Winboat is fantastic! Runs Excel really well on my laptop!!
Posted by CosmicTurtle24@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 305 comments
Was running excel on my virtual machine before. It used to be laggy and honestly always pissed me off and bothered me. and the other options available just seemed not good enough. I was also just worried about having to switch to windows in the future in case I had to use excel for my job. But nope, winboat runs it really well, almost as if its a native. its still slightly laggy but its such a massive improvement.
Props to the winboat devs!!
prueba_hola@reddit
Libreoffice ( https://flathub.org/en/apps/org.libreoffice.LibreOffice ) run even better and is native for Linux !!
griffinsklow@reddit
You go and use this in a corporate environment and see angry E-Mails from your supervisor why their documents are now messed up.
It's just not on par with MS Office and advertising it as if is does more damage than it helps.
IMO it's way better if people can reduce their dependency on Microsoft by being able to still use all their tools that they need (yes! need!) from within Linux, especially with those that will never be ported.
Arctic_Turtle@reddit
Wow ignorance abounds around here I see.
You seem to be confused because you saved a document in LibreOffice and tried to open it in Microsoft products and it didn’t look the same. LO uses Open Document Format for its files which is a widely available description of file format and Microsoft still can’t get it right and yet you managed to paint them as the good guys. Microsoft uses a proprietary file format that they don’t let others use freely and LO still manages to read and write files in those formats.
99.9 % of people don’t need anything from Microsoft that doesn’t already exist in open source software, including LibreOffice.
griffinsklow@reddit
No you are confused because you obliviously don't understand how this will go, but I'll help:
Is this good that MS have multiple (doc, docx, ...) formats that are "open" (they claim it for the newer x formats), but they are not and no software except desktop MS Office cannot properly handle it? NO! They are not the good guys, I never wrote this - this you made up in your head. Are you forced to use it anyway? Yes. Because I have to eat. And I have to follow what my boss and company policies say.
Its somehow really funny because a week ago we had a meeting where our boss told newer staff that while we as our specific department has more freedom and is allowed to use Linux we were reminded that MS Office is the standard software according to company policy and we'll have to ensure to not cause friction with the other departments.
May or may not be true, I don't have statistics on that. But I will give you a clear example where all solutions except PowerPoint fall short (including proprietary software like Google Docs): Videos in presentations. If I use OnlyOffice, which is way better at loading our terrible PPTX templates that we have to use compared to LibreOffice I can make presentations with a modern MS-Office-like interface and similar UX. This will go well until I want to add a video, or often multiple ones. Try it. Have fun. Try it LibreOffice Impress - also have fun! Oh it works? Try it on another PC. Have fun. Just two videos, looping. No workarounds with GIF. Powerpoint will work. If it doesn't convert to WMV, then it will work 100%. This is a dealbraker and I've yet to find a solution myself.
Then one other thing: with MS Office you get one package with all the features and they tend to work well if you disable some annoying stuff that is enabled by default (like smart select) and ignore the annoying AI panel they shove into your face now. You wrote that Open Source software can replace that. For me at least it does (except for videos in presentations and collaborating with other people), but I have to use a combination of both LibreOffice and OnlyOffice due to their different strengths in UX and functionality. But this can be very frustrating for other people who just want a simple replacement
MS is terrible and very anti-competitive, but they still made a quite good software package. And shouting "NOOO Open Source Better!!! Use this!" isn't helping because this sets an expectation for regular users. It's usually small and weird things too which can be a deakbreaker for non-tech people (you would be surprised).
And don't understand me wrong - I don't want to defend MS, but I'm also not on a warpath with them like many seem here on r/linux. I'll use open source as much as possible, but its unfortunately not 100% yet.
And if we go back to the topic, WinBoat helps with that - we had people move to Linux because of this easy way to setup a more seamless integration. It's still a VM, but this is what I mean with "small and weird things" that can make or break it.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
This is a gigantic text wall in favor of a situation that is entirely manufactured by Microsoft themselves. It's not a "problem" with Linux that can magically be "fixed". Everything in your post is about being a slave to Microsoft formats, which completely defeats the purpose of using LibreOffice at all.
griffinsklow@reddit
Yes, it is caused by Microsoft with their horrible practices. Doesn't change it. Most companies, schools, organizations are as you say "slaves to Microsoft formats".
For you as someone who seems to absolutely loathe Microsoft using LibreOffice or other open source tools may be part of a fight against it. But you really really need to understand that many, probably most people don't think about software in this way. It's a tool to do whatever they want/need to do and there is more flexibility than one would expect. Its just that with office software there a a lot of issues regarding missing features and compatibility to existing documents which many users very much care about.
And I don't know you you interpret some "purpose" into LibreOffice as kind of weapon against Microsoft. It's an office suite. Its purpose is making and editing documents and making their user's life easier. Its just not there yet thanks to decades of Microsoft entrenching themselves (plus broken/missing features and UX issues). It wish it was different but it is just like this.
Regarding Linux - Office is part of the problem, and while there won't be ever a "magical fix" having compatibility tools like Wine and even WinBoat (which is just a VM, but a regular user really doesn't care about that) helps them to be less dependent on Microsoft solutions. It's not an "all or nothing".
SEI_JAKU@reddit
I don't "absolutely loathe" Microsoft, I am just very tired of how they're hellbent on screwing people more and more every year. They preferred to screw businesses in the past, but now they're coming after everyone else, and there's a point where you can't put up with that anymore.
Putting aside that this is a wild guess on your part, even if this were true, it would need to change. People can't just keep accepting getting screwed over like this.
All of which is either misinformation, or a hilariously easy fix as I've described.
Microsoft themselves have made it very clear that this is all or nothing, and that's why Europe is finally (finally!) getting tired of it after all these years.
griffinsklow@reddit
Yes it is a guess, but not a wild one. Just go out of this little bubble here and you'll see. Experienced it myself way too many times. Yes, it needs to change, but it's not happening. It will just get worse. Especially now that Microsoft holds people more and more hostage with AI stuff and the cloud Desktop crap with Ondrive. They like it until the 5GB are all used up and then begrudgingly pay the fee.
Did you even read my example what does not work? It's just one thing that affects me personally fyi. It's not an easy fix.
And just changing over to open source formats and tools? Doable - we'll see how the new wave of trying to get rid of MS works out. But definitely not a "hilariously easy fix" for larger organizations.
No, I want to highlight that it's not as easy as they think and that not everyone has the same priorities. By keeping expectations in check there will be way less disappointment down the line.
Let's see. A bit of money or a new Microsoft office can sometimes change things. Not the first time. I hope it goes well (especially as my taxes go into that).
SEI_JAKU@reddit
I am very tired of people who live in bubbles asking others to leave some alleged bubble. I don't believe Reddit has the answers to anything at all, thank you very much.
Yes yes, accept evil because it's "inevitable", I've heard it all before.
It's not that simple anymore. Europe can no longer afford to be led around by a company like this anymore, and this also includes every European citizen. I can rant and rave about corporate influence in Linux all I want, but it is still currently true that siding with Linux is going to be better for society in the long run.
griffinsklow@reddit
And you are not?! Everyone has their bubbles. I just want you to know some things I learned from others and that it's not so easy to reach out to them
And am I wrong? Not only Microsoft. Recent example with Android removing sideloading. Anyone of the general audience complaining? No? Back to Microsoft, I've seen way too many who "don't mind" the terrible features or claim they are not affected (until OneDrive deletes your documents because you are over 5GB free space).
Doesn't mean you have to give up. Doesn't mean you have to accept it, but instead be realistic and adapt strategies accordingly. Depending on where it's implemented you can go with a "band-aid off" approach - where there's a good plan, training, good support. For others a gradual approach is better where proprietary software is slowly replaced by alternatives that are enhanced over time until there's no need for the original tool anymore.
Fully agree, but tell this to the general audience, tell this to the politicians that have "constructive talks" with Microsoft and other large companies. The only thing that startles some people seems to be the Windows 10 EOL. Now there will be 1 additional year thanks to the EU making some noise (1 year free extended security) and if it's done smartly, this is probably the chance we'll get because it ruffles many people's feathers ("why should I throw away my laptop?! it still works fine"). Some public broadcasting stations suggested switching to Linux
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Because, again, this is LibreOffice not being allowed access to the Microsoft formats. That's not something LibreOffice can fix. But this can be bypassed by users choosing OpenDocument formats over Microsoft formats.
Aggeloz@reddit
No change. MS Office Word documents break if you open them in any other program. As someone who used to do research in computer science, people are really touchy on that subject, you can open the docs in other programs.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Which is why you create the documents in OpenDocument formats from the start.
Aggeloz@reddit
Yeah tell that to the European commission and every researcher and research center.....
SEI_JAKU@reddit
I'm not in a position to do so, but you clearly are. Never mind that Europe is very much in a position to solve this problem once and for all, and never mind that Microsoft Office itself (allegedly) supports saving in OpenDocument, there's always SoftMaker.
Born-European2@reddit
Then at least OnlyOffice.
OmicronFan22@reddit
Yes, the OnlyOffice suite is very good at keeping compatibility and content consistency to MS Office….. at work I am forced to use Office, but OnlyOffice on my private machine feels almost like the original
top5a@reddit
glhf getting things to play nicely in enterprise, especially with CJKV fonts and formatting. Even if you have extracted and are using 1-1 fonts+shims and/or embedded TTFs, things will still break more often than not (table padding and gutter margins with serifs in word processing are a frequent offender), even if you are a power user with a deep understanding of the stack.
For personal office processing, or in organizations in which everyone is conforming to F(L)OSS, no problem, they get the job done. But, software like OpenOffice and LibreOffice, unfortunately, are not intercompatible substitutes for the m$ suite. If your organization, or those for whom you are composing documents, are utilizing the m$ suite, you are best behooved to do as well.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Or you could just... get people to save things in OpenDocument. It really is that simple.
TopdeckIsSkill@reddit
libreoffice calc is definitely not on par with excel for most tasks.
I had to use it 2 years at work and it was a pure nightmare
FrozenLogger@reddit
Lol what? I have used both interchangeably for years, even way back when libre was open office.
They just are different. I like a lot of thing about libre office better TT han excel and it could do a lot of things easier than excel and some things excel wouldn't do at all.
A nightmare? Come on... You just are used to one thing and never learned the other. Excel is better at some things too. They just are different.
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
I still use this for most of my tasks. Much more familiar with excel for a lot of stats tasks. Really cool to be able to use excel without having to full blown switch to windows.
libra00@reddit
Pardon my ignorance, but does excel not run well in wine/proton/etc or something?
leoingle@reddit
From what my research has shown me is wine can do older versions of office products ok (like 2016 and before) but newer ones it can't. I think due to the integration they are putting into it these days with the Microsoft account. I wish they would just make a damn Linux version already.
DerivativeOfLog7@reddit
I've experimented a bit with Office 2019, and (at least for what I've found) it's broken due to unimplemented APIs that deal with software licenses in sppcs.dll and similar. Tho with MS Activation Scripts, Ohook and TSforge, I wonder how much it would take to fix it...
leoingle@reddit
Yeah, that's what the link above references. Something with not being able to do the licensing right.
libra00@reddit
They're probably intentionally breaking support for non-Windows OSes to keep legions of office workers from switching or whatever.
RhubarbSimilar1683@reddit
It's because of https://www.codeweavers.com/support/forums/general/?t=26;forumcurPos=50;msg=286876
leoingle@reddit
That makes sense.
leoingle@reddit
That's what all these companies are doing now. They see how well it's worked for Google, Apple and Amazon. Build an ecosystem where each product is dependent on another one of your products and lock the customer in and make them dependent on your services.
RhubarbSimilar1683@reddit
It's because of https://www.codeweavers.com/support/forums/general/?t=26;forumcurPos=50;msg=286876
Outrageous_Vagina@reddit
I just use the web version...
https://excel.cloud.microsoft/en-us/
StovepipeCats@reddit
Web versions of the office apps are not even close to fully featured and glitch out regularly (entire lines typed will just zoop into thin air).
RhubarbSimilar1683@reddit
That's on purpose. If you're doing accounting or payroll you need an ERP. If you're doing data analysis they want to sell you Microsoft fabric.
leoingle@reddit
Aka more money.
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
nope, it doesnt.
libra00@reddit
Ah, I haven't tried, I've been using LibreOffice since before I switched to linux.
Oerthling@reddit
You're still running Excel in a VM. ;)
The packaging is nice though
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
Why is it so much less laggy tho? How different is it in its operation from Virtual Machine Manager, which was I was using.
i986ninja@reddit
He's wrong though.
Wine is a translation layer not a VM
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
yes but winboat is not based on Wine. its basically a virtual machine that somehow configures windows apps better than having to configure the vm properly by yourself.
TRKlausss@reddit
It could also be full virtualization vs. Only a translation layer. Or it could be the parameters that you passed to the VM (1 CPU/8Gb RAM?) while this solution virtualizes over all your hardware etc.
I don’t really know your specific setup, but these are the main reasons why it is laggier…
Training-Ad-8270@reddit
Winboat uses the same KVM+QEMU as every other VM product for Linux. It's not a translation layer like WINE.
FryToastFrill@reddit
I’d guess they need FreeRDP in order to make the “native” feeling of running windows apps work, as it’s probably using existing capture libraries on windows to grab specific windows while a custom display driver would have to do a lot of it manually.
Oerthling@reddit
I don't know why your Windows VM was laggy.
Guess: You didn't have the correct drivers for the video card configured for the VM? Didn't use SPICE? Storage was on HDD instead of SSD/NVME solid state storage? Not enough RAM configured?
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
Well idk tbh. not really that much of a power user. so ig its nice apps like this (and I think even winapps works similarly?) seem to make it easier.
DarshanUpadhyay@reddit
That’s great to hear! You should also give Collabora Office a try — it’s open source and has excellent interoperability with Excel and other Microsoft formats. Plus, there’s Collabora Online, which runs right in your browser and works really well without needing Windows at all.
Oerthling@reddit
Probably didn't know to instill the guest drivers in the VM?
ConjurerOfWorlds@reddit
So, you're just confirming that it's a pain in the ass to configure qemu properly? :)
Oerthling@reddit
For a noob? Yes.
If not then it's a few clicks.
fripletister@reddit
You were using libvirt before
i_donno@reddit
Fewer services?
CelDaemon@reddit
Likely better configuration, that's about it.
BranchLatter4294@reddit
Maybe you forgot to install the guest drivers?
Born-European2@reddit
Indeed, but setting up windows in qemu is a pain in the a§§ for a beginner and time-consuming for people who know the drill (if you are honest to yourself). I appreciate that there is a new and more convenient way.
Still, like with every other tool: Mind your safety during operation, don't just onboard every program that windows offers. For the Everyday use case, there is not really a reason to do this.
Free (in the sense of open) is always better!
Unruly_Evil@reddit
Setting up windows in qemu are 25 min including the windows installation.
B_bI_L@reddit
including shared clipboard and folders which require 2 random drivers? and some other tools for ram ballooning and stuff, which are easier but still counterintuitive
bbroy4u@reddit
can u link to any guide that teach this stuff?
B_bI_L@reddit
don't really know one, i just searched for videos of installing windows ith qemu+kvm. then if i needed shared fs/clipboard google how to get these. videos often give better result on this specific topic i think
Unruly_Evil@reddit
Ok, maybe 27min.
trailhounds@reddit
And once you've got it setup, you can store a template and clone it at will if you need to reset or a windows update jacks it up. Sorry, but how long would you spend setting windows itself up to get it right?
Skyshaper@reddit
I can do it in 23.5 min
Unruly_Evil@reddit
Me too but I don't want op feels bad.
drewski3420@reddit
This is the Internet, you're allowed to say "ass"
EspritFort@reddit
You jest, but there are plenty of real automatic deletion/shadowban-triggers on reddit, like linking to Mega or Vimeo.
drewski3420@reddit
ok, but what does that have to do with "ass"
EspritFort@reddit
It provides examples of things that you're explicitly not allowed to say.
saltyjohnson@reddit
Yeah but not for silly little swear words, cmon
japzone@reddit
I might try to reinstall WinBoat using Windows LTSC just to see if that'll cut down on background resource usage.
Sinaaaa@reddit
Virtual Box is the way xd
DarthPneumono@reddit
Sure, if for some reason you decide to manage Qemu yourself, instead of using virt-manager or Boxes or any of the other libvirt-y frontends. Silly to think any normal user would or should have to do that.
Oerthling@reddit
Not really. Using virt-manager it's pretty easy. A noob wouldn't know about installing the guest drivers, so, yes, more convenience is more convenient. :-)
Logical-Site-7233@reddit
He never said it wasn't easy for people in the know, he said its time consuming and this provides convenience even to experienced people, i know my way around vms and this id still a convenient option im glad exists
Oerthling@reddit
I'm also glad it exists. Less for the few clicks it saves me than for the containerization and nice packaging. :-)
And for your first point - sure, but that's true for everything. A noob at using Excel won't get to his first 3D chart or Pivot without having to learn a few clicks and concepts.
Exernuth@reddit
Thats' why you just do it once and then clone the VM everywhere else :-P
FrozenLogger@reddit
It isn't with virt manager, which uses qeumu. It's easier than virtual box at this point.
And why do you make weird S's in your ass?
Exernuth@reddit
I think you replied to te wrong person.
FrozenLogger@reddit
Yes indeed. Sorry about that.
dezmd@reddit
May that ass is legally the size of two sections worth of paragraphs?
DarthPneumono@reddit
It also still requires a Windows license to be legal (after an evaluation period, set by Microsoft). I'm not sure why this isn't more prominently mentioned on their various pages but it will certainly bite people. (See also: win4lin)
National_Way_3344@reddit
The most justified use of the high seas I can think of
Training-Ad-8270@reddit
OP should be getting WORSE performance via winboat, if everything is configured the same.
All "native" linux virtualization solutions (like winboat) use KVM+QEMU under the hood. (Exceptions being e.g. VirtualBox, VMware - they use their own virtualization + device emulation code paths.)
Winboat has an additional layer of FreeRDP, to display just one application in its own Linux-wrapped window. That makes everything even more laggy.
If instead you ran the same Windows+Excel directly in a libvirt manager window (also KVM+QEMU), and set up Windows to use paravirtualized drivers including display, things will be much snappier.
My guess is you forgot to do that last step: Install the KVM guest paravirtualized drivers in Windows.
maximevince@reddit
Isn’t this juist Windows in a VM?
whatThePleb@reddit
Just use LibreOffice ffs.
Z404notfound@reddit
LibreOffice is shite when it comes to support for a vast array of formula functions or VB Script. Just because you use Libre office to make grocery lists doesn't mean that it is suitable for everyone else's use case.
Born-European2@reddit
As much as I appreciate the Work that the WinBoat devs have put in there, I would limit the use of WinBoat to a bare minimum. I understand that excel is not to meet with open source yet. But even Office is a concern to your privacy and data. Even officials start to recognize this now.
https://news.itsfoss.com/austrian-forces-ditch-microsoft-office/
PresentDirection41@reddit
LibreOffice is unusable for anyone who does anything more complex than just basic spreadsheets. My company is entirely reliant on vendor-specific Excel plugins that obviously don't exist on LibreOffice. Few professionals are going to actually be able to switch over.
FattyDrake@reddit
You answered your own question sorta. A big reason Excel is "better" at complex tasks is because of the sheer amount of VB resources and plugins available for it made over the past couple decades.
You can do a lot of the same things in LibreOffice with Python, but 1. the API is more complex than Office and VB, and 2. There's just not a lot of plugins and macros written for LO because everyone is using Office. It's possible (not gonna be huge, but still possible) that EU state adoption of this might end up with more available plugins. But it's never going to match Excel's support unless Microsoft implodes.
Zireael07@reddit
Tell me more about doing complex things in LibreOffice and Python. Where do I find resources on this (Python programmer by day) ?
FattyDrake@reddit
So I quickly googled a link to share and aside from the LibreOffice API (which supports Python and other languages) I found that there exists a LibreOffice BASIC (I have not used this, just found it so I learned something new). Also there's a whole LO Extensions site that has a bunch of community made ones, including some for putting Python directly into sheets.
Ashleighna99@reddit
If you need Excel-only plugins, keep WinBoat for those, but you can still do serious automation in LibreOffice via Python/UNO. Install python3-uno and libreoffice-script-provider-python, run: soffice --accept=socket,host=127.0.0.1,port=2002;urp;StarOffice.ServiceManager --headless, then drive Calc with PyUNO/unotools. For better xlsx fidelity when editing, OnlyOffice Desktop or SoftMaker PlanMaker often behave closer to Excel. For data feeds, I’ve used Hasura and PostgREST; I’ve also used DreamFactory to auto-generate REST APIs from SQL Server so Calc scripts skip ODBC pain. Quick WinBoat tweak: turn off Excel hardware acceleration to smooth minor lag. Using WinBoat for plugin-only tasks and LO + Python/UNO for automation covers most complex cases.
Zireael07@reddit
Thanks and happy cakeday!
PresentDirection41@reddit
...did you reply to the wrong comment? I'm so confused by this. I didn't even ask a question. And it really doesn't matter what you can technically do with LibreOffice, the fact remains that those vendors are almost certainly not going to port their plugins over.
FattyDrake@reddit
Sorry, still early. Should've omitted that first sentence.
I fully agree with you. I was just saying someone can do complex stuff with LibreOffice, but businesses aren't going to adopt it simply because the knowledge and support isn't there. The EU states that have hired their own IT and programmers have the resources which a small to medium business absolutely won't bother with.
PresentDirection41@reddit
Got it, that makes sense, thanks for clarifying. I made this point in another comment too, but I was supporting Windows back when my company moved from Office 2016 to 365, and even that change was a massive impact to our users that required a lot of training and a lot of updates to legacy Office files. The idea of moving to an entirely different platform would be even more impactful and expensive. We also once tried to switch users to Chromebooks if they didn't need a Windows device, and they all hated it because they couldn't figure out how to do things like they used to do with Windows and Office. People on this sub really underestimate the adaptability of your typical end user. They don't really know how to use computers and software in general, they just know how to specific tasks with specific tools.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Pretty sure these "vendor-specific Excel plugins" are just the "people use spreadsheet software for things they really shouldn't" thing magnified 100-fold.
PresentDirection41@reddit
Absolutely not. They are just ways to import data into your spreadsheets. You're making this up based on your desire to claim it's not a valid use case. It's not a good faith argument.
You guys badly need to relax. You sound like propagandists. You can't discuss anything normally and factually because you're always working backwards in pursuit of your claim that LibreOffice is a perfect alternative. It's just not.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Nothing about how businesses use spreadsheet programs is ever a "good faith argument".
Yet another bad faith argument. I never said or implied anything of the sort, maybe it's you who "can't discuss anything normally and factually"? This topic has nothing to do with using LibreOffice. This is a problem that everyone has to deal with regardless of platform. This problem would not change even if everyone used LibreOffice right now.
That aside...
...I really don't want to hear this from someone advocating for Microsoft products in a Linux subreddit.
PresentDirection41@reddit
And there it is, folks. Yet another delusional, freak troll lies about what I'm saying for the sake of pushing their bad faith argument.
I'm not advocating for shit, you soulless cunt. I am explaining how things work in reality. If you perceive a factual explanation as someone "advocating" for your opposition, you are a mentally ill person who can't be engaged with.
KnowZeroX@reddit
Most companies don't use plugins for excel at all. I understand your company does, but you are talking about a very small niche.
On top of that, I would like to note many so called "advanced uses for excel" are things companies shouldn't be using excel for in the first place
PresentDirection41@reddit
Oh yeah, only a very small niche of companies use SAP. Next time just write "I'm a clueless buffoon and should be ignored," it'll save a lot of time.
Born-European2@reddit
Why would you use Linux if you are so depended on the propitiatory Software?
Jacksaur@reddit
Why shouldn't we?
Shap6@reddit
because linux is neat and why not 🤷 not everyone who uses it is an ideologue. i dont care about running the odd piece of proprietary software if thats whats needed to do whatever im trying to do
Born-European2@reddit
But I add complexity layers, points of failure and instability. Do dualboot then.
Everyone now accuse someone who other logic to have "the wrong ideology" its so stupid.
Shap6@reddit
That’s way more inconvenient. Why would I want to reboot my PC every time I want to use a windows app when I could just use WINE or a VM, assuming the app in question works fine that way?
You saying you shouldn’t use proprietary apps in Linux is very much ideology. You seem against in on principle rather than function. Thats not just logic.
Cry_Wolff@reddit
Because Linux is about freedom, including freedom of choice.
Malsententia@reddit
Can't speak for the other guy, but like, 95% of what I do is in Linux, with FOSS programs. That remaining 5% is "I got stuff to do for other people that requires proprietary programs".
That 5% isn't going anywhere. So Winapps, Cassowary, and this "winboat" thing (yet to try it; i am interested), are what allow me to stay mostly in Linux but still play nice with others.
PresentDirection41@reddit
I'm not saying you would or wouldn't. I'm just saying folks grossly overestimate how practical of an alternative LibreOffice is.
FrozenLogger@reddit
That is two different things. Libre offce can and does run complex spreadsheets with forms and databse connections.
What you are describing is custom sheets that require excel. And how that must suck, because excel really is always the worst tool for the job 90 percent of the time. But I get that you are stuck with it.
PresentDirection41@reddit
I didn't say it couldn't. Please stop making up lies to enable your counter arguments. Please. You people make me want to fucking kill myself. I don't understand why I can't have normal conversations with normal people anymore without them instant lying because their self-defense mechanisms won't allow them to understand what I am saying factually. Please. I am sincerely asking you to stop fucking doing this.
FrozenLogger@reddit
You might need some help. Or maybe you are responding to the wrong person?
You said:
That is why I said that isn't true. That is not a lie. I use both interchangeably, that is also not a lie.
But more importantly, are you new to the internet or something? I am having a normal conversation, and you suddenly want to kill your self and lash out? That isn't normal. Who cares what I say, it shouldn't have any effect on you whatsoever, particularly over spreadsheets of all things.
I work with data and have done for 30 years. I have built complex things in both excel and libre office, with libre office often being the note complex yet easier to use solution. Sometimes it's the other way around.
Mostly these days the choice would be neither and load everything into data tables in python or SQL or a combo of both, but that is beyond the scope of this conversation.
But calling me a liar? You really should log off. Sounds like you have heard that before, therapy might help.
VoidDuck@reddit
There is a wide spectrum between "just basic spreadsheets" and "my company is entirely reliant on vendor-specific Excel plugins".
PresentDirection41@reddit
There's really not. Pretty much every company that uses Excel is going to have some kind of plugin that ties it in to some other product; that's where they're data comes from. None of those plugins exist for LibreOffice. Even when they don't, you have to understand that real users in real life are absolutely incapable of moving from one spreadsheet software to another without a significant amount of training. Even upgrading from Office 2016 to 365 was a massive undertaking for that reason. We tried to save money by deploying Chromebooks to users who didn't need a full Windows device, and one of the reasons our users hated it was because they couldn't figure out how to use Sheets.
The window of organizations that have no specific reliance on Excel and can easily switch away from it without a huge amount of churn is, in fact, incredibly narrow. It's not even really going to be a cost savings given the way Microsoft products are licensed and the fact that the project itself would cost a ton of money.
VoidDuck@reddit
I guess we just don't have the same understanding of the word "basic". You can do quite advanced stuff with LibreOffice Calc. I for sure believe you when it comes to big businesses with complex systems. What I mean is that there plenty of small businesses and home users who do more than "basic" stuff in a spreadsheet without having a complex system tied to it.
PresentDirection41@reddit
No, you are just misunderstanding me on purpose for the sake of enabling the argument you want to make. I never once said LibreOffice literally can't do advanced tasks. I said that most of those advanced tasks are reliant on plugins that LibreOffice doesn't have, and that users who do advanced things in Excel are used to doing them the Excel way and would require huge amounts of training to switch to a new platform, even if they aren't reliant on a specific plugin. I literally explained all of this in detail in my last comment, you are intentionally ignoring it and hyperfocusing on one specific statement just so you can argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue argue and never have to admit you're wrong about something. Give it a fucking rest.
VoidDuck@reddit
Calm down, mate.
oyMarcel@reddit
For most users who edit a document now and again libre office works fine.
But for a lot of more advanced operations it's just a bigger pain in the ass than it's worth.
FrozenLogger@reddit
As someone who uses both interchangeably, they simply have strangths and weaknesses. I have used libre when excel couldn't do things and excel when libreoffice didn't.
Neither is more a pain in the ass then the other, and sometimes one makes it harder than the other.
yousai@reddit
What does LibreOffice Calc do that Excel cannot?
Personally I've been using OnlyOffice in Nextcloud for the last five years and I long for nothing (given it's only my personal / family use)
FrozenLogger@reddit
I am sure the parity is closer now than it was over all these years, maybe excel now has some of these.
Regular expressions everywhere, including formulas. Formula descriptions and logic following. Python and javascript supported. Launching and executing calc from the command line including adding templates.
Before excel was XML it was just a binary. With calc you could manipulate the XML progromatically.
Calc handles dates and leading zeros in numbers better. Including the use of Easter Sunday or Third months Saturday from date formulas.
Calcs input and export of CSV files is much better including removing columns and very good tools for delimiters.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
99% chance your "more advanced operations" are just "I can't open Microsoft formats in LibreOffice" yet again.
griffinsklow@reddit
MS Office is unfortunately still the standard for collaborating in many organizations and it's not gonna change for most of them. The only other thing that is sometimes accepted is Google Docs and the choice is literally (1) MS Office, or (2) Google Docs. Nothing else. Especially if you want documents to look/behave the same way - even MS cannot do this with their online variants.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
No, this is just obsessing over Microsoft formats. This problem is solved by using OpenDocument formats.
newsflashjackass@reddit
Takes a lot of work to reinvent Winapps.
https://github.com/winapps-org/winapps
Ask casualsnek.
https://github.com/casualsnek/cassowary
LogicalError_007@reddit
Is it like WSL on Windows?
Or just a simple VM with Windows?
roerd@reddit
Isn't WSL2 also basically just a VM? (As opposed to WSL1, which was an actual subsystem in the Windows kernel, but which Microsoft ultimately couldn't get to be fully compatible. )
LogicalError_007@reddit
Isn't it much more integrated than a typical VM? Does winboat have direct access to root files of Windows?
That's why I asked.
roerd@reddit
It does have an extended integration with Windows to set up things like the drivers and making the Linux home directory available, yes. In my understanding, all of this builds upon capabilities already offered by Dockur, rather than being Winboat-specific, though.
LogicalError_007@reddit
Well, it's much more integrated than a VM.
Lanky-Safety555@reddit
A regular VM with Windows; there is no difference between this and creating your own virtual machine using qemu/kvm, except accessibility.
LogicalError_007@reddit
Thanks.
wasowski02@reddit
Started using winapps lately. This looks to be implemented the same way, but with a more user-friendly interface. Might try it, since manually running docker compose annoys me just a little bit.
ja26gu@reddit
As far as i know winboat doesn't have 3d acceleration so adobe programms will run like shit
Training-Ad-8270@reddit
Correct, winboat it uses FreeRDP to display the application running in the guest VM.
Automatically it's going to be slower than any similarly configured guest OS using paravirtualized display drivers, that is also running on KVM+QEMU like any other Linux VM solution.
But Photoshop 3D acceleration is crap even with a paravirtualized driver too though.
The only way to get acceptable 3D accelerated performance is to either run GPU passthrough to a second GPU (which I do), or use Looking Glass to do the same, except present it in a window on the Linux desktop rather than a second display (which I've tried and is amazing).
iamarealhuman4real@reddit
Hey clever internet,
I have an AMD card, and AMD onboard graphics, eg amdgpu_top shows two devices in the device list, my
#0 RX 7600and#1 Radeon Graphics GFX1036/Raphael/Mendocino. Can I use the onboard chip for pass through?I dont really want a whole second card in there but the ability for basic acceleration in a VM would be good.
ThomasterXXL@reddit
fuser -uv /dev/dri/by-path/pci-0000:*:00.0-{card,render};lspci | grep VGAYou cannot pass a GPU that is currently in use.
Whether or not a GPU can be passed depends on the GPU itself, driver-support, your motherboard and its BIOS/UEFI settings and what the virtual machine does.
To put it simply, there's A LOT that can go wrong that random strangers on the internet won't be able to account for, so your best bet is to just try it.
It'll help a lot if you're comfortable with reading logs and using virtual consoles (terminal without desktop environment, because this eliminates one of the major failure points for GPU-passthrough: graphical applications).
SEI_JAKU@reddit
You sure can, but you'd want to use the dGPU as the passthrough here. Just let Linux keep the iGPU, it doesn't ever need as much just to function to begin with.
iamarealhuman4real@reddit
I want Linux for most things, I game on Linux, live on Linux, etc. TBH I dont even have a windows VM but if I did and I think I'd want some acceleration there.
I assume the reason for dGPU pass through is performance, not a technical reason?
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Yes. If you don't think you need a dGPU for Windows stuff, there's nothing wrong with using the iGPU. I just figured you'd want to use the dGPU for GPU-heavy software, that's all.
Training-Ad-8270@reddit
The other way around, almost certainly. (On-board as host GPU.)
It depends on how old your CPU is, whether it supports fine-grained enough IOMMU grouping.
It may also be possible to use your discreet GPU as your primary host GPU and onboard as passthrough, depending on how flexible your UEFI settings are.
I'll be honest with you though, even with my arguably more straightforward setup of two discreet GPUs, and being very familiar with Linux and virtualization, I struggled to get mine working. Lots of fumbling around in EUFI, tweaking GRUB, and following multiple guides.
But once I did, it's been flawless ever since.
My setup is a little similar in that I want the GPU in the first PCIe slot for Windows (more lanes), and the second for Linux. But EUFI and Linux very much want to grab the first slot, first. It took some fiddling to disabuse them of that behavior. But now it has been working for years.
ChatGPT is so good now, it very may well be able to walk you through it for your specific setup.
Not only do I use two GPUs, but also two USB cards, so that I have two fully independent desktops in one PC. And I use a KVM switch so that I can even switch wich OS has which desktop (or one OS for both monitors).
But honestly, that is literally no different, practically that just running two desktops. And If the linux desktop were lower-spec'ed, since it didn't need to also run Windows at the same time, two PCs could even wind up being cheaper overall.
In the end, it's fun. But not easy.
I won't be able to give you specific steps for your specific rig and EUFI though. Try ChatGPT and be specific with details and goal. (Barring that, dreaded Google as a last resort.)
anaemic@reddit
That's okay, they run like shit on windows too..
d0pe-asaurus@reddit
not sure how adobe apps work but honestly it feels like they're not even running natively? Like you know how you hover over firefox while its not focused firefox will still respond. Adobe apps only respond to user intention when they're the focused application. I hate that and it doesn't help disprove that adobe runs like shit
SquaredMelons@reddit
It's probably programmed for the PS3 and running through emulation.
DynoMenace@reddit
I don't have anything to back this up other than an anecdotal timeline but I think Winboat is a fork of WinApps? They seem to work almost identically. But Winboat massively improves the UX and seems to work a lot more reliably, so I've been using it for some obnoxious work software too.
cunasmoker69420@reddit
Does winapps have 3D acceleration
Low_Village_5432@reddit
So you have a good guide on how to set it up? I tried following the documentation but got really lost
wasowski02@reddit
I followed the official guide and set it up using docker compose. It was really just copying the configuration files and editing them to suit my needs (following the comments in the file). Did you manage to get the Windows docker image up and running?
Low_Village_5432@reddit
Maybe I followed the wrong guide. The one I read used podman
wasowski02@reddit
Try the one in the official README: https://github.com/winapps-org/winapps. Following the route of docker is probably the easiest, but podman should be very similar.
my_new_accoun1@reddit
I use winapps, docker starts on boot but sometimes it takes up too much ram so I manually disable it
wasowski02@reddit
I need winapps on my laptop, so that's not an option unfortunately, it eats into the resources way too much to let it autostart.
StovepipeCats@reddit
I hadn't heard of this. I had to get set up with Microsoft Office recently and tried QEMU/KVM for a Windows VM but it was just not responsive, so I tried VMware Workstation instead. Relying purely on CPU rendering, the difference between the two was night and day. QEMU/KVM was maybe a 10 fps experience, while VMware feels like a solid 30 (still not great, but tolerable for document editing). I may give this a go if VMware shits the bed.
necrophcodr@reddit
With qemu you do also need to ensure the correct drivers are available and installed on the guest, and that the proper parameters for handling display output is done for qemu on the host.
bbroy4u@reddit
is there any guide/blog available for this?
necrophcodr@reddit
Yes https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/PCI_passthrough_via_OVMF
There are other articles detailing it too. It is not simple.
StovepipeCats@reddit
This is GPU passthrough which is a whole step beyond just getting software rendering working optimally. Could use a guide on that.
necrophcodr@reddit
Sorry you're right, i was answering a bunch on specifically this and my client didn't show enough context that I see this was different. I'll have to rectify this.
StovepipeCats@reddit
I installed spice-guest-tools but that didn't really make a difference. I couldn't figure out how to get QXL to work any better than without the driver.
pugglewugglez@reddit
Same. What’s the deal with that? Anybody have any idea?
InflationUnable5463@reddit
big problem with this, i have a potato and cant really afford running a vm
Savings-Finding-3833@reddit
The solution to Linux issues is to use Windows in the end
SEI_JAKU@reddit
No, the correct solution is to leave Windows in the past and go full LibreOffice/SoftMaker.
stratcat1974@reddit
Really lmao
B1rdi@reddit
I recently used this to get a bootable W11 stick with Rufus, it was a pretty good experience. Was surprised by how seamless passing through the USB stick was. I wish it supported 60fps+ though, but I've understood its a limitation of RDP. I wonder if you could run a sunshine/moonlight type of thing to it instead.
And before anyone says it, no,
dd'ing the Windows ISO does not work.VMFortress@reddit
The Looking Glass integration will not happen. The overhead of design was way more than the dev realized. It's much different than just directly using native support for Apps over RDP.
TibixMLG@reddit
It will happen, and of course Looking Glass is not meant for individual apps, rather the whole desktop. IDD does not need a second GPU, nor does it provide hardware acceleration, that's not the point, check this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg50X9w5llI
It's listed under GPU acceleration for the FAQ entry because novice users sometimes complain about FreeRDP artifacts and glitches, and not having a high refresh rate, and they associate that with GPU stuff. LG IDD will fix that. I agree that maybe it should be separated, but it's not meant to be there as a misleading statement. We could and most likely will do LG IDD *and* a separate driver for acceleration.
I'd also recommend checking this issue for more details:
https://github.com/TibixDev/winboat/issues/239
VMFortress@reddit
I've seen the video, I'm one of the contributors to the project.
My point is it reads rather misleading. We don't need more people thinking LG is a paravirtualization solution or that it can capture on a per-app basis.
hpstg@reddit
Microsoft should just transition Windows to the Linux kernel. They will lose exactly zero corporate contracts, or casual buyers.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
The only worry is Microsoft slowly taking over Linux by influencing the public, thus ruining what we have.
leoingle@reddit
Haven't really understood why they have. I guess to avoid the subject of ppl who would want to do in-place upgrades. Couldn't see how that would be possible.
tapafon@reddit
I would at least try something like Softmaker Freeoffice (proprietary, requires a free key after a few days, but at least it has a native Linux version).
It works for me (it cases where Excel/Planmaker are required), but it may not work for you.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
SoftMaker is a right and proper alternative, but this entire issue is caused by the worship of Microsoft formats. It's easily solved by just saving your files in OpenDocument formats instead.
gtrash81@reddit
Am I the only one, that thinks Winboat is a nice piece of engineering and
a complete threat at the same time?
Why support Linux at all, if you just wrap it around Windows?
Dekamir@reddit
That's a nothingburger and the same thought what killed Windows Phone.
gtrash81@reddit
Same had been said about upscaling (FSR, DLSS) and now you must use it to get even 60FPS, because it is used as lazy/cheap/quickfix solution.
SEI_JAKU@reddit
Not only is this wildly untrue, there's a limit to how far this can be pushed, and that's a wildly different situation anyway.
Journeyj012@reddit
winboat is an easier VM solution, we've had libvirt for nearly 2 decades.
smirkybg@reddit
Curious how this would handle things like Insta360 Studio, Autocad?
Leonkeneddy86@reddit
Question, can you play BF6 with this? Or even Warzone?
cain261@reddit
To game via windows on Linux youd have to set up a VM with GPU passthrough which is quite a hassle. And like the other comment multiplayer games can ban you for using a VM. Some people claim they can get around this but I don’t know
IntroductionNo8419@reddit
they call it VM spoofing. Like rename the device ID, modify the kernel for the timing. And yes it's so hard.
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
dont think games run well using winboat. doesnt have GPU acceleration.
Leonkeneddy86@reddit
That's the bad thing, I wish someone could decrypt this
Lanky-Safety555@reddit
Won't help; anti-cheats detect virtualization, and it is impossible to circumvent that.
siete82@reddit
And even if I did, anticheat actively detect VMs and ban them
blietaer@reddit
YEs indeed, already ditched WinApps for WinBoat, maybe the end of dual-booting omarchy and Win11 ! :)
kiralema@reddit
It seems like a neat project, but...
Until I get a clear answer how Winboat handles Windows license, security and virus protection, I am not jumping in. I am not exposing my Windows banking apps to an application that does not guarantee that my sensitive information isn't going to be stolen.
Inside my Windows VM, at least I know that there are anti malware mechanisms in place (such as Windows Defender). Winboat does not seem to have such mechanisms.
Mithrannussen@reddit
Isn't obvious? Is the same Windows container from WinApps, which in turn downloads directly from Microsoft Server, unless you specify otherwise
https://github.com/dockur/windows
kiralema@reddit
No, it's not obvious. How is malware protection realized? Just because it downloads directly from Windows server and runs in a sandbox doesn't mean that the running program is secure and is not subject to malware attacks and intercepting keystrokes (such as passwords inside the container) that can be captured and sent across the net to a remote hacker.
Also, under what license is it downloaded directly from the Microsoft server? Don't tell me it's MIT, because Microsoft Windows does not operate under the MIT license.
Lanky-Safety555@reddit
You may provide your own ISO if that is concerning you; it is not using a license, as it is possible to use Windows without one (with few caveats). K, once again, you may provide your own. And as with regular Windows, the security is handled by MS Defender.
kiralema@reddit
Then how is it different from a regular KVM/QEMU or VirtualBox VM?
roerd@reddit
It is using a regular KVM/QEMU VM. The biggest advantage of WinBoat is imho that it does all the configuration necessary to run Win 11 in a VM automatically.
kiralema@reddit
So, in other words is it an alternative to the Virt Manager? What about virtio-win-guest/spice tools?
roerd@reddit
Whereas Virt Manager is designed to support multiple VMs of multiple operating systems, Winboat is fully dedicated to running a single Windows VM. It is based upon Dockur, which, to my understanding, has its own method of installing the VirtIO drivers. And it uses FreeRDP instead of SPICE to display the Windows apps/desktop.
ipaqmaster@reddit
Ding ding ding.
japzone@reddit
Microsoft allows running Windows in a VM in its license. That's what this does. It's your decision whether you want to pay for an activation key or run Windows without activation, which Microsoft also allows with certain features disabled. Same with Microsoft Office.
As for security, it's as secure as running Windows is. All its native malware tools will operate like normal, except things like Bitlocker. If Windows does get infected, how protected the VM will keep your Linux Host is highly variable. So just keep proper cyber security hygiene like you should be doing anyway.
If you're referring to how trustworthy WinBoat itself is, as trustworthy as any other open source project. Either look into other users' experience using it, or review the open source code yourself.
Mithrannussen@reddit
It is obvious.
You are literally running the same Windows as you would under virtual machine or bare metal, unless specifying a custom ISO there is nothing different.
Also, about malware and vector attacks, what could Winboat or WInapps do to mitigate it? In Winboat you can choose not to share your home folder, other than that, given the integration aimed by these two projects, security will be defined by what the user does with their system.
I do not know what license the Microsoft images themselves are distributed, as I do not care, but obviously they are not activated. Theoretically, you need the license key or "alternative" methods...
The Dockur repo I linked earlier is licensed with MIT
necrophcodr@reddit
It's just Windows in a VM. It handles it like you do.
weirdgermankid@reddit
Security concerns are valid.
Hixxes@reddit
But when is gpu pasthrough coming? Need it for CAD / design programs..
necrophcodr@reddit
When it's done. It isn't implemented yet. This is a free community project, so you're welcome to donate money or time to make it happen. Or you can wait until someone has the time and money to do so.
anaemic@reddit
Jesus I hope someone less poor than me donates to make this happen, because if I could CAD in linux with work approved branded software, I would never need to use windows ever again.
necrophcodr@reddit
You can do it manually. It requires more setup but is very possible to do, and you CAN get to the same level of effect as this does, just with much less convenience of setup.
anaemic@reddit
With QEMU / KVM GPU passthrough still? Or is there something new on the scene?
necrophcodr@reddit
Yep, using PCIe passthrough. There's also Virgil3d, and work is being done to make this VirGL-like capability available on Windows https://github.com/virtio-win/kvm-guest-drivers-windows/pull/943
anaemic@reddit
Ah one day maybe I'll buy a second gpu and passthrough. I could never for the life of me make it work with a single gpu.
Valwex63@reddit
Do you think it's possible to achieve roughly the same performance?
necrophcodr@reddit
With PCIe passthrough you'll get roughly the same performance as bare metal, for the GPU side of things.
apfelimkuchen@reddit
I already can use fusion360, but with the remote desktop settings. Not perfect but it okay while waiting
Raminagrobi@reddit
What is the difference between using Winboat and a regular virtual machine?
necrophcodr@reddit
Convenience. That's it.
DonutsMcKenzie@reddit
Well, there's also the abstraction of being able to launch a single Windows app as if it were a native window on the Linux host, which isn't super important or anything, but kinda cool.
necrophcodr@reddit
That's the convenience part.
Dakota_Sneppy@reddit
Looks like some really nice convenience, like a virtual machine ready to eat :3
drinkplentyofwater@reddit
YUM!!!
bbroy4u@reddit
how is it different from winapps in terms of performance?
_Sahil_Goel@reddit
Can it run league of legends??
Moldybot9411@reddit
Any experiences with 4gb ram? I wanna test ist on my old surface
BIRD_II@reddit
You could say... It excels!
Badum-tshhh
DaveX64@reddit
Excel-ent! :)
ourobo-ros@reddit
Word!
DaveX64@reddit
A Powerful Point!
undrwater@reddit
A powerful Outlook!
DaveX64@reddit
We need Access!
F54280@reddit
A very effective Teams!
Turnbomb@reddit
Anyone know if you can set files default to open to a winapp? Like get docs to always open in word through winapp?
svartpuma@reddit
Does anyone know if you can run SQL management studio with winapps or winboat? That’s pretty much the last puzzle peace for me to switch 100% to Ubuntu at work.
walllable@reddit
Tried this out a little bit ago... I'd LOVE to use this if it worked with multi-monitor setups. None of the devs have multiple monitors apparently, so they didn't realize that it's buggy if you have more than one I guess.
mephisto9466@reddit
Try libreoffice instead
Traditional_Ice7475@reddit
Exc What?? 😵💫
rzm25@reddit
Has anyone tried cracked software on it?
CosmicTurtle24@reddit (OP)
Yep. its basically just windows.
rzm25@reddit
Cool! Thanks for the reply! Not sure why I'm being downvoted for that question, I tried googling multiple times and got no answers
UnLeashDemon@reddit
It's just windows in Docker it should.
KidouSenshiGundam00@reddit
Can it run wemod?
andymaclean19@reddit
Doesn’t excel run in a browser these days? I run the office tools like that on Linux all the time.
Slow-Secretary4262@reddit
Is very promising, i could not manage to access my nas from it, does anyone knows if its possible? Also i tried to run fusion360 but i can't login, its very buggy, basically another window with edge for the login opens but you can't click on anything in it, probably running it from the windows desktop is the way. Ps: i suggest you to create a iso with microwin using the chris titus utility so it already partially debloated.
dashhrafa1@reddit
Can this run games with anti-cheat like LoL? If not, is it possible whatsoever?
we_come_at_night@reddit
Not without a lot of tinkering, as the anti-cheat doesn't allow running in VM. Not really worth it. If you wanna play it, gotta dual boot.
dashhrafa1@reddit
Yeah I am dual booting. But the second there is anti-cheat support for Linux Im ditching windows for good
FurySh0ck@reddit
This might actually be the thing I look for, I needed a way to get Word natively working on Linux
Trick-Weight-5547@reddit
What is winboat? Is it a fork of winapps??
Winapps is alright just ain't getting video editor working without having 2 gpu's in computer and one just to passthough
Trick-Weight-5547@reddit
I head if winapps what is winboat
bananamadafaka@reddit
What a great logo.
XaerkWtf@reddit
Is it really that good? Do you guys know if it has good compatibility with drawing tablets? (I want to run clip studio, the only reason I have windows 10 rn)
TONKAHANAH@reddit
these utilities are cool and all, but they're just vm's with a fancy veil
personally I think I'd still just rather use the full VM at that point.
shadow29warrior@reddit
Can you please answer this? If they work then I can fully switch to Linux and completely ditch windows
Does it run excel vba
Can excel formula from workbook successfully refer and fetch value from different workbook in which is stored locally
Can vba stored in workbook 1 do stuff on workbook 2 like open, copy values, delete rows and stuff?
Interesting-Tree-884@reddit
How does it work? It's written on their site that it runs applications that don't work with wine.
Lanky-Safety555@reddit
It uses a QEMU/KVM virtualization.
paaland@reddit
Does Winboat support secure boot via virtual TPM and bitlocker?
Lanky-Safety555@reddit
As it uses qemu/kvm in the background - yes.
Chaussettes99@reddit
Can anyone with deeper knowledge explain how this isnt just a prettied up virtual machine? Everything I can find online about winboat pretty much says it's just a windows virtual machine which is kinda like yeah, no wonder things run better in it than through wine in most circumstances.
HighlyRegardedApe@reddit
Can it run Unreal engine on linux with a nvidia card? That's my main question. Only reason I dualboot. Game crashes are fine, project crashes are not.
Lingonberry_Obvious@reddit
Is this built on top of Wine?
Background-Plant-226@reddit
No, winboat just runs a VM in a docker container
chrisoboe@reddit
No it doesn't.
You can't use virtualisation in docker since this is a feature provided by the kernel.
And you don't want to use emulation since this would kill the performance.
DarthPneumono@reddit
...what are you talking about?
Docker is just nsenter with extra steps, and anything in a typical Docker container can (with the right permissions) interact with any part of the host's kernel, including virtualization.
necrophcodr@reddit
The extra steps including setting up layered filesystems and firewall rules.
DarthPneumono@reddit
Neither of those have anything to do with kernel access, not sure what you mean.
There are ways to do it, hence "with the right permissions".
ProfessorFakas@reddit
Eh? That isn't true.
Yes, virtualisation is handled by the kernel, but why would that stop you from using it in a container? All you'd need to do is mount the KVM device.
A container is just some namespaces with bits added on top.
necrophcodr@reddit
There's not much if anything on top. Docker used to be much slower initially, but when proper features for cgroups and namespaces were all there, they need only tape them together appropriately.
ComprehensiveYak4399@reddit
lmao what makes you think you cant use kernel features in containers when the kernel is literally the only thing shared between the host and the container? like i get that not everyone knows everything but dont just speak confidently on stuff you dont know about.
jess-sch@reddit
You can use everything in docker that you can use on linux. It's just a matter of configuration.
CelDaemon@reddit
Not true, WinBoat works using QEMU in a docker container, with some extra niceties for better integration with the rest of the system.
Oerthling@reddit
No. It's using Windows in a container. It just hides most of it.
Bermuda_goof@reddit
No, it's a full blown windows virtual machine
Aislerioter_Redditer@reddit
What version of Excel are you running? Is it the latest Office 365 or an older version? If it's Office 365, I would look forward to efforts by Microsoft to break it, just like they are doing with dual boots. I think that's probably one of the reasons Windows 11 requires secure boot, so they can frustrate Windows users. It worked for WordPerfect and Quattro Pro...
undrwater@reddit
They broke 365 for dual boot users? How?!?
Aislerioter_Redditer@reddit
No, if Winboat runs the latest Office 365, MS will break it so Winboat doesn't, just like Windows updates are causing people's dual boot configurations to fail. MS even had an agreement with DR DOS to make Windows for Workgroups compatible, an they still screwed them It's what they do.
undrwater@reddit
Certainly they take over the boot loader during updates. Ruining their own userland because they perceive the user is dual booting seems short sighted or counterproductive.
Either way, I agree with you. They do screw with people, which is why I have little experience these days with that operating system .
bbroy4u@reddit
your machine specs?
Crazy-Tangelo-1673@reddit
I toyed with it for a while yesterday. Set up Quickbooks desktop and it worked fairly well...the screen resolution is fairly crappy compared to using Virtualbox. It's does lag a bit compared to Virtualbox or QEMU. I don't feel that it's ready to d
murlakatamenka@reddit
Doesn't work with Podman :(
Pristine_Investment6@reddit
You think we might ever get Windows gaming with something like this?
It could circumvent the anti-cheat problem.
Recipe-Jaded@reddit
No, it wouldn't. Anti-cheats know when they are in a VM.
pudds@reddit
How well does it integrate with the filesystem? Like, if I download a file on Linux, what's the pieces for working it it excel? Do I have to move it over to a different drive?
Any idea how well teams works? I'm especially curious there with respect to notifications.
NikoOhneC@reddit
Your linux home directory is mounted as network drive in windows.
victrix85@reddit
Can't run photoshop. Try to make selection with drag and drop.
Inevitable_Mistake32@reddit
I tried Winboat. Wouldn't run anything a VM wouldn't run and the no GPU passthrough is a huge no-no for me.
Basically, as others have said, it is nice that it lowers the barrier of entry to VM emulation of apps, but its a wrapper and no more than a person with the knowledge could also do in 5 mins.
cnekmp@reddit
Anyone tried to use Microsoft Intune Portal with Winboat? Does it work?
ScootSchloingo@reddit
I have no idea how people are using this with ease. I’ve been trying to get Photoshop to work and it’s been such a huge hassle for me.
hime_pro12@reddit
There's no gpu passthrough
borrow-check@reddit
I wonder, this can be done with incus right?
Shot_Rent_1816@reddit
I'm just throwing this out there you could use Linux Mint Cinnamon and get on the web browser and do it Microsoft apps online
joe4942@reddit
Not really familiar with this software. Based on some quick googling, it seems like there might be some security issues?
KurosakiEzio@reddit
Tried VS Community 2022 there, resizing components didn't work, and that small detail broke me lol
jnnxde@reddit
Excel runs in a web browser and if you got anything that's to complicated for Excel online, you shouldn't use Excel anyway, but a proper programming language
natermer@reddit
There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with using Excel as a programming environment, except that it is proprietary.
As a concept it is a "real programming environment" in all the same ways that Python is a real programming environment.
Stryker1-1@reddit
Tell that to the companies who have dozens of linked workbooks keeping their business afloat.
lucidbadger@reddit
Unfortunately, people who decide that you use Excel are usually not the same people who have to use it.
Stardog2@reddit
If you are going to run Windows apps, you might as well switch to Windows. You are still being forced into having a Microsoft account, use OneDrive, etc. You are agreeing to be tracked at your most sensitive points of your life.
We know MS has taken a bad turn when Google's and Apple's tracking efforts start to sound "reasonable". It seems we have lost the war on privacy, and are now looking for the best terms of surrender that we can get.
cain261@reddit
You think running office programs inside of a VM is the same as Microsoft having full access to everything you’re doing and all your files?
CountOnly9229@reddit
I wonder if I can run Ableton with it
Severe-Divide8720@reddit
Yh, I'm testing it out and it is pretty brilliant. You literally cannot tell. It's Linux Services for Windows. LSW ;(
BeowulfRubix@reddit
I wonder how this compares to Cassowary or Winapps.
Similar.
RudePragmatist@reddit
I as someone that knows a great deal about virtualisation would argue that you hadn’t allocated enough resources to your VM and or you were running it on the wrong storage type.
You’ve not provided any details as to your hypervisor setup or what resources you had allocated to it.
I know a lot of people using virtual desktops and successfully using Excel with pretty large data sets.
Journeyj012@reddit
Doing the same for 3DS Max :)
Pierma@reddit
Is it possible to set up cpu pinning? So performance is even more reliable?
Zeznon@reddit
Even after fixing what the program said, it still doesn't recognize my user being in the docker group, or that the docker daemon was running
userhash@reddit
ive been using onlyoffice lately, worrks very good
InstanceTurbulent719@reddit
I mean if you use qemu/KVM and install spice guest utilities in your windows VM you'll probably get the same level of responsiveness.
I hope it gets more user friendly though. Like parallels desktop in MacOS, and hopefully with gpu passthrough
RoomyRoots@reddit
Yeah, i think this abstracts too much from the fact that it's still windows. I would rather have the VM going on that a workaround to display it. Unfortunately we are still bound to the horrible HW acceleration Windows have on Qemu.
Drak3@reddit
I recently installed it, too. I don't actually have a use for it yet, but it's neat to have, and nice to repurpose my mostly unused windows drive.
NoEconomist8788@reddit
Well yes but if you need msoffice or photoshop for the work so run windows normal. For me Windows runs as a VM inside a Docker container sounds too sophisticated, too complex, and yet still not complete