generally tell when a sentence sounded correct or incorrect. In spite of zero formal education, I was better at catching grammatical errors than anyone else we had on staff.
SevenSixOne@reddit
IME most native English speaking Americans get VERY little formal instructions on grammar/usage/etc beyond the basics, so most people who are Good With Grammar™ just have an intuition of what "sounds right" based on a lifetime of exposure and repetition ~~and vibes~~
name_changed_5_times@reddit
It’s just a verb +ly for the most part. It’s the use of a verb as a description (adjective). I went to public school but because I was dyslexic they put me in far more extensive writing classes to make sure I could keep up… however it became apparent to me that most of my peers after a while where actually behind the other dyslexics and myself cause they didn’t get the extra help lol.
unchained-wonderland@reddit
other way around. its an adjective +ly and describes a verb instead of a noun like adjectives do
if you (noun) are quick (adjective describing you) when you run (verb) then you run quickly (adverb describing the running)
name_changed_5_times@reddit
Damn and I thought I really had that one.
emnuff@reddit
Lol same here. Mom taught me to read and sent me on my merry way. 12ish years later, 800 on the reading portion of the SAT
AtlasThe1st@reddit
I cant tell you the number of important, official documents and signage Ive seen with horrible second grade level typos. Why are conjunctions and apostrophes so hard for people to get?
MattieShoes@reddit
Predicate is generally just "not the subject". I haven't had an English class in 30 years.
You use the information even if you can't define the terms. The rules matter, even if they're not at the level of conscious thought. We don't slavishly follow the rules, but breaking them is a tool -- it draws attention. For instance, I'm not going to say "increasingly less" is wrong or anything, but it's awkward and it draws attention. If you do it intentionally, great. If you do it constantly by accident, it just makes the whole thing less effective because you're being distracted by unimportant things.
Honestly, the way to make those subconscious rules conscious is to learn a foreign language. You automatically start picking up on stuff like "why does English put adjectives before the noun, but Spanish puts them after the noun?" You actually have to think about conjugating verbs. It draws attention to idioms that don't make sense when translated.
AllYallCanCarry@reddit
I feel attacked..
cryptoengineer@reddit
One of the things about English is that the grammar is pretty forgiving. You can mess up a lot, and still get your meaning across. In a language like French, grammer errors tend generate pure gibberish.
danjoski@reddit
Yes. I only really learned grammar when I took Latin in graduate school.
HellaTroi@reddit
The US English language is undergoing a rapid evolution due to our online usage. Accurate spelling goes right out the window when online.
UR instead of "your" or "you are" is an example of this trend. This is becoming more common even in a business environment.
One example is Microsoft Teams, where users post updates on different projects or goals. Many times users post very informally, using common online abbreviations or shortcuts.
greeneyes826@reddit
I took a grammar course during my masters program, and my professor literally made up grammar rules.
This was for an English degree.
I’m still baffled by it.
Missing4Bolts@reddit
That's perfectly reasonable. What I don't understand is what you are doing here in r/grammar.
TillPsychological351@reddit
The biggest advantage I've had learning English grammar is that knowing the concepts, it makes it easier to learn foreign languages where the grammar rules have more substantial impact sentence construction. For example, being able to identify a noun modifier is more important in a language with grammatical gender. Likewise, in German the choice of article depends on both the noun's gender and case.
Cratertooth_27@reddit
I remember predicates from our great linguist lil Wayne when he said “I got through that sentence like a subject and a predicate”
OkTechnologyb@reddit
This.
BareTheBear66@reddit
Lol absolutely this. Language at the end of the day is just to understand each other. If it gets the point across, the "rules" dont really matter. Especially when a lot of these rules to the language have exceptions to them that make the rule kinda meaningless.
Jayu-Rider@reddit
That we of English, not American.
Rex_Lee@reddit
Cough, rough and though
_HystErica_@reddit
Tomb, bomb, comb
laissez_heir@reddit
Guess which one Gough Street, San Francisco is pronounced after
Soundtracklover72@reddit
Now I’m curious. Which one?
laissez_heir@reddit
Cough. “Gawf.” I can’t remember where it comes from, it might be a name.
HorrorAlarming1163@reddit
I’ve heard a lot of people, particularly Brits I feel like, pronounce Van Gough that way. Maybe it is related to that
Rex_Lee@reddit
Guff?
Maria_Dragon@reddit
Also plough
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Bold of you to assume I know all the rules 😂 even as a kid I thought grammar was the absolute dumbest class I had to take because I already knew how to speak grammatically correct because most of our rules are just common sense for what sounds best, who cares about what type of word I’m using if I’m using it correctly.
This opinion has only gotten stronger as I’ve gotten older and learned more about American English, most of the “rules” I learned have an ungodly number of exceptions to the point the rule itself has become a joke like “I before E except after C” (now off to science class kids!) and the rest just sound better. Don’t ask me why we use “an” instead of “a” when the following words starts with a vowel, I just know “an apple” sounds better than “an apple”
Most_Time8900@reddit
Not saying "ain't"
KorvaMan85@reddit
As my 1st grade teacher used to say, “ain’t ain’t a word, so you ain’t gonna use it!”
MisterPaintedOrchid@reddit
What I heard in elementary in Texas was "Ain't ain't a word 'cause it ain't in the dictionary."
Of course, it was in the dictionary, but ...
RobertSaccamano@reddit
the "innit" of the American world
Blonde_Vampire_1984@reddit
Innit is a very convenient substitute for ain’t.
ghunt81@reddit
I'm from WV and "ain't" actually is a word here, everyone uses it
soliera__@reddit
It might be a regional thing, but “ain’t” doesn’t come naturally to me. I tend to use “isn’t” in its place. It’s the same thing with “y’all.” I tend to use “you guys,” “you all,” or just the word “you” as a plural.
ThePurityPixel@reddit
Used to be the proper contraction of "am not"!
Dogebastian@reddit
"amnt" is the way
PlayingDoomOnAGPS@reddit
That's an abbreviation for "amount."
jord839@reddit
The problem is that "ain't" fits all the rules of our other contractions, as long as you're using "I". "I ain't", "You aren't", "She isn't" all follow the same rule where the pronoun stays the same and the verb combines with not. In comparison "I'm not" is the only contraction where the pronoun and verb go together but it's not accepted to do it the other way, unlike "you're not" or "he's not".
The problem is that some people started using ain't as a catch-all for singular, and then grammar teachers came down hard on it in all contexts, so it's seen as improper. Real overcorrection.
GarconMeansBoyGeorge@reddit
How does it follow the rules? What other contractions introduce letters?
BreadPuddding@reddit
Can you see where "ain’t" follows from trying to say "amn’t" and dropping the actual lip closure for the "m"?
GarconMeansBoyGeorge@reddit
My point stands. It introduces an I. What other contraction does that?
jayakay20@reddit
But won't is a further contraction of would not or wouldn't. Whereas ain't is not a contraction of any verb
GarconMeansBoyGeorge@reddit
Won’t also works for will not
BreadPuddding@reddit
It does, if you assume the original was "amn’t", which is difficult as hell to say, and spelling now follows pronunciation because that shift happened before any sort of standardized spelling.
GarconMeansBoyGeorge@reddit
You can say “I’m not.”
BreadPuddding@reddit
You can also say "s/he’s not" or "we’re not", and people do, but that doesn’t make "s/he isn’t" or "we aren’t" incorrect.
jord839@reddit
Part of that is the informal nature of the linguistic evolution.
I am not -> I amn't (m and n together is hard to say, one gets elised) -> I an't (sounds too much like ant, shift to a pronunciation like "ape") -> I ain't (written by people not super well educated but looking to make it clear how you pronounce it).
In terms of purpose, it's still very much working the same way isn't and aren't function vs she's not and we're not as you can either combine the verb and pronoun or the verb and the negative, but because Ain't was considered to be informal despite following the latter rule, modern English I can only be abbreviated with the verb + pronoun rule instead of both like all other sentence constructions, and that is defying the original intention.
English vowel inconsistency is to blame for how a later linguistic evolution ended up adding a letter to try and make itself clear when being formalized, and then certain grammarians cracked down hard on all use of it.
jonesnori@reddit
Oh, like saying, "That ain't right"? It should be "isn't" there, not "am not". Okay, I can see that. I don't agree with it, but that makes more sense of the prohibition.
jord839@reddit
Pretty much. Stuff like that and saying "Ain't it grand?" are both using the contraction in the wrong place when it should be "isn't".
I mean, there's no "right" to language evolution on a long time scale, wouldn't be that weird for English to evolve into having a singular negative contraction and a plural negative contraction (ain't vs aren't), but for Grammar Teachers looking to standardize the language into "proper" English, "Ain't" was a word that wasn't following the rules that it should fit into and so got cracked down hard on.
rationalsarcasm@reddit
Got my girlfriend who grew up in Manhattan has finally gotten on the ain't train lmao
cans-of-swine@reddit
I ain't gonna do that.
TheDuckFarm@reddit
Ain’t was taboo for political reasons.
200 years ago it was common in England, especially for the aristocrats. The Merriam-Webster company wanted to distance American English from England so they made ain’t and other words taboo by omitting them from their dictionary.
No_Pepper_2512@reddit
The rule of order of adjectives
opinion, size, age, shape, color, origin, material, and purpose
C0rruptedAI@reddit
This "rule" is something most people follow without even realizing it and likely couldn't describe it if asked. If you get it wrong, you sound like a lunatic. I feel bad for non-natives using the order common to their native language.
TiFist@reddit
I'm just glad that US English is finally acquiring a 2nd person plural. Within a few generations the use of y'all is likely to be universal.
Will it make the jump outside of the US and finally give other English speakers the 2nd person plural they so desperately need? Time will tell.
Drinking_Frog@reddit
The funny thing about that is that "y'all" doesn't have to be plural.
jonesnori@reddit
Yes, it does. All of the singular uses I have seen quoted have been corporate plural, as when you go into a shop and say, "Y'all got coffee?" to the lone clerk. That's referring to the shop in the corporate sense, not to the clerk alone. Do you have other examples?
I know about "all y'all". That is used for a larger group in some areas.
Drinking_Frog@reddit
Well, look who's confidently incorrect.
You looked at quotes. I live here.
jonesnori@reddit
Okay. I may be wrong. What are some examples that are not "corporate" you? I lived in the South in childhood, but obviously not everywhere. Dialects vary. Where I lived, "y'all" was always plural.
wolferiver@reddit
I like "youse", which I first heard when I moved to Wisconsin. (Rhymes with "use".)
jonesnori@reddit
I've heard that in a few places. I hear it occasionally in New Jersey, and I swear I once heard it in countryside New South Wales. My hearing is not great, though, so I'm not the best source.
Beautiful-Report58@reddit
I hope not! That is just an awful “word”. It’s redundant and unnecessary. I hate this along with youse, youse guys and the like. However, y’all’s is just an abomination of the language.
guess214356789@reddit
When two vowels go awalking, the first one does the talking.
The only instance of two consecutive vowels can follow the rule, but not in this case.
Overall_Chemist1893@reddit
Never ending a sentence with a preposition. I find a lot of folks, myself among them, ignoring that rule in conversational speech. But in writing, I still find myself following it much of the time, mainly because that's how I was taught. But sometimes, it sounds awkward or artificial-- much easier to ignore the rule and speak conversationally.
bizwig@reddit
It’s all the fault of the French, and the great vowel shift. Had the printing press shown up after the vowel shift was basically complete spelling would more closely conform to pronunciation.
ur_moms_chode@reddit
It's not even a written rule but:
sounds right, while
Just sounds wrong
Aprils-Fool@reddit
It actually is a rule! We just all internalized it from hearing spoken language and never had to be explicitly taught the rule.
MattieShoes@reddit
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/grammar/british-grammar/adjectives-order
opinion, size, physical quality, shape, age, color, origin, material, type, purpose. It kind of blew my mind when I first heard it.
bookshelfie@reddit
Why it’s not phonetic.
Raineythereader@reddit
Irregular verbs.
dive -> dove/dived -> have dived/dove?
mow -> mowed -> have mowed/mown?
There are others, but those are some specific ones that I've needed to use and have tripped me up recently.
Evil-Cows@reddit
Not really a language rule, but a wording choice… “my alarm goes off at 7 AM” to say something goes off (most commonly an alarm) is to say something starts making a noise. This never made sense to me. Why did we choose this particular phrase? I remember being extremely confused by it as a kid.
WindyWindona@reddit
I know the historical reasons, but the way a lot of spelling doesn't line up to any pronunciation, especially for weird one off words. Thanks 'debt', and 'colonel' is an especially egregious offender.
lorgskyegon@reddit
English is three languages in a trench coat beating up other languages in an alley and rifling through their pockets for loose grammar.
drsoftware@reddit
Corps.
This has a lot to do with the Normans, thanks to William the Conqueror. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Norman_language
One joke has the ruling class complicating the English language by moving away from a spelling-phonetic rule, allowing commoners to read by moving their lips, to something that required much more education and thought.
Lamballama@reddit
Except even the Norman French they used was written phonetically for its time. Just both French and English have fossilized spelling due to earlier standardization and not updating it
rosanna-montanna@reddit
Cities in Massachusetts have entered the chat
ghunt81@reddit
Worcestershire!
Kittalia@reddit
I've lived in (but didn't grow up in) both England and New England. In England I got a good handle on all the unintuitive ways that British cities were pronounced. Then in MA and NH I got to play the horrible game of "British pronunciation, American pronunciation, or some ungodly third pronunciation" every time I saw a new city.
Soundtracklover72@reddit
:Snort: no kidding. If you’re not from there you’re almost guaranteed to pronounce a lot of them incorrectly. Even knowing some of the pronunciations, I’m like “whhhhhhyyyy???”
PAXICHEN@reddit
Or how Newark, NJ and Newark, DE are pronounced differently…
Soundtracklover72@reddit
Exactly!
skiing123@reddit
I recently watched a YouTube video pronouncing the names and the woman got it right but the man didn't and thought there was no way it was right. Everyone tells him he is wrong and even asks if we were sure lol
cryptoengineer@reddit
Happens other places too. The street before where the NYC numbered grid system starts is Houston Street.
Its not pronounced like the city in Texas, but as 'House-ton'. Named after a different dude named Houston.
MattieShoes@reddit
The Mackinac bridge snorts
Mountain_Economist_8@reddit
Are you referring to the ones based on Native American words?
rosanna-montanna@reddit
In some cases, yeah (e.g., Swampscott). But also a lot that end in -ster (such as Worcester, famously), plus others like Peabody, Quincy, Woburn, etc.
SordoCrabs@reddit
IIRC, debt's B was not originally part of the English word.
During the period when moldy-assed pedants were trying to make English more "Latiny", words from Latin that English had nativized had letters re-introduced from the OG word (debitum) that English had never used (the word came to us from French without a B). But this largely only impacted spelling.
Whiplash104@reddit
Totally. It originally came from French dette and they wanted to make it more latiny for no good reason. A good video on this https://youtu.be/NXVqZpHY5R8
SordoCrabs@reddit
Lol, I've definitely watched many of Mr. Watts' videos, though I have been watching his collabs with Jess these days.
Whiplash104@reddit
I recently discovered his videos. I always wonder about the history of silent letters (and language in general) then locked on more of his stuff. I have ti check out the collabs. Thanks.
SordoCrabs@reddit
It is a separate YouTube channel called Words Unraveled. His co-host is an American, so there is often some discussion of British vs US usage.
On_The_Blindside@reddit
is that the Robs Words video?
Minn3sota_Loon@reddit
I still get “colonel” mixed up in my head still to this day because of the ‘r’ sound!
theteapotofdoom@reddit
It's the subtle differences
Forsaken-Cake-8850@reddit
The worst offender in my opinion is rendezvous. I had to double check with a search engine to make sure I got that right. In case someone hasn't seen the word in writing, it's pronounced "rondayvoo."
WindyWindona@reddit
All words loaned from French without the spelling being changed are awful. Hor'devours is one I definitely didn't spell right here and I never spell correctly on the first try.
Traditional_Mango920@reddit
I hate when you smush two existing words together and the pronunciation magically changes thanks to the smush. The word caterpillar unreasonably angers me. There are plenty of other words that do the same thing when mashed together, but caterpillar just really pisses me off lol.
jonesnori@reddit
"Debt" got deliberately misspelled by some literary influencer a couple of centuries ago as a call-back to the original Latin source. We actually got the word from French, which had already dropped the B, and it was never part of the pronunciation. "Doubt" went through the same process.
Whiplash104@reddit
The b in debt to det (brought over form French dette) was added during the renaissance just to be fancy like many silent letters. It kind of pauses me off that they added silent letters an messed up the language intentionally.
This video was eye opening it the history of silent letters. https://youtu.be/NXVqZpHY5R8
dehydratedrain@reddit
There's a whole test (NART) dedicated to this. Words like aisle, egregious, placebo, etc.
samosamancer@reddit
Tough, though, through. Adding one letter changes the pronunciation.
Better-Trade-3114@reddit
Every animal before shit changes the meaning of shit.
rognabologna@reddit
?
They are mostly just amplifiers of how shit the shit is.
Dog shit, horse shit, bullshit all mean the same thing. Chicken shit means something different. I can’t think of any other examples, though.
Better-Trade-3114@reddit
Dogshit-poor quality Horseshit-its a lie Batshit-thats some crazy stuff Apeshit-thats destructive crazy Jackshit-means nothing Bullshit-its a lie Chickenshit-little or ineffective.
And not quite the same but calling something shit means it is of poor quality but calling it "the shit" makes it one of the best of a thing.
Far_Silver@reddit
Batshit.
MattieShoes@reddit
I'd say dog shit is different than bullshit and horse shit... horse shit and bullshit being concerned with lying and hypocrisy while dog shit is concerned with quality.
Apeshit and batshit are two more examples... Somewhat similar to each other, though batshit feels more permanent than apeshit.
Curmudgy@reddit
I don’t recall ever hearing or seeing “dog shit” used to mean “that’s a lie”. I think of it as just an intensifier on the meaning “crap”, as in “Windows ME was dog shit”.
But then again, I avoid vulgarities, so perhaps I’m wrong on the meaning and usage.
Secret-Equipment2307@reddit
Read (present), read (past). Lead (present), led (past). I’ve never mixed up read and read, but I used to always say lead for past tense on accident.
thekittennapper@reddit
Moose. Moose.
Goose. Geese.
House. Houses.
Mouse. Mice.
It’s because they’re all coming from different loan languages, but I resent it.
Bracatto@reddit
only moose is coming from a different loan language. the rest can be traced to Proto Germanic.
the reason for these odd plurals is those words got affected by umlaut.
in Proto Germanic, the word for mouse is "mus", and the plural is "musiz"
eventually through a process called assimilation, the U in the plural form became affected byt the I in the plural ending marker, making it sound more similar to I, however it kept the rounded lips of the U sound. this is written with a Y, modern english does not have this sound. but if you make a I (ee) sound with rounded lips youve got it. however the singular, mus, remained the same.
so then you have mus, mysiz.
then the IZ ending eroded. this is probably about where most english plurals began to standardize to the S or ES endings we know today. however in the case of mus and mysiz..you didnt have to because you could already tell the difference between mus and mys.
and then came the great vowel shift. where mus would eventually become mouse, and mys would become mice. the great vowel shift happened over hundreads of years and I dont know every stage in between mus/mys to /mouse/mice.
similar processes happened to the other words except moose because, moose entered English through a different language, well after all this happened. This is not unique to english and it occurs in other west germanic languages.
Cheeto-dust@reddit
The OSASCOMP rule for the order of adjectives before a noun: Opinion, Size, Age, Shape, Color, Origin, Material, Purpose.
I've been following this rule my whole life without realizing that it's a rule.
Plato198_9@reddit
Silent Letters
Litzz11@reddit
English as a Second Language teacher here. Feeling all of these comments!
I never know how to explain cough, through, though ....
SteadfastEnd@reddit
Why a word like "kneecap" needs the K. It could just be "neecap."
Crayshack@reddit
We used to pronounce the "k." We just stopped and never bothered updating the spelling.
BareTheBear66@reddit
Is this actually true??? We used to say K-nee?? That's funny.
Lamballama@reddit
And in "knight", it was "k-n-ich-t", where "ich" uses that throat sound Germans get mad at us for not saying their famous people's names with
Daddysheremyluv@reddit
I used to say KMart now I say the empty plaza where a Tractor Supply or Hobby Lobby might be going. I think it's the same.. maybe
Soundtracklover72@reddit
:Snort:
BareTheBear66@reddit
Lmao this got me good 🤣🤣
Ritterbruder2@reddit
English has a lot of banned consonant clusters at the beginning of words. That’s why “xylophone” is pronounced like “zylophone”, even though in Greek (where the word came from) the “x” is pronounced with a “ks” sound.
Same for “psychology”. The “p” is silent whereas it is not in Greek.
BareTheBear66@reddit
Funny in a sense that language changes all the time. English is a funny language in general lol
Crayshack@reddit
A very long time ago. IIRC, it was more of a Middle English thing than an Early Modern English thing. Germanic languages tend to love consonant clusters in general, and the "kn" combo was one of the standard ones. At some point, English lost the "kn" phoneme, but it's still around in other languages. In German, "knee" is "knie," which is pronounced exactly how "knee" looks.
BareTheBear66@reddit
Ah, love learning new things on this app. Very neat stuff. Language around the world is so cool, especially how much it overlaps eachother.
FlappyClap@reddit
In German, knee is Knie, and they pronounce the K. It’s interesting, because it shows just how closely the two languages are related.
BareTheBear66@reddit
That's actually super cool to know. Im in no way an expert on language but it is absolutely interesting how much language overlaps each other.
KarmicWhiplash@reddit
The whole language should be re-spelled.
justaguy12131@reddit
The problem is that now there are like 7 versions of English that all pronounce words slightly differently.
Missing4Bolts@reddit
Webster tried that, but with limited success.
udderlymoovelous@reddit
The K wasn't silent in old and middle English. Same with other words like "knight". The spelling just never changed when the pronunciation did.
MattieShoes@reddit
Now I can hear the French taunters in my head.
I blow my nose at you, so called Arthur King, you and all your silly English kuh-nig-its.
Most_Time8900@reddit
But "nee" is a different word
Necessary_Ground_122@reddit
From the French, and more correctly taking an accent on the first "e" to indicate it is pronounced "nay" instead of as "nee". Usually used for women to indicate their names before marriage.
jonesnori@reddit
There is a male version, "né". It's much less used in English, similarly to "blond" and "brunet". The only word like that where the male version gets much use is "fiancé", and a lot of people don't realize the distinction from "fiancée" and conflate the two.
Missing4Bolts@reddit
From the French "née", meaning "born".
Ritterbruder2@reddit
“Knee” has cognates in other Germanic languages (“Knie” in German and “kne” in Norwegian) where the “k” is not silent. There are other words too, like “knife” (“kniv” in Norwegian).
English pronunciation changed, but the spelling did not.
Slydownndye@reddit
Why are pants plural? It’s one piece of clothing.
Sowf_Paw@reddit
I think a long time ago, each pant leg would be a separate piece and the word just didn't get updated.
BreadPuddding@reddit
I don’t know that this is true, but it seems logical. They would have been more like chaps, with the goal of protecting your legs/hose, and you wouldn’t need them to cover the crotch. Most trousers are still made from two legs sewn together rather than a front and back piece (if you make them that way you also need a gusset).
Lamballama@reddit
They were simple leg covering, then your tunic would cover your modest areas. Tunics started getting shorter, so they invented cod pieces, then eventually they got fused into one garment
vemberic@reddit
Two pant legs make one pair of pants.
ghunt81@reddit
Also pliers. "Pair of pliers" is common but yeah, one tool.
Resi-Ipsa@reddit
At least English does not assign a gender to appliances like a washing machine.
Slydownndye@reddit
Ha so true. I suppose the illogical spelling, pronunciation and plural/singular weirdness balances out not having to gender my refrigerator.
jawshoeaw@reddit
Pant or pants is an abbreviation. There is no such thing as a pant. The original word is pantaloons, named after a character whose name was Pantalone. So pants isn’t really plural it’s more of a possessive or attribute word. “The thing that Pantalone wore”
jonesnori@reddit
Because the garment started out as two leggings tied together at the waist. The crotch was covered by your tunic then.
TheBimpo@reddit
What does a one legged person wear?
xRVAx@reddit
What do dogs do when they are hot? They pant.
What does one dog do when it is hot? It pants.
Slydownndye@reddit
I hope a one-legged Redditor will chime in to answer
Living_Murphys_Law@reddit
Because they are made seperate and sown together. Especially back in the day, nowadays they sometimes are made together but ya know.
eyetracker@reddit
The sartorial world says "pant". It's annoying.
OldChairmanMiao@reddit
Pretty much all of them. There are no rules without exceptions, some of them quite common.
Sorry, that's what happens when you mash three languages together and wait 1800 years to write a dictionary.
Mister-Grogg@reddit
If we’ve a sentence with a quote, the period at the end of my sentence is the end of my sentence, not necessarily the quote, especially if it’s not the end of the quoted sentence. So it should be:
It was President Kennedy who said, “We choose to go to the to the moon”.
(His sentence went on after that, so the period certainly isn’t part of the quote.)
But instead, the “proper” way is:
It was President Kennedy who said, “We choose to go to the to the moon.”
But he never said that! There was no period in his quote there. The full quote would be, “We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.”
If you quote part of it other than the end, then it misquotes him to say there is a period inside the quotes. It belongs outside. But the proper grammar is to put it inside anyway.
I hate that.
Various-Try-1208@reddit
Due to the history of education, English language rules are based on Latin grammar despite English being a Germanic language. So the real answer is all of them however the one that makes the least sense is against double negatives. Most native speakers recognize that double negatives emphasizes the negative not canceling it out. Language is not math. A close second is the rule against split infinitives. I was told that is one of the rules derived from Latin grammar that makes no sense to apply it to English.
Originally “grammar school “ was a place to learn Latin and Latin grammar in preparation for college which at one time was taught in Latin. When college started using English to teach and middle class kids started getting educated, “grammar school “ changed to English but since English had only been used by the vulgar (common) classes, it had no formal written grammar so Latin grammar was used when teaching English. At least that is how it was explained to me.
thescoopkid@reddit
Blinded should really be blound Reminded should be remound
SabresBills69@reddit
what rules! American English has absorbed many foreign language based words.
generally the cheaper words have Germanic/ Celtic/ Scandinavia roots while the 3+ syllable words tend to have French/ Latin origins.
english does not have structure rules like other languages.
this is the one area AI can be useful in. if you ask a group of 30 to write a concept in 2-3 sentences you will get 30 unique answers. anyone reading all of these woukd come to the same conclusion.
when I learned French in HS there was the adjective BAGS rule on placement going before the noun vs after the noun. BAGS stood for beauty, age, goodness, and size were adjectives groups that come first
toomuch3D@reddit
The exceptions part.
Competitive_Toe2544@reddit
Why is Kernel spelled Colonel? No other word in The English language uses L and O to form the R sound.
Significant_Bid2142@reddit
Zero being followed by plural because it's not singular, so it's lumped with plural form.
kenmohler@reddit
Putting the punctuation inside the quotes.
Real-Psychology-4261@reddit
Rules? We do grammar based on vibes. I don’t think about the rules.
Any-Safe763@reddit
Putting the sentence-ending-period INSDE the quotation marks even though the period is not part of the quotation!!!
ThingFuture9079@reddit
Why the plural form of some words doesn't just use an s at the end like mouse/mice instead of mouses or sheep which can mean 1 or more than 1 instead of sheeps to indicate 2 or more.
westslexander@reddit
All of them because there is always an exception
Buhos_En_Pantelones@reddit
Not a 'rule' I suppose, but why is it accepted to pronounce words (or phrases) wrong if they're not English?
I also realize I didn't answer the question at all haha
Is that irony?
MooseFlyer@reddit
I mean, because that’s how every language works. I can assure you that other languages aren’t all pronouncing English loanwords exactly like in English.
Buhos_En_Pantelones@reddit
No I get it. I'm just bitching on the Internet. It's because I'm a Spanish speaker, so hearing these words butchered so bad is like nails on a chalkboard haha
MattieShoes@reddit
Can you give an example? The only examples I can think of offhand are place names, like the idiots who mispronounce Buena Vista.
Buhos_En_Pantelones@reddit
To your example, basically any place in the Bay Area that has a Spanish name is mispronounced.
Mt. Diablo is Dye-ablo
Ballena (which should be bye-ain-a) is buh-leen-a
Vallejo is vuh-lay-ho
Valle Verde is vail-verd-ee
I could go on, but you get the idea.
MattieShoes@reddit
Yeah, it's very common with place names. Colorado has plenty too, like the aforementioned Buena Vista. Or if we want to go French, the Cache la Poudre river.
When I lived in Tucson (~70 miles from the Mexico border), the Spanish names were closer to correct. For instance, La Cañada was not "la canada", streets with "calle" were said correctly, the rillito river was said correctly (though sticking river on the end is silly), etc. But even there, "verde" was wrong.
randomransack@reddit
Phrases like “Won’t you just give it a try?”
It makes sense. But when you think about the contraction it’s all wrong: “Will not you just give it a try?”
Weirds me out that the word order changes that much based on the contraction.
SmoovCatto@reddit
doubling/not doubling a final consonant before adding -ing . . . a perfectly good rule one way or the other, so why must it be maybe/maybe not?
Bluestarkittycat@reddit
I dont think i have any major issues with the language rules of english, at least not immediately off the top of my head. Most of my issues with language rules is with French, cause im trying to learn it
kaci3po@reddit
Why things need to be spelled and pronounced differently depending on if you're in the US or the UK. I do not get why we need two different spellings of "neighbor"/"neighbour". And before anyone assumes, I don't actually mean that the American way is "right" or "better". I just mean it should all be standardized, regardless of country. If that means I have to start chucking extra u's in where they don't really need to be, that's fine. I'll spell it neighbour from now on gladly. I just want it to be one way or the other, not both. I don't particularly care which way is chosen, I just want somebody to pick one.
Moist-Ointments@reddit
a US citizen
Accomplished_Water34@reddit
'Aren't I' rather than 'amn't i'
Alert-Potato@reddit
The "prohibition" against double negatives.
"Always get a chicken" and "never don't get a chicken" when discussing rotisserie chickens from Costco are two wildly different statements. I refuse to believe the latter is wrong, especially as the first does not properly convey what I mean.
Expensive-View-8586@reddit
The use of the letter “c” why do we use it when we have “s” and “k”
languageservicesco@reddit
Using "an" before a vowel sound rather than all vowels 😉.
twxf@reddit
Something that I never noticed as weird until hearing foreigners making this mistake a few times :
"She has a beautiful voice"
"Yes, she does", not "Yes, she has"
hakohead@reddit
Keeping the punctuation inside the parentheses makes no sense to me. We should follow the British on that. They use punctuation more logically.
Also the fake rules like “no split infinitives” and “no prepositions at the beginning of the sentence.” It’s unnecessary
BeeinCV@reddit
It’s not really a rule but I can’t stand all the homophones (different spellings but same pronunciation) and heteronyms (same spelling but different pronunciations)
justaguy12131@reddit
Flammable and inflammable meaning the same thing. Though I suppose this is not actually a rule, and more of an exception to a rule.
Repulsive_Ad_656@reddit
Split infinitives feel natural to me, eg I want to quickly improve my English
Crayshack@reddit
No split infinitives isn't even a real English rule. It's a rule from Latin, and at some point, some Romaboos wanted English to be more like Latin and so started trying to enforce some Latin rules on the language. A few of them somehow stuck around.
Saying that you can't end a sentence with a preposition is another one we're stuck with.
PhysicsEagle@reddit
*With which we’re stuck
Crayshack@reddit
glare upon
Drinking_Frog@reddit
It's not even a rule in Latin. It's just that Latin verbs are a single word.
Gravbar@reddit
i think there is a rule about not splitting prepositional phrases in Latin, but I've not studied it too much. those would be verbal phrases that consist of a preposition like in or ad followed by a form of the verb. Perhaps that's where that rule came from rather than the infinitives of Latin, since it wouldn't make any sense to talk about splitting that.
duke_awapuhi@reddit
Both feel natural to me but the split infinitive does feel slightly less proper
ProminentLocalPoster@reddit
That's because they are natural.
The idea you aren't supposed to do it was introduced by people trying to arbitrarily impose Latin grammar rules on the English language.
It's not a normal, natural rule of the language that emerged on it's own, it was people trying to unilaterally declare that English grammar should be more like Latin grammar.
CatNamedSiena@reddit
So did a particular French starship captain. To boldly go where no one has gone before.
Shevyshev@reddit
I think most modern grammarians agree that splitting infinitives is totally fine. The rule originated from prescriptivists, centuries ago, who believed that since single word infinitives cannot be split in Latin, they must not be split in English - a Germanic language, where infinitives are two words. It’s total nonsense.
Curmudgy@reddit
Iirc, even Fowler, who wouldn’t hesitate to prescribe when he thought necessary, approved of splitting infinitives. But I suppose he was neither prescriptivist nor descriptivist, but applied each principle as appropriate in his opinion.
BearsSoxHawks@reddit
That’s fine. Just don’t write that way.
thatrandomuser1@reddit
To boldly claim it shouldn't be used in writing makes no sense. Splitting the infinitive can be effective at clearly communicating.
Living_Murphys_Law@reddit
"Language is written in speech, not in stone."
dew2459@reddit
Splitting infinitives is perfectly normal in English.
In the late 1800s some annoying people decided English should be more like Latin. Split infinitives aren't a thing in Latin, so they decreed that was also bad in English. Most people understand it is a made up rule with no real basis in English grammar, and ignore the silly people who try to enforce that "rule".
BearsSoxHawks@reddit
Also, it isn’t important to follow rules absolutely.
Useful-Place-2920@reddit
All of them.
Hyperdragoon17@reddit
Why silent letters need to exist
TruckADuck42@reddit
French. The answer is french.
MooseFlyer@reddit
For some of them, sure, but tons of them have nothing to do with French.
French isn’t responsible for the silent e at the end of words, which is probably the most common silent letter in English. It’s also not responsible for silent, the silent in “climb, lamb, debt”, the silent in “often, fasten, bristle”, the silent in “salmon, half, talk”, the silent in “sword, wrong,wrap” or the silent in “knife” and “knight”. Some of the words with silent like “assign” or “align” come from French, but in French is a digraph representing a different sound - not their fault we decided to say “fuck that, well just pronounce it as an /n/ but keep the spelling”. Some silent s are because of French, but lots aren’t. We can thank them for the silent
in “corps” and “coup”, but not in “receipt”
Living_Murphys_Law@reddit
It's so fun blaming the French and it actually being accurate
00zau@reddit
Blaming the French is always accurate.
jonesnori@reddit
Well, mostly. There are other reasons (e.g. "debt"). Robwords did a whole video on it.
meowmix778@reddit
This one took a while to figure out as a kid but "debit" and "credit" always felt backwards to me.
EmploymentEmpty5871@reddit
There are so many, the i aftere except after c, but there are so many exceptions, word that are spelled the same, but are pronounced differently, and mean 2 different things, like lead, lead. The list can be/bee endless.
No_Procedure_3799@reddit
Not ending a sentence with a preposition. Never understood what the problem is with that
MagicalPizza21@reddit
Silent letters make no sense.
Kielbasa_Nunchucka@reddit
not ending sentences and clauses with a preposition just makes them feel clunky sometimes. also, splitting infinitives. ignoring these rules feels more intuitive to a modern speaking cadence.
maddox-monroe@reddit
Every rule in the English language should when with “except when it’s not.”
pikkdogs@reddit
Well, we don’t memorize rules, we just know what the proper grammar is because that’s what we hear. And if it sounds weird than it’s wrong.
But why big red new house makes sense and red new big house doesn’t I don’t know.
catiebug@reddit
I tell you, this was the toughest lesson when I was teaching English overseas.
Little, green car? Perfection. Green, little car? Like a cheese grater on my brain. "So how do native speakers remember it?" We don't. It's ingrained. Even toddlers get it right and there's no lesson or mnemonic we all learned. You ask a native speaker what OSASCOMP stands for (Opinion, Size, Age, Shape, Color, Origin, Material, Purpose), they're gonna look at you like you have six heads. I hate to break it to you guys, but this one is just going to come with practice and immersion.
It's my favorite example to throw at the "immigrants should learn English" crowd. Learning a language is hard.
On_my_last_spoon@reddit
I have unsuccessfully tried to learn 2 other languages. One of them I lived with native speakers for 8 years! Gave up at some point.
So much respect for anyone who learns English as a 2nd language!
PAXICHEN@reddit
Don’t get me started on German. I’m too old for this shit.
drsoftware@reddit
Worse is the crowd of "immigrants should learn fluent English without accents that make our brains work."
bike619@reddit
FTFY
PAXICHEN@reddit
Wearing the +5 cloak of pedantry I see. Bravo, I have the +10 cloak in my closet.
theClanMcMutton@reddit
"red new big house" still makes sense, it just makes it sound like you're calling special attention to "red." Maybe it's next to a "blue new big house."
drsoftware@reddit
"multiple adjectives are always ranked accordingly: opinion, size, age, shape, colour, origin, material, purpose."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/13/sentence-order-adjectives-rule-elements-of-eloquence-dictionary
Exceptions: The Big Bad Wolf. Clip-Clop, Flip-flop... Also discussed in the article.
unchained-wonderland@reddit
like any rule in this fucking language, even this is not always true, although deviations from it carry additional information. a metal door from france would be a french metal door but a french-style door made of metal would be a metal french door
eyetracker@reddit
The second most inconsistent language, French, puts adjectives about Beauty, Age, Number, Goodness, and Size before the noun and everything after.
Deathwatch72@reddit
Adjective order always kinda blows me away because there are like 8 "categories" and if you mix up any of them it sounds wrong! It's also one of the only rules of English that I can think of that has no exceptions, although it does appear to be outranked as a rule by ablaut reduplication in Big Bad Wolf, but I've also heard an argument that "Big Bad" is a name of a specific wolf and not a description which I kinda subscribe too
pls_send_caffeine@reddit
I don't like either of those! I would prefer to say: the new big red house. It just sounds better that way to me (even if it's technically wrong). 🤷♀️
jephph_@reddit
You said you like the one that they said is correct.
Both of you said “new big red house”
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
I do memorize rules, though. Lol But it's a special interest of mine. I recognize that most don't.
SadMayMan@reddit
Size before color before adjective
woodwork16@reddit
New big red house works too
dachjaw@reddit
Apparently all languages have an accepted adjective order.
Silvanus350@reddit
This is the order of adjectives rule in English.
TheyMakeMeWearPants@reddit
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/parts-of-speech/adjective-order/
TL;DR:
CloudCumberland@reddit
The placement of punctuation relative to quotation marks.
jord839@reddit
I grew up semi-bilingual (dad stopped letting us use his native language at home after a while), but the one that was always really annoying to me was just how many exceptions there are. G before I or E is always supposed to make a "j" sound, except for a foundational word like "give" or "get", and both of those words also break other rules, as "give" has a silent e at the end, which normally means a long vowel like "I" or "eye" pronunciation, meanwhile "get" with an extra -t would be very clearly following the short vowel rules = double consonant rules.
Saying them was always fine, I was already used to it, but first learning to write them and hearing how diverged they were from the rules really, really annoyed me.
Resi-Ipsa@reddit
Let's not forget gnu (pronounced "new")
Unusual-Biscotti687@reddit
I can help you with that. Generally words where G has a hard sound before E or I are of Norse origin. Palatisation of C and G happened in Old English but not Norse. Hence pairs like Shirt and Skirt, Church and Kirk, -wich and -wick (Keswick might have been Cheswich if jt had been in the South of the country).
The E on give goes back again to Old English. In OE, F and V were considered versions of the same sound; spelt F and pronounced V between vowels and F elsewhere. This meant the V sound never occurred finally. When loss of final syllables exposed a V in the late Middle English period, by which time V was used in the spelling, it just looked wrong and so the final E was kept in the spelling, even when the previous vowel was still short.
There's a final addendum to this strange tale - U and V were considered the same letter so this "no final V" thing extended to the vowel U - hence spellings like True, Blue, Flue.
gutclutterminor@reddit
ough, sounding like an F sometimes, and an O others.
PAXICHEN@reddit
My favorite Onion quip from a couple of decades ago was that William Safire went to Burger King and ordered 2 Whoppers Junior.
PhysicsEagle@reddit
The rule against using prepositions to end sentences with.
JustbyLlama@reddit
Been Seen Done Gone Read Read Etc
Jumpy-Dig5503@reddit
The whole language was created by hot-gluing several, unrelated languages together without any attempt to harmonize anything.
It started when the French-speaking Normans invaded England and subjugated the Germanic-speaking Saxons to the peasant class. That’s when our ancestors took French and German and, well, glop, glop, smoosh! We can still see this in our came to bovines. The live animal is called a cow (from German) while the meat is called beef (French).
Since then, we’ve borrowed stuff from all over the world. Orange comes from Spanish. Graffiti is Italian, alcohol is Arabic,shampoo is Hindi, and ketchup is Chinese!
It got even worse as colonies broke away from the UK and no longer had the link to the source to keep things in sync.Americans have macho, boondocks, and eggplant, while Brit’s have smog, naff, and aubergine.
All this has resulted in wildly inconsistent rules for everything from spelling to conjugation. It sometimes seems like it would be easier to abandon the rules and just teach each word individually.
JeffTheNth@reddit
So I've learned, as a native English-speaking American, that all the "rules" for the English language are more guidelines for simplicity, and NONE of them are hard-fast rules.
(And just FYI - that "fast" isn't quick, but secure, as in "fastened".)
I before E, except after C, or when your weird neighbor sleigh leisurely seizes speed records swooping down the mountainside....
Sentences ending with prepositional phrases should not be. But you should know what they're used for.
You should capitalize the first letter of sentences, and all proper nouns, like the iPhone, eBay, von Richthofen (the Red Baron), ... oh, wait... Oops...
The words in titles should be capitalized... except the words that aren't...
etc. etc.
The rules are GENERALLY true, but there are too many exceptions.
JeffTheNth@reddit
....not to mention the difficulties with pronounciation...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObkJNstaog8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXW3Xk_cLag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5aDB7WgTeo
etc. etc. etc.. :)
np99sky@reddit
English is influenced by several different language families. We don't really focus on rules for words or even grammar, although you learn it in school. If you consume enough proper English (not online English or dumb YouTube comments, just reading enough or speaking) you naturally recognize and internalize it.
artgarfunkadelic@reddit
When to use "a" vs "an"
The "an" before a vowel rule doesn't work. You go by the sound of the first letter.
jessek@reddit
"ough" having like 11 different pronunciations. I remember my Spanish teacher had a poster showing them all that said something like "think learning Spanish is hard? this is what Spanish speakers learning English have to deal with"
General_Ad_6617@reddit
Big, red car. Not red, big car. That trips me out, but you won't hear me saying it wrong.
robsagency@reddit
It’s “a US citizen” not “an”.
bedwars_player@reddit
There are way too many to's.. like... more than two is ridiculous.
OhLookAnotherTankie@reddit
Silent letters. Why include them at all?
IcyBus1422@reddit
Silent letters
c3534l@reddit
I'm still confused why "next Saturday" refers to the Saturday after the Saturday that will occur next.
Canada_Haunts_Me@reddit
Because the Saturday coming up is "this Saturday," which will be followed by "next Saturday."
c3534l@reddit
Right, but why? Why wouldn't the Saturday coming up be next Saturday since it is the next Saturday to come up? When you say "next year" you don't mean two years from now, but it does when you're talking about days of the week and ONLY days of the week.
Canada_Haunts_Me@reddit
Hey, no one claimed the language was consistent!
But it doesn't only apply to days of the week. We also use this convention for months and holidays. I'm staying home this December, which means I'll be home this Christmas, but next December I'm going to visit my in-laws, and will spend next Christmas with them.
c3534l@reddit
I've not encountered that. This December and next December seem to always mean the same thing, unless its currently December.
omega884@reddit
Probably regional then, because that's also how I've always heard and used the terms. "This December" will be December 2025, "Next December" is December 2026. I think it's probably largely because when talking about part of a cyclical time period, you're very rarely talking about the current moment, so an unqualified part is almost always the soonest up coming one or if speaking in the past tense, the most recently past one (though this one is a bit more random, last X in my experience means "the most recently past X" a lot more often than "next X" means "the closest future X". Adding qualifiers to words should generally convey some extra meaning. If "I'm going to the park Saturday" and "I'm going to the park next Saturday" mean the same thing, why bother with "next" at all?
I think another part of it has to do with these things being components of a larger whole, where "next" and "last" refer to the whole that they're a part of, and then the component is the specific part of that whole. So "next Saturday" can also be heard as "next week on Saturday" or "last December" is "last year in December" (which also I think explains why it's also more common to hear "last X" refer to the most recently past one). An relevant example here is that it's probably unlikely that on Wednesday you will tell someone "I went to the part last Monday" when you mean to convey that you went there 2 days prior. The implied context of your time frame is "the current week" so "last Monday" would mean "last week, on Monday"
Soundtracklover72@reddit
I usually use “this coming Saturday” and “the following Saturday” so I’m clear because even if it’s a rule, no one know wtf you’re saying.
cryptoengineer@reddit
The lack of a widely accepted indefinite singular pronoun. We have he/him/his, she/her/her, but if we don't know the gender of the person being referenced, we fall back on 'they/them/their', which immediately causes confusion in number, since they are normally used for groups.
This has nothing to do with gender politics - its a problem even if everyone involved is of the 'there are only two genders' camp.
VacuumsCantSpell@reddit
Subjunctive tense.
Mysterious-Being5043@reddit
Weird abbreviations: oz for ounce, lb for pound.
SassyMoron@reddit
There's an order adjectives have to go in, based on what they describe, and I was never taught it. Nevertheless it sounds super weird if it's scrambled. E.g. a black happy scruffy little dog.
1chomp2chomp3chomp@reddit
Probably all of the stupid spelling rules and how the language is not spoken exactly as it is written because the English didn't have their shit together when standardizing the written language happened.
guacamoleo@reddit
What exactly the difference is between effect and affect. I just default to "effect" because it seems safer
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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firepitt@reddit
Silent "K", know what I mean?
Onetorulethemalll@reddit
Hanged themselves instead of hung.
jackfaire@reddit
Given names. We have a street spelled Couch but it's named after a man who pronounced it Cooch
Maleficent-Bug-2045@reddit
Ok, this one makes sense to me from studying foreign languages, but I have to think about it in English.
“Me and him went to the store”, instead of “he and I”
And “he told she and I where to go” instead of “me and her”
It’s a matter of case. But people in English don’t really understand case formally. Though we would never say “give it to I!”
LV_camera@reddit
Why is Arkansas not pronounced R-Kansas?
375InStroke@reddit
None, because they all get broken.
stabbingrabbit@reddit
Most of them that have exceptions .
popfilms@reddit
The rules are all too convoluted, especially as someone who grew up with dyslexia.
If I write something, I just read it and revise until it just 'sounds right' or whatever that means. Not sure what else anyone is supposed to do.
BobsleddingToMyGrave@reddit
Cough. Through phlegm knife
JenniferJuniper6@reddit
None of the rules make any sense. It’s a language; it’s organic and constantly changing.
jenesaispas_bby@reddit
Though, Thought, Through, Tough. how tf are they all pronounced differently?? wtf?
Prize_Consequence568@reddit
"What English language rule still doesn’t make sense you, even as an US born citizen?"
The alphabet.
Pretending that there's only one order for it(abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz). Any order is fine.
Boredpanda6335@reddit
The spelling. It’s so inconsistent and random at times that sometimes I wonder if I’m truly dyslexic, or that English is just that hard to read and write.
thatrandomuser1@reddit
So many of the English words that are difficult to spell were borrowed from other languages with different spelling rules
jonesnori@reddit
Yes, but also, English went through the Great Vowel Shift, and it happened after spellings were semi-standardized because of the printing press, so spellings didn't change to match.
Upset_Ad147@reddit
Silent letters.
Why, just why do we need silent letters.
A knife is still a nife without the “k”
xRVAx@reddit
'A' versus 'an' for acronyms and "words that start with h"
An hour
A hoop
An history?
A UFO?
An unidentified flying object
Environmental-Gap380@reddit
The rule for not ending a sentence with a preposition is a bad standard. Turns out it goes back to people who wanted English to be more like Latin. However, English is a language that absorbed Germanic, Celtic, Norman French, Latin, Greek, and other elements. Trying to make it more like Latin doesn’t always fit. Trying to rearrange a sentence to avoid an ending preposition can make it sound awkward and stilted.
MattieShoes@reddit
I wouldn't say this doesn't make sense, but when I learned other languages put adjectives AFTER the noun... Good lord, that makes so much more sense than the English way.
La_Vikinga@reddit
I'm not sure that's a "doesn't make sense" thing, but it's a fairly unspoken rule that word order matters, especially when it comes to adjectives.
I found this to semi explain what I mean: According to Mark Forsyth’s book 'The Elements of Eloquence: How To Turn the Perfect English Phrase,' the stakes are higher than you might think: “If you mess with that order in the slightest you’ll sound like a maniac,” he writes. Forsyth might be exaggerating for effect, but it’s still true that mixing up the order of adjectives in his example — “a lovely little old rectangular green French silver whittling knife” — into, say, “a rectangular old French little green lovely silver whittling knife” makes the description almost incoherent. Fortunate, then, that we all abide by order force whether we mean to or not.
Forsyth also notes “Adjectives in English absolutely have to be in this order: opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose noun… Green great dragons can’t exist.”
As well as “When you repeat a word with a different vowel, the order is always I A O… So politicians may flip-flop, but they can never flop-flip.”
James_T_S@reddit
https://youtu.be/JYqfVE-fykk?si=Y_d1Hv9ZkSifzvgE
Just going to leave this here
ossifer_ca@reddit
All spelling is arbitrary.
hornwalker@reddit
The fact that a word like literally can literally have both the original meaning and the exact opposite meaning at the same time
Soundtracklover72@reddit
I do believe this one only applies to speaking because it comes down to tone when you say it. Otherwise, I think “literally” would need to be in quotes in order to portray the opposite.
BubbhaJebus@reddit
"My sister's and my [book, house, school, etc.]".
I was never taught this structure in school and was in my 40s by the time I learned this was the proper grammar. Not knowing how to say it properly, I would always avoid it. It still sounds wrong to me.
Soundtracklover72@reddit
I agree. I’d reword the sentence to get around it. Like “the book that belonged to my sister and me” which may not even be correct.
BubbhaJebus@reddit
That is correct.
TechnologyDragon6973@reddit
Lay and lie with their tenses gets confusing.
MollySleeps@reddit
Period inside the ending quotation mark when the full sentence isn't a quote.
Guilty_Objective4602@reddit
The not splitting infinitives rule and the not ending a sentence with a preposition rule.
“Which party are you taking those balloons to?” sounds way more normal than, “To which party are you taking those balloons?”
BandanaDee13@reddit
It was Kernel Mustard! …Wait, that’s not right. Kornul? Coronel? Wait, what do you mean it has an L? You mean it’s actually pronounced “CALL-uh-nel”? …No? What even is this language anymore…?
“Woman” becoming “women” in the plural even though it’s the other vowel that changes when spoken is up there too. And that’s just scratching the surface of absurd English spelling rules…
Reasonable_Wasabi124@reddit
English is made up of a combination of several languages, so the mixture is going to be confusing at times. But if you look at the language the word is coming from, then it makes sense.
Living_Murphys_Law@reddit
The whole "if you don't know gender, say 'he'" thing. That's what 'they' is for, isn't it?
Daddysheremyluv@reddit
Our dates naming convention as in the order and range of specificity. Medium (month) small (day) Grand (year) minuscule (hour and minute) less minuscule (1/2 of day)
December 25, 2025 at 9:30 am
Soundtracklover72@reddit
I’m of the belief, after using a computer for 30 years, that dates should be YEAR, MONTH, DAY, HOUR, MINUTE because then you can properly put things in chronological order.
Spicyface86@reddit
Why the dollar sign goes before the number
Soundtracklover72@reddit
I’m going to guess it has something to do with the US wanting to be special because I was taught that a dollar sign was originally a U over an S. That changed to the S with 2 lines and eventually we landed on $.
CharlieBearns@reddit
So much doesn't make sense, and I love it! We're the melting pot for languages, too! That's why we have spelling bees, and contestants ask for the language of origin. Our "rules" are a hodgepodge of other languages' rules. It's chaos!
Beeb294@reddit
The rule about ending sentences with prepositions is stupid.
To quote Churchill, "that is the kind of pedantry up with which I will not put!"
Stupid_Bitch_02@reddit
How Though and Cough look like they should rhyme but they do not
Pkrudeboy@reddit
We don’t have rules, so much as guidelines.
FreedomBread@reddit
There are different uses of gh and I have at times found it very funny to mispronounce words ending with gh.
I thought the rough sleigh was tough and I coughed, although the slough was thorough enough.
I thouffed the ruff sleiff was tuff and I coffed, althouff the slouff was thorouff enuff.
Tim-oBedlam@reddit
All the various spellings of the -ough- letter combo
Cough (rhymes with scoff)
Rough and tough (rhymes with buff)
Through and slough (rhymes with you)
Though (rhymes with row)
Drought, and bough (rhymes with shout, or how)
and some obscure ones like lough (the Irish English spelling of loch, rhyming with rock except with a more aspirated -k- sound)
Curmudgy@reddit
Your question is flawed. Some might say it even begs the question, because it presumes the English language has rules.
_redlr@reddit
Not really a rule but I wish we could get rid of "whom" cause no one friggin says whom and all it does is confuse everyone lol
Bitter_Face8790@reddit
The period goes inside the quote.
Soundtracklover72@reddit
I always gauge this on what I’m putting in quotes which is wrong apparently. Whoops.
Spicyface86@reddit
Yeah, it's not like we're using moveable type anymore.
Strong_Landscape_333@reddit
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
That's an actual sentence, with each buffalo meaning something different.
You can put that in to Google and read the Wikipedia article explaining it.
OldBob10@reddit
I just talk - I don’t think about “rules”. I can’t actually think of any off the top of my head. 🤷♂️
HeyItsMeJC3@reddit
Why does the word "busing" have only one S? Spelt like that, it should be pronounced "byoosing".
MrsMorley@reddit
Because “bussing” is kissing.
Firm_Rock6519@reddit
Enough, although, through
rocketbewts@reddit
If someone owns something, you put 's "This is Alex's car."
But if their name ends with s, you just slap the ' at the end with no extra s. "This is Alexis' car."
And almost no one does it correctly, so you get "Alexis's" a lot, or people confused when you write "Alexis'"
Drinking_Frog@reddit
You are the one who is not correct, though. That's why so few do it the way you say.
Apostrophe-s should follow a singular noun that ends with an s. Leave off the s if the noun is plural and ends with an s.
Correct: "This is Alexis's car."
Correct: "This is the Smiths' car."
Incorrect: "This is Alexis' car."
rocketbewts@reddit
I am now pissed because I KNOW this is how I learned to do it in elementary school :,)
Canada_Haunts_Me@reddit
Don't fret; I was taught the same. I wonder if this is something that has changed over the years and you and I are a bit older than the person who insists we're wrong.
eyetracker@reddit
These are Alexis' cherrie's for sale
Gyvon@reddit
We see them more as 'guidelines'
ssssssddh@reddit
It's vs its
The apostrophe is used for contractions as well as possessive nouns so I often times can't remember if it's correct.
vase-of-willows@reddit
Why I believe you should have used the article “a” instead of “an” in your post.
PositiveAtmosphere13@reddit
I before E except after C.
It doesn't work.
grawmpy@reddit
The rule of not ending a sentence in a preposition. It's a Latin language rule used in a Germanic language that doesn't work and makes sentences sound strange.
vase-of-willows@reddit
Why the possessive “its” doesn’t have an apostrophe.
oneeyedziggy@reddit
Why the letter C exists when we already have K ans S... Similar with Q... why half the usage of G can't be moved to J... Uppercase (non-seriff) I being almost indistinguishable from lowercase L...
Imaginary-Unit2379@reddit
The dangling preposition. What's it even for?
Tandom@reddit
That words like Bomb, Comb,Tomb/womb all sound different.
Gunbunnyulz@reddit
Getting rid of the U in words that clearly have the sound.
Party_Condition2472@reddit
i before, except after c and also when you heinously seize your feisty foreign neighbor's conceited beige heifer from the ceiling.
Weird.
dragon_morgan@reddit
its vs it's. It's not like that for actual names. Bob's coming over later. That's Bob's car. "It" should work the same
Wielder-of-Sythes@reddit
If q always has to be flowed by u what’s the point of have it as a separate letter?
AudienceSilver@reddit
I took a History of English course in college which shed a lot of light on our spelling oddities. One major factor was that the Great Vowel Shift (which is why our long vowels don't match those of other languages which use the same alphabet) had the poor timing to happen just as the printing press was starting to standardize English spelling. So often spellings became fixed while pronunciation was still changing.
There are other reasons why pronunciation changed over time, but the one overarching lesson from that class: the spelling of a particular word actually made sense at the time and place when it was fixed. It just doesn't now.
Playful-Park4095@reddit
Needless complications like all the need for a different term for groups of animals based on the animal. A herd of ducks would work just as well as a flock of cows. Pick one. Plurals that don't follow the rules, again often animal related. Deer is singular and plural but mouse becomes mice while goose becomes geese while horse becomes horses. Don't get me started about those damned oxen.
Wunktacular@reddit
There's a proper academic English used in study and research that's very different from casual speech in any other English dialect, and it's used as a standard to make communication easier, especially when working with foreign scholars who need translations.
Certain people have decided that academic English is the only "correct" way to speak and that other dialects are somehow incorrect, unintelligent, and shameful.
Mostly, that opinion comes up as a way to bully ruralites and people from minority communities while still trying to take a moral high ground.
It's sick, and the fact that people can get away with open discrimination in this way by claiming that they're just trying to spread an educated point of view really irritates me.
Aryya261@reddit
Homophones
Don’t desert your dessert in the desert. They’re fun but confusing.
RobertSaccamano@reddit
When I moved to Wisconsin it was weird to hear "yet" used in place of still, like "im working yet". Im used to it now but never heard it anywhere else before!
Sanjomo@reddit
Plane / Plain
Bolder / Boulder
Canon / Cannon
Creek / Creak
Baring / Bearing
Peek / Peak /Pique
Rain / Reign/ Rein
WAY TOO MANY homophones and polysemy words!
carlitospig@reddit
Processes. I’m an analyst and the fact that I have to completely say the main stem of this word differently or it sounds like I have a lisp is ridiculous. Prahssess becomes Prohssess ONLY if it’s a multiple otherwise it would be Prahssessess, which would basically sound like Harry Potter talking to a snake.
English is so weird. I blame the Germans. 🧐
TillPsychological351@reddit
This isn't an actual rule, but a stylistic choice. I never understood why ending a sentence with a preposition is considered poor usage, especially when separable verbs in other Germanic languages require this.
C_Lo_87@reddit
Tongue
classicalySarcastic@reddit
The Grammar is more what you’d call guidelines, than actual rules.
CarmineDoctus@reddit
Compound first-person possessives are very clunky. Let’s say Joe and I have a dog. Is it “Joe’s and my dog?” I think that’s the most correct but it feels sort of unnatural and clunky. “Joe and I’s dog” is no good. “Joe and my dog”? Honestly the best solution is probably “me and Joe’s dog”, but the grammar sticklers will look down on you for using “me”.
IllustriousCabinet11@reddit
Why is the contraction for will not “won’t?”
El_Bean69@reddit
It makes sense and I know the difference but I have a primal hatred for Affect vs Effect
-a-rabbit-@reddit
Not so much a rule, but I've always been confused by some of the spelling differences between the UK and US. Color vs colour, defense vs defence, etc..
not_a_burner0456025@reddit
Those ones are funny, the British spelling is emulating the French spelling of the words, the American spelling is because early American dictionary writers didn't want to spell it like the French and spelled it in a way that is a closer phonetic match to the English pronunciation, but if you are familiar with a bit of history The British have not historically been very fond of the French and France has been one of America's oldest allies, but a not insignificant number of British people get upset about Americans spelling things less like the French whine also searching for any excuse to mock the French.
drsoftware@reddit
Grey vs gray. The English use an 'E', the Americans an 'A'.
I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, USA, and I always use grey.
FlappyClap@reddit
The British are the odd ones for spelling defense as defence.
In Old French, it was defense, from Latin defensus and defensum. In Middle English, it was defens.
It’s the same with color, honor, favor, etc. It’s how these words were spelled in Old French.
With a huge influx of immigrants from all over, teachers and students were confused by all the spelling variations.
Noah Webster decided we needed to standardize, and settled on prior spellings, rather than these new spellings coming from the UK.
Even the -ize suffix is correct for Greek words, and the list of Latin words that should have -ise suffix is short, surprise for example. The British use -ise suffix for everything, including Greek words, and Oxford disagrees with it.
alloutofbees@reddit
This is pretty simple, actually: before the 18th century, spelling was not standardized and multiple spellings for many words were in common usage, even by the same people; Shakespeare used both colour and color, for example. Then in Britain, Samuel Johnson chose what he preferred for his dictionary, and Noah Webster chose what he preferred for his, and sometimes they differed, resulting in those differences becoming generalized. The reason -or and -our both existed is because -or reflects the Latin words and -our reflects Old French spellings.
-a-rabbit-@reddit
Well then I certainly don't feel bad for just using whatever I like then.
cowgirlbootzie@reddit
Why are we so obsessed with the letter ",p", as in P-neumonia!
Kakistocrat945@reddit
How I went through 45 years of my life, especially engaged in language-related pursuits throughout, and only upon taking a grammar course for copyediting, did I learn of the topsy-turvy world of phrasal verbs. I have such sympathy for foreign speakers who have to learn that phrasal verbs like "put out" and "put down" have much different meanings than the individual words that make them up do. And phrasal verbs are everywhere.
ocvagabond@reddit
The whole GD language. There are too many loan words for any rules to make sense.
There’s a reason Spanish doesn’t have a Spelling Bee. There’s no challenge when the words are spelled like the phonetics.
AAHedstrom@reddit
social attitudes towards different accents. there's some accents that are considered "incorrect" or "less educated" such as many accents in the southeastern part of the country, and it doesn't make any sense. maybe more of a sociology thing than a linguistics thing, but I really don't understand why anyone would judge someone for the way the pronounced words (and I'm someone whose speech is considered "correct")
over61guy@reddit
Ph pronounced as F.
Goat_Goddesss@reddit
An history lesson.
BearsSoxHawks@reddit
That’s wrong, actually.
serialband@reddit
English has so much crap because it's a bastard language and also the "standard" spellings happened during a time of change just as the printing press came out, so we got https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gHE9blt0mQ
mistyjeanw@reddit
Adjectives have a priority. I don't know it, I just use it by habit: it's a big, fat bird; not a fat big bird.
MuscaMurum@reddit
The construction "Would that I might." I love it because it's so weird. I know it's archaic, but still say it in a jokey way.
Equivalent_Ad_8413@reddit
Adjective order
ToastetteEgg@reddit
Most English language rules were set in England and other European countries. A lot of them don’t make sense in American English, but do more with British accents and it’s very long history.
moonmoonboog@reddit
Nothing reminds you more of how messed up your language is than having kids. Lol so many questions that me or Google don’t have good answers for😆
Sleepygirl57@reddit
Zero reason to have silent letters.
DGinLDO@reddit
Not ending a sentence with a preposition & only one negative in a sentence.
KarmicWhiplash@reddit
Can't end a sentence with a preposition.
hawken54321@reddit
I before E except for sometimes not.
Aggressive_Syrup2897@reddit
For me, it's why our third person singular conjugation (present tense only) is always the exception. I do, you do, we do, you all do, they do . . . but he/she/it does.
I sing, you sing, we sing, you all sing, they sing . . . but he/she/it sings.
You'll see this pattern repeated ad nauseum.
Just make them all the flipping same, like we do for part and future tenses. We don't need to conjugate anyway because we require the use of a noun or pronoun to accompany the verb. Any kind of conjugation of the verb is superfluous.
Chapea12@reddit
That seemingly unspoken rule of how we organize multiple adjectives.
Like the big, red car is correct but not the red, big car
FunkySalamander1@reddit
We do have a lot of words that look like they should rhyme but don’t even come close.
I’m currently trying to learn French. I’m glad English doesn’t assign gender to objects seemingly at random. They’re, their, and there are bad enough.
CraftFamiliar5243@reddit
Cough, through
Hoopajoops@reddit
When one that always kinda bugs me is the rule that specifies the natural flow of words in sentences. For example: saying "the blue big bus" just.. doesn't feel right. It has to be "the big blue bus" and I don't know why
ThePurityPixel@reddit
Passers-by is still a little odd. I think I'd be fine with passer-bies. I dunno. That's weird, too.
I'm also fine with dropping what's supposed to be required comma before the above usage of "too."
stiletto929@reddit
It can be hard to get I and me correct in informal speech.
OGMom2022@reddit
Most of them. It shouldn’t be so complicated.
atwork314@reddit
i before e except after c