For those who don't know all the new laws in Europe.
Posted by LargeNerdKid@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 307 comments

This chart shows all the difference categories of ebikes and emopeds and everything that's required or not required for each variation of bike.
Sir-Benalot@reddit
25km/h is fuckin slow and making it a speed limit for e-bikes is just to kneecap these bikes so everyone gets in a car.
For reference: I’m a cyclist who commutes to work on a normal road bike, does bunch rides, and MTB
Krieg@reddit
You can go 45 km/h, you just need plate/insurance and a license.
Ser-Lukas-of-dassel@reddit
The limits make sense, since going 30kmh on tiny bikepaths inside of cities is way to dangerous especially for other cyclists on the bike path. Even at 25kmh E-bikes are the fasted mode of transport in cities since you can either make it over the intersection in the same lightcycle as the car next to you waiting at the same traffic light or use shortcuts for pedestrians and bikes… Creating shortcuts (by connecting dead end streets with paths) is really the way to make cycling attractive and achieve a hundred other positive effects.
Hungry_Orange666@reddit
So better solution will to set 25km/h limit on bike paths and have faster cyclist and ebike riders use roads.
On my commute from suburbs, 25km/h limited ebike takes 50% more time then 45km/h ebike or car.
Maybe 25km/h ebikes works for people who live in city centres, but only milioners can afford rents there.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Well said
Thin-Engineer-9191@reddit
45 is still way too slow
ZenoxDemin@reddit
Car lobby wins again!
Ceder_Dog@reddit
I'm confused, what about this make's that so?
ZenoxDemin@reddit
The no throttle and stupidly slow speeds.
If you want people to stop driving everywhere all the time, ebikes must be fast enough, efficient and convenient enough.
Ser-Lukas-of-dassel@reddit
The limits make sense, since going 30kmh on tiny bikepaths inside of cities is way to dangerous. The 25kmh is meant to be in line with the speed of a fast non-assisted cyclist. Even at 25kmh E-bikes are the fasted mode of transport in cities since you can either make it over the intersection in the same lightcycle as the car next to you waiting at the same traffic light or use shortcuts for pedestrians and bikes…
AristotelesQC@reddit
25 km/h on a road bike is not fast at all...
Ser-Lukas-of-dassel@reddit
On the road for an experienced cyclist, however for old people who had never ridden a bike in 10 years the 25kph are fat enough that they already struggle with the speed and weight of the bike. And if you are the kind of person that thinks 25kph is not fast you can easily reach 40-50kph on short sprints where that relative speed is not fast.
AristotelesQC@reddit
You said "fast non assisted cyclists", not "old people riding a bike for the first time in 10 years". And for fast analog cyclists, 25 kph is a leisury pace and certainly not fast.
Ceder_Dog@reddit
Ah, I understand where you're coming from. However, to me this point of view is a bit short sighted.
Higher speeds to make it more convenient for me and me alone to get somewhere fast has knock-on effects to building a community of bike riding. For example, large speed differences between analog cyclists and e-bikes makes it less comfortable for the slower riding community. It can deter folks from riding, cause pushback from the pedestrians and actually hinder bicycle adoption. It's a big problem in many USA cities right now due to these high speed ebikes.
AppropriateOne9584@reddit
15 mph. What happens when I road bicycle past them? Universe will probably implode.
Ser-Lukas-of-dassel@reddit
Overtaking boomers on their oversized e-bikes is a rite of passage for a true cyclist.😎
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Lol it's a real problem 😆
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah an in Ireland the taxi union as well
DDRitter@reddit
Going 45 Km/h on a scooter with 25 Km/h factory brakes is the best way to end in the ground.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
My duotts n26 has dual piston hydraulic breaks on 180mm rotors and it goes 55kph if you want to and it has no problem stopping.
DDRitter@reddit
Factory brakes? Then they are not rated for 25 km/h, but for 55 km/h.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Well there's something wrong somewhere because mine are great at stopping me.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
My bike will do 55kph if you want to andits breaks are fantastic.
nahkamanaatti@reddit
These are country specific, even in EU. In my country escooters are allowed to go 25km/h for example.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Your correct i thought it was one set of rules but there is slight variation.
Ireland's rules align with EU regulations for vehicles that exceed standard e-bike limits. A standard e-bike in both the EU and Ireland is a pedal-assist bicycle with a motor that cuts out at 25 km/h and is under 250W. However, any bike that can travel faster or is throttle-powered is classified differently
Ok_Transportation186@reddit
" a motor that cuts out at 25 km/h and is under 250W."
So you barely make it up a driveway, nice
Brillegeit@reddit
The European power limit is 250W nominal power measured using the IEC 60034-1 standard. This is comparable to the American 750W class 1 power limit. If you buy an standard ebike with a Bosch engine it's usually rated at 650-700W.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Lol 250w unfortunately that seems to be a common law all of the EU UK and Canda 6 of 7 states in Australia with NSW having 500w at 25kph also
chrispark70@reddit
ANY bicycle can travel faster than 25kph. I hit 40kph going down a hill today, no electric or pedaling at all. The EU's regulations absolutely suck.
the_jeby@reddit
“Faster with effort” -> yes / depending on user ability
There is nothing that sucks
Pentosin@reddit
What are you even arguing here? There is no issue with pedelec going faster than 25kph. Its just not allowed to keep motor assist above 25kph.
Thats wrong. Any bike with motor assist above 25kph is classified differently.
chrispark70@reddit
Are you replying to me? I did not say the quoted text.
Pentosin@reddit
Its context.
chrispark70@reddit
My point is that if any pedal bike can reach 25mph (40k), it is silly to artificially limit the assist speed to 15mph (25k). The bike is built for this speed and most riders experience it when going down hill.
Of course, the EU is a totalitarian dictatorship with zero democratic legitimacy, so this is the kind of stuff one expects.
MinimumOne6110@reddit
I absolutely agree with you. The laws created by morons sitting on a chair and big chance they have no clue how electric bike looks like or the actual speed normal push bike can reach. Absolutely majority of road bikes travel together with traffic at 20-30mph on the streets so why to limit electric ones to 15mph which is way too slow and even dangerous as causes abstructions, especially when they are on the street and not a bike lane.
Pentosin@reddit
This is just stupid. You can both pedal the ebike faster than 25kph if you wish, and ride faster than 25kph downhill.
If you want an emoped, get an emoped. This part isnt an issue. 25kph limit is fine.
chrispark70@reddit
No, your idea is stupid, not mine. Physics are the same in the US as Europe.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I was told that the list applied to Ireland not the entire EU and I was just trying to explain where they aligned and where they didn't. No argument.
Pentosin@reddit
This IS from your list. And also from irl.
That is neither what your list says or how it is most places. You CAN pedal an ebike faster. You just cant have motor assist above 25kph.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yes to be technical correct it should say "any bike from the list" but in a subreddit about powered bikes i didn't see the need to clarify that i was talking about a list of powered bikes.
There was a very low chance for confusion, yet here we are.
Pentosin@reddit
Look at the line that says "faster with effort".
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I didn't make the list. I didn't even write the line about bikes being faster its a copy past from the source.
Would you like to know the source to make a complaint?
Pentosin@reddit
I have only quoted you from your own comment.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Which was a quote from the source. You have a problem with your quote of my quote which I wish I never quoted due to your critique.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Too true...
kynelly360@reddit
Hey OP, Can you add Electric SkateBoards to the list ??
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Sure thing for Ireland only, unfortunately:
Electric skateboards are not legal to use on public roads in Ireland, as they are often classified as Mechanically Propelled Vehicles (MPVs) under the Road Traffic Act, meaning they would require tax, insurance, registration, and an appropriate driving license, which is not currently possible for them.
kynelly360@reddit
Whoa that’s crazy.. they can’t make a law without a solution possible 😑
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Id day thell eventually get round to them. Skateboard have always had a bit of a hard time. From their invention people didn't believe they were a serious mode of transport but they became so popular and seen as a good way of keeping kids engaged with the building of parks. It's the same now. Some suit in an office said they are ridiculous and dangerous so ban them but next time round the laws are looked at I'm sure they'll bow to other countries adopting them.
chrispark70@reddit
I don't know about banning them, but they are ridiculous and dangerous. Same with EUCs. Which, btw, there are many people in Europe using EUCs which presumably are classified as a MPV.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Well professional scatboarders would probably disagree with you at their fans. It's a mutimillion industry.
I wouldn't get on one if you paid me, id kill myself lol.
Do you mind me asking what's an EUC? I'm not familiar with the abbreviation sorry.
chrispark70@reddit
OK, professional athletes are an exception.
An EUC is an electric unicycle. Some of these things can hit 60mph. If you run out of power, you will just fall. They are self balancing and need power to keep it balanced.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I've seen clips of people riding them they look like a bit of fun but just to mess about on wouldn't want 1 as my daily driver
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
They just don't make any sense. Just let everyone cycle up to 45kph, to keep them off motorways which is 50kph minimum. And punish speeders like they do for everything else. If they want an insurance pot to dip into settle on some nominal yearly fee for everyone. And unban e-skateboards
chrispark70@reddit
Yes, the 28mph (45k) speed limit in the US for class 3 is a better speed.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yes and its not like we be doing 45kph everywhere but it's great to have it when you need it...
vali20@reddit
Exactly. All this regulations are doing more harm than good.
Ceder_Dog@reddit
What do you propose instead?
chrispark70@reddit
Adopt the US system of 3 classes with a top speed of 45kph (27.9mph). Maybe limit kids to class 1 or 2 with class 3 being for adults.
Simpson93@reddit
Or the license plate and insurance that is required for scooters in germany ;)
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Is that true? Is it expensive? At least there providing insurance I'm having a terrible time finding someone to insure me
DJKaito@reddit
It's around 30€/year for a e scooter.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Oh that's not too bad. Easy tax money to.
Our emopeds have road tax of €35 for the year.
Then the insurance. I'm guessing. If you have some no claims bonuses will be €300/€400 new drivers probably €2000 a year
DJKaito@reddit
There are no bonuses. The bonus would be laughable fines for things like driving on the wrong side of the road (10€), illegal parking (10-55€), driving with more than one person (10€) aso.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Are they real fines?
With vehicle insurance here every year that passes by without you making a claim from insurance company they call it a "no claims bonus" so if you pay your insurance for 5 years and never claim any accidents from your company you have 5 years no claims bonus. Thats how our insurance starts off at €2000 or €3000 and you get a discount of about 20% each year you make no claim
DJKaito@reddit
Yes they are real fines you can get from police here in Germany. Insurance works here differently. The 30 bucks is for the insurance + license plate. You pay that every year and you don't get any bonuses. It's more like a subscription. They don't get more expensive.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
See that's the right way to do it. Here you have 17 year olds getting loans for insurance that costs more than their cars. It's crazy.
DJKaito@reddit
True, but I think fines should be higher. People think here "what so ever, it's just 10 bucks" specially for driving on the wrong side of the road (!) with their scooter. That's too dangerous for everyone. Car insurance is different but also cheaper. (250-750€/year, depending on how to insure your car.)
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah €10 says to me they've ant you to keep doing it.
No fines in ireland are cheap
Common fixed-charge notices (FCNs) in Ireland include: * Speeding: €160
Holding a mobile phone while driving: €120
Non-wearing of a seatbelt: €120
Failure to display L or N plates: €60
Driving unaccompanied (learner driver): €80
FCNs increase by 50% if not paid within 28 days, and serious offences like driving without insurance can result in a court fine of up to €5,000.
5ma5her7@reddit
Will there be demerit points on your driver's license if you get caught? Or simply just 10€ fine?
DJKaito@reddit
Simply a 10€ fine. No points for doing that. You can loose your license or getting points for other things like driving drunk.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
We can get 12 penalty (drmerit) points and we are banned from driving. But for the fist 2 years after getting your licence 7 penalty points gets you banned
Simpson93@reddit
13€ for me for the scooter.
Simpson93@reddit
Cheap, 13€ a year and all the big insurances offer one.
Pispri@reddit
You can have a 250W Continuus Bike and have it Peaked to 750W Like Bosch and Yamaha. Engwe does it too, with a Boost Button that gives 750W for 60Seconds. Of course you can repress that button after 60s.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I mean I've studied that thing now for ages and I can't see why not.
I says "max continuous power" so if your praking at 750 for periods it has to be legit right.
wesblog@reddit
I would build my own 750W bike and slap a 250W sticker on it. Those rules are crazy.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
A sticker won't fool this
wesblog@reddit
Yeah. But the chance you happen to ride by on the one day a year they cart this machine out to do enforcement is so small it isnt worth considering.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Tour not wrong. They bought 4 with the intention of buying more.
Id say their all in city centers
Pispri@reddit
Most bikes that are cool have a hidden software menu where you can adjust the speed limiter and currently that’s total legal. If you go faster than 25 it’s not considered an e-bike anymore
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah but the dyno calculates the time it takes to get to 25 which gives them the motors power rating. They thought of that
wesblog@reddit
Does the EU not have any sort of illegal search/seizure laws? In they US they would at least need to have a reason to believe you were committing a crime before they could detain you and search your ebike.
DDRitter@reddit
The reason being seeing you passing actual bikes on your bycicles. \^\^
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Foe once we're stricterctgan the Americans. The fact that they suspect you have chosen to operate a bike that illegal is enough for them to stop you.
Also when the cops get a warrant to search a house they just search the car as well no need for a warrant to search a vehicle which I know is a big deal in the states.
LankyTradition6424@reddit
Most European countries have more sensible legislation. As an example, deciding to use a vehicle on public roads is enough reason for the police to inspect said vehicle, for safety reasons.
acezoned@reddit
No it is a privilege to have a driving licence not a right and part of the privilege of being allowed on the road you agree that you can be stopped for anything to make sure you comply with the rules of the road.
Also the uk doesnt allow private Escooters nor does it allow the faster ebikes only 250w pedal assist, throttle only for walking mode
wesblog@reddit
The funny thing is that I've ridden 65 kph on my regular bike. And they want to limit you to 25 kph for ebikes? 25 mph is a more reasonable limit. But I still set my motor to 30 mph top speed.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah 45kph is my sweet spot. Not all the time lol but on long straights and country roads if I'm not at least 45kph it just feels like running would be quicker. (I know we don't run 45kph)
CookiezFort@reddit
The assist is speed limited, you can still go faster.
Wayfinder67@reddit
In NL that's not legal, and if you can't remove it your bike will be destroyed.
Pispri@reddit
That’s why I can disconnect the i button on the input cluster - you can’t get into the software menu and change the speed limiter anymore - the bike also has a certificate of conformity as well as the possibility to mechanically lock the drivetrain so even if you pedal at 150rpm, you would only reach 25 kmh.
The only thing getting crushed is your hopes to destroy this perfectly road legal e-bike.
Wayfinder67@reddit
That's great. But if they suspect something illegal, even if they can't find it, they will just destroy the bike if you don't give up your secret.
Again, here in NL this is not legal. No idea why you're making this personal.
CheetahNo1004@reddit
*you're
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
It should have a capital y while we're playing who's the bigger grammar nazi
CheetahNo1004@reddit
Nope. I was amending a word, not a part of a sentence, nor was I stating a sentence. Also, I was correcting spelling, not grammar. You are attempting to correct orthography.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Right.... You're one of them!
Nice to meet you. Did this comment meet you English standards? I'm dying to know 🥱
FeelingAd9929@reddit
Just have a switch to limit speed
Pispri@reddit
Egg rider Display would
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
They don't use the bikes screen it has its own screen .
It also calculate how long it takes to get to 25 giving the motor power rating
Pispri@reddit
Menu button disconnected, locked to 25 and gearing done so 150rpm at the cranks equals 25 kmh. Certificate of conformity.
My bike is diy, 1600w Peak and 250W Nominal with a certificate of conformity for the engine and it’s locked to 25 so they ain’t taking mine. And I still can just switch to 60 xD
I also expect anyone who can’t change their settings to run, same with the tuned scooters.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
If your able to restrict/control the controllers output of Amps you can pass the dyno. But 99% of bikes out their will fail with an electronic restriction to 25kph.
Pispri@reddit
I was thinking about registering it as a 45KmH S Pedelec but I Dislike helmets so no. So I restricted it to 25 kmh for on road use.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Lol i hated the idea on a helmet but I eventually got one and now I use it I don't even know its there honest.
Pispri@reddit
In the certificate of conformity, power output over 15/30 minutes is tested at 25Km/H If it’s nominal output output is more than 250Watts over 15/30 Minute Period on a flat road or if it can go faster than 25 then it’s not an e-bike anymore.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Hey you mentioned the Certificate of Conformity so I have to ask do you know any ebike companies that supply them with their bikes? I've only found 1. But online I've found scans of CoCs from engwe and about 5 other ebike companies. So someone them make them. I've asked about 50 ebike companies and they all say oh sure we have CE Certificate with the bike. It's frustrating
Pispri@reddit
Engwe has them, some bafangs have them. Most of them are not shared online since it’s a vehicles pink slip with vin.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I've found 4 or 5 from Engwe online but the engwe eu website hasn't a clue about them. Obviously they need to keep sensitive details secret
Thanks for your reply
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
No way, I seen "15/30 mins" written on the CoCs a few times. So that's a good thing right?
The 1 with the boost button would be 259w flat and the other style would have what? 15 or 20 second peaks at run up to speed then stick at 250w right?
Pispri@reddit
The Engwe l20 has a boost button that enables 750W for 60S for climbing hills. You can press the button again after 60s to re enable the boost. But you can’t go faster than 25, it’s only boost for uphill or get going. You can unlock the Engwe l20 though. Then it goes about 35 ish
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah but for the 15/30 test if they don't touch the boost it's motor will be 250w constantly whereas the others are variable and peak during acceleration so as it gets to 25km/h it will go 750w and rest at 250w once 25 is reached
Pispri@reddit
That’s the beauty of the 15/30 minute test. It also caps the maximum vehicle weight and size because if you need more than 250w to move something at 25Km/h, its either big or heavy but not a bicycle anymore mkay ;)
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
We're just too good at loopholes and bending rules 😆
Pispri@reddit
The laws of physiiiiics . Pretty sure tho a horse is more powerful and fast and cooler than an e-bike :/
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Only 1 horse power though 😉
ChPech@reddit
You can even have it peak at 10 kW
Pispri@reddit
10kw is crazy for a bike. You can not endlessly accelerate in a 15 minute period because it would put you over 250w Nominal for 15 minutes.
ChPech@reddit
The law does not specify 15 minutes, but realistically you just need 15 seconds of that kind of acceleration.
Pispri@reddit
The EU tüv tests nominal power output over 15/30 minutes and that watt value is written in the certificate of conformity.
If has more nominal output than a horse, it should be treated it as a motor vehicle
Horses are just awesome.
ChPech@reddit
Yes, but as we have learned from VW, it just has to fulfil the regulations if it is currently measured by TÜV, otherwise we can just do whatever we want.
Pispri@reddit
A Horse is 500KG with 1000W Nominal and 16000W Peak Output.
soaimed@reddit
Portugal rules are: <=1000 watts, no accelerator and engine must cut-off before 25kmh/h. If the ebike is heavier than X kg, you need to have insurance. That's it
MatterOutrageous7852@reddit
hahaha. Europe is a joke
littlealpinemeadow@reddit
I don’t understand the European hate boner for throttles on e-bikes. I’ve never seen an ebike with a throttle that allows you to go faster than pedal assist. Ebike riders often stay in high gear so they have some resistance to pedal against while the electric assist is active. It’s so much easier to start back up after a stop in high gear with a little throttle before the pedal assist kicks back in. Also it’s much easier to control your speed in slow/crowded situations with the throttle instead of jolting forward with pedal assist every time you pedal
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
What i would do for 5 more gears! 7 is not enough when i reach top speed on pas 5. Just feels like first gear
Wintlink-@reddit
If they want people to stop using car for everything, they better just let people go faster with e bikes.
I mean not 150km/h, but if you use a normal bicycle, it's pretty easy to go faster than 45km/h, so why limit e bikes ?
Also, just create speed limits for bikes, like if you are on the road, it's the speed limit of cars that limit you up to 60km/h, and if you are on a lane shared with pedestrian, it's 25, and if someone get caught faster than that somewhere where it's not allowed, it's where you punish them.
Limiting power output is really stupid, I live somwhere with a lot of mountains, and with 250W your bike will not be very usefull. But like always, this legislation is made by people who have big luxury SUV, that never rode a bycicle during this century, and that live in a flat city.
dejavu2064@reddit
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Counter argument. Most cyclists can’t go faster than 45 kph on the flat or uphill, they can only do it on downhill sections, they can’t sustain it. Those that can have spent thousands of hours developing that ability, and have developed advanced bike handling and traffic management skills.
High powered e-bikes enable people to get to those speeds without putting in the time to develop the skills that keep them safe.
i_forgot_my_sn_again@reddit
Counter to your counter.
An 18 yo can purchase a motorcycle with a learner license and go faster than 45kph with no training or experience. If you're going to require a license and registration for an ebike (or emoto) because it can do 45, you'll get people to stop buying them and get an actual motorcycle or people still riding them illegally.
Ryu_Saki@reddit
Where can they do this? In Sweden you need a full blown license to do all of that and that is expensive. What you are saying would probably be correct in my country atleast (Sweden) if no training was needed and cheaper of course.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
So we are agreed that you should have (at least a learner) license and insurance for a bike that can sustain 45kph?
If that means that people choose boones that go faster I’m ok with that. But price becomes an issue. Not everyone with a motorcycle license buys a 1500cc Harley, some people buy a 70cc Vespa, or it’s electric equivalent.
i_forgot_my_sn_again@reddit
No we aren't agreed.
My point is there's no difference in the safety (which is what you made a point of) in someone obtaining a license for an e bike and someone getting an actual motorcycle. Even a 125cc learner motorcycle will go 100kph. There's no training required.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
If I had the choice between an electric engine bike and a combustion engine bike with similar price, insurance, licensing, power… I would choose the electric one. Cheaper, quieter, more reliable steering in cold weather, easier to store over the winter.
The seems to be a belief in this sub that e-bikes should be cheaper/easier to license and insure than combustion engine bikes of similar performance. Possibly be try are somehow morally better. I don’t see that. Insurance and licensing exist for safety reasons, which are independent of the engine technology used.
Ceder_Dog@reddit
So, what reason does it matter whether someone buys a motorcycle or a ~~moped~~ higher speed electric bicycle? And, as you mentioned, there is no difference in safety, so that's a great argument in favor of them both requiring license and registration.
Some may choose a motorcycle and some may choose the bike. They both can exist in this world and both are best to be regulated at higher speeds, imo.
cyri-96@reddit
It's not a special license though, the license required for fast e-bikes is the same as for mopeds, it can normally be aquired at 16 years old and will also be aquired together with car licenses at no additional cost.
Yeti_of_the_Flow@reddit
It’s a special license in that it’s completely unrelated to riding a bicycle.
cyri-96@reddit
It's the same license as for mopeds, normal bicicles obviously don't require licenses, but grouping fast electric bicycles with mopeds isn't really all that out there, both are powered vehicles but with much lower power than full motorcycles
Yeti_of_the_Flow@reddit
It is, but with no bicycle riding provisions. It’s not relevant.
Wintlink-@reddit
Counter argument, I’m not a pro cyclist and so can do it on flat with a good road bike. What keep a cyclist safe is to be aware of his environnement, to wear decent protection gear, and to have a cyclist lane, and two big gyroscopes that are the wheels. Still, bike is the safest way of traveling that exist by a decent margin (excluding walking).
notacanuckskibum@reddit
I don’t say pro, I said experienced. How long did it take you to be able to sustain 45 kph on the flat?
Wintlink-@reddit
Don't know, I just use a bike to travel almost everyday since I was 8. Not a pro cyclist, I just use a bike to move myself.
5ma5her7@reddit
I really don't think there's chance for you to go that fast on an ordinary bike for you in cities like Amsterdam...the bike path is always crowded with bicycles.
Wintlink-@reddit
And that means you wouldn't go fast on an e bike neither
bubudio@reddit
In my country (Italy) you can drive a 125cc bike with only a car licence. When I got my first bike I bought it in the afternoon and drove home for 90km with zero experience. Up until 20 years ago you could ride a moped at 14yo with no license.
Requiring insurance on electric vehicles will limit their adoption, if I have to pay an expensive insurance for a 1000-2000-3000 W bicycle I’d rather spend a similar amount of money to insure my 35000 W motorcycle. I’d only switch to electric if it was more convenient, aka no plate, no insurance and no license (so I can’t lose points on it).
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Well yes, requiring insurance on powerful e-bikes will make owning them more expensive. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong thing to do. If motorcycles need insurance, because of the expensive accidents they can cause, that logic applies equally irrelevant of the engine technology involved.
Yeti_of_the_Flow@reddit
Why does it matter if it's sustainable or not? The fact is, you can go faster than regulated speeds for e-bikes with an analog bike. These restrictions for throttles are even dumber, as if a bicycle is somehow less safe using a throttle versus pedaling?
The only danger related to the road are the cars. The only thing that should be more strictly policed are the cars. Removed all variables, and it's the cars that cause all the problems. A 1000W motor on a bicycle with a throttle is not and never will be the actual concern.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
If I’m cycling (no engine) then I might go over 45kph, but only for a few seconds, maybe 1% of my time on the road. It’s dangerous, but it’s rare. Much like cycling in a hail storm is dangerous but rare.
There’s this guy called Pogacar, he can cycle over 45 kph consistently (without a motor) but he has the experience to handle it.
His experience is comparable with my motorcycle license, which proves I can handle faster speeds.
Yeti_of_the_Flow@reddit
Licenses don't say you can handle faster speeds, they say you can handle a vehicle. Analog bikes don't require them. E-bikes the same as analog bikes, just with accessibility features.
Also, if e-bike regulation was about safety, these governments would be establishing new licenses for them that aren't associated with other licenses that aren't relevant. They aren't. E-bikes are safe at 45kph, 30mph, whatever. Car manufacturers spend a lot of money on lobbying worldwide. It's not about safety.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
My motorcycle license proves that I can manage a balance based 2 wheel vehicle at highest speeds. I used to have a moped license that only proved I could handle a limited power 2 wheeled vehicle up to about 50 mph, because that’s as fast as they would go.
In principle danger doesn’t go up with speed, but in practice it does. The energy transfer of a sudden deceleration (a crash) increases with the square of the initial speed.
Yeti_of_the_Flow@reddit
These are speeds we know bicycles are perfectly safe. You can ride however slowly you want.
Nothing will stop the truth that the only danger on the road is the cars.
Ceder_Dog@reddit
Whew, cognitive dissonance is strong with this one
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Four riders have died while racing the Tour de France, no cars involved. Your perspective seems more based in politics than reality.
Yeti_of_the_Flow@reddit
You realize that's like saying boxercise is dangerous because fighters have died, right?
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Pretty much. I had never heard of boxercise till now. But every activity has some level of risk. Clearly riding a bike has its dangers, I have fallen off my bike multiple times. Clearly I didn’t die but it could have been worse. Cyclists suffer injuries like broken clavicles in crashes all the time, without cars involved.
TheTrampIt@reddit
You have never ridden a bicycle…
If you have, I want to see you maintain 45 km/h, and I won’t use my bike: I can maintain 30, and not for long.
25 km/h al already faster than what normal cyclists do on normal city roads: the average I see is below 20
Wintlink-@reddit
what the hell, I was able to maintain 30 km/h on a mountain bike on a flat road when I was 14.
A non trained random people can do 30 without any trouble with a road bike.
TheTrampIt@reddit
At 14… I’m 62!
lntw0@reddit
Easy 45kph?
Downhill ok, but the tdf peloton in the flats is pushing 50kph. A run of the mill bike commuter ain't consistently pushing anywhere close to a consistent 45kph - ever. Pushing steady 25kph for a solid 30min on the flats is, for most, a real grind.
foghillgal@reddit
People keep saying people on bikes go 45 so I'm sure they actually almost never saw that. Around here we have a F1 circuit which off race is used for high speed bike training and let me tell you, when a peleton goes pass you at 50kmh it is properly terrifying !!
Most high speed bikers people see past them in the city are going 30-40kmh on the flat unless its on a downhill . Sustaining 45 kmh on the flat going solo is very very very hard. I can do it for about 5 minutes and I'm in great shape. The energy needed to get up in speed is non linear. going to 45kmh without any wind takes 4 times more energy than getting to 23kmh and not twice as much. If you factor air resistance it is even worse. the effort to Keep up that speed considering air resistance is also squared.
genuineforgery@reddit
This all of this.
How does the ridiculous EU ebike repression square with their environmental laws in their minds?
dustinsc@reddit
Am I reading this correctly that you cannot have a throttle at all until you get up to the 4000W classification? That eliminates much of the usefulness of something like a Class 2 e-bike in the United States, which allows you to quickly get up to speed from a stop.
Ryu_Saki@reddit
Depends on the country. In Sweden you can have a throttle only on a bicycle but as with all e-bikes they are limited to 250 watts but isntead of 25 as with a pedelec it is limited to 20 km/h. There is also Moped class 2 which is allowed to have 1000 watts continous which has throttle only and 25 km/h.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
No I'm sure it means between 1000w and 4000w your allowed a throttle.
Sad-Tangelo6110@reddit
This makes so much sense.
chikiyaki@reddit
It’s so funny US citizens coming here and criticizing EU. In the city I live population of people cycling daily is more than people driving cars. There has been 1 fatal accident in 8 years. Go on it your freedom.
jarvischrist@reddit
Yeah I'm a bit tired of US riders who are probably used to riding on giant stroads with trucks (and being the only cyclist on the road) telling us it's ludicrous that we don't want to share well-used bike paths in dense city centres with people riding double the speed of people on normal bikes. Getting passed by those bikes with like two centimetres of distance is not fun at all, and there has been a big rise in accidents because of it! People are even starting to wear helmets again (NL) because it's more dangerous to cycle on bike paths in these crowded areas. E-bikes are great but if we're not sensible about it by regulating what categories are ok to use in different contexts, they'll just end up getting banned entirely.
SlippyCliff76@reddit
I'm tired of hearing from European riders complain about a modest 5 kph difference in speed and the presence of throttle on ebikes when we have plenty space and low bike volumes.
This is a predominantly US sub on a US website after all.
kynelly360@reddit
Yeah those are the Hillbilly rednecks, that live in the country / rural areas of the US so theres tonssss of open space they Take for Granted… so many bums and poor education there unfortunately
Consistent-Tiger-775@reddit
This is right. I think almost all differences of opinion here are based on people having zero awareness that others live in quite different places.
jarvischrist@reddit
Yeah and just speaking from a Dutch perspective, faster ebikes (speed pedelecs, which iirc can have a throttle) are legal to ride on bike paths outside of crowded cities, so for people riding long distances to work, that's an option while still being able to avoid cycling by faster moving traffic. It's just that the increase in speed comes with more responsibility like having registration plates and wearing a helmet. In cities the average vehicle speed is so low that people on speed pedelecs are still probably a lot faster!
Ceder_Dog@reddit
Yeah, as a cycling enthusiast and Cali resident, I wish these were the rules and limitations here. It's bonkers that bicycles are permitted to go 28mph with a 750W motor. If someone needs something that fast or that powerful, then a bicycle isn't the answer.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
In a country of 5 million we had 3 ebike deaths this year. All Rider only accidents. But 147 people killed by cars in the same time
DJKaito@reddit
This is * A: NOT NEW. This is from an Article from 2024. * B: These are the rules for Ireland. *Source
Despite this, some of the regulations are also the same in other European countries. (20kmh on e scooters in Germany, 25kmh on Pedelecs in Spain, France, Netherlands, Germany aso.)
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
A: a law that's less than 12 months old is a new law. The cops are only starting to catch up and implement
B: I did apologise for the mix up but unfortunately the title can't be changed. The whole 250w 25km/h part is the entire EU everything above that seems to be localy handled
Careful-Training-761@reddit
They're all pedelecs apart from the last one which is throttle and rated 4000W. But what if you've a throttle but rated 1000W?
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Well almost right 251w to 1000w is 1 class and 1001w to 4000w is another class which can have a throttle or not but I'm sure 1000w with a throttle would be fine so long as you don't mind moving to the L1e-B category.
Careful-Training-761@reddit
I was referring to throttle there aren't any classes below 4000W not quite sure why you're bringing in the 251w to 1000w for throttle. Maybe my reference to 1000w confused you I just picked a random number below 4000w.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Whrmen it days 4000w it means UPTO 4000w.
When it says 1000W it means UPTO 1000W.
When it says 250w it means UPTO 250W.
Do you understand why I was bring up 251w now??
Careful-Training-761@reddit
I don't understand why you were bringing up 251w to 1000w it's irrelevant to throttle. My question only related to throttle. If my question related to pedal assisted the 251w to 1000w would be fully on point.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I just explained the entire chart power structure. From top to bottom. It's not rocket science. But seem to be having a bit of trouble understanding the power bands so I tried to help you.
Careful-Training-761@reddit
I have the misunderstanding now, you thought I couldn't interpret the chart for the pedal assisted, I could, it was only the 4000w for the throttle I was asking about.
Careful-Training-761@reddit
I understand it fine I just don't think you understood my original question, if you did I can't see the relevance of referring to 251w to 1000w it's totally irrelevant to throttle.
Careful-Training-761@reddit
I can't see any different classes for throttle below 4000w, I read it as all throttle bikes fall into that category.
BasilGood9889@reddit
Lol ok, I live in a Europe and it's 25 km/h and you are not allowe on dual carriageways 🤷
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
We realise this is primarily made for Ireland. Unfortunately I am unable to change the title. My bad.
DoesAnyoneWantAPNut@reddit
Yeah, I don't like it - mine has 750W, throttle cutoff at 20 mph (33kph) and assist maxing out at 28mph (45kph) - but I'm not in the EU.
I did see someone on a Talaria looking one in front of my kid's elementary (EU folks - read: primary) school popping a wheelie. Which was certainly not allowed here.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah you just proved the point that the bikes aren't the problem its the people who ride them
DoesAnyoneWantAPNut@reddit
My problem really was with the fact that the hardware was more powerful than it's street-legal to be- but then, I think the solution to that here is to require licensure and registration to be street legal over a certain amount of power- I'd say 1000W personally, but I'm biased- I do think mine is about as powerful as should be allowed without bumping things up a notch, but I'd understand if someone else being responsible would be peeved if their bike was effectively made not-street-legal here.
Which I suppose is a long winded way of agreeing that, yes, that guy wasn't being the most responsible or respectful driver/rider- but I think the EU regs definitely have right that regulatory regime should correlate with power output.
Regulation is just the way we coerce people to be more responsible and/or respectful when they might not otherwise choose to be- it's too bad that some are ruining the fun for others.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Absolutely. Well you just described this chart almost 1000w need registration and pay €35 road tax per year but no licence or insurance.
1001w to 4000w registration , tax,licence and insurance.
I have no problem with regulations its like you say to stop it becoming the wild West but there's 2 sides to the coin they need to stand by their regulations and help people comply with them. Here the government is fighting the registration of the bikes by being to strict on how the bikes are built. The insurance companies are playing hardball with policies for the bike.
If we're gonna live in harmony everyone should follow the rules. The prisoners and the jailers
DoesAnyoneWantAPNut@reddit
Yeah - they seem a little overcomplicated,. I think the thing I dislike most is the idea that a throttle immediately bumps the bike into the highest category - I mainly use throttle as a "Why is this car right behind me? Run Away!" safety feature - I wouldn't want to automatically need insurance or be disallowed from bike paths because of that.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
The throttle is my favourite part that's why I'm refusing giving it up and determined to get legal in the last category. If my heart failure affects me after 25 mins peddling I need the throttle to get home. And I leave it it gear 7 all the time and any time I need to start cycling like you were saying its very handy for that.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Looking at the chart I have two questions:
What is the definition of Europe here?
What is the advantage of owning a bike in the right hand category over a full on motorbike (combustion engine or electric).?
cyri-96@reddit
Well the license required is just the moped license, which can normally be acquired at 16, and will be automatically issued alongside car licenses.
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Fair enough, where I live I don’t think we have that distinction.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Well theconly thing i can think of to be honest is the most important part of the bike but just to me.
I have heart failure and need to exercise. So I can pop off peddling away for 30 minutes then if I get weak I can stop and use the throttle to get home. While sitting comfortably recuperating all the way home.
But I can't think of another reason lol
notacanuckskibum@reddit
Interesting. Your logic suggests that it can be pedaled. There is no row for that, but the picture at the top suggests that it has no pedals.
FWIW my wife’s bike would be a basic ebike by other standards but has a throttle that she uses to move off the lights. I guess it’s good that we don’t live in Europe.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Its weird there's no pedels in the picture. But you see the row "needs to be peddled"? Well under scooter it says "no pedels" but under the last bike it just say "no" (peddling not needed)
I suppose they imagine most 4000w emopeds will be full mopeds just electric. But not for me. It's the only exercise my heart gets i do about 25kms a day
Feeling-Big-4544@reddit
Oh I don't because I live in the United States. Ebikes laws are so lax majority of the country
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
That's great to hear. My small town is fine. So far. The city's are taking it seriously with dynamometer check points
Feeling-Big-4544@reddit
See this even in the States / towns where they are doing crackdowns on e-bikes they've never used these
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Deadly serious
ResurrectedToast@reddit
That is some serious bullshit. It's a bike, with a motor.
Can they measure how fast someone on a normal bike gets to going down a big hill?
Nonsense. Waste of taxpayer money. Fuck the police.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Monumental waste of money and they bought 4 of them and 5 officers standing around doing nothing their wages are a waste also
QUEENSNYLAWYER@reddit
defund the police. like who tf has the money or the time for this machine and this bullshit?
25 MILES PER HOUR safe harbor for ebike/escooter without all this paperwork/lic/reg/ins bullshit!
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
You preaching to the choir my friend
Feeling-Big-4544@reddit
No no I know you're not lying cuz I see the videos on the internet It's just I was saying they're not using these in the US
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Not yet lol
Feeling-Big-4544@reddit
Well I don't ride e-bikes but I do ride fast scooters and fast fooders are less attention grabbing 🙃🙃🙃
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
The scooter are the most complained out in Ireland. With kids going 65km/h through the city
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Dyno checks are prejudiced against fatties
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
That's the cops out so lol
SadInterjection@reddit
So nice, sad that the EU needs to regulate everything to death
Simpson93@reddit
You know what, i like all the regulations that we have here.
There is no reason for an escooter in the EU to go over 20kmh. It's not like we have to cover 100km on them, they are meant for the last mile.
At a certain point those scooters just simply become dangerous.
Multiple teens driving a modified scooter going 50kmh after drinking at a club going down the road/pedestrian area.
And most of the scooters are purchased for very cheap on ali, those brakes can never stop two adults going 50kmh.
so the rules are clear:
Like i always say, those things are not built for the stuff that you see on youtube.
If you want more ppl, go for a car. If you need more speed, go for a bicycle. If you want to drin, take the bus/train. If you want no speed limit, go with a car on the autobahn.
magicnubs@reddit
Whether or not we agree on the specific limits, I think we can all agree that regulating the weight and speed of eBikes is reasonable. Everyone can agree that going 200kph on a bike path is unreasonable, so now we're just arguing about where the line should be drawn. Getting hit by someone going 50kph on a 70kg bike is going to be a lot more likely to result in an injury than getting hit by someone going 25kph on a 15kg bike (on the bike I linked, the battery alone is 16kg, almost twice what an average normal bike weighs). There needs to be distinction between eBike, eMoped, eMoto, etc and which type can ride on which paths/roads.
Being the in US, I personally am glad that we have higher than 25kph speeds allowed in our eBike classification here; mostly because, while I would like to avoid being in car traffic at all, we have so little good bike infrastructure that I am almost always forced into car lanes for most bike trips anyway. I like that my class 3 ebike can get up to 28mph/45kph, which keeps cars behind me from getting antsy and passing unsafely when I'm riding among cars downtown (where the speed limit is 25mph/40kph), but that I can also take it on our greenways/MUPs (multi-use paths). But I also never get near the top speed on MUPs, and our MUPs often have speed limits of 10-15mph/15-25kph anyway. I wonder if limiting eBike speed via geofencing would be a good solution once it's practical.
Ahuevotl@reddit
We don't have such regulations in Mexico City. Right now, a vehicle that weights 80kg and goes up to 80km/h can circulate in the confined bicycle lane. That's not safe, nor fair, for cyclists.
Specially in a city with so much traffic.
Just saying, some regulation is better than none.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Its a pain in the arse
DjiMtb@reddit
Which country is this for?
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
The 250w max ebike and 25kph is all Europe the rest are intended for ireland. Some countries in Europe may have the same rules but could do it completely their own way either.
Kletronus@reddit
There is a EU framework, a set of regulations that they recommend for member states, and member states make their own laws, that then go to EU to check if they are compatible enough to keep the single market working. They are ROUGHLY the same in most if not all EU countries but country specific variations do occur. What should stay the same is how you can sell these things, that manufacturers do have one set of regulations but the bike they sell might be in slightly different category with the exact same features. EU really only care about the single market, trying to unify laws and regulations to be similar enough so you can buy a bike from Germany and use it in Sweden or Italy. You may have to buy a traffic insurance in one country and not in the next. But the product is the same, and PAS bikes are not categorized as motorbikes in any of them.
ScaldyBogBalls@reddit
In Ireland and wouldn't even consider an ebike because of this. I can exceed 30kph easily on my own, and 250 watts isn't going to do much on hills where it counts for my 194cm 100 kilo self.
Mal-De-Terre@reddit
I bet you've never tried. Pro cyclists put out around 200w to 250w average, and at 100 kg, pretty sure you aren't one of those.
ScaldyBogBalls@reddit
If it cuts off at 25kph, 90% of the time I'm dragging the motor and batteries around with no benefit whatsoever. I've tried an ebike with the limit on a hill. Pathetically weak. Total waste of money
Fair-Discipline-1005@reddit
Thank You for this informations...👍
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
No problem bud 👍
1995toyotacorrolla@reddit
In us? Basically no rules as long as your not speeding or being stupid. You can ride a surron in the bike lane next to a cop and they won't care as long as you're below 20 mph
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah in Ireland they were fine then they were 3 Rider only accidents where they died all closr together and people outraged. Meanwhile 147 people died in car accidents this year so far.
derping1234@reddit
So many exceptions to this. In Austria longtails are -technically not allowed to carry more than one passenger even though they are designed for this purpose. An e-scooter is also not considered generally accepted or safe and thus excluded from insurance cover when commuting https://eurogip.fr/en/austria-an-accident-while-travelling-on-an-e-scooter-is-excluded-from-accident-insurance/
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah we figured that out but I have no way to change the title sorry! My bad.
InvestigatorSenior@reddit
not all EU countries adopted all those categories. For example my country does not have L1e-A and L1e-B throttle. I'd love to have 1000w option for cargo bike that still can use bike paths.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
1yea we figured that out but can't change the title sorry!
GoldPaleontologist6@reddit
Is this for uk aswell
Mormegil81@reddit
these are definetly not EU wide regulations, each country has their own rules. here in Austria my Scooter is allowed to go 25km/h and I can use an eBike with throttle without any issues ...
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yes we figured that out. Unfortunately there's no way to change the title sorry!
4look4rd@reddit
Wish we had that in the US too. 250w 25kmh is ideal for using biking infrastructure, beyond that and you really should be riding with cars.
Throttle is another thing that needs to go away. It’s not a bike anymore.
The main point of the assist is to help with hills and to get up to speed from a stop, it shouldn’t be the primary way of moving the bike.
Ceder_Dog@reddit
Couldn't agree more
SadInterjection@reddit
25kmh is way too slow, it's stupid.
leoedin@reddit
Yeah, I think 25 kph actually makes bike infrastructure worse. The e-bikes are quick off the line but then get passed by the pedal bikes at speed, and then overtake again at the next lights. It would be smoother riding for everyone if e-bikes were a bit faster - maybe 30 kph.
4look4rd@reddit
its 25kph for assistance, you can go faster pedaling. The assistance helps you get to speed but its not a max speed for the bike.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
25 is way to slow thats why ibwant a legal L1e-B it's 45km/h which is perfect.
And no I need the throttle. I have heart failure I can't always pedal so the throttle makes sure I can get home if I'm struggling
Simpson93@reddit
See, there is even an option for you.
But you will also see that there are a lot more requirements, which just makes sense. At those speeds the frame has to be sturdy enough to hold up, the brakes are beefed up to be able to stop you, license/plate/insurcance is required, helmet is required and your are not allowed to use bike lanes.
For me this kinda makes sense. Most of the cheap ali scooters are simply not designed for those speeds. i went 32kmh on mine (downhill and it started beeping at me) and it started feeling wobbly and braking took a really long time.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I absolutely couldn't agree more. Thats why my country has classified the L1e-A and L1e-B as "Mechanically Propelled Vehicles" just like any car or truck. So they need an EC Certificate of Conformity which test about 200 point of data. I have an example of 1:
That's a real ebike company selling bikes
SadInterjection@reddit
Can't make them to useful, else people won't buy cars anymore :(
Think about the poor car lobbyism aka bribery.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
My condition requires i use a throttle occasionally
punksnotdead@reddit
EU = very safely going nowhere
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Are you in the states? What way does the classification go where you are?
bhtooefr@reddit
In the US, it's a mishmash of state and federal laws.
The general outline is something like:
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Very interesting. Quite different but both of ours are overly complex.
Ceder_Dog@reddit
EU is better for all users holistically, imo. USA rules are self-centered & neglect how it effects those around them. Eg, a 28mph ebike zipping around 12-15mph analog bikes & pedestrians.
punksnotdead@reddit
I'm from EU.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
You in the same boat so.
Unless they don't enforce it as much there?
So far in a town of around 20 thousand people I've never had a run in with the cops. They've driven past and I tried to look slow lol but if you stay out of the cities we're safe. For now
daskino40@reddit
No throttle 🤦
MayIServeYouWell@reddit
Why in the world does a throttle matter?
My ebike has a throttle. I almost never use it, but it’s handy in very specific situations, like walking my heavy bike up stairs.
pinkprius@reddit
Walking throttle is allowed in EU. Up to 7kph or something, most Bosch bikes have it.
daskino40@reddit
Cheap mobility. If we deregulate and allow cheap Chinese it will be the cheapest way to reduce co2 and use of cars and public transportation.
5ma5her7@reddit
My ebike has one too, but I only use it in two scenarios, start on hills and start at junction.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
The l1e-B has a throttle. The last one on the list
phatalac@reddit
Scooters are also missing the fact that you will get a DUI if driving after drinking so they aren't like a bicycle in that sense they are like a car as they have a throttle and a license and insurance is needed possible only German specific tho.
Mormegil81@reddit
you also get a DUI if you ride your bike drunk - at least here in Austria that has been so long before there were even scooters and eBikes so thats nothing new ...
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
None of that needed in Ireland. So there's more variation than I thought 🤔
Opal_Opasm@reddit
I wish there were easier avenues of registering something like my wired warrior where I live, I’ve had it in class 3 mode for the vast majority of the time, at this point it’ll probably be easier to ditch it for a grom
CaliDreams_@reddit
Thats confusing as shit
Im glad here in the states I can ride my 750w bike with throttle and not have to deal with registration.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Lucky son'a gun
bigDpelican42@reddit
Fq Yeah, some logic at last. Hope that filters thru to Australia. Probably take a decade or more though. I have motorcycle licence and would love to be legally able to ride something more than 250W!
5ma5her7@reddit
I just hoping RTBU won't ban them on trains...
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
You guy are maxed out at 250w down under?? That sucks
genuineforgery@reddit
It's state by state, NSW it's 500w.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
I think it should be up to a thousand. And then like here 1000w to 4000w licence and insurance and rego
genuineforgery@reddit
NSW has 500w
Jswazy@reddit
It's so strange that Europe seems to love bikes but has such horrible draconian rules around ebikes and scooters.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Your so right. It health and safety gone mad
Jswazy@reddit
Yeah it really is. I do wonder if car companies are pushing for this stuff
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
In Ireland the taxi union have a lot of power. Too much power. We only have uber drivers for a year or so. Because the taxi unions put a stop to it. Eventually it was allowed but you have to become a fully qualified taxi driver to drive uber. Expensive and hard work.
They will be resisting people transporting themselves.
They are kinda like the church back in the day.
Jswazy@reddit
Yeah that really is the only reason for these kind of restriction. They say it's safety but if it was really safety they would be banning cars
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
If motor cars were invented today they would be banned straight away. Imagine pitching an idea of a vehicle filled with explosive liquid that is ignited in an engine thousands of times a second and all the toxic fumes coming out. Health and safety would be all over that. Trains and horses forever but we got reliant on then just at the right time
TEGHD1@reddit
So they banned Throttle??? Booooooo
ancientstephanie@reddit
They never allowed it to begin with.
5ma5her7@reddit
To be fair, I don't even know why ebikes in EU need throttles to begin with, bike infrastructure is perfect, no steep hills, and bike path is usually crowded with families...
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
You can have them on L1e-B
qwertyqwerty4567@reddit
Ru has never allowed throttle on ebikes. It's a really stupid idea since the dumb scooters use the same motors and have the same speed limits, yet are free to have a throttle, even though a scooter is way more dangerous than a bike
thereturn932@reddit
Idk where do you live but all scooters require license plate and insurance in Germany.
4look4rd@reddit
If it has a throttle it’s a scooter and it’s regulated differently.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
The last emoped on the list has a throttle its category is L1e-B
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
No the l1e-B has a throttle. Last moped on the list. I wouldn't be buying one if they were banned
Global-Twist69@reddit
What about E skateboards?
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Had to Google it. In ireland there banned full stop. Anywhere public at least
Global-Twist69@reddit
Damn that's crazy and I wonder if there'll be another fuss if a escooter has a seat.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
That is do know. There banned. 😆
SadInterjection@reddit
25 kmh is such a joke.
4000w and 45 kmh is a joke.
EU is a joke.
Everything regulated to death. I hate it here.
StudSnoo@reddit
Cuz unlike most places where people live in the US, you don’t need to drive on a 60 mph road just to go get some ice cream
SadInterjection@reddit
What has the USA to do with it lmao
qwertyqwerty4567@reddit
4kw/50cc + 45 km/h is the standard moped specs pretty much everywhere in Europe.
fsckit@reddit
Better than it being outright banned.
Mal-De-Terre@reddit
There's also weight limits, though I don't recall them off the top of my head.
macmannmemes@reddit
The EU are becoming N$z1s
defiantcross@reddit
it should honestly be a crime to artificially limit a 4000W continuous motor to just 45kph lol
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Yeah it's kinda pointless. Unless they build them like cars. Let them do 80 but just don't break the speed laws. Minimum on the motorway is 50 so that's why the cap them th 45 so there now peddling on the motorway 😆
MayIServeYouWell@reddit
This is so stupid and unnecessary. I can think of a dozen vehicles that don’t fit any of these categories, and multiple reasons why these things don’t make sense.
Regulate behavior. It’s much easier to enforce, and much simpler to explain. You don’t have to look at a massive table of specifications, just “is this person going over the posted speed limit for an unlicensed vehicle?” If so, that’s a violation.
genuineforgery@reddit
💯.
EU car lobby defeats citizens and represses improvements in transport.
Fearless_Tomato_9437@reddit
Damn, Europe kinda sucks
jdege@reddit
I have a Bafang BBSHD. Max power assist is 1000W, and it has a throttle.
But I can plug it into a laptop and reprogram it. Disabling the throttle, setting max assist to 250W, and setting max assisted speed to 25km/hr.
How would this be treated under the law?
ContributionDry2252@reddit
Not EU wide, but country specific. While these particular rules may apply somewhere, they're not valid in all of EU.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Agreed. I apologise, I can't edit the title unfortunately. The 250w 25km/h is EU wide but everything else seems to be decided at a local level.
My 👎
SerDuckOfPNW@reddit
Y’all got any more of them pixels
daskino40@reddit
Ok maybe the new li-eb classification could work. With throttle.
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
The L1e-B has a throttle. I wouldn't buy 1 if you couldn't have a throttle
SadisticPawz@reddit
ugh
LargeNerdKid@reddit (OP)
Test