Why do SOME (some means not all) Albanians spread so much anti-greek hate on the internet?
Posted by Eroidius@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 120 comments
It is common to find accounts on YouTube and Tiktok which seemingly have to other purpose other than to slander Greeks with no clear objective. A few examples "The Trojan war: a war between Albanians." "Greeks did not exist before 1821" "The greek language was created by the church" and of course "There are 3 million brainwashed Albanians in Greece." Where is this hate coming from? Do they do this against other balkan countries too?
mrocznyduch@reddit
I saw Albanians spreading hate not just to Greece also to us Serbs, Macedonian even Romanians. For Serbs I
I even saw in a Skopje street something written in Albanian meaning „don’t mess with the shiptars”, really guys ?
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
You make it sound as if we should not ask for any "favours" now that a big statue is in Skopje. Skanderbeg's statues are all over Europe, mate. Municipality councils never rejected to place them.
mrocznyduch@reddit
Don’t me wrong as a Serb I admire Skanderberg for defeating the Ottoman Empire and freeing Albania, what I don’t like is yapping and shit nonsense. Like when your supporters came to Belgrade, and one dumbass had this genius to piss off whole arena with the drone to have a laugh and put in danger the lives of the players themselves. Always pulling off some stupid shit like that, or when your prime minister came to Belgrade started lecturing about Kosovo then when put back in his place, he went back on his word in English speaking about Balkan solidarity. Always trying to pull some stupid shit to prove you’re tough. As for the tag, what is it for what is it trying to prove ? The point is if you’re outside of your motherland somewhere don’t be a dumbass show some respect, besides, in Macedonia Albanians have been in it for a thousand years.
Skullio1@reddit
Most times Ive seen its usually the typical ultranationalist ignorant slop you see all the time on sites like TikTok, youtube, or insta, which Is very common from all sides believe me, its just that it seems like people are getting more exposed to hateful comments towards their own ethnicity, be it from the content they consume relating to their country or ethincity, or just hateful comments being propped up by algorithms. Regarding the hate you saw towards Romanians tho, Ive only seen it on reddit funnily enough and its almost always been as a reaction to a hateful comment from a Romanian.
Regarding the photo tho, the verb "luani" is translated as "play" (2nd person plural), in this context its used as "play around" or "play games", as in dont play around with Albanians or dont mistreat Albanians. Its a political statement but not a nationalistic one.
I'm curious tho who gave you the translation of "don't mess with the "shiptars"'" especially with the last word, considering the content of your comment this is really ironic.
immortalx74@reddit
I've been working with Albanians since the first wave which came to Greece for work in the 90's. I've met and became friends/partners with a lot and I mean a LOT of Albanians who are now in their 50s+.
With some rare exceptions those people never claimed anything like that. Their kids though are almost a different breed when it comes to nationalism (which isn't in itself a bad thing depending on context). I've heard some very bitter things even from a friend's kid, whose family I helped make their first steps here (provided clothing, helped get him to work, and bought both of his kids their first school gear).
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
Funny thing ia history between two countries does not start and end during 90'. Yes it was difficult for most of the albanians but they went everywhere trying to get a better life because of communism. Do you want me to argue that other countries that albanians went were felt more welcomed than in Greece, and you know why? Because of that histroy prior of that. That nationalism of albanians that you mentioned is never compared with what new greek state created after it was formed after 1820'. If someone ask a random greek why did arvanites spoke albanian they just cannot understand it because of the propaganda that Greece created just to declare them as greeks
immortalx74@reddit
More than 80% emigrated to Greece and Italy. The rest were spread to several other countries which isn't even considered mass emigration. Much easier to not cause upset to local population and blend in.
There was a well known incident involving a ship that arrived to Italy. Check it out to see how you were "welcomed" there.
My point is that wherever on earth there's uncontrolled mass immigration there's ALWAYS going to be upset.
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
Im not even talking how the goverments of each country handle it because it is very complex. As if you know how borders greek police handle it better. Anyway, i was talking in every day lifr with society. Without any doubt they were felt more welcomed in Italy. It is not even a discussion
immortalx74@reddit
Yeah yeah, especially the Vlora ship was welcomed with joy😅
I tried to have a reasonable conversation but some of you guys don't even check the facts 🤷♂️
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
Did you read anything what i said?! 😅 it is a life for thousends after they decided to live in Italy, which is never compared with albanians in Greece. The society and the life in ita country, not just incidents...
immortalx74@reddit
"Not just incidents". The ship was boarded with 20.000 people dude, you can call it an "incident" if you wish but it was a massive humanitarian crisis.
Things like these can happen anywhere there's an influx of illegal immigrants. And it happened also to Greece of course. I'd never deny that. But there were also stories like mine and many-many others, of people that provided help, food and shelter.
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
I repeeated it many times. I didnt said that many greeks provided help. In general italians people were more helpful to help albanians and to socialize faster within the country. I am talking in general. I dont know why you are arguing about that. It is a fact undeniable. I am not saying that greek people are less educated than italians. We are talking for certain reasons they had issues with albanians prior than 90' and thats a fact
immortalx74@reddit
I've met many Albanians who came here but had brothers and sisters in Italy (a very common thing, as I'm sure you already know). From their accounts there wasn't any difference in how they were treated.
Our history prior to the 90's had little to do with it.
The "fear" in both Italy and Greece was that an influx of people were trying to enter those countries illegally.
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
Come on man. I know more than you albanians living in both countries. No doubt about that. I can measure it better because i know more albanians living in both countries from my life experience and families and friends
East-Raccoon135@reddit
I have no idea what you're talking about.
This is interesting because the Albanian cousins I have in Greece were ashamed to tell their friends they were Albanian for most of their lives due to prejudice and racism, they wouldn't even speak Albanian at home. And they are very much assimilated at this point, they barely even go back to Albania even though Greece shares a border.
Now people I've spoken to have said it's gotten much better (the abhorrent racism towards Albanians) but when my mom first went in the 90s, there were literally signs that said No Albanians in the newspapers for job listings and rampant discrimination.
I just met a Belgian/Greek woman who told me her grandma was horribly racist towards Albanians. Curious why you are leaving this part of the history out.
immortalx74@reddit
Have you seen a country where there was mass immigration and went without issues? We ourselves have been immigrating to Germany, USA, Australia, and so on, for centuries and faced the EXACT same "racism".
Now racism is a very vague term because I assure you that if all of a sudden people from another country flooded Albania, not all of you would be happy about it.
There's a natural reflex in people all over the world to be biased against anything foreign, and it takes time to establish good relations. As I explained, overtime we got along nicely.
What makes the big difference though, is that immigrating to somewhere that there's a history of disputes between the two parties, makes things much harder, I hope you agree with that.
East-Raccoon135@reddit
I took issue with your point that their kids are a different breed of nationalists. I haven’t seen that in my own family — quite the opposite.
immortalx74@reddit
Believe what you will, I saw it with my own two eyes and made a clear distinction between the older and younger generation. Meanwhile I live here and you don't, so please allow me to have a more informed opinion. Also, my wife is a teacher and has witnessed the same change in behavior between the older and newer gen.
East-Raccoon135@reddit
Could that be because they’ve been told they are inferior and have experienced discrimination, which has made them more proud of where they come from?
immortalx74@reddit
You mean the same discrimination that anyone (my son included) faces when they seek work in a foreign country? See a previous post of mine so I don't have to repeat myself. I see nothing wrong for anyone to be proud of their country as long as they understand why most people in the host country are wary, and learn to distinguish them from the extremists.
Again, I believe the same for my own son who's facing the same things in a northern country. People there keep a distance to foreigners and make vile comments. Thankfully he understands that's how the world works and is grateful that he has a far better life there than here.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Because youngsters have not lived here. It is the human nature to become more nationalist when living away.
immortalx74@reddit
Indeed! If nationalist = proud for your country then great. If it means to downplay other nations to feel more important then it's complex.
My son also lives abroad. First thing I told him before he took the plane, was to respect that country's culture, traditions, history, try to blend with the people and, most importantly, DON'T be irritating.
Because it's also in the human nature to be protective when others live in your country to have a better life, and at the same time talk $hit about it!
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Frankly, the way i see it, they probably feel like they are stuck there and don't owe much to the hosting country. They are not like their parents who shoveled shit to provide them a better life. If they have half of balls of their parents , they would try it by their own and go in Germany or UK and seek there a much better life. Greece and Italy are no longer like it used to be. But probably they feel comfy because they already have the basics, if not luxury, and find amusement in pampering themselves with such talks.
Afaic, i thought Albanians there were integrated. Those whom i know even converted to christian and changed their names and i never bother to have such convos.
I always asumed such is the case with everyone.
immortalx74@reddit
I assure you that the majority of 1st gen Albanians here are integrated, and are grateful because even if Greece is less than ideal (even for us Greeks), they had a chance for a life much-much better than what they'd have in Albania (at the time). All I'm saying is that there's a trend from the youngsters mostly ,to have something beyond a nationalistic pride, which leans on unjustified hatred towards Greece. That is, the very first place to provide a chance to people who were running away from a fallen country.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Well, you can not generalize based on some of whom you know. I have noticed that really-really religious Albanians do not see our state as representing them.
I think it is the fault of education system.
immortalx74@reddit
My sample of people I know is very big because of my age and profession, I don't generalize, I speak sincerely from what I see myself.
Unique-Back-495@reddit
You seem to have held excel spreadsheets on Albanians, have you kept track on Greeks behavior as well?
immortalx74@reddit
Do I need excel spreadsheets when I've met and befriended Albanians for 30+ years? Have you missed the part where I say that we get along nicely with 1st gen Albanians and I personally have long-term friendship with many? I only said about the younger generation.
Ghost_Protocol147@reddit
I believe you when you say they have integrated particularly because Greece has shown time and time again how “friendly” it is towards declared minorities.
Citaku357@reddit
God i hate who live abroad and act like this, it's pure cringe
Lgkp@reddit
I’ve never in my life heard even the most extreme Albanian nationalist say that Greeks didn’t exist before 1821 or that the Greek language was created by any church
Arvanites are Albanians in denial btw
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
I've heard Albanian and North Macedonian nationalists say that Greeks today have no relation to ancient Greeks and all this is made up propaganda by the Greeks with the help of Western powers. And that we really have no history of our own. Lol
Old-Cardiologist2853@reddit
Fare turku jeni o gerq
Ghost_Protocol147@reddit
To be honest i believe the gene pool of the ancient greeks is too diluted nowadays to show the relation with modern greeks.
Ancient greeks were at the forefront of democracy, philosophy, exact sciences like mathematics etc. modern greeks are a far cry from those days.
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
That's a common misconception. Ideas. Come and go, but there are other things that stay. Even in ancient Greece there was tyranny. There was dictatorship and there was monarchy. Democracy was a very small part of it. They sacrificed humans for gods and philosophy and enlightenment was also a small part of it.
Modern Greeks besides genetics also share the same language. Nobody else speaks or writes that same language that has very small changes since the ancient years. Modern Greeks also share many customs and traditions of the ancient Greek shared.
Ghost_Protocol147@reddit
I can go into comparisons with you but we would get nowhere since you have your belief system.
We have a common language with illyrians but you see the greeks all the time acting like they are the only old people in the balkans.
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
I do believe the albanians are very close to illyrians. As much as the Greeks are close to the ancient Greek.
I don't know where you saw me say that the Greeks are the only old people in the Balkans. Pointed out for me. Please if you can
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
Don’t get too pressed because that’s what POS say about albanians too
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
It's true what you say I've heard Greeks say the same. It's stupid
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
So, how does that affect your life 🤣
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
It doesn't. Just funny
CypriotGreek@reddit
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Yeah, fall of Rome really messed up my future.
Stverghame@reddit
Weird that you never saw it. I did see many of those. Generally used in context of Arvanites, where it is mentioned that Greek nation is invented to assimilate Albanians into Greeks and that real Greeks don't actually exist.
PlayfulMountain6@reddit
They assimilated them into greek. That is a fact
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Doesn't sound that nationalistic if you think over, deep down we believe we are related 😂
Stverghame@reddit
See? You don't even see it as nationalistic - that's the reason you believe you don't see nationalistic stuff.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Proper nationalism sees everyone else as subhuman. Let us be realistic. Albanians and Greeks probably intermarry the most.
Stverghame@reddit
That's not "proper nationalism". That's chauvinism.
As for intermarriage, that wasn't even the topic I touched, you're going into a different direction here.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Ok, if our nationalists believe that half of Greeks have Albanian origins from Arvanites, how would we justify hate toward these "half-albanians".
And don't play fool here. Go watch a Tesla documentray on youtube.
Stverghame@reddit
Answer this comment once you get a coherent thought, we might continue the conversation. I am certain you haven't understood the point, and that's fine, maybe you've just woken up and still need time to get ahold of yourself.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Quarrels about Arvanites are beginner level. Scrolling down will show even worse levels 🤣 that is what i had in mind.
Stverghame@reddit
Well, that's true. I just presented you the soft one coming from your end as it is the most common one. Many Albanians go further than that, though it is not possible to remember every single thing I come across online. I do remember a funny one though, when a guy claimed that ancient Greeks are Albanians and started translating Greek Gods' names to prove that they are Albanian in origin (the translations were senseless, of course). The one that I remember is for Aphrodite, when he claims AFËR DITËS is her name meaning "near day".
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
See? You side with Greeks already 😡
Stverghame@reddit
Well, I am on their side regarding this, I've never hidden that. Supporting Albanian theories is not something that would make sense for me, both for the reason that they make no sense as well as that many of them include bashing and degrading of my nation.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Sorry to hear that. Like our Baba Mondi said: it will get better 😂
Stverghame@reddit
Mhmm
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
You need to meet Baba Mondi
Stverghame@reddit
I've heard of him, but I don't know his opus
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Me neither mate
Tomorr3@reddit
Why don't you ask them yourselves? Why would we know it? Also how do you know for sure those are Albanians?
Additional-Peace-809@reddit
So over this last weekend I was looking for a vacation in Albania to go to with my girlfriend, I got a lot of tiktok about Albania. I would say 80% of the time I got a tiktok about Albania in any way at all I would see these comments on top
If I saw a video about Gjirokastër, the top comment would be "Argyrokastro is our city 🇬🇷" and videos about Albania are full of hateful comments from Greeks and Albanians. Now I think this is because tiktoks algoritm has been ultimately optimized to put comments that stir up engagement to the top, anytime anyone places anything hateful, wether it be like you mention Albanians, wether it be Greeks, wether it be hate agains't LGBT people, these post spark massive back and forth with paragraphs upon paragraphs of writing and people read them because they're interested in the drama. These algorithms want that. So it has become a hate filled place I've noticed.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
Wait but OP said only albanians talk bad how is that possible? Oh,that’s because they see albanians in greece as second class citizens,that’s right …
Eroidius@reddit (OP)
I never said only Albanians talk bad, obviously Greeks talk bad and spread myths too but I have never seen any of the myths spread about albanians in greece being a majority opinion.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
But you didn’t answer:are albanians second class citizens in greece?
Eroidius@reddit (OP)
Greece has rule of blood, most Albanians in Greece can't become citizens but while permantly living in the country they have the same rights to healthcare and education as Greek citizens.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
But greeks in albania should do whatever the fuck they want ,have special rights etc…am i right?
TheDethroneOfBtc@reddit
Three or four more years and Albanians will never, ever give a rat’s ass about Greece or your sick, deranged culture: gays, fucking each other’s wives, fostering adultery at a young age, lazy fat bums.
Wake up every day and thank Turkey for threatening to invade you, which led to EU membership, otherwise you would have been the shithole of the continent.
Thank God EU membership for us is on the horizon: soon we will be liberated and leave you sick fucks in the dust. But when it comes to being gay, you guys are world champions and will remain so.
DK_Aconpli_Town_54@reddit
Going through your profile - you have some weird obsession with Albanians, my friend. Maybe leave your basement and stop baiting people into engaging with you, and then judging people based on your interactions on Tiktok and YouTue. You know, sunlight and some light physical exercise does wonders.
Botime Shkollore – dukagjinibotime.com
This is what Albanians learn in school about Greeks, it isn't even close to the nutcases of what you're claiming.
Citaku357@reddit
First the Serbs now the Greeks? Lol where do these people even get their historical education from?
JonGhost1234@reddit
Dont even get started with Tiktok. If there is even a glimpse of South Albanian music or fustanella, the comment section will be flooded with spam of copypasta regarding Caucasian Albania, North Epirus or Napolon Zerva.
And these are not simply done by bots like in twitter, if you check their profile section, you will find average people of different age, male or female spewing the most vile shit possible.
CypriotGreek@reddit
A lot of Albanians here justify their nationalism by saying it’s “understandable” because they agree with it. Go on any post about Epirus, Macedonia, or Greek independence, and you’ll see the same claims: “Greeks didn’t exist before 1821,” “the revolution was an Albanian civil war,” or that “Albanians liberated Greece.” I’ve even seen them claim Alexander the Great and ancient Greek cities.
This attitude mostly comes from the fact that most Albanians live abroad. They develop a superiority complex out of insecurity and refuse to assimilate. Many Albanian kids in Greece have parents who are thankful for the opportunities they found here, but the kids grow up ungrateful and openly hostile toward Greece, even voting for things they say will harm it. I’ve heard this myself with Albanian classmates.
And then they wonder why people don't like them in Greece. What’s also very telling is that instead of refuting any of this, the only argument Albanians here ever make is “Greeks do it too.”
I opened Facebook to find an example, and this was literally the first thing I saw:
Unique-Back-495@reddit
Respect and all those things are a two way street. There's a lot of Albanians who respect or are neutral vs Greece.
There's hardly any Greek who has positive things to say about Albania or Albanians, and generally they don't keep their opinions to themselves either.
And as for history goes both ways as well
CypriotGreek@reddit
You’re completely wrong; that statement is simply false. If you actually spent time in Greece and bothered to ask around, you’d see that most Greeks usually don’t think about Albanians at all, and those who do usually don’t have much to say either way. You also need to understand that Greek-Albanian relations have always been complicated. Historically, we’ve been on opposing sides, and when the massive wave of Albanian immigration came in the 1990s, a lot of the newcomers were involved in serious, high-profile crimes that shaped public perception at the time. So it’s not hard to see why some Greeks were hesitant or suspicious back then.
Today, though, most Greeks either don’t care or, at most, criticize the anti-Greek narratives constantly pushed online, especially on Facebook, where we see them every day. What bothers people isn’t Albania or Albanians as a whole, but the hypocrisy of those who live and work in Greece while constantly badmouthing the country and its history with extreme nationalist rhetoric.
Unique-Back-495@reddit
I don't need to go there, I have seen enough. Literally go to any video or material where Albania and Albanians mentioned and you'll find quite a few schizo Greeks talking shit. Even Serbs aren't as hostile or as obsessed. Like legit it could be a video of an ice cream in Durres.
Generally the albanian shit talking is mostly reserved related to Greek history material.
Just as many albanians suffered horrific crimes and never got justice due to 2 tier justice system.
DK_Aconpli_Town_54@reddit
A few months ago, this guy, in a similar post about Greeks justified it by saying that Albanians do the same. Now he wants us to condone what some kids comment on the internet. Yet he insists he is a normal person. It's so bad it became hilarious.
Unique-Back-495@reddit
Meh let them keep obsessing with us, meanwhile the whole world is passing by.
They went from one of the nicest & developed countries in world to comparable to Albania in a few decades. I mean you are what you think lol
DK_Aconpli_Town_54@reddit
I fshiu komentet loqja, haha.
CypriotGreek@reddit
You’re still not proving anything, just throwing around claims with zero evidence because it makes you feel better. If you want to hate Greeks, fine, that’s your right. But don’t pretend it’s some universal truth. It’s not. You’re lying to yourself and everyone else.
I’ve personally had bad experiences with Albanians, my family’s been robbed and assaulted, but even then, I don’t go around saying all Albanians are like that. The difference is, I can separate individual behavior from national identity. You’re basing your entire argument on finding Greek nationalists under nationalist posts, yeah, no kidding. The same happens under Albanian posts, only in reverse. As for your “Albanians suffered horrific crimes” line, name one person who wasn’t compensated or treated fairly that wasn’t also part of the general dysfunction of the Greek justice system.
Nobody’s “special” here; we all get screwed by the same system. The question was about why Albanian nationalists online keep spreading anti-Greek hate, not about pretending both sides are equally guilty just to dodge the point.
Unique-Back-495@reddit
Where did I say "Greeks are bad". That majority of Greeks are xenophobic and don't like Albanians it's a truth. So is that majority of Albanians don't hate Greece/Greeks.
It's pretty simple. It's not a question of chicken and egg, majority of Greeks in comments agree too that Albanians weren't like that. So it's a response to the Greek hate.
It's one thing to schizo post under political historical materials, a whole other level under random ones.
albo_kapedani@reddit
Christ and Saint Mary above!!! Calm down!
DK_Aconpli_Town_54@reddit
Crazy comment considering that just a few months ago, it was you justifying your own people, because Albanians do it as well. Now you want from us to condone what some kids and nutcases comment. And you insist that you're a normal person 🤣? It's so bad that it became hilarious.
Ghost_Protocol147@reddit
Dude you get those types of comments and claims while we get the same but opposite being greeks saying all kinds of stupid shit for us.
Facebook and tiktok are cesspools.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
First time i hear about Arvanite uprising, tbh. Now you just provided more proof for our nationalist agenda 🤣
CypriotGreek@reddit
This is probably how 99% of Albanian Internet ultranationalists get their news and information.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Honestly, at first glance i thought Marco was greek. In our narrative Albanian muslims never fought for the Ottomans 😂
jonbristow@reddit
Greece still has a law where they have declared war to Albania and refuse to abolish it
Bilbolbu@reddit
No, just the ones they're neighbouring.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
And that’s to counter the neighbours (aside from Kosova obviously)who do the same thing and all hate albanians ,but let’s not talk about that
DK_Aconpli_Town_54@reddit
The guy you're replying to is a nationalist weirdo on his 5th account in here. I mean there's a reason not a single ethnicity wanted to share a country with his people - not even their own brothers in Montenegro.
Ghost_Protocol147@reddit
Because SOME greeks do the same as well. Duh it’s the internet especially tiktok is a cesspool.
kerobob@reddit
Albanian nationalists are a different breed, it's something special. Per capita they are probably among the top three in the world, actually I can't think of someone else who is above them. But arguments like the one you mentioned “your country or language didnt exist until the 19th century” I have seen plenty of times from Serbs toward Croats, so i guess nationalists do that everywhere, but some do it more.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Because we don't have religion. So we have to make up earthly tales.
Yavannia@reddit
You have no religion meanwhile in a recent school trip a bunch of albanians boys refused to enter a church because of religious reasons. You say one thing I notice the opposite.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
That is the fault of your education system. But, it is a global occuring. Education is not like used to be.
Eroidius@reddit (OP)
she is probably reffering to greek schooltrips to churches, in this case i dont see how our education system is at fault.
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
When we have had schooltrips, one was to go to Ardenica monastery. That was the most boring one, tbh. We prefered city centers.
They are just kids, it is not big deal. I bet they are not even muslim.
Yavannia@reddit
I literally told you they refused to enter due to religious reasons but they aren't muslim lol. How hard will you try to twist the narrative?
Ghost_Protocol147@reddit
So why should they enter the church? I have orthodox ancestry and i find churches pointless.
What is this argument they refuse to enter a church?
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
Afaic, you did not say they were muslims and neither you did about being in city center, but you assumed i had been there with you🤣 didn't it occur to you they could be catholic Albanians?
Yavannia@reddit
Yes you are right how didn't I think that. Of course Catholics are famous for refusing to enter christian churches. Keep having your head under the sand.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
Well ,my albanian friends don’t refuse to enter a church , what’s your point?
Its that fucking greek media that poisons greeks, it’s unfortunate
Yavannia@reddit
It's not greek media propaganda it happened to my mother's school.
lolzimcoolwow@reddit
Backwards just because they have free will?Sure it’s weird i guess they didn’t want to enter but you’re not forced to,it’s like a christian not wanting to enter in a mosque they’re not forced to…
What’s next ,choosing their names and surnames? Oh ,wait…
Yavannia@reddit
Of course it wasn't forced, but before the school trip they didn't inform anyone and when they arrived they just refused to enter. It was just unexpected and disappointing to the teachers.
OODNflow@reddit
If they are born and or raised in Greece we do not claim them they are influenced 99% by the greek environment yet you want to put the blame on Albanians.
In Albania the “muslims” go to church and celebrate Christmass and Easter. If there are segments influenced by Iran, Syria or Turkey obviously no but then these are maybe 2% in total and its a problem for the state that Governs them, be it Albanian or Greek state
itlo@reddit
I can ask the same. I see on Twitter the most ridiculous and hateful posts from Serbs and Greeks toward Albanians. Like, bro wtf, dehumanizing and denying even the existence as a people.
But I don't see the same from our side. For sure there is some trolling and showing hate, but not at the level I see from your side. So it is strange to me that you're even asking. Seems to like some form of gaslighting
babybabayyy@reddit
That last sentence is ironic considering your whole post is one massive gaslight.
itlo@reddit
Sure, bro
L0raz-Thou-R0c0n0@reddit
The feelings mutual my friend.
There are a lot of greeks and serbians who equally make as absurd of claims and toxic amount of nationalism. I’ve argued with a guy who has been claiming skanderbeg to be a greek for over 11 years and he didn’t argue in good faith but only to further make his delusions grandiose.
And I can be an odd one out but I hang around serbian and greek circles as well. I’ve been equally as fascinated by history of serbia and greece as much as I have been with history of albania and their struggles, and I can say that there’s truth that there are bad actors that create absurd claims but I will point out that, bias aside, greeks have a much bigger online presence and thus are usually the most frequent perpetrators of heated arguments.
Erenik19@reddit
Fuck nationalists. You should love your country there's nothing wrong with that. Having different opinions ? Also nothing wrong with that. Being Human and working towards the better good that's what all should aim for, Especially the yunger generation. I've met and worked with many Greek people, I've visited Greece many times and I have nothing but love and respect. As I said, Having different opinions in some things isnt a bad thing, It's fking normal.
OODNflow@reddit
Not sure what this post is trying to find out. This is something that happens in all Balkan countries. You can swap Greece with Albania in those negative examples and find thousands of greeks that say the same for Albania.
I would put the real issue in a fake alternative history that was created in Greece post ww2. The other lie is that Albanians collaborated with the nazis against Greece and collaborated with the turks as well against Greece. Afaik these are sentiments that have been pushed by the state post ww2 for various political reasons, real complex issues not conspiracies. This in itself makes many people in Greece to have by default a more hostile attitude and obviously the gutters of Albanian society fights back with this shit.
Just keep in mind these exact words are said by many Greeks especially on TV or social media.
I would say tho that these days in p2p interaction these hostilities are almost non existent.
Imo it comes from the fact that for many Greeks it would be a scandal to find out that for thousands of years the 2 nations have had ample cultural exchange.
The Albanian delulu claims do not exist in a vacuum but as a counteracting force of the same in Greece.
latalatala@reddit
Why do some insert ethnicity spread so much anti-insert other ethnicity hate on the internet?
I’ll tell you why, because they are uneducated propagandized idiots that have never read a history book and just work on vibes. I’m not trying to justify my people but I have the same EXACT experience as you with Greeks and Serbs on the internet. These people start from a crazy claim and do everything to justify it ignoring basic facts.
InfinitePractice9014@reddit
Ohhhhh have a look on tiktok or facebook, especially were southern Albanian folk dances and music are displayed. People trying do appropriate Osman Taka dances and calling it osmadaki or sutch shit. Point the finger to yourself first, the socials are full of your entitled idiots af if only you have culture and history here
Ok_Stretch_405@reddit
I don't have tik tok, but in fb is the other way around. In you tube is probably a tie 🤣
tejanaqkilica@reddit
To counter Greeks who do the same thing. Balancing act
Jack55555@reddit
The are South-Serbians (North “Macedonians”) in disguise.
Diligent_Breath_643@reddit
Very simple the answer is like this,,,, Balkan war,,who ended with more people or land who speak their language in other countries, did Greece end up with more people and land that spoke Albanian in Greece or or people that spoke greek in Albania, do you want me to start with Serbia now or I shall leave it? Because deep down they know it, but acceptance is the problem here and not how much nationalists hate each other, go and ask the Greeks how many Albanians helped them to gain their independence,what would they say!,,I took the Balkan war because it's still fresh on people's memories,,,like what my grandfather used to tell me,,, and not what historian??? Write like the historians of Serbia that say Kosovo is Serbia because we ,,,Serbs,,, marched to a different land? Someone else ,,ottomans,,, marched to the same different land, they both lost..but but now that land is sacred and belongs to us,, whoo can make sense of this mess
Winter-Speech978@reddit
What i have seen is the opposite actually
East-Raccoon135@reddit
Same. Especiallz on FB - any post about Albanian history overrun with racist commwnrs by Greeks
And anything about kosovo is the same with Serbians