Major corporation doesn't want to hand over the entire in-car experience to another company for their own benefit. More at 11.
Moving to CarPlay Ultra is the dumbest f-ing decision a major OEM could possibly do and only makes sense for companies like Aston Martin that can only afford to pay for three developers, 2 of them 1099 employees that work 3 days a week.
I don’t really see what the automakers stand to lose here. The people want CarPlay, not whatever the automakers’ software developers can cook up. Apple has aims of the best software developers in the world.
An automaker would be stupid to not include it. They get to save on development ave the consumers get a better experience.
Then 10 years goes by. Your computer engineering talent is gone. You have no teams or systems in place to develop in-car software. All in-car software is a modern Ford is run on Apple hardware by Apple software.
Then, Apple says one day they no longer wish to support CarPlay Ultra. The business unit will be wound down over 24-36 months and that's that. Or, the market changes and cell phone-based car-infotainment systems are no longer en vouge.
For about 1.5 billion reasons, giving Apple complete control of the car and not having your own engineering capabilities for what is probably the **most important part** of a modern car strikes me as incredibly stupid.
The other issue is if Apple decides tomorrow to start charging OEM’s for CarPlay.
The customers will demand it and it’ll be even more ubiquitous and OEM’s will have no fallback option but to pay Apple.
It seems unlikely since Apple wants to use CarPlay to sell iPhones but their “Services” is an ever expanding portfolio.
"Apple just killed CarPlay Ultra and now I can't turn on my radio." "CarPlay Ultra no longer supports my hardware and Apple is reassigning the team, so hackers can start my car remotely." Nuff said.
Apple. The company that never fails to make you regret your purchase. What you “bought” isn’t really “yours” and whatever it is it will be made obsolete in the shortest possible time frame. Welcome to the cycle of digital fealty and frustration
Yet several OEMs have no issue using Google, king of killing off projects they don’t like, for infotainment. I don’t think this is the issue they have.
I can't advocate for OEMs abdicating responsibility for their own products no matter who they are ceding that responsibility to. What electronic consumer product from 25 years ago is still supported today? Who is still using a phone or a lap top from 2000, and how many cars from 2000 are still on the road? The disparity between those numbers is why giving product development to Apple or Google is a terrible idea.
You think if OEMs maintain control over their infotainment, they’re going to support them for 25 years? Most of them car barely push out an OTA per year, if that. At least Apple and Google have proven they’re capable.
Besides, most OEMs “abdicate responsibility for their own products” as a rule. They farm out their transmissions to ZF, their body control modules to Bosch, their alternators to Denso, their tires to Goodyear, and so on, and then they have Magna Steyr assemble everything. Doing the same for infotainment is just a continuation of how they’ve always done things.
> You think if OEMs maintain control over their infotainment, they’re going to support them for 25 years?
I think it is more likely than farming out development to companies with clear track records of deliberately ruining their own products with forced updates after less than five years.
If they cornered the market for OEM’s I have no doubt they’d wanna monetize it in a subscription or charge to the OEM. Either way, it’d be more costs passed down to consumers, so it’s actually good that OEM’s keep some sort of infotainment, even if it’s not the best
You think OEM infotainment isn’t a cost passed down to consumers?
I’d rather they ditch internal infotainment dev teams, pay Apple, and pass the savings on to consumers.
I worry about what the comment I replied to mentioned. When a company builds a monopoly, they get to charge whatever they want. As long as OEM’s are competing, there’s some competition there. If OEM’s relied completely on Apple, Apple could charge whatever they want and there’d be no alternative, since OEM’s would’ve shut down their infotainment divisions by then.
So... as long as OEMs and Apple and Google are in competition rather than cahoots with each other, we're good? Honestly that makes sense. Duopolies like Mac/Windows and Boeing/Airbus always seem to screw everyone on a long enough timeline.
As with any monopoly, there *is* a [limit](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_price
) on what they can charge and still maximize revenue. At some point, they’d find it more profitable to re-start their own infotainment divisions, and they’d do so. I don’t see that happening though, as Apple’s goal is to get their software into as many vehicles as possible to maintain iPhone market share, and of course Google’s goal is to get their software into as many vehicles as possible to farm data/sell ads. You’re basically expecting them to change their entire business models at some point, which seems unlikely.
You think OEM infotainment isn’t a cost passed down to consumers?
I’d rather they ditch internal infotainment dev teams, pay Apple, and pass the savings on to consumers.
CarPlay and Android Auto sells phones and accessories, not the other way around.
Quote me on this: Apple and Google will never charge for CarPlay/Android Auto from a phone. Built in OS is different.
> Then 10 years goes by. Your computer engineering talent is gone. You have no teams or systems in place to develop in-car software.
Automakers already outsource the manufacture of tyres, brakes, ECU's, sound-systems and others.
It's all about deciding the aspect of car manufacture that your organisation is best at, and can differentiate itself most with, and then focusing on that, and just using the best third-party options for the rest.
Frankly, I don't see how car companies are going to be able to do a better job of creating operating systems and touch-screen UIs than either Apple or Google. Apple already allows companies to customise the design to meet their branding.
Most customers just want a decent maps app, podcast app and Spotify: that's not enough to differentiate a car.
Software needs to work with modern technology as its constantly improving. car parts dont change much and are independent. software thats dependent on a variety of other devices is harder to do.
> Then 10 years goes by. Your computer engineering talent is gone. You have no teams or systems in place to develop in-car software.
Automakers already outsource the manufacture of tyres, brakes, ECU's, sound-systems and others.
It's all about deciding the aspect of car manufacture that your organisation is best at, and can differentiate itself most with, and then focusing on that, and just using the best third-party options for the rest.
Frankly, I don't see how car companies are going to be able to do a better job of creating operating systems and touch-screen UIs than either Apple or Google. Apple already allows companies to customise the design to meet their branding.
Most customers just want a decent maps app, podcast app and Spotify: that's not enough to differentiate a car.
Car manufacturers already do this with large chunks of their vehicles. They would be happy for the cost savings if someone else could give them a plug & play solution for in car software... if they didn't think that could be a revenue stream for them.
The only OEM that adopted CarPlay Ultra on launch is Aston Martin. A tiny OEM that represents 0.0000001% of the global car market.
I guarantee you Apple has held meetings with the CEOs/CTOs of every major car OEM on earth, yet none of them have but Ultra into their cars.
It’s also been delayed to death. Pretty sure Ultra was announced years ago and it’s just now starting to trickle out on $300k cars.
Solution? Bake in both your own and support CarPlay.
You can see which customers are using and how customers are using it and use the data to improve yours until people prefer it.
Nobody said anything about single sourcing CarPlay and absolving themselves of responsibility for developing their own solutions concurrently.
The problem is fundamentally a service problem. OEM infotainment UI/UX is frankly kinda ass and very unintuitive. I have no incentive to use the Supra app over Google Maps or Waze unless I want navigation on the HUD.
OEMs need to step it up and compete with better designed UI, faster infotainment and more convenient features. That means spending more capital on talent and dev time.
Until then people will say you need CarPlay until something better comes along.
Something better has come along. It just comes with a subscription. BMW’s newest iDrive is amazing. We have put more miles on the wife’s X5 than any other vehicle we have.
It’s also better than any cars we have rented or borrowed, including a 2022 Model 3.
Something better has come along. It just comes with a subscription. BMW’s newest iDrive is amazing. We have put more miles on the wife’s X5 than any other vehicle we have.
It’s also better than any cars we have rented or borrowed, including a 2022 Model 3.
I mean, they *have* to bake in both because of the way CPU (well that’s an odd acronym) works. The problem really is Apple didn’t go far enough. OEMs *love* Android Automotive, because it lets them fully farm out infotainment to Google. With CPU, they still have to develop their own OS, meaning they’re not really saving anything.
There will always be other venders.
If I can’t use Apple CarPlay will be less interested in my Ford because I won’t enjoy it as much, and I will not pay extra for add ons.
I can use navigation with my phone whether or not Ford uses Apple CarPlay. I’m just a happy, more loyal customer if I can use CarPlay. I will no longer need to pay for a premium sound system in my car because I will use my earbuds.
I’m not going to be fucking nickeled and dimed by an auto company that can’t make the rest of their electronics work right.
I was thinking of buying a GMC next but they have too many problems. My brother’s GMC electronics in the transmission doesn’t work right. The mirrors that tilt down when he puts it in reverse don’t tilt back up and several other things and now they think they can add to their plate the CarPlay system. Ford isn’t that much better. So they will make less money from me and I won’t enjoy my truck as much.
But big corporations seem bent on destroying themselves.
OEMs have no teams or talent to develop in-car software currently, so anything else is an upgrade. The is clearly evidently for the dismal state of OEM infotainment systems.
CarPlay Ultra offers something customers want, which is interfacing their personal data privately with the car while having customizable UI that automakers are unable to provide without monetizing and data-mining.
>OEMs have no teams or talent to develop in-car software right now
I don't think you know what "no" talent means.
>CarPlay Ultra offers something customers want
Highly debatable. Not sure customers are clamoring for the dashboard of their F-150 to look like iOS. Ultra in its current rendition is a flop for reasons beyond *"car makers can't sell subscription heat seaters now!!!11"*
I have to imagine the car would still have a baked in interface it would use when there's no phone connected right? Like if you bring it in for service would they expect the mechanic to have an iPhone and want to pair it with the customers car just to move the thing into their work bay?
Not everyone has an iPhone or wants to plug in into the car every time. They still have to do all the development for the regular interface too, plus the extra work to support this Apple stuff.
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because it contains a link to a delisted domain. This is almost always due to spam from the domain.
Please use a different source.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
I was a person who wanted CarPlay but my use of it is less and less as OEM software gets better and better.
Yeah, CarPlay/Android Auto took off initially because the car manufacturers gatekeep the navigation feature to higher trims and back then a lot of built-in mapping software sucks. If the built-in maps were better and don't need a subscription to use (such as traffic or live map updates), using the built-in maps would be more convenient to use
In this specific case? Possibly alienating a huge chunk of the market simply because of the type of phone they have.
It seems fine today, but what if in 5 years or so Apple decides it's gonna charge a premium or no longer be compatible with Android. Carmakers losing out on possible sales because their customers don't have an iPhone is probably not a risk they want to expose themselves to.
> Possibly alienating a huge chunk of the market simply because of the type of phone they have.
How so?
> It seems fine today, but what if in 5 years or so Apple decides it's gonna charge a premium or no longer be compatible with Android.
Not how any of this works. Read up on what Ultra actually is. It’s not like Android Automotive, unfortunately. There’s no “compatible with Android” necessary on Apple’s part.
And the 45% of the US population (or 72% of the global pop) that uses Android just isn't part of your target market anymore. Make sense.
Carplay Ultra just seems like a desperate attempt to salvage something out of the $10B Apple spent on it's car project that never made it anywhere. What problem is it solving?
> And the 45% of the US population (or 72% of the global pop) that uses Android just isn't part of your target market anymore. Make sense.
Tell me you have no idea what CPU is without telling me you have no idea what CPU is.
Control over your own platform and data, that’s what’s in danger. Partnerships with big tech frequently go very badly. Especially when such a tech company would really love to be in your industry as a competitor as is the case here.
How is Apple a competitor to Ford exactly? They shelved their car project a while ago.
If anything Google is a bigger threat to being a competitor, yet automakers seem to have no problem using Android Automotive.
Tbf, car entertainment / navigation systems from 20+ ago still work today. Yes they might feel janky when compared to modern systems, but they do still work. The problem with handing over their entertainment system development to the likes of Google/Apple is that they can (and do) lock you out of apps if you device is not running the current software.
Cars 20 years ago weren’t connected, so there were no real security concerns. Your phone is connected, so there are. But let’s be real, if you can no longer open navigation software on your phone, you’re going to upgrade it anyways, so whether it’s central to your vehicular experience or not is immaterial.
I'm sure they will see it as losing control of their infotainment ecosystem. This on top of making the infotainment system a worse experience for anyone who doesn't also have an apple smartphone.
> This on top of making the infotainment system a worse experience for anyone who doesn't also have an apple smartphone.
How so?
Do you know how CPU works?
In this specific case? Possibly alienating a huge chunk of the market simply because of the type of phone they have.
It seems fine today, but what if in 5 years or so Apple decides it's gonna charge a premium or no longer be compatible with Android. Carmakers losing out on possible sales because their customers don't have an iPhone is probably not a risk they want to expose themselves to.
Apple is a brutal business partner. They have a great public face but they are perhaps the most ruthless negotiator in the world given their size and power. No company wants to depend on them but many end up doing so anyways given the volume of business they can drive.
Apple is a $4,000B company, Ford is a $48B company. You really don't want to be subservient to a company that views your entire company as a rounding error.
See PowerVR of Imagination Technologies. This company made great GPU designs for mobile devices. Apple became a customer, drove their revenue through the roof, stole their talent, stole their designs, and then decided to refuse to pay. They then used their sheer power and size to litigate their way to safety, agreeing to a drastically reduced licensing fee.
Apple is a brutal business partner. They have a great public face but they are perhaps the most ruthless negotiator in the world given their size and power. No company wants to depend on them but many end up doing so anyways given the volume of business they can drive.
Apple is a $4,000B company, Ford is a $48B company. You really don't want to be subservient to a company that views your entire company as a rounding error.
See PowerVR of Imagination Technologies. This company made great GPU designs for mobile devices. Apple became a customer, drove their revenue through the roof, stole their talent, stole their designs, and then decided to refuse to pay. They then used their sheer power and size to litigate their way to safety, agreeing to a drastically reduced licensing fee.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
I was a person who wanted CarPlay but my use of it is less and less as OEM software gets better and better.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
I was a person who wanted CarPlay but my use of it is less and less as OEM software gets better and better.
I drive a '24 Peugeot and I really like their Infotainment system. You can customize the colors for each drive mode, you have Android Auto integrated to the point I get Google Maps directions on the dash.
Why would I want some crap made by apple?
It’s about control and access to data. Apple wants to be ingrained into how the vehicle operates, and then can exert its will onto the automaker - “make this change or we will make CarPlay incompatible with your system at the next update”. And what you won’t hear about is the data agreements…Apple wants it all, and wants it exclusive to them. Get ready for real-time ads in your head unit.
They stand to lose their cut of the pie. It's not about what the customers want, it's about what the shareholders want. They want you to have to pay a subscription fee for the things you are currently using your phones mirroring capabilities for. You'll have a worse experience, pay for it and be happy about it.
Subscription monetization models will be heavily introduced into cars in the near future. It's all about getting you to keep giving them money. Plus they can build in some planned obsolescence so the cars go to the scrap pile sooner.
Fuck em. One of my cars is a 1990. I’ve swapped the radio a few times and now it has CarPlay!
I’ll happily only buy used vehicles that have CarPlay or allow radio upgrades. I’m not paying any subscriptions for my car besides insurance and registration fees to legally drive
The whole situation sucks because you don't want to give Apple full control of your car's experience either, they're not some benevolent company who only wants you to have a good time.
They might harvest your data, sell you ads and push other Apple services into you, or charge manufacturers for the privilege of using their highly-demanded infotainment system, the cost of which will be passed onto us.
The best case scenario is that manufacturers wholly reject Carplay Ultra and Apple compromises by keeping a toned-down version that doesn't require full control, like the current system.
Yeah- just give CarPlay as the option. If you want to make your own software- cool. I promise people will pick the OEM solution if it’s actually better.
Like TV and most consumer electronics manufacturers, car manufacturers have very slim profit margins on manufacturing and selling hardware. The real profits come from bundling in recurring revenue subscription services via software. TV manufacturers get kickbacks from bundling in Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney Plus into their TVs. Auto manufacturers similarly want in on software subscription revenue rather than giving it away to Apple. Particularly when it comes to subscriptions to music streaming, navigation software, etc.
Like TV and most consumer electronics manufacturers, car manufacturers have very slim profit margins on manufacturing and selling hardware. The real profits come from bundling in recurring revenue subscription services via software. TV manufacturers get kickbacks from bundling in Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney Plus into their TVs. Auto manufacturers similarly want in on software subscription revenue rather than giving it away to Apple. Particularly when it comes to subscriptions to music streaming, navigation software, etc.
Like TV and most consumer electronics manufacturers, car manufacturers have very slim profit margins on manufacturing and selling hardware. The real profits come from bundling in recurring revenue subscription services via software. TV manufacturers get kickbacks from bundling in Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney Plus into their TVs. Auto manufacturers similarly want in on software subscription revenue rather than giving it away to Apple. Particularly when it comes to subscriptions to music streaming, navigation software, etc.
Like TV and most consumer electronics manufacturers, car manufacturers have very slim profit margins on manufacturing and selling hardware. The real profits come from bundling in recurring revenue subscription services via software. TV manufacturers get kickbacks from bundling in Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney Plus into their TVs. Auto manufacturers similarly want in on software subscription revenue rather than giving it away to Apple. Particularly when it comes to subscriptions to music streaming, navigation software, etc.
Like TV and most consumer electronics manufacturers, car manufacturers have very slim profit margins on manufacturing and selling hardware. The real profits come from bundling in recurring revenue subscription services via software. TV manufacturers get kickbacks from bundling in Amazon Prime, Netflix and Disney Plus into their TVs. Auto manufacturers similarly want in on software subscription revenue rather than giving it away to Apple. Particularly when it comes to subscriptions to music streaming, navigation software, etc.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
I was a person who wanted CarPlay but my use of it is less and less as OEM software gets better and better.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
I was a person who wanted CarPlay but my use of it is less and less as OEM software gets better and better.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
> The people want CarPlay
The last time this thread came up, especially with BMW, I was very cantankerous about how important CarPlay is.
But then I thought. BMW's comments were specifically about Maps and nother other CarPlay services.
I, by and large, use the in built Android Google Maps solution that came with my Volvo. It is slightly more convenient than using CarPlay. I also use the in built Spotify as well.
When I use CarPlay it's mostly because someone texted me a link to a location, or the Volvo software is being buggy.
Point being, if OEM software is as convenient as the software in my Volvo then I could see myself using CarPlay less and less.
> Apple has aims of the best software developers in the world.
Despite that, reviews have been middling. It's ok, but people were happy with regular CarPlay, and they haven't fixed problems such as Siri's poor voice recognition. Ultra doesn't seem to add much value, but it does sell your driving habits to your insurance company.
Android Automotive is a better option for manufacturers because it provides them with more control over the user experience. They can still have their software teams customize it as much as necessary so that the experience is different from other manufacturers who are also using Android Automotive.
Because if they don't offer CarPlay and Android Auto (gonna group them into "mirroring"), they get to have a steady stream of income from the car for years in the form of subscriptions and data collection, even from the people who buy it used. So they not only get paid by the initial owner, but potentially every other driver who owns the thing down the line.
Want the badass HUD to show you navigation directions so you can justify the premium you've paid for it? No mirroring, use the built-in navigation. Want to see the entire map on your expensive overengineered digital dashboard like in the brochures and the ads? No mirroring, use the built-in navigation. Want to use the advertised feature where your adaptive cruise control can adjust its speed based on upcoming turns and hills? Only works with built-in navigation I'm afraid. So pay the fuck up. And while you're paying us to provide connectivity that your overpowered pocket computer could easily provide, let us collect your data and sell it to advertisers.
Being able to track all of your travel, knowing which places you frequent, in order to better target ads to you. Which, they already do with your phone's GPS. But, now they also get all your driving habits and telemetry data to sell to insurance companies and anyone else who may be interested.
Maybe not now but anything can happen. Lots of tech companies have turned their backs on consumers once they get a different CEO, investors, etc.
People used to love Xbox and Microsoft, look how it all changed in just a few years. Now all the data steaking is baked right into the OS. Nintendo also going down the drain but for other reasons. Then EA selling out.
COMPANIES are not your friend.
Theres no insults my guy. If you're defending a publicly traded company such as this either you're a fanboy or or part of the PR team.
Neither way should you defend them like this as Apple is one of the most anti consumer companies in the world.
lol That's Google's game. Apple is a hardware company. They want to sell more iPhones.
Google is the one that wants to know more about you so they can sell targeted ads to you.
Except, they're kind of in it together. There's a reason Google pays Apple Billions a year, to make sure that Google stays as the default search app on iPhones.
*Google paid Apple approximately $20 billion in 2022 to remain the default search engine on Apple's Safari browser, and this figure has been cited in a Department of Justice antitrust case against Google. The payment represents nearly half of Google's total search traffic and is a significant portion of Apple's Services revenue.* ([SOURCE](https://appleinsider.com/articles/25/05/06/googles-default-search-payments-to-apple-at-risk-in-antitrust-lawsuit))
So, while Apple touts that they don't sell your data, they are more than happy to take payment for access to it, from Google. So, how innocent are they really? I mean, they are literally profiting off of your private data. They're just letting someone else do the dirty work of collecting it.
> in order to better target ads to you.
Apple isn't really in the business of targeting ads, that's Googles realm.
> But, now they also get all your driving habits and telemetry data to sell to insurance companies and anyone else who may be interested.
Oh, so car companies are afraid that they won't be do that themselves?
Yeah honestly Apple will do a lot less sketchy stuff with that data than the OEMs would lol. Apple is mainly a hardware company and they market themselves as privacy-first as a consequence of that.
Apple is way less aggressive at collecting data than they could be and they don’t sell any user data to third parties. OEMs can’t say the same.
They’re already rumored to start selling ads in Maps. If it ends up becoming true, then it wouldn’t be long before they become the same sleazy ad company as everyone else
Exactly. People out here thinking Apple is their best friend not realizing it's just another publicly traded company. They're beholden to the shareholders.
Apple do use targeted ads, but they don't sell the data it gets for targeting to third parties (yet). They use them for their own products.
(See the "Personalized Recommendations" toggle in Apple ID settings under App Store, and Weather/Maps/News/Books usage identifiers)
Apple isn't going to sell users telemetry data. It isn't part of their business model. Will they use it for their own benefit? Absolutely. But I'd trust it with them over the auto OEM's 10 times out of 10.
Users become more and more accustomed to Apple’s design language and UX philosophy. Now instead of having to get used to a new infotainment every time you get into a new car, you’re greeted by an infotainment experience you already know how to use. This makes users more likely to stick with Apple’s ecosystem, which sells phones, tablets, and computers.
Like a lot of what Apple does, CarPlay is software designed to sell the hardware that underlines it.
Because Ford going in on CarPlay Ultra then requires them to 1. Become beholden to Apple to both deliver the experience Apple and Apple customers will expect 2. Still develop their own gauge cluster and infotainment because you still have to cater to people who don’t have iPhones. It means that Ford has to now *add* to their list of software concerns without actually solving any problems for Ford Motor Company, and now they have to keep Apple happy, a position they don’t want to have to be in.
It's about control. You are effectively handing over the way a consumer interacts with your $50k+ product to another company.
It's a huge, huge risk for a company to really go both feet in on a system like this. Winding down internal talent for these products, faith that Apple will continue to support the product for years to come, faith that Apple continually delivers high quality software that also plays nice with consumers who user other phone OS's (50% of Americans are on Android).
> Is Ford considering selling phones?
Can't answer this one. But based on a survey I got from them last week, they seem to be looking really hard at becoming a bank.
If people like CarPlay they’ll have another reason to keep buying iPhones. At least Apple doesn’t sell your to third parties like [most carmakers do](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a61711288/automakers-sold-customer-data-for-small-profits/).
Like OEMs are good at making digital user interfaces.
They absolutely suck at it.
Physical buttons? Sure. The Germans nailed it years ago. But, US automakers suck at *all* user interfaces.
Not at all
> “We don’t think we should restrict that to make money off the customers,” he said. “We don’t want it to be a hassle. We don’t think we can design an experience that’s going to displace your phone.
> And yet, at the same time, whether it’s automated systems or the way a trip gets planned, there are things that Ford is working on to add on top of that digital experience of Google and CarPlay that will make it even better.”
> Farley said that Ford is still committed to consumer choice, meaning he has no plans to limit access to CarPlay or Android Auto
Farley has a point, where do you want to draw the line on what ford handles and what they don't? and if that line is anything except 100%, why not just handle the rest yourself instead of painstakingly working with apple?
This is Apple's way to battle against Android Automotive. There's zero chance they'll ever open up ios to let car manufacturers create their own version to install as the base operating system in the car so they're trying the next best thing. Connect your iPhone to your car and let it do all of the functions.
This is probably a losing battle for Apple. Just look at the number of manufacturers moving to, or have already moved to, Android Automotive (from mainstream to luxury and everything between) and the number that want to enable Carplay Ultra. Why would these companies want to build out their own connected platforms only to have it being left unused?
You can't deny that Carplay Ultra, if it was properly integrated into the vehicle, would the better choice for 99.9% of consumers. Ofcourse he's not gonna come out and say that apple is better and they should take over the software.
In an ideal world, the software would be developed by the software giants and vice versa. But ofcourse, nobody wants to lose out on recurring, predictable revenue. And sure, apple might draw some boundaries and force Ford to fit their stuff into it but, at the end of the day, it'd still be more convenient and intuitive for the end user. I mean, just ask a 100 iPhone users why they chose apple and most of them will say that it's convenient and easy to use.
Now sure, at some point it does become a never stopping hamster wheel where they're forced to do as apple tells them and they'd likely want to avoid that.
>I think standard CarPlay is still the better balance for most manufacturers
I agree. Use Carplay and integrate it better into the car. We don't need to go full ultra. That only makes sense for super niche makers (like aston) who can't dedicate resources to that. But then again, we all know what a shitfest CARIAD has been.
> You can't deny that Carplay Ultra, if it was properly integrated into the vehicle, would the better choice for 99.9% of consumers.
I highly doubt 99.9 % of consumers are iPhone owners
I am denying it because 99.9% of consumers don't own a product running iOS
> In an ideal world, the software would be developed by the software giants
The software giants don't know what folks expect out of cars and vice versa, there is a happy middle ground, & few e.g. Tesla have developed that middle ground in-house
I've tired CarPlay Ultra, its impressive technically, it also feels like it was designed by people who don't drive
The comment you replied to is wrong, he was clear that they want to support CarPlay…but they do have actually quite a few subscriptions. My Mach-e has a data subscription option and Alexa subscription.
Just get a MagSafe mount for your phone on the dash. I hate both Carplay and car infotainments. I know my phone best because I set it up that way. The rest can F off.
The phone has a screen and a user interface that's not meant to be used while driving. Also it is illegal to touch the phone while driving in states with better driving laws.
Yes CarPlay has big buttons and very limited interaction points, which is sort of the point for safety. But it turns out that this makes it more dangerous for basic driving scenarios where you are dependent on your phone. For example, if someone sends you an address and you want to put it in the nav. With a phone you can quickly copy and paste. Or use the app split screen with dictation. Now you may say that you’re supposed to do all that before setting off, but what if plans change mid trip? But even more to the point they user test the shit out of new phone functionalities and there’s no way to do that with CarPlay.
Easy. Stop the car somewhere safe. Put it in park and use your phone to add the address to the navigation. It might take a few minutes but it is safer.
If your friend has an Iphone and invites you to a calendar event with an address then it might come up as a suggested destination in CarPlay automatically - not sure about your scenario but I have seen calendar event addresses come up automatically in CarPlay.
CarPlay on the infotainment screen, yes; CarPlay Ultra that is also taking over the instrument cluster, why?
Plus all the Ultra screenshots show the HVAC buttons in the screen. If that precludes physical HVAC buttons, then definitely no
Euro's NCAP now wont grant 5 star ratings to cars with critical infrastructure on screens. Turn signals, wipers, HVAC and emergency functions are all on that list of "physical buttons required".
The study they recently released is mind-blowing. Traveling at 100km/hr, the driver of a car with HVAC in the infotainment system has to look away from the road for 1500 meters to turn on the AC and adjust the temperature. A car with buttons only took 300 meters of distraction.
That puts the distraction on point with an ABV of 0.1, which is put your ass in prison and take away the license for life in many countries... and theres hundreds of studies showing this same or similar outcome.
If we can't text n' drive, and all agree that it's as dangerous as drink driving... then why can I tap n' drive with a touchscreen infotainment. 15 year old idiot me knew it was a fucking stupid idea, 25 years ago when all the patents were being filed for this malarky.
https://www.vibilagare.se/english/physical-buttons-outperform-touchscreens-new-cars-test-finds
& Trl drink drive study. https://www.trl.co.uk/uploads/trl/documents/ppr948-_iam-roadsmart---infotainment-sim-study.pdf
Anecdotally, I got my first touchscreen car last year after 25 years of driving nothing but old manual-as-possible sports cars, and club racing on the track... That thing is freaking deadly, the screen just grabs your attention so easily & frequently and normalizes doing focused complex tasks while ignoring the most complex & deadly one (driving). I work in tech, it's not like I'm prone to distraction by screens. Yet I find that car very tiring & annoying to drive. Especially with the screen on & changing all the time. It's usually set to display the clock, if I'm not following map directions.
The only reasons I want CarPlay are for navigation, and so that I’m not using a BT to FM adapter to listen to music.
Luckily, HVAC controls stay separate on my 20 year old car.
I'm a practicing fan of this mentality... strap that phone to a dashboard clip n be on your way. Tech is/was the primary reason I wouldn't touch a newer (post 2006ish for the makes I gravitate towards), family safety is what yanked me into a modern ride.
There's no need to shove a screen in a car, and complicate all the control systems with an integrated headunit if we could just throw our phone interface up on the windscreen.
Same exact functionality as a screen on the dash. Just use self control to limit your use to maps and music (ha cant trust the public to do that).
I’d rather a larger display for navigation than my phone, and a HUD for speed and basic info.
Like, let me see the next couple of miles on the big screen, and give me the basic lane indicator, turn, distance shit from the nav card on the HUD. The screens certainly have uses, rear view cameras being one of them, and navigation being the other. Music is best served via an iPod wheel under your left thumb on the wheel IMO. Because it’s a fuckin great UI and easy to understand.
I don’t need my HVAC on there. That needs to be three dials, or some equally simple control mechanism + an auto button.
1500m at 100km/hr is almost a full minute of time. That seems crazy to me that it would take someone more than a few seconds to turn on the AC in even the most convoluted infotainment system. Not disagreeing that screens suck and are definitely more dangerous than just having physical controls, but something seems off about that study if those are the numbers they came up with.
1500m at 100km/hr is almost a full minute of time. That seems crazy to me that it would take someone more than a few seconds to turn on the AC in even the most convoluted infotainment system. Not disagreeing that screens suck and are definitely more dangerous than just having physical controls, but something seems off about that study if those are the numbers they came up with.
>“New Euro NCAP tests due in 2026 will encourage manufacturers to use separate, physical controls for basic functions in an intuitive manner, limiting eyes-off-road time and therefore promoting safer driving.”
>[Under the new rating scheme, which is due to come into force from January 2026, manufacturers won’t be able to achieve the highest safety ratings if they don’t provide proper, physical switches for certain functions including indicators, hazard lights, sounding the horn, operating windscreen wipers and activating the eCall SOS function.](https://etsc.eu/cars-will-need-buttons-not-just-touchscreens-to-get-a-5-star-euro-ncap-safety-rating/)
That’s brilliant news! We all know that car manufacturers are only putting everything on a touchscreen because it’s cheaper and looks fancy, but objectively worse for safety and UX.
>“New Euro NCAP tests due in 2026 will encourage manufacturers to use separate, physical controls for basic functions in an intuitive manner, limiting eyes-off-road time and therefore promoting safer driving.”
>[Under the new rating scheme, which is due to come into force from January 2026, manufacturers won’t be able to achieve the highest safety ratings if they don’t provide proper, physical switches for certain functions including indicators, hazard lights, sounding the horn, operating windscreen wipers and activating the eCall SOS function.](https://etsc.eu/cars-will-need-buttons-not-just-touchscreens-to-get-a-5-star-euro-ncap-safety-rating/)
I actually don’t trust Apple to get instrument cluster right. This is time sensitive mission critical information display.
My experience with Apple’s mobile apps indicate that 1) there is not sufficient feedback from field testing to design 2) Apple tends to prioritize design aesthetics/coherence over utility.
Apple design philosophy may work well on devices where user has time luxury to fiddle around and discover their features, but it is the wrong approach for instrument gauges for moving vehicles.
If you’ve used apps like ForeFlight, you’ll know why Apple apps (Maps for example) is not done properly for this use case.
Have you seen modern digital instrument clusters? Personally I don't think a single one looks good outside of iDrive 7 and whatever Porsche has. I'd pay extra to have an Apple-designed UI.
But you get back to Apple will fail on functionality. Critical functionality of information that must be displayed quickly and easy to understand and read.
Apple time and time again choose form over functionality. In car instrument display functionality is the more important thing. Fail that it does not matter how pretty it looks.
Which critical information has Apple failed to display properly on CarPlay Ultra? From photos of it I can find online I don't see anything I'd object to.
You are looking at just photos. Apple has a long history of choosing form over functionality. They will tend to choose to look pretty over sacrificing it for critical info.
Critical info that the photos don’t show are warning lights, you don’t see the start up test display. You don’t see info for if the car in in AUX mode.
You don’t have info for display is emergency braking is activated or if TCS is activated. No check engine light.
How is tire pressure monitoring handled.
Speed, RPM easy. All the other little things are the critical things.
>I actually don’t trust Apple to get instrument cluster right. This is time sensitive mission critical information display.
Apple doesn't design the cluster, the OEM does.
CarPlay Ultra is a software system, it can't physically add HVAC controls. The cars are still built by automakers, who are responsible for the hardware.
Why should he be? As someone who previously worked on infotainment tech for Toyota, Carplay Ultra is the latest land grab from Apple. High end brands don't have to worry, but as he points out commercial customers of value brands like Ford may not appreciate the data sharing required. Not to mention Ford loses control of their own vehicle experience, which is important when the majority of owner complaints now about new cars are Carplay and Android Auto related.
One thing Rivian and Tesla get right: no Carplay. They own the vehicle experience completely. In 15 years, companies like Ford and Toyota will wish they had the software capability to do the same and reject it.
What?? Lmao CarPlay is a necessity in any car I buy. I would not even consider a car that doesn’t have CarPlay. Rivian and Tesla most def did not “get it right.” Why would you want an outdated system in 5 years when CarPlay will give you the most up to date experience at all times? Terrible take
Land grab by Apple, data sharing requirements, ceding control… isn’t Ford’s new infotainment system built on Android Automotive?
Android Auto is to Android Automotive as CarPlay is to CarPlay Ultra, at least that’s my understanding. Except one of those companies makes upwards of 75% of their money by monetizing customer data.
> Android Auto is to Android Automotive as CarPlay is to CarPlay Ultra, at least that’s my understanding.
Your understanding is incorrect. CPU is basically still screen mirroring, just more extensive. (That’s a simplified explanation, given some car controls are effectively copied from the phone to the car, so e.g. your gauges won’t be impacted if mirroring has issues.) There still has to be some underlying OEM car OS underpinning it. Meanwhile, Android Automotive *is* a car OS, and I would argue is the route Apple should have taken. As it is they are effectively ceding the automotive market to Google.
That’s not really how AAOS or CarPlay ultra works.
CarPlay ultra runs (mostly, it’s complicated) on the phone. Android Automotive OS runs on the car and is controlled by the manufacturer. They still can make decisions on what apps you get, what the interface looks like and does, and still can change code. Technically speaking, you (and they) don’t need to use Google apps and you don’t need to log in to use it.
This post tells me that manufacturers are really out of touch with what people want. I used to work for a rental car company and the number one thing customers would ask about at all levels is CarPlay/android audio and making sure their rental had it.
Rental cars are not car buying. Your customers were asking “can I get navigation and my music easily” but that doesn’t mean a car buyer needs CarPlay. Rivian, GM, and Tesla’s nav apps are wildly better than CarPlay’s Nav, especially for EV routing. It’s great for the very basics but falls apart fast when compared to actually great systems.
Having used all of these for navigation, albeit not for EV routing, I still prefer having my infotainment be an extension of my phone vs proprietary manufacturer software.
The ev routing is jaw dropping bad in CarPlay. It doesn’t tell you any useful info. Not what to charge to, not what you will arrive at without the charger, not what to stop charging at, nothing. Just adds a charging stop of its choice with no option to remove it.
I mean, how often does that come up? Most people with EV's charge at home at night and never need to find a charger in an area they're unfamiliar with. If you do frequent road trips and need to find fast chargers in unknown areas, then maybe I can see that as an advantage, but I doubt that describes even 5% of buyers.
Can't say much for Carplay, but when using Google Maps with an Android phone on Ford's EVs, they actually communicate the battery state of charge to GMaps and plan charger stops accordingly. This is bod standard Android Auto over a USB cable or wifi, not Android Automotive either
> someone who worked on infotainment tech for Toyota
Lmao with all due respect if there’s any company that *should* give up on infotainment and go all-in with CarPlay, it would be Toyota and all other Japanese OEMs. They are hopelessly behind in software and modern UI/UX.
Were you working out of the office on El Camino Real in Los Altos by any chance? If so I knew people there and the stories I heard was not good as they had to keep fighting the old dinosaurs in Aichi in convincing them that using tech from 2010 just no longer cut it.
The reason Lucid, Rivian and Tesla arguably pulled it off is because they invested heavily in their software teams and hired engineers from Silicon Valley with matching skills and compensation.
That’s just not in Toyota or Ford or any other legacy OEM’s DNA (hell, software engineer here in Japan is a looked down job with extremely mediocre pay).
The only companies I can see it pulling off from the West are the Silicon Valley EV companies and *maybe* Korean OEMs since software industry is pretty strong in SK.
Chinese OEMs will be the best positioned to create an integrated experience since many of them were tech companies to begin with. For example Huawei and Xiaomi are use their own desktop grade OS in their cars.
Political [discussion is prohibited](https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/wiki/politics). However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sure, I wouldn't want to hand over my dashboard to my phone like Carplay Ultra does, but you're outta your mind if you think manufacturers not supporting the standard AC/AA is a *good* thing.
Imagine using "worked on infotainment tech for Toyota" as a credibility builder...
Sorry, but Toyota infotainment varies from abysmal (Lexus joystick) to absolute mediocrity (Entune 3.0).
It's a shame you can't see that for more of a management problem rather than a person problem. All of these companies have skilled software developers, what differs is how they use them.
+1. I am not interested in manufacturer's locked-in software. Give me a standard double-DIN, or some kind of screen + replaceable computer arrangement, that I can run my own software on. Of course, we'll never get it in this tug-of-war for user data. Best we can get is that manufacturers keep shipping headunits with AA and CarPlay support
The one thing you can count on with OEM infotainment systems is that they will be abandonware instantly when you drive off the lot. That annoying issue it has? Yeah get used to it because it's probably never ever getting a patch.
Exactly my Chevys infotainment is stuck in 2016 but the second I plug my phone in I’ve got completely up to date features on the OEM display. I absolutely love that my car gets a yearly updates, keeping the infotainment looking modern curbs my desire for a new car.
Test drive a used one, and the integration is so good on those vehicles that its vastly superior to Carplay or android auto. I wouldn't consider any vehicle without android auto unless it was a Tesla.
Strong disagree. Using my android in my Tesla is a much worse experience than in my VW with Android auto. My music doesn't auto load/play, there's no way to access my playlists via the Tesla interface, the navigation system is less polished esp without premium connectivity, voice to text and voice calling is worse.
I don't understand how anyone could think it's better tbh.
As a Tesla driver why on earth would you want your music playing through Bluetooth when there are higher quality music options available built in? And what music service are you using that you can’t access your playlists from your screen???
The problem with the Tesla is all the glass creating reflections. It also doesn’t change the fact you can get a better overall interior experience for the money.
Obviously because I want to walk up to my car and continue listening to the playlist/audiobook/podcast/etc I’ve been listening to on my phone. How is that not the most basic of use cases?
My podcasts save listening spots between vehicle and phone. Music no, but the couple of taps to get it going for each use case are worth the upgrade in audio fidelity alone to me, but to each their own.
Of course I’d prefer the option for CarPlay/AA.
> why on earth would you want your music playing through Bluetooth
> the couple of taps to get it going for each use case are worth the upgrade in audio fidelity alone to me
Doesn't Apple Carplay work through Wifi? I'm finding conflicting things online, but worst case you have to use wired Carplay to get completely lossless audio.
Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that you aren't getting lossless audio through your Tesla built-in apps. Spotify, for example, literally just announced lossless audio on their platform (meaning they have literally never had it) a few weeks ago, and there's been no statement that that is ever coming to the Tesla app.
I'm glad that you're bending over backwards to justify why you like your car, but I hope you can understand any difference in audio quality you're hearing is placebo.
Not sure where you got that I like my car…just bought a Cadillac Vistiq and if I was a raging fanboy I’m sure I would’ve stayed with Tesla.
You can hear, and tests confirms that audio from a Tidal Hifi subscription is significantly higher quality. Same with my Cadillac, you need an Amazon Music subscription to get the highest quality streaming via Dolby Atmos.
But go off more about what you don’t know.
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because it contains a link to a delisted domain. This is almost always due to spam from the domain.
Please use a different source.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the dumbest argument possible. It works in my AA and it doesn't work on the inferior Tesla infotainment system. Why would I want to have a worse experience? Why should I have to change my app preference when it works everywhere else?
Because your unpopular music app is a much smaller percentage than the people that use for example Spotify. If you walk into a pizza shop and prefer anchovies on your pizza and get mad when they dont have anchovies on the menu whos in the wrong? Anchovies arent a very popular topping, 90% of people probably wouldnt order them if they were available so why spend money to stock them for the 10% that would. Its the same idea.
Tesla supports Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon music, and Youtube Music, according from data from 2024 that would be around 65% of the music streaming market, and in the US would be around over 90% of the marketshare, your app simply isnt popular enough for Tesla to care. Its just the way it is
In your example, Tesla is forcing me to eat anchovies though, if I want to use their system.
Just stop your fanboying. Nobody cares and you're not going to change my mind.
How are they forcing you to eat anchovies? You're the one coming in trying to purchase anchovies and they do not sell anchovies, the big 4 represent common pizza toppings like Pepperoni, Sausage, Peppers/Onions, Pineapple, Cheese, etc, Serving those toppings would satisfy 90% of pizza buyers, the people who want anchovies and other unpopular toppings represented by the last 10% on their pizza represent a much smaller piece of the market than they care to serve, its easier to just focus on the ones people really do want to buy.
I don't own a Tesla, if they made a real hatchback maybe i would consider one, ive rented them and liked them, im not a fanboy and dont care at all, im just giving a lesson on basic business and why whatever music app you use isnt represented on them.
Probably like Deezer or something nobody has every heard of, over 90% of the music market is supported by Tesla, they have Apple Music, Youtube Music, Spotify, and Amazon music, that right there represents over 90% of the North American market.
And what internet service will the car use? Unless apple figures out how to share your unlimited data with the car, built in car apps are dead in the water. I’m not paying for an internet subscription just for my car.
I agree. I much prefer android auto too the built in infotainment of my 23 Elantra N-line. Oddly enough i had to get an adapter to use it wireless because of a license agreement Hyundai has. The built in stuff is good don't get me wrong very easy to use but android auto is just more seamless.
I used to own a Model 3 and this is straight up false. Tesla’s software is good, but it’s not the same as CarPlay/AA. Maybe it has them now, but their maps didn’t used to have the ability to add waypoints. You also couldn’t use Waze if you preferred that to Google Maps.
The Spotify app was in every way worse than Spotify on your phone. For example, the shuffle feature just repeated a few songs. And if you aren’t a Spotify user, tough shit you’re stuck with just playing through Bluetooth now.
I also don’t remember their text to speech for text messages being that great either, though that was in 2019 so I could be remembering wrong.
They have Grok built into the cars now that is supposedly pretty good at doing anything that involves using a voice assistant. I havent been in a tesla since the Grok integration but apparently its vastly improved.
In our Equinox EV its terrible, the forced Google Assistant for everything sucks because it cannot understand a SJ/SEPA accent. Ill tell the map on there one thing and it will try to take me to a location 5 hours away that doesn't even sound remotely close. I can't even plug my phone into the car and use USB audio either, apparently it doesn't support android and the Bluetooth always has issues. I would be happy to use the built in Spotify app, but its not my car, its my parents, it wouldn't make sense for me to log into a car that isn't mine and i drive maybe once a month.
I mean I wouldn't consider a Tesla for other reasons as well, but I'm comfortable with CarPlay and love it. It's one of my favorite features on my car and I use it extensively. Everything just works.
I'm using it for Waze, Apple Music, Teams calls, navigation, texting, etc. Good to hear people like Tesla and Rivian also, but it's a situation where I love what I love.
Not considering a brand because they make the correct choose to not allow a third party to hijack the car is absurd and a sign that Apple has their hooks in you. You should not be okay with that.
Further, BMW's ConnectDrive Pro walks CarPlay. It's not even close. ConnectedDrive is specific to the brand, is what BMW intended the driver to experience relative to the car they daily and shows up with features that are not available in CarPlay.
You brought home a premium performance sedan then hung generic AF CarPlay on the UI. But cool, those times when your only choice is the shittiest econobox on the rental lot, it'll be handy to be familiar with CarPlay.
> you brought home a premium performance sedan
Nothing says premium like having to pay extra for a subscription to get the most out of it!
> ConnectedDrive is specific to the brand, is what BMW intended the driver to experience
BMW is certainly intending to experience more of your money
Right so, if your whole point is money, depending on model and market ConnectedDrive is included for the car's first 3 or 4 years. Even transfers to new owners. After that, it's $150 for an annual renewal for a suite of useful features. It is entirely optional.
Now consider your favorite 3rd party app. You buy a phone and then, pay a provider big money every single month.
The person I replied to has a car with its own SIM card, that for just $150 annually that breaks down to $12.50 per month...is providing a far greater value than your monthly cell phone service is giving you. I mean sure, you could dump it and save yourself money, but then your phone is only good on wi-fi. Hmm...how much is wi-fi costing you?
So look, if you want to make it about money...considering the operating costs you're running on the phone.
> a car with its own SIM card, that for just $150 annually that breaks down to $12.50 per month...is providing a far greater value than your monthly cell phone service is giving you
In what universe is remote AC and engine start more useful than an entire smartphone lmao
False.
I'm choosing an optional suite of useful apps that make daily use of the vehicle a more enjoyable experience. Remote start and pre-conditioning are but two of a dozen native features.
And notice I said greater value. But if you want to make it about what a smartphone can do that a car can not, well...I suppose there's pinch to zoom pics, silly selfies and gaming. Oh wait, cars are doing pics, silly selfies and gaming now. And ordering food. And showing account balances. And letting you know it's time for you to catch up with the world. ConnectedDrive is not an additional cost to the phone, it's not combined with the phone. It's nothing to do with the phone. It is completely stand alone. In a modern entry level car, a smartphone is redundant.
But look, stick with what you know. Be behind the curve while overpaying for service. Whatever works for you.
The thing is, your preference is by design. You didn't choose it. But you were conditioned to it.
But look, do what you're going to do. I'm simply saying, you brought home a premium performance sedan and stuck it with the exact same experience available in a shit-box rental.
Have you driven it? The CarPlay experience blends with everything else in the vehicle and is awesome. Want to mix Waze via CarPlay with Sirius XM from the car? Fine. It does absolutely everything I want it to do.
Your posts are just wild to me.
I've a '25 G26 running iDrive 8.5
ConnectedDrive walks CarPlay. Again, it's not even close. I get it though and have sad to you, Apple has their hooks in you. They literally have you not giving a shit about features you threw down good money for in order to sub CarPlay over iDrive's Live Cockpit that by the way, is costing you dollars per day in your payment.
Again, do what you're going to do. If you're good on how Apple has manipulated you, go ahead and stick with them from now until the day you're done driving.
I'm laughing my ass off at every comment.
There's no sub for CarPlay. My family has a sub for Apple Music that everyone uses and that's it. It existed before the car was a thing and it'll be around after. I'm simply using the features that I PREFER and you are telling me I am wrong about a subjective thing. It's nuts but hey, whatever.
Oh, I've driven them. It just was in the setting of driving a friend's Model S.
I could prob drive a Model 3 if I wanted. There are like 3-5 of every color / every model in my neighborhood. It's awful.
The manufacturer only allowing you to use their locked-in/locked down interface means I can’t use the car’s infotainment how I want, which is with integration to my Android/Apple device. I can use Waze on my phone (can’t do that in a Tesla without hacky workarounds), offline Spotify, my friend’s Tesla seems to have issues with RCS messaging… there are a lot of little things that add up to a lot, and a car that doesn’t have AA/CarPlay is off my radar entirely if I purchase a new(er) vehicle.
You were never going to be able to use your car’s infotainment “how you want;” you can’t jailbreak these things and run homebrew on them or whatever, because there are actual safety implications involved. It’s a choice between either CarPlay/AA or the factory system, which are _both_ locked down systems in a way. The difference is whether you value an Apple/Google experience that isn’t tightly bolted to the car, or a native experience that may lack some of the specific features you’re missing from your phone, but has better integration. Tesla is one of the few OEMs that _aren’t_ using cut-rate software engineering or third-party kits for their factory systems, with the result that theirs is one of the best out there. The difference is summed up in a CarWow review I once saw comparing the BMW i4 with a Model 3; for the i4, “the infotainment’s meh but you’ll probably be using CarPlay anyway,” while for the Model 3, “this thing doesn’t have CarPlay but, frankly, you don’t really need it b/c the infotainment does everything.”
People do hack the hell out of the Tesla infotainment, for what it's worth. Last I checked, a good number of Teslas were sent out with engineering sample AMD x86 chips that could run Windows if given the correct environment. I know that people have hacked their systems to run CarPlay, but it's silly to need to do that IMO. I know that they have a better infotainment system than most natively, and that it's substantially quicker, but it's just not for me. The Model Y is one of the best-selling cars worldwide, so clearly it is an issue for some like me, but not for millions.
Saying "Hey Siri/Hey Google, send a message to FriendWithAndroidPhone" is not seriously unsafe... RCS messaging is just texting, which you can do with voice activation.
I am not interested in any new car that doesn’t have CarPlay, and if I’m considering an older car, the first thing I’m modding on it is adding a big ole tablet to the dash with CarPlay enabled.
We’ve already figured out GPS/Mapping apps on our mobile devices and they work extremely well. Just give me that in my car, I don’t want to see Ford’s take on what GPS software should look like. I can almost guarantee it’s going to be way worse than what I’m used to.
Your thought process is so shortsighted. I had this exact conversation with my dad three weeks ago. You are taking a gasoline. Vehicles approach to a brand new mode of transportation. You’re not thinking through how vastly different modern zonal architected EVs compared to gasoline vehicles. Gone are the days of 5000 providers giving you 40,000 parts all on different software stacks review and Tesla have built their entire infrastructure on the car up from scratch with their own software. They’re able to improve and manage capabilities in real time with real time to telemetry. Their vehicles are cell phones that happen to have 1000 hp Apple CarPlay came around 15 years ago to make the gasoline car experience more connected Tesla and Rivian are building brand new car and modes of transportation and they’re making a software stack that follows that.
I wouldn't consider an EV at this time for my use anyways, so the discussion is just a thought exercise. It's cool that you're happy with your software stack.
And then we get people coming into dealerships complaining about CarPlay when everything else is fine.
Now imagine if it’s CarPlay Ultra that has more control over the car. Do we as an advisor tell the customer to take the car to the Genius Bar at the Apple Store to fix it?
If a manufacturer has no control over the software experience and there’s an issue, how do you go about fixing it?
Regular CarPlay is fine because it’s just infotainment but Ultra is a bit too far of a reach in my opinion.
dude. homebrewed infotainment SUCKS. no exceptions. some are less bad than others but i have never been even remotely impressed with the baked in software. android auto and carplay just work, and they run on your phone so the shitty little 10¢ processor running the screen in the car is a non factor.
you are severely out of touch if you think rivian and tesla not doing carplay is a good idea. i think it was gm that announced a while back that they were developing their own alternative to carplay and android auto, and people were PISSED.
Actually yes! When they planned to create a good infotainment system I did everything I could to make it as slow and kludgy as possible. Thwarting the work of hundreds of smart people was difficult, but I'm really proud I accomplished it! My hope is to ruin other programs in the future.
Actually yes! When they planned to create a good infotainment system I did everything I could to make it as slow and kludgy as possible. Thwarting the work of hundreds of smart people was difficult, but I'm really proud I accomplished it! My hope is to ruin other programs in the future.
Actually yes! When they planned to create a good infotainment system I did everything I could to make it as slow and kludgy as possible. Thwarting the work of hundreds of smart people was difficult, but I'm really proud I accomplished it! My hope is to ruin other programs in the future.
I disagree, no CarPlay is bad. I like CarPlay it’s the reason I bought a ford and not a Chevy. But I also don’t see the benefit of ultra from a user perspective.
Looking at the responses to your comment, it looks like people are still confused about *CarPlay Ultra* (the one taking over the instrument cluster and infotainment) vs *CarPlay* (the one taking over the infotainment only)
What a terrible branding Apple chose for the full fat version
I’ve owned 4 Siennas over 20 years. Their software looks like windows 95 with little improvement over time. I’ve used CarPlay since it’s been available.
Tesla absolutely does not get it right. I *loathe* Tesla’s navigation experience. CarPlay is far superior in this regard. I’d gladly pay Tesla $500 to get CarPlay access.
As a former Tesla owner who bought a Mach-e with CarPlay…this is absolutely bonkers lol.
The CarPlay ev routing experience is pure unadulterated trash.
This article isn't about Carplay for infotainment. This is about Carplay ultra which takes over every screen of the car, including the instrument cluster. Everytime one of these articles comes up, most of the comments think this about not implementing android auto/carplay. Its not. Its about Apple taking over every screen.
It's not right at all. It's another implementation for the same thing. It's another device that needs access to internet and therefore a subscription (or hotspot from my phone). I already have a device that fits my needs and has all of the apps I like to use installed, whether that's carplay or android auto. You can drive multiple cars from different brands and yet your infotainment system is always configured exactly how you like with no issues. There's a reason why a 80% of US buyers wouldn't consider a car without carplay.
>Not to mention Ford loses control of their own vehicle experience, which is **important when the majority of owner complaints now about new cars are Carplay and Android Auto related**.
For Ford? Yeah, I somehow doubt that. Poor build quality, recalls, dealership experience, etc. seem way more common to me than issues with infotainment related to AA or CarPlay.
99% of the people commenting here don't know the difference between Apple Carplay and Carplay Ultra (which is brand new and takes over many of the vehicle's traditional instrument display functions). Just a bunch of idiots yapping about something they have no clue about.
Why are we so worried about "Dead internet theory" when so many of the "real" commentors are dumb as shit and not worth reading anyways?
Every other post on this sub reddit is either the Ford CEO talking shit about something, or Ford announcing yet another recall. Seems he should focus on the not impressive parts of his business.
I don't get the hate. Anyone who design software can tell you that Carplay Ultra is a nightmare. If something goes wrong, they have zero control to fix it but at the same time they get the blame because customers aren't savvy enough to differentiate. Their phone works but their car doesn't it not Apple fault it be Ford.
> If something goes wrong, they have zero control to fix it but at the same time they get the blame because customers aren't savvy enough to differentiate.
Actual automotive engineer here. This is 100% true.
Yeah I feel like this is at the crux of the matter. OEMs are gonna get blamed when the system screws up, even though it's taking over all these functions from the OEM software.
It's a losing situation for them
Right and there another factor no one talking about: backup system. If carplay fails go back to oem, if oem sucks go to carplay. Carplay Ultra will be like when oem design software in the past: all or nothing. Sure it be more fluid than say the oem standalone software of the 2000s but long term support is critical.
Carplay ultra doesn't replace the OEM software, the vehicle will still fall back to OEM when needed and OEM apps can show through the carplay UI. For instance all critical vehicle warning lights are controlled and displayed by the OEM as a layer on top of carplay ultra. If your phone disconnects for any reason the car will still default back to OEM. Carplay Ultra isn't a replacement for OEM software, nor does it interfere with critical emergency notifications. It's simply just a customizable visual overlay that can be toggled on or off as you please.
Not true. First as Apple continues to land grab, Oems would cut costs and not develop their backup software so it be useless. It be like a phone without Google services today. You can use it but it very limited in what it can do. Second emergency software is not the same as user interface which is what I imply above. Carplay Ultra is technically a complete replacement as you mention but in reality it will be. That on paper and if Apple wins this they will just push farther and farther as no company on earth wouldn't. Calling this just a simple overlay is downsizing current and future problems. Under no circumstance is giving more control to tech companies a positive for automotive companies but they also don't have many options long term and this is coming from a major fan of carplay. Realistically you would hope for regulations to keep Apple and Google balance with Automakers but that not happening anytime soon.
> Oems would cut costs and not develop their backup software so it be useless
This is one of the worst takes I've ever seen on reddit. You legitimately think that a major auto manufacturer would build a car that does not work unless the driver has an iPhone? Are you trolling... ?
Every time a company has a chance to reduce costs they will, especially if everyone else is doing it with the pr of someone else fault. It why consulting is a global industry. Which btw they already do this. Software engineers in the automotive sector are known to be up there with game developers for being over paid because of the "prestige" of the organization they are working for. Just look at how bad pre carplay software use to be. It Apple whole excuse for Ultra 100% control. Now I argue they could build better software than everyone else with 100% control but should they be given keys to the kingdom of every car on the planet is a different story like it or not. That the key issue here. BTW I never said the car wouldnt work without a phone you were just making assumptions. If you read my previous comments it be more like an android without Google services. You can call text and that about it. No apps, no features, no support. That what this is offering emergency services and driveability. Nothing else. So please take the time to understand my comment before being overly dramatic
> Every time a company has a chance to reduce costs they will
That's such a ridiculous oversimplification I'm not sure where to begin. Okay, let's assume that's true. A company will always reduce costs wherever they can. Okay, so Toyota should shut down all their plants tomorrow and stop producing cars since making cars is a major cost for them. Right?
> Software engineers in the automotive sector are known to be up there with game developers for being over paid because of the "prestige" of the organization they are working for.
Huh? Why are you just making stuff up? Software engineers in the automotive industry actually earn less than average among other software engineers as far as I can tell. How are you quantifying "overpaid," and what should they be earning in your mind?
> BTW I never said the car wouldnt work without a phone you were just making assumptions
lol dude I didn't mean "not work" as in wouldn't even start, but the simple fact is that many car buyers don't have an iPhone or don't use Carplay for whatever reason. If a car sucks without Carplay, then it just sucks. I don't know why you're struggling to understand that.
Sorry my phone auto corrected. It was supposed to be "under" paid as companies like GM or Ford think having the name of a big auto on their resume will improve future jobs so their excuse to under pay. That why I mention the prestige aspect above. However my take above isn't an over simplification but a reality. No Toyota wouldn't shut down all factories because others are making cars so there is a loss for them.
Likewise if one company had Good backup software outside of carplay ultra they can shine above the rest. However like we seen time and time again, if the "industry" does something: rto mandates, inflation hikes, temporary shutdowns of factories, etc they will. Check any headline for GM and Ford will copy a few days later or vice versa. The auto companies aren't the only ones. Apple drop the headphone jack and everyone decide to make thinner phones and cut the jack. If you don't understand that copy effect your not seeing the bigger pictures. What your struggling to see is the ramifications of Apple and Google being given total control is more devastating long term regardless of the outcome today or tomorrow. It give the entire industry opportunity to cut costs by making their own software gutted to the bone and if an issue arrives it be wide spread like a plague. This doesn't excuse the auto companies lack of R&D for the last two decades but life not black and white.
> What your struggling to see is the ramifications of Apple and Google being given total control is more devastating long term regardless of the outcome today or tomorrow.
No, that's nonsense. You really aren't getting it. Let me say two things.
1) You're making a slippery slope fallacy. The problem with a slippery slope argument is that you aren't actually proving why one thing will lead to the other. For instance, the **exact same argument** you're making could be used to argue that CarPlay shouldn't have been allowed in cars at all. The exact same logic could support the argument that jails shouldn't exist. After all, if the government can jail you for something, then they can eventually jail you for anything. How about speeding? If you go 1 MPH over the limit, you'll get used to speeding and eventually you're going 150 MPH on the highway.
Do you see how utterly stupid slippery slope arguments are? The reason it's a fallacy is because you aren't actually making any argument. You're literally saying, "If A happens, then B *could* happen, therefore A will definitely lead to B."
2) Android doesn't have any equivalent, so your entire point is moot even if you were making a valid argument (which you aren't as a matter of basic logic).
Genuinely I don't think that you're going to understand, so I'm done responding.
Lmao you have more holes in your argument than cheese. The government has this fear. It why we have so many laws and restrictions in our freedoms. It why countries have court systems and laws written down because YES hosiery has sken that any human being given an inch will take a mile with power. The argument for why Carplay can't exist is pointless. It not mandatory and not critical versus what ultra can be. Carplay is a very powerful addition but ultimately as of now not needed as Tesla GM and Rivian are show casing. However if that were to change yes they be subject to scrunity. Android doesn't have the equivalent YET. What your failing to understand massively is life isn't stagnant. What works and safe tomorrow is not guaranteed. Your painfully assuming this and it has failed over and over again. I hope your not in a position of power because you be leading anyone you manage like the titanic ignoring ice caps. Ultimately though your ignorantly avoiding the main concern I mention. Why should they have this much control? No one ask them to do this nor have they shown benefit. Carplay and Android Auto were a solution to a broken industry. They solved the problem without any hurdles. They have perfect harmony with customers with Oem and Carplay as competition. Asking for complete control doesn't offer benefit to anyone but Apple. Why are you okay with this? What does Ultra solve for you long term that they couldn't before?
People made their mind up that its for greed and nothing else when GM dropped Carplay in order to do their own software.
Also helps that its a way you can virtue signal being anti-Tesla
People made their mind up that its for greed and nothing else when GM dropped Carplay in order to do their own software.
Also helps that its a way you can virtue signal being anti-Tesla
This has been a thing since Bluetooth. Apple breaks stuff all the time, and every update you could count on thousands of complaints to Auto OEMs saying they need to fix their cars because Apple is infallible. This is back when cars almost never even got updates, but they were confident it couldn't possibly be their phone that caused the issue.
As someone who deals with these customer complaints, Apple can go to hell.
I simultaneously agree and disagree. As someone with both gas and ev cars/trucks.
Apple car play in a gas vehicle is perfect nothing else should be made or done from a requirements and quality of life perspective. This is because gas stations are hyper ubiquitous. I never think about (range) in a gas vehicle.
In an EV…. No. A non carplay system like Teslas or Rivians is far superior. The seamless integration of the mapping technology with the vehicles underlying system’s infrastructure makes it very powerful on a road tripping and capabilities perspective. The opposite and highly frustrating experience to this is GMs no apple carplay combined with awful technology. They neither have a well integrated tech stack to make what you need happen in an ev happen like Rivian or Tesla, but also force you to use their awful system.
The middle road is the Silverado ev in my experience. You get CarPlay which-lets you have a better tech stack for most implementations but is missing many critical parts to the implementation because there is no way for apple to know your current SoC / efficiency, and charge capacity state. So you are fumbling between apps constantly figuring out what the truck should do for you… carplay ultra seems to fix that. But i will be hesitant until i see the integration. Im thinking it will mae manufacturers who adopt it lazy. On my rivian/Tesla i can do SO MUCH from the phone app and it works well like, look at the cameras live, check on the temp of the vehicle and ensure dog mode is on, set camping info, configure charging stats.
I see carplay ultra manufacturers saving money by doing nothing…
TLDR- Ranking for for car types.
ICE-
1. Carplay
2. Carplay
3. Just dont try we dont need your tech stack…. Auto maker
EV -
1. Fully dedicated/integrated and often updated and developed system. Tesla / Rivian (maybe lucid, i have no experience with them)
2. Carplay with the system if the manufacturer makes not great tech (Hyundai, VW, Ford, GM live here)
3. Legacy manufacturers forced implementation of crap that is just useless and annoying (Sierra EV…)
A Better Route Planner runs on CarPlay on my Mach E. I'm a _huge_ detractor of CarPlay, but the freedom to use non-OEM applications is a huge bonus to me.
(No pinch in/out – fix that, and I'll prefer CarPlay.)
This is well thought out. Tesla and Rivian are software first automakers that have the integration built-in from day 0. They don't need CarPlay although I do with they offered it in some aspects as an option.
Legacy automakers have had decades of experience making infotainment systems and they all suck. They need CarPlay Ultra because they've demonstrated over and over that they don't have the talent to develop software.
GM is a perfect example of this. They're removed CarPlay and released their own system that's abysmal.
Agreed. I’ve had CarPlay AA and now android automotive over the last 5 years and CarPlay is the most dogshit of them all.
Android automotive is better than auto in many ways and worse in others, but it’s pretty good still. I wish more apps were ported over through. I’m losing my YouTube music sub when it’s expired in the spring because there’s no atmos and having to use chrome to watch YouTube in the car is dumb because there’s no automotive app for some reason. Two things the OS developer somehow hasn’t integrated into their own damn system.
Disagree about GM. Currently driving a Blazer EV, and the infotainment system does not make me miss car play/AA at all. Having actual Google maps, with built-in ability to read state of charge and plot stops accordingly is better than a car play solution to me. Running that and YT music directly off of the car instead of my phone gives me everything id use car play/AA for anyway, but with better integrated features. I'm sure there's some people who'd use really specific/niche features of car play but for normies... The GM interface is better. I actually prefer it to the Tesla one, because the GM one uses Google Maps. But that's just personal preference.
This is r/cars. You can't say that anything from GM is good, you can't say that you're okay without CarPlay, and you certainly can't combine both and say that something from GM (technically Google + GM) is actually better than CarPlay.
But yeah, I've tried GM's system and it makes CarPlay look clunky
I drive a f150 lightning and my android auto can read the SOC and add charging stops for me. I carry my android auto settings with me. To me, a non android auto setup is a non starter.
I can't imagine what a built in OS can do for me that android auto cannot. Plus it is so much easier to upgrade my phone than to upgrade my infotainment.
Nobody should have any control over my dash other than my car’s ECU.
Next thing you know, you are gonna be watching ad’s on your dashboard before or have to pay for Apple subscription or else you only see a basic speedometer.
And if there is any liability, car manufacturer and apple will just point the finger at each other
Car manufacturers can't do software whatsoever so I don't believe this dumbass. Ford would never have software as good as Carplay or Android auto, he just wants the revenue.
I literally had to sell my 24 Mustang because the infotainment was so bad. No way to change any HVAC setting without taking your eyes off the road and tapping on the laggy touchscreen a minimum of 3 times. Stfu Ford, you don't know what you are talking about.
So glad my only Ford is truck. They must know "truck people" want big knobs and buttons. Work gloves? I don't know. Whatever the case, I'm glad they haven't gone full idiot.
Meanwhile, I'm holding onto my GTI forever, because VW *did* go full idiot on the generation after mine.
> Ford isn’t saying no to Apple, Farley said, it just wants some clarity about how CarPlay Ultra will interact with some of the core vehicle functions, including advanced features like hands-free driver assist.
> “How far do you want the Apple brand to go?” he asked “Do you want the Apple brand to start the car? Do you want the Apple brand to limit the speed? Do you want the Apple brand to limit access?”
My car has CarPlay and I love it for music and nav. He's being a bit dramatic, but I agree with his general point. IMO the great benefit of CarPlay is to let a tech company handle and update your infotainment, something that car companies are expectedly going to suck at. Expanding it towards actual car stuff seems like losing sight of the big picture.
I’m not impressed with any car companies interface ever. Fuck off with this shit. I’m never paying for a subscription for a bad satnav and media interface. Carplay / Android auto or I’m going back to mounting my phone on the dash.
To me, the best part of either of these technologies, is anyone can get in any car and know how to use the system. It's a standardization of the media component in cars. Whether you're 18 or 80...
Folks...let the car people do car things for their car.
The phone people are putting you into a generic, lowest common denominator user group that is clearly, by design, intended to keep you dependent on the phone for everything you do.
Utilize the features built specifically for car. You spent big money to bring the car home, it makes no sort of sense to saddle it with a phone app that again, by design, is meant to keep you reliant and dependent on the phone for everything you do.
They are not garbage.
There was a period were phone app developers were out ahead. Car manufacturers have closed that gap and in many cases, the native UI has surpassed the Android Auto, CarPlay, and Waze.
What's happened in the interim is users like you who can't be bothered to see what's been going on the last several model years and/or have cement in their brain that makes it difficult for them to learn a new system.
>They are not garbage.
Yes. They are. And here's why:
The single greatest thing about CarPlay is that it is the exact same in every vehicle I drive. Whether it's my Lexus IS500 or Mustang GT350, my wife's Highlander, or my son's 4Runner. I could go jump in a CarPlay equipped Volvo and the experience would be the same. No hunting for the Maps icon, Music, etc.
It's a unified experience.
It's a generic experience. Designed for the lowest common denominator in the group. Literally meant for any monkey to be able to make sense of and utilize.
I get it though. You don't want to be challenged or bothered to learn the native UI. You want the exact same experience in a premium luxury sedan as you do the shittiest rental on the lot.
If something that's the same in a dumpy shitbox as it is a Lexus makes you feel good about the experience, hey...stick with the generic, and dated, CarPlay app. Just be sure to continue to overlook that you included in the price of the vehicle is one of it's most expensive features that you dismiss because it's unique to the brand. You know, like the exterior, interior, and the performance and luxury dynamics you brought home.
Now that I think about it, why have two different types of cars from two different manufactures based on two different sides of the planet? I mean, you do want the same unified thing over and over, yea?
Why would I want to be "challenged" with a "native UI"? This is the dumbest mountain to die on...like...ever. This is one of those things I just want to to work. I get in. My phone hooks up through the wireless carplay adapter. Everything on the screen is in the same place, the same relative size, and no need to hunt for anything between vehicles. I can largely press what I want on the screen on instinct without looking.
There is absolutely NO comparison to driving dynamics, or the quality of the leather or anything else to the GUI for my infotainment system. Like. None.
Are you the kind of person that enjoys unboxing videos?
I did say I understand you prefer to not ever learn another UI again. You're locked in. Once was enough eh.
Which is great since having that same thing decade after decade until the day you're no longer driving is what you seek, so long as Apple is in business, it will be there.
Dude. Just no. I don't care about Apple only in that it just works. If Android was better, I would use Android.
I suppose you think Tesla moving the turn signals to capacitive touch and some wonky ass high beam and horn BUTTON on the steering wheel was a good idea? If not, I mean, come on man...wHy DonT yOU wANt To LEArN a NeW inTerFAce??
>They are not garbage.
Yes. They are. And here's why:
The single greatest thing about CarPlay is that it is the exact same in every vehicle I drive. Whether it's my Lexus IS500 or Mustang GT350, my wife's Highlander, or my son's 4Runner. I could go jump in a CarPlay equipped Volvo and the experience would be the same. No hunting for the Maps icon, Music, etc.
It's a unified experience.
I've yet to see a native UI that has surpassed phone apps. Most are still hot garbage. If their UI is at all difficult to learn - it's a failure.
Car manufacturers only want users back on their native UI so they can collect and sell user data. CarPlay (Apple) doesn't sell data. Why would any consumer want that?
Garbage or not, the reason why AA and CarPlay exist is because OEMs dropped the ball for many years. Now they want the trust back, but it doesn't seem like many consumers are willing to go back to the default infotainment experience.
Aye. They didn't see the writing on the wall. That happened.
That however does not alter the fact that what's occurred in that time is nothing short of consumer manipulation.
I get it. I've been there. Smart phone manufacturers make it very simple to incorporate their devices in all aspect of the consumer's life. It's a highly effective, insidious manipulation of the consumer that, if one chooses, is not all the difficult to free oneself of. Bonus, reclaiming your brain has progressive, ancillary benefits.
All you need to do is buy a brand new car and then you can finally have built in features that look and work almost as well as 10 year old CarPlay
Amazing
I might be in the minority on this sub but I could care less about CarPlay. I rarely use it in my BMW since I primarily listen to XM radio or Spotify, which the app is on the infotainment. The only thing that is somewhat useful is when I get a text notification since my phone is usually in my pocket but even that is hit or miss. The most annoying thing about it though is say I’m sitting in line at the drive-thru and pull up Instagram or Reddit. It automatically takes over the radio and plays whatever is on my phone whether that be an ad or a post with video or music. I could not stand the constant battle with CarPlay taking over and the constant back and forth so I just switched to straight Bluetooth and haven’t missed CarPlay one bit. It also doesn’t take up the entire screen and just doesn’t look as good as the factory infotainment. CarPlay looks especially bad on my wife’s Cadillac.
I can count on one hand how many times I've used the built in navigation and features on my Mustang Mach-E.
I'd say those in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones, but Ford infotainment is literally homeless.
Well, the world isn’t impressed with Jim Farley as a CEO. The guy who starts a lot, but never finishes something. The idiot is basically spending billions on busywork. He should have been fired a while ago. 100+ recalls this year, and the guy is still in charge? Come on!
The assumption here being that Apple is better at design therefore they will make a better instrument cluster and general UX.
However, evidence to the contrary. Apple is super bad at interface design. CarPlay is convenient for reasons somewhat despite its simplistic interface design.
I would definitely not want Alan Dye Apple design putting their hands on my instrument cluster.
Yeah, especially Liquid Glass has a lot of usability and stability complaints so far.
Car instrument clusters need to be stable. Whatever stability issues that's going on with the UI right now in the current "stable" release of iOS/iPadOS/macOS wouldn't be acceptable in safety critical places like a car instrument cluster.
Yea. Also Apple is notoriously bad at usability and information design these days. iOS 7 was a step back from what came before and has only modestly improved over the years. iOS 26 was another step back.
I’m pretty confident that Apple will eventually sort out the stability and performance of Liquid Glass. However, the company no longer seems to possess talent or leadership that understands the science of interface usability and information design. It really, really shows and it makes them a poor fit for critical car interfaces.
TBH I'm not super impressed either. I haven't seen a good use case where it is significantly better for gauges. You can already put nav into the dash/hud on regular old carplay, which is the main reason I'd want more integration. I can see song titles and art and control apple music with the current setup.
I wouldn't mind more customization, but I haven't seen that demonstrated and apple isn't exactly known for allowing a lot of customization. If there were a gauge designer app that I could upload gauge faces and reskin dial indicators, etc if might be cool. Some of the android gauge replacements allow you to do that.
I am someone who won’t even consider a car without ‘CarPlay’, however I’m not terribly interested in ‘CarPlay ultra’.
I want my phone controlling my music and gps and showing me my calls/messages. But otherwise I’m good.
OEMs suck at infotainment but usually do really well at dashboards and vehicle controls. I don’t need the two competing
Based on the reviews from Aaron Martin, neither am I. It's slow, buggy, difficult to connect, and frankly Apple doesn't need to run my car and get their hands on all my tellemaric data. Just show me maps and Spotify.
Can we ban people who comment without knowing that carplay and carplay ultra are two different things? So next time they learn to read before commenting.
I for one have no interest in car play in general. A phone mount works for me, and I’m odd and love old single DIN headunits.
However, if and when I have to have more tech in my car I really would prefer it if it’s built by the guys that make my phone, and not by legacy OEM’s.
am I the only one who doesn't get the hype around Apple CarPlay and Android Auto? We already spend so much time glued to our phone screens and UIs,, why bring that into the car? I’ve never bothered connecting my phone to my car’s system. Honestly, I kinda love the old-school, clunky car displays with minimal clutter. It’s a refreshing break from the tech I’m staring at all day. Anyone else feel the same or am I just stuck in the past or getting old ? 😅
The issue is that the replacement for Apple CarPlay isn’t a very clean and minimal layout with physical buttons. The alternative is a worse screen with a worse UI. Your point is absolutely valid, but I don’t think it’s very relevant when comparing console displays of post 2020 vehicles between each other.
It also introduces yet another external software silo that the vehicle’s systems will need to learn to communicate with. Jim Farley has been especially vocal about the challenges of having so many different suppliers and components that all need to work together seamlessly. When systems like the suspension and engine management have to interact but are developed by entirely different companies it increases the risk of integration issues and system failures.
Why is there so much controversy over putting GPS on your screen and playing Audible or Spotify over your speakers? This all seems like solutions in search of problems.
CarPlay/Adroid Auto are very useful especially since 99% of cars infotainments are bad.
Now if a manufacturer actually put some efforts and make it good I can live without carplay bur right now aside from Tesla no brand has a decent enough infotainment.
They’re just forcing their own systems into cars. People like Apple CarPlay. They’re familiar with it by now, but like we see with other companies they’re determined to push them out of their cars
373 Comments
woodsides@reddit
737northfield@reddit
tylerderped@reddit
737northfield@reddit
thekhaos@reddit
intern_steve@reddit
Hopeful-Ad-5917@reddit
hutacars@reddit
Apical-Meristem@reddit
intern_steve@reddit
hutacars@reddit
intern_steve@reddit
Apical-Meristem@reddit
opeth10657@reddit
opeth10657@reddit
Zelderian@reddit
hutacars@reddit
Zelderian@reddit
probablyhrenrai@reddit
hutacars@reddit
hutacars@reddit
TurtleCrusher@reddit
DisasterEquivalent@reddit
budgefrankly@reddit
mkbcity@reddit
budgefrankly@reddit
Meinredditname@reddit
Jkcanwien@reddit
737northfield@reddit
c0reM@reddit
Snow_source@reddit
SuperConfused@reddit
SuperConfused@reddit
hutacars@reddit
ManufacturerBest2758@reddit
Stong-and-Silent@reddit
Jkcanwien@reddit
AllGravyNoBiscuits@reddit
redditproha@reddit
737northfield@reddit
VirtueSignalLost@reddit
rkhan7862@reddit
chippinganimal@reddit
Jakka_Jakka@reddit
zman0900@reddit
LeonMust@reddit
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
AutoModerator@reddit
MembershipNo2077@reddit
hutacars@reddit
MembershipNo2077@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
SinistralGuy@reddit
hutacars@reddit
Forrest319@reddit
hutacars@reddit
3Mtibor@reddit
hutacars@reddit
MINKIN2@reddit
hutacars@reddit
rokatoro@reddit
hutacars@reddit
SinistralGuy@reddit
nathanlanza@reddit
nathanlanza@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
LinuxViki@reddit
Alf_4_Prez@reddit
HerefortheTuna@reddit
tuppenyturtle@reddit
HerefortheTuna@reddit
its_an_armoire@reddit
HerefortheTuna@reddit
delebojr@reddit
ggtsu_00@reddit
ggtsu_00@reddit
ggtsu_00@reddit
ggtsu_00@reddit
ggtsu_00@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
EloeOmoe@reddit
WhipTheLlama@reddit
ConfusedTapeworm@reddit
Il_Tene@reddit
gumol@reddit
theknyte@reddit
yourlocalFSDO@reddit
3141592652@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
3141592652@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
3141592652@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
3141592652@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
3141592652@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
theknyte@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
gumol@reddit
oskanta@reddit
3141592652@reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
3141592652@reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
Brenner14@reddit
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
gumol@reddit
Noobasdfjkl@reddit
737northfield@reddit
caller-number-four@reddit
737northfield@reddit
oskanta@reddit
adjudicator@reddit
737northfield@reddit
OldSchoolSpyMain@reddit
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Erigion@reddit
hi_im_bored13@reddit
timelessblur@reddit
azurite--@reddit
dynesor@reddit
owleaf@reddit
NYNMx2021@reddit
lowstrife@reddit
dynesor@reddit
lowstrife@reddit
woodsides@reddit
Herbstein@reddit
woodsides@reddit
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Alpine_Exchange_36@reddit
SimonGray653@reddit
caustictoast@reddit
lostboyz@reddit
TenguBlade@reddit
blamethenewguy@reddit
EveryRedditorSucks@reddit
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
metengrinwi@reddit
Atfhatesdogs@reddit
bockers007@reddit
torquesteer@reddit
airvbkj5@reddit
torquesteer@reddit
airvbkj5@reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
Responsible-Meringue@reddit
System0verlord@reddit
Responsible-Meringue@reddit
System0verlord@reddit
Responsible-Meringue@reddit
System0verlord@reddit
dry_lube@reddit
dry_lube@reddit
System0verlord@reddit
Car-face@reddit
Relay_Slide@reddit
Car-face@reddit
Skeptical0ptimist@reddit
hbs18@reddit
timelessblur@reddit
hbs18@reddit
timelessblur@reddit
Seref15@reddit
Seref15@reddit
Captain_Alaska@reddit
keithplacer@reddit
redditproha@reddit
PushaTeee@reddit
TheAppropriateBoop@reddit
massive_succ@reddit
KpServices@reddit
ca2mt@reddit
hutacars@reddit
ca2mt@reddit
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
TruthThruAcoustics@reddit
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
venice_mcgangbang@reddit
TruthThruAcoustics@reddit
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
Realistic_Village184@reddit
Clover-kun@reddit
cookingboy@reddit
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
AutoModerator@reddit
nd4spd1919@reddit
SireEvalish@reddit
flatpetey@reddit
Simon676@reddit
BigConscience728@reddit
flatpetey@reddit
brentsg@reddit
an_angry_Moose@reddit
ygguana@reddit
saarlac@reddit
LifeWithAdd@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
doodool_talaa@reddit
almosttan@reddit
Educational_Fox6899@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Educational_Fox6899@reddit
anonynown@reddit
almosttan@reddit
Realistic_Village184@reddit
almosttan@reddit
Realistic_Village184@reddit
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
AutoModerator@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
doodool_talaa@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
doodool_talaa@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
doodool_talaa@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
Picov-Andropov@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
tylerderped@reddit
THEREALRATMAN@reddit
fantaribo@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
-MGX-JackieChamp13@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
enfuego138@reddit
almosttan@reddit
Lower_Kick268@reddit
brentsg@reddit
kon---@reddit
Spyzilla@reddit
kon---@reddit
Spyzilla@reddit
kon---@reddit
Spyzilla@reddit
brentsg@reddit
kon---@reddit
brentsg@reddit
kon---@reddit
brentsg@reddit
Shontzy@reddit
brentsg@reddit
TomNooksRepoMan@reddit
Independent-End-2443@reddit
TomNooksRepoMan@reddit
jesusrambo@reddit
TomNooksRepoMan@reddit
avoidhugeships@reddit
THALANDMAN@reddit
Big_Smooth_CO@reddit
aliendepict@reddit
brentsg@reddit
RedYourDead@reddit
Mr__Snek@reddit
redditproha@reddit
massive_succ@reddit
massive_succ@reddit
massive_succ@reddit
caustictoast@reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
kirks2@reddit
MangoAtrocity@reddit
Agloe_Dreams@reddit
MangoAtrocity@reddit
roburrito@reddit
Upbeat-Armadillo1756@reddit
mikolv2@reddit
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Cool-Block-6451@reddit
EngagedGroomsPodcast@reddit
butkusrules@reddit
maxxor6868@reddit
SireEvalish@reddit
costafilh0@reddit
beermit@reddit
maxxor6868@reddit
EnesEffUU@reddit
maxxor6868@reddit
Realistic_Village184@reddit
maxxor6868@reddit
Realistic_Village184@reddit
maxxor6868@reddit
Realistic_Village184@reddit
maxxor6868@reddit
bullet50000@reddit
bullet50000@reddit
lostboyz@reddit
aliendepict@reddit
balthisar@reddit
FURKADURK@reddit
blabus@reddit
Clover-kun@reddit
FURKADURK@reddit
redditproha@reddit
BigConscience728@reddit
Parrelium@reddit
WhateverItTakes117@reddit
BigConscience728@reddit
delebojr@reddit
Icy-Comfortable-554@reddit
airvbkj5@reddit
Hywelthehorrible@reddit
Short-Belt-1477@reddit
rkhan7862@reddit
Short-Belt-1477@reddit
zipzoomramblafloon@reddit
nonaveris@reddit
Mackinnon29E@reddit
sl0wjim@reddit
withoutapaddle@reddit
WheelWhiffCelly@reddit
korko@reddit
waftedfart@reddit
adudeguyman@reddit
adudeguyman@reddit
adudeguyman@reddit
adudeguyman@reddit
costafilh0@reddit
kon---@reddit
Spyzilla@reddit
kon---@reddit
coastal_ghost08@reddit
kon---@reddit
coastal_ghost08@reddit
kon---@reddit
coastal_ghost08@reddit
coastal_ghost08@reddit
blamethenewguy@reddit
Shmokesshweed@reddit
kon---@reddit
Spyzilla@reddit
SteakConnoisseur@reddit
Omnivirus@reddit
simnie69@reddit
ottrocity@reddit
Tegumentario@reddit
Astramael@reddit
testthrowawayzz@reddit
Astramael@reddit
Wile-E-Coyoteee@reddit
Prize-Meat7508@reddit
Silkies4life@reddit
hawksdiesel@reddit
iroll20s@reddit
90Carat@reddit
dont_wear_a_C@reddit
Unfriendly_Giraffe@reddit
EnthusiasmOnly22@reddit
rkhan7862@reddit
NickPookie93@reddit
nbaumg@reddit
ShadowGLI@reddit
DaveCootchie@reddit
Speeff@reddit
Il_Tene@reddit
PaulaDeen21@reddit
gabebps@reddit
Common_Ad_2987@reddit
theSambar@reddit
OpenlyBiCoastal@reddit
AndreLeGeant88@reddit
iMattist@reddit
Alpine_Exchange_36@reddit