Driven: The Tesla Model Y Standard Brings the Price Down—Along with the Content
Posted by DerBootsMann@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 84 comments
Posted by DerBootsMann@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 84 comments
DerBootsMann@reddit (OP)
i wonder , what’s wrong with blue ? or is the non-metallic gray just cheaper to make ? assuming tesla wants every corner cut , of course .. any ideas ?
mishap1@reddit
They probably did a survey and people said they like the blue more so they kept that on the "premium" model. The glass roof + cloth cover definitely costs more to make than the open glass but they can't really save much so all that's left is to punish buyers to convince buyers to spend an extra $100/mon on their payments for things they want after they've already got their heart set on the car.
AndroidUser37@reddit
They're using the older prefacelift, non noise insulating glass on these cars. There is savings there, and that's why they're adding the headliner to compensate. I wouldn't be so hasty to say that entire setup costs more overall, you're just a random internet commenter after all.
mishap1@reddit
I believe it's a return to the same glass on side windows and windshield as well from the pre-Juniper refresh. They could have very well just left the roof open for the same (but noisier) experience as the old car, but it seems the goal is to make buyers decide to spend the extra money on the "Premium".
This is pretty standard pricing strategy. It's just Tesla much more willing to explicitly nerf something the car already has. They create a "low price" version to get you to consider it when you were maybe trying to stay under $40k. Once you see they've got a nicer product overall, it's much easier to get you to spring for the "Premium" model since you don't want to lose out on all the nice doodads and have that poverty spec front end given it's just $100-150/mon extra.
edokko_spirit@reddit
I think Toyota is way worse. Toyota forces buyers to pay extra for higher trim levels and bundles just to get leather seats or additional safety features. And let's not even get started on how pedestrian and boxy Toyota vehicles looked compared to the sleek elegance of Lexus cars. Yes Toyota did that on purpose and Hyundai took the opposite route and gained market share.
aprtur@reddit
Toyota's options bleed across trims more than Honda's - they are truly the ones locking things to trim levels the most. It cuts both ways, though - customers aren't often complaining about finding the exact car they want, since the inventory structure is simplified, but you are also stuck with what those trim levels offer.
As for safety features, that's flat out false - Toyota was one of the first to make their safety suite consistent across the range. Where they're lagging currently is with models in different stage of life cycle - older cars still only have the older safety suite.
edokko_spirit@reddit
Good point on the TSS, but I'm just glad I don't have to deal with this BS: https://www.gulliverauto.com/blog/toyota-trims-explained-plano-tx
aprtur@reddit
That dealer site is kind of stupid - it's mashing together the different trims across multiple different model lines (for example, Capstone and Platinum are irrelevant to a line like the Corolla or Camry). There's really not that much more than what one of the most dumbed down trims lines is with Honda - they typically have 2-3 trim lines, and Toyota has 4-5, if you could Nightshade as an actual trim and not just a blackout package. I don't consider a slightly broader gradient in packages bad - like I mentioned above, it gives you more ability to not buy things you don't want, where companies like Honda force you into certain packages for certain options, which may or may not give you something you really don't want.
puddud4@reddit
Here's a great thread on the topic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/s/W1SDQRCwJl
The new roof doesn't have to be treated, tinted or dual panel acoustic laminated.
I paid $1,200 for my replacement Model 3 roof glass. A windshield for my BRZ (no sensors) cost $350. It wouldn't surprise me if Tesla cut cost by 60% with this new roof
Although some of that savings would be defeated by the cloth cover. Ugh idk
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
You're missing the point:
Covering the roof with a soft surface allows them to use cheaper glass on all the windows, while keeping the same noise figure.
It doesn't matter that the headliner costs a few dollars because they can save many multiples of that on the cheaper glass. So... you were wrong when you said earlier that this configuration costs more.
bakedvoltage@reddit
the glass roof also serves a manufacturing function since a lot of the interior assembly is machine assisted.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
I think its more likely that your average NPC buyer wants white, black or gray/silver and the people who want bright colors are more enthusiasts and will also want the extra features.
mishap1@reddit
Vast majority of Tesla buyers are not "enthusiasts" by the traditional sense. It's a California Camry/RAV4 and of course there are many people who will buy the most basic just to get in the door when it was early on and it was the most affordable/spaceship car out there.
If I'm a competent product manager, I don't want to give my customer everything they want on the most basic version of the car. It just erodes the entire value proposition of the "premium" car.
If anything, putting the most desired features behind a bundle is the ultimate way to raise the total transaction price. If I can get you to go +$5k and then another +$1k, then I've earned my bonus.
itsnottommy@reddit
The entire purpose of this model is to advertise a lower starting price, get more customers in the door, and then move them up the pricing ladder.
Let’s say you’ve been wanting a Model Y and the new base price is really attractive. You go to order one, but you hate gray and you don’t like the ugly 18” wheels. You’ll settle for black and the slightly less ugly 19” wheels, but it’ll cost you $3,000.
At that point maybe you just spend another $2,000 to get the Premium trim level with a radio, a glass roof, longer range, better acceleration, and the option to add paint in red which is your favorite color. Then your options really open up. You obviously jump at the chance to spend $2,000 extra for red paint. It’s another $2,000 for actually decent looking wheels. And you want everyone on Instagram to know you drive a Tesla so you option the white seats for another $1,000.
But now it’s optioned to be more expensive than the base Premium AWD model, and that would really be nice to have in the snow. So you switch to that and give it the same options. Maybe you add a tow hitch so you can tow your boat around.
Before you know it you’re spending $54,990 on a car that you only seriously considered buying because it now starts at $39,990.
I’ll admit that’s an extreme example, but that’s what they’re doing. It’s not out of the ordinary either. Apple and other computer companies do the same thing with RAM and storage upgrades.
IamTalking@reddit
I had a blue model 3. The paint was so bad from the factory they had promised it would be repaired after delivery. I made them put that in writing, knowing it never would be fixed. Drove the car for a year, claimed the tax credits, they never fixed the paint, they bought the car back at full MSRP/sales tax/reg fees everything. I got to keep $11,000 in credit and bought a different EV. From my experience and research, blue paint has the most issues on these cars.
ryzenguy111@reddit
Some of the other "premium" colours including blue have been found as images on the tesla configurator. I imagine they'll add them sometime soon
needmoresynths@reddit
This might be fine at $35k or less but why would anyone get this over an Equinox or MachE or Ioniq5/6 at $42k?
magshell-alpha@reddit
I don't think those other cars can detect and handle traffic lights or stop signs
ThatGuyFromCanadia@reddit
Neither can the Tesla
CheapTemporary5551@reddit
Not sure why you are being downvoted. That is factually correct.
NarcoCow@reddit
The Mach e is smaller on the inside
The Ioniq 5 and Kia ev6 are good options though
Although give it some time and both the standard and premium MY price sill drop
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
If you're comparing the base trims with no extra options:
Some people might prefer those tradeoffs, but you are making tradeoffs.
walnut100@reddit
Recall items are covered outside of warranty. Stop fear mongering.
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
Hyundai still doesn’t even know what causes the failures, and some people have had it fail multiple times.
“Stop fear mongering” LOL.
Yea, why be afraid of a problem that randomly bricks your car.
walnut100@reddit
And the vast majority of people haven't had fail at all with a sub 1% impact rate.
Even if it were a common problem you wouldn't have to worry about buying one outside of warranty because the ICCU is a recall item and it will be fixed no questions asked.
krazy4001@reddit
Tesla has some brand recognition as a “premium” offering. Despite all of the drama with Elon, Tesla is still one of the most valuable companies in the world. People will pay more for what they believe is a premium label
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
Because the Equinox and MachE are piles that drive like shit and have trash battery platforms? And the Ioniq5 is a Hyundai so you're stuck dealing with those assholes at the dealership.
I think you're very badly misinformed if you think people are interested in the Equinox/MachE/Ioniq5 at price parity with a Y, much less for 7 grand more.
needmoresynths@reddit
Have you ever driven a Y? It's certainly fast but also drives like shit
andrewia@reddit
My boyfriend got a Mach-E and it doesn't "drive like shit". Why do you think that it does?
Manafont-@reddit
The hate Tesla has been getting for this on other posts is interesting. I thought this sub wanted de-contented, cloth seated, basic options available? Still seems like it comes with a ton of stuff included in the list price.
Trades46@reddit
The new Bolt and Leaf both significantly undercut the price of Model 3 and Y std, have more features standard and more than likely better built. Both have NACS built in and Supercharger capable. Not to mention the Tesla brand...political baggage it carries nowadays.
renawld@reddit
People looking at Model 3s and Ys are not cross shopping the Bolt and Leaf. Completely different classes.
ThatGuyFromCanadia@reddit
I agree, the Bolt and Leaf are a whole class above the Teslas, which is kind of funny because it used to be the opposite.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Yep, for Bolt and Leaf ( not new crossover one ) answer, it would be Model Q or 2. However, their terrible CEO still think no body would buy it after RobTaxi on the way.
Manafont-@reddit
Isn’t the Tesla significantly larger than both of these?
hardcoreufoz@reddit
Yeah but then you'd have to be seen driving a Tesla
lamemonkeypox@reddit
Oh no! How will your fragile ego survive!?!?
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Toss the Ioniq 5 in there then
bmillions@reddit
The new Bolt is going to be the size of the old Bolt EUV.
Trades46@reddit
They are bigger in size. If that is important this is a selling point, but at the same time you can probably walk into a VW ID.4 and Chevy Equinox for about similar money given the factory discounts they're gettting nationwide.
I'm still very puzzled why you still go Tesla as the brand selling point was "the tech", but these car are decontented to the point it feels almost spartan even moreso base model German cars.
trail-g62Bim@reddit
Yeah it's a bit bigger than both.
desf15@reddit
Not sure about dimensions of new Bolt, but from Leaf definitely. It's about 40cm difference in length, that's a lot.
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
I can guarantee neither the Leaf nor the Bolt will be better built than the 3/Y. Both of them were piles of shit in terms of build quality before their refreshes and a new model always has new problems for the first few years. Chevy has already said the Bolt is a limited run model so I don't see them spending a dollar to fix manufacturability issues.
Hnry_Dvd_Thr_Awy@reddit
The simple answer is that Tesla is crazy hated on Reddit now.
just_an_avg_dev@reddit
It's not like it's undeserved honestly.
banned_from_r_cars@reddit
Tesla without Musk attached(idk if you can do that) is overall a pretty cool company. They've forced other auto makers to innovate, made EVs desirable, and change how people think about "driving" with FSD being fairly popular.
Its a company of over 100,000 people.
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
No it isn’t lol
aliniazi@reddit
Cool comment bro, exactly what are you adding to the discussion?
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
You’ll find it looking in the mirror
aliniazi@reddit
☝️🤓 "yOu'lL fInD iT lOoKiNg iN tHe mIrRoR"
HighHokie@reddit
Tesla has been shut on since day one. Even when Reddit had a very positive view on musk.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
No idea why…
joe2105@reddit
Oh, it's still a great appliance, but when you start seeing how many features other vehicles have comparatively for the cost, it gets difficult to justify it. For example, my VW Golf has travel assist, which I find equivalent to basic autopilot for far less cost, and Tesla removed that core function. Don't even compare to potential Chinese options.
Cloth seats are awesome, single pane glass is great for a cheaper daily, I don't need the screen in the back, old model Y glass for the hatch saves money, 18 in wheel options etc etc. But they removed autopilot and I think people will have issues with the cheap frunk.
Unusual-Arachnid5375@reddit
I think you're right that dropping lane-centering is a step too far (although, to be fair, the competition at this price point does not have lane centering, either--and some don't even adaptive cruise).
My bet is that that lane-centering comes back, either as standard or as a paid OTA upgrade. I don't think anyone is going to pay $8k for FSD on a base Model Y, so they need like a $500-1000 package with lane centering and speed sign recognition.
RyanOfTheVille@reddit
I think they just went too far with the content cuts for not enough of a price drop. Removing autosteer from autopilot and the glass roof when both of those things were free to keep is pretty ridiculous. They added complexity to their assembly line by changing the seats, the roof, the steering wheel motor and the bumpers. They could’ve left most of that and just cut the speakers, ambient lighting, ventilated seats, rear screen, and seat material and the $5k savings would’ve seemed more appealing.
Removing powered mirrors, seat adjustments on the seat, and powered steering wheel adjustment much less the glass roof and autosteer (2 options that are physically capable of being there) just feel like a slap in the face for $5k difference
SmokeyJoe2@reddit
They didn't remove power mirrors, that was a typo on their website. It's still power adjusting, but manual folding, like most cars: https://imgur.com/mh4WlGY
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Funniest part was they didn’t even change the roof, they just didn’t put a UV/tint coating on it and glued a fabric headliner on instead
RyanOfTheVille@reddit
Yeah, that’s why I said that was an option that was physically there but “removed”
mishap1@reddit
They didn't change the roof. The point wasn't to make a cheaper Model Y. It was to make their now "premium" version seem like the better deal.
Nerfing the car to hit a price point isn't something new but it isn't meant to sell a ton of volume in this case. By the time you order one, you're not that far from a regular one and I'm sure Tesla will just say, would you like to take this discounted "premium" one that's been sitting in the Texas sun for 5 months.
foodfoodfloof@reddit
That sounds like a terrible idea. Hey let’s create this disappointing release just to get people to buy some models that aren’t selling at a discount.
mishap1@reddit
Their last new model was the Cybertruck which was their first new model since the 2020 Model Y launch. It sold less than 5% of its reservations and sales have mostly stalled since then. Every other car is a rehash of their older cars.
They don't have anything else to sell right now since they killed the Model 2 (turned Cybercab never to be spoken of again). Their forward PE ratio is now over 260 so they need something to stay in the news even if it's them just enshittifying their one product that still sells any volume.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
We do, just not for the same price that the fully optioned version was last year…
ryencool@reddit
Right? With the tax credit we got our model 3 for 26,200 before financing...
tugtugtugtug4@reddit
Well, most critiques of Tesla are really just veiled contempt for the man who runs the company and not the product itself. I don't think anyone can really knock the product for the price its delivered at when you look at what else the competition offers.
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
Cutting auto steer is just idiotic. All of the competition in this price range has it. Plus it is still way too expensive. Chevy just announced a $10k cheaper EV. The Ioniq 5 undercuts it in whole.
ahorrribledrummer@reddit
Agreed. I get the Tesla hate totally, but from a consumer perspective this is a nice move to give people a good "transportation appliance" option.
Manafont-@reddit
Of course, plenty of perfectly valid reasons to hate Tesla, but here they are literally just giving consumers another option.
Intelligent_Top_328@reddit
Great car
Saragmata@reddit
Tesla THE BEST BEV
Gyat_Rizzler69@reddit
Lazy cost cutting. The car has all the hardware for basic autopilot auto steer but they disabled it. Costs them zero dollars to include it. Covered the glass roof with cloth, all the Tesla fanboys will claim they did it to reduce the load on the AC since the glass is not tinted. They could have just used the last generation model Y glass that they probably have plenty of. They made the frunk unsealed and shittier even though they have plenty of those cheap injection molded frunk liners. All these significant changes that make the car much worse but it's not significantly cheaper.
At this point it seems like they are just making the car so shitty that it makes the "premium" version look even better. Almost like they don't even want you to buy it.
aliniazi@reddit
Tell me you know jack shit about manufacturing without telling me you know jack shit about manufacturing.
Gyat_Rizzler69@reddit
Okay smart guy, tell me how creating extra part numbers when you have existing stock of parts and volume production of those existing parts is more expensive.
aliniazi@reddit
They don't have existing stock of the glass. Every car they make gets sold, every part they have gets used. They aren't like the legacy auto makers at all.
The previous gen Model Y glass still has the special multi layer coating which rejects UV and heat, this is the expense they are saving on by getting bare glass from their supplier instead.
Then you can say, why didn't they just remove the glass? The roof is used as an entry point for the robots assembling the interior. So they'd have to make major changes to the line for how the interior is made and also the paint line as well.
I used to work there in manufacturing tech. I think they understand what they're doing better than a reddit rando.
Gyat_Rizzler69@reddit
How much do you think they are saving by removing the UV layer versus adding back by having to add an upholstery process to the glass Doesn't seem like a significant amount as the vehicle is not significantly cheaper. And now you need to have a completely different process for this vehicle that is going to sell in fewer numbers than the three "premium" vehicles.
Also why not include autopilot for free, the vehicle already has all the hardware on there. They aren't saving anything by not including it.
For all I care, you are a reddit rando, I also used to work in vehicle manufacturing and design.
aliniazi@reddit
How much are they saving? I have no idea. My only reasonable guess is that they've saved less than they've reduced the price of the car so they cut into their margin for this model.
I don't agree that they've used it as an opportunity to make the car worse. Adding the headliner will reduce cabin NVH which allows to also save by skipping the dual pane acoustic glass that they use on the more expensive model Y.
In addition to that, it allows the cabin to stay cooler on sunny days which helps with efficiency. The increased efficiency allowed them to get rid of an entire battery module while barely sacrificing any range.
There's a give and take for everything, and a lot of the times the impact of certain decisions are completely invisible to the public. I don't work there anymore but when I did, these invisible changes were the majority of changes between model revisions.
There's definitely more that they've done here that I don't know about. I just know some really smart people work there and they have an extreme focus on efficiency, not just in the product but in the manufacturing as well.
Gyat_Rizzler69@reddit
New juniper glass: $1090 https://epc.tesla.com/en-US/catalogs/71faf230-35bb-4d6b-b030-2a0c69aa706f/categories/647db33b-7589-4c90-9662-88dab72456ed/subcategories/de273f42-1f95-49ce-8645-661813a08ebc/systemGroups/acbb6691-5122-4d6a-a427-490ebe1d5191
Old Model Y glass: $1130 https://epc.tesla.com/en-US/catalogs/207e39de-1289-4baa-83e5-c77ba9d53194/categories/0a4736ec-59dc-4f41-a559-5400fa0eb61e/subcategories/7e7d9adc-74d2-494c-874e-6b63ea8035d0/systemGroups/b3161b27-2a42-462b-b836-1655be43f20b
Even the retail price of the juniper glass is lower, so I don't buy that they are saving a significant amount removing the double pane tinted glass. I doubt the new glass assembly is going to save even 10% of the cost.
aliniazi@reddit
I don't think comparing retail prices is a useful metric at all.
Also, I'm pretty sure the old model Y glass has the exact same coating.
Let's assume the $40 difference in actual cost to them is accurate. So let's say the new untinted glass is $40 cheaper than the current coated glass.
$40 per vehicle adds up. All of the additional savings (single pane glass, reduced sound deadening, making the battery smaller) will add up even more.
$40 is just an assumption. My semi-educated guess is that it's actually a couple hundred per piece of glass. They come coated from the manufacturer. It's a multi layer coating that adds a bit to its manufacturing process.
Ihathreturd@reddit
It's not a video game. It's not a package. It's not a trip universal.
It is a car. Terms like 'content' cannot and should not be used to refer to vehicles.
GeneralCommand4459@reddit
I watched the review of the Model 3 Standard and note they’ve brought back the indicator stalk.
lilleulv@reddit
It's brough back in all Model 3s, not just the Standard.
Trades46@reddit
Why the hell is that a selling point? They're the ones to remove it in the first place, and also have the audacity to charge existing owners ~$500 to put it BACK.
Snoo93079@reddit
Nobody is saying it's a selling point. But it is good they brought it back.
vargemp@reddit
They could make it harder, cutting speakers to just 2/4 on the front, no rear vents and manual seats. That'd be perfectly fine with some people. And covering glass roof with material, god, thats mental.
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