I think I made a terrible mistake leaving the Netherlands. Should I go back?
Posted by EndOfTheLine00@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 76 comments
I lived in NL for 8 years as an expat until COVID. Back then I was in a bad mental place and was struggling at work. Then my family decided to "deal" with this by basically going behind my back to tell to my sibling living in Norway "Your brother is going crazy in NL, he has no friends there, he is completely isolated and I am worried that one day he might fall down at home [seriously] and there's no one to help him. Get him a job closer to you". My sibling then started spamming me with job offers. I used them as interview practice and one of them accepted me. At the time my therapist thought it was a good idea and my friends did as well. I thought "Sure why not" and went.
I came to regret this. I converted my savings to NOK and they tanked in value almost 20% with no chance of recovery. The job market here is tiny for tech. I literally asked about the market to my family and they said I would have no problem finding jobs and only when I got here did they start talking about the disadvantages of such a tiny population. My family seems dead set on me getting a job in either oil or defence, both of which I would rather not since it goes against my ethics and I am afraid of getting stuck with a bunch of conservative assholes for coworkers. My company seems to be in dire straits, I still don't speak Norwegian (even back in NL despite getting lessons all the way to B1 I still couldn't speak it) and I worry about never working again.
I also hate not being in the EU. My sibling seems to be against it and apparently factored in their decision to move away (something I did not know about). I hate the limited selection of goods. I hate everything being so much more expensive. I hate the fact that this is a tiny country sandwiched that might be tag teamed by the US, Russia and EU to some extent.
Should I go back to NL? I worry that the housing crisis might mean that I cannot get a rental place. Also I would likely have to relocate out of pocket.
gounisalex@reddit
It is not clear if your therapists are psychologists or psychiatrists. A psychiatrist can prescribe mood stabilizers or other medication that can help you deal with brain-chemistry issues you have no control over. Then, once you are in a stabilized mood and/or have ruled out psychiatric conditions, everything will be a bit easier.
You still need to do work with yourself, take responsibility for your actions and decisions. It's easy to blame others when things do go as planned, but at the same time we shouldn't swallow every hurtful action against us without conveying our emotions.
You will find the way, but you need to put some effort first.
bright_01@reddit
Go back
CommuningwithCoffee@reddit
Do what thy will (and what will make you happy), not what thy family will!
As for the housing crisis, it’s everywhere. Maybe you can take a trip or hire a real estate agent to help secure a place prior to moving back and hanging in hotels or Airbnb until you get a lease. Consider what it would cost to move your things vs replace all of them or move inly some of your things and replace most items. I’m guessing that will be the majority of your cost, right? You can shop for flight prices. And yes you’ll likely have to pay deposit for a rental but you may be getting one back from your current place? It could be that timing the move and planning might keep your expenses as low as possible.
As for whether you want to or “should”… well, it sounds like you prefer NL to NOK but only you can make that decision.
whole__sense@reddit
I'd say it all depends on how old you are and what do you want in life.
I also hate not being in the EU and limited selection of goods. It's insane how much you have to pay for good quality cheese here because foreign cheeses are tariffed to oblivion and local cheeses are priced even higher than the imported tariffed cheeses. Only the plastic tasteless mass produced cheeses reasonably priced.
But I've decided to stay because of three things: my partner, property and children potential.
I want to own where I live and hate renting. I want to eventually have kids and raise them in a safe environment and I want my partner to be happy and fulfilled.
NL seems like a much more fun, vibrant place for someone in their early 20's without any commitments, but breaking into the housing market seems like a gamble.
If you're young and can find a job + housing there, seems like a fun adventure?
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
I'm 38 but single. I have no ties.
Team503@reddit
Wait, DO you fall a lot? In your original post you made it sound like a ridiculous concern, but here you're implying that it's at least a somewhat regular occurrence.
That is a legitimate and serious safety concern. Have you sought medical attention to determine the cause of your falls?
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
No, I never fell in my house in my life. Yet my family uses this as their main argument as to why I shouldn’t live by myself. “That is something that happens to more and more young people” “we know people it happened to” “we are worried” etc. I think it’s an excuse.
Team503@reddit
Ah, thank you for the clarification. I'm glad to hear you don't have an issue with falling! :)
I've mentioned it in other comments, but the level of control you grants your family is deeply disturbing to me. I understand that some cultures maintain far closer bonds to parents and family than American or Irish culture (the only two I can say I'm reasonably knowledgeable about), but this isn't a bond and this isn't advice. This is you letting them bully you into compliance.
I'm truly concerned that you seem to take no ownership of your own life. You allow your family to bully you into something it doesn't seem like you wanted (moving in the first place), you blame them for said move, you seem to want someone to tell you what to do regarding this move, the way you've mentioned therapists that "don't give advice", everything you say seems to indicate that you're a passive observer in your own life rather than an active participant.
I'd encourage you to take the time to sit down and really consider a few things before making a decision regarding moving. Use whatever process you need to; make pro/con lists, write explorative essays, journal, debate with an AI, whatever!
Off the top of my head, start there. Work over that list with your therapist(s), run it by your best friend or most trusted person, then sleep on it for a week and go back over it. If you're someone who indulges in drugs or alcohol, take a break and stay completely sober for the week between writing that list and when you review it - a clear head helps!
And if it helps, I have never once heard of "young people falling" being a thing at all, much less "happening more and more." Your parents may be worried about you, but that's not why they're worried. Have you thought about actually asking them what they really think?
oscars163@reddit
Hope OP reads this
Dull-Formal2072@reddit
I sympathise with you because feeling stuck in a country you don’t like and feeling pressure from your family sucks. I think you need to reframe things a little bit to help yourself make a decision.
First of all, nothing is forever and you can try to do different things and live in different places throughout your life. So try not to think that the next step is almost “do or die” or that if you do it then that’s it forever. I know moving is not easy so I’m not diminishing what comes with it but I think feeling that “Hey, I can try this out and if it doesn’t work out I’ll figure out what to do then”.
I don’t know what your family is like but your family probably wants what they think is best for you, and while it might not align with what you want, it probably comes from a place of love. However, just because they think you should do something and they pressure you to do something does not mean that you have to do it. Instead of blaming them, try to reframe it as “After 8 years of living in The Netherlands and especially during COVID I felt that I was depressed and needed change. My family strongly suggested that Norway would be a good option, and after some consideration I thought I’d try it out. Now I’ve come to realise that I don’t like it and perhaps it wasn’t the best move but at least I tried and now it’s time to figure out what’s next”.
As adults I think it’s important to grasp that we literally are no longer children. As adults we normally try to keep our parents happy, both out of love and a bit of obligation. That’s because we respect our parents (if they earned it during our life) and want to see them happy. However, as an adult they need to treat you and respect you as one. If they say want you to do ABC and you say “Thanks, but I’d rather do DEF”, then they can say they don’t like it but they should respect it. Otherwise, in my opinion, they are being controlling and toxic. So unless your parens threatened with cutting you off from the family, I don’t see why you should blame them because you could have always said “I appreciate what you’re saying but I’m not doing that.” Even if they did threaten you, you could give them the finger and live your life, as difficult as that may be but the other option is to abide and resent which is also not healthy.
Old_Motor_9558@reddit
You should consider becoming a digital nomad, at least for awhile. Work remotely, travel, gain perspective, and have some fun. Spend time in places that are very inexpensive to live compared to your First World tech income, live at a higher standard and save money too. You may need more intimate companionship to feel happier. That is more readily available in some countries than others, particularly for a well traveled, relatively high income, exotic foreigner. More sunshine and warmer weather in the winter might help too.
sideyard19@reddit
I can somewhat understand the ethnical concern about oil (although in fairness other affordable forms of energy are not necessarily available in many parts of the world).
But on defense, I don't get that. Europe is fabulous and the ethical thing to do is to defend it from the violent criminals that run countries like Russia and China (and sadly at the moment the U.S. it seems). For me personally, I would be honored to have the opportunity to contribute to the defense of Norway or almost any European country. They are amazing over there.
Able-Exam6453@reddit
A lot isnt clear in your post. Expat in NL….from where? If from outside the EU originally, you managed to find a job in Norway extremely easily. How have you the freedom to move back and forth, are no visas involved? Im taking it therefore that you have an EU citizenship for somewhere.
Living in Europe, EU or not, and not gaining any expertise in the local language in 8 years is pretty poor show. Do you live solely among your compatriots? That'd explain a lot about your general depression about being there. If youre goung to be abroad as an expat, for heaven’s sake live in the general population.
I don’t know how you can describe Norway as a tiny country and in such dismissive terms, but suit yourself, you are obviously overwhelmed with negative feelings.
I’d move back to NL, and determine to make a go of it this time round. Ditch that useless therapist (are they really a bona fide therapist?) as a matter of urgency, they've clearly done more harm than good. If this is the fifth you've tried, and nothing has helped, consider life without therapy. Can it be any worse in terms of progress?
Try taking responsibility for your own moods and outcomes for a bit. You might find you’ve more resilience than all this has let you believe
You must have friends in Holland who could do something right now about a rental place for you, but in any case I’d make the move. You've got savings, make that money serve you. (Oh and of course relocation should be at your own expense, why wouldn't it?)
I think as someone else said, you've been encouraged to deflect responsibility for yourself for a long time, and this is very unhealthy indeed. If you want to remain in the EU at all costs, you must make a bit of an effort in this direction. Pay no heed to parental pressure at your age, that’s a really ridiculous arrangement.
If you are sure and certain that Norway is not for you, stop worrying about it and move back.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
Yes, I am an EU citizen. I’ll add that to the post.
I don’t live solely among my compatriots. In fact my family constantly criticizes me for not seeking them out. Honestly I don’t think anyone is worth knowing solely because they share my nationality, I care far more about values and opinions.
Honestly I usually spend my days working then going home and not having much energy to do anything. My therapist seems to think this is normal. I tried getting ADHD or depression diagnoses but it seems everyone I talk to believes “If you can work then you do not have such things/This isn’t America, we don’t pump people full of drugs/Exercise more”
Sadly I lost contact to everyone I knew in Holland. They never bothered checking in.
peanutbutterloverx@reddit
Your therapist seems to have a really small-world view of mental health. “Exercise more” might help some people, but it’s not a fix for the kind of exhaustion and loneliness you’re describing. You sound self-aware and thoughtful. It might help to find a therapist who recognizes that and digs deeper instead of oversimplifying.
Team503@reddit
Well, if you don't exercise, "exercise more" is pretty much never bad advice (barring physical health conditions), and it probably would benefit OP to do so (it would benefit ME to do so, too!). However, you are correct in that it is nowhere near sufficient to handle things like autism or ADHD.
OP needs to find a therapist/clinic/doctor that will perform a clinical diagnosis and provide the appropriate combination of treatments (for both of those conditions, it's usually a combination of CBT and medication, but not always).
peanutbutterloverx@reddit
Possibly. I’ve also gone through many therapists and have been on and off about 17 different meds in the last five years. Finding the right therapist for oneself is not easy and medication isn’t always the answer. One almost always have to be a “Guinea pig” to test meds because they work differently for everyone. In my case, meds only made me worse and I took on new problems by going on them, because now I’m I the process of a slow taper and it sucks more than before I was on any meds. Last October, I got a trainer and started weightlifting five days a week. I got really jacked and was in amazing shape physically. But my mental health didn’t improve much because my environment was the same. Perhaps OP’s issues can be addressed with CBT or meds, but maybe not. My therapist here has been telling me to stabilize emotionally first and then make a decision about leaving for another place. But every year that I’ve stayed, things have gotten worse and I’ve felt more stuck and less able to leave. A lot can be said for a change of scenery and a fresh start and striking while the iron is hot. I’m not saying that running from one’s problems is the answer. But if one of the main problems is hating where one lives, I think it makes sense to leave.
Team503@reddit
Certainly, it's not easy to find the right therapist. Your therapist is giving good advice - wherever you go, there you are - and moving might not solve anything while introducing new mental health challenges.
There's tons of documented science about physical fitness and depression/mental health. I would imagine, though, that there's a point of diminishing returns. Going from out of shape to decent shape is probably a big change, but going from fit to jacked, probably not so much.
The question is do you hate where you live because of the place itself, or because of your own mindset? If it's your mindset, your depression, undiagnosed mental illness, whatever, then moving will not only not do any good, it'll create yet more problems that'll make things even harder. So i guess I'd tell you that it's not so much that you (or the OP) shouldn't move, so much as it is that you should take a long and serious look at why you want to move and what you think will change because of that move before you make a decision one way or another.
It will require a lot of honest self-assessment (that's never easy) and facing that you are the cause of a lot of your problems. I don't know, obviously, but it sounds to me like OP at least is the cause of their own problems, and I don't think moving will necessarily help much until OP can own that these are their decisions, that they are responsible for their life, and that they have to take ownership of their life and their feelings because no one else is going to do it for them. If OP doesn't do that, I don't think OP will gain anything by moving as far as their happiness goes.
Able-Exam6453@reddit
Could you find work in Ireland maybe? I‘m assuming you are highly skilled, and though jobs aren't as freely available as heretofore, for the well qualified it’s probably different.
At least everyone speaks English here, so that's a major alienation vanquished. (Im still perplexed. You say you’re from southern Europe. How come your English is so excellent, yet Dutch eluded you for eight years? This is just nosiness though, nothing more!)
In a smallish university city such as Cork or Galway, you might find groups with interests similar to yours, whom you could join and with whom you’d be able to branch out into other groups too. It’s so much easier when you all speak the same lingo. Mature students are common, so your age wouldnt matter, but in any case, special interest groups wouldn’t restrict their membership to undergraduates.
The main hurdle with Ireland is accommodation, but although availability is the main problem, if youve a liberal enough budget you'd find somewhere.
I think Ireland is a good place to come for those who feel they've never really fitted in. You can join in as much as you care to, but should you decide that remaining somewhat apart is your natural style, you'd not be any kind of outcast because of it.
You know Im sure that Ireland is very beautiful, and with a small population. Everywhere you look, theres…landscape! Of every kind imaginable bar palm-treed tropical beaches, and Himalayas. Or fjords.
(Get a car and you could spend time out in the wilds just breathing deeply and reminding yourself that not all therapists have a clue what they are at.)
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
I learned English when I was a very small child. At those ages it's far easier to pick up stuff from TV.
Isn't Ireland also going through a housing crisis as well?
Team503@reddit
Yes, we are. One of the most extreme in the world. 30,000 new houses built this year, 60,000 people immigrated here, not including our own population growth.
Housing is very expensive and even harder to come by - but it is possible.
doepfersdungeon@reddit
I can only speak personally. NL depressed the hell out of me. I am glad I left. But if you loved it there , then try and move back. Housing crisis is insane, perhaps Norway is the same. Norway is hella expensive but NL isn't cheap.
My advice, seek nature. Wherever you are it can be your guide. You can often live on less with alot more satisfaction. Maybe it's the rat race that is generally depressing you. Lots of people aren't designed to sit in from of a computer all day , living in flats in polluted urban environments.
Perhaps put yourself into something different and sed how you feel.
Sons sunshine helps as well. Really changes tour perspective on life.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
See, everyone keeps going on about nature and so forth.
Well, there's a lot of nature here. I can go hiking whenever I want. It's highly assessable by public transport-.
But I don't. I prefer museums. I mostly stay indoors. I don't see what the appeal of nature is. I don't see the appeal of people either. I think there's something deeply wrong with me.
Team503@reddit
Not liking nature isn't necessarily a problem, and some people are natural introverts, but humans are social creatures, and we do need some level of human interaction to stay mentally healthy.
I know you've mentioned you've done therapy, but you need to find a therapist that actually works for you and listens to you so you can start to work through these issues.
LordofSize@reddit
London? Lots of tech jobs, lack of nature. Loads of museums
doepfersdungeon@reddit
Explains alot really. Perhaps if everyone is saying the same thing, give it a go. You habe acknowledged that your view or the world may be somewhat warped. Depression will do that. I'm merely offering the real world as a possible antidote. Not a panacea.
lkap28@reddit
Money comes back - but you can’t get back the time you spend feeling unhappy. If you take the financial aspects out of your pros/cons list, is there any reason for you not to move back? You seem pretty certain from the way I read this :)
Adept_Pumpkin3196@reddit
Well, he also seems unhappy, no matter where she/he is. I think this is deeper than the country or even the family. Whoever said they needs to address this before they go and move again is right. While moving is incredibly stressful, but it feels like a brand new start in 2 to 3 years. They’re gonna be right back at this spot again.
Team503@reddit
That's exactly right - wherever you go, there you are is OP to a T.
lkap28@reddit
Agreed. I was the first comment on this post, but coming back to it now and seeing the comments OP has made since - this is not just an issue with the country.
Open_Perspective_326@reddit
I am getting ready for NL to NO right now as a mechanical engineer. Yes there are more jobs in NL but the pay is a step down even with euro appreciation. In addition the COL between the two countries has narrowed. On a final political note as someone who is engaged to a Norwegian from a Norwegian military family I just don’t think they are assholes in the same way Dutch conservatives are But hey I can speak b1 Norwegian, have a job offer, and a whole family there before I’ve ever left NL so maybe I just have rose tinted glasses on.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
How exactly did you manage to learn Norwegian not living here? Just talking to your fiancée? I ask because most teaching apps are crap and I don't want to spend more money on lessons if I end up not learning anything like it happened in NL.
Team503@reddit
I see a repeating pattern with you - therapists never help, classes don't teach you anything... you are the common denominator here.
Open_Perspective_326@reddit
Norwegian is my fourth language so I knew tf I was doing. Basically I use Duolingo free because o have an old academic account (no adds or energy), I google translate words when I know I will need one I don’t know yet while speaking (let’s me put myself in challenging situations), speak to everyone when you can but always stay present in conversations, learn to listen and observe (you will start to understand the flow of the language much better). This method is not enough for c1 or even high b2 for most people so you may need a class to seal the deal. YMMV.
Team503@reddit
"I tried getting ADHD or depression diagnoses but it seems everyone I talk to believes “If you can work then you do not have such things/This isn’t America, we don’t pump people full of drugs/Exercise more”"
I got mine here in Ireland just fine, and no one has ever said things like that to me.
Kind_Honeydew1885@reddit
Why, at almosr 40, are you letting your parents have such a big say over your life? Moreover, why are you asking conplete strangers if you should go back? If I said "yes, everything is awesone here", would you move back just because I said so, despite your lacklustre previuos experience? Perhaps, you should start owning your decisions and their consequences
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
OK, I am going to ask a question that will make me sound even worse:
Who ARE you supposed to ask for advice as an "adult" then? My family knows nothing about my field. Neither do my friends. I ask strangers for advice because the Internet is filled with people from all walks of life that can provide different perspectives. Hence I ask these sorts of questions in multiple subreddits. But apparently that's bad. Who am I supposed to ask then?
I guess that the answer is "You are supposed to form friendships with people in your field and ask them" but sadly I am not good at that. I sit at my desk and do my job. I have never been good at making friendships. So what, am I supposed to know everything by myself? And yet I was just berated in another sub for not asking for help at work. So what is the answer here?
Team503@reddit
No one can answer this question for you. You have to decide if you think you will be happier with your life if you move back versus if you stay put, no one else that has ever or will ever exist in the entire universe can answer that for you definitively.
We can ask guiding questions, like what makes you think you'd be happier if you moved back or what makes you unhappy about your life now. We can give generic advice - which actually I think in this case applied very much to you - that wherever you go, there you are.
It sounds to me like you are a deeply unhappy person. I don't think being one place or another will make much difference for you. I know they're different countries and cultures, but somehow I doubt there's that much difference in culture between the two nations. I think that if you move, you will be just as unhappy there as you are where you are now.
Fundamentally, your family controls you on an extreme level. I know parents remain involved and have more influence in some cultures, but you're a 40-something adult who's literally halfway through life. You should be making your own decisions. Asking for input or discussing things with friends and family is fine, but you let them pressure you into a choice that made your life significantly worse for seemingly no reason.
But we can't answer the question you're asking. At the end of the day, you have to decide what's best for you. That's what being an adult is - taking responsibility for yourself and your life. Others can lend a hand or offer a bit of advice here and there, but utlimately, it's on you.
xenobiotica_jon@reddit
No advice to give here, but just a curious observation: As an American with many EU connections/friends/family, I have come to appreciate that this is one of the biggest cultural differences, and an often an initially-unseen deciding factor for people to remain in the US or flee for home. It's not just that US families/parents don't operate this way on average, it's that there is a pervasive rejection of it. If I'm still meddling (or worse, managing) my son or daughter's finances, housing, relationships, job applications, car, etc etc more than a few years past university, then the child is seen as a failure and the parent as neurotic or narcissistic. I think a lot of EU expats come to the US for money and end up staying because it's the first place they can breathe free of their overbearing family... and other EU expats flee back to their home country because despite the money and opportunity they cannot handle life disconnected from mommy's teat and daddy's law.
You sound like the former, but of course I'm not suggesting anyone venture to the US right now until the current foolishness consumes itself, but OP you really should consider a third way: Both of your current options are very problematic, and your current worldview is very small. Go make it bigger. Force the issue. Find somewhere further with a more substantial tech sector that operates mostly in English, get a job there, and get away from the this-or-that of your current life. Berlin, Paris, or Zurich all come to mind if you can't stomach going very far and the EU/EC is a deciding factor. Or get crazy and head to Manila, Singapore, Vancouver, or the like. Get the job, force the issue, make more space in your head, keep going until the family voices fade into the wind. Don't go back until you can do it on your own terms.
TL;DR: Dude, you need to get out more.
mbrevitas@reddit
That’s quite an arrogant way of putting it. Valuing closeness to one’s family, both physical and in terms of taking into account their advice and opinions, is not being daddy’s and mommy’s girl/boy and the family being overbearing. And usually it’s not a one-way street; people usually both give and take advice and opinions with their family, if they’re close. Anyway, it’s not an EU vs USA thing; much of the EU is closer to the American viewpoint than to the southern European one, and southern Europe (including several EU countries) is not that different from much of Asia (for instance) on this point.
Little_Inspector9726@reddit
It’s interesting, because one could hold the same “go back to mommy and daddy” viewpoints of Asians in the West…but with my own experiences abroad, it doesn’t hold.
People change when they’re in a foreign land long enough. Some fight it, some embrace it, but in the end, the individual will change; change is inevitable. Then there’s the matter of linking up to diasporic identities abroad…which brings its own sets of challenges and benefits.
Little_Inspector9726@reddit
You don’t need to know everything. None of us “adults” know what the hell we’re doing, we only have a narrow band where we kind of do.
I’ve never been good at making friends either, and I’m about your age.
I take all advice—from loved ones, random strangers, and myself—with a large grain of salt.
RuslanaSofiyko@reddit
You sound quite a bit like me. There are plenty of situations where I feel like I need a lot of advice, but that doesn't mean I don't process the advice and think for myself. I believe you do that, too. You said you were in a bad way when you left the NL, so cut yourself some slack, then. As for making friends, I'm terrible at it. I have ADHD and autism, but I mask both so well, that people don't realize something is wrong. They just find me too annoying to bother with. Having never been diagnosed until nearing retirement, I didn't know how to compensate for all that.
OK, I'm American, but this is absolutely wrong. I got a PhD, held teaching jobs, and married and raised a child, but it was grueling!! I was only diagnosed late in life. Drugs absolutely do help most people with ADHD! Only people with inadequate training or strong biases don't know that yet. My psychiatrist--who has ADHD himself-- agrees. A stimulant and/or a mood stabilizer make working and interacting with people soooo much easier. There is no reason for doctors to deny you those benefits except pigheadedness. In the US, we get tested by neuropsychologists and carefully evaluate drug therapies individually with psychiatrists. You should read some books on the subjects of ADHD and autism--they often go together (are comorbid). Read the literature in English, if you can. It seems like you can. Not sure what your primary language is.
If by chance you can at least get proper psychotherapy (and there are other new therapies like EMDR that are not drugs) and get relief from whatever is making your relationships and adjustment difficult, then you can work on where you want to live and how to get settled there. Or if moving back to NL will get you better mental health care (I've heard good things about mental health research in NL), then it might be a reason just to go now.
HerroWarudo@reddit
Yourself, by your 40 years of life experience, especially regarding your own feelings and preferences. Its not dissimilar to advices like "you should be happy playing basketball" because everyone is different.
Advices for precautions and personal anecdotes, yes. The best anyone could do for the rest is informed guess. Definitely not because comeback here because I said so! by your parents.
Little_Inspector9726@reddit
I myself feel like an outsider having lived abroad for 5 years in Taiwan, and returning here to Canada.
I believe I exist in both places at once. Not in some magical sense, but living in different places and cultures permanently changes your perspective.
The fixes you seek are likely small in nature, and it may be that you need to tweak your life ever so slightly every few weeks to improve your life by 1-5% or so at a time.
Stay physically active. Perhaps consider if your diet includes things you may be allergic or sensitive to. Turns out, I’m allergic to gluten and have IBS, which leads to anxiety, depression, brain fog, low energy, and brain fog.
I stack money in the stock market. Money is freedom from the drudgery of work…eventually. Until then, I take a stoic view of everything: life is short.
NorseFromNorth@reddit
I think you need to put on your big boy pants. Make your own decisions; don’t let your family make important life decisions for you.
Also, calling Norway a “tiny country” as insane. Small population, but the country is 8th biggest in Europe.
TikiBikini1984@reddit
While moving back may be a good idea, I think it is also equally as important to maybe talk to a therapist to deal with what you went through during covid and accepting some ownership for your own decisions. There is some blame you are seeming to hold against your family for your own actions and if you don't resolve this and learn to move forward in a healthy way, any life event that doesn't go as planned may get you into that unhealthy state of mind again and being in NL isn't going to magically make that go away as it didn't before!
amircruz@reddit
Very wise and smart advice OP.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
My therapist knows all this and gave no advice other than "They were unfair but they love you".
TikiBikini1984@reddit
Your therapist has not tried to help you accept that you have made your own choices and while your family did meddle a bit in discussion, it was ultimately you who made all the decisions along the way to get to where you are? Sorry to be so blunt but while I completely sympathize with you as we all make decisions we wish we could go back on in hindsight, if you blame others for your own moves and strategies throughout your life you will fall into the same pattern again. My therapist helped me with this and it was huge.
If you are not seeing this, or you only went to a couple sessions, I suggest you attempt to step back and understand what exactly your therapist was saying when they said that your family was unfair but they love you, and what thought processes they are trying to assist you with. I worry from what you have written that you are getting yourself into situations by simply following family opinions and not taking full responsibility for doing proper research on your options, which may stem from you falling back on the blame game.
plus_tax_718@reddit
Yeah they're not supposed to give you advice.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
Then what are they supposed to do then?
plus_tax_718@reddit
Look below
Zubi_Zu@reddit
That’s how it’s supposed to be. No therapist should tell you it’s a good idea to move or not like you mentioned they did. They are there to help you navigate your own feelings/actions.
GabyRivx@reddit
I’m sorry, but you need to stop blaming your family, who are only trying to help, for the consequences of your own adult choices. It was your responsibility to research the work and investment conditions in the country you’re planning to move to. That responsibility falls on you, not your family. Tech is your field, not theirs. Grow up!
Thriver93@reddit
Possibly it is a thought to go 'no contact' with your family for 4 weeks and do everything that you do on your own without their input. Not saying try not talking to anyone but just your family who seems to be still running your life. I wonder how you would feel being out of contact with them and what thoughts, on where to live and what to do, might be different than the things you are doing today.
Hope that helps generate ideas.
ALostStranger@reddit
Come up with a startup
PracticalMention8134@reddit
In time, I learned that noone has been directly involved in your daily life should feel confident to give you advice. Because this is the life you are going to live. You can look into the practices to find your inner voice and tell me how to find it please :)
Sjokogull1@reddit
You should go back to NL or find another country. Norway was not good for you
peanutbutterloverx@reddit
I agree with this. Don’t stay somewhere that makes you unhappy.
johanngunn@reddit
Norway is not tiny, it is 9x bigger than Holland. Growth in EU area was 1% in 2024 vs 2.1% in Norway. Average salary in Norway is 58.780 eur pr year vs 46.500 eur in Holland, i.e. 26% higher salary in Norway. EU is centralized beaurocratic alliance that tries to punish those who want out (UK). It is designed to sink (Aka The USSR model)
peanutbutterloverx@reddit
Mine might be unpopular opinions, but I really relate to what you’re going through. I’m 46 and made a recent career change (which I hate) — basically my “visa” to different countries. I’m back in Canada after living abroad for a decade and absolutely hate it. My friends have grown tired of my indecision and constant second-guessing. Like you, I’ve often relied too much on my family’s advice, which makes it hard to feel like I have real agency. I also go into doom spirals, and I’ve seen many therapists over the years. (By the way, a good therapist shouldn’t give direct advice — they should help you find your own answers.)
A few things that have helped me lately:
Try ChatGPT (the paid version, just for a month). I know it sounds odd, but it’s honestly helped me clarify my own thinking more than most therapists have. If you allow it to remember your chats, it becomes a surprisingly objective, 24/7 sounding board that helps you explore ideas and decisions without judgment. It’s great for brainstorming and reframing problems.
Try “The Five Whys” technique. It’s a simple problem-solving method developed at Toyota: keep asking “Why?” until you uncover the root cause of a problem. Example: • The machine stopped → Why? Fuse blew. • Why? It was overloaded. • Why? Bearings weren’t lubricated… …until you find the real issue (in this case, a clogged pump). The same idea works for emotional or life problems — you just keep asking why until you get to the truth behind your discomfort.
Join niche Facebook groups. Look for expats in NL, expats in Norway, Norwegians in NL, Dutch expats in Norway, etc. Ask questions and compare notes. Cross-referencing different perspectives can show you patterns you might not see from one side alone. Reddit can be judgmental, but those FB groups are usually more personal and specific.
Whatever you choose, remember: you have agency. None of your choices are forever. Every move teaches you something, and you can always adjust. The hardest part is being in limbo, but once you decide, even if it’s imperfect, the next steps usually feel lighter.
I hope some of this helps. You’re not alone in feeling stuck between worlds. Many of us are just trying to find a place that feels like home again. Hang in there. This problem isn’t going to last forever.
peanutbutterloverx@reddit
Another thing a good friend of mine told me recently, which I think he got from a Pepsi commercial is “if it’s not fun anymore, stop doing it.” I think that’s good advice. You only get one life.
Objective-Win7524@reddit
Hello, it is not clear to me where are you originally from??
Dusty_Airfilter@reddit
Netherlands is an underrated country by its own citizens. With the way it’s going, they realize this in 5-10 years!!!
Ambitious_Yoghurt_70@reddit
I don't think it was a wrong decision if you needed that back then. And if you want to move back to the Netherlands after you experienced something you didn't see yourself with a permanent future, just do it :)
plus_tax_718@reddit
It sounds like you need some friends and a hobby. Fix your mental health. Then start thinking about dating. You are going to take you wherever you go. If you don't have friends, ask yourself what are you doing thats preventing that? Are you negative all the time? Fix that. Are you mean? Stop that. Boring? Get a hobby. Having a community is the number one factor of better mental health
antiputer@reddit
A lot of times the true reality is harsh, but there’s no point in surgercoating it: you royally fucked up.
anotherboringdj@reddit
No.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
Care to elaborate why?
Liberatedexpat@reddit
The core issue here is that you left the Netherlands when you were already in a vulnerable mental place, and your family's solution—moving you closer to your sibling in Norway—was about their safety needs for you, and did not consider your professional fulfillment.
Now, you are stuck in a situation that violates almost everything you value: your savings have tanked, the tech job market is tiny etc. The regret you feel is a reasonable response to being trapped in a life that is actively working against your long-term goals and values.
You should explore moving back to the Netherlands, but not as a desperate escape. This needs to be a retreat on your own terms. Your current job in Norway, needs to be reframed as a means to an end - solely to funding your exit. While you save money, immediately begin applying for jobs back in the NL. Your years of experience as an expat in the Dutch market are of important value, and you can leverage that.
Since you are worried about the housing crisis and having to move out of pocket, securing a job offer before you physically relocate is a crucial step; a signed contract will significantly help with the difficulty of securing a rental place.
The goal isn't just to return to a place you miss, but to return to a larger EU market where your career can grow and your personal values are not under attack. Your regret is a powerful signal - use it to drive you towards a self-directed move back towards stability.
Mark, MSW
Global Identity & Strategy Consultant
Liberated Expat
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
If I were you I would book a flight to Malaga or Alicante and spend 1-2 weeks to recharge and realign a little bit.
EndOfTheLine00@reddit (OP)
I don't like beaches or partying.
Minimum_Rice555@reddit
Sure, although at this time of the year, it's not beach weather anymore, it's more about long walks and appreciating the 22C and sunshine. Check out Nerja or Altea, these are places for intellectual recharge, not partying. Please don't confuse all of spain for partying like Benidorm.
One word of advice, definitely don't need to "endure and power through". There is much more to existance than this, if I were you, I would travel and figure out a place that works for me, either NL or somewhere else - there are sooo many nice places to live.
Intelligent_Rock5978@reddit
I can see why working in oil industry goes against your ethics, but it's still tech after all. I'm in oil industry and the app I'm working on already helped to save a tremendous amount of fuel by digitalizing work that previously required taking a chopper offshore and doing manual work, they can also detect and fix oil leaks and other issues much sooner. So in my book it still helps the environment a little bit. It's not like oil companies would stop production without us helping them anyways...
Open_Perspective_326@reddit
I hold the perspective that Norwegian O&G and Defence are at least doing it the most responsibly. It would be much better to have electric powered rigs pumping European gas than American rigs flaring off 50% and shipping it halfway around the world as it evaporates. Also IT market is just kind of cooked everywhere right now so there’s that too.