Corpses of 250 animals found with surviving animals eating the dead in "breeding ground of horror" in Spain

Posted by thebelsnickle1991@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 82 comments

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Turgius_Lupus@reddit

My father got involved in the U.S> dog breeding scene in the 90s, as a get rich quick scheme when he saw how expensive Labrador puppies where when getting my sister one (who he ended up repeatedly breeding), only to discover after throwing everything into it that no one operating legit and proper made a profit at it, and eventually slipped into a horrible puppy mill operation (I still have nightmares about seeing the kennel conditions of as a kid) as he doubled down on cost cutting, before he eventually tried to move it to Eastern Europe and discovered the kennel clubs are much more strict than in the U.S. Seriously if you are trying to obtain a pet from a breeder make sure they are legit first. It's a very expensive hobby you dont make money at from being ethical.

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YourFuture2000@reddit

The best is to never get a pet from breeder.

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Perfect_Cost_8847@reddit

Unfortunately the kennels are wall to wall pit bulls, and they lie about lineage. This is a dangerous breed for even experienced owners. The VAST majority of people should not adopt unless they have a genetic test confirming 0% pit bull or similar.

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BikebutnotBeast@reddit

The sad truth is pitbulls (American Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and American Bully, plus mixes) should not be allowed in homes with children or elderly, and really ever be around anyone other than just their owner. Just look into all of the deaths and disfigurings. It's the same story every time. Pitbulls and pit mixes accounted for 65-66% of U.S. fatal and disfiguring attacks from 2005-2019, despite comprising of only 6-8% of the dog population.

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feioo@reddit

Pit bulls are their own breed distinct from American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and American Bullies, and it's important to be aware when counting those statistics that there is no official means of determining a dog's breed after an attack, and is generally a flat guess unless the owner or breeder provides documentation. Because the dogs are nearly always destroyed in those cases, the breed is rarely verified after the fact.

So when you give numbers like that, the reality is that 6-8% of dogs in the US are pit bull terriers (at the very lowest estimate, and with questionable sources - the highest estimate being 20%) and 65-66% (I'm using your numbers because they vary wildly between sources and as I mentioned, are nearly impossible to verify) of fatal and disfiguring attacks are from dogs who look visually similar enough to be pit bulls or pit bull mixes, but may include mastiff mixes, boxer mixes, and other types of bull terrier and bulldog mixes, or may include purebred AmStaffs, Staffy Bulls, and American Bullies who are not included in your 6-8% number. In short, your statement corrected for accuracy is more like "pit bulls account for between 6-20% of the US dog population, and might be responsible for 65-66% of fatal and disfiguring attacks in the US, but an unknown portion of that may be unrelated but similar-looking breeds." To quote Mark Twain, the three types of lies are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I worked with dogs for many years, and I will agree that not every breed is suitable for all owners. Terriers as a group are not easy beginner dogs, pit bulls are especially large and strong terriers, and there are serious issues around who is breeding them and why and how they're going about it. Personally, I don't mesh well with terrier personalities and wouldn't own one myself, but of the many, many dogs of countless breeds I've worked with and known from birth to death, they're not even close to the top of the list in terms of likelihood of aggression. They don't represent any of the serious injuries I've witnessed or helped with, and blanket statements about how dangerous they are seem to always come from heavily biased sources like dogsbite.org.

I strongly encourage owners of pit bulls to do research about their breed to understand their dog's instincts, temperament, and potential reactivity, but I recommend the same for all dog owners. I also recommend that all dog owners use training as a means of continous communication, but sadly there in my experience, responsible dog ownership is not a part of the culture here. If it was, I think there'd be a lot less scapegoating of "dangerous" breeds.

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Arrival_Joker@reddit

WHat breeds did you work with that were mor aggressive? I have heard Shar Pei's are extremely dangerous as they have no "tells"off aggression.

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feioo@reddit

Shar Peis and Chow Chows are both pretty hard to read and can be biters for sure, but they aren't that inclined to go looking for trouble. For me it's probably Huskies at the top of my list, in terms of likelihood of reactivity and willingness to demonstrate their feelings with their teeth. German Shepherds are up there too - both popular, fairly intense breeds that can get out of hand with an inexperienced owner. They're not actually the most aggressive - that honor tends to go to smaller breeds, like dachshunds and various terriers small enough to carry under your arm, but since we're talking about serious injuries I figure it's the bigger breeds you're asking about.

In terms of dogs I've known that have caused serious injuries, the breeds can vary pretty wildly - it's more about the individual dog and their issues. A Viszla, a couple Goldens, a Chow/Husky mix, an Australian Cattle Dog mix, etc. A few short-haired mutts of indeterminate breeds that might have included bully breeds, or boxers, or something similar-looking. On pit bulls specifically, the one I've known that stands out to me as being unusually aggressive had been a rescue from a meth lab and got in a fair amount of dog fights while I knew him, but his opponent would almost never have a scratch on it when we pried them apart. Interesting dog, I think ended up going into a program to be trained to work in narcotics.

Last thing, when it comes to dangerous dogs- when you take breed out of the equation, there's three factors that correlate heavily with serious and fatal dog attacks. Dogs who are unaltered (not spayed or neutered), dogs who are allowed to run together as a pack, and dogs left unsupervised with babies and small children. A combination of the first two factors is especially dangerous - dogs are, after all, descended from wolves, and their pack hunting instincts remain strong. Culturally, we could do a lot better with the understanding that every dog has the capability for violence and as such, should be robustly trained and responsibly managed by their owner. Even the small ones, even the breeds we think of as the "nice" ones.

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Arrival_Joker@reddit

This was super cool to read thanks. I think your point about realising that dogs retain some measure of wolf in them is very key. A lot of people treat dogs like toddlers. I feel there's little to no understanding or respect for the animal in the dog, they "humanize" the dog too much. I find these are the most irresponsible owners as they end up with a dog that hurts them or others due to their perpetual infantilisation.

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feioo@reddit

The tricky part is that in some ways, we should treat them like toddlers - at least in terms of intelligence and learning capability, dogs are mentally equivalent to a 2-5 year old child, so there's some value in using that to figure out how to effectively train them. Just, you gotta remember it's a toddler-level brain in the body of an adult animal with deep predatory instincts. I've had people be appalled when I'd mention that dogs love squeaky toys because they sound like the death screams of a small animal, which is always funny to me. And yeah, those tended to be the types that thought training your dog meant going to a puppy class and getting a cute little diploma, and then never thinking about it again until behavioral issues start popping up.

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angelolidae@reddit

You can't convince these nonces with actual facts, the pitbull hating circlejerk won't allow it

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Sufficient-Turn-804@reddit

I think you’ve misused the word nonce, dawg

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angelolidae@reddit

Killing myself rn

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Sufficient-Turn-804@reddit

Sorry bro 💀

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avelineaurora@reddit

nonces

Uhhhh...

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angelolidae@reddit

I already edited out geez, I should check more silly internet words before using I thought it meant idiot or dummy, it sounds like it

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avelineaurora@reddit

In your defense, I think people did use it like that forever until the current age of, "Hey, maybe we should actually do something about how many fucking pedos are in society" made everyone realize it had an actual definition lol

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Flightless_Turd@reddit

Honestly I thought it was too lol. Maybe because it's sililar to dunce

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lblack_dogl@reddit

They shouldn't be around an owner. They shouldn't exist.

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phaedrus910@reddit

Too late for that champ. Unless your answer is kill them all.

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CertifiedSheep@reddit

You could just neuter them all instead, and make possession of a pit a felony starting like 15 years from now. The problem would get solved without any killing.

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scottLobster2@reddit

We already kill any dog that shows itself a threat to the public, and kennels put down animals when they run out of space.

So yes, outlaw their breeding and possession or impose strict licensing requirements for owners proving they have the skill and capability to responsibly handle them.

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Macho_Mans_Ghost@reddit

How about we do this with guns first?

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TheLantean@reddit

This is the answer. Once they can no longer be bred (including mandatory neutering, can be a vasectomy/tubal litigation for those owners who claim to be against neutering for hormonal reasons) the problem slowly solves itself humanely over the next 15 years as the dogs live out their natural lifespan.

This completely sidesteps the "kill em all" ethics and instantly tells you anyone who tries to tug on your heartstrings with this plea is arguing in bad faith.

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carolnuts@reddit

This might be an American experience. Kennels in Brazil are full of friendly mixed breeds.

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Samiel_Fronsac@reddit

Lots of nice "caramel trashcan-tippers" and other mixed cuties!

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Gooliebuns@reddit

I know quite a few people here in the NYC area who adopted "satos" from Puerto Rico, satos definitely fit the "nice caramel trashcan-tippers" description.

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BiCloverly@reddit

That is the cutest nickname ever for both a stray dog and also my girlfriend. I’m gonna use that

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Samiel_Fronsac@reddit

That is the cutest nickname ever for both a stray dog

It's a literal translation of the name for the overwhelmingly most common type of street dog in Brazil, like this bad boy right here.

and also my girlfriend.

...who am I to judge? 😅

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CapMcCloud@reddit

Something about street dogs just makes them all gradually shift towards this guy. It’s him. John Dog.

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thetrustworthybandit@reddit

In my experience, they are also (when taken good care of) some of the healthiest dogs I've ever seen. They get none of the health problems related to breeds. We had one that was still alive and kicking after 15 years.

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BiCloverly@reddit

I want one 🥹

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biggiy05@reddit

The stray dog or the girlfriend?

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otamaglimmer@reddit

I don't think that guy's girlfriend is up for adoption...

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re_Claire@reddit

Yeah the UK too.

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lblack_dogl@reddit

Dude's tag says he's in Denmark, but yeah that is my experience in the US as well.

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Macho_Mans_Ghost@reddit

Incorrect

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sixtyfivejaguar@reddit

There's always thus one asshole.

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GodofsomeWorld@reddit

Obviously the pitbull named buttercup is 100% safe and the baby it ate must have done something to trigger it because it would never harm anyone.

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sketchyemail@reddit

I will also say unless you know dog behaviors and can handle behavior issues you shouldn't adopt. The dogs being taken to shelters are not there because they are so well trained and have no issues.

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SovietPropagandist@reddit

Pit bulls are not dangerous breeds, just bad owners.

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ExaggeratedSnails@reddit

No. They are not family dogs.

This mom was a Pitbull advocate and her pit ull rewarded her by killing her two small children in front of her

https://wgntv.com/news/nexstar-media-wire/mother-tried-to-shield-children-killed-in-memphis-pit-bull-attack-family-says/

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SovietPropagandist@reddit

Bad owners. Properly trained dogs no matter the breed do not do that.

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Rukoam-Repeat@reddit

If the average person is incapable of training a dog to the standards necessary to safely own it, wouldn’t it make more sense to not allow unqualified people to own those breeds of dogs?

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biggiy05@reddit

There's no reasoning with people like that because they consciously choose to be obtuse to facts that don't fit their views.

I've been handling and training dogs for almost 18 years and still have people trying to argue with me that it's all about how you train the dog. Those people also usually think ethical breeders are contributing to the number of dogs in shelters. It's pointless.

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SovietPropagandist@reddit

I agree with this, and I'm in favor of more strict requirements on pet ownership in general to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the animals.

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angelolidae@reddit

You talk about pitbulls like an 1800s american talks about black people, "0% or similar" a won't become a murder machine if has over 5% of pitbull mixing lmao

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Historical-Gap-7084@reddit

I once volunteered at a shelter here in Colorado. There was a very large, friendly pitbull there. They asked me to walk him for his daily exercise so I did. The moment he saw dogs in outside activity kennels he went nuts and tried to attack them. He was too strong for me to control and he nearly pulled me down and I ended up hitting the corner of the steel pole on the kennel on my face.

I had to get another worker to help me get him inside because I simply was not strong enough to control him.

Days later when I was on my volunteer shift again, I was called into a meeting where I was blamed for this and told that the incident "set back his training" because he'd never behaved that way before. Yeah, right, I call bullshit.

I quit volunteering there not long after because I was so disgusted with them. I never did see that pitbull again, though. I suspect he was put down.

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ExaggeratedSnails@reddit

Go to an actual reputable breeder and not a puppy mill.

If you're a first time dog owner, adopting from a kennel is taking a gamble in terms of temperament, health issues etc that are things that are screened for by a reputable breeder

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angelolidae@reddit

Yeah but buying any breed of dog will add alot of medical expenses having an inbred dog does, having a mutt will have half to none of those health expenses.

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caedin8@reddit

This isn’t really true. Breeds are bred for something. Hunting dogs that have been bred for performance and obedience for hundreds of years are extremely clean and often great dogs, lacking any kind of issues with early morbidity or behavior issues for example.

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angelolidae@reddit

All modern breeds are highly inbred, your "hunting dogs" are landraces which are increasingly rarer nowadays with the explosion of dog breeds

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QuackingMonkey@reddit

Proper mutts who have been mutts for many generations? Yeah, usually pretty healthy. Mutts who have recognizable breeds in their recent bloodline? Could also have double the health issues. Adopting is a great thing to do, but it is very much a gamble, since shelters don't tend to know their dogs' bloodlines and don't do genetic testing like proper breeders do.

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halcyon_aporia@reddit

Not from reputable breeders. They screen for issues and know how to avoid them.

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angelolidae@reddit

All breeds will have a barrage of more health problems than mutts that's just par for the course

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pmyatit@reddit

Buying from a breeder is a good thing as long as it's not a dodgy one.

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UltraHawk_DnB@reddit

Or get your pets from a shelter!

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WooBarb@reddit

Mm...Poland isn't Eastern Europe.

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Blenderx06@reddit

It was until they got enough wealth to join club central Europe. Lol

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firegrillz@reddit

Highly debatable.

I mean I think of it as Central Europe but at the same time I'm not gonna pretend it doesn't share a hell of a lot with the indisputably EE countries it borders like Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc. and if someone refers to it as Eastern Europe, it's usually pretty obvious from context which similarities are being highlighted.

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Pyrhan@reddit

Right. Wherever you are in Europe, Eastern Europe always starts east of your border...

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Off-Target@reddit

I live in Western Europe, it is probably one of the first counties you would think of if someone said “Eastern Europe”

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inaccurateTempedesc@reddit

https://youtu.be/r_5Slnkzekc?si=iu_-pAbnpTi-qfOI

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NoHandBananaNo@reddit

Found the Central European!

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Turgius_Lupus@reddit

Politely disagree.

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Kestrel21@reddit

Lmao. Cope harder.

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Puffycatkibble@reddit

getting my sister one (who he ended up repeatedly breeding),

This is an extremely risky sentence to post.

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SouthStation3358@reddit

Ethical breeding is an oxymoron

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tecate_papi@reddit

An ex-girlfriend of mine got a puppy from a backyard breeder. It was exactly as you say. It was very clear he was not making much money at it, but he also ran a really ethical operation. We did a few visits to his place and the dogs all lived in the home with the family, were well-fed, loved and taken care of. The time and energy he spent on each litter, not to mention the cost he was putting in, there's no way he could run it as a business (he was a contractor full-time). He would have made more money working a minimum wage job than being a full-time dog breeder.

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NoHetro@reddit

Adopt, don't shop.