The fact that my comment wasn't downvoted per your expectationis literal proof that people don't cry over race. Meanwhile you, on the contrary, commented the same thing twice.
Not bragging it's just a fact of life. Race has always been a pretty important topic here. And I'd feel comfortable to assume most feel That whites are the highest on the worthiness spectrum and the darker one is the lower they would be. I would say take a moment to read more comments on this particular post you'll find quite a few in agreement. I don't hate the others in fact I have nothing against them. But statistics don't lie.
I would say just a different way of thinking then you might be use too. It's why I asked if you were new here but if you're not then might I ask if you're a leftist/liberal?
Work with a Ukrainian fella who’s a refugee. Awesome guy hard worker and several steps below what he did for a job in Ukraine but he’s insanely happy to be here and teach the younger guys.
Muh nazis not allowing people with no skills and who are well known to not assimilate well into their countries how evil! Lets instead completly open the borders let everyone in and turn our cities into those like Mumbai all in the name of not being called a nazi on the internet.
Xenophobia and racism exist outside of nazism too. I hate when people throw around words like fascist or nazi while they have 0 idea what they even mean, they just saw something they consider bad and it instantly must be a nazi or a fascist.
Why do they have to be hard working white people with a Christian culture?
I mean compare how people from middle east, Pakistan and africa integrate compared to for example ukrainians.
I’m assuming you’re implying they commit more crimes, is that even true? I’m not so sure.
Sure man you can just plainly ignore the rape gangs and so on you do you man, maybe you think its a good thing, all in the name if respecting minorities and not being racist right?
And even if it were, do you think that’s because of their skin color?
They come from vastly different cultures to ours. And the skin color is only relevant in that majority of white people a common culture based on christianity, while north africa, middle east and the indian subcintinent where the majority of these migrants come from are pretty islamic/hindu so already vastly different religious and societal norms. Then there is the fact that those societies are way more fundamentalistic compared to secular Europe. There is also the general backwardness of those regions too.
You don’t know what you’re saying. The western world is barreling towards nazism and they’re coming out of the woodwork all over the place. You just refuse to call a spade a spade.
I'll call a spade a spade. I'm not going to call everything that's pointy or black a spade and I'm going to call out people who do because otherwise the spades will hide in plain sight since they're not being accurately singled out.
I've never defended nazism and I never will. I am without a doubt a progressive liberal, but I'm not a reactionary idiot who overly generalizes while picking and choosing who can do what. Calling every idiot a Nazi will just equate nazism with idiocy, when it's far far worse than that. Things are the way they are in big part because the American left snubbed an imperfect alternative to evil, not because of people telling you not to call anything you don't like "nazi". You guys (assuming you're American) are the one who need to take a step back and reevaluate how you think, say and do things. Trump couldn't have gotten there without you.
How tf was that pedantry? He wasn't defending nazis, he was saying that many people who are supposedly "nazis" aren't actually neonazis.
Trying to keep out a demographic that is not very likely to assimilate with your previous population is just common sense. If an island has 100 people, and you know that to most of them it is tradition to run around naked in public, are you going to let all of them or none of them into your country?
Yes, I think Trump is an authoritarian fascist on the way to dictatorship. He's not a nazi, he's too self-serving to follow any concrete ideology, but he uses nazi ideals to coax his far/alt-right followers who are, in worrying proportion, actual neo-nazis.
I mean the comment about them being white is racist at worst, but preferring to take in refugees that align with the existing culture of a country has nothing to do with Nazism? Not sure if you are ragebaiting or just ignorant?
I feel like if you ask the question "who is your ideal immigrant?" to people in China, Brazil, Russia, etc. they will more or less give you the same answer and say "people like me".
The "I punch Nazis" folks just enjoy going after low hanging fruit when that "people like me" answer comes from an average white guy living in the US.
Everybody likes people similar to themselves. It's not a novel idea. Thing is though, the world is complicated. People move around. Things happen. So this close minded thinking of only wanting to be around people that are similar to you (or at least, perceived to be similar) actually does open the door to some pretty hateful dehumanization.
So the comment is not just racist, it is literally nazi shit. Or you can use fascism. The label matters little; the output is the same. They use things like "culture" as an excuse. "Those people are 'incompatable'" "They are not 'true' Germans" etc etc.
We got our own version of that as those that are "anti-American" which is ironic since this country is built off immigration. In the absence of real change that helps average people in any given country, it's a way to draw a common enemy for the masses to rally against so that those in power can say "See, it's not the government screwing you over, its those dang (insert "other" attribute) people!"
you say this as if choosing who should be let inside a country and punishing hateful people are two mutually exclusive things. They are not. You can punish racists who spread hateful nonsense, while also being picky in who should be let it. In fact, that's how a lot of countries work. A lot of countries require you to pass certain tests to be able to live/work in the country. Does this mean those countries are ruled by nazis?
You see, the problem with that idea is that no government will subjectively choose who to let in based on something that's actually important, like safety. The "reasons" for not letting others into a country are fluid; they change at the whims of what is most convenient for the State.
But what is actually the right choice? If a criminal is escaping from their country for murdering people, for example, but they are a white Christian, should they be let in anyways? Under OP's idea of fair immigration, he might say yes, especially if that person killed someone that was not a Christian.
Even us deporting criminals is silly. If someone did a serious crime like murder, why should we just deport them to another country where they can just...do more murder? Wouldn't it be better to prosecute these people? (FYI we do. They don't just let immigrant murderers wander the streets lol, but the narrative is that we should deport)
While being white is the primary requirement Christian is still necessary to preserve the nation. You let in enough non-christians and you'll eventually end up with inferior undesirables.
Fr like 40% of the recent porn being made is by Ukrainian women. Someone could make a very interesting documentary about how the war caused this to spike.
What can I say? Nobody seems to be watching the porn space like me ig.
Ukrainian women → sudden cushy lives → no work permits → no way to pay for luxuries or tenancy → turning to porn on relatively new sites like onlyfans etc, promoting themselves everywhere on social media in hopes of striking it big
Pretty much everyone is guilty of committing a minor crime at some point in their life. Parking illegally is a crime. Driving 10mph over the speed limit is a crime.
I did the research, and I stand corrected. Around 20% were actually given a jail sentence, which is still not very good, but it's not the 64% that was claimed.
If we’re counting tickets as a crime, then probably literally anyone with a driver’s license. Did you forget people regularly go fifteen over the limit?
Like, a speeding ticket? That's a crime. Filing your taxes too late? Crime. I suspect being a foreigner in a country and not speaking the language could get you in some trouble sooner or later.
The total number of Palestinian refugees in Denmark is currently between 19,000 and 23,000. This Nigel Farage talking point you are parroting is based on one group of 321 stateless Palastinian refugees coming from Lebanon 1991. Their asylum requests were rejected, so around 70 of them began a 154-day church asylum protest in the basement of Blågårds Kirke in Copenhagen. This protest led to the passage of a special law in 1992 that ultimately granted residency to the entire group. The protest drew significant attention and support from Danish activists, artists, and politicians, including former Prime Minister Anker Jørgensen.
A 2019 report by the Danish Ministry of Immigration and Integration found that a high percentage of the original group, particularly those below retirement age, were receiving welfare benefits or early retirement pensions, often granted for severe physical or mental issues. This suggested long-term difficulties with finding and maintaining employment."
SEVERE PHYSICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. Gee, I wonder what could have happened to them?
Collective and continuous trauma: For many Palastinian refugees in Lebanon, the "post" in Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) does not apply because the threat never fully subsides. This has led some mental health experts to describe the ongoing mental health crisis as a "Continuous Traumatic Stress Disorder" (CTSD).
Studies of Palestinian and Syrian refugees in Lebanon show extremely high rates of anxiety, depression, and PTSD. The trauma is compounded by current hardships, such as poverty, lack of access to healthcare, and persistent discrimination. For the group that came to Denmark in 1991, this background of severe and ongoing trauma provided the context for their later struggles with integration and well-being.
No. I clicked his post since I appreciated the fact that he came with receipts. Figured I'd post the results from that link, since you Hamas supporters don't like reading.
Nice try though. "Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot" and whatnot. Yep, seen that before.
And yeah when you take in people fleeing a warzone who's lives have been destroyed, possibly have no friends of family, no possessions etc etc they might not be in the best state of mental health. Hell look at soldiers who signed up for it coming back and being addicts or being violent.
People with stable safe living conditions are not as less likely to commit crime and the opposite is also true.
Easy to blame immigrants rather than take a minute to ask why that might be the case.
Do you know the stats for their children? I guess a simple search about it would give you enough proof as to the flawed asylum seeker immigration model.
Nope because someone can have a nation of birth but be ethnically & culturally different from their nationality. Legally they're Lebanese, culturally they're Palestinian.
Even if all those cases were dismissed that still meant that they were suspected of commiting crimes at a statistically higher rate than other populations in the area.
As I remember it, the Black September conflict in Jordan is one of the main reasons neighboring countries became reluctant to accept large numbers of Palestinian refugees, they saw how destabilizing it could be.
Might be I am wrong, but that's the way I remember it.
Wasn't that almost a century ago? I get that the event was a tragedy and I can understand how it would leave a bad taste in one's mouth, but I don't really understand how that applies here.
Like my ancestors owned slaves, doesn't mean I'm pro-slavery. There's nothing inherent about being Palestinian that makes one prone to crime.
Yeah my grandma’s English is not the best, and she did mean the PM and not the king. I should have clarified in my original comment that she did mean the PM and not the king
Damn y'all do be having a lot of leaders getting offed by Palestinians. I get why you'd harbor some resentment.
It still feels like a weird stretch to me to assume that applies to Palestinians inherently though, and isn't just a biproduct of the sociopolitical tensions of the region.
Didn't your country and king illegally annex the west bank and oppressed them? And they were "Jordanians" at the time? If a king mistreats his subjects he should expect revolution.
Stop whitewashing your country's actions. Only three countries even recognized your illegal annexation, people just forgot after 1967 because of Israel but you were the first tyrant against the west bank
You realize that happened during the Arab-Israeli conflict in 1948, and actual annexation happened in 1950. The naturalized Palestinians actually got half of the Parliament seats. In 1948 the Palestinians had two choices, to let the new settlers take their country or go to Jordan.
Also homie, I am white. Idk what the hell you’re talking about when it comes to whitewashing. It’s like you’re using words but don’t know the meanings of…
Oh yeah, such an important position on the Parliament. It's a fucking monarchy, Palestinians couldn't secede, and the king had the final say on everything. Again, you're whitewashing your country's actions to justify racism
whitewashing means to minimise or cover up something such as a crime or other atrocities. it comes from applying whitewash which is used to paint walls white.
You get that the choice for Palestine at that point was either to become Israel or Jordan. Which nation gave them half of parliament? I’ll give you a guess, it wasn’t Israel. Which nation continued to take in refugees into them, and yes they got to move into Jordan proper and were given citizenship. Jordan went to war for Palestine. How do they repay the Jordanians? Slaughter their king and attempt to throw them into the same instability they threw Lebanon and Syria into. Is the Jordanian monarchy perfect? Nope but you can blame the British and French governments
You get that the choice for Palestine at that point was either to become Israel or Jordan. Jordan went to war for Palestine. How do they repay the Jordanians?
Where’s the option for Palestinian independence? Just because Jordan thinks they’re being kind and defending Palestine from Israel doesn’t give them the right to force them to be apart of Jordan.
Imagine if when Russia invaded Ukraine Poland came to there defence and a couple years later try to annex Ukraine, then when the Ukrainians try to push back against that and push for independence again the Poland says “it us or the Russians!” It’s not a real choice is it?
Slaughter their king and attempt to throw them into the same instability. they threw Lebanon and Syria into. Is the Jordanian monarchy perfect? Nope but you can blame the British and French governments
If you think the reason Lebanon and Syria are unstable is because of Palestinians then you might have a case of Palestinian derangement syndrome.
Lebanon had to deal with invasion from Israel, Syria, America and Isis, they had deal with ethnic and religious conflict between Sunnis, Shias, and Christian’s, Syria had to deal with Assad and the civil war, Isis, and American, British, turkish, gulf, Iran and Russian intervention
and somehow it’s those mean Palestinians who we’re inconsiderately kicked out of their homes and forced into Lebanon that are the problem
There wasn’t one. The brits weren’t going to let that happen you understand that right? I agree that what has happened has been completely unjust and unfair to the Palestinians people.
Nice false equivalency!
None of these countries exist until the French and English decided to fuck up the entire Middle East after the fall of Ottoman Empire. If you think that trying to usurp a struggling nation governments would make an unstable government safer than your wrong it only worsens the instability.
And that’s part of the problem! Ultimately that’s what the Palestinians wanted and it wasn’t on the table
The brits weren’t going to let that happen you understand that right?
Do you have an evidence to back up that it was the Brits who wouldn’t let that happen? Because to me it’s seems like Israel and the Hashemites were the ones that weren’t going to let that happen, considering that they actually thought against that happening.
Nice false equivalency!
How is it a false equivalency? Seriously it’s just a hypothetical comparison.
None of these countries exist until the French and English decided to fuck up the entire Middle East after the fall of Ottoman Empire. If you think that trying to usurp a struggling nation governments would make an unstable government safer than your wrong it only worsens the instability.
The Hashemites were part of that instability, they were holding onto to this idea of the West Bank remaining part of Jordan that obviously wasn’t going to happen, the Palestinians in the west bank didn’t want it, most Jordanians didn’t particularly want the West Bank to part of Jordan but they’re leaders clearly did, it just wasn’t something that was going to last and be stable. Maybe they were doing that on behalf of the British maybe they were doing it on their own accord maybe they were doing on behalf of the Israelis, maybe a mix of the three, who knows, the cause of the problem doesn’t really change the effect it had on the Palestinians
This is interesting to read. I know that Jordan accepted refugees and a large population within Jordan is Palestinian but I wasn't knowledgeable about what happened after.
Again Jordan has been one of the most stable countries in the Middle East since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Sorry people like stability in their nation
Being stable is better than being in a civil war like Lebanon or Syria that has results in countless civilian deaths. Is Jordan perfect? Nope! Never said it was
Absolutely irrelevant to the fact Jordan opened its doors to the refugees and they attempted a coup. It would still destabilise their nation. Sorry people like having a stable nation and Jordan has been doing very well with their kings
Also the fact that Palestinians essentially colonized southern Lebanon 50 years ago and have used it as a staging ground for attacks against Israel ever since, which is why Lebanon is the way it is today.
Also the fact that Gazans kept trying to overthrow the relatively secular Egyptian government and replace it with an Islamic extremist government that wages perpetual war against Israel, which is why Egypt closed its border with Gaza and built a giant border wall in 2009.
Also the fact that when Sadaam invaded Kuwait the Palestinian refugees in Kuwait supported Sadaam, which is why Kuwait expelled all of its Palestinian refugees after the Gulf War.
It's almost as if, generally, they agree with actual terrorists they have elected, and aspire to wipe Israel and jews off the face of the planet in the name of a fundamentalist cause - but Reddit loves them regardless!
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is so, so easy to say when you're an entire ocean away from the "freedom fighters".
If Native Americans started using Hamas tactics against US civilians, does anyone think that the pro-Hamas left would say "It's justified because they have a right to resist colonialism and reclaim their stolen land by any means necessary"?
I mean yea, this isn't a groundbreaking intellectual approach, this is a difficult problem people have run into in critical analysis. The complex interaction of theory and realization. In theory, most people agree that force is either perfectly justified or the lesser evil, when it comes to an oppressed group taking back their claim. In realization, the process of force has to have losers, and no one wants to be the loser because who wants to just die? Human values of justice and morality often come in clash with basic animal concerns like survival.
The only everyone-wins solution is peaceful resolution, but whenever you bring that up people will attack you because such approaches bring slow resolution, it's idealist, it's insulting to people who suffer ongoing deprivations, etc. That's why there's no easy resolution to any international or civil conflict, and anyone who makes this witty little offhand remarks about NIMBYs is just contributing more noise than actually resolving the discussion.
I mean the Indian removal act was largely because the Native American tribes in the southern states would not stop raiding American settlements, and there are people today that call that chapter of American history evil, senselessly violent and cruel. While we may have been able to handle the situation better and I don’t agree with Andrew jackson, I do think you would have people supporting a violent native cause on the same grounds, because they support its historical examples
I would argue it was kind of fucked up forcing the Cherokee out of the SE US. They were a cohesive nation that basically settled down and was like "you know, the Europeans have some good ideas" and sided with American settlers against other tribes and effectively Westernized themselves, living as homesteaders and developing their own written language, had schools and adopted Christianity and practiced slavery.
In a bizarre coincidence, the Indian Removal Act began less than a year after gold was found on Cherokee land, which would become known as the Georgia Gold Rush.
Oh yeah that was fucked but I’m not saying Indian removal wasn’t fucked a number of ways all I am saying is that there were arguments for doing so at the time that weren’t blind racism
This is why Andrew Jackson was so popular with the people of his time. He kept trying to deal with the tribes and they kept breaking their word so he said Fuck It and deported them all. It's easy to see him as a bad guy now, but if you read the history he was actually pretty reasonable.
Yes, they support it when it happened in the past, to other people.
But their tune would quickly change if it was them and their friends and their family getting raped and murdered, rather than other people who lived 200 years ago.
I think it'd be more accurate if it was the Natives buying more land back for themselves to reclaim their land and then the non natives started using Hamas methods
Makes me think of King Phillip's war (1673-1678). It was an extremely brutal total war on both sides, actually being the deadliest war per capita in American history
Considering what Israel has done to them for generations, of course they are furious and want them all dead. Israel has broken every agreement and has proven they can't be trusted, so why try? Hatred runs deep. I saw it several times when I was in the military, how countries run roughshod over their neighbors and ruin their lives. It's real easy to judge when we've never been in that situation.
Yo hive mind downvotes me too for agreeing with this comment wholeheartedly! Are you guys part of Israel’s social media campaign to push their talking points or do you do it for free lol?
Palestinians have hated Jews since before Israel even existed this is nothing new. In fact Amin al-Husseini who was one of the leaders of mandatory Palestine was a nazi collaborator.
What if, hear me out, the deal completely shafted the Palestinians? They don’t have much leverage in the discussions; it would be easy as hell for Israel to propose deals that were super beneficial to them, then paint Palestine as evil when they backed out.
Same thing happens in Ukraine/russia, and even US govt and one side throwing random extra shit into a super important and necessary bill to try and push it through or otherwise make the other party look bad for not passing the necessary bill.
The deal was, the Israeli representative outright ask them what they would like in exchange for peace, the Palestinian representative said the Jews out and left. They didn't want peace.
I don’t think it would be any better if Palestinians were in control of Israel, but you can’t justify the actual genocide of one group with imagined potential genocide if circumstances magically reversed…. In short, Israel bad.
Also the fact that Palestinians essentially colonized southern Lebanon 50 years ago and have used it as a staging ground for attacks against Israel ever since
Gee, i wonder how they ended up there and why they'd want to attack Israel.
Wonder why those conflicts mostly came about from the 1940's on.
Because they are Islamic extremists/Arab ultranationalists.
They mostly lived in peace, Muslims, Christians and Jews, before the Zionist movement came around. Every region had their historical conflicts but pretending like Israel isn't a major source of conflict in the region for the past century is just not accepting reality.
1st - you are ignoring spurts of violence like expulsions and local pogromswhich litter the history of the Ottoman Empire.
2nd - There was a kind of peace but the Jim Crow South also had "peace". Jews and Christians could live in the Ottoman Empire with Muslim neighbours, but they had to live as 2nd class citizens, with fewer rights, varying by time.
you are ignoring spurts of violence like expulsions and local pogromswhich litter the history of the Ottoman Empire.
Because i wasn't talking about that era at all.
There was a kind of peace but the Jim Crow South also had "peace". Jews and Christians could live in the Ottoman Empire with Muslim neighbours, but they had to live as 2nd class citizens, with fewer rights, varying by time.
Kind of how the Palestinians live today in Israel? Not to mention the West Bank or Gaza, i mean Israel proper.
They mostly lived in peace, Muslims, Christians and Jews, before the Zionist movement came around.
So when you say
Because i wasn't talking about that era at all.
I have to assume you don't know what you're talking about because the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1908 and Palestine was controlled by a Turkish Empire until 1916, after Zionism had already gotten a bit popular.
We can criticize the actions of Israel without relying on historical revision to simplify the conflict.
You were because the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1908 and Palestine was still controlled by a Turkish Empire for another 8 years until 1916, after Zionism had already gotten a bit popular.
You are correct, i was imprecise with my timeline, sorry about that.
At the same time, this doesn't invalidate my point that in that region, before Zionist goals were clearly being worked toward, there was a mostly peaceful coexistence of people. This coexistence is still visible in the West Bank and Gaza, where Christians live and practice their faith freely.
The issue wasn't a religious one, it was an invasive force one, they just so happened to be of a particular religion.
We can criticize the actions of Israel without relying on historical revision to simplify the conflict.
Unfortunately this is very true, you don't need to simplify anything in order to view the systematic ethnic cleansing process that has been ongoing for close to 80 years now, even leading to instances of full on genocide such as what has been going on in Gaza for the past two years.
We wouldn't apply this label to any other power imbalance. In the grand dynamic, there was no war between peoples and so actual spurts of enormous violence were sparse, but the threat of violence was always present for those with 2nd class identities.
The history of the Ottoman Empire is full of model minority beurocrats who rise to great heights, only to be killed by a racist mob, mostly with the implicit consent of the government, when something like a harvest fails.
We wouldn't apply this label to any other power imbalance. In the grand dynamic
This applied to basically anywhere in the world at some point in history, many places even today, including Israel.
The history of the Ottoman Empire is full of model minority beurocrats who rise to great heights, only to be killed by a racist mob, mostly with the implicit consent of the government, when something like a harvest fails.
Same as the prior statement, this is applicable in a huge number of regions and eras. What happened to Rabin in 1995 when the harvest of land was going to fail?
Jews wanted self government for a reason. So did Armenians, Georgians, Greeks, Bulgarians, etc. We can't ignore that.
I understand the want for self-governance, the issue is when you have to complete an incredibly violent process of ethnic cleansing to achieve that and the victims of that process weren't even a particularly big part of the historic issues Jewish people lived. You can't ignore that either.
750.000 displaced and thousands killed during the Nakba.
Easily over 67.000 dead in the past two years, with a huge percentage of them being children.
An entire population that lives for the past 80 years without right to govern themselves, despite multiple attempts to achieve just that, having to go day by day with an Israeli boot on their neck.
Why do they have to foot the bill for every Jewish persecution in the past when they literally fought alongside the British during WW2 to help free them?
Why do they have to foot the bill for every Jewish persecution in the past when they literally fought alongside the British during WW2 to help free them?
This is largely untrue. If anything the Palestinian political leader, or Mullah, was very chummy with Hitler.
I understand the want for self-governance, the issue is when you have to complete an incredibly violent process of ethnic cleansing to achieve that...
It was not necessary, which is why Jewish leadership acceptyhe initial partition plan that would allow for a Jewish state with up to 40% of the population as Arab Muslims. The intafada followed the subsequent civil war when Muslim leaders rejected the deal.
It was not necessary, which is why Jewish leadership acceptyhe initial partition plan that would allow for a Jewish state with up to 40% of the population as Arab Muslims.
"The Israeli strategy in 1948 of “maximum land and a fewer Arabs” partly explains the survival of a Palestinian minority within the Green Line, equivalent to 13 percent of the population in 1949 — a figure that has risen today to 20 percent of Israel's population.](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654742)"
The intafada followed the subsequent civil war when Muslim leaders rejected the deal.
The first intifada started in the late 80's while the Nakba, which resulted in the driving out of over 750.000 Palestinians and the murder of thousands and the left over percentage of Palestinians as indicated above happened between late 1947 and 1948.
It also states: " This massive support for the Nazi war effort by the leader of the Palestinian Arabs, for which he narrowly escaped postwar prosecution by the Allies, overshadows the thousands of (mainly opposition) Palestinian Arabs who defied their leader and took up arms against the Nazis—often shoulder to shoulder with the much more numerous young Jews from Mandatory Palestine who did so. "
Your source literally says that those volunteers were overshadowed by the Arab political support for Hitler in Palestine.
However, yeah now it's my turn to looK stupid. Instead of "Intafada" I should have said Naqba.
Your source literally says that those volunteers were overshadowed by the Arab political support for Hitler in Palestine.
In the quote i added it even mentions that, no point in acting like it's a gotcha or something i didn't read about.
My point wasn't that the leadership wasn't doing self-preserving moves that weren't on the right side of history, moreso that the people that later got displaced by the Zionists even went against the will of their leader, with over 12.000 of them fighting for the freedom of the Jewish people in Nazi occupied territories.
You know how sad it is knowing the people you fought for, even if your leadership didn't, later destroyed your people's way of life?
Instead of "Intafada" I should have said Naqba.
Yeah, happens. Still, while there were some more left-leaning and moderate voices within the Zionist movement, what actually happened was that close to 90% of the people who lived within a massive part of Palestine were ethnically cleansed from their lands, their homes destroyed, their physical history wiped.
Ok I see your point about the volunteers, their suffering in the Naqba is definitely the most bitter.
What I'm not understanding is why we need to tell these stories about how everyone lives happily together when that is only true with the most surface level analysis of how people lived? Non-Muslims lived as second class citizens. That may be vastly preferable to not being tolerated at all, which could be the case under Christian dominance, but that doesn't mean their experience is somehow no longer one of oppression and sectarianism.
What I'm not understanding is why we need to tell these stories about how everyone lives happily together when that is only true with the most surface level analysis of how people lived? Non-Muslims lived as second class citizens. That may be vastly preferable to not being tolerated at all, which could be the case under Christian dominance, but that doesn't mean their experience is somehow no longer one of oppression and sectarianism.
As you point out, they had it considerably worse in Europe, also living as second class citizens in cordoned off areas which they were segregated to, with less religious freedom, many pogroms, expulsions and other tragic events all over the continent. I can speak for this all happening in my own country.
When compared to that, they did live a better life in places like Palestine up until the Zionist movement came about, which is the point i was making at the start.
That movement, the tension it caused and violence inherently necessary to achieve their goals was always going to lead to an unstable country, but more than that it lead to an entirely unstable region.
Who's to say that if the Zionists had been able to live in peace with the Palestinians and have a equitable share of land thy bought that we wouldn't today be seeing in that region the same we see in other Muslim majority countries like Turkey? After all, you can still see today Palestinians being accepting of Christians even in Gaza where tensions are sky high, let alone the West Bank.
Ok, but my contention is that you're denying the very real appeals for rights among 2nd class citizens of the Muslim world and chalking up all this animosity to the Zionist movement. You're in effect denying the oppression of Jews in the Dhimmi system.
A tolerant society like that of the Ottoman Empire is better than a society that is intolerant of minorities, but the tolerant Turkish Empire or the Arab Empires that preceded it were fundamentally exclusionary towards these minorities, who to varying degrees were not able to participate in public life as a normal citizen. They were constrained to ghettos, forced to wear distinctive clothing such as yellow stars, and were barred from the Justice System.
Such a society is able to suppress violence so people live in peace, but I would not say that it is a just society.
Ok I see your point about the volunteers, their suffering in the Naqba is definitely the most bitter.
What I'm not understanding is why we need to tell these stories about how everyone lives happily together when that is only true with the most surface level analysis of how people lived? Non-Muslims lived as second class citizens. That may be vastly preferable to not being tolerated at all, which could be the case under Christian dominance, but that doesn't mean their experience is somehow no longer one of oppression and sectarianism.
Because post-WW2 decolonization led to the rise of a lot of ultranationalist movements, Arab nationalism being just one of them.
People wanted their land, where they lived for centuries, to be a nation that is recognized internationally. Is that a issue for you?
History of Muslim-Jewish Conflicts: From the 7th Century to Today
I like how you send me a general history of Jewish/Muslim conflicts, which nobody is denying happened, and try to pin that on the people from the specific region i am referring to. Classy.
They "mostly lived in peace" (as long as you ignore the extensive history of violence).
There were conflicts all over the world. Africa, Asia, Europe, etc., many of these were due to religious or ideological differences. Do all the countries that lived through that history and last to this day somehow become open to be colonized by external forces now because they did not always live in peace?
Yikes, looks like worldnews ziobots spilled over into this sub.
Its always interesting how history becomes reshaped whenever a zionist speaks, and you’ll see what I mean in a second.
“Palestinians colonised lebanon” - After the arab israeli war, the mass displacement of Palestinians caused them to land in various surrounding countries as refugees, with one of them being lebanon. No citizenship, no property, no work.
To zionists, this is OBVIOUSLY colonisation (but they wont see it in their own history for sure haha). lets put some more context in - The tensions were due to lebanons fragile sectarian balance (christian/muslim). the israel palestine conflict spilling over with palestinian refugees entering didnt help it at all. The lebanese civil war was caused by a complex mix of sectarian, political, and foreign interventions (This includes PLO activities, but as zionists we love collective punishment!). The region was entirely devastated by Israel, which is obviously an ignored fact by our well-educated commenter here.
“Egypt”
There is absolutely 0 historical records of gazans trying to overthrow egypt. the border closure was due to lobbying from Israel and the US in order to isolate Hamas, who were ideologically aligned with the egyptian muslim brotherhood (Domestic rivals of the egyptian government). So to break it down, it was a political containment, not a coup (Really, where does this come from????)
“The Palestinians in kuwait supported saddam so they got expelled”
There was upto around 400k Palestinians already having lived there for decades before the Iraqi invasion. the PLO supported Saddam hussein, but despite many Palestinians being against the invasion, Kuwait exercised collective punishment on nearly all of them. But we know that zionists and collective punishment are like two balls in a ballsack.
The Kuwaiti one, at least, isn’t quite true, as Saddam arrested 5,000 Palestinians who helped the Kuwaiti resistance and half of the Palestinians who eventually left had done so before Kuwait’s liberation.
Yasser Arafat definitely didn’t help things, though.
I thought that the whole point of "free Palestine" was to make sure Palestinians could remain and live in their native Palestine, so it doesn't really seem contradictory for people who support this idea to not want to accept their refugees.
I mean.. the whole point of the movement is to make Palestine livable for Palestinians so they can live there.
Hell, doesn't wanting to take Palestinians out of their homeland and spread them all over the world seem like the exact opposite of the "Free Palestine" movement?
“Free Palestine” means they want all non-Muslims evicted from Israel by any means necessary, and the entirety of Israel granted to Palestinians/Hamas. It is not an option.
The thing is that a ton of other groups like Muslims, Christians, Beduins and Druzes already live in Israel with no issues, and can do their lives with the same freedom of Jewish citizens (just Muslims alone represent the 20% of Israel's population).
So, an Israel "from the river to the sea" is not that menacing (specially when is not a general sentiment there in Israel).
Meanwhile, a Palestine "from the river to the sea" not only imply the expulsion or extermination of Jews, but also of other groups as well, including Muslims from "the wrong denomination".
Gaza and WB also has Christians and different ethnic groups. Also plenty of non Jews in Israel claim they are not treated equally.
It's also absurd to claim its not menacing for Israel to claim the whole of Palestine because.... they have 20% Muslim population. In what world does that make Israel's threats of stealing more territory less sinister? Why do Zionists act like having an Arab minority means anything?
All territory from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean is historically Palestinian territory, if you think that means Jews need to be expelled it's because you're an ethno supremacist and only recognise the rights and humanity of one group. The quote has nothing to do with Islam, or any division within Palestinian communities.
"A county led by the religion that very openly advertises that it has a right to kill people who don't believe in it will be fair and respectful to people not of that religion"
Islam doesn't permit killing non Muslims. You know when Hamas ran for government in Gaza they did it with Christian Palestinians on their ticket. Christian and Muslim Palestinians have a very close and respectful relationship. Israelis spit on Christians regularly.
By no means were 64% of them "serious crimes." The majority were minor fines or resulted in warnings.
Meanwhile, in one year alone, in Denmark, about 10% of all Danish committed crimes. In one year. Sheesh, by ten years, everyone's committed a crime in Denmark! They should really kick out all those (checks notes) Danish criminals from Denmark amirite
Nice context bro. It was a specific subgroup of asylum seekers who had previously had their application denied. 64% were convicted for things including traffic violations. 11.5% of the convicted actually saw jail time.
r/greentext chuds really out here translating “a minority of randos who weren’t accepted the first time around but wound up getting in anyway ended up committing some crimes” into “Palestinians Will Eat Your Skin!!”
We took way more than that. the 321 people where those who got rejected, then occupied a church and have then became the reason why no one wants more immigration from the middle east.
Yeah you got to get your women and feminine men under control toxic femininity and narcissistic empathy is a fuck around and find out phenomena.
You need to harden your heart I'm tired of my country supporting either one of those two cunts. I'm about ready to expel every single member advocating for either side from my country. Trillions of dollars wasted on holy wars supported by fundamentalist abrahamic religions, I'm done you want to save your holy land load up a gun and I'll take you all over there the streets can run with blood while my streets are clean and blood free. You want to send a billion to Israel open your own damn pocket book.
Idgf about ukraine, israel, Lebanon, europe, asia, or anyone else fuck em. If your more focused on what's going on in the desert 2000 miles away go there and fuck off.
Literally wtf even happened in Egypt, Palestinians never did anything here. Only ever coup that Palestinians were a major player in was black September
That part doesn’t… but it doesn’t change the fact that the Palestinians still did try to overthrow Egypt and that Hamas is a part of the Muslim Brotherhood
I tried to look it up, and I’m a big enough person to admit I was wrong. I thought when Egypt and refused the refugees together that Egypt had their own black September. My question for you then is why didn’t you guys take any Palestinian refugees this time around?
Well basically every country thats taken in a bunch of them gets fucked over by them. They legit helped sadam invade Kuwait. Once thw war was over they kicked the Palestinians out. They tend to commit crimes and try to overthrow the government that takes them in. If the middle east won't take them you have to assume there is a reason. There is.
Yes? That’s what happens when an area gets destroyed. You rebuild it and continue living there it doesn’t just become some walled off exclusion zone that stays that way forever
I think their point is that it's a long and lengthy process on people who already are coming from somewhere really rough and this is taxing on countries that accept these refugees. morally it's the right thing to do, but financially it's very taxing for something that's already politically divisive.
Well maybe Israel and their bought US politicians should have thought of that before spending billions of dollars and destroying every fucking square inch of the place. You don’t get to just cause massive problems that tons of people were against and then cry once the unlubed dick of easily foreseeable consequences arrives. So now we either pay to fix their home and not have refugees and maybe limit the amount of them that grow up to hate our country and become terrorists OR we pay a lot of money to take them in as refugees that will most likely struggle to assimilate and commit crime. Thanks Israel I hope killing those women and children was worth it. So Don’t act like it’s only problematic now. People were saying this would be the outcome and that the actions were never justified and would cost a hell of a lot more than just the cost of the bombs the entire fucking time. Now it’s time to pay the bill or suffer even more consequences. The time for bitching about Israel’s actions was the previous two years. Now it’s time to waste even more money fixing the problems THEY caused. If you have a problem with that then stop supporting pointless wars and speak out against it instead of wasting your time speaking out against the solutions
No. Many european jews fled to other countries as refugees, but the ones that went to British Palestine were there to colonize it, not to take refuge and integrate with another country's culture
Why accept refugees when you can just stop the cause of the refugees? If Canada invaded USA i wouldn't want to accept an American. I would want to stop the Canadians lol.
I mean, I think every person here wants Is**** to lose this fight, but how can they when damn near every western government is actively supporting them? They've got us by the balls and make us do whatever they want, simple as that.
Okay. Lets start by saying im perfectly willing to change my opinion and im not here to just throw mud.
In my opinion:
Israel (the government) is yes absolutely guilty as fuck and should be internationally condemned and not supported.
But so does hamas.
Israel committed horrible atrocities but how does that makes hamas better?
I dont understand why we cant condemn both sides when one is a literal terrorist organizantion and the other is trying to commit genocide.
If you are saying this is black and white and Israel is the black then HAMAS is the good guys which is....
I mean surely even if you (as do i) support Palestinian rights you cant say with a straight face that HAMAS are the good guys.
Also semi related but another important thing reddit always fails on is
Israeli government ≠ Israeli people
HAMAS ≠ Palestinian people
And to clear it up: Im not saying HAMAS being guilty justifies everything Israel does the same way as Israel being guilty doesnt justify everything HAMAS does.
Its a nuanced situation with both sides committing atrocities stemming from more than two thousand years of conflict in the region and animosity built up over at the very least decades but more like centuries.
Saying "hes good" and "hes bad" the end is just a dangerous mentality almost anywhere.
Everyone should be held responsible for their actions no matter what they are fighting for.
Western progressives constantly make excuses for Palestinian extremism and Islamic extremism in general because it doesn't affect them personally. They also constantly try to change the subject to Christian extremism whenever it comes up because Christian extremism does affect them personally, even though Islamic extremism is objectively a bigger global problem.
Their entire mindset is "it only matters if it affects me personally".
This is one of my problems with much of the Left (I say this as a Leftist). We are completely unable to recognize that Islamist Extremism is essentially in its own category of religious extremism. My view is that Islam is so backwards because of the insane wealth that the Islam-dominated theocracies produce in oil. So they've never been forced to change and liberalize because they're newly wealthy, and there's no outside pressure to liberalize. The historically Christian nations are much more Liberal simply because they've been wealthy way longer, so there's been more time for them to Liberalize. The Islam-dominated countries have been wealthy for much shorter times. And because there's nothing forcing them to Liberalize, we are in the mess we are currently in. I have a few Muslim/ex-Muslim friends in a super liberal city in the US, and they all tell me that Islam is super backwards compared to every other Abrahamic religion.
This is just a very incomplete view that ignores the Western world's deliberate strategy to keep the rest of the world poor through financial domination.
Christian nations had to earn their liberal society through the productive middle class fighting the church and the aristocracy who grew fat under tithes and rent. The Islamic world never had its own English Civil War, French Revolution, or 1848 Revolutions.
Instead, its development was kept in stasis due to colonialism. Then, secular leaders sprang up that didn't want their nations subordinate to the West and were undermined or deposed of by Western-backed factions or by the West itself.
And even worse, the Gulf states are just put in this resource curse situation where the class dynamics that gave Europe liberalism are nullified by vast amounts of oil wealth. They don't need to industrialize, they don't need to tax its citizens, they can just openly eliminate any opposition without consequence because they are happily subordinate to the West.
So, no, Islam isn't uniquely backwards. People, especially ex-Muslims, ignore the geopolitical and economic reasons as to why the Islamic world is the way that it is. It's the same society that promoted sciences and preserved Greek texts.
My view is that Islam is so backwards because of the insane wealth that the Islam-dominated theocracies produce in oil.
As oil declines in importance over the coming decades, Arab states will become more and more economically irrelevant. Paraphrasing the extremely wealthy leader of an Arab oil state "My grandfather rode a camel, my father drove shitty car, I drive a luxury car, my son will drive a shitty car, and my grandson will ride a camel".
Israel, of course, will not have this problem, because Israel has a very modern economy based on technology and innovation, and not just exploiting oil resources.
Problem is it won't work because sustainable economic growth necessarily requires a free and open society, which Arab states will never be (unless they go through a cultural enlightenment like the West did a few centuries ago, but that ain't happening any time soon).
...by stealing Western tech, which they have to do, because technological innovation is impossible in a totalitarian society like China where free thought is illegal.
Still works though. Innovation as a comparative advantage that can be outsourced is an interesting idea. We can have an entirely gestalt robot hive mind, political stability, and import new ideas from less stable overseas states.
Socially Conservative, Unitary, Highly focused on honor, dignity, and submission and service to the authority, either God or the government. Power is held by a few autocrats with pluralism discouraged and dissidents persecuted. Seems similar enough to me
Good point. A lot of these wealthy Arab countries still abuse slave labor, and at this point, it's been well-known for two centuries that slavery always hurts an economy more than it helps it.
The name for what you're describing is the Dutch Disease
Once they developed their offshore natural gas resources the demand for Dutch kroner spiked (people need to buy kroner with their own currency before using it to pay for gas), driving up the currency value and rendering all other manufactured exports non-competitive.
Literally an economy-wide disincentive to develop anything but oil & gas, it becomes far cheaper to import other good and services vs produce domestically
I agree. Acceptance of islam is like a cancer rotting the left wing movement from the inside. It is a genius move to destabilise the entire ideology by rich billionaires in the middle east.
You're wrong. The reason Islam has never reformed or liberalized is because their most holy text is explicitly not open to interpretation, discussion, or debate. The Qur'an is the literal direct, unabridged word of God. Anyone who dares deviate from the majority opinion is a schismatic and schismatics are by definition apostates, and apostates are to be put to death. No questions, no argument, no interpretation or leeway.
Islamic extremism doesn't exist. It is Islam in its most correct and direct form. Non-Muslims are explicitly given three choices: Conversion, submission, or death. Anyone who doesn't behave like this is explicitly not a very good Muslim by the very text of their holy book, which, I stress, is not open to interpretation.
While all 3 have radicals of their own. Islam is also the youngest of the major abrahamic religions, and has not had the time go through the radical phase that both Christianity, and Judaism has. I agree, the extreme wealth, and lack of outside pressure to liberalize really isn't doing anything to help the process along.
Weird how the people who insist that Palestine as a whole can't be held responsible for the actions of Hamas never have any problem holding Israel as a whole responsible for the actions of Netanyahu's government.
I don't necessarily think that every Israeli who's ever existed should be demonized, but at the same time israelis are free to leave their country whenever, Palestinians literally cannot leave; additionally almost every Israeli has contributed to the genocide by serving in the idf
Virtually every Palestinian in Gaza has a connection to Hamas too. Guess that means that they can all be personally held responsible for October 7th then.
"has a connection to Hamas" could mean literally anything in the world, virtually everyone in America has connections to the military, doesn't mean they served
People who say this always conveniently ignore the fact that Islamic terrorists have an extensive history of not wearing military uniforms to blend in with civilians, deliberately using civilian infrastructure to conduct military operations, and hiding behind civilians during combat.
There's a reason why the Geneva Conventions explicitly state that combatants who don't wear uniforms lose their protected status and civilian infrastructure that's used for military purposes loses its protected status and becomes a valid military target.
Palestinian extremism is awful. It’s also a bit of a “backed into a literal corner” scenario geographically and no longer excuses the equivalent Israeli aggression (proven by the leveling and 1-in-10-icide we’ve seen). It’s like when the most immature and tumultuous roommates you’ve ever met fight and you end up having to call the cops. Neither looks good, the weaker party is usually only “vindicated” by their inability to enact brutality on the same scale as the other one. I don’t want to live with either of them unless proven peaceful.
They also constantly try to change the subject to Christian extremism whenever it comes up
This is extremely frustrating to see from regressives. These people stone gays, cut clits off of women, and then throw acid in the face of those women for good measure. What do Christians in the West do? Be annoying about their skygod from time to time?
Outside of the random racists, most people are not against refugees, they are against the insulated communities that refuse to assimilate. The ones who bring the same mentality and cultural norms over that started the problem.
If Palestinians came over and followed our rules and were productive civil people, there'd be no issues.
For real, there would be much less racism itself if these people integrated as well, but the media of these nations seems to purposely push them away from that idea and encourage them to be resentful and hostile towards the natives.
yup. We had many Vietnamese refugees. A vast majority of them just got on with life and had awesome kids like my dentist. Or knocking out great pho and banh mi.
I don't think the arguments are mutually exclusive? I don't want these people to get slaughtered in their land while said land is actively being stolen.
What exactly is the hypocrisy in standing for that and not necessarily wanting them in my country?
People often contrast the Ukrainian refugee situation with the Syrian refugee crisis. But it should be mentioned that the Ukrainian refugee settlement was an organized process agreed upon by Ukraine and western nations, while the Syrian refugee crisis (and others) tended to be unorganized movements of people
Almost like accepting a bunch of people with vastly different cultural backgrounds into your society leads to social turmoil and increased crime rates.
Israel left and removed every single jew from the Gaza strip. Look online and you'll find videos of IDF soldiers dragging jews by their arms. For the first time in centuries, Gaza did not have a single jew living in it. The UN held elections for this new state of Gaza.
And what did the Gazans do with this newfound freedom? They immediately elected a terror organization who's charter included the extermination of every jew, who immediately started bombing Israel.
If you think "leaving palestine alone" would stop them, you don't understand Hamas. If Israel flew to the moon, Hamas would build a spaceship to follow them there to fight them. They don't exist for Palestine. They exist to kill Israelis.
And the Israelis sure as shit wouldn't allow this scenario to happen again in the West Bank.
They left and only blockaded their ports, controlled all movement in and out, and strictly controlled what was allowed to be built and with what materials.
Bro was NOT alive in 2005 ( neither was I , but hey I can at least read ).
If the remaining unoccupied areas were ruled by a government that was focused on itself instead of trying to get a pointless revenge against Israel then the blockades wouldn’t happen and we wouldn’t even be here.
I’m not trying to argue that Israel did nothing wrong and that the kids there should lick Netanyahu’s and Ben Gvir’s boots but it’s not as simple as “ Muh the juice are hurting us ! “
The mental gymnastics required to say Israel is so unjustified but then turning around and saying an actual terror group that openly says one of its primary modus operandi is to genocide an entire people, who then killed, raped, and kidnapped innocent people in the thousands is the sympathetic one in this scenario.
I'm not saying Israel does not do fucked up things. But you're softballing hamas.
Most pro-Palestinian leftists I know don’t support Hamas, but merely want the immediate end of a war that has brought mass destruction of essential infrastructures and caused, directly and indirectly, famine, disease, starvation and death, including women and children.
The fact that Palestinians do actively support terrorist organizations with stated genocidal intentions does not imply that sympathy and even full support for them should be denied. Before the Israelis drove them away from their original territory coexisted in exemplary peace with their neighbors and internal religious and cultural differences weren’t cause for violence or hateful division.
They have unfortunately turned to these radical extremist organizations not because they’re simply bad, but because they have been radicalized in the face of despair, dispossession and unending oppression.
An analogous case of systematic oppression leading to the brutalization of the oppressed group can be seen in the United States in black communities, where crime rates are on average higher than in most other communities. Instead of conflating blackness or being socialized as an African American with being rapacious and unscrupulous we should look at the material causes of these problems in order to effectively and definitively solve them.
Instead of assigning blame to Hamas or Israel for starting the war we should attack the root of the problem, namely, the subjection of the Palestinian people and their lack of a fixed, emancipated homeland since 1948.
Palestinians are often accused of not keeping their part of the agreements, which they indeed have done. But one should not forget that contracts go both ways, and Israel, the incomparably greater economic and military power, has blatantly ignored important stipulations regulating the relationship between Palestinians and Israelis and the intended political compromises. The far-right political faction in Israel was for a long time unwilling to reach an agreement, etc.
Let’s also not forget why historically oppressed peoples often turn to violence as a means of asserting their autonomy and regaining their freedom. As multiple peaceful attempts at achieving lasting peace in Palestine have shown, Israel is simply unconcerned with giving a dignified living to the millions of Palestinians living in and around Israel. Rightly or not, many have sought in terrorist organizations a voice whereby they will make themselves heard.
If you live in a society or community that elevates some dweeb like ben shapiro, it means your society is occupied and being looted and you are propagandized from birth to spread your legs for the circumcised log.
Ukrainian refugees don't have a long and documented history of trying to overthrow their new host countries. Hezbollah is a direct creation of refugees fleeing into Lebanon in the 70s, several Middle East countries were majorly destabilized the last time they took in large groups of Palestenians. Sucks but no one wants to risk it now. Not ideal but the best solution really would be to move everyone to a new development on the Sinai and give them their own country again built by the people who destroyed their last one.
I’m not opposed to a theoretical Palestine that is ruled by a government that recognises Israel’s right to exist but good luck with making the citizens there NOT resent us for the shit we did to them.
I literally don’t know how the fuck this conflict should be resolved , some extremist Israelis think that we should’ve went all in and conquered Gaza but this would only add to their hatred.
Arabs are the most generous people I know - to the point their generosity actively hold back the devs of capitalism. They would go out on a limb to help atheist infidels like me, never mind other Arabs and Muslims.
Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon practiced this generosity from the 1950s all the way to the 1980s. One by one, stuff involving Palestinians happened in these host countries that caused a 180° shift in attitude
They are allegedly linked to Anwar Sadat's (president of egypt) assassination
In lebanon there was the 1975-90 civil war where palestinian's hugely contributed and caused a pretty big demographic shift towards an eventual muslim majority
Im not sure about syria.
Palestinians (living in kuwait) also supported Saddam Hussein invasion of kuwait.
Obviously these are a bit more nuanced and i recommend reading up on them before forming an opinion but even with some mitigating circumstances its not by chance that palestinians have a pretty bad reputation in arabic nations
Jordan did and their king got killed. Egypt did it and now they have terrorists in sinai. Lebanon did it and now hezbollah is terrorising the populous just as much as israel
It’s so funny when the same people who love to throw around out of context refugee or immigrant crime statistic suddenly don’t care about the fact that statistically speaking conservative white men are the most likely pedophiles.
I hate Israel and I heavily sympathize with the Palestinians, but they’re the most radicalized group of people on planet earth and they commit acts of terrorism wherever they go. I wouldn’t want their refugees either. Other countries have taken them in the past and it’s been a disaster for each of them.
Jordan has taken millions of Palestenians as refugees and millions of Syrians as refugees. Bullshit that people keep calling out Jordan which is a small country with no real power, yet they have literally taken millions of refugees.
This is only true if you consider all Palestinians everywhere to be refugees (which the UN absurdly does) even when they have citizenship/permanent residency somewhere.
Because fun fact, a majority of Jordanian citizens are ethnically Palestinian, but they're still considered to be "refugees" by the UN, even though they have Jordanian citizenship and live permanently in Jordan.
Palestine refugees are defined as “persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.”
UNRWA services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. The descendants of Palestine refugee males, including adopted children, are also eligible for registration.
Anyone who was displaced in 1948, or any descendent thereof, qualifies for "refugee" status under the UNRWA definition.
You aren't a refugee if you gain citizenship because UNRWA is no longer the organization responsible for you. Your country of citizenship is, that's why Israelis aren't refugees according to UNRWA while qualifying for the that criteria
THIS SHOULD BE THE CASE, BUT PALESTINIANS ARE THE EXCEPTION.
Your scenario is exactly what the detractors of the UNRWA definition want it to be. It isn't. UNRWA counts all palestinians and their descendants as refugees. We do not do this for anyone else, including jews, who 95% came to Israel as refugees in the first place.
They don't, UNRWA also cared for the Jewish refugees who similarly were living in the land of Palestine at the time. After Israel formed by a few years, they basically said that they'll take care of their citizens from then on. Most Palestinians don't have citizenship of any state though so they're mostly refugees.
Palestinians with citizenship of states that take care of their citizens aren't under the care of UNRWA but of their governments
For thoses that want to understand how ridiculous this definition is. DJ Khaled is considered a refugee that can opt for UNRWA benefits despite being a second generation palestinian american.
They've only taken \~100k since the current conflict began. Most of the millions of refugees you mention were taken in during previous conflicts in 1948 and 1967.
It's almost like one of these refugee groups were peaceful and assimilated well into whatever place they relocated. And the other keeps trying to enforce their fucked up barbaric ass backwards religion and beliefs onto others instead of adapting wherever they go, huh strange that one of these groups keeps garnering disdain who'd a thunk it.
Don't think most people , are pro israel . They just understand that the Palestinians are radical muslims and do not progress with the rest of the world, thus a lot of muslims countries don't even accepted them as we should not accept them refugees in the EU.
Because they're violent, where as Ukranians are not. Let's not tip toe around the truth now, any pro Palestinian person would refuse to have one living in their house with them.
In germany its a tad over 50% on welfare.
Official numbers say its 700K on welfare, roughly 200k of them are children who can't work (duh), the rest doesn't work (But they could).
The place in question has been ruled over for nearly 80 years.
If we used this logic for EVERY country then none would actually exist. I understand why one would argue that the British simply scammed the Arabs in WW1 but at the same time , you can’t argue that Israel shouldn’t exist because then you’d have to get rid of the people that are already there. A population that is WAY bigger than the Palestinian one , you’d do what you criticise.
If you really want to help Palestine, the best thing you could do is to cease all aid you're giving to Israel immediately, assuming you're giving them any, and then sanction them.
Frankly, this also goes for a lot of other Middle-Eastern conflicts and refugee crises as well. Israel is either directly or indirectly involved in many of them. Funny how that works, huh.
Saving Palestine means you won't have Palestinian refugees you fucking doofus. One of the solution your favorite state proposed was to ship Palestinians to Europe.
Aren’t the Palestinians completely shunned and hated by even their Arab neighbors like Egypt, Jordan, etc? If their own religious and ethnic kin hate them, why would we be different?
There were problems with the ukranian refugees as well in a lot of countries.
I think part of it is that most countries weren't structured around having so many dependants.
I have no problem accepting those in need but housing plan, as an example, did not account for the sudden population growth or were already behind and the number of refugees seeking relocation is starting to put a real strain on most economies
Saving the Palestine means staying in Palestine and having a safe regular life, not talking the people away from their birthplace in order not to get murdered. The things mentioned here are contradictory. The whole "oooh you state that you are not racist yet you don't let a foreign person punch in the face" is stupid. Other nations can still receive Palestinian refugees, but this defeats the whole purpose of helping people to live a normal life without having to migrate.
Pestinians attempted coups in: Jordan, Lebanon, Syria. Linked to Sadat's assasination (head of state for Egypt who made peace with Israel) and for the cherry on top supported Saddam's invasion WHILE KUWAIT HOSTED THEM.
This is like watching a war happen in the Balkans and being like "why won't Bosnia and Croatia take Serbian refugees?" There's so much beef in that area between every ethnic group/country that probably started 780 years ago and nobody has let it go. Also Egypt is second most in funding behind Israel they aren't gonna help Palestinians for shit.
lol how are you "saving Palestine" if you accept their refugees after Israel ethnically cleanses the territory? At best, you are "saving Palestinians" and not "Palestine." Those are two very different things
Andre_Type_0-@reddit
Ukraine refugees are smart, hard working whites with a Christian culture. I would love for them to come here. All others can stay where they are.
riiyoreo@reddit
Would've been an ok comment if you hadn't shoehorned skin colour into the point and become entirely racist in the process
Specific-Zucchini748@reddit
Its ok to be white
TheGuyWhoJustStated@reddit
it's not ok to think a group is better because they're white
Patrody@reddit
I mean, statistically...
ShinyArc50@reddit
Statistically white people are the biggest child molesters on the planet.
Patrody@reddit
Majority of the Middle East/Islamic people have something to say...or more importantly, something to do...
ShinyArc50@reddit
Per capita? I don’t think so.
Specific-Zucchini748@reddit
Lol Pakistan has entered the chat
Specific-Zucchini748@reddit
I dont care
Cry_Havock@reddit
How the hell did this not get downvoted to hell?
riiyoreo@reddit
This isn't your little playgroup mate
Cry_Havock@reddit
You might be responding to the wrong comment as I haven't mentioned any playgroup.
riiyoreo@reddit
Mhm. Why did you expect my reply to get downvoted?
Cry_Havock@reddit
Were one of the few Reddit subs That don't start crying the moment race is brought in. But I guess times are changing.
riiyoreo@reddit
The fact that my comment wasn't downvoted per your expectationis literal proof that people don't cry over race. Meanwhile you, on the contrary, commented the same thing twice.
Cry_Havock@reddit
Yeah as far as the commenting twice that one I actually don't have an answer for didn't even know that had happened until a little while ago.
Are you fairly new here? Many tears and comments have been shed about race. Hell we all dunk on Indians as a pastime here.
riiyoreo@reddit
Not new, but that's a sad thing to be bragging about.
Cry_Havock@reddit
Not bragging it's just a fact of life. Race has always been a pretty important topic here. And I'd feel comfortable to assume most feel That whites are the highest on the worthiness spectrum and the darker one is the lower they would be. I would say take a moment to read more comments on this particular post you'll find quite a few in agreement. I don't hate the others in fact I have nothing against them. But statistics don't lie.
riiyoreo@reddit
Sad and concerning way of thinking. Especially the last sentence, very ignorant.
Cry_Havock@reddit
I would say just a different way of thinking then you might be use too. It's why I asked if you were new here but if you're not then might I ask if you're a leftist/liberal?
mouthfullpeach@reddit
this is r slash greentext my guy
Cry_Havock@reddit
How the hell did this not get downvoted to hell?
riiyoreo@reddit
Why should it?
the_soviet_DJ@reddit
That’s the issue with people like this though, anti-immigrant people are almost always racist, or in bed with racists.
_Noble_One_@reddit
Work with a Ukrainian fella who’s a refugee. Awesome guy hard worker and several steps below what he did for a job in Ukraine but he’s insanely happy to be here and teach the younger guys.
katorias@reddit
Same experience at a software company
Andre_Type_0-@reddit
Thats been my exact experience too.
Prestigious-Fig1172@reddit
Slavs are based
ShinyArc50@reddit
Slavs have spent the last 40 years killing each other over Soviet scraps and saying “at least we’re white!” When you call out how animalistic they are
YanLibra66@reddit
"They hated him because he spoke the truth"
lastpieceofpie@reddit
Damn, people are entirely too comfortable talking like a Nazi.
Visible_Grocery4806@reddit
Muh nazis not allowing people with no skills and who are well known to not assimilate well into their countries how evil! Lets instead completly open the borders let everyone in and turn our cities into those like Mumbai all in the name of not being called a nazi on the internet.
BlazingFire007@reddit
Hey dumbass. He was called a nazi for bringing race into it.
Why do they have to be hard working white people with a Christian culture? Why not just hard working people with a Christian culture?
Visible_Grocery4806@reddit
Xenophobia and racism exist outside of nazism too. I hate when people throw around words like fascist or nazi while they have 0 idea what they even mean, they just saw something they consider bad and it instantly must be a nazi or a fascist.
I mean compare how people from middle east, Pakistan and africa integrate compared to for example ukrainians.
BlazingFire007@reddit
What’s the implication with the comparison?
I’m assuming you’re implying they commit more crimes, is that even true? I’m not so sure.
And even if it were, do you think that’s because of their skin color?
Visible_Grocery4806@reddit
Sure man you can just plainly ignore the rape gangs and so on you do you man, maybe you think its a good thing, all in the name if respecting minorities and not being racist right?
They come from vastly different cultures to ours. And the skin color is only relevant in that majority of white people a common culture based on christianity, while north africa, middle east and the indian subcintinent where the majority of these migrants come from are pretty islamic/hindu so already vastly different religious and societal norms. Then there is the fact that those societies are way more fundamentalistic compared to secular Europe. There is also the general backwardness of those regions too.
Bunstrous@reddit
Hmm, something makes me think it wasn't the "smart" or "hard working" qualifiers that made the other person point out the Nazi-like rhetoric.
Visible_Grocery4806@reddit
I dont think he actually knows who and what a nazi is, because the rheotirc was most definitely not nazi lol.
Funnyboyman69@reddit
So Christ like.
YetAnotherSpamBot@reddit
Not everyone is a christian, atheists can have a preference too
Funnyboyman69@reddit
We’re talking about Christian culture, nothing to do with your own views or preference.
YetAnotherSpamBot@reddit
I'm guessing it's because the Christian culture is probably perceived by many atheists as a more compatible option than other religions are.
Funnyboyman69@reddit
Are you sure? Sounds like you’d be more aligned with the Muslims who’re refusing to take in refugees.
YetAnotherSpamBot@reddit
I'm not saying that is what I think, I don't agree with that. I'm just saying that is probably what people think.
oll48@reddit
Fuck christ
buttgrapist@reddit
Possessed and hatepilled
Araeynn@reddit
I can get saying fuck christianity as a whole, but a political figure who quite literally did almost NOTHING wrong?
outland_king@reddit
Bro only saw the word "white" and immediately jumped to Nazi, ignoring the entire point
lastpieceofpie@reddit
The entire point of him talking like a Nazi or what?
In_Dust_We_Trust@reddit
calling someone white isn't racism you dumbo
Anonomohr@reddit
But making someone's skin color part of the argument is. But that's racist, not Nazism... The word is getting way too diluted lately.
lastpieceofpie@reddit
You don’t know what you’re saying. The western world is barreling towards nazism and they’re coming out of the woodwork all over the place. You just refuse to call a spade a spade.
Anonomohr@reddit
I'll call a spade a spade. I'm not going to call everything that's pointy or black a spade and I'm going to call out people who do because otherwise the spades will hide in plain sight since they're not being accurately singled out.
lastpieceofpie@reddit
And that’s a big reason why things are the way they are. Defending Nazis in the name of… what? Pedantry? It’s just so silly.
Anonomohr@reddit
I've never defended nazism and I never will. I am without a doubt a progressive liberal, but I'm not a reactionary idiot who overly generalizes while picking and choosing who can do what. Calling every idiot a Nazi will just equate nazism with idiocy, when it's far far worse than that. Things are the way they are in big part because the American left snubbed an imperfect alternative to evil, not because of people telling you not to call anything you don't like "nazi". You guys (assuming you're American) are the one who need to take a step back and reevaluate how you think, say and do things. Trump couldn't have gotten there without you.
lastpieceofpie@reddit
Liberals are the problem in this equation. They always do exactly this. Make excuses for why they must cozy up to Nazis to fend off the evil left.
Araeynn@reddit
> Pedantry
How tf was that pedantry? He wasn't defending nazis, he was saying that many people who are supposedly "nazis" aren't actually neonazis.
Trying to keep out a demographic that is not very likely to assimilate with your previous population is just common sense. If an island has 100 people, and you know that to most of them it is tradition to run around naked in public, are you going to let all of them or none of them into your country?
StreetGrape8723@reddit
Let me guess, you think Trumpism is fascism or that Trump’s a Nazi. This is despite the fact that Trump is empowering Israel, a famously Jewish state.
Anonomohr@reddit
Yes, I think Trump is an authoritarian fascist on the way to dictatorship. He's not a nazi, he's too self-serving to follow any concrete ideology, but he uses nazi ideals to coax his far/alt-right followers who are, in worrying proportion, actual neo-nazis.
lastpieceofpie@reddit
Trump is only concerned with furthering his own interests. He’s not an ideologically committed fascist. It’s a matter of convenience for him.
StreetGrape8723@reddit
He’s most closely aligned with right-wing populism, but he does have some authoritarian elements to him.
Spacewasser@reddit
You people have been calling every kind of shovel a spade for so long that the word spade has lost all meaning and impact
kira_joestar@reddit
Not a real Nazi. A real Nazi would never call a Ukrainian 'white'.
lastpieceofpie@reddit
Okay you got me there lol
ZiggussPSN@reddit
I mean the comment about them being white is racist at worst, but preferring to take in refugees that align with the existing culture of a country has nothing to do with Nazism? Not sure if you are ragebaiting or just ignorant?
Firebirdy95@reddit
I feel like if you ask the question "who is your ideal immigrant?" to people in China, Brazil, Russia, etc. they will more or less give you the same answer and say "people like me".
The "I punch Nazis" folks just enjoy going after low hanging fruit when that "people like me" answer comes from an average white guy living in the US.
DoorsToZeppelin@reddit
Everybody likes people similar to themselves. It's not a novel idea. Thing is though, the world is complicated. People move around. Things happen. So this close minded thinking of only wanting to be around people that are similar to you (or at least, perceived to be similar) actually does open the door to some pretty hateful dehumanization.
So the comment is not just racist, it is literally nazi shit. Or you can use fascism. The label matters little; the output is the same. They use things like "culture" as an excuse. "Those people are 'incompatable'" "They are not 'true' Germans" etc etc.
We got our own version of that as those that are "anti-American" which is ironic since this country is built off immigration. In the absence of real change that helps average people in any given country, it's a way to draw a common enemy for the masses to rally against so that those in power can say "See, it's not the government screwing you over, its those dang (insert "other" attribute) people!"
Povstnk@reddit
you say this as if choosing who should be let inside a country and punishing hateful people are two mutually exclusive things. They are not. You can punish racists who spread hateful nonsense, while also being picky in who should be let it. In fact, that's how a lot of countries work. A lot of countries require you to pass certain tests to be able to live/work in the country. Does this mean those countries are ruled by nazis?
DoorsToZeppelin@reddit
You see, the problem with that idea is that no government will subjectively choose who to let in based on something that's actually important, like safety. The "reasons" for not letting others into a country are fluid; they change at the whims of what is most convenient for the State.
But what is actually the right choice? If a criminal is escaping from their country for murdering people, for example, but they are a white Christian, should they be let in anyways? Under OP's idea of fair immigration, he might say yes, especially if that person killed someone that was not a Christian.
Even us deporting criminals is silly. If someone did a serious crime like murder, why should we just deport them to another country where they can just...do more murder? Wouldn't it be better to prosecute these people? (FYI we do. They don't just let immigrant murderers wander the streets lol, but the narrative is that we should deport)
lastpieceofpie@reddit
This is exactly right.
Zebulon_Gant@reddit
Bot behavior
AyFrancis@reddit
People dont want their country become a shithole like France or UK how is that correlated to being a nazi?
zenjin77@reddit
MicioBau@reddit
No need to be Christian. As long as they aren't Muslim or Hindu it's all good.
Cry_Havock@reddit
While being white is the primary requirement Christian is still necessary to preserve the nation. You let in enough non-christians and you'll eventually end up with inferior undesirables.
FeeblyBee@reddit
Christians are the undesirables in the most desirable countries to live in
Cry_Havock@reddit
Fucking libs
throwawaysledking1@reddit
majority of them are on onlyfans
Crimeislegal@reddit
Source?
Ratattack1204@reddit
Bro’s looking to goon to refugees lmao
throwawaysledking1@reddit
Bro i am not gooning. You are gooning.
Ratattack1204@reddit
We are all gooning on this blessed day.
throwawaysledking1@reddit
must be a good day
throwawaysledking1@reddit
if you know you know
Okboomer95@reddit
Fr like 40% of the recent porn being made is by Ukrainian women. Someone could make a very interesting documentary about how the war caused this to spike.
throwawaysledking1@reddit
What can I say? Nobody seems to be watching the porn space like me ig.
Ukrainian women → sudden cushy lives → no work permits → no way to pay for luxuries or tenancy → turning to porn on relatively new sites like onlyfans etc, promoting themselves everywhere on social media in hopes of striking it big
paper-machete56@reddit
Hur dur it's okay if it's white people but not okay if it's colored people
SaulGoldstein88@reddit
Thank you for having the balls to tell the truth.
colthesecond@reddit
Denmark did, they took in 321 Palestinian refugees, 64% of which proceeded to commit at least one serious crime
gaboom505@reddit
321 asylum seekers coming from Lebanon during the civil war
Also these were people convicted of a fine or jail time and it event counts case dismissals
These are important informations to mention when saying something like this
MrNoobFTW@reddit
How many normal people you know were even suspected of a crime in their lives?
LabCoatGuy@reddit
My uncle stabbed a guy
Fireball_Flareblitz@reddit
Thank you LabCoatGuy, very cool
LabCoatGuy@reddit
I wasn't clear that he's a normal guy who's successful.
Tiberius_Kilgore@reddit
Pretty much everyone is guilty of committing a minor crime at some point in their life. Parking illegally is a crime. Driving 10mph over the speed limit is a crime.
Edaimantis@reddit
I think literally every person I know has committed a misdemeanor of some kind
TheBestNick@reddit
You should probably meet some better people
Edaimantis@reddit
Yes because jay walking is certainly something that makes someone a bad person lmaooo yall neckbeard Redditors never cease to amaze me
TheBestNick@reddit
I read your post wrong, I thought you said "convicted of"
DigbyChickenZone@reddit
The crimes in that statistic includes traffic violations.
MrNoobFTW@reddit
I did the research, and I stand corrected. Around 20% were actually given a jail sentence, which is still not very good, but it's not the 64% that was claimed.
SleepingPodOne@reddit
I like this very obvious goalpost move that is also incredibly myopic
Damp_Truff@reddit
If we’re counting tickets as a crime, then probably literally anyone with a driver’s license. Did you forget people regularly go fifteen over the limit?
MrNoobFTW@reddit
But does it not say "serious crime"? Are those serious crimes?
AlexBondra@reddit
You realize it only says “serious crime” because that guy wrote it? Anyone can go on the internet and lie, kiddo.
marcusrider@reddit
That includes you kiddo.
Some_dutch_dude@reddit
Like, a speeding ticket? That's a crime. Filing your taxes too late? Crime. I suspect being a foreigner in a country and not speaking the language could get you in some trouble sooner or later.
ResponsibleFarmer396@reddit
most of them
EverydayGaming@reddit
The report from the Danish government
67 people who had suspended or actual jail sentences. 137 with fines/other punishments.
HugeFluffyRabbit@reddit
The total number of Palestinian refugees in Denmark is currently between 19,000 and 23,000. This Nigel Farage talking point you are parroting is based on one group of 321 stateless Palastinian refugees coming from Lebanon 1991. Their asylum requests were rejected, so around 70 of them began a 154-day church asylum protest in the basement of Blågårds Kirke in Copenhagen. This protest led to the passage of a special law in 1992 that ultimately granted residency to the entire group. The protest drew significant attention and support from Danish activists, artists, and politicians, including former Prime Minister Anker Jørgensen.
A 2019 report by the Danish Ministry of Immigration and Integration found that a high percentage of the original group, particularly those below retirement age, were receiving welfare benefits or early retirement pensions, often granted for severe physical or mental issues. This suggested long-term difficulties with finding and maintaining employment."
SEVERE PHYSICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. Gee, I wonder what could have happened to them?
Collective and continuous trauma: For many Palastinian refugees in Lebanon, the "post" in Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) does not apply because the threat never fully subsides. This has led some mental health experts to describe the ongoing mental health crisis as a "Continuous Traumatic Stress Disorder" (CTSD).
Studies of Palestinian and Syrian refugees in Lebanon show extremely high rates of anxiety, depression, and PTSD. The trauma is compounded by current hardships, such as poverty, lack of access to healthcare, and persistent discrimination. For the group that came to Denmark in 1991, this background of severe and ongoing trauma provided the context for their later struggles with integration and well-being.
Waswat@reddit
Why is this a copy/paste post from another user. Are you guys brigading?
EverydayGaming@reddit
No. I clicked his post since I appreciated the fact that he came with receipts. Figured I'd post the results from that link, since you Hamas supporters don't like reading.
Nice try though. "Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot" and whatnot. Yep, seen that before.
Waswat@reddit
So you literally copy pasted it because you agreed and responded with the same text on the same post?
Why not just respond to the original with an extra comment like a normal person would?
Jackm941@reddit
And yeah when you take in people fleeing a warzone who's lives have been destroyed, possibly have no friends of family, no possessions etc etc they might not be in the best state of mental health. Hell look at soldiers who signed up for it coming back and being addicts or being violent. People with stable safe living conditions are not as less likely to commit crime and the opposite is also true. Easy to blame immigrants rather than take a minute to ask why that might be the case.
SpaceshipEarthCrew@reddit
Great, let them move to your country. Give your right wing parties electoral success in the next election.
Electronic_Eye6499@reddit
Do you know the stats for their children? I guess a simple search about it would give you enough proof as to the flawed asylum seeker immigration model.
onarainyafternoon@reddit
So basically everything the dude said is bullshit?
Still-Theme4314@reddit
Nope because someone can have a nation of birth but be ethnically & culturally different from their nationality. Legally they're Lebanese, culturally they're Palestinian.
Even if all those cases were dismissed that still meant that they were suspected of commiting crimes at a statistically higher rate than other populations in the area.
GreenEggsInPam@reddit
The report from the Danish government
Superkritisk@reddit
As I remember it, the Black September conflict in Jordan is one of the main reasons neighboring countries became reluctant to accept large numbers of Palestinian refugees, they saw how destabilizing it could be.
Might be I am wrong, but that's the way I remember it.
supertinykoalas@reddit
100% my family is from Jordan and my grandma told me about this. “How can we trust them when we open our homes and they murder our king?”
_bassGod@reddit
Wasn't that almost a century ago? I get that the event was a tragedy and I can understand how it would leave a bad taste in one's mouth, but I don't really understand how that applies here.
Like my ancestors owned slaves, doesn't mean I'm pro-slavery. There's nothing inherent about being Palestinian that makes one prone to crime.
supertinykoalas@reddit
No it happened in the 70s
_bassGod@reddit
King Abdullah? He was assassinated in 1951. Or are you referring to something else?
-WGE-FierceDeityLink@reddit
Prime Minister Wasfi Tal was assassinated in 1971 during the Black September conflict.
supertinykoalas@reddit
Yeah my grandma’s English is not the best, and she did mean the PM and not the king. I should have clarified in my original comment that she did mean the PM and not the king
_bassGod@reddit
Damn y'all do be having a lot of leaders getting offed by Palestinians. I get why you'd harbor some resentment.
It still feels like a weird stretch to me to assume that applies to Palestinians inherently though, and isn't just a biproduct of the sociopolitical tensions of the region.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
Didn't your country and king illegally annex the west bank and oppressed them? And they were "Jordanians" at the time? If a king mistreats his subjects he should expect revolution.
Stop whitewashing your country's actions. Only three countries even recognized your illegal annexation, people just forgot after 1967 because of Israel but you were the first tyrant against the west bank
supertinykoalas@reddit
You realize that happened during the Arab-Israeli conflict in 1948, and actual annexation happened in 1950. The naturalized Palestinians actually got half of the Parliament seats. In 1948 the Palestinians had two choices, to let the new settlers take their country or go to Jordan.
Also homie, I am white. Idk what the hell you’re talking about when it comes to whitewashing. It’s like you’re using words but don’t know the meanings of…
Constant_Ad7225@reddit
Or they could’ve gotten independence but that wasn’t on the table apparently
supertinykoalas@reddit
Sadly it wasn’t. The Brits had the power over the Mandate of Palestine, and well unfortunately we know where that’s lead us.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
Oh yeah, such an important position on the Parliament. It's a fucking monarchy, Palestinians couldn't secede, and the king had the final say on everything. Again, you're whitewashing your country's actions to justify racism
nyan_eleven@reddit
whitewashing means to minimise or cover up something such as a crime or other atrocities. it comes from applying whitewash which is used to paint walls white.
supertinykoalas@reddit
Thank you for the clarification and doing in a kind manner! 🖤
Constant_Ad7225@reddit
You didn’t “open your homes” you annexed the West Bank, your shitty monarch can rest in piss
supertinykoalas@reddit
You get that the choice for Palestine at that point was either to become Israel or Jordan. Which nation gave them half of parliament? I’ll give you a guess, it wasn’t Israel. Which nation continued to take in refugees into them, and yes they got to move into Jordan proper and were given citizenship. Jordan went to war for Palestine. How do they repay the Jordanians? Slaughter their king and attempt to throw them into the same instability they threw Lebanon and Syria into. Is the Jordanian monarchy perfect? Nope but you can blame the British and French governments
Constant_Ad7225@reddit
Where’s the option for Palestinian independence? Just because Jordan thinks they’re being kind and defending Palestine from Israel doesn’t give them the right to force them to be apart of Jordan.
Imagine if when Russia invaded Ukraine Poland came to there defence and a couple years later try to annex Ukraine, then when the Ukrainians try to push back against that and push for independence again the Poland says “it us or the Russians!” It’s not a real choice is it?
If you think the reason Lebanon and Syria are unstable is because of Palestinians then you might have a case of Palestinian derangement syndrome. Lebanon had to deal with invasion from Israel, Syria, America and Isis, they had deal with ethnic and religious conflict between Sunnis, Shias, and Christian’s, Syria had to deal with Assad and the civil war, Isis, and American, British, turkish, gulf, Iran and Russian intervention
and somehow it’s those mean Palestinians who we’re inconsiderately kicked out of their homes and forced into Lebanon that are the problem
supertinykoalas@reddit
There wasn’t one. The brits weren’t going to let that happen you understand that right? I agree that what has happened has been completely unjust and unfair to the Palestinians people.
Nice false equivalency!
None of these countries exist until the French and English decided to fuck up the entire Middle East after the fall of Ottoman Empire. If you think that trying to usurp a struggling nation governments would make an unstable government safer than your wrong it only worsens the instability.
Constant_Ad7225@reddit
And that’s part of the problem! Ultimately that’s what the Palestinians wanted and it wasn’t on the table
Do you have an evidence to back up that it was the Brits who wouldn’t let that happen? Because to me it’s seems like Israel and the Hashemites were the ones that weren’t going to let that happen, considering that they actually thought against that happening.
How is it a false equivalency? Seriously it’s just a hypothetical comparison.
The Hashemites were part of that instability, they were holding onto to this idea of the West Bank remaining part of Jordan that obviously wasn’t going to happen, the Palestinians in the west bank didn’t want it, most Jordanians didn’t particularly want the West Bank to part of Jordan but they’re leaders clearly did, it just wasn’t something that was going to last and be stable. Maybe they were doing that on behalf of the British maybe they were doing it on their own accord maybe they were doing on behalf of the Israelis, maybe a mix of the three, who knows, the cause of the problem doesn’t really change the effect it had on the Palestinians
jonatna@reddit
This is interesting to read. I know that Jordan accepted refugees and a large population within Jordan is Palestinian but I wasn't knowledgeable about what happened after.
Brilliant-Tip9445@reddit
did everyone clap as well?
supertinykoalas@reddit
Sorry that people develop trust issues with others when they try usurp someone else’s government 🤷🏻♀️
Brilliant-Tip9445@reddit
oh no not our glorious king
supertinykoalas@reddit
Again Jordan has been one of the most stable countries in the Middle East since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Sorry people like stability in their nation
Brilliant-Tip9445@reddit
Good job being stable when funded by the west; I assume Saudi Arabia needs to be praised then
supertinykoalas@reddit
Being stable is better than being in a civil war like Lebanon or Syria that has results in countless civilian deaths. Is Jordan perfect? Nope! Never said it was
Brilliant-Tip9445@reddit
Are we jerking off Dubai and Saudi Arabia the same way?
DroppedPJK@reddit
The type of person who thinks if it isn't perfect its trash lol.
So naive.
iwishmynamewasparsa@reddit
Muh British comprador king
Ultionisrex@reddit
Palestinians should stick to growing olives. Seems to be the only thing they won't fuck up until their generational trauma gets weened out.
supertinykoalas@reddit
Absolutely irrelevant to the fact Jordan opened its doors to the refugees and they attempted a coup. It would still destabilise their nation. Sorry people like having a stable nation and Jordan has been doing very well with their kings
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Also the fact that Palestinians essentially colonized southern Lebanon 50 years ago and have used it as a staging ground for attacks against Israel ever since, which is why Lebanon is the way it is today.
Also the fact that Gazans kept trying to overthrow the relatively secular Egyptian government and replace it with an Islamic extremist government that wages perpetual war against Israel, which is why Egypt closed its border with Gaza and built a giant border wall in 2009.
Also the fact that when Sadaam invaded Kuwait the Palestinian refugees in Kuwait supported Sadaam, which is why Kuwait expelled all of its Palestinian refugees after the Gulf War.
the_capibarin@reddit
It's almost as if, generally, they agree with actual terrorists they have elected, and aspire to wipe Israel and jews off the face of the planet in the name of a fundamentalist cause - but Reddit loves them regardless!
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is so, so easy to say when you're an entire ocean away from the "freedom fighters".
If Native Americans started using Hamas tactics against US civilians, does anyone think that the pro-Hamas left would say "It's justified because they have a right to resist colonialism and reclaim their stolen land by any means necessary"?
the_capibarin@reddit
I'm unironically sure some idiot from some other state would see it exactly like this and start wearing feathers in solidarity with the brave opressed
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Until it started affecting them and their community of course. Then suddenly their mindset would change, because that's how narcissism works.
"Bad things are only bad if they affect ME, personally."
menquerts_@reddit
how does that bibi cock taste?
Sugar-North@reddit
Ya’ll support terrorists, cry less.
menquerts_@reddit
don't speak with your mouth full bot
AnanasAvradanas@reddit
I know they are getting paid to suck Zionist cock, but seems like they find it fun too.
Sugar-North@reddit
HAMAS and the people that support it can rest in piss.
StormOfFatRichards@reddit
I mean yea, this isn't a groundbreaking intellectual approach, this is a difficult problem people have run into in critical analysis. The complex interaction of theory and realization. In theory, most people agree that force is either perfectly justified or the lesser evil, when it comes to an oppressed group taking back their claim. In realization, the process of force has to have losers, and no one wants to be the loser because who wants to just die? Human values of justice and morality often come in clash with basic animal concerns like survival.
The only everyone-wins solution is peaceful resolution, but whenever you bring that up people will attack you because such approaches bring slow resolution, it's idealist, it's insulting to people who suffer ongoing deprivations, etc. That's why there's no easy resolution to any international or civil conflict, and anyone who makes this witty little offhand remarks about NIMBYs is just contributing more noise than actually resolving the discussion.
ChancellorPalpameme@reddit
NIMBYs strike again
PenguinProfessor@reddit
oppressed Braves
von_Roland@reddit
I mean the Indian removal act was largely because the Native American tribes in the southern states would not stop raiding American settlements, and there are people today that call that chapter of American history evil, senselessly violent and cruel. While we may have been able to handle the situation better and I don’t agree with Andrew jackson, I do think you would have people supporting a violent native cause on the same grounds, because they support its historical examples
Gravesh@reddit
I would argue it was kind of fucked up forcing the Cherokee out of the SE US. They were a cohesive nation that basically settled down and was like "you know, the Europeans have some good ideas" and sided with American settlers against other tribes and effectively Westernized themselves, living as homesteaders and developing their own written language, had schools and adopted Christianity and practiced slavery.
In a bizarre coincidence, the Indian Removal Act began less than a year after gold was found on Cherokee land, which would become known as the Georgia Gold Rush.
von_Roland@reddit
Oh yeah that was fucked but I’m not saying Indian removal wasn’t fucked a number of ways all I am saying is that there were arguments for doing so at the time that weren’t blind racism
Dalthariel@reddit
This is why Andrew Jackson was so popular with the people of his time. He kept trying to deal with the tribes and they kept breaking their word so he said Fuck It and deported them all. It's easy to see him as a bad guy now, but if you read the history he was actually pretty reasonable.
parker_fly@reddit
That was a factor, but balancing the budget, paying off the national debt, and killing the SBUS probably had at least as much to do with it.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Yes, they support it when it happened in the past, to other people.
But their tune would quickly change if it was them and their friends and their family getting raped and murdered, rather than other people who lived 200 years ago.
wordjedi@reddit
That's pretty much the plot of Red Dawn except it's American white people fighting against Soviet/Mexican/Cuban occupiers
lufan132@reddit
Tbh that there's no homeland for the roma nor queer people despite also being persecuted in the Holocaust is why I think Israel is a bad idea.
I'm trans and I want my state already.
Dr_Philmon@reddit
Isn't that also what ICE and the MAGA crowd is doing no?
twitchy_and_fatigued@reddit
I think it'd be more accurate if it was the Natives buying more land back for themselves to reclaim their land and then the non natives started using Hamas methods
Scared-Opportunity28@reddit
Honestly both have a ancestral right to the land, it's just both hate each other and can't get along
twitchy_and_fatigued@reddit
Yeah it overall just sucks. I blame the governments, not the people
Salamadierha@reddit
Some of them would, we know that'd happen.
Guner100@reddit
They would. They would say that. They aren't liberals, they just hate the West and anything West, and attribute all evils of the world to the West.
Guner100@reddit
They would. They would say that. They aren't liberals, they just hate the West and anything West, and attribute all evils of the world to the West.
The_Nude_Mocracy@reddit
Is the "pro-Hamas left" in the room with us now?
Shadow_of_wwar@reddit
Makes me think of King Phillip's war (1673-1678). It was an extremely brutal total war on both sides, actually being the deadliest war per capita in American history
StormOfFatRichards@reddit
I don't think most redditors cared about Palestine at all until more and more accounts of civilian damages were made public
Anyashadow@reddit
Considering what Israel has done to them for generations, of course they are furious and want them all dead. Israel has broken every agreement and has proven they can't be trusted, so why try? Hatred runs deep. I saw it several times when I was in the military, how countries run roughshod over their neighbors and ruin their lives. It's real easy to judge when we've never been in that situation.
wilfinator420@reddit
Yo hive mind downvotes me too for agreeing with this comment wholeheartedly! Are you guys part of Israel’s social media campaign to push their talking points or do you do it for free lol?
Dalthariel@reddit
For free. I always downvote terrorist sympathizers.
Weener69@reddit
Palestinians have hated Jews since before Israel even existed this is nothing new. In fact Amin al-Husseini who was one of the leaders of mandatory Palestine was a nazi collaborator.
Scared-Opportunity28@reddit
Back in the '80s they tried to solve the whole thing with a peace deal and the representative for the Palestinians walked out of the discussion
Smurtle01@reddit
What if, hear me out, the deal completely shafted the Palestinians? They don’t have much leverage in the discussions; it would be easy as hell for Israel to propose deals that were super beneficial to them, then paint Palestine as evil when they backed out.
Same thing happens in Ukraine/russia, and even US govt and one side throwing random extra shit into a super important and necessary bill to try and push it through or otherwise make the other party look bad for not passing the necessary bill.
Scared-Opportunity28@reddit
The deal was, the Israeli representative outright ask them what they would like in exchange for peace, the Palestinian representative said the Jews out and left. They didn't want peace.
AnanasAvradanas@reddit
So it's totally fine to use US taxpayers money to genocide an entire nation by starving its babies and bombing their hospitals. Yes.
Czech---Meowt@reddit
I don’t think it would be any better if Palestinians were in control of Israel, but you can’t justify the actual genocide of one group with imagined potential genocide if circumstances magically reversed…. In short, Israel bad.
SilliusS0ddus@reddit
Egypt was secular ?
2009miles@reddit
Gee, i wonder how they ended up there and why they'd want to attack Israel.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Same reason why they want to attack Jordan, and Egypt, and Kuwait along with Lebanon and Israel.
Because they are Islamic extremists/Arab ultranationalists.
2009miles@reddit
Wonder why those conflicts mostly came about from the 1940's on.
They mostly lived in peace, Muslims, Christians and Jews, before the Zionist movement came around. Every region had their historical conflicts but pretending like Israel isn't a major source of conflict in the region for the past century is just not accepting reality.
whosdatboi@reddit
1st - you are ignoring spurts of violence like expulsions and local pogromswhich litter the history of the Ottoman Empire.
2nd - There was a kind of peace but the Jim Crow South also had "peace". Jews and Christians could live in the Ottoman Empire with Muslim neighbours, but they had to live as 2nd class citizens, with fewer rights, varying by time.
2009miles@reddit
Because i wasn't talking about that era at all.
Kind of how the Palestinians live today in Israel? Not to mention the West Bank or Gaza, i mean Israel proper.
whosdatboi@reddit
You said
So when you say
I have to assume you don't know what you're talking about because the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1908 and Palestine was controlled by a Turkish Empire until 1916, after Zionism had already gotten a bit popular.
We can criticize the actions of Israel without relying on historical revision to simplify the conflict.
2009miles@reddit
You are correct, i was imprecise with my timeline, sorry about that.
At the same time, this doesn't invalidate my point that in that region, before Zionist goals were clearly being worked toward, there was a mostly peaceful coexistence of people. This coexistence is still visible in the West Bank and Gaza, where Christians live and practice their faith freely.
The issue wasn't a religious one, it was an invasive force one, they just so happened to be of a particular religion.
Unfortunately this is very true, you don't need to simplify anything in order to view the systematic ethnic cleansing process that has been ongoing for close to 80 years now, even leading to instances of full on genocide such as what has been going on in Gaza for the past two years.
whosdatboi@reddit
We wouldn't apply this label to any other power imbalance. In the grand dynamic, there was no war between peoples and so actual spurts of enormous violence were sparse, but the threat of violence was always present for those with 2nd class identities.
The history of the Ottoman Empire is full of model minority beurocrats who rise to great heights, only to be killed by a racist mob, mostly with the implicit consent of the government, when something like a harvest fails.
2009miles@reddit
This applied to basically anywhere in the world at some point in history, many places even today, including Israel.
Same as the prior statement, this is applicable in a huge number of regions and eras. What happened to Rabin in 1995 when the harvest of land was going to fail?
I understand the want for self-governance, the issue is when you have to complete an incredibly violent process of ethnic cleansing to achieve that and the victims of that process weren't even a particularly big part of the historic issues Jewish people lived. You can't ignore that either.
750.000 displaced and thousands killed during the Nakba.
Easily over 67.000 dead in the past two years, with a huge percentage of them being children.
An entire population that lives for the past 80 years without right to govern themselves, despite multiple attempts to achieve just that, having to go day by day with an Israeli boot on their neck.
Why do they have to foot the bill for every Jewish persecution in the past when they literally fought alongside the British during WW2 to help free them?
whosdatboi@reddit
This is largely untrue. If anything the Palestinian political leader, or Mullah, was very chummy with Hitler.
It was not necessary, which is why Jewish leadership acceptyhe initial partition plan that would allow for a Jewish state with up to 40% of the population as Arab Muslims. The intafada followed the subsequent civil war when Muslim leaders rejected the deal.
2009miles@reddit
"During WWII about 12,000 Palestinian Arabs volunteered to serve in the British army. These volunteers participated actively in battles in North Africa and Europe. Many of them lost their lives, others were wounded, and many are still missing. It is interesting that despite this vital contribution of the Palestinian people and their leadership in the war against the Nazis, especially among the opposition parties, the attention of historians has been mostly directed toward the meeting held between the Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler."
"The Israeli strategy in 1948 of “maximum land and a fewer Arabs” partly explains the survival of a Palestinian minority within the Green Line, equivalent to 13 percent of the population in 1949 — a figure that has risen today to 20 percent of Israel's population.](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654742)"
The first intifada started in the late 80's while the Nakba, which resulted in the driving out of over 750.000 Palestinians and the murder of thousands and the left over percentage of Palestinians as indicated above happened between late 1947 and 1948.
whosdatboi@reddit
Your first link does not dispute what I said.
It also states: " This massive support for the Nazi war effort by the leader of the Palestinian Arabs, for which he narrowly escaped postwar prosecution by the Allies, overshadows the thousands of (mainly opposition) Palestinian Arabs who defied their leader and took up arms against the Nazis—often shoulder to shoulder with the much more numerous young Jews from Mandatory Palestine who did so. "
Your source literally says that those volunteers were overshadowed by the Arab political support for Hitler in Palestine.
However, yeah now it's my turn to looK stupid. Instead of "Intafada" I should have said Naqba.
2009miles@reddit
In the quote i added it even mentions that, no point in acting like it's a gotcha or something i didn't read about.
My point wasn't that the leadership wasn't doing self-preserving moves that weren't on the right side of history, moreso that the people that later got displaced by the Zionists even went against the will of their leader, with over 12.000 of them fighting for the freedom of the Jewish people in Nazi occupied territories.
You know how sad it is knowing the people you fought for, even if your leadership didn't, later destroyed your people's way of life?
Yeah, happens. Still, while there were some more left-leaning and moderate voices within the Zionist movement, what actually happened was that close to 90% of the people who lived within a massive part of Palestine were ethnically cleansed from their lands, their homes destroyed, their physical history wiped.
whosdatboi@reddit
Ok I see your point about the volunteers, their suffering in the Naqba is definitely the most bitter.
What I'm not understanding is why we need to tell these stories about how everyone lives happily together when that is only true with the most surface level analysis of how people lived? Non-Muslims lived as second class citizens. That may be vastly preferable to not being tolerated at all, which could be the case under Christian dominance, but that doesn't mean their experience is somehow no longer one of oppression and sectarianism.
2009miles@reddit
As you point out, they had it considerably worse in Europe, also living as second class citizens in cordoned off areas which they were segregated to, with less religious freedom, many pogroms, expulsions and other tragic events all over the continent. I can speak for this all happening in my own country.
When compared to that, they did live a better life in places like Palestine up until the Zionist movement came about, which is the point i was making at the start.
That movement, the tension it caused and violence inherently necessary to achieve their goals was always going to lead to an unstable country, but more than that it lead to an entirely unstable region.
Who's to say that if the Zionists had been able to live in peace with the Palestinians and have a equitable share of land thy bought that we wouldn't today be seeing in that region the same we see in other Muslim majority countries like Turkey? After all, you can still see today Palestinians being accepting of Christians even in Gaza where tensions are sky high, let alone the West Bank.
whosdatboi@reddit
Ok, but my contention is that you're denying the very real appeals for rights among 2nd class citizens of the Muslim world and chalking up all this animosity to the Zionist movement. You're in effect denying the oppression of Jews in the Dhimmi system.
A tolerant society like that of the Ottoman Empire is better than a society that is intolerant of minorities, but the tolerant Turkish Empire or the Arab Empires that preceded it were fundamentally exclusionary towards these minorities, who to varying degrees were not able to participate in public life as a normal citizen. They were constrained to ghettos, forced to wear distinctive clothing such as yellow stars, and were barred from the Justice System.
Such a society is able to suppress violence so people live in peace, but I would not say that it is a just society.
whosdatboi@reddit
Ok I see your point about the volunteers, their suffering in the Naqba is definitely the most bitter.
What I'm not understanding is why we need to tell these stories about how everyone lives happily together when that is only true with the most surface level analysis of how people lived? Non-Muslims lived as second class citizens. That may be vastly preferable to not being tolerated at all, which could be the case under Christian dominance, but that doesn't mean their experience is somehow no longer one of oppression and sectarianism.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Because post-WW2 decolonization led to the rise of a lot of ultranationalist movements, Arab nationalism being just one of them.
Yeah about that...
https://sephardicu.com/sephardic-history/history-of-muslim-jewish-conflicts/
They "mostly lived in peace" (as long as you ignore the extensive history of violence).
2009miles@reddit
People wanted their land, where they lived for centuries, to be a nation that is recognized internationally. Is that a issue for you?
I like how you send me a general history of Jewish/Muslim conflicts, which nobody is denying happened, and try to pin that on the people from the specific region i am referring to. Classy.
There were conflicts all over the world. Africa, Asia, Europe, etc., many of these were due to religious or ideological differences. Do all the countries that lived through that history and last to this day somehow become open to be colonized by external forces now because they did not always live in peace?
djlatigo@reddit
I once read something that (whether) Iran could get a nuclear weapon, they wouldn't use it against Israel, but against rival/enemy Muslim countries".
2009miles@reddit
Iran has been days from having nuclear weapons for over 30 years, according to Israel.
H4R4MBAE@reddit
Yikes, looks like worldnews ziobots spilled over into this sub.
Its always interesting how history becomes reshaped whenever a zionist speaks, and you’ll see what I mean in a second.
“Palestinians colonised lebanon” - After the arab israeli war, the mass displacement of Palestinians caused them to land in various surrounding countries as refugees, with one of them being lebanon. No citizenship, no property, no work.
To zionists, this is OBVIOUSLY colonisation (but they wont see it in their own history for sure haha). lets put some more context in - The tensions were due to lebanons fragile sectarian balance (christian/muslim). the israel palestine conflict spilling over with palestinian refugees entering didnt help it at all. The lebanese civil war was caused by a complex mix of sectarian, political, and foreign interventions (This includes PLO activities, but as zionists we love collective punishment!). The region was entirely devastated by Israel, which is obviously an ignored fact by our well-educated commenter here.
“Egypt” There is absolutely 0 historical records of gazans trying to overthrow egypt. the border closure was due to lobbying from Israel and the US in order to isolate Hamas, who were ideologically aligned with the egyptian muslim brotherhood (Domestic rivals of the egyptian government). So to break it down, it was a political containment, not a coup (Really, where does this come from????)
“The Palestinians in kuwait supported saddam so they got expelled”
There was upto around 400k Palestinians already having lived there for decades before the Iraqi invasion. the PLO supported Saddam hussein, but despite many Palestinians being against the invasion, Kuwait exercised collective punishment on nearly all of them. But we know that zionists and collective punishment are like two balls in a ballsack.
Przedrzag@reddit
The Kuwaiti one, at least, isn’t quite true, as Saddam arrested 5,000 Palestinians who helped the Kuwaiti resistance and half of the Palestinians who eventually left had done so before Kuwait’s liberation.
Yasser Arafat definitely didn’t help things, though.
Constant_Ad7225@reddit
Oh no those evil mean Balestinians did Unwholesome things to the hecking wholesome British puppet monarch who annexed their land/s
In all seriousness the only mistake Palestinians made was not destroying the monarchy permanently
OXBDNE7331@reddit
This also happened in Lebanon and Egypt when they accepted refugees
FlatulentSon@reddit
I thought that the whole point of "free Palestine" was to make sure Palestinians could remain and live in their native Palestine, so it doesn't really seem contradictory for people who support this idea to not want to accept their refugees.
I mean.. the whole point of the movement is to make Palestine livable for Palestinians so they can live there.
Hell, doesn't wanting to take Palestinians out of their homeland and spread them all over the world seem like the exact opposite of the "Free Palestine" movement?
JustDontBeFat_GodDam@reddit
“Free Palestine” means they want all non-Muslims evicted from Israel by any means necessary, and the entirety of Israel granted to Palestinians/Hamas. It is not an option.
Guner100@reddit
You're down voted, but this is literally what the movement claims to want. "From the river to the sea"
xinorez1@reddit
The funny thing is Israel also says from the river to the sea but apparently it's anti semitic to notice that
EduHi@reddit
The thing is that a ton of other groups like Muslims, Christians, Beduins and Druzes already live in Israel with no issues, and can do their lives with the same freedom of Jewish citizens (just Muslims alone represent the 20% of Israel's population).
So, an Israel "from the river to the sea" is not that menacing (specially when is not a general sentiment there in Israel).
Meanwhile, a Palestine "from the river to the sea" not only imply the expulsion or extermination of Jews, but also of other groups as well, including Muslims from "the wrong denomination".
1917fuckordie@reddit
Gaza and WB also has Christians and different ethnic groups. Also plenty of non Jews in Israel claim they are not treated equally.
It's also absurd to claim its not menacing for Israel to claim the whole of Palestine because.... they have 20% Muslim population. In what world does that make Israel's threats of stealing more territory less sinister? Why do Zionists act like having an Arab minority means anything?
All territory from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean is historically Palestinian territory, if you think that means Jews need to be expelled it's because you're an ethno supremacist and only recognise the rights and humanity of one group. The quote has nothing to do with Islam, or any division within Palestinian communities.
Guner100@reddit
Saying Gaza has Christians and Jews is like saying Ruzzia has Ukrainians: yes, but they have to be terrified of being killed for who they are.
1917fuckordie@reddit
Yes, they're terrified of Israel killing them, that's life for anyone living in Gaza.
1917fuckordie@reddit
"...Palestine will be free", not Muslim Palestinians or Arab Palestinians, but all Palestinians.
Guner100@reddit
"A county led by the religion that very openly advertises that it has a right to kill people who don't believe in it will be fair and respectful to people not of that religion"
1917fuckordie@reddit
Islam doesn't permit killing non Muslims. You know when Hamas ran for government in Gaza they did it with Christian Palestinians on their ticket. Christian and Muslim Palestinians have a very close and respectful relationship. Israelis spit on Christians regularly.
BigBlueBurd@reddit
For those not familiar, the river is the Jordan, and the Sea is the Mediterranean.
_Mistwraith_@reddit
Precisely which asshole are you pulling these statistics out of?
casey-primozic@reddit
This whole comment chain is some IDF grade psy ops shit
Benaholicguy@reddit
It’s not a psy op. This is just evidence that you haven’t seen before about an incredibly complex issue.
casey-primozic@reddit
lmao
Altruistic-Ticket290@reddit
Source?
romulusnr@reddit
Fun fact: this is partisan bullshit.
64% committed some illegal act...
...Over the course of 24 years
By no means were 64% of them "serious crimes." The majority were minor fines or resulted in warnings.
Meanwhile, in one year alone, in Denmark, about 10% of all Danish committed crimes. In one year. Sheesh, by ten years, everyone's committed a crime in Denmark! They should really kick out all those (checks notes) Danish criminals from Denmark amirite
Nearby-Gur-4739@reddit
me when i spread misinformation in the funny green words subreddit
JigsawLV@reddit
Mossad brigading here in full force I see
HugeFluffyRabbit@reddit
Source, please?
MeBustYourKneecaps@reddit
In their defense, it's quite likely they needed a home, so... they got themselves put in jail.
Not like the refugees being "accepted" guaranteed them an actual life
Plembert@reddit
Nice context bro. It was a specific subgroup of asylum seekers who had previously had their application denied. 64% were convicted for things including traffic violations. 11.5% of the convicted actually saw jail time.
r/greentext chuds really out here translating “a minority of randos who weren’t accepted the first time around but wound up getting in anyway ended up committing some crimes” into “Palestinians Will Eat Your Skin!!”
snipdockter@reddit
The OP, anIsraeli bot giving misinformation on Reddit? And being upvoted by a bunch of low value accounts? What is the world coming to?
sa_sa_ke@reddit
Wow can’t believe people are telling racist lies on the greentext subreddit
095805@reddit
Misinformation? On my internet?
Amazing-Cool@reddit
“Jarvis, view profile description in case of potential biases”
colthesecond@reddit
"what side would you like your facts to be"
HRSkull@reddit
Me when I spread misinformation for no reason
mister-fancypants-@reddit
wow that’s pretty wild.. what kind of crimes? what causes that to happen? i’m assuming it’s a higher rate than refugees from other countries?
RandomGopnik03@reddit
He's over exaggerating. The "crimes" are stuff like traffic tickets.
DigbyChickenZone@reddit
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/59078/did-denmark-report-that-64-of-palestinian-refugees-from-1992-received-serious-f
jonasnee@reddit
We took way more than that. the 321 people where those who got rejected, then occupied a church and have then became the reason why no one wants more immigration from the middle east.
Personal-Barber1607@reddit
Yeah you got to get your women and feminine men under control toxic femininity and narcissistic empathy is a fuck around and find out phenomena.
You need to harden your heart I'm tired of my country supporting either one of those two cunts. I'm about ready to expel every single member advocating for either side from my country. Trillions of dollars wasted on holy wars supported by fundamentalist abrahamic religions, I'm done you want to save your holy land load up a gun and I'll take you all over there the streets can run with blood while my streets are clean and blood free. You want to send a billion to Israel open your own damn pocket book.
Idgf about ukraine, israel, Lebanon, europe, asia, or anyone else fuck em. If your more focused on what's going on in the desert 2000 miles away go there and fuck off.
Ozuge@reddit
Anon doesn't realise the whole ass point is for Palestinians to be able to live in *their* homes.
World_In_The_Door@reddit
No, Ukrainians aren't.
Halolavapigz@reddit
If they stopped getting bombed, maybe they wouldn’t be seeking refuge elsewhere
Reapercore@reddit
Just ask Jordan what happened when they took in refugees from Palestine.
IM_REFUELING@reddit
Or Egypt
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
Literally wtf even happened in Egypt, Palestinians never did anything here. Only ever coup that Palestinians were a major player in was black September
ElonTaco@reddit
Muslim Brotherhood
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
The group started in Egypt by Egyptians? You're seriously blaming Palestine for that?
supertinykoalas@reddit
There’s actually an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood is very active. You may have heard of them before. Hamas.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
How does that even begin to mean that Palestinians overthrew the Egyptian government at any time
supertinykoalas@reddit
That part doesn’t… but it doesn’t change the fact that the Palestinians still did try to overthrow Egypt and that Hamas is a part of the Muslim Brotherhood
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
When do you even think this happened, I'm Egyptian and I can say confidently that it never did
supertinykoalas@reddit
I tried to look it up, and I’m a big enough person to admit I was wrong. I thought when Egypt and refused the refugees together that Egypt had their own black September. My question for you then is why didn’t you guys take any Palestinian refugees this time around?
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
We did take in 100k, you just like speaking out if your ass
supertinykoalas@reddit
Nope
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/trumps-idea-to-have-egypt-and-jordan-take-in-palestinian-refugees-falls-flat-with-arab-allies
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
How Gaza displacement could deepen Egypt’s already unbearable refugee burden | Arab News
How Are Palestinians in Gaza Fleeing to Egypt?
Report: Some 115,000 Gazans have crossed into Egypt since start of war | The Times of Israel
In Egypt, Palestinian evacuees from Gaza live in the shadows - The Washington Post
Here are 4 sources including timesofisrael reporting that either 100k or 115k Gazans fled to Egypt after the start of the war.
ElonTaco@reddit
Or Kuwait
WiseMango13452@reddit
Even Denmark
mouthfullpeach@reddit
traffic violations! gahhh
tzzvii@reddit
Who’s Jordan
lDoStuff@reddit
Micheal Jordan
Tit__-Burglar@reddit
what?
Reapercore@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September?wprov=sfti1
Smelldicks@reddit
They got the boot from Jordan to Lebanon because of that and then proceeded to cause a civil war in Lebanon lol.
ddryubin@reddit
Getting downvoted simply bcz you dont know a certain event
cheese0muncher@reddit
If you don't know EVERY event in human history, GTFO reddit!!! >:(
nandru@reddit
Takes less time to google it than post a comment here
TinyTinyDino01@reddit
Or maybe just google it. You’re on Reddit, you have access to the internet. Instead of typing in reddit, type in google if you really want to know
Reapercore@reddit
Reddit would be pretty dead for discussion if everyone just went on google instead.
soganox@reddit
Reddit moment
zzRaeth@reddit
Ukrainians arent radicalized Muslims. 🤷
ShinyArc50@reddit
Neither are Palestinians… there are more Christians in Palestine than there are in Israel
PhaseAgitated4757@reddit
Well basically every country thats taken in a bunch of them gets fucked over by them. They legit helped sadam invade Kuwait. Once thw war was over they kicked the Palestinians out. They tend to commit crimes and try to overthrow the government that takes them in. If the middle east won't take them you have to assume there is a reason. There is.
ShinyArc50@reddit
And yet in the U.S. they’re a model minority who build small businesses and community… I think there might be more to the story than open and shut
puff_of_fluff@reddit
Saving Palestine does not mean “shipping out all of the Palestinians” lmfao what the fuck
Refugees exist because of what Israel is doing
The_Freshmaker@reddit
I mean even if this peace agreement holds up what are people gonna go back and live in the rubble? The whole strip is a tear down at this point.
popmyhotdog@reddit
Yes? That’s what happens when an area gets destroyed. You rebuild it and continue living there it doesn’t just become some walled off exclusion zone that stays that way forever
GardenDwell@reddit
I think their point is that it's a long and lengthy process on people who already are coming from somewhere really rough and this is taxing on countries that accept these refugees. morally it's the right thing to do, but financially it's very taxing for something that's already politically divisive.
popmyhotdog@reddit
Well maybe Israel and their bought US politicians should have thought of that before spending billions of dollars and destroying every fucking square inch of the place. You don’t get to just cause massive problems that tons of people were against and then cry once the unlubed dick of easily foreseeable consequences arrives. So now we either pay to fix their home and not have refugees and maybe limit the amount of them that grow up to hate our country and become terrorists OR we pay a lot of money to take them in as refugees that will most likely struggle to assimilate and commit crime. Thanks Israel I hope killing those women and children was worth it. So Don’t act like it’s only problematic now. People were saying this would be the outcome and that the actions were never justified and would cost a hell of a lot more than just the cost of the bombs the entire fucking time. Now it’s time to pay the bill or suffer even more consequences. The time for bitching about Israel’s actions was the previous two years. Now it’s time to waste even more money fixing the problems THEY caused. If you have a problem with that then stop supporting pointless wars and speak out against it instead of wasting your time speaking out against the solutions
Lost-Brain2385@reddit
Then Israelites are also refugees from Europe in that case?
JustaBearEnthusiast@reddit
They were and then proceeded to lock their arab hosts out of their own homes.
SuspiciousPine@reddit
No. Many european jews fled to other countries as refugees, but the ones that went to British Palestine were there to colonize it, not to take refuge and integrate with another country's culture
Electronic_Eye6499@reddit
Yeah right, Israel made sure they committed crimes in every country that welcomed them.
Lost-Brain2385@reddit
you did what the rulers of thosse nations wanted them to do until they used them as scapegoats for their incompetence?
KingAoki@reddit
Put down the bible and pickup a book freak
Funnyboyman69@reddit
And if they stayed in Europe, like we want the Palestinians to stay in Palestine, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Lost-Brain2385@reddit
Except they were driven out of their home to settle in Europe
Funnyboyman69@reddit
Which is what we’re trying to avoid in Palestine, you get it!
puff_of_fluff@reddit
The ones who would be moving onto that land after the Palestinians are all wiped out? No, they would not be refugees.
Sid_Vacant@reddit
JIDF working overtime in this comment section lmao
Kirito619@reddit
Why accept refugees when you can just stop the cause of the refugees? If Canada invaded USA i wouldn't want to accept an American. I would want to stop the Canadians lol.
Wtf is your logic
SaulGoldstein88@reddit
I mean, I think every person here wants Is**** to lose this fight, but how can they when damn near every western government is actively supporting them? They've got us by the balls and make us do whatever they want, simple as that.
moontanmountain@reddit
Why do you want Israel to lose?
ComPakk@reddit
Because the "Reddit trying to not see everything as black and white challenge" is basically impossible for some reason.
mouthfullpeach@reddit
at this point there is nothing BUT black and white in that conflict. whoever still supports israel is either wilfully ignorant or human hating
ComPakk@reddit
Okay. Lets start by saying im perfectly willing to change my opinion and im not here to just throw mud.
In my opinion:
Israel (the government) is yes absolutely guilty as fuck and should be internationally condemned and not supported.
But so does hamas.
Israel committed horrible atrocities but how does that makes hamas better?
I dont understand why we cant condemn both sides when one is a literal terrorist organizantion and the other is trying to commit genocide.
If you are saying this is black and white and Israel is the black then HAMAS is the good guys which is....
I mean surely even if you (as do i) support Palestinian rights you cant say with a straight face that HAMAS are the good guys.
Also semi related but another important thing reddit always fails on is
Israeli government ≠ Israeli people
HAMAS ≠ Palestinian people
And to clear it up: Im not saying HAMAS being guilty justifies everything Israel does the same way as Israel being guilty doesnt justify everything HAMAS does.
Its a nuanced situation with both sides committing atrocities stemming from more than two thousand years of conflict in the region and animosity built up over at the very least decades but more like centuries.
Saying "hes good" and "hes bad" the end is just a dangerous mentality almost anywhere.
Everyone should be held responsible for their actions no matter what they are fighting for.
whatsssssssss@reddit
because Israel winning meaning every single Palestinian dead?
Azylim@reddit
hamas and october 7th?
Kirito619@reddit
No, the British and Israel?
You think Israel started the occupation on October 8th? Hamas didn't even exist when the British invaded lol
NotTakenUsername4@reddit
They are not either. So many of them are obnoxious and disrespectful.
Snailbiting@reddit
The Arabs might know something about the Palestinian Arabs.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Western progressives constantly make excuses for Palestinian extremism and Islamic extremism in general because it doesn't affect them personally. They also constantly try to change the subject to Christian extremism whenever it comes up because Christian extremism does affect them personally, even though Islamic extremism is objectively a bigger global problem.
Their entire mindset is "it only matters if it affects me personally".
Prestigious-Fig1172@reddit
Does Christian extremists even exist in Europe in any significant number?
onarainyafternoon@reddit
This is one of my problems with much of the Left (I say this as a Leftist). We are completely unable to recognize that Islamist Extremism is essentially in its own category of religious extremism. My view is that Islam is so backwards because of the insane wealth that the Islam-dominated theocracies produce in oil. So they've never been forced to change and liberalize because they're newly wealthy, and there's no outside pressure to liberalize. The historically Christian nations are much more Liberal simply because they've been wealthy way longer, so there's been more time for them to Liberalize. The Islam-dominated countries have been wealthy for much shorter times. And because there's nothing forcing them to Liberalize, we are in the mess we are currently in. I have a few Muslim/ex-Muslim friends in a super liberal city in the US, and they all tell me that Islam is super backwards compared to every other Abrahamic religion.
LukaTheKoka@reddit
This is just a very incomplete view that ignores the Western world's deliberate strategy to keep the rest of the world poor through financial domination.
Christian nations had to earn their liberal society through the productive middle class fighting the church and the aristocracy who grew fat under tithes and rent. The Islamic world never had its own English Civil War, French Revolution, or 1848 Revolutions.
Instead, its development was kept in stasis due to colonialism. Then, secular leaders sprang up that didn't want their nations subordinate to the West and were undermined or deposed of by Western-backed factions or by the West itself.
And even worse, the Gulf states are just put in this resource curse situation where the class dynamics that gave Europe liberalism are nullified by vast amounts of oil wealth. They don't need to industrialize, they don't need to tax its citizens, they can just openly eliminate any opposition without consequence because they are happily subordinate to the West.
So, no, Islam isn't uniquely backwards. People, especially ex-Muslims, ignore the geopolitical and economic reasons as to why the Islamic world is the way that it is. It's the same society that promoted sciences and preserved Greek texts.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
As oil declines in importance over the coming decades, Arab states will become more and more economically irrelevant. Paraphrasing the extremely wealthy leader of an Arab oil state "My grandfather rode a camel, my father drove shitty car, I drive a luxury car, my son will drive a shitty car, and my grandson will ride a camel".
Israel, of course, will not have this problem, because Israel has a very modern economy based on technology and innovation, and not just exploiting oil resources.
onarainyafternoon@reddit
Yep, that's why some of the Arab states are trying to diversify their portfolios.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Problem is it won't work because sustainable economic growth necessarily requires a free and open society, which Arab states will never be (unless they go through a cultural enlightenment like the West did a few centuries ago, but that ain't happening any time soon).
Denpants@reddit
Wouldn't agree there. China has been growing too a developed country just fine with totalitarian rule.
CommonFig@reddit
actually there's a very interesting freakonomics podcast about china economy (and corruption) and why it still worked out, highly recommend a listen
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
...by stealing Western tech, which they have to do, because technological innovation is impossible in a totalitarian society like China where free thought is illegal.
Ch0p1n117@reddit
China is out-innovating the US in renewables, EVs, and AI right now lol
PresentBright@reddit
Still works though. Innovation as a comparative advantage that can be outsourced is an interesting idea. We can have an entirely gestalt robot hive mind, political stability, and import new ideas from less stable overseas states.
big_shmegma@reddit
can we really compare chinese culture and society with islamic culture and society though?
Denpants@reddit
Socially Conservative, Unitary, Highly focused on honor, dignity, and submission and service to the authority, either God or the government. Power is held by a few autocrats with pluralism discouraged and dissidents persecuted. Seems similar enough to me
ManBeSerious@reddit
u know ure wrong
onarainyafternoon@reddit
Good point. A lot of these wealthy Arab countries still abuse slave labor, and at this point, it's been well-known for two centuries that slavery always hurts an economy more than it helps it.
what_wags_it@reddit
The name for what you're describing is the Dutch Disease
Once they developed their offshore natural gas resources the demand for Dutch kroner spiked (people need to buy kroner with their own currency before using it to pay for gas), driving up the currency value and rendering all other manufactured exports non-competitive. Literally an economy-wide disincentive to develop anything but oil & gas, it becomes far cheaper to import other good and services vs produce domestically
Bigbootycoomer@reddit
I agree. Acceptance of islam is like a cancer rotting the left wing movement from the inside. It is a genius move to destabilise the entire ideology by rich billionaires in the middle east.
BigBlueBurd@reddit
You're wrong. The reason Islam has never reformed or liberalized is because their most holy text is explicitly not open to interpretation, discussion, or debate. The Qur'an is the literal direct, unabridged word of God. Anyone who dares deviate from the majority opinion is a schismatic and schismatics are by definition apostates, and apostates are to be put to death. No questions, no argument, no interpretation or leeway.
Islamic extremism doesn't exist. It is Islam in its most correct and direct form. Non-Muslims are explicitly given three choices: Conversion, submission, or death. Anyone who doesn't behave like this is explicitly not a very good Muslim by the very text of their holy book, which, I stress, is not open to interpretation.
Salad_Donkey@reddit
While all 3 have radicals of their own. Islam is also the youngest of the major abrahamic religions, and has not had the time go through the radical phase that both Christianity, and Judaism has. I agree, the extreme wealth, and lack of outside pressure to liberalize really isn't doing anything to help the process along.
cman_yall@reddit
I think you'll find that the mindset is "we shouldn't punish every member of a group for the actions of some of them."
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Weird how the people who insist that Palestine as a whole can't be held responsible for the actions of Hamas never have any problem holding Israel as a whole responsible for the actions of Netanyahu's government.
whatsssssssss@reddit
I don't necessarily think that every Israeli who's ever existed should be demonized, but at the same time israelis are free to leave their country whenever, Palestinians literally cannot leave; additionally almost every Israeli has contributed to the genocide by serving in the idf
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
"I don't think every Israeli should be demonized, I just think that virtually every one of them is guilty of genocide."
Doublespeak at its finest.
whatsssssssss@reddit
i mean when you serve in a military that's commiting genocide what do you expect
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Virtually every Palestinian in Gaza has a connection to Hamas too. Guess that means that they can all be personally held responsible for October 7th then.
whatsssssssss@reddit
"has a connection to Hamas" could mean literally anything in the world, virtually everyone in America has connections to the military, doesn't mean they served
cman_yall@reddit
Goomba fallacy at work.
Squirxicaljelly@reddit
You can acknowledge that Islamic extremism is bad and still not want tens of thousands of children to be blown to pieces with your tax dollars.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
People who say this always conveniently ignore the fact that Islamic terrorists have an extensive history of not wearing military uniforms to blend in with civilians, deliberately using civilian infrastructure to conduct military operations, and hiding behind civilians during combat.
cman_yall@reddit
Sounds like a policing problem needing more subtle methods to fight it than "explode everyone and let God sort them out."
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
There's a reason why the Geneva Conventions explicitly state that combatants who don't wear uniforms lose their protected status and civilian infrastructure that's used for military purposes loses its protected status and becomes a valid military target.
cman_yall@reddit
There's also a reason why, in most parts of the world, terrorism is not handled by the military.
CDanger@reddit
Palestinian extremism is awful. It’s also a bit of a “backed into a literal corner” scenario geographically and no longer excuses the equivalent Israeli aggression (proven by the leveling and 1-in-10-icide we’ve seen). It’s like when the most immature and tumultuous roommates you’ve ever met fight and you end up having to call the cops. Neither looks good, the weaker party is usually only “vindicated” by their inability to enact brutality on the same scale as the other one. I don’t want to live with either of them unless proven peaceful.
JustDontBeFat_GodDam@reddit
This is extremely frustrating to see from regressives. These people stone gays, cut clits off of women, and then throw acid in the face of those women for good measure. What do Christians in the West do? Be annoying about their skygod from time to time?
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Illiberal leftists is what they are. Their idea of "progressive" is just "West bad". It has nothing to do with actual progressive values.
heywoodidaho@reddit
All they had to do was ask Jordan and Lebanon about what happened when they let them in.
sesalnik@reddit
255 255 255
_spec_tre@reddit
i'll go out on a limb and guess that most westerners adovcating free palestine also aren't anti-immigration
unless anon is talking about arab nations then yes
outland_king@reddit
Its a cultural thing.
Outside of the random racists, most people are not against refugees, they are against the insulated communities that refuse to assimilate. The ones who bring the same mentality and cultural norms over that started the problem.
If Palestinians came over and followed our rules and were productive civil people, there'd be no issues.
YanLibra66@reddit
For real, there would be much less racism itself if these people integrated as well, but the media of these nations seems to purposely push them away from that idea and encourage them to be resentful and hostile towards the natives.
Practical_Trade4084@reddit
yup. We had many Vietnamese refugees. A vast majority of them just got on with life and had awesome kids like my dentist. Or knocking out great pho and banh mi.
ComPakk@reddit
Well anon said Egypt? Jordan? Anyone? so im guessing hes mainly talking about arab nations
glizzytwister@reddit
Most people just want Isreal to stop bombing them, and let them live on their land.
The argument to accept them as immigrants is under the condition that Isreal takes Gaza and the West Bank, which isn't what people actually want.
Strudel_Stampede@reddit
I don't think the arguments are mutually exclusive? I don't want these people to get slaughtered in their land while said land is actively being stolen.
What exactly is the hypocrisy in standing for that and not necessarily wanting them in my country?
IIIIIlIIIIIlIIIII@reddit
İsrael wants this because then the area gets depopulated.
Capital_Pick3604@reddit
Why is the i so weird?
outland_king@reddit
And it destabilizes European nations in the process. Two birds and all that.
an-unorthodox-agenda@reddit
Because you can't repopulate unless you first depopulate
AyFrancis@reddit
And the west divided
Top_Charity_2293@reddit
Dr_Axton@reddit
Question- what happened to the Syrian refugees? I remember it was big news like 10 years ago. Are they still in Europe or sent back?
Q_dawgg@reddit
People often contrast the Ukrainian refugee situation with the Syrian refugee crisis. But it should be mentioned that the Ukrainian refugee settlement was an organized process agreed upon by Ukraine and western nations, while the Syrian refugee crisis (and others) tended to be unorganized movements of people
romulusnr@reddit
Mainly because they know Israel will still blame Palestinians but now Israel will use that as an excuse to start shit in those countries as well.
Fruitsdog@reddit
Who is “everyone”? I’m fine with Palestinian refugees coming to live in my country. I don’t value people by the place they came from.
LukaTheKoka@reddit
Why does everyone think accepting refugees is the go to option lmao.
"Ethnic cleansing is wrong, that's why we should actively assist by taking them in :)))"
No one on the left wants that. All it takes is for the US to say "stop" and Israel will come to heel.
ciuccio2000@reddit
That is a cool pepe though
Nice_Finish7613@reddit
They cause problems everywhere they live.
gecko80108@reddit
Fix and live in your own country. We will help. Stay out of mine, we got enough problems
background-charactor@reddit
islamopobia
tigertoken1@reddit
Almost like accepting a bunch of people with vastly different cultural backgrounds into your society leads to social turmoil and increased crime rates.
RegalToaster@reddit
Why do there have to be refugees? Is anon dumb?
Netanyahu just has to gtfo out of Palestine and leave them alone
PassivelyInvisible@reddit
Hamas could also stop the terror attacks too
RegalToaster@reddit
I have a strong feeling that if isreal just left them alone jamás wouldn’t be such a problem
mrThe@reddit
They actually did in the past. You will be surprised what happened next.
nerm2k@reddit
We making up facts now?
Nileghi@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_the_Gaza_Strip
Israel left and removed every single jew from the Gaza strip. Look online and you'll find videos of IDF soldiers dragging jews by their arms. For the first time in centuries, Gaza did not have a single jew living in it. The UN held elections for this new state of Gaza.
And what did the Gazans do with this newfound freedom? They immediately elected a terror organization who's charter included the extermination of every jew, who immediately started bombing Israel.
If you think "leaving palestine alone" would stop them, you don't understand Hamas. If Israel flew to the moon, Hamas would build a spaceship to follow them there to fight them. They don't exist for Palestine. They exist to kill Israelis.
And the Israelis sure as shit wouldn't allow this scenario to happen again in the West Bank.
nerm2k@reddit
They left and only blockaded their ports, controlled all movement in and out, and strictly controlled what was allowed to be built and with what materials.
Nileghi@reddit
Correct. Just like we did to Imperial Japan.
Still didn't prevent Imperial Japan from deradicalizing itself.
DryConversation8530@reddit
They did, even provided them with utilities. Then Hamas dug up the water lines for "reasons"
Nileghi@reddit
https://x.com/Imamofpeace/status/1712510313910690243 heres the "reason" in question.
NotSaulGoodma@reddit
Bro was NOT alive in 2005 ( neither was I , but hey I can at least read ).
If the remaining unoccupied areas were ruled by a government that was focused on itself instead of trying to get a pointless revenge against Israel then the blockades wouldn’t happen and we wouldn’t even be here.
I’m not trying to argue that Israel did nothing wrong and that the kids there should lick Netanyahu’s and Ben Gvir’s boots but it’s not as simple as “ Muh the juice are hurting us ! “
ByteWhisperer@reddit
You should read their charter written upon incorporation. The very reason they exist is to destroy Israel.
Hot-Explanation-5751@reddit
But that doesn’t fit the narrative I blindly follow 🤯
Sushi-DM@reddit
The mental gymnastics required to say Israel is so unjustified but then turning around and saying an actual terror group that openly says one of its primary modus operandi is to genocide an entire people, who then killed, raped, and kidnapped innocent people in the thousands is the sympathetic one in this scenario.
I'm not saying Israel does not do fucked up things. But you're softballing hamas.
6notapervert9@reddit
I have a strong feeling you are degenerate lmao
Oryon-@reddit
Why are palestinians fighting back 😡 they should just die
PassivelyInvisible@reddit
Glass the middle east. No one can fight when everyone's ash
diobreads@reddit
BattleReadyZim@reddit
I have a strong feeling that this is not true.
diobreads@reddit
He is, in a way, reducing refugees.
By reducing the amount of people that can become refugees.
Constant_Ad7225@reddit
Oh no those evil mean Balestinians did Unwholesome things to the hecking wholesome British puppet monarch who annexed their land/s
In all seriousness the only mistake Palestinians made was not destroying the monarchy permanently
Davitark@reddit
Most pro-Palestinian leftists I know don’t support Hamas, but merely want the immediate end of a war that has brought mass destruction of essential infrastructures and caused, directly and indirectly, famine, disease, starvation and death, including women and children.
The fact that Palestinians do actively support terrorist organizations with stated genocidal intentions does not imply that sympathy and even full support for them should be denied. Before the Israelis drove them away from their original territory coexisted in exemplary peace with their neighbors and internal religious and cultural differences weren’t cause for violence or hateful division.
They have unfortunately turned to these radical extremist organizations not because they’re simply bad, but because they have been radicalized in the face of despair, dispossession and unending oppression.
An analogous case of systematic oppression leading to the brutalization of the oppressed group can be seen in the United States in black communities, where crime rates are on average higher than in most other communities. Instead of conflating blackness or being socialized as an African American with being rapacious and unscrupulous we should look at the material causes of these problems in order to effectively and definitively solve them.
Instead of assigning blame to Hamas or Israel for starting the war we should attack the root of the problem, namely, the subjection of the Palestinian people and their lack of a fixed, emancipated homeland since 1948.
Palestinians are often accused of not keeping their part of the agreements, which they indeed have done. But one should not forget that contracts go both ways, and Israel, the incomparably greater economic and military power, has blatantly ignored important stipulations regulating the relationship between Palestinians and Israelis and the intended political compromises. The far-right political faction in Israel was for a long time unwilling to reach an agreement, etc.
Let’s also not forget why historically oppressed peoples often turn to violence as a means of asserting their autonomy and regaining their freedom. As multiple peaceful attempts at achieving lasting peace in Palestine have shown, Israel is simply unconcerned with giving a dignified living to the millions of Palestinians living in and around Israel. Rightly or not, many have sought in terrorist organizations a voice whereby they will make themselves heard.
Simpsmakemewannadie@reddit
So many disgusting zioscum in these comments
wilfinator420@reddit
Your pretty smart for a guy who door dash’s 80 tacos from Jack in the box and then posts about it
easyadventurer@reddit
Save Palestine so they can STAY there. No need for refugees.
Holy shit, it’s not that hard.
ioneflux@reddit
Step 1: accept Palestine refugees
Step2: land becomes empty
Step 3: Israel colonizes empty land
Step 4: Israel grows larger and Palestine shrinks
Step 5: repeat
This shit has been happening for 75 years. We’re not stupid. Europe should accept Israeli refugees if they want to save Palestine.
Snailbiting@reddit
But we want to save Israel. Muslims must care for their brethren or they aren't real Muslims, according to the Quran.
ShortFroth@reddit
If you live in a society or community that elevates some dweeb like ben shapiro, it means your society is occupied and being looted and you are propagandized from birth to spread your legs for the circumcised log.
KnownAsAnother@reddit
itt; Isnotrael shills
vischy_bot@reddit
Why they have to leave? Seems like they could be saved by stopping whoever is forcing them out
The_Freshmaker@reddit
Ukrainian refugees don't have a long and documented history of trying to overthrow their new host countries. Hezbollah is a direct creation of refugees fleeing into Lebanon in the 70s, several Middle East countries were majorly destabilized the last time they took in large groups of Palestenians. Sucks but no one wants to risk it now. Not ideal but the best solution really would be to move everyone to a new development on the Sinai and give them their own country again built by the people who destroyed their last one.
johnnadaworeglasses@reddit
Wants people to have their own country
wHy DoNt u TaKe tHem iN ThEn?
Because I want them to have their own country?
NotSaulGoodma@reddit
Their own country ruled by who exactly ?
I’m not opposed to a theoretical Palestine that is ruled by a government that recognises Israel’s right to exist but good luck with making the citizens there NOT resent us for the shit we did to them.
I literally don’t know how the fuck this conflict should be resolved , some extremist Israelis think that we should’ve went all in and conquered Gaza but this would only add to their hatred.
johnnadaworeglasses@reddit
Ruled by a government duly elected by the people.
Nileghi@reddit
Which would undoubtedly be Hamas, which is the problem.
Palestinians will elect a government who's entire purpose in existance is the extermination of middle eastern jews.
Hialur@reddit
They could elect someone else if israel didn't imprison every political leader that wasn't hamas on bogus charges
Nileghi@reddit
who are you referring to? The only imprisoned leader I can think of is Marwan Barghouti, the leader of the Second Intifada.
SuspiciousPine@reddit
Israel is the only country that wants Palestinians to flee their land. Everyone else would prefer they stay where they are
slaying_mantis@reddit
It's like they should have their own state or something
haha7125@reddit
Ah yes. Lets just take millions of refugees instead of just holding israel responsible and ending the apartheid/genocide.
throwaway_111419@reddit
Arabs are the most generous people I know - to the point their generosity actively hold back the devs of capitalism. They would go out on a limb to help atheist infidels like me, never mind other Arabs and Muslims.
Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon practiced this generosity from the 1950s all the way to the 1980s. One by one, stuff involving Palestinians happened in these host countries that caused a 180° shift in attitude
SuperDialgaX@reddit
I know with Jordan it was Black September - what was it for Egypt, Syria, Lebanon?
ComPakk@reddit
They are allegedly linked to Anwar Sadat's (president of egypt) assassination
In lebanon there was the 1975-90 civil war where palestinian's hugely contributed and caused a pretty big demographic shift towards an eventual muslim majority
Im not sure about syria.
Palestinians (living in kuwait) also supported Saddam Hussein invasion of kuwait.
Obviously these are a bit more nuanced and i recommend reading up on them before forming an opinion but even with some mitigating circumstances its not by chance that palestinians have a pretty bad reputation in arabic nations
How2chair@reddit
Jordan did and their king got killed. Egypt did it and now they have terrorists in sinai. Lebanon did it and now hezbollah is terrorising the populous just as much as israel
BaconDragon69@reddit
It’s so funny when the same people who love to throw around out of context refugee or immigrant crime statistic suddenly don’t care about the fact that statistically speaking conservative white men are the most likely pedophiles.
Smelldicks@reddit
I hate Israel and I heavily sympathize with the Palestinians, but they’re the most radicalized group of people on planet earth and they commit acts of terrorism wherever they go. I wouldn’t want their refugees either. Other countries have taken them in the past and it’s been a disaster for each of them.
pritheemakeway@reddit
Jordan has taken millions of Palestenians as refugees and millions of Syrians as refugees. Bullshit that people keep calling out Jordan which is a small country with no real power, yet they have literally taken millions of refugees.
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
This is only true if you consider all Palestinians everywhere to be refugees (which the UN absurdly does) even when they have citizenship/permanent residency somewhere.
Because fun fact, a majority of Jordanian citizens are ethnically Palestinian, but they're still considered to be "refugees" by the UN, even though they have Jordanian citizenship and live permanently in Jordan.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
Nope, Palestinians with citizenships aren't refugees since they aren't stateless, most Palestinians are stateless thouhh
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
That is not true. The UN considers any person who has an ancestor that was displaced from Palestine in 1948 to be a refugee.
This true regardless of whether they have citizenship in any other country. According to the UN definition, DJ Khaled is a "refugee".
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
Nope, if any of your parents are citizens of any state, you aren't a refugee according to UNRWA
Derpy_Derpingson@reddit
Again, this is simply false.
Anyone who was displaced in 1948, or any descendent thereof, qualifies for "refugee" status under the UNRWA definition.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
You aren't a refugee if you gain citizenship because UNRWA is no longer the organization responsible for you. Your country of citizenship is, that's why Israelis aren't refugees according to UNRWA while qualifying for the that criteria
Nileghi@reddit
THIS SHOULD BE THE CASE, BUT PALESTINIANS ARE THE EXCEPTION.
Your scenario is exactly what the detractors of the UNRWA definition want it to be. It isn't. UNRWA counts all palestinians and their descendants as refugees. We do not do this for anyone else, including jews, who 95% came to Israel as refugees in the first place.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
They don't, UNRWA also cared for the Jewish refugees who similarly were living in the land of Palestine at the time. After Israel formed by a few years, they basically said that they'll take care of their citizens from then on. Most Palestinians don't have citizenship of any state though so they're mostly refugees.
Palestinians with citizenship of states that take care of their citizens aren't under the care of UNRWA but of their governments
Nileghi@reddit
For thoses that want to understand how ridiculous this definition is. DJ Khaled is considered a refugee that can opt for UNRWA benefits despite being a second generation palestinian american.
brainrotbro@reddit
They've only taken \~100k since the current conflict began. Most of the millions of refugees you mention were taken in during previous conflicts in 1948 and 1967.
pritheemakeway@reddit
This is so stupid. The “current” conflict. It’s been going for years
2009miles@reddit
The timeframe of the refugees coming in somehow invalidates the fact of the person you're replying to? They didn't even mention a timeframe.
bad_gaming_chair_@reddit
Egypt hasn't taken as many as Jordan or Syria but they did take in 100k Gazans since the beginning of the war
pritheemakeway@reddit
This is so stupid. The “current” conflict. It’s been going for years
landrastic@reddit
You understand that removing the Palestinians forcibly from Palestine is not freeing them surely
dsc1028@reddit
It's almost like one of these refugee groups were peaceful and assimilated well into whatever place they relocated. And the other keeps trying to enforce their fucked up barbaric ass backwards religion and beliefs onto others instead of adapting wherever they go, huh strange that one of these groups keeps garnering disdain who'd a thunk it.
Commercial_Cattle431@reddit
r/mysteriousdownvoting
insert_dead_memes@reddit
I wonder if there is any visual difference between palestinians and ukrainians that could have indicated this
dannylopuz@reddit
Why would they need to be refugees when they already have houses?
What they need is for Israel to stop bombing them and rebuild the ones it destroyed.
Salamadierha@reddit
The countries near Palestine know what Palestinians are like.
RomeosHomeos@reddit
Didn't palestinian refugees kill the president of Egypt
No-Care6414@reddit
Gotta love zios in comments
Ftoy99@reddit
Don't think most people , are pro israel . They just understand that the Palestinians are radical muslims and do not progress with the rest of the world, thus a lot of muslims countries don't even accepted them as we should not accept them refugees in the EU.
pickpocketpanda0897@reddit
Lmfao the Israel support has really ramped up lately, hope that propaganda budget isn't getting low. You dorks are gonna need it
SaulGoldstein88@reddit
Because they're violent, where as Ukranians are not. Let's not tip toe around the truth now, any pro Palestinian person would refuse to have one living in their house with them.
basti329@reddit
Ukrainians only take your welfare, palestinians take your money and your high trust society.
Povstnk@reddit
The prior isn't even the case
basti329@reddit
In germany its a tad over 50% on welfare.
Official numbers say its 700K on welfare, roughly 200k of them are children who can't work (duh), the rest doesn't work (But they could).
havok29@reddit
Also a majority of the Ukrainian refugees are not adult men
Enrico_Tortellini@reddit
https://i.redd.it/irbh4eenopuf1.gif
dharathar@reddit
Hmmmm. Why would anyone have to take refugees if they are given their country back?! Perhaps you gringos can take the illegal settlers.
charruss@reddit
Because they don't give a shit they just want to end Israel.
SirJezza@reddit
Or let them live on the land they have lived on all there lives?
gfolder@reddit
You're thinking about this wrong buddy. You must mist the occupiers, and remove em from the places that don't belong to them and that's it
NotSaulGoodma@reddit
The place in question has been ruled over for nearly 80 years.
If we used this logic for EVERY country then none would actually exist. I understand why one would argue that the British simply scammed the Arabs in WW1 but at the same time , you can’t argue that Israel shouldn’t exist because then you’d have to get rid of the people that are already there. A population that is WAY bigger than the Palestinian one , you’d do what you criticise.
gfolder@reddit
Huh.. sounds familiar
cool_weed_dad@reddit
People who support Palestine want them to have their own country, not have them shipped off elsewhere so Israel can fully steal what’s left of it.
Designated_Lurker_32@reddit
If you really want to help Palestine, the best thing you could do is to cease all aid you're giving to Israel immediately, assuming you're giving them any, and then sanction them.
Frankly, this also goes for a lot of other Middle-Eastern conflicts and refugee crises as well. Israel is either directly or indirectly involved in many of them. Funny how that works, huh.
Kerbal_Guardsman@reddit
Of all people you'd think a 4channer would know instantly
Ecstatic_Host_9771@reddit
Ask Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, etc why they dont want them
panzerboye@reddit
Saving Palestine means you won't have Palestinian refugees you fucking doofus. One of the solution your favorite state proposed was to ship Palestinians to Europe.
nothing_in_my_mind@reddit
Ukrainian refugees: White, blonde, hot
I hope that answered the question
spiritofporn@reddit
No worries, just send them to the EU. Those chumps accept everyone. WiR sChAfFeN dAs
forgettfulthinker@reddit
Save palestine
Look inside
Take people away from palestine, allowing israelis to take over
BigBadBurg@reddit
Ukrainians are European in essence. They can assimilate to other European countries with ease. Islam doesn’t
CatTNT@reddit
Aren’t the Palestinians completely shunned and hated by even their Arab neighbors like Egypt, Jordan, etc? If their own religious and ethnic kin hate them, why would we be different?
BagOfShenanigans@reddit
There won't be refugees if you preserve their nation??? Is OP a fucking idiot? Failing to save them is what results in refugees.
agebtakbar@reddit
ignore the bot army circling this thread trying to dehumanise all the innocent people they killed. Time to astroturf with the picture of the cat.
Suspicious_Leg4550@reddit
As far as I know Russia has never attacked a country that took in refugees on the basis of harboring terrorists.
NotBalsac@reddit
Muslim refugees are a psyop to force Islam onto other nations
myaaa_tan@reddit
Maybe we could fix the issue by removing the problem that is on their land?
afuckingpolarbear@reddit
There were problems with the ukranian refugees as well in a lot of countries.
I think part of it is that most countries weren't structured around having so many dependants.
I have no problem accepting those in need but housing plan, as an example, did not account for the sudden population growth or were already behind and the number of refugees seeking relocation is starting to put a real strain on most economies
justp_assing_by@reddit
Saving the Palestine means staying in Palestine and having a safe regular life, not talking the people away from their birthplace in order not to get murdered. The things mentioned here are contradictory. The whole "oooh you state that you are not racist yet you don't let a foreign person punch in the face" is stupid. Other nations can still receive Palestinian refugees, but this defeats the whole purpose of helping people to live a normal life without having to migrate.
LoinStrangler@reddit
Pestinians attempted coups in: Jordan, Lebanon, Syria. Linked to Sadat's assasination (head of state for Egypt who made peace with Israel) and for the cherry on top supported Saddam's invasion WHILE KUWAIT HOSTED THEM.
bigtree2x5@reddit
This is like watching a war happen in the Balkans and being like "why won't Bosnia and Croatia take Serbian refugees?" There's so much beef in that area between every ethnic group/country that probably started 780 years ago and nobody has let it go. Also Egypt is second most in funding behind Israel they aren't gonna help Palestinians for shit.
Key_Dish_good@reddit
Maybe stop attacking them? I know that's hard but have to try ya know
ArkaneArtificer@reddit
They have, many many times, guess what they did immediately as soon as the pressure was off? Start firing rockets at Israel again not even hours later
bigtree2x5@reddit
Trying to end the war so we don't have to deal with a ton of refugees
DavisCB@reddit
I don't want any 👈😎👈
thatfookinschmuck@reddit
When you hurt someone a lot they become unpredictable this is like behavioral science 101. I can’t believe Christians don’t get this.
Tom_Gibson@reddit
lol how are you "saving Palestine" if you accept their refugees after Israel ethnically cleanses the territory? At best, you are "saving Palestinians" and not "Palestine." Those are two very different things
DankElderberries420@reddit
Drevstarn@reddit
Why would there be refugees is Palestine is saved? Anon is dumb as fuck.