Digitize the gauge cluster, the gauges are old feeling and the "gear indicator" is completely pointless.
Fuck. That.
The gauge clusters are gorgeous, focused, and timeless - exactly what I want in a sports car.
It's so disappointing to get in a modern BMW and see that it has the same cluster / IID layout as a Hyundai. Likewise, take a look at Aston's clusters now and compare them to the VH-era cars that beautiful watch-like dials and gauges. It's incomparable and just another example of enshittification.
Touch screen for the infotainment since the dial isn't great on its own.
I had a rental the past week and it felt cumbersome to use a touchscreen for infotainment. Also, it seemed a bit more unsafe to use the touchscreen since it "grabbed" my attention more than just using the dial.
On my ND2, I've never felt that I was losing anything using the dial.
The gear shift indicator is pretty useless but it's a regulation in EU to improve MPG / reduce emissions for manual transmission cars, so that's why they included it.
It's pretty dumb when it wants you to hold 6th gear going up a steep uphill at 35 MPH practically lugging the engine.
Idk there’s something to be enjoyed about a physical tachometer and speedometer. Maybe I’m just an old-head but I’m not driving the Miata for the tech, having those as physical components is endearing.
One of the bigger car review channel said that most modern enthusiasts would balk at the S2000 when they actually drive it. I never drove one but think I'm spoiled by the immediate punch from turbo charged engines.
The 2-liter ND1 is inferior to the 2-liter ND2 in every way. Why should we glorify an unfinished product that only existed to appease American buyers, when the later version does the same thing - only better?
The ND1 is the only car I can think of that actually weighs less than its predecessor.
The engineers had to decide where to devote their resources. They could have spent time producing more power or they could have shaved weight. They decided to shave weight, and the result is the foundation of the current Miata.
This is proof that the designers of the car understood its purpose. No one buys a Miata to win drag races. They buy it for lightness, which the ND1 absolutely delivered.
You sound like all the other keyboard warriors in car forums who act like a nominal boost in power completely transformed the experience. The Miata experience is lightness, not its engine.
Correct. During an interview with Yamamoto I believe, he stated that they did not have the budget initially to spend as much time and resources on the engine and instead was focused on the gram strategy. He stated that he had wanted to make the ND2 engine, but even given the Fiat partnership, they lacked resources.
My point is that if he had gone with building the engine instead of the gram strategy, we would just have a heavier ND just like every other car is getting heavier.
Do stop waffling about things you clearly know no nothing about. It was nothing to do with weight. The ND1 was designed around the 1.5-litre engine. The 2.0 ND1 only existed because, as always, stupid Americans wanted more powah. Only the 2.0 in the ND2 was designed to be in the Miata from the ground up.
The ND1 engine is objectively and subjectively inferior to the 2.0 and existed only because they ran out of money to spend on the 2.0, which they rectified on the ND2, what is difficult to understand about that?
Is the ND1 better than its predecessor, yes, is it great value, absolutely
does it deserve to be praised over the ND2, no, there is a reason why it gets less love, it was an unfinished product, luckily the used price reflects it
I used versatuner and enjoy it but it makes the throttle very twitchy but I like the subtle burbles and pops cuz I’m a child deep down. Extra 10-15hp is noticeable as well
Not that I know of, even if it was the case you want the ND2 for the more reliable transmission. Biggest benefit to the ND1 is the single mass flywheel but again not worth forgoing the ND2.
Show me where I claimed the ND2 is better because it has more power
The 2.0 ND2/3 is better because the powertrain is fizzier, revvs higher, feels more charismatic. It doesn't feel like the engine of a bloody economy shitbox Mazda 3 if that helps you get it. The additional power is a side effect but completely irrelevant
There is zero advantage to go for an 2.0 ND1 over an 2.0 ND2/3. In fact one is clearly worse than the other, so why should the worse one get any love - especially when even the lighter less hp/torque 1.5 ND1 is also much better feeling than the 2.0 ND1?
You either buy a 1.5 ND1/2/3 or a 2.0 ND2/3, the 2.0 ND1 is just disappointing in comparison. The only ones who claim otherwise are those who own one.
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I’ve owned multiple NDs and this is spot on. The ND1 is a value play but it is a worse car in every single measure unless you really prefer the single mass flywheel and ability to easily switch between E85 and 93.
If those do not matter to you, buy an ND2. It’s really frustrating to see people regurgitate “oh, it’s only different above 6k rpm”
No, it isn’t! All the fucking shit they did internally makes for a smoother, better feeling engine. It’s hard to describe but the ND2 just feels BETTER.
Is it though? Peak torque numbers are the same but the ND2 revs a bit higher. 0-60 numbers are the same. You can ECU tune an ND1 to give it the higher redline and I’m going to guess you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
Its not just a tuning change from Mazda for the ND2. There were a lot of actual hardware component changes and nearly the whole top end of the motor was tweaked in one way or another.
There’s no way the 0-60 is the same. I’ve owned multiple ND2s and currently have an ND1 I picked up off marketplace for cheap. It feels way slower everywhere.
Besides all the reasons already mentioned in this thread in favor of the ND2, the ND1 had some pretty gnarly transmission issues that make it a questionable buy. If you can get one that's been confirmed to have it fixed, then sure that's a bargain.
The ND transmission issues aren't exclusive to the ND1. Every revision of the car is susceptible to failure. This has been widely discussed and documented.
To be honest, they still haven't fixed the transmission issues, there's a whole separate forum section dedicated to just ND transmission issues on miata.net
Which sucks, because I'd really like to buy one second hand, however it's a coin toss whether you'll grenade your transmission or not and I have very bad luck when it comes to cars :D.
The (questionable) theory I've heard about this is that they fixed it in the ND2, but went back to using worse parts bc of supply chain issues after the pandemic so supposedly, the 2019 and 2020 models are the perfect transmission Miatas.
I gotta be honest, on my short test drives several months/years apart, I was not really able to tell apart the ND1 from the ND2. I'm sure it's noticeable driving them back to back or if you're super seasoned with driving cars like that, but for normal people getting a miata I don't think it's as big of a difference as people make it out to be.
Especially for people getting miatas as their first real sports cars after driving Rav 4s and altimas their whole life, which I think is often the case for miata buyers
the difference between the two is mainly above ~5000 RPM, below that they both make about the same power (ND1 makes slightly more below 2000 RPM if I recall correctly). With the ND1 if you try to wind it out like that, from the sound and feel you'd think you're just about to hit the real fun bit of the rev range but instead it just stops. With the ND2 that fun bit is actually there
It felt similar to the difference between the LS6 and LS1 to me, except more of a sound difference. Happy to rev, always begging for you to zing the tach one more time.
I love my ND1 because it's been fully paid off for 5+ years, it's now 9 years old and has ~83k miles and is still running great. Car still feels fast to me, especially compared to my old NA's. And it has been averaging 34.5 MPG over the 9 years of ownership.
A few small issues I've had over the years:
AC system lost refrigerant this year. Notorious crack in charge pipe was not present. Dealer and another shop could not identify leak location. After recharging it twice, leak seems to have stopped - guessing it was a dried out seal from not using the AC all winter and it rejuvenated itself after more usage.
Crack in coolant hard line in engine bay. Pretty minor, didn't notice it until car started overheating at idle. Cheap fix.
Both front brake calipers seized/got too shitty/corroded about 7 years into ownership, needed to have them both replaced. I drive car year-round in New England so it gets salted up in the winter.
OEM front subframe braces rusted pretty badly, I just replaced them a few weeks ago with Goodwin Racing version which are way thicker/stronger.
Yep. Everyone harping about ND2 obviously being better because of an engine rework. Okay. So what if the ND1 didn’t exist? What if the ND2 didn’t exist? Is the ND2 so much better that we should pretend the ND1 didn’t practically SAVE the Miata for North America? Aren’t we all supposed to be dogging on the NC1/2 Miata??
Why are we complaining about the same lightweight RWD MANUAL sports cars we beg manufacturers for?? I’m sure the ND2 has a better engine & thus more enjoyable driving experience; but does this mean everyone needs to act like the ND1 is trash instead?
The ND1s are actually pretty cheap nowadays for what they are so I’d that alone makes them looking for, plus it’s still the same design and nearly identical drive to the later ND2/3 so I can’t see how there’s anything to hate.
I knowww! I have a 2016 with 65k mi and it's been great! The ND2 was an improvement, and for the same money, I'd take it, but running around on curvy roads it makes no difference. In fact, I get to shift more!
The Miata is low-key a dream car for me. I just never find myself in the right position to buy one. In every racing game Ive played since I was a kid, I have bought a Miata in it at some point and I remember each of them.
I almost bought one when I bought my STi, but I already ride motorcycles, and the Miata has all the practicality of a motorcycle, it was fun to drive, but I just don't know when I'd drive it when I wouldn't rather be on the bike.
The best thing the ND did was give proof that lightweight cars are possible in the modern market. So many enthusiasts and journalist just kept parroting the lazy "well cars just HAVE to get bigger and heavier because of regulations and safety." It was always bullshit but people just went along with it for whatever reason.
what is with this subreddit. possible doesn't mean the best course of action. the miata exists because its competitors have dwindled down and because of its legacy.
nobody else looking for compact or mid-sized sedans for everyday use really wants it to be smaller and less practical. cars are getting bigger because people want bigger cars. for space, for the ride height, for the feeling of having a big car. nothing complex about that
We aren't talking about sedans and SUV's, we are talking about a sports car. Those desires and demands should be completely irrelevant when talking about a sports car.
Thankfully no. But the Miata and twins are the rare exception. The 911 is the shining example of how bloated cars have become and how people are wanting their sports cars to do things they shouldn't.
lurpeli@reddit
There's a lot I love about the ND2, what I want to be changed...
beeslax@reddit
My 23’ ND2 has a touch screen. I still use the dial though.
IsTheShibaInU@reddit
Fuck. That.
The gauge clusters are gorgeous, focused, and timeless - exactly what I want in a sports car.
It's so disappointing to get in a modern BMW and see that it has the same cluster / IID layout as a Hyundai. Likewise, take a look at Aston's clusters now and compare them to the VH-era cars that beautiful watch-like dials and gauges. It's incomparable and just another example of enshittification.
darienswag420@reddit
I had a rental the past week and it felt cumbersome to use a touchscreen for infotainment. Also, it seemed a bit more unsafe to use the touchscreen since it "grabbed" my attention more than just using the dial.
On my ND2, I've never felt that I was losing anything using the dial.
lurpeli@reddit
Why not both though, zero reason not to make both an option
comfyrain@reddit
It's pretty easy to exploit the software in the nd2 and make it a touchscreen while driving.
FragrantGas9@reddit
The gear shift indicator is pretty useless but it's a regulation in EU to improve MPG / reduce emissions for manual transmission cars, so that's why they included it.
It's pretty dumb when it wants you to hold 6th gear going up a steep uphill at 35 MPH practically lugging the engine.
lurpeli@reddit
I just find the whole cluster to be a waste of space, replace it with a fully digital cluster and it would be a huge improvement.
FragrantGas9@reddit
Idk there’s something to be enjoyed about a physical tachometer and speedometer. Maybe I’m just an old-head but I’m not driving the Miata for the tech, having those as physical components is endearing.
TFiPW@reddit
ND2 is as close to perfect. They managed to increase power and redline, while keeping the emissions compliant.
The ND2/3 is the closest to a brand new S2000.
india2wallst@reddit
One of the bigger car review channel said that most modern enthusiasts would balk at the S2000 when they actually drive it. I never drove one but think I'm spoiled by the immediate punch from turbo charged engines.
magshell-alpha@reddit
I had never liked or been interested in a Miata, until I drove one. It's very addictive.
Da_Funk@reddit
I never ever considered one until I drove an ND2 Club BBR and now I'm pining after one. At 6'2" I was thrilled I fit in it comfortably.
imped4now@reddit
This is such a thing.
Nefilim314@reddit
Never any love for the ND1. Ungrateful little shits.
BenzinaPorkChop@reddit (OP)
The 2-liter ND1 is inferior to the 2-liter ND2 in every way. Why should we glorify an unfinished product that only existed to appease American buyers, when the later version does the same thing - only better?
Nefilim314@reddit
The ND1 is the only car I can think of that actually weighs less than its predecessor.
The engineers had to decide where to devote their resources. They could have spent time producing more power or they could have shaved weight. They decided to shave weight, and the result is the foundation of the current Miata.
This is proof that the designers of the car understood its purpose. No one buys a Miata to win drag races. They buy it for lightness, which the ND1 absolutely delivered.
You sound like all the other keyboard warriors in car forums who act like a nominal boost in power completely transformed the experience. The Miata experience is lightness, not its engine.
imped4now@reddit
So much of this is untrue. Such a weird comment.
Nefilim314@reddit
Correct. During an interview with Yamamoto I believe, he stated that they did not have the budget initially to spend as much time and resources on the engine and instead was focused on the gram strategy. He stated that he had wanted to make the ND2 engine, but even given the Fiat partnership, they lacked resources.
My point is that if he had gone with building the engine instead of the gram strategy, we would just have a heavier ND just like every other car is getting heavier.
BenzinaPorkChop@reddit (OP)
Do stop waffling about things you clearly know no nothing about. It was nothing to do with weight. The ND1 was designed around the 1.5-litre engine. The 2.0 ND1 only existed because, as always, stupid Americans wanted more powah. Only the 2.0 in the ND2 was designed to be in the Miata from the ground up.
Nefilim314@reddit
Waffling?
You say the ND2 is superior because it has more power, but the ND1 2.0 shouldn't exist because Americans are stupid for wanting more power?
You are crying the tears of a clown here.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
The ND1 engine is objectively and subjectively inferior to the 2.0 and existed only because they ran out of money to spend on the 2.0, which they rectified on the ND2, what is difficult to understand about that?
Is the ND1 better than its predecessor, yes, is it great value, absolutely
does it deserve to be praised over the ND2, no, there is a reason why it gets less love, it was an unfinished product, luckily the used price reflects it
zerosystem03@reddit
This is like the miata forums all over again. ND1 owners always arguing with nd2/nd3 owners
CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit
Wasn't there a case where ND1 head or internals were more suited for boost, or am I misremembering?
EntroperZero@reddit
Possibly you're remembering that the ND1 ECU is more hackable?
swampfox94@reddit
Nd2 ecu is fully unlocked too. I’ve tuned my nd2 with no issues
EntroperZero@reddit
Ah, finally. I was following for a few years, one company gave up on unlocking it, I stopped following.
swampfox94@reddit
I used versatuner and enjoy it but it makes the throttle very twitchy but I like the subtle burbles and pops cuz I’m a child deep down. Extra 10-15hp is noticeable as well
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Not that I know of, even if it was the case you want the ND2 for the more reliable transmission. Biggest benefit to the ND1 is the single mass flywheel but again not worth forgoing the ND2.
CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit
Ah okay, maybe it was the other way around that people swapped ND2 heads to ND1 when going boosted. Sorry for the confusion!
BenzinaPorkChop@reddit (OP)
Show me where I claimed the ND2 is better because it has more power
The 2.0 ND2/3 is better because the powertrain is fizzier, revvs higher, feels more charismatic. It doesn't feel like the engine of a bloody economy shitbox Mazda 3 if that helps you get it. The additional power is a side effect but completely irrelevant
There is zero advantage to go for an 2.0 ND1 over an 2.0 ND2/3. In fact one is clearly worse than the other, so why should the worse one get any love - especially when even the lighter less hp/torque 1.5 ND1 is also much better feeling than the 2.0 ND1?
You either buy a 1.5 ND1/2/3 or a 2.0 ND2/3, the 2.0 ND1 is just disappointing in comparison. The only ones who claim otherwise are those who own one.
BenzinaPorkChop@reddit (OP)
Show me where I claimed the ND2 is better because it has more power you fucking muppet.
It is better because the powertrain is fizzier, revvs higher, feels more charismatic. The additional power is a side effect but completely irrelevant
cars-ModTeam@reddit
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737northfield@reddit
I’ve owned multiple NDs and this is spot on. The ND1 is a value play but it is a worse car in every single measure unless you really prefer the single mass flywheel and ability to easily switch between E85 and 93.
If those do not matter to you, buy an ND2. It’s really frustrating to see people regurgitate “oh, it’s only different above 6k rpm”
No, it isn’t! All the fucking shit they did internally makes for a smoother, better feeling engine. It’s hard to describe but the ND2 just feels BETTER.
Ren4ultMOdus@reddit
Downvoted because people refuse to accept the truth lol
737northfield@reddit
This isn’t what happened at all lmfao. Weird fake narrative. The 2.0L was a last minute decision for the ND platform and was very, very half baked.
420bIaze@reddit
Most reviews said the 2L ND1 was a little better than the 1.5L (which was specifically developed for the Mx5).
The ND1 2L is still a great car, even if the subsequent revisions are even better.
neodymiumex@reddit
Is it though? Peak torque numbers are the same but the ND2 revs a bit higher. 0-60 numbers are the same. You can ECU tune an ND1 to give it the higher redline and I’m going to guess you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
italia06823834@reddit
Its not just a tuning change from Mazda for the ND2. There were a lot of actual hardware component changes and nearly the whole top end of the motor was tweaked in one way or another.
737northfield@reddit
There’s no way the 0-60 is the same. I’ve owned multiple ND2s and currently have an ND1 I picked up off marketplace for cheap. It feels way slower everywhere.
neodymiumex@reddit
Google says 5.7 seconds to 60 for both. Below 6k rpm there’s basically no difference between the engines.
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155439628156631&id=10155439629446631
737northfield@reddit
Go watch the video under the Fab9 product page for the ND1 tune. The ND2 SMOKES the ND1 from a dig.
I don’t need articles or links. I’ve owned like three NDs and have probably put close to 80k miles on the platform. The ND2 is a big difference IRL.
Funny_things_online@reddit
This is a ND3 actually since it has the LEDs.
kaelis7@reddit
Yup facts, the ND 1.5L aren’t too different between ND1 and 2 on the other hand.
LeifEriksonASDF@reddit
Besides all the reasons already mentioned in this thread in favor of the ND2, the ND1 had some pretty gnarly transmission issues that make it a questionable buy. If you can get one that's been confirmed to have it fixed, then sure that's a bargain.
imped4now@reddit
The ND transmission issues aren't exclusive to the ND1. Every revision of the car is susceptible to failure. This has been widely discussed and documented.
CantThinkOfAnyName@reddit
To be honest, they still haven't fixed the transmission issues, there's a whole separate forum section dedicated to just ND transmission issues on miata.net
Which sucks, because I'd really like to buy one second hand, however it's a coin toss whether you'll grenade your transmission or not and I have very bad luck when it comes to cars :D.
Vorcia@reddit
The (questionable) theory I've heard about this is that they fixed it in the ND2, but went back to using worse parts bc of supply chain issues after the pandemic so supposedly, the 2019 and 2020 models are the perfect transmission Miatas.
Cyndagon@reddit
Yea, I have a 22 and my synchros decided to off themselves. New transmission under warranty though. Two years, daily driving later no issues.
accountforrealppl@reddit
I gotta be honest, on my short test drives several months/years apart, I was not really able to tell apart the ND1 from the ND2. I'm sure it's noticeable driving them back to back or if you're super seasoned with driving cars like that, but for normal people getting a miata I don't think it's as big of a difference as people make it out to be.
Especially for people getting miatas as their first real sports cars after driving Rav 4s and altimas their whole life, which I think is often the case for miata buyers
fiah84@reddit
the difference between the two is mainly above ~5000 RPM, below that they both make about the same power (ND1 makes slightly more below 2000 RPM if I recall correctly). With the ND1 if you try to wind it out like that, from the sound and feel you'd think you're just about to hit the real fun bit of the rev range but instead it just stops. With the ND2 that fun bit is actually there
YCheez@reddit
With the ND2 you get that slight change in pitch as you cross over 7k, its addictive
Standard-Potential-6@reddit
It felt similar to the difference between the LS6 and LS1 to me, except more of a sound difference. Happy to rev, always begging for you to zing the tach one more time.
YCheez@reddit
The rear camera being standard is also very important, its crucial for the RF due to the buttresses cutting off your rear vision.
ND2 also has the V5 gearbox which is the most reliable, but I've seen reports of it still having some issues.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
The 1.5L version of the ND1 do this too.
TFiPW@reddit
Fiata gets even less love than the ND1
FragrantGas9@reddit
I love my ND1 because it's been fully paid off for 5+ years, it's now 9 years old and has ~83k miles and is still running great. Car still feels fast to me, especially compared to my old NA's. And it has been averaging 34.5 MPG over the 9 years of ownership.
A few small issues I've had over the years:
AC system lost refrigerant this year. Notorious crack in charge pipe was not present. Dealer and another shop could not identify leak location. After recharging it twice, leak seems to have stopped - guessing it was a dried out seal from not using the AC all winter and it rejuvenated itself after more usage.
Crack in coolant hard line in engine bay. Pretty minor, didn't notice it until car started overheating at idle. Cheap fix.
Both front brake calipers seized/got too shitty/corroded about 7 years into ownership, needed to have them both replaced. I drive car year-round in New England so it gets salted up in the winter.
OEM front subframe braces rusted pretty badly, I just replaced them a few weeks ago with Goodwin Racing version which are way thicker/stronger.
SnootDoctor@reddit
Yep. Everyone harping about ND2 obviously being better because of an engine rework. Okay. So what if the ND1 didn’t exist? What if the ND2 didn’t exist? Is the ND2 so much better that we should pretend the ND1 didn’t practically SAVE the Miata for North America? Aren’t we all supposed to be dogging on the NC1/2 Miata??
Why are we complaining about the same lightweight RWD MANUAL sports cars we beg manufacturers for?? I’m sure the ND2 has a better engine & thus more enjoyable driving experience; but does this mean everyone needs to act like the ND1 is trash instead?
Halofieldfan@reddit
The ND1s are actually pretty cheap nowadays for what they are so I’d that alone makes them looking for, plus it’s still the same design and nearly identical drive to the later ND2/3 so I can’t see how there’s anything to hate.
joe2105@reddit
I knowww! I have a 2016 with 65k mi and it's been great! The ND2 was an improvement, and for the same money, I'd take it, but running around on curvy roads it makes no difference. In fact, I get to shift more!
RiftHunter4@reddit
The Miata is low-key a dream car for me. I just never find myself in the right position to buy one. In every racing game Ive played since I was a kid, I have bought a Miata in it at some point and I remember each of them.
The_Strom784@reddit
They're great little cars but I don't fit in them. I'll have to be happy with a GR-86.
lurpeli@reddit
I did not enjoy my GR86 nearly as much. The engine sounds so shitty in the GR86.
optitmus@reddit
86 engine with unequal length headers > miata sound
NotRote@reddit
I almost bought one when I bought my STi, but I already ride motorcycles, and the Miata has all the practicality of a motorcycle, it was fun to drive, but I just don't know when I'd drive it when I wouldn't rather be on the bike.
WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit
The best thing the ND did was give proof that lightweight cars are possible in the modern market. So many enthusiasts and journalist just kept parroting the lazy "well cars just HAVE to get bigger and heavier because of regulations and safety." It was always bullshit but people just went along with it for whatever reason.
teggyteggy@reddit
what is with this subreddit. possible doesn't mean the best course of action. the miata exists because its competitors have dwindled down and because of its legacy.
nobody else looking for compact or mid-sized sedans for everyday use really wants it to be smaller and less practical. cars are getting bigger because people want bigger cars. for space, for the ride height, for the feeling of having a big car. nothing complex about that
WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit
We aren't talking about sedans and SUV's, we are talking about a sports car. Those desires and demands should be completely irrelevant when talking about a sports car.
teggyteggy@reddit
are the GR86/BRZ getting bigger or heavier?
WendysChiliAndPepsi@reddit
Thankfully no. But the Miata and twins are the rare exception. The 911 is the shining example of how bloated cars have become and how people are wanting their sports cars to do things they shouldn't.
teggyteggy@reddit
i don't think you can really compare the price ranges
not_right@reddit
What a great article. Thanks OP.
wanakoworks@reddit
I have a '25 MX-5 RF and it's such a special little car. I love mine and it's the type of car I've always wanted.
whyborg@reddit
Meanwhile me in Turkey
schultzM@reddit
Chop the top off some normie car
This_Elk_1460@reddit
Not when dealerships marked them up to 40 Grand
HaruMistborn@reddit
Miatas are not being marked up lmao, they're everywhere.
swampfox94@reddit
They go for a couple grand under sticker. These aren’t rare cars