Small nitpick/correction on Ian's Larry Thorne video
Posted by krairsoftnoob@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 28 comments
https://youtu.be/B2LZJ3BhqJo?si=3F0-GwulG_yILVK2
So in Lauri Torni video, Ian addresses Lauri as "part of German Army".
Lauri was vounteered to Waffen SS, and Waffen SS was not really part of German Army, or under command of OKH(Oberkommando des Heeres).
German army commanders could order Waffen SS units in tactical/battlefield level, but ultimate control and authority over Waffen SS(or any SS groups) was under separate line of command that goes to SS Oberst Gruppenfuhrer Dietrich, Reichfuhrer Himmler, and ultimately Adolf Hitler himself.
This was why SS was wiped out from German Government military record post-WW2. SS was never a part of German Army, or military organisation, but a private military group fielded by Nazi party.
I am not super expert(like doctorate-level expert) on this matter so if anyone want to correct/criticise my take, feel free to do so.
KoolBleach@reddit
All of the Larry Thorne stuff is kind of tone deaf to me because he joined the Waffen-SS not just the army. It’s subtle revisions to history that are dangerous.
krairsoftnoob@reddit (OP)
He couldn't have joined German army as a foreigner(simmilar in a way you can't volunteer to U.S. military as a foreigner apart from exceptions like MAVNI program). SS was probably his only chance because as a paramilitary of Nazi party, they were more "open" to international individuals joining.
walt-and-co@reddit
Even so, it’s telling that he actively chose to join the explicitly Nazi-aligned political paramilitary force.
I completely agree with u/KoolBleach that this focus on him is in extremely poor taste.
krairsoftnoob@reddit (OP)
I agree on your criticism. It is weird how they kinda glance over the SS stuff with "no biggie" attitude in the video.
At least they could've said stuff like "This is for pure historical research purpose and our discussion on his actions does not mean we condone the warcrimes of Nazi Government during WW2."
Dark__DMoney@reddit
Tbh I think the fact his country had just fought a brutal war of existence against Russia makes his decision murky. He probably just wanted to keep fighting the Russians more than he cared about Nazi ideology. The SS also recruited Danes, Albanians, Ukranians, Serbs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Turkmen, Hungarians, the Dutch, Walloons, Bosnians, Belarussians, to it's foreign groups, basically anyone who had a bone to pick with Russians. The only foreign group under the OKH was a Spanish Division sent as goodwill by way of Franco.
Friendly_Hornet8900@reddit
Can you even say Nazi on YT now?
hoopharted@reddit
liberals do it evey minute of every day
asiatische_wokeria@reddit
His gov allowed the men to join:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_volunteers_in_the_Waffen-SS
They could also have build-up a Wehrmacht unit. Indian Legion for example was Wehrmacht. But I guess they wanted the Finns into Waffen-SS because they had the so called Greater-German Corps which consisted of Freikorps Denmark and Freikorps Norge, units from other northern States, which were considered as Germanic.
rankaistu_ilmalaiva@reddit
I also have a small nitpick in that how do you make a whole thing about him being a ”soldier of three armies” and have all the merch just show two?
Friendly_Hornet8900@reddit
SS is not marketable enough i guess.
I guess it would be the Azov book debacle all over again.
Clay-mo@reddit
I'm glad someone else remembers the Ukraine book, I'm still kinda pissed I couldn't buy it tbh. If only he had waited another year.
Prince_of_Kyrgyzstan@reddit
Because it would make idiots mad if you had them represented. Well, not including them already made Karl Kasarda buttmad so whatever you do, people be real ornery about it.
rankaistu_ilmalaiva@reddit
Oh yeah people get mad for some reason when you parade around in a swastika. Whatever could that reason be.
Prince_of_Kyrgyzstan@reddit
Of course there’s the business reason to not include SS on the merch, that's illegal in several places. Very easy to see why that isn't on the merch itself.
But there’s difference in getting mad due to not including SS when it comes to Törni, or getting mad about just talking about Törni in the first place, because you aren’t expressly making a big point about his sketchy SS time in -45. And it is pretty clear that there’s a corner of folk who aren't happy in any case, to them the winning point is when Törni is not celebrated or even talked about.
And that is where I will draw my line. Those people are not serious people and shouldn't be catered to. Let them be buttmad and laughed at, while Ian, Varusteleka and friends just sell their merch and go on with their lives.
rankaistu_ilmalaiva@reddit
Yes, I am one of those people who thinks a two times over volunteer for the SS and someone who went on to wage (and thankfully die in) America’s colonial war in Vietnam isn’t someone who should be celebrated.
And if he was such a genius and great figher, why did he lose three times?
Friendly_Hornet8900@reddit
I mean he was not a one-man army obviously.
Prince_of_Kyrgyzstan@reddit
Oh internet tough guy over here, real original. Go and be buttmad and join those who can be safely disregarded.
rankaistu_ilmalaiva@reddit
Calling people ”internet tough guys” while saying people are ”buttmad” for not liking nazi whitewashing.
mur-diddly-urderer@reddit
Wow, I can’t believe people would raise their eyebrows at merch with SS runes on it. That’s so weird. Couldn’t possibly imagine why that is.
asiatische_wokeria@reddit
Don't know what wiped out is, but the HIAG was huge in the early FGR, also when it comes to a group of voters in politics. So they fought for the same retirement funds the Wehrmacht men received and a "rehabilitation" and succeeded.
Early Bundeswehr had some ties to them, like Honor guards going to funerals of higher Waffen-SS Führer, meetings and stuff. With the Press jumping on the "Nazis are regrouping" bandwagon in the late 60s, this more and more faded out, politics really starting to distance from the HIAG starting in the 80s, when the group of voters getting smaller.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIAG
krairsoftnoob@reddit (OP)
I used the term "wiped out" as German government not acknowleding their service/distinguished status such as medals. Sorry for using confusing terms.
asiatische_wokeria@reddit
This is not true when it comes to the pension, like I pointed out, and also not for (most of) the medalls.
For the awards there was a law in 1957, so they could be worn in a version without the swastika in the FGR. This was about almost all combat or army awards, not including party awards, for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordensgesetz
Even the anti-partisan badge (considered a Waffen-SS awards, but also some minor Wehrmacht received it. Also considered more a war crime badge.) had a 57er version, without the swastika. The SS Long Service Award was banned for wear in the FGR.
Lot of Bundeswehr men wearing 57er awards in (official) pictures during their service in Bundeswehr uniform. There is a whole topic about this at WAF with thousands of pitures.
mur-diddly-urderer@reddit
If you’re asking what wiped out in that context means the OP is saying the German Government erased the SS records from their military records.
asiatische_wokeria@reddit
But what dos this mean? In what context? Source?
No Waffen-SS in den Bundeswehr? No.
https://de.quora.com/Wie-viele-ehemalige-Wehrmachts-und-SS-Mitglieder-sind-der-Bundeswehr-beigetreten
Also from the above, the Bundeswehr and the FGR, for sure knew who was in the Waffen-SS and his rank, so they had his "record". There was nothing erased.
mur-diddly-urderer@reddit
Oh I wasn’t commenting on whether or not it’s true. I’ll defer to you on that.
asiatische_wokeria@reddit
Ah ok, thanks for clarifying its likely about the service records, indeed did not get this.
Adventurous_Tea_2198@reddit
Reminds me of when people say 14 Waffen SS “Galizien” (the antagonists of the Belarusian film “Come and See”) weren’t real SS because their politics prohibits them from acknowledging that fact.
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