Why did Romans recruit so many Emperors and soldiers from the Western Balkans, in particular the Roman province of Illyria?
Posted by Chance-Struggle-6285@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 77 comments
Been watching a video of Ranked Roman Provinces, and out of all of them Illyria ranked first due to it being a recruitment ground for soldiers, but also the amount of Emperors that originate from that region. What is it about Balkan people that made Rome, or even Ottomans recruit a bunch of soldiers from (Devşirme system)?
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
They had cute butts.
rydolf_shabe@reddit
only truly right answer
rintzscar@reddit
These were Romans, not Illyrians. By the time the "Illyrian" emperors lived, the entire population was literally Roman. There's nothing Illyrian about them at all. They weren't called Illyrian emperors at the time. Historians coined the term a thousand years later.
These were just Romans. They simply lived in what is now the Western Balkans.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Standard Slavic propaganda.
rintzscar@reddit
That's what's studied in the entire world.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
No respectable college or university would allow a professor to spew such garbage
But, It’s standard operating procedure for Slavic countries to Perpetuate the erasure of the Illyrian/albanian continuum
1000Zasto1000Zato@reddit
Albanians were just one of many Illyrian tribes. Other tribes were absorbed into their respective Slavic nations. Same thing how many Slavs were absorbed into Albanian nation
rintzscar@reddit
Mate, I don't know what fantasy land you live in, but that's what's studied in the entire world, including in Albanian universities.
Literally just ask ChatGPT about it, it's fed the consensus, it will explain it to you - the "Illyrian emperors" are just Romans. They have nothing to do with Illyrians or Albanians.
I'm not erasing anything. Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians. You simply misunderstand what "Illyrian emperors" mean. They're not Illyrians. They never were. Even your professors don't claim they are. You're just uneducated.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Ladies and gentlemen of Reddit, here is a Slavic bot who was perpetuating misinformation
rintzscar@reddit
Sorry the truth hurts your ultranationalism. I'm glad Albanian professors are not as brainwashed as you are, and instead teach real history.
Here's the ALBANIAN WIKIPEDIA saying the exact same thing I am saying IN ALBANIAN:
https://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perandor%C3%ABt_ilir%C3%AB
Ultranationalists like you who lie through your teeth should be immediately banned from this sub.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
I like history. I read many excempts from many books trying to find answers. At some point i have even doubted the illyrian lineage of albanians, because illyrians that we were taught or hyped in our school were connected to the sea, while us, albanians, have no sea culinary, our folk legends are not about the sea etc so i started asuming we could be some kind of Dacians or even Thraceans who were pushed by incursions of goths, huns and slavs when rome fell. I remember listening to an italian scholar on youtube but i can't find it anymore, and his arguements seemed valid.
Anyway, it was not my intention to drift debate over this. Just that i also had the impression or belief that ethnic origins of Roman had shifted toward other peoples that they invaded. That is all.
Tomorr3@reddit
But we do have our own native maritime terms. For example: det for sea
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
This is typical Greek garbage. All genetic links show clear continuation of the the Illyrian / Albanians connection
To further your stupidity let’s say this, what is the Greek work for blue? There isn’t one, doesn’t that mean Greeks loved underground? No it doesn’t, but by your lazy intellectualism it would.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Come on man, what do greeks even have to do with what i just said.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Your logic. Do you understand how the language developed from Proto-Albanian ?
I have heard that argument over and over again countless times spewed by high school kids.
The evidence is overwhelming that no one doubts that Illyrian/Epirate are the predecessors of Albanians.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
No one objects the fact that Albanians come from the indigenous people of Balkans prior to Slavic settling here. Our language is enough proof that we have been under Roman empire since the begining.
My question would be "where" exactly. And i don't care about chauvinist theories. Ancient history has no effect on us. I were curious.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Where? As in where the language developed? Approx where Kosovo is today. Established by approx 100 years prior to Greek and by approx 50 individuals.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Yes, that is a plausible theory, because we have some common words with Romanians.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
2 theories with Romanians were split 1. When the Yamana arrived causing a rift - Proto-Romanian derived during this time - Reich 2. When Roman Empire arrived splitting the both cultures that shared common stock - then Romanians developed their language but Slavicised it in the last few hundred years under the guidance of the Orthodox Church - Hemp
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Ok, i might look it up.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Also this has been established with a tremendous amount of genetic research. Although there is always an importance to dog further.
Tomorr3@reddit
You also seem weirdly obsessed with this, don't you think?
The Wikipedia article doesn't say what you are stating. Why are you lying?
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Says the bot
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Believe me, I’m not upset or anything you say does that hurt me.
I have come to live with such stupidity.
rintzscar@reddit
Yeah, enjoy the report and I hope the mods ban you for your absurd lies.
35BCx1405AD@reddit
What do you mean.
We never fully assimilated my man.
rintzscar@reddit
I am saying the people referred to as "Illyrian emperors" are not Illyrian by ethnicity. They're Roman. They did not speak Illyrian, they did not follow Illyrian traditions, they did not believe in Illyrian gods. They have absolutely nothing to do with the ancient Illyrians except being born in the same general area.
The actual descendants of the Illyrians by that time were small tribes confined to the mountains of Albania. They have nothing to do with the Roman Empire. You're descended from them, not from the Romans.
35BCx1405AD@reddit
Illyrian emperors by Illyrian ethnicity not just birthplace. All sources from wiki
Constantius Chlorus- Constantius was an Illyrian
Quintillus- Illyrian (
Aurelian- Illyrian ( most likely)
Diocletian- Illyrian ( most likely)
Maximian- Illyrian wiki
Constantius Chlorus- Illyrian
Constantine the Great - Illyrian
Constantius II- Illyrian
Gratianus Funarius- Illyrian soldier founder of the vanentinian dynasty
Valentinian I- Illyrian-Roman ( but in our culture dad only matters.)
Valens- Illyrian
Valentinian II- son of Valentinian the first ( Illyrian- Roman)
Constantius III- Illyrian
Valentinian III - son of Constantius III (Illyrian father)
Anastasius I Dicorus- Illyrian Roman
As for us HAVING NONCONNECTION BECAUSE WE ARE MOUNTAIN GYPSIES AND SMELLY TURKS FOR IRAQ WHO ARE MUSLIM TERRILIST ON NONCONNECTION STILID ALBANIAN POOPYHEAD
cope
rintzscar@reddit
You need to take your lorazepam, mate.
35BCx1405AD@reddit
You chetniks for 100 years said we are from Afghanistan and turkey.
Words my own grandfathers and parents have heard
And now with all the linguistic and genetic testing done
You have the balls to say “yes you are Illyrian descent partially but nothing to do with Rome”.
And you tell me to take medication.
When a pig snorts it’s a pig isn’t Chetnik.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
This is funny as you really believe the whole Slavic/Orthodox crowd will kind of gangbang you. Yes, we appreciate having similar languages and religion and stuff, what you can't imagine is that is an even greater reason to hate each other. Most of the times our Slavic/Orthodox brothers shit on something, we wouldn't really team with them on that. It is crazy that you even thing about it. Like we didn't really support the Serbs in their Yugo wars, those weren't our our war really.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
What I think really is you were a Roman province then. So those guys (and we had Roman emperors born in the geographical area that is todays Bulgaria too) were for all practical purposes Romans. They spoke Roman, they considered themselves Roman and stuff. I wouldn't call those Bulgarians or Albanians or whatever. In any case, I think you'd rather restore any Roman artifacts from that era if any, that would really have more effect than arguing about which Roman province which emperor came from. That's just my personal opinion though,
35BCx1405AD@reddit
No, we really don’t give a shit about the Bulgarians to be quite honest. That’s why I was a little annoyed for a Bulgarian guy to go ahead and start wrongly dictating our history.
I I honestly called him a chetnik because we dont really have a word for you guys.
Tell me bulgar what slur should I call you 😂😂😂.
However, the point still stands. You guys wanna go ahead and be self-conscious about our illyrian connection and start telling us that we have no connection to them at all except as mountain peasants. I’ll call you a student of Yugoslav Chetnikism.
deviendrais@reddit
Calling a Bulgarian a “chetnik” is the funniest shit I’ve seen on reddit in months. I’ll pray that the mods don’t lock this post
35BCx1405AD@reddit
Any slav or whatever that is anti Albanian is a Chetnik
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Sure as hell nobody here would ever identify as chetnik. Like it would be real wtf :)
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
I am aware that you called Komita your irregular units against Ottomans, but Ceta was also a common word.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Yes, but I particularly refer to Serbian chetniks, I don't think they were ever liked here back tin the times. Dunno if they disliked Albanians, I don't think we ever had any specific attitude towards Albanians even, but IMO chetniks weren't very much liked here, just like Serbs didn't quite like our VMRO komitas or something.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Our national clubs in Sophia were active, i think as our press was there for publications, and i read in an article that our cetas collaborated with bulgarian komitas at isolated events.
With Serbia is another story of course.
I was just mentioning the origin of the word. The initial meaning is revolitionary.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Maybe. Like I am not a nationalist and I consider VMRO a terrorist nationalist right-wing organization that did a lot of trouble in Bulgaria too at the time. They collaborated with the Croat Ustase a lot for example. But it is all in the past. It is very, very ,very weird to call a modern Bulgarian "chetnik", kinda surreal I think. No Bulgarian would identify with this and that would hold the same in the days Chetniks existed.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
No, i meant prior to indipendence in 1912. Probably 1899-1911.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
Nah, that was a period of history that we hated the Serbs a lot, due to their attempt to invade us in 1885. I don't think our 19th century nationalism was ever synchronized except for a very brief period in the first Balkan war and that was very short lived.
deviendrais@reddit
Noted. Next time I see a Muslim from Sandžak talk shit about Albanians again I’ll just let him know that he’s a chetnik
35BCx1405AD@reddit
Wow a serb twisting words !!!!
This is the first time this has ever happened !!!!
So glad to be part of it !!!
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Chill mate. Plus, even us used to have Ceta or Komita.
rintzscar@reddit
Take your lorazepam, mate. Maybe add clozapine.
Tomorr3@reddit
No, on the contrary. They were Roman citizens of Illyrian ethnicity/ancestry.
They were not replaced by romans. They were just assimilated. So stop making false claims.
theastrolux@reddit
“There's nothing Illyrian about them at all.” Only that they were born grew up and lived in those territories. There was 17 or 18 Roman Emperors just from what is nowadays Serbia. I guess it’s something in the water in those areas, the warrior water haha (:
rintzscar@reddit
Correct, that's literally the only thing that connects them to the name "Illyria" - their Roman ancestors moved there, mostly as soldiers, so they were born there. They have nothing to do with Illyria. They're as Roman as the Romans in Rome.
Even less to do with Serbia. No clue why you would even mention it.
theastrolux@reddit
I can tell you as astrologer that it is NOT the same being born in Serbia for example or Rome or wherever, ppl are differently charged being born here or there, and have different characteristics and temperament, different strength points where they excel. It doesn’t matter what nationality you are but where you are born. If your family comes Rome were born in Rome, but you are born in tha latitude and longitude of where Illyria was that is nowadays Serbia well you will be charged with those latititude/longtitude frequency.
rintzscar@reddit
That sentence is "I can tell you as a person with IQ lower than 0...".
Jesus effin Christ, what's happened to education in the Balkans...
theastrolux@reddit
This sentence you made and comments reveals you as zero IQ. You are welcome.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
You wrote "Roman" so many times as if you can't even convice yourself 🤣
rintzscar@reddit
I don't need to convince myself. What I am saying is the simple truth. Stop spreading falsified history.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
My apologies fellow Roman 🙏
rintzscar@reddit
I have nothing to do with the Roman Empire. And so do you.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Just being ironic. No disrespect, really 👋
FunKooky4689@reddit
You came here to force your BS nationalistic agenda that is considered a fringe theory by every scientist and when people call you out all you can say is “🤣😜😂😆😝”. Gtfu bro. This is r/AskBalkans not r/Albania
MrChoos@reddit
Let the Albanian larp.
georgakop_athanas@reddit
You might get a better answer on /r/AskHistorians , from a professional historian.
deviendrais@reddit
No they should continue asking such questions here for our entertainment. The comments are delicious
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Coming from these 2. Laughable.
deviendrais@reddit
What 2
BalkanViking007@reddit
Diocletian
Eastern_Click_4361@reddit
To which century are you alluding to?
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
3rd-4rd century, when rome was nose diving
Eastern_Click_4361@reddit
It's because the other provinces were rebelling away from Rome and Illyria was still loyal. Also keep in mind that the Danube frontier had large army contingents and the generals from there had a very easy time being proclaimed emperors. So it was kinda natural.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Biggest trouble for Rome was Bato's uprising. It was in 7-9 ad if not mistaken. That is when they felt water in their shoes and probably increased their presence contnously.
..i have read here and there, and Rome had a big problem with all tribes north of danube. They managed to contain them, but it was not the military weakeness coukd not stop the pass the river. It was corruption 😂
Eastern_Click_4361@reddit
Bato's revolt was during Augustus' reign. It was one of the few occasions Illyria rebelled. In the following centuries, it was at the receiving end of invasion from Goths and Huns and got quite devastated. During the 4th and 5th centuries, the barbarians started playing kingmakers and started putting puppets on the throne. This was visible during the times Ricimer and Odoacer and it was the point of no return. The emperors started using these tribes as well to play other contenders against each other and other tribes against each other. So normally, it was politics and money at play.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
I actually meant even lower form of corruption. Local tribes paid the Roman post to let them pass. Then, through out time, it became much eaiser for goths and visigoths to pour in and feel like home. This was before the huns and slavs.
Also, inflation 101. Romans started minting forged silver and such. Everyone knew this of course and the value of currency dropped.
Eastern_Click_4361@reddit
It was pretty impossible to bribe a Roman official to allow the tribes to pass as this would raise alarms in Rome. Usually the 'allowing in' 'stimulant' was an invasion and a series of defeats of the legions. There was a lot of corruption, to the point that the romans preferred joining the tribes instead of being taxed to death by corrupt officials. Over time, the tribes constituted a part of the Roman army - some loyal, some treacherous. The Romans debased their coins and added copper and bronze.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Anyway, it has been year i read about such events. I just had narroed these two main reasons that Rome nose dived, that i thought were as important as constant atacks from the expanding borders.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
It’s referred to as the revolt of the2 Batos that deterred / delayed Romes early advancements against the Germanic tribes.
Unfair-Frame9096@reddit
Most of those emperors are during the Eastern Roman Empire period.
livefromnewyorkcity@reddit
Constantine, the great, the albanian born in Illyrian His quote
§ 4.1.15 I must, however, begin with the homeland of the emperor, which in every other respect must rank first of all places, and with this I must begin my present account. 16 For it is only to this country that it is granted to rejoice, to revel in pride, and to enjoy the solemn dignity of having produced and presented to the Romans an emperor whose works cannot be expressed in words or recorded in writing.
17 Among the Dardanians of Europe, who live beyond the borders of the Epidamnians, there was, near the fortress called Bederiana, a hamlet called Taurisium, from which came the emperor Justinian, the founder of the civilized world.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Pure geography i think, but if they did not wish to be overrun by barbarians, they had to hold there. If Illyricum fell, Rome was next.
Barrack emperors were also known as Illyrian emperors and was a period during which Rome had shitty emperors, but in the begining they were Praeretoreans who favored one heir they viewed fit over another heir and they killed many until actual soldiers started to become emperors.
Preretorean Guard were mostly recruited from this region because they were trusted probably. They were not Romans who would be involved in power strifes. I don't recall much the factors from book i read.
I think this was a period of tetrarchy also, a period during which many emperors co-ruled the empire.
Ottomans is another story. Basicly they took soldiers from everywhere to fight everywhere. In a way, Ottomans functioned like the Romans. But, unlike Romans, Ottomans were not as fond to new tech, so they remained backward. It is impressive how they ruled for so long, really. In the very begining Seljuks were a formidable force of cavalry. Later on when they settled, they put strength in numbers by recruiting locals i guess.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
I said shitty emperors before the Illyrian emperor period. Diocletean managed to restore some glory for instance.