Do American's Believe in Secret Organisations?
Posted by banisheduser@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 42 comments
I'm watching the X-Files.
One of the running themes is this "group" that are behind the scenes controlling what is happening.
Do many Americans believe there is a group operating outside of the government that is keeping things hush hush and influencing various things (not particularly government)?
Waltz8@reddit
It's important to differentiate between secret organizations and secretive organizations. In any case, both exist. But the degree of the influence they have is often exaggerated by conspiracy theories. The Freemasons for instance don't have magical powers nor perform human sacrifice.
MagicalFishing@reddit
my grandfather is a Freemason, it's sorta just a frat house for 60 year old white dudes, not as exciting as the conspiracies made it out to be
ELMUNECODETACOMA@reddit
The conspiracy is actually the other way around.
60 year old white dudes, particularly well-educated and higher-status, have disproportionate political power. And a disproportionate number of them are Freemasons.
So it's easy to look at it, cross out the common term, and say "Freemasons have disproportionate political power", getting the map confused with the territory.
GreenBeanTM@reddit
My grandpa was part of the Elks club, even was the “grand exalted ruler” aka the president at one point. A lot of their work is very public facing but they do have a “secret society” part. I don’t know really anything about it but I know the fact my grandpa was a part of it put a strain on his and my dad’s (his son) relationship.
Now I’m curious, time for a 2am deep dive 😂
Current_Poster@reddit
Near where I used to live, the local Freemason lodge opened its doors for an open house as part of First Night celebrations for new years.' The highlights were hot food (like, clam fritters) and these older guys singing four part harmony. So, kind of there with ya- no conspiracy theories i I ever heard of features the old 'Snap, Crackle, Pop, Rice Crispies' jingle sung barbershop style. :)
meowmix778@reddit
When I was a kid my great uncle took me and gave me a masons Bible. I was like here we go gang Im solving the code.
But theyre just dorks LARPing a magic game basically
moonwillow60606@reddit
You just described my brother, who is in fact a 60-ish year old, white dude who is a Freemason. It’s a hangout.
Jumpin-jacks113@reddit
The only Freemason I know is originally from Iran. He loves it.
NotUntilTheFishJumps@reddit
Good point! There is a distinction between the two, but of course both exist. The details likely differ, though.
Current_Poster@reddit
Spot on. I read a very no-woo, no-conspiracy reference book on secret societies where the author cleanly differentiates between societies that have secrets and those that themselves are secrets.
It's also really hard to keep an organization that actually does anything a secret.
LordKyle777@reddit
This is pretty much it right here.
gigisnappooh@reddit
Can’t say, it’s a secret.
ginamegi@reddit
Most Americans, no. Some Americans, yes.
(You can kinda copy paste that answer to any question on this subreddit)
ProfessorrFate@reddit
Many Americans latch on to conspiracies (and the idea of “secret organizations” supposedly behind them) to: 1. explain complex or unknown (to them) phenomena that defy easy explanation or understanding 2. to assign guilt or blame (and thus vilify) to people and/or groups of “others” that they fear or misunderstand
GreenBeanTM@reddit
Conspiracies are modern day religions, only difference is we have the knowledge to disprove most of them currently and don’t have to wait a couple thousand years for it to be developed.
kjm16216@reddit
America is a big place. Whatever it is, somewhere there's someone who believes it.
And somehow that guy is always in my Uber pool.
La_Rata_de_Pizza@reddit
I want to believe
NotUntilTheFishJumps@reddit
Same, Scully
Midnight2012@reddit
It makes life simpler and less chaotic for some.
WrongJohnSilver@reddit
The entire SCP Foundation blew up in popularity because it just makes sense, you know?
cryptoengineer@reddit
I'm a Mason.
One of our clichés is 'It isn't a secret society: Its a society with secrets'.
Fappy_as_a_Clam@reddit
Not that's silly.
I think they operate inside the government.
ScaredProfessional89@reddit
No. Secret Organization conspiracies are an Illuminati conspiracy
soulmatesmate@reddit
Does and open access to internet have in it someone who believes in ?
Yes to all.
There are MANY people in the USA who believe we moon landings were faked, the pyramids were built by aliens, the Earth is flat and many others.
We absolutely do have secret organizations. How secret, how big, how powerful varies. Some simply don't reveal their day-to-day operations, others are working towards their goals in utter secret.
We also have actual cults of personality: some guy decides he is a god, or a profit or an angel and gets people to send him money and live with him.
DiscontentDonut@reddit
Yes and no. We aren't all superstitious, paranoid conspirists with tin foil hats. What we are is informed about historical events.
As an example, one could look at Purdue Pharma. During the 80s and 90s opioid crisis, it eventually came to light that Purdue was not just influencing doctors to prescribe their products, but sending either intimidating salesmen to bully their point or incredibly attractive sales people to sort of pillow talk their way into sales.
Pill mills became...not encouraged, but definitely not discouraged since it meant wads of money coming in. Even some local police might stand outside of the pill mill clinics because they were being paid under the table as pseudo body guards.
It would always wind all the way up to politicians' pockets. Purdue would dump money into campaigns and gifts like a sugar daddy, wooing a range of politicians with voting influence.
On this particular item, I highly recommend the Netflix documentary "The Pharmacist." A man's son loses his life over a drug deal from getting hooked on opioids, and he goes out of his way to uncover a pill mill, and then the reasons behind it. He can't understand why the government isn't doing anything about it. Come to find out, the FBI had an undercover operation going on and it took them years to get sufficient evidence.
I bring this story up because it's one of the more recent, and more publicly accessible examples. Though we're no longer in the opioid crisis as a proper noun, we are still fighting addictions caused by those actions today in a rippling effect.
Our issue isn't that we so much believe in secret organizations, so much as secret dealings of seemingly public organizations. Political representatives have been proven to have taken bribes many times over. Oil companies, social media companies, pharmaceuticals, outside governments, etc. Each of those I listed, there's at least one in the public zeitgeist that's just well known for their "influence" even when nothing is publicly proven.
This devolved into a bit of a rant. But you see my point. It's heavily based in reality. MKUltra, Holmesburg Prison, the Watergate scandal are all examples of what our government is willing to do to and against us. We are just statistics to them. So it goes without saying that if our own government encourages deception and manipulation of the American people, why wouldn't they allow large corporate entities to do the same?
dcgrey@reddit
That's good framing. We do have organizations that quietly control lives to some extent, but they're systems of organizations, where none of them is looking to be a master of the universe but where their incentives align to end up with a powerful, malign system.
These systems are complex. Their big benefit to the participants is they lift blame from individuals and place it on the system. Vaccine conspiracists don't blame their pediatricians for offering vaccines; they blame "the drug companies". Bernie Sanders doesn't call out individuals for being rich and skirting taxes; he blames "millionaires and billionaires" writ large and "the corporations".
Democrats make the communications mistake of criticizing systems, as if systems are a rhetorically meaningful target for dismantling them. When Trump talks about conspiracies, on the other hand, he always names/caricatures people, creating an endless parade of maligners he can tell people to fight. Democrats made fun of him for continuing to attack Hillary Clinton years after their campaign against each other, but it gave him a way to embody the alleged secret forces running the Democratic party and, in turn, federal civil servants. I.e., here we are, by attacking Clinton, he gets to fire thousands of workers during a government shutdown with the explicit support or indifference of the majority of Americans.
MattinglyDineen@reddit
Nice try. We aren't talking.
TheBimpo@reddit
There are 330+ million Americans who believe in everything from Pizzagate to Kubrick doing the moon landing to Sasquatch. So yeah, there are some people who believe in basically anything.
Is it "common"? Of course not, there are just a lot of us and the internet gives the fringe the opportunity to be loud.
Cruitire@reddit
I actually took a college course on secret societies by a fairly well respected historian.
That really just means organizations whose membership and often activities is not public knowledge.
Everything from the Freemasons to the Rosecrutians are secret societies, definitely exist or existed, and influence society.
In fact some of the influence they can have is pretty large.
Secret organizations exist and their existence is pretty well documented.
accidental_Ocelot@reddit
we have many secret organizations in the United States and the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_society.
also not listed for some reason is the bilderburg group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Meeting
Sans_Seriphim@reddit
Dimmer Americans believe their are secrets conspiracies to take over the world.
Brighter Americans know the rich have already done that.
Mrfixit729@reddit
Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
Dense_Amphibian_9595@reddit
Well Joe Stalin’s attitude was that two people could keep a secret. Just so long as one is dead.
All these conspiracy theories like the U.S. not really going to the moon, so many people would have had to have known what was happening - that it wasn’t the moon, they were filming in an indoor film studio in LA. The more people who must know production details and the more, food service workers, new actors as astronauts. Hundreds involved in that scam would have been leaking it.
79215185-1feb-44c6@reddit
I attend a secret organization every friday night - my local game store.
badinvesta@reddit
Yeah the CIA and the FBI lmao
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
Yeah, it turns out it was Israel
FormidableMistress@reddit
I belong to a secret organization I guess, but it's more of a loose affiliation. We're not controlling things and pulling strings like what you mentioned, but at least one president and probably several members of Congress are members.
fromwayuphigh@reddit
There's a lot of conspiratorial thinking in some circles, yes. Most of it falls between "simply wrong on the facts" and "moon-barking, swivel-eyed lunacy". The unsexy, straightforward, and overt explanations aren't abstruse enough to make people think they're being herded around by a cabal of cryptic lever-pullers they'll never understand, so they make shit up to ease their disillusionment.
aMoose_Bit_My_Sister@reddit
you have no idea just how many Americans really believe this stuff.
panda2502wolf@reddit
The NSA and CIA could be considered in the light secret organizations but there are others that make up the Shadows that have run the nation for a long time now. Mostly corporate entities. The electoral college is how they manipulate American politics in there favor.
GhostOfJamesStrang@reddit
Do you not?
Hypnox88@reddit
There are several secret organizations that have been brought to light. To assume more doesnt exist would be foolish