Work is forcing us to install an APP can we say no??
Posted by Dangerous_Feed_7264@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 101 comments
The Company I work for is forcing us to install and APP on our phones to clock in and out of work in a Geofence. I don't install anything on my phone which tracks me ( I know it does anyways but i try to minimise it) I also would never buy smartwatch as I figure they made Ankle tagging profitable and attractive to idiots same with Alexa. Is there anything that I can do so I don't have to install this APP? No one in work is ever late except the directors who wont have to install the APP.
Street-Oil8138@reddit
The other problem with work apps is that they insist on having some control over your phone. I recently wanted to make a change in my settings to open a website that contained information only suitable for adults and that Google has erroneously flagged as inappropriate. I found I couldn't because my personal device is managed by the educational centre where I work and adult content is not allowed there (understandably), so I couldn't turn off the "safety switch" (can't remember what it's called - ICT is not my thing). This isn't usually a problem for me, as I wouldn't normally want to see any adult content. But, if I did, I'm an adult and I should be able to watch or purchase anything I like, providing it's legal. In my own time, on my own device. I have the work apps for my own convenience, but I may end up deleting them if anything else I want to read up on is not allowed because Google has made an arbitrary decision, not actually based on reality. If it really was trying to protect young people, I wouldn't be offered toxic videos on social media with this safety on in the settings.
scrotalsac69@reddit
Lose your smartphone, come in with an old dumbphone and ask them how to proceed
kryptonick901@reddit
this is it. Work have the right to ask. You have the right to say no. Though you should also check you haven't already agreed this in your contract.
When I rolled out MFA at work, I asked people to use their smartphones and install the authenticator app, but I had alternatives ready for those that didn't want to. Work don't have a right to your personal devices, and I wanted my MFA policy to reflect that.
scrotalsac69@reddit
I would say that mfa is a whole different category to this app, sounds like it is geotracking a part of the time tracking too. Not a chance would I let them install something like that on my phone.
NotBaldwin@reddit
I would bet it's workday.
It doesn't track all the time, but it will activate the GPS when you go to clock in to make sure that you're onsite to clock in, not at home etc.
It's still a silly technical solution to what is a human problem.
Minimum_Possibility6@reddit
We had this at an old work place. They asked us to install an app, however if you didn't you could always clock in using the display at the entrance.
However conveniently a lot of us downloaded the app but turned off location settings and then feigned in innocence nce as to why we were not logged in
kryptonick901@reddit
I agree, but regardless, as employees we should all be keeping our personal devices detached from our employers as a matter of course.
MFA is probably fine, but in my case it was a small enough company that buying some programmable OTP fobs for folks who couldn't or wouldn't use their own device wasn't going to break the bank.
Ginger_Tea@reddit
We had a usb button for certain aspects of our job when I had an office job doing 3D based data input.
RFID cards showed we were in the building by X time and log in/activities could be monitored.
Warehouse job was all about carded doorways.
If they won't supply a phone, I'm gonna get that £50 tcl from Argos for any bullshit apps.
scrotalsac69@reddit
Totally agree
VOODOO285@reddit
Same! MFA all the way on my personal phone. I have teams and outlook too, but some app that’d track me, erm no, not even if they offered to pay part of the contract. They can give me a work phone which I will only switch on at my exact start time and it’ll go off the second I finish for the day.
Some work places are bloody cheeky.
PiemasterUK@reddit
Be careful what you wish for here though. They could just give you a cheap basic smartphone to install the app on and now you have to carry two phones with you to work every day. Maybe you think this is an okay deal but personally I would rather just install the app on my personal phone and only have to carry one.
ElevatorVarious6882@reddit
No need to carry it around, just leave it on your desk with the company laptop.
Jenkes_of_Wolverton@reddit
Yep, when it became necessary for work purposes, my work supplied a phone. If you start using personal equipment for work purposes it gets very messy, the same as how they wouldn't expect you to use work equipment for personal tasks.
Pleasant-Put5305@reddit
My work gave me an iPhone when this happened, I didn't really use it, it ended up getting all squashed into a loose banana in my rucksack, never worked again...
scorzon@reddit
You literally installed Fruits Crush!!
Negative_Virus_1974@reddit
😂😂😂😂😂
ILikeItWhatIsIt_1973@reddit
That's hilarious 😂
sihasihasi@reddit
Of course you can say "no", it's your personal device.
But as you say, unless you have location services disabled on your phone, it knows where you are, anyway.
(Talking about Android, here) When you install an app, you can restrict when it's able to use your location. You can set it to "allow when using the app" or "ask every time". You may find it's easier to just install it for an easy life, and just only open the app when you're at work.
stevoknevo70@reddit
Bollocks to that, tell them to GTF and that your phone is a personal device - either they provide you with a company phone or an alternate means to clock in/out, they want this system then they provide it but it will not be going on your personal handset (conversely when I worked as a community nurse in the NHS we were strictly forbidden from using personal devices for NHS calls and a cheap shit Nokia dumbphone was provided)
sihasihasi@reddit
Yeah sure, we can all go the Reddit militant scorched-earth route. And if they really are insisting, then that may well be the route to take, just to make the point.
However, if they're just asking nicely, it may well be the simplest thing to do, especially if they can limit when the location data is collected.
stevoknevo70@reddit
They could say pretty please to me with bows on and they'd still be getting told no. My device, my rules.
sihasihasi@reddit
Good for you, champ. Do you want a star?
stevoknevo70@reddit
Do I need to download an app to receive it?
PiemasterUK@reddit
>Yeah sure, we can all go the Reddit militant scorched-earth route.
Of all the people getting all militant in this thread, I wonder how many actually would in real life if it were them making the decision rather than just roleplaying online.
AbolishIncredible@reddit
There are similar app specific privacy controls on iPhone.
sihasihasi@reddit
Yeah I wasn't suggesting there aren't, just that I didn't know how it works.
OldLondon@reddit
No you don’t have to install it unless you’ve agreed to it in your contract. I’ve dealt with this so many times with people (with me on the other side). I’ve had people say to me “I don’t have a smartphone” - while it’s literally in their hand and there’s nothing really we can do. They need to provide a non phone alternative, what if you had some kind of reasonable adjustment and couldn’t use the app. It sucks from an IT point of view but you always have to have a plan B for people who won’t, can’t or don’t want to use an app.
adreddit298@reddit
Absolutely this. "I don't care if there's no cost, I don't want to receive MFA codes via SMS, and I'm not installing the MS Authenticator app."
Fine, FIDO key it is then...
OldLondon@reddit
Yip exactly what we did. Funnily enough a fair few then went “oh I’m not using that” and used Authenticator anyway
adreddit298@reddit
Good, make them suffer with something less convenient until they see the light 🤣
Throwaway91847817@reddit
Yeah you tell them (politely) to get fucked. They have no rights over your personal property.
andrew0256@reddit
Cease taking your phone to work. If the employer wants to track you, they will have to provide the kit.
While you are at it, ask if the management are subject to the same scrutiny. Also, ask for their GDPR policy and where this fits into it. If the answers are unsatisfactory, find a new job.
Laescha@reddit
Sure. Over the years my colleagues and I have used the following responses: * I don't have a smart phone. Will the company provide me one? * I installed the app but it just doesn't work, I don't know what's wrong with it * I don't have space to install any more apps * I cancelled my data plan because I can't afford it, incidentally when are we getting a pay review?
cannontd@reddit
We got this at our place. They have cleaners who need to clean loads of rooms and they wanted to use an app that helped direct them to the best possible route but then started saying to us “unfortunately there’s a thing called data poverty”. This is apparently where people can’t afford the data on their phones. Well - pay them properly then.
Cultural-Ambition211@reddit
I’m just so inclined to help you when you’re calling people idiots..!
Also APP isn’t an acronym. It’s short for application and therefore doesn’t need to be capitalised.
adreddit298@reddit
If you read it and felt 'idiots' applied to you, then it probably does.
Cultural-Ambition211@reddit
As per OP’s criteria it does! :-)
Careless_Count7224@reddit
What? Are you saying people with smartwatches and/or Alexa are idiots?
That_Northern_bloke@reddit
Is it just a simple time stamp thing or is it more 'tracking where you are and what you do to keep tabs on anyone skiving off work?'.
Dangerous_Feed_7264@reddit (OP)
We are told it is for fire safety ( which is a way to force us to take it on) Its a geofence so it tracks us if we leave work.
widdrjb@reddit
That's bollocks. The best way to ensure fire safety is paper and pen, and make it a disciplinary matter to fail to sign in and out.
Dangerous_Feed_7264@reddit (OP)
I agree, but this would sensible ( i think it would be a stretch to achieve that way of thinking)
scrotalsac69@reddit
Yeah that isn't happening on a personal phone. I suspect your company doesn't have a privacy officer who knows what they are on about. That is a big privacy issue and could drop them in deep shit
That_Northern_bloke@reddit
Then yeah I'd be pushing back saying that if they want it they need to provide the phones, especially if it requires your location
Android_slag@reddit
Old company brought in a clocking system. When we asked how much this cost?. They're reply was "it pays for itself within six months". Think about where it gets there money from and you'll not be installing anything.
YoungGazz@reddit
https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7704512
sjw_7@reddit
I would just say no. You are not obliged to explain why if its not in your contract.
If they require you to install an app for work purposes then they need to provide you with a device to run it on. I assume they don't ask you to buy your own tools to do the job so why would this be different?
This is not the same as asking you to use your personal vehicle for work. With that they reimburse you for your milage and crucially don't make any changes to the car. They are asking you to make changes to your personal phone and offering no recompense for doing so.
When companies do this kind of thing its usually because someone high up has had what they think is a good idea to solve a problem that may not exist. They then implement a policy that they haven't thought through properly and will come back to bite them in the arse.
Worth speaking to HR because if the company starts demanding you do something they cannot make you do they are leaving themselves wide open to issues.
justbiteme2k@reddit
To those saying work should give OP a phone, OP would then no doubt ask for a contribution to his electricity costs to charge it. And then a yearly EICR to inspect his home plugs. And then reimbursement of sockets as they wear out. And the charge for his time to plug it in and out.
Sounds like OP is being awkward for the sake of it.
Jezbod@reddit
Nope, if "we" (the organisation) need the users to be contactable / perform work functions on a mobile phones, we give them a phone.
The only exception is for people who only work part time / casual, then we use other methods.
dshipp@reddit
Strong disagree. If you can optionally use your personal phone to install work things to make your life easier and blur the work/personal boundary then that’s your choice. Do it or don’t do it. No reason for them to provide a phone for that.
As soon as your work mandate you have something on your personal phone - unless explicitly required in your contract - they’ve crossed a line and penalising someone for choosing not to oblige on work use of their personal device, for whatever reason they care to, is absolutely not on. If they insist on mandating the use of the app then they need to provide an alternative for those who don’t want to use or can’t use a personal device to do it.
Massive red flag. Shitty organisation.
behemuffin@reddit
Work cannot require OP to use their own phone for work purposes. If a phone is required for work activities, work needs to provide one. OP can charge the phone at work, since it is only required for work activities and therefore only needs to be switched on during working hours.
Sounds like you enjoy the taste of boot.
woodyeaye@reddit
Or he could charge it at work and avoid all those things.
Not wanting a work app on your personal phone is a fairly common request.
Collooo@reddit
They should supply a work phone if that’s the case.
It’s really that simple.
geengab@reddit
This is one of those things where everyone else will do it and you'll just look like a troublemaker by refusing.
In my old job we used to have to use an app whrre we clocked in and out on it, it literally tracked your location. Everyone else was fine with it but I didn't like it, so I got a talking to saying it was compulsory.
Pyriel@reddit
Our company sent a memo that they were stopping paying for company mobile phone handsets, but they would still pay for the second line\SIM if our personal phones supported this.
We were up in arms about this, as most peoples phones do not support 2 SIM's\Lines, and there's no way we are using our personal numbers for work calls.
Then the issue of apps was raised, email, 2FA, Teams etc. and we were told we had to install them on our personal mobile phones.
This was unanimously rejected. The feedback we gave was that we would simply stop using these if they took out company devices away, and if it impacted our work, so be it.
The issue has seemingly gone away now.
Jezbod@reddit
Who had the "Brilliant cost saving idea" (TM), some new middle manager or some one wanting to get noticed?
They got noticed, for the wrong reason.
scorzon@reddit
Yeah it's funny how that happens isnt it - well done to you and your colleagues for taking zero shit.
It's just the same as cheeky fecker companies low balling salary offers to potential new recruits, they just do it in the hope some sap will take it. Same here, they are almost obliged to try it, they possibly fully expected the response you gave them, but if there was a small chance that you all said yes and it saves the company a lot of cash then they are certainly going to try it on, in a way can't blame them.
JohnLef@reddit
This is where I would bring out my old Nokia and ask them for a Symbian version of the app.
domjant@reddit
This is the way 😎
adreddit298@reddit
I think the answer is it depends on your contract, but probably not. Of course, refusing can make things awkward for you, but personally, this is a hill I'd die on. You might want to factor in the current employment market though, it's shite out there at the moment.
Probably the best response is that they need to provide you with a device.
You could also go down the route of asking to see DPIA, GDPR policy, attestation as to what happens with the GPS data, etc. But if they have this lined up, you'll have to pretend to be interested in it...
lurkaaa@reddit
You dont install anything on your phone that tracks you?
Your phone is tracking you without installing apps.
JakeyG14@reddit
He literally said that.
BillyJoeDubuluw@reddit
Rather than telling you whether I would or wouldn’t go along with installing the app like some comments seem to be centred on I’ll answer your question and tell you what you can do -
State that you’ve not got a smartphone (Though you’re going to have to role model that lie and not be seen with one by the way) and from there they either buy you a smartphone, in which case you’ll have to play ball, or they present an alternative clock-in…
You could, depending how far you want to go with it and how valuable the job is to you, look at raising a formal query as to why you have to install the app and dispute the installation, but I would advise you to do your homework around the legalities and weigh up the full picture/if you can afford to lose the job etc.
Fredsnotred@reddit
If work want you to use a phone related app, get them to provide the phone. And if they start demanding it be on, that's where "On Call Overtime" pay comes in - they'll soon back down
waggers5@reddit
Yes. Unless your phone is provided by your employer, it's your personal property and they can't tell you what you do with it.
If having the app (and thus a smartphone) is required to work there, they should provide it for you.
Apidium@reddit
They can force you to install an app on your work phone.
If they don't provide a work phone then they can fuck off
iamdadmin@reddit
They can ask. You’re welcome to decline without giving any reason.
“No, please provide me with an alternative business tool for clocking in and out”
Dangerous_Feed_7264@reddit (OP)
I know they will just make it more difficult for me and probably have to stay longer to clock in and out (I.e clock in and out on the computer in the office)
iamdadmin@reddit
If you want to avoid sticking out too hard on this, pop down to your local CEX and spend £30 on a old 3G only Android. Don’t put a sim in it. Ask for WiFi access and explain the only device you have available to install their app is a device that doesn’t get data signal anymore (3G networks are being decommissioned right now).
Ireallyamthisshallow@reddit
1 - factor this additional time into your working day. You don't need to use your personal time for their business requirements.
2 - log everything and anything they do to make your life difficult for not following so that when they start to sanction you, you can put forward a case if you need to.
theped26@reddit
Do that then.
Rnew1@reddit
So you factor that into your work time and leave your station earlier. I stop working at the moment I stop getting paid to work and I factor closing up shop into that time
Feeling_History8348@reddit
It was a pain going into the office to clock in and out at my old job id much rather be able to do that on an app. (I'm a lorry driver and the office was miles away from yard)
xyzsomething@reddit
They can require this but they need to provide you with a phone to do it, they cannot demand you to install any software on your personal phone
Nigelb72@reddit
Our company tried something similar, I read what access to my device the app required and instantly refused. It was scary how much data it was collecting all the time...
VerbingNoun413@reddit
How long have you worked there?
Dangerous_Feed_7264@reddit (OP)
8+ Years we never had a clock in machine as everyone does there job
Mysterious_Use4478@reddit
A smart watch is just as much an ankle tag as a smart phone is.
justbiteme2k@reddit
I really don't see the problem, it's not harming me and is likely to make my life easier.
If you say no, they'll likely require you to go to some location on site and clock in manually, which could waste more of your time.
Another advantage they're offering you is that if you took the app onto your phone, you could then spoof your GPS location and clock in/out from home!
motific@reddit
You can say no, it is your phone. If they want to supply a phone then you can turn it off when you are not working.
If they sack you or make it more difficult for you to do your work then that's a slam dunk unfair dismissal case and there are precedents covering it at employment tribunal (see: Alsnih v Al Quds Al-Arabi Publishing & Advertising).
theabominablewonder@reddit
But a cheap smartphone and leave it plugged in at work in a locked drawer.
Dangerous_Feed_7264@reddit (OP)
Yes i have though this already and have a spare old phone which i could do this on but what a pain having to double phone. I just want to come to work do my job and go home. Why all these Apps!
bouncer-1@reddit
What app is it, and take your tin foil hat off
ukbot-nicolabot@reddit
A top level comment (one that is not a reply) should be a good faith and genuine attempt to answer the question
PeppercornWizard@reddit
This really isn’t tinfoil hat stuff; it’s overreach by an employer to expect them to install software on personal devices that aren’t provided by the company.
Graz279@reddit
Some time back my company wanted us to install the Microsoft Authenticator to log into out work PCs, personally I don't have problem with it, I know what it does and it helps to make our network more secure by providing 2-factor authentication. But there was inevitable push back for this reason so they had to offer the option of using a physical electronic token device as well.
For anything that wanted to track me, even if it was just for movement in and out of the office I'd say no unless it was on a work supplied device.
Just tell them you don't have a smart phone due to social media addiction issues 😁
mas-sive@reddit
Ask for a work phone
That-Public-3183@reddit
you can push back and ask for a work device, lots of places provide a separate phone if they need tracking apps installed
Any-Class-2673@reddit
Did you know that reddit is also collecting information about you? Maybe you should just get rid of your phone completely 🤔
scrotalsac69@reddit
What does that have to do with anything? Using reddit is a personal choice, a company mandating tracking on your phone is not a personal choice
JGlover92@reddit
There's a big difference between a huge corporation (all of whom are doing this) and your employer in terms of actual consequences though
AnonymousTimewaster@reddit
Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but.
Better posting on r/LegalAdviceUK
West_Yorkshire@reddit
Ask them to provide you with a phone
axelzr@reddit
Ask them to provide a work phone for the app if they insist. I would refuse to put on my own personal phone if were me.
Automatic_Screen1064@reddit
I dont have a phone, if you provide me one i will install your app, then leave it plugged in at desk
ProjektRarebreed@reddit
Bet you bought your phone before you went soecsavers. PUT THE PHONE DOWN, TOUCH SOME GRASS.
scrotalsac69@reddit
Are you having some sort of episode?
Chewbakka-Wakka@reddit
Say Yes and you will - on a company issued phone.
BelstaffBoy@reddit
Ask if they're going to provide a work phone to install this app and if they say no then you have the right to not use it, in my opinion.
Sudden_Resource7014@reddit
I'd be happy to install an app providing they're happy to provide a phone.
My personal phone is just that - If they want me to install an app to clock in and out, this is now a work phone and they'll need to provide one as such.
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