The fall of the United States

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

We don’t know where is a good place to move to. The world’s entire climate is shifting.

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The collapse of the United States is mimicking the collapse of the Soviet Union. I always figured it would happen that way, years of political unrest, coupled with less wars, and trillions of debt. It was only a matter of time before things would inevitably hit the wall. The question we need to ask ourselves is yes it’s going to collapse, but what happens after the collapse where do we go and what do we do?

It’s something that everyone’s gonna have to think about in terms of jobs assets and whatever else may have you. It could lead to a full revolution in this country which we’ve been overdue for, or another first world, power invade, and conquer us. Personally, I’m thinking that the United States will dissolve in split into different regions that would probably war with one another over goods and products and what not.

Something I’ve always wondered is during and post collapse what happens to people’s debt? Whether it’s credit card debt or school debt loans whatever might be where does all that go if our political system in banking system is uprooted

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

I, too, think we will split into smaller countries by region. And I’m stuck in Florida - sigh . . .

As regards debt: That is a fascinating question. I don’t know. What about bank accounts? I get paper statements every month just in case the bank gets cyber-attacked and I have to prove I have savings. But if the banking system flops - obviously I need to think about this idea. Thanks!

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Depends_on_theday@reddit

Hi from Florida we can share fruit n veggies

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

The plant I’ve been most successful with is pigeon peas. They are a perennial legume here in polk county. Here’s an article about them from the UF (I’m a Master Gardener.)

EDIS.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP622

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Depends_on_theday@reddit

Thanks! I realise I offered to share fruit and vegetables and yet have not been successful with one single plant. We’re hoping to try a raised bed this winter.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

I recommend contacting your local extension. They might even have classes! I’ve also been pretty successful with mustard greens.

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If Gore won 2000 he would have lost 2004 brutally. I doubt Gore would have stopped 9/11 and that would mean both the Oklahoma city bombing and 9/11 would have happen under the same Democratic administration. With the exception of FDR no party has had control of president for more that four terms.

The turning point I have, what if Ron Paul won the 2012 Republican primary.

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livlaffluv420@reddit

It was when they killed JFK.

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UmmUhhhShit@reddit

I would probably say it was sometime in the late 60s to early 70s, there’s a really interesting YouTube video that talks about 1971. The rise of newt Gingrich in the 70s, roger ailes, the southern strategy, basically the consolidation of the religious extremists into one of the political parties who are voting as a bloc based on religious belief instead of political principles happened around then.

https://youtu.be/HchNA3a9L5E

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Waste_Recognition184@reddit

Who created this garbage? The ADL or the SPLC?

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PTSDeedee@reddit

Goliath by Matt Stoller also outlines how this was a time when politics shifted and democrats began allowing monopolies to flourish.

I think the bigger issue is that we let confederate leaders / former slave owners keep their power after the civil war. There should have been Nuremberg-type trials with death and life sentences. Instead, they kept their money and influence, and their descendants have used that power for evil too.

These are people who've successfully convinced themselves that their efforts are actually worth 1000x + the salary of one of their employees. They think theyre so smart and special that they'll be the ones to rise above the turmoil

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SqurrrlMarch@reddit

I reckon they're so sociopathic they don't care once they're in their bunkers and have control of every possible resource there may be left. Mass attrition of the population is part of the collapse. I reckon the death and immediate catastrophes people will have to deal with will outweigh the "chaos" you think is detrimental to power. That's not how narcissistic abuse/power works. It feeds on chaos.

Status quo is the best tool for democratic republics, not fascist regimes.

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MistyMtn421@reddit

I can't remember if it was Miller or a p2025 reference, but their goal is to have no more then 100 million people in the states. They want to eliminate over 2/3 of the population.

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nahivibes@reddit

Then wtf why’d they restrict abortion.

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roytay@reddit

They're the dog that caught the car on abortion. Besides the basic desire to control women, it was a great tool to divide us.

Here it is from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jun/15/trump-immigration-stephen-miller-influence

“…the president told a campaign meeting last year that if it was up to Miller, there would only be 100 million people living in the US – and all of them would look like Miller.”

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SqurrrlMarch@reddit

oh good.

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spicy_noodle_guy@reddit

This is one of the great failures that society has made when trying to stop these people. They don't care, because they are mentally ill. You don't do what these people do and have a sane mind. We let the sickest of us take control of and mold the world into the shape that makes the most sense to them. You need only look around to see that the shape is far from one that even the most selfish or greedy could have conjured. The world we live in could only have been forged in the minds of the ill.

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americend@reddit

They aren't controlling what's happening. They are benefiting, but not directing. No one is steering the ship.

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LifeClassic2286@reddit

They are unable to think that far ahead. Wealth warps their minds and they lose perspective and empathy. This has been scientifically studied - there are physical brain changes that occur with high levels of wealth.

That's accurate, however I believe he's mentioned it's going on for years in other videos.

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archontwo@reddit

Well, to be honest I only watched the video shared and it seemed to meche was very much framing it as a 'now' problem. It is not.

If he does, indeed go back decades and exposed the rot of politic by money and lobbying as well as a perverse ideology that gives rise to American exceptionlism and hubris that gives it the self appointed right to be 'The policemen of the world39, then I guess he knows his stuff.

But this shared video did not impress me much, is all I can say.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Thank you!

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WontLieToYou@reddit

Your comment reminds me of an article I read years ago that I think of often, as it becomes more and more relevant. The author was explaining how his American friends don't understand Democratic collapse the way others who lived through it do. The Americans keep saying stuff like "our Constitution protects..." or "that would be illegal here because..." The people who lived through it kept trying to explain that tyrants do not care what is legal. They will just do whatever they want. Laws are whatever those in power say they are.

As an American, I no longer feel I need this explained to me.

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alibythesea@reddit

I’m still seeing that all over social media! Guess what, people, Trump and his minions/handlers don’t give a damn if something is illegal. They will do it anyway, and even if in the end, the Supreme Court rules against the more egregious moves into dictatorship, they still will not care. Who is going to stop them? Barring a military coup, who can stop them?

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!remindme two days Link to the video please?

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ri1357@reddit

Quality of life in America has always declined every year but it’s speeding up now. I think it’s going to be bad very soon

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Alena_Tensor@reddit

Sorry didn’t mean to imply Powell was from that time - My statement contained several items, mentioned Powell and then went on to talk about the genesis of his the movement

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HowRu_123@reddit

The US collapsed in 2008.

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StealthFocus@reddit

💯 I knew it was important as we went through it but nearly 20 years later you can see how it opened the floodgates to where we are.

That Obama allowed it all to slide after being elected to clean house was such an unforced error and something I’ll never forgive him.

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Depends_on_theday@reddit

If u don’t mind, in simple terms, how did Obama contribute. I’m politically homeless cuz it’s too much info and I have schoolwork due kids to feed diapers to change and a job to clock into so I just get lost in the sauce trying to figure it all out.

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StealthFocus@reddit

His refusal to prosecute anyone who participated in the crimes. He took a lot of Wall St money for his campaigns and instead of cleaning house he let things fester and they got worse. Trump came about directly as a result of Obamas policies, I don’t recall the percent without looking it up but there’s a substantial overlap of voters between the two. People disillusioned with the system. It’s also sick that they’re now trying to whitewash Bush legacy through his autistic paintings as if he’s some grandfatherly figure and not a bloodthirsty war criminal. And worst of all the fucking Chaneys.

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Depends_on_theday@reddit

Really interesting and I’m one of the disillusioned. Thx for your comment

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Wide-Chart-7591@reddit

Depends_on_theday@reddit

What does a civil war look like to you? I still suck at gardening. Have a bunch of kids to feed and own no guns or ammo. I’m just A regular regular nurse trying to keep my family afloat. 45 min from trumps house.

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Logical-Race8871@reddit

I think we're more likely headed for a "Years of Lead" situation than a civil war.

Americans are in a strange limbo of not really supporting either party all that much, and people's politics are all over the place and full of contradiction.

Americans belief that violence may be necessary to right the ship is growing, but the number of people who truly want civil war are less than 10%.

Liberals are still very anti-violence (outside of the police and foreign policy). They don't see it as a viable solution to problems between white people, and are 100% all in on electoralism for now.

Finally, I just don't see an issue that there is an actual clear divide on, like there was with abolition and slavery, and that took 15 years of bleeding-kansas style brewing violence and an difference in economic organization between entire regions of the country and world.

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Waste_Recognition184@reddit

Left-wingers are very pro-violence, pro-terrorism - always have been

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Ancient-Practice-431@reddit

That's what I think, no big bang but an inevitable slow drop off of a cliff.

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Waste_Recognition184@reddit

Thomas Chittum wrote the novel Civil War 2: the coming break-up of America, predicted the civil war outbreak would start in Los Angeles in 2021. Well it didn't happen

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No-Insurance100@reddit

There won't be a civil war unless there is division among the elites leading to a split within the military/security forces. The American military has only shown their complete compliance with following orders like the good little robots they are. But that should not be surprising to any observer after the American military did one atrocity after another abroad for decades without notable dissent.

There could be low-intensity prolonged political violence by non-state actors (arguably there already is in the USA) but that's not a civil war.

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BenUFOs_Mum@reddit

There won't be a civil war unless there is division among the elites leading to a split within the military/security forces.

You dont need that for a civil war.

But that should not be surprising to any observer after the American military did one atrocity after another abroad for decades without notable dissent.

Thats in a foriegn war, its very different asking the army to go into a US city or town and do those kinds of things. Most will do it of course but you can expect to see significant

There could be low-intensity prolonged political violence by non-state actors (arguably there already is in the USA) but that's not a civil war.

You say that but eventually the intensity goes over an arbitrary threshold into civil war. The Troubles in Northern Ireland killed 3500 people in a country of less than 2 million. Scale that to the US population and you could be talking about half a million people dead in 30-40 years due to "low intensity violence"

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truthful32@reddit

I don’t think so, I think discontent is so high with Americans and they so hate each other now that it will be a war between left vs right and the federal government now will disintegrate under this crisis.

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Perhaps. Although, by "Civil War" you probably need to consider something different, a 21st century type of violence. And it's already here, LA, DC, Portland, Chicago...

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ericvulgaris@reddit

how democracies die came out in 2018, 2 years into trump's first presidency by a pair of harvard professors.
it looks at cases across the world where democratic countries backslide and how/why. Then they apply that to the US. I strongly suggest you check it out.

It isn't just a few men. It's not even a recent thing. This is the culmination. It's a concerted effort going back the last US political realignment in the 60s from civil rights legislation.

Sorry for your loss man. He clearly had a great life and meant alot to others, and that is truly a gift.

And yes man, Im only pushing 40 and have seen this political and media deterioration roll out in real time since I was a kid.

Its crazy to think that fascism and authoritarian rollout can actually happen in a blink of an eye, really.

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Collapse2043@reddit

Ah thanks. He was really my brother’s friend but he was hanging around our house since we were kids. He was a member of the Young Conservatives since his teens. A news report says he got involved in politics in University, I thought nope, it was before that, but whatever. I’ve always thought Canadian conservatives were a bit misguided but at least they are not crazy like the Republicans. They are more like the Democrats really and I have a few Conservative friends. As a teen he said he wanted to be PrimeMinister but in his twenties he said he realized the real power was working in the Prime Minister’s office not being Prime Minister and he ended up doing just that by his forties. In fact, he always did everything he set out to do, such a bright, talented guy and very successful. I bet he left a fortune to his mom and sisters. He never married or had kids.

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LOGOisEGO@reddit

I really dont want to be the person to have to explain how Canadian conservatism has actually been rocket fuel on the last 20 years especially.

And I dont fault the realtor for selling the house or the car guy selling that finance too. We all had our job. And hey, this is a discussion forum, I invite you to add in anything you like or if youre curious of the tangents of the conversation.

Alena_Tensor@reddit

Actually prior to that, the Powell Memorandum. You must remember that this conservative movement to take over the machinery of government started back in the guilded age, was derailed by the wars and Roosevelt, and came back with a vengeance as they saw Jim Crow laws being dismantled and equal opportunity laws being enacted. With the growth of social benefits programs that tipped it completely off the scale as far as they were concerned and it was war after that. They started their behind the scenes work in high gear to besmirch and discourage democratic candidates, elevate republican candidates and pick conservative judges.

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AdEven7883@reddit

The Powell Memo is from the 70s, not the gilded age, just for historical accuracy. Look it up, it's chilling and underscores how limp and useless the Democrats have been.

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AdEven7883@reddit

It's easy to blame Fox News but they just tell people what they want to hear. I have MAGA relatives and they have always been racist, long before Fox News. The real cancer in our society is all the hate that has been normalized. Fox News didn't help and the relatively restrained media we used to have was a lot better, but don't forget there has to be an audience for a Fox News to succeed.

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AkitaNo1@reddit

I blame the polarization of politics and the mainstream media. Plenty of other channels doing the same shit over the years just instead for the donkey instead of the elephant. Its so silly. Also creating a dichotomy at all. Asinine. There are more than 2 points of view. And definitely more than 2 choices. But they dont want you to believe that. Hence all the bullshit, chaos, strife, and distractions. They are 2 sides of the same coin. And thats why shit never changes. It only gets worse. Its by design.

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Disastrous-Ad-2458@reddit

I know it's cliche, but dark Knight hits a lot different now.

I understand that Nolan was making a bigger point with joker- the natural human life is "nasty, brutish and short" because we are monkeys who want to kill each other for stupid reasons.

We have only advanced as a society because we've suppressed those urges with norms, laws, and the power of the state. But all it takes is a little push for all of that to come down. Just pull on that string and we're back to the hominids at the beginning of 2001.

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youcantkillanidea@reddit

Seems like a little push. Plus 30 years of undermining society via FOX News and defunding the education system

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Subway@reddit

Yes, can recommend, as well. Another good read: How Fascism Works, The Politics of Us and Them by Jason Stanley.

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SimpleAsEndOf@reddit

And here's the really bad news from front page of Reddit today:

This order NSPM 7 drafted by Stephen Miller and signed by Trump, gives the government the ability to go after, target, and arrest virtually anyone now.

https://v.redd.it/upzzkqqta4tf1

It's important that you watch this and spread the news, please!

This is the moment Trump went Full Nazi!

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desertgirl27@reddit

This is fucking terrifying!

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SimpleAsEndOf@reddit

It’s a surveillance directive akin to COINTELPRO, but with the trappings of the McCarthy era red scare, surveilling people who are deemed anti American, anti capitalist , anti Trump and anti Christian. I guarantee the average Trump voter is totally unaware of its existence. Their right wing media will make zero mention of it.

Tomorrow, it will be linked with ICE or immigration.....

and then they will be using Palantir for this.

Group hug!

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ElegantDaemon@reddit

Think of all your social media posts over the last year. Their AIs will be pouring over them and the logs from ISPs. They're building lists already.

None of us are safe.

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Tasty-Property-434@reddit

First they came for Diablo Sauce and I said nothing.

#weknow

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BayouGal@reddit

Think of all your posts ever. The internet hasn’t forgotten.

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AlwaysShittyKnsasCty@reddit

Jokes on them. I have nothing to lose! It is they who have all the “things.”

NSPM-7, an executive order creates a legal framework to investigate and prosecute people for "domestic terrorism" using definitions so broad they could apply to almost any political opposition or protest activity.

If you criticize capitalism, support LGBTQ+ rights, advocate for immigration reform, or call out authoritarian behavior, you could be labeled a domestic terrorist.
They can investigate you for talking about ideas they don't like, before any violence occurs. Organizing a protest? That could be "radicalization."
Any non-profit, charity, or organization they dislike can lose tax-exempt status. They can freeze bank accounts. They can investigate anyone who donates to causes they oppose.
If you work for, donate to, or are associated with any organization they target, you can be investigated. This is classic guilt-by-association.
Universities teaching critical theory, climate science, or anything they disagree with could be targeted.
Protesting that blocks traffic? Civil disorder. Occupying a building? Trespass and domestic terrorism. Sharing information about public officials? Potential doxing.

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Away-Map-8428@reddit

Not an executive order

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Collapse2043@reddit

Good thing I’m in Canada because I’m all those things. 😬

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verdasuno@reddit

If you are in Canada, DON'T GO TO THE USA.

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thekbob@reddit

I had to stop reading it.

It was just prescient and depressing.

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comewhatmay_hem@reddit

There's been a few books lately I could not finish because they were predicting the future we live in right now, except they were warning us about worst case scenarios and trying to give solutions.

Reading about how predictions of "worst case scenarios" have not only come true, but have exceeded the at-the-time predicted level of collapse and dysfunction is pure suicide fuel.

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ParisShades@reddit

Could you share some of those books, please? I would like to read them. I have a strong stomach.

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SeattleSundries@reddit

I’d add the book The Fourth Turning is Here by Neil Howe. It explains a historical theory of generational cycles that culminate in a crisis era (where we are now), before moving into a time of rebirth. I’ve found it both terrifying and reassuring.

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comewhatmay_hem@reddit

No Logo by Naomi Klein was the worst for me in this regard, because I lived in Toronto at the time and she was describing the neighborhood I worked in in the first chapter. Hearing about what it used to be like compared to what it is now made me feel sick.

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Watusi_Muchacho@reddit

I don't agree, and to think so is dis-empowering.

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Meat_Assassin69@reddit

I don’t think it’s disempowered to confront the truths of oppression and the power structure in which we live.

And shame on you, for saying people fleeing persecution have no place in Canada - historically, that has never been the attitude of the conscientious people living there.

Love your neighbor.

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Collapse2043@reddit

Lol, with 800, 000 immigrants per year from all over the world I don’t think some Americans will change Canada that much.

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jedrider@reddit

Yeah and we're using your nation as a blueprint to follow towards collapse.

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CatchaRainbow@reddit

What the UK? It's bad, but not Fascist bad.

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BlueAndYellowTowels@reddit

I think we are in uncharted territory. While a lot of elements seem to “rhyme” there is one thing that stands out as completely different: social media and Big Tech.

The biggest challenge of any authoritarian regime previously is scale. You can’t watch and control everyone.

However, with BigTech snd AI. We are looking at a whole new level of ability of governments and corporations to watch, track and propagandize people.

We are in completely new territory.

…and American Big Tech is poised to control the world. After the TikTok deal, every single large social media platform is now of propaganda arm of this fascist regime. We have never seen this scale and sophistication.

We have to hope things break before those systems come into full effect. Because if they don’t, we are truly screwed.

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crispyraven7@reddit

Speaking of government propaganda, this week I was flying home from Albany. In the security line, there was a TV repeating a message from the ghoul named Noem stating that there could be delays because of the Democrats failure to fund the government. It feels surreal to me that there are people willing to swallow this absolute garbage. It's an insult to the intelligence of the American people, a majority of whom are not part of the MAGA cult.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Okay, they can control what people think/say, but they can’t control if the weather destroys crops. They can’t control sea level rise destroying property values. They can’t control floods, or internal immigration.

It’s funny, isn't it?

We’ve never had more information floating around than right now, & yet we have never been more dumb, unable to focus as a species.

I don’t think human brains were built to process this much data & stimulation.

We have all the knowledge we need to make the changes we must, but it is being drowned out by white noise.

We are a terminally distracted society, totally missing the forest for the trees when it comes to preventing, avoiding or at the very least mitigating the possibility of impending self extinction.

So it goes…

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BlueAndYellowTowels@reddit

I do think there’s a nugget of truth to this. I do wonder if our evolution prepared us for the sorts of problems we have.

Humans are sort of designed to be tribal. We can only maintain so many relationships and do have like a hard limit of how many people we can know.

I do think we just aren’t intelligent or wise enough to comprehend things like Climate Change. It’s just so bit and massive and there’s so many interlocking systems. The complexity is far beyond what even the brightest of us can properly understand.

I think about that and I also think about Progress Traps. I stumbled across the idea like a decade ago and it’s never really left me.

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question_sunshine@reddit

I'm not convinced the anti-mask or anti-vax thing was originally intentional. The backlash to Trump initially taking the pandemic seriously (while spreading misinformation out of stupidity) was intense. I think his team realized they couldn't fully control the monster they had created and went with it rather than lose the support of his base.

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Veronw_DS@reddit

I too have been calling it a Dark Age for a hot minute. Now it's becoming so obvious that it's impossible to ignore. Nice to see someone else call it out.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Good point about the masks. I hadn’t thought of that example. I also don’t know very much about phones, obviously!

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Cultural-Answer-321@reddit

They can’t control sea level rise destroying property values. They can’t control floods, or internal immigration.

This. They CANNOT control the forces of nature that are coming to destroy everything. Including them.

And it's all self inflicted.

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GovernmentOpening254@reddit

Food price increases will only exacerbate minorities (immigrants, homosexuals, etc.) getting abused and blamed for all the ills in the simpleton’s minds.

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monkeybeast55@reddit

Anyone who says anything but "uncharted" doesn't know anything. There has never been a time even close to this in all of history. People who talk about "revolution" are nuts and contributing to all the insanity. Just buckle up, and do your best to do something constructive that genuinely helps.

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PTSDeedee@reddit

u/traditional_way1052 shared this video from a resistance historian in a comment above who basically says the same thing:

https://youtu.be/x1btBm-081A?si=p90FShQOR82_XcgQ

The military will split slightly or greatly, and some may refuse orders. They didn't call the Generals up for nothing. It was the warning to follow orders or they will be rapidly replaced, and that's already underway. It won't matter if some of the military members refuse orders. They are actively and intentionally bankrupting and starving Americans, the value of the dollar has dropped nearly 11% since the start of the year, that's the largest drop since 1973. They have plenty of people not just wanting, but in needing of the promise of that ICE bonus. By the end of the year the agents that stayed will be too deep that the bonus won't even matter, they will be believe the violence is real because they are on the receiving end of it. They will stay to "protect the nation".

Economically we have reach pre-Great Recession levels and much worse. The credit defaults are underway, WIC will run out of money shortly. The Bureau of Labor and Statistics refused to release their recent economic report and won't make the new deadline of October 30th if the government stays shut down. If you haven't figured it out yet, they have no intention of opening it back up again, and may even work to deliberately sabotage the reopening; assassinations are very much on the menu now.

This is how it happens. There is no going back from this point. No boycott will stop the oligarchs with savings equivalent to the GDPs of multiple nations combined. No peaceful protest, intimidating screaming, or "recording for evidence" will stop them. No voting in a midterm. No court ruling. No Epstien files. No Black Outs. No impeachment with Congress shuttered. Everything, no matter how much it seems like he is losing in courts, has been accounted for, and the Shadow Docket has given them what they need while the rest are tied up in court filing lawsuits thinking that if they win there it that will buy us time. It won't.

This. Is. War. And wars are only won one way. Of you think I'm wrong look up pre-civil war indicators, use whatever source you like. We have met all conditions.

I'm not a religious or spiritual person, but in my own way I pray you will all be safe. Prepare and get a plan in order for your families, reinforce your front doors, get armed and keep your weapons secure as responsible owners, save enough food to cover you for at least 72 hours with the power off, and have a go bag of essentials ready incase you need to leave your home temporarily or permanently. I'm not a preper myself, but it's time. Because it's here, and this is happening. Be safe everyone.

I don't care if anyone thinks I'm crazy, fear mongering, etc. I essentially don't even use Reddit and practically never comment. This is for the people that are like me. The ones that have been observing this go down and actually had the time to follow everything and form as best of their own opinion as possible; not all of us are in financial position, have regional proximity, or even agree with what our level of engagement on this matter should to do more than observe. If you take issue with that, you're barking up the wrong tree if your looking for a fight/debate/to rally those who haven't moved yet, it doesn't mean they haven't chosen a side, and it doesn't mean they don't want to get involved.

This message isn't for you, it is for the observers. The ones that don't comment but have put a lot of the same pieces together, and have for some reason become obsessed with studying and overlaying world history to just understand what is happening. Just know you aren't crazy. And you can prepare a plan of action and defense without getting anyone to agree with your take. And you don't have to obsess about it, but don't you dare take your eyes off of what is happening. Every new piece of information is critical, and if you are like me you already have mental tools in place to deal with the onslaught of information, misinformation, and disinformation as best as possible. Do not look away, do not waste energy trying to explain what you are seeing. Prepare for those that will rely on your accumulated knowledge and will need you, do not obsess and burn out. Moderate and pace yourself as you always have. Just get ready for your family and friends, they don't need to be convinced, just get ready.

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Miserable_Chapter252@reddit

I expect nationwide shift and full panic mode if that judge is a arrested.

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temp_woowoo@reddit

Do a search for "judges arrested" in Google. They have already been arresting judges.

We have now met 9 out of 10 major civil war indicators. Only 10% of nations have ever turned back once they met 8 of these conditions, and they ALL had Nelson Mandela diplomacy and leadership. The other 90% collapse within months to a year. We will not be among the 10%. Prepare yourselves.

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deadface008@reddit

Do you think Trump could have successfully taken over the most powerful country in the world by himself? Ofc not. He pretends to be dumb, but he does his research and is copying old empirical strategies play-by-play. It's amazing that people don't see the 1⋮1 parallels. That said, I don't think America is collapsing. At least, not alone. Most of the world is pissed and hungry right now. We're going to see a lot more than the US evolve from this.

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EarthKnit@reddit

He’s dumb. He doesn’t have smarts.

What he does have is narcissism and greed.

He combined them with power that others have and are using him for.

This country isn’t controlled by Trump— it’s controlled by the smart people who are using Trump as their charismatic leader: Voght, Musk, Miller, Thiel… the list goes on. These smart people took another lack-wit, Vance, to be the running mate because Trump is going die. Soon. And the smart people who now worked the entire economic, governmental, judicial, and military complex will use him as their next shill face of leadership.

It's propped up by the AI bubble and inflation. Growth is slowing and we're bleeding jobs, notably including loads of government positions that were cut for no good reason.

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Bman409@reddit

"Growth is slowing" is a long way from "a collapse is imminent "

That’s really what it seems like, doesn’t it? I suppose they think they are so rich that they think they won’t suffer?

I think something else that surprises me is that there are so many American men who are happy to be part of ICE. It’s a pity that the National Guard and our military, who are good people, are being sucked into this.

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Old-Journalist9247@reddit

Go watch this like actually watch it before you think decide what exactly is leading us to this fall... https://youtu.be/bX3EZCVj2XA?si=yspxNfVPJtAIM3B1

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Thanks, I will.

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espomar@reddit

Gorbachev did not lead the USSR into dissolution, he just happened to be there when the economic clock ran out on the Soviets. However much current Putinist Russians want to blame Gorbachev for the USSR’s woes, he did not create them.

On the other hand, Trump definitely is playing a role in the collapse of the United States.

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No_Note_597@reddit

Trump was not there when USA was in 17 trillion debt.

I am not MAGA, I am not even white, never been to USA

the end to printing dollar is near, I want to badly pivot away from American clients I have. Soon I will.

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-SnarkBlac-@reddit

I wouldn’t say it is collapsing, collapse implies there will be nothing left when it’s over. I disagree. In 100 years there will still the a United States. However what kind of United States that is will certainly be different. We are in the midst of a transformation to which the end result is still very unclear.

DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

I’ve been thinking about your comment (check out the comment below in this chain if you are interested), and I’m not sure I agree with you about a complete collapse not having occurred very often.

On the one hand, a complete collapse, which I might define as all the people dying, which is not a takeover by a non-local gang of humans, would not necessarily make it into history. I recently read an article about the number of times Greenland has been colonized and by whom. The times when humans disappeared are noted by archeologists, not by historians. I’m thinking also of Chaco canyon in the American Southwest, Mohenjo Daro

To the left, cultures have certainly disappeared. I’m thinking of Christianity moving into Northern Europe. Or maybe the way the Taliban are changing Afghani culture.

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prostateExamination@reddit

The USA is not going anywhere. Your rights and speech are.

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Shoddy-Childhood-511@reddit

The Dacic territory was mainly settled by Roman soldiers and a small amount of commoners, which did eventually lead to a fusion of the cultures, but it wasn't at all like a continuation of the Roman empire. It's also why despite Romania using a latin based romance language, it still has a lot of slavic influences, and is further from latin than any romance language.

The actual continuation of Rome was the Byzantine empire, which led into multiple nation states and influenced their development, which did include the Balkans and it's part of the reason why the Balkans are such a mess to this day.

But Romania is not a continuation of Rome, and never was, it's just called Romania because of the weird cultural chimera it is. A combination of 0 record keeping till the 9th century, Roman superiority complex among the settlers, plus an inflated ego due to heavy imperialist influence from both the Byzantine and Ottoman empire.

Romania only became romania after 3 states combined, Transylvania, Moldova, and Wallachia. Wallachia among romanians is also called the Romanian Land due to the belief they are the true descendants of the Romans. Due to the fact that the 3 states usually combined due and under a Wallachian ruler, as there were multiple attempts that failed for different reason, the name they settled one was Romania, to signify the union of all romanian people and continue the legacy of the true descendants of Rome despite being nothing like it.

Waste_Recognition184@reddit

Chris Hedges is a far far left-wing communist pretending to be a Christian! He hates America and loves Islam

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ttystikk@reddit

He's an ordained minister. He hates the extreme of capital, including control of the political system that is currently dragging the West into Fascism. That's a problem with OUR system, not communism.

That is an extensive article. Totally worth the read. TY.

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xrm67@reddit

Sequal here: America’s Descent Toward Authoritarianism: Mapping the Mechanisms of Democratic Erosion

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the link!

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PM-me-in-100-years@reddit

The US is a healthy plutocracy. Rich people sit by, comfortably getting richer, and pitting everyone else against each other.

They have their gentlemanly squabbles, but until the rich start assassinating each other, there's no political collapse coming any time soon.

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errie_tholluxe@reddit

Unless of course you count political collapse as the death of the social contract which is happening in real time.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

That’s an interesting thought. Write more?

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errie_tholluxe@reddit

Both sides share a lot of the same values across the aisle and in a lot of cases the same donors. However, the Republicans seem to have decided that the social contract cost too much money for them to continue, because it takes away value for, well if they were a company shareholders but since they're not oligarchs. The Democrats seem to have decided to draw the line, let's hope they hold it, because they seem to still think the social contract exists and should continue to exist.

Personally, both sides believe in wage slavery, but the Democrats at least believe in giving a bone every once in awhile, and modern Republicans have decided the bones are too fucking expensive. The bones of course, being all the public services that are offered by the government out of the tax, it's all of the lower lower middle class and poor people pay in. Because there is no upper middle class, just rich, richer and holy fuck.

Democrats have always been the party for social contracts, which is why the Republicans call them socialists so often even though they're so far to the right of being a socialist, it might as well be over the horizon. Meanwhile, the Republicans past fascism some time ago and are just letting a system catch up to them.

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Sm2x@reddit

Except Clinton enacted some of the biggest cuts to welfare and signed NAFTA. The privatization and union busting of Regan in the 1980's started the fall and what Clinton did accelerated it by turning the Dems from social issues into the blue dog coalition.

The Republicans call anything they don't like socialist, it has nothing to do with some mythical Dem "social contract" since they abandoned that for their donors quite a while ago. In fact Nancy Pelosi was pro universal healthcare in the 1990s but has a much different stance now. Let's also not forget that the Dems have called both Bernie Sanders and Zohran Mamdani communists and socialists. The entire DNC worked harder to smear and stop Bernie's campaigns (especially 2016) than they have tried to stop their supposed "opposition" in decades.

The Dems holding firm on healthcare is wonderful to see but the ACA (aka Obamacare) doesn't go far enough and still allows insurance companies to profit off the backs of sick people. Still nice to see them actually doing something that benefits people even if it doesn't go far enough but I've been burnt enough times to wonder which Dem will crack under donor pressure.

The US gave up on a social contract for it's people beginning in the 80s but again, Clinton's welfare reform is what hollowed out what little we did have. And what we do have now pales in comparison to even places like the UK and Canada which are facing similar issues as we are and is a joke compared to other developed countries (I hate that word but couldn't think of a different term).

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errie_tholluxe@reddit

Yes, you are correct. Democrats have moved further to the right for sure. You can't call very many of them progressive and only a couple liberal

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Sm2x@reddit

Yup we have right and right lite now as our two parties. I just wish more people saw what's been happening and how we got here. This doesn't just happen because of one President, it's been a long time coming.

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HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit

I would not even call the over class billionaires "Gentlemen". I don't even know what to call them.

Otherwise, I agree with your post.

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livlaffluv420@reddit

But it’s true!

Who could forget the “Gentlemanly Squabble” between current US Commander-In-Chief/overall slimeball Donald J. Trump & his twice convicted child molesting longtime self-described best pal Jeffrey Epstein over who was gonna have first dibs on a 10 yr old?

I have tried to tell people this but they don’t want to hear it. We live in such a delusional time now.

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The-Neat-Meat@reddit

There’s also the fact that the fall of the USSR was the direct result of DECADES of meddling by America, and particularly the CIA; what we are seeing now is the imperial boomerang finally coming back home.

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25TiMp@reddit

An under-appreciated fact!

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freemochara@reddit

Yeah no chance of a balkanisation. The american civil war will look more like the syrian civil war than the first.

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GhooricZone@reddit

Yes, that's part of what I was hitting: that it's difficult to imagine the how more than the why. Buttons are certainly being pushed, and they are state and city focused, but how would that lead to a separation from the culture, the commerce, the community? And yet an event like that is palpably on a lot of peoples' minds right now. Strange times.

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Kim_Jong_Unko@reddit

Whatever final form it may eventually take, the years leading up to it will be very unpleasant for everyone involved.

· the tendency of the rate of profit to decline, especially as productive inputs and market expansion plateau · the diminishing EROI (energy return on investment) of oil, which made energy more expensive

A conundrum that was brilliantly solved, as the US had the capacity to impose military victories (through Israel) and stitch deals with Middle Eastern countries, securing control of global oil markets - not only through direct sales.

Key producers, like Saud Arabia, agreed to only sell oil for dollars. That cemented a structural global need for American currency, debt, debt markets and assets, since oil was an absolutely necessary input industrial production.

This arrangement, in turn, allowed the American economy to disengage from a dependency on industrial profits, which have lower returns, and indulge in much higher margin sectors: real estate, entertainment, stock trading, consulting, private health and education, law. And crucially, from a geopolitical standpoint, the useful industries: military and surveillance equipment, drugs, oil.

Those high returns enabled American dominance in modern digital technologies and their markets.

BUT those digital markets are also highly financialized, which means high leverage/debt, which calls for higher guaranteed returns, continuing the cycle: the US sells software, licenses, stocks and debt while other countries make the actual goods.

Come to today: global oil demand is on the verge of being undercut by Chinese solar/ev exports; oil and commodities are being increasingly traded outside the dollar; Central Bank demand for treasuries had fallen of a cliff around the world; American military supremacy is under serious question.

Meanwhile, the country has divested from infrastructure, from production of material goods. Copper wires, face masks, tooling machines, steel. It has divested from education, from creating the skill base needed to build those things at scale, competitively.

Public debt is in a spiral. There is no containing it, exactly like there is no containing the oil capital, which is linked with military profits, which are linked with tech stocks and a never-ending apocalypse in the Middle East.

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Gorbachev was a paragon of sanity compared to Trump.

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ksixnine@reddit

It seems as if a whole lotta people need a refresher on US history in order to understand that we swing between being democratic to being republican, and the media (all of it) plays a massive role in public opinion as to how this plays out.

People need to be reminded that “our” Jim Crow laws were a blueprint for both the Nazi and Apartheid regimes — which means we’ve been dynamically authoritarian for a long long time [re: Operation Wetback, Japanese internment, No Irish Allowed, anti-Catholic, the sterilization of indigenous women, the Tuskegee experiment (which might well be a backlash against them providing so many pilots during WW2), the Zoot Suit issues, the multiple race riots against black incorporated towns which blended into the decades long lynchings, McCarthyism, etc…]

The point I’m making is that the US has a less than minor appreciation on the non-white/ non-US born/ non-male achievements which helped us grow, especially during and post WW2, into the lone powerhouse post sed war — we weren’t the smartest, and we weren’t the best when we entered, but we had a deep desire to not be conquered by someone else developing a nuclear weapon.

We are re-repeating parts of a playbook that doesn’t wish to accept how or why we rose to top dog global prominence by favoring political fealty over competence, as we pretend that our economic strength will carry us through, because too many weak men don’t want to accept the blood soaked reality of how this country was made in order for us to be able to stand as the rest of the first world was caught up in rebuilding itself — it’s as if we chose to abandon our perch in order to craft chaos (economic/ political) without being genuine with all of our populace that that chaos was definitely going to come home.

A key thing that the current administration has forgotten is that although (more) people voted for a white man vs a black•South Asian woman, the plurality of those voters aren’t in lock step with him for myriad reasons — they see the lies … the faux justifications … it’s only a matter of time before they are affected by this administration’s policies and turn.

ejpusa@reddit

Americans are more concerned that Starbucks is going to run out of Pumpkin Spice this Fall than a /collapse.

all-day-pj@reddit

All of the dominos have to fall at some point or another!

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nomadicding0@reddit

And it’s YOUR fault

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PLUTO_HAS_COME_BACK@reddit

American leaders have a long-term plan (17) Post from The New Atlas - YouTube

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bobbdac7894@reddit

What do you mean by fall? Balkanization? Doubt it. The federal government would send in the military if States try to separate.

What I predict happening is a lot of our issues just continuing to get worse and worse. This in a way is worse than States separating. Because, the scenario States separate, some might end up doing well. I think there will be more mass shootings. I think there will be wider wealth inequality. I think there will be more climate disasters. I think things will continue to get more and more expensive. I think Americans will get more and more unhealthier and fatter and fatter. I think they will get stupider and stupider. I think Americans will be more unhinged with their Christian nationalism. I think there will be more censorship. I think there will be more and more a police state. I think the billionaires and corporations will hold on to power and will continue to control our media, the politicians, market. Everything. I think all of these things will get 10 times worse. This scenario is a fall.

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MairusuPawa@reddit

Some people om Reddit are still defending the idea that nazi salutes actually aren't nazi. So yeah, it's all kinda fucked up.

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I’ve had this thought for a while: the US is a heavy, HEAVY train moving across the tracks. There are little tiny obstructions on the track that slow it down very incrementally.

I’m US. I’m not saying it should be slowed down necessarily, as much of the world relies on it for trade and global stability etc. But the divisiveness injected into us as a nation especially by foreign actors, blatant misinformation etc is splintering it. The train is heavy and will take a lot to bring it to a halt but it is slowing. To ignore that is to ignore reality.

If only the slowdown of a train was as banal as the slowdown of a nation, unfortunately it isn’t. People will grasp at straws (MAGA) etc to try to hold on to some vestige of power while failing to unify under causes that should be universally accepted or condemned.

Anti vax movement? Clearly anti intellectual. Pro JAN6? Clearly an insurrection. Anti immigrant? Clearly ignoring our collective heritage, painting people who have both been clearly exploited and clearly punished by the same system. Climate change - arguably the biggest threat we face as a nation and the world - liberal hoax.

It's the only thing that explains everything he's doing. Everything he does has 2 outcomes: 1. harming the US internally and externally, and/or 2. Helping Russia.

But yeah. The US is cooked unless Americans actually have a revolution over what he's doing.

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Bobcatluv@reddit

There’s a Netflix documentary, Turning Point: The Bomb and the Cold War (no, not that Turning Point) by documentarian Brian Knappenberger that covers all you mention and I saw a lot of parallels to our country. Particularly, the effectiveness of their disinformation campaigns in ruining their and now our country.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Thank you for the reference. I’ll follow up.

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darkpsychicenergy@reddit

Nothing on Netflix is going to be politically or historically enlightening, especially in any international context.

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antijoke_13@reddit

I think what we're looking at is closer to the transition from the Roman Republic to the Roman Empire. America is not going to collapse so much as it's going to shed the mask of benevolent civility it currently maintains and become properly expansionist. I fully expect us to do to Canada and Mexico what Russia is currently doing to Ukraine, though I suspect we will generally be more successful in the matter. This is not to say that Canada and Mexico will cease to exist as independent nations, but we'll take large parts of their territory in the name of "national security."

Doing so is going to completely kill what little political legitimacy America has left on the world stage, but I don't think the current crop of politicians or their voters care: an America divorced from international politics has been a pipedream of right wingers everywhere, despite the fact that global trade and travel is the lifeblood of modern American prosperity. Russia will be more than happy to back a US empire pushing into South America since it will decrease the likelihood of us meddling in their own efforts in Europe. If China is smart, they'll make some deal with the US guaranteeing access to (significantly lower quality) semiconductors and computer parts in exchange for abandoning our allies in the Pacific. China will take over as the reserve currency of the world, since they'll be the only ones both stable enough and internationally involved enough to make that happen.

Europe will get split between the new Big Three (US, China, Russia) and sold for parts.

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nachohk@reddit

I fully expect us to do to Canada and Mexico what Russia is currently doing to Ukraine, though I suspect we will generally be more successful in the matter.

Why? Ukraine at least has farmland. What do Canada or Mexico have that the United States hasn't got already? I don't think this is plausible at all.

If we're predicting an American military campaign to try to prop up its self-destructing economy, which I think is possible though I'm not really that convinced of, I think Cuba, Haiti, and/or the Dominican Republic are the more likely targets. It's inconceivable that they could meaningfully threaten the United States due to American naval dominance and the lack of shared land borders, it's distant enough and foreign enough that I think there would be much less severe backlash from the public compared to Canada or Mexico, and there is at least a somewhat convincing pretext available that such conquest would help to create a kind of buffer and staging post and solidify American naval superiority in the Atlantic.

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darkpsychicenergy@reddit

https://data.footprintnetwork.org/#/??_ga=2.265925839.1799298812.1758556840-1647542885.1758556840

The majority of people, including those on this sub, consistently ignore this data and all its implications, to their ongoing and endless detriment.

Canada has far more available biocapacity than the US, especially at US rates of consumption. Mexico doesn’t really have shit, but it is in the way.

Note which other countries have massive biocapacity deficits and which have reserves. The last thing Russia needed or wanted was Ukrainian farmland. It was never about that, for Russia. But certain other countries definitely do need more biocapacity, from somewhere.

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antijoke_13@reddit

Don't fall into the trap of thinking this is about some kind of strategic objective: it's pure political theater where the cost of admission is thousands of innocent lives.

You have to think of Trump as a dumber but more powerful Putin. Putin invaded Ukraine because they desperately need access to Ukrainian farmland and warm water ports. It's the only way to breathe life in to their dying economy. Trump would invade Mexico and Canada because that's what he thinks a strong leader does. There are people around him who likely have more thought out objectives, Trump's just doing it for the photo op.

They are already replacing the Joint Chiefs of Staff with Yes Men, and the military has a long standing tradition of nonpartisanship: if the president says jump, all the generalship feels they get to ask is "how high?"

AntiBoATX@reddit

The only issues I see are 1) the implosion is self-inflicted. We could choose democratic rule of law and social democracy and healthy capitalism and continue to innovate and lead the world. We’re the richest nation with the most science and business friendly environment, highest number of academics, and can grow our own crops and consume our own natural resources. This is purely an issue of greed and power. 2) our military is not going to bow to a dictator. Thus, it’ll have to be dismantled in order to be removed as a threat to the authoritarians. 3) we still remain the most viable economic center of power. Europe and Asia have good companies but population education, work ethic, and innovation all still favor the US. Ai may negate this advantage/ aspect to contend with.

All in all, it’s fucking stupid and frustrating. We could have economically defeated Russia, regained Ukrainian sovereignty and put the non-nato axis on permanent defense only mode and continued to innovate science and technology while exploring the stars and raising standard of living for our 300m population, along with a major focus on climate mitigation. Instead we have lizard men building bunkers in New Zealand and the first half a trillion dollar man playing with a government like it’s a sandbox game.

Greed is our monkey brains’ Great Filter.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

I agree. It is frustrating to watch us shoot ourselves in the foot.

But you don’t think anyone in the military will try for a coup? They can’t possibly respect Hegseth, Trump, or Vance. Maybe not today, but . . . I dunno, say in a year, if the republicans manage to control the mid-term elections, or there’s an actual recession?

I’m absolutely sure there were factions in the Soviet Union‘s armed forces.

And where did all the warlords come from, who control places like Georgia or Azerbaijan?

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HommeMusical@reddit

They have been taught that the honorable way to resist is to resign and that is what they'll do - resign, and make way for the Fascists.

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MistyMtn421@reddit

They have already fired many top level people and after that weird pep rally of the top brass, probably will fire even more. And absolutely those who disagree and haven't been let go will resign.

I was 18 when the wall came down in Berlin. Came of age in a time where as a woman I was able to send myself to school, buy my first home by myself at 26 and thought Al Gore was going to save the planet in 2000. Now that all feels like a fever dream.

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HommeMusical@reddit

It does indeed. Things changed so fast. History in the making, if there are indeed historians in the future.

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detreikght@reddit

Capitalism is working as intended. It's just got harder to exploit Africa, Asia, SA (on whom the prosperity was built). So colonialism had to turn inward.

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Worldly-Flow-185@reddit

At the rate the world is progressing, the rest of the world's propserity will eclipse the US'. Every country is removing the USD out of their reserves, the US government keeps printing money to bail out corporations, and our debt has reached the point where the US will likely have to default on it soon. Manufacturing, agriculture, education, and even social services have been gutted to the point that the country will be unable to rebuild itself when it economically collapses.

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vicnoir@reddit

I love finding Fermi’s Paradox in the wild. ❤️

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HommeMusical@reddit

our military is not going to bow to a dictator.

All the evidence we have says quite the reverse.

DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

He is Polish. I don’t think Poland was part of the Soviet Union.

Also, I don’t know. Bernie, maybe?

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96-62@reddit

Poland was a part of the Soviet Union.

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No-Insurance100@reddit

Open the schools

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

My bad. Thanks for the correction.

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ArendtAnhaenger@reddit

No, Poland was part of the Warsaw Pact and a Soviet satellite state but it was not a Soviet republic the way Russia, Belarus, Estonia, etc. were.

It would be like saying Britain was a part of the USA.

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No-Insurance100@reddit

Bernard Sanders, the genocide apologist?

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Well, who, then? AOC? There’s a real dearth of leadership in this country.

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jaymickef@reddit

That’s what Gerald Ford said to lose the presidential race. I can’t tell if you forget the /s or not.

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TheArcticFox444@reddit

The fall of the United States

It isn't just democracies that die. For the past 10,000 years, give or take, civilizations have risen, flourished, even did astonishing things but all...all...have faded, faultered, and eventually failed. *

Ours will go the same way for, essentially, the same reason. Humans are good at building civilizations using various political, cultural, economic, geography, etc.. Humans just aren't good at sustaining them.

The Columbia History of the World edited by John A . Garraty and Peter Gay

Oxford also puts out a world history.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

Good point. You might enjoy a book called The Dawn of Everything, by Graeber and Wengrow

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TheArcticFox444@reddit

You might enjoy a book called The Dawn of Everything, by Graeber and Wengrow

I live in the Deep South - I would expect these states to stick together as a political unit.

Also, I get what you say about insurgency, But (again I’m not an expert), it sort of seems like the political right is its own insurgency, in spite of their efforts to control the narrative. Although, having the military attack Democratic states could change that.

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SCUMDOG_MILLIONAIRE@reddit

It depends how you define the collapse or fall of a nation. There’s an ongoing and very real decline in the US Democracy Index, but countries remain countries through shifts in governance types. When viewed in certain fiscal lenses the US is doing better than ever and leads the world, even if at the same time more population slips into poverty.

There’s a classic definition of state collapse which is defined by about 12 metrics. I think there’s solid evidence that America is declining in all of them at various rates. Some areas have been declining for decades while other areas have seen a sharp decline in recent years. The other leading nations are already working towards a world that does not include the US as the leading power, and once they can successfully shut out the US from the economic table I think that’s the final straw

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

You know what? That’s a good question. How do you define collapse (of a nation)? I need to think about this.

My background is in agriculture, and the collapse of an industry (citrus in Florida, for example) or the collapse of a clade or emptying of a niche have clear definitions.

I’ve wonder if the sub has a definition. I’ll go look.

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

I’d like to read that study, if you could provide a reference?

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reggieLedoux26@reddit

Trump presiding over the collapse seems inevitable

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DogFennel2025@reddit (OP)

I dunno. I think he’s in a bad way. I think something in his body will break and Vance will be president. He seems to be a strong supporter of the collapse of our country.

I just don’t get how these P2025 people think the economy will survive as climate change progresses.

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TinaKedamina@reddit

My Titans are so ass they aren’t even including in posts about the worst teams in football

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uglyugly1@reddit

What's happening here in the US now reminds me of the beginning of Fernando Aguirre's story on his blog "Surviving in Argentina", which chronicles his experiences navigating post-collapse Argentina after 2001.

Basically, the politicians go nuts, everyone but the richest few becomes broke, and the regular people all turn on each other and fight over the scraps.

Sound familiar?

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IWantoBeliev@reddit

The day Mexican (and rest of South American) don't illegally come, is the day USA fails.

In usa an Latino, Asian, African has a chance to make more than a European, no where else in this world that's possible.

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Wish_Wolf@reddit

I think we are heading towards collapse. I am guessing everyone here sees that dark black wall in their minds whenever they try to do analysis of this country's future. I honestly think people just deny it because they feel it could never happen to us like it does to other countries.

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lovely_sombrero@reddit

The USSR disbanded because the leaders believed they didn't need the USSR anymore, they can just be friends with the benevolent US & NATO. It was crazy that they believed this, the cold war really was won with propaganda.

Almost immediately, the US took control over policy in ex-USSR states and sold Russia off to the oligarchs.

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_jgmm_@reddit

This is the American Perestroika.