I wouldn't say there declining we'll not in my area but certainly the state of riding I've witnessed recently has seriously declined to the point that I'd say a hell of a lot of the riders don't deserve to have a license and are a disgrace to biker community. I've held a full license for over 30 years and I'm rapidly losing sympathy for the idiots that crash and loose their lives due to passing in stupid places etc, prime example was in the Yorkshire dales last weekend I my car and on numerous occasions was overtaken approaching completely blind corner's don't get what they think their achieving by risking everything
There are many extenuating circumstances but I think essentially like most things in life, if it’s not something you are passionate about then you won’t do it. I grew up around bikes and can’t imagine not having one.
Safety has always been a factor so I don't think that's it. Same for weather.
The move from the single test to the A1/A2/A system has got a lot to answer for in my opinion. In days of yore, you got a cheap bike at 17 and could pass your test whenever and ride a ~50 bhp bike for two years, then you automatically upgraded to having no restrictions.
Now even if you do a CBT, a theory test, and TWO practical tests at 18 years of age you are limited to 12 horsepower and have to do two more tests later to ride a faster bike. Four more if you're not careful.
Nobody can be arsed with it or can afford all these tests. By the time they're old & rich enough, they've been working and can run a car. A motorbike as cheap transportation for young people doesn't make sense any more, and by the DAS age of 24 you don't want to give up a car in the winter. Illegal e-bikes are taking the pizza delivery niche, so now motorbikes are basically only a hobby, and they're an expensive one.
You can ride as perfect as the highway code suggests but still get knocked off because someone isn't putting in the effort required to operate a two ton SUV.
It's (IMO) also far harder to obtain a full bike license here compared to sitting one driving test and never needing to look back.
People I worked with before I retired who once rode motorcycles until they crashed:
A wheelchair bound guy with one arm and one leg.
Another wheelchair user with no feeling below the waist and had to have a catheter.
A woman who could not walk more than 50 metres.
A guy who retired, bought a bike with his pension and was killed 18 months later.
A young guy who lost his foot.
It's not necessarily their fault, but you are very vulnerable on a bike.
I know a few bike riders... all still alive but as you say, fair few injuries amongst them. Aunty used to ride pillion with my uncle but they stopped after he stacked it on a roundabout. Wasn't going fast, wasn't messing about, it was just a bit greasy and down they went. Another friend doesn't ride anymore, walks with a limp, has significant amount of muscle removed from lower leg after an accident (not their fault either). You are very vulnerable on a bike and whether its completely your fault or you're just in the wrong place, wrong time, you are way more likely to be coming off significantly worse.
I do still see a lot of folk riding about on those kind of Dakar/Adverture looking bikes rather than crotch rockets these days though and its very very rare to see people riding in any other manner than sedately.
I learned to ride motorcycles in the country where the biggest danger was my own stupidity.
Then I moved to the city, and the biggest danger was everyone else around me.
I used to ride to university and there were so many times that I got home and told my girlfriend how many time I almost crashed/died because of motorists who pulled out in front of me, or didn't stop at Stop signs, or tried to merge into the side of me ...
I eventually sold the motorcycle and never looked back.
A few years ago I did dream about getting a nice BMW bike and touring around Europe when I retired. I'm sure that would be great, but being crippled for life is also not great.
It's about the same danger as riding a horse in the UK, the first reply you get from telling people your going horse riding isn't "oh my god my mates cousin died on one!" it's weird.
There was a government adviser a few years back who got sacked for saying taking ecstacy was statistically safer than riding a horse.
Thing is, he was right.
You can check the accident figures on the .gov site, or there have been studies done like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39879267/#:\~:text=4.98%25%2C%20p%20%3C%20.,001).
Accidents per hour riding, show horse riding is more dangerous.
I’m missing a leg due to a motorcycle accident that happened it 2003. A couple of my mates stopped riding but I was back on a bike within a few weeks of getting out of hospital. I’ve done track days in several different countries and ridden throughout Europe.
Having said that, I’m finding I ride less and less these days. The standard of driving, the amount of traffic, and the worrying number of times I can smell weed coming from cars for a few miles means that my motorcycles are no longer a daily commuting tool and more of an occasional stress relief.
I’ve always said there are two types of bikers, those that know they’ll likely crash and ride despite the risks and those that convince themselves that it’ll never happen to them who only ride until they’re no longer able to trick themselves.
They are definitely not expensive lol.
Mine is £200 a year to insure, £45 to tax and I can fill the tank with £25. It cost me £3000 about 12 years ago and it’s never broken down, I’ve spent maintenance money.
On top of that it’s got super car level speed. You’d need so spend upwards of 100k to get anywhere near it.
Probably the same thing that would happen if someone pulled out on you.
I ride carefully, I’ve been pulled out on to the point my car wouldn’t have stopped but my bike did.
Taycan Turbo S can be had for £50k and is faster than most motorcycles in most conditions with the least amount of skill required. Audi R8 V10 Plus can be had for similar. The days of motorcycles being exceptionally fast on the road are long gone
Bikes are cheap to maintain if you keep the mileage down. Start pumping the mileage and you're during balve clearance checks, chains and sprockets, not to mention wearing tyres square.
And if you spent £50K on a bike you'd be going a hell of a lot faster than your Taycan and Audi R8, first one that comes to mind is the Kawasaki Ninja H2R which can get over 200 mph.
How much is a back tyre? How likely are you to die if it all goes tits up? What about the people that get to peel you off the road when you are doing those supercar speeds?
Tell me that when it is pissing it down and blowing a gale. Tell me the same when you disappear in a vehicle's blind spot and they wipe you out because they have no idea you are there.
Firstly, that's why I said it depends on the journey.
Secondly, I've commuted all year round and was fine with the bad weather.
Thirdly, a competent rider won't disappear in someone's blind spot.
You can use it if the weather changes. Lots of people commute by bike. Lots of people commute by bike unless they don't fancy it and use a car if public transport.
Bikes are brilliant. I used to commute 32 miles. In the car it would take between 50 and 90 minutes, I'd have to park 10 minutes walk up the road and pay a fiver a day for the privilege. On the bike it would always take 45 minutes and I could park for free outside the office.
Plus motorcycle mindfulness is a wonderful thing.
I first went on a motorbike when I was 7, I am now 51. I used to think like you too. Now I see the reality of the situation.
The biggest problem with bikes is the other road users. My daughter is 20 and rides every day, it scares the shit out of me every time.
Regardless of what you say, they are dangerous.
If you've ridden for any length of time you'll be fully aware how easy it is to predict what other drivers are going to do, even the weird stuff.
Start from that point and begin mitigating moves, put yourself in a position to negate the danger.
You've obviously never been on a bike. I commuted for 10 years in all weathers and it was about once every 6 weeks or so that a car deliberately tried to inconvenience/kill me. Most of the time during traffic jams when I was filtering but sometimes just random pricks with a point to prove (especially if your a learner biker.)
Many drivers see bikers as 'bad' and not human and therefore totally acceptable to use a tonne of metal to hit them.
Nost drivers (and probably you too then) dont see bikers as human and fair game to use a car as a weapon.
Also does that attitude apply to someone in a small hatchback vs an SUV. Shpuld we all just be driving the biggest tank we can afford ?
Last time I checked you cannot fly off a car unless a seatbelt isn’t on. Tin foil hat time- who doesn’t see bikers as people? I just think they risk their lives. Other comments seem to agree.
Not if you live in London they aren't. Twice as quick or more than any other mode of transport, maybe a bicycle might get close if you're really central and the rider is in good shape but nothing else is close. Compared to public transport it's like being able to teleport.
I do 8000 miles a year on a bike in London. Travel from Chertsey to the City costs me £40 per week marginal. One hour door to door. What other method of transport gives me that timing and that cost? I could live without my car - although I love it, but I couldn't live without my bike.
I was a motorcycle courier for about 4yrs 25 yrs ago. Some of the fleet never used to crash. A lot of riders got invalided out or worse in 6 months. A lot of focus is put on really bad car drivers not paying attention etc, but in truth most motorcycle accidents, even if not the fault of the rider, could have been avoided by the rider. Note I say most. Sometimes your card is marked. Also true of cycling, which is way more dangerous than people think.
The barriers to entry are far higher than they used to be. Ludicrously complicated and expensive licensing system, insurance is crazy money anywhere densely populated thanks largely to how often bikes get nicked - you have to dedicate a lot of money and time these days. I got my licence north of thirty years ago and it didn't used to be that hard.
1. Cars have became more affordable. Especially with modern finance packages. Decades ago, motorbikes (as a daily driver) were bought by those who couldn’t afford cars.
2. What has put me off buying a motorbike as a weekend toy, is the danger. I simply don’t trust other road users and have been cut up even when in my car with crumple zones and airbags.
3. I was surprised to hear that the NCB on my car insurance won’t count on a motorbike, I’d have to pay even more for insurance and then the cost of the bike licence, buying a helmet and leathers.
Today I have no reason not to have a car and it’s far more practical and comfortable in winter.
I wasn’t aware of the decline? Bikes were my main transport from 16 to 32. Personally I went through divorce and had to prioritise a car for the kids at weekends. Now I have a wife who’s not enthusiastic about me on a bike and a disabled child. I know I’m more vulnerable on a bike and he would never understand why I’m not around if the worst happens. But most people I rode with either still ride, getting back into it or at least looking at bikes and considering saving up.
Amalgamation of factors.
I always saw owning a motorbike as a hobby first, transport second.
I'd wager cost of living drastically increasing is also making people think twice about buying a ~~death trap~~ bike.
My first 'big' bike was a Honda NC700X. It cost me £5k new. I used it every day for commuting for 13 years. It doesn't have to be expensive to buy or run. I paid £99/yr for insurance and over those 13 years it's saved me, in fuel costs alone, its purchase price and even taking that into account it still comes out with a positive saving.
A lot of modern new bikes are insane prices, so always look at the 2nd user market. ex PCP bikes with no real miles on them are a bargain.
Look at the price of bikes. You can get a car for the same price and carry your mates at the same time.
I'm still riding, but I understand why people would be put off. I'm not stopping until I absolutely have to. I commute every day and it's the best part for me.
I really *really* want a motorcycle, but I know as soon as I get one it'll get nicked because of where I live.
It's a hobby for privileged people (the extra-privileged people get their pilots license and a light aircraft.)
I need to be able to afford somewhere to store the bike first, and that would cost considerably more than a 125.
MONEY.
It cost me over £1000 in tests alone to get my full license. Never totted up the lessons. God knows how much the lessons cost now. I lost count of the amount of lifelong rider oldies who said to me 'I started with a bag of parts and my car license if i had to do all that. I wouldn't have bothered'. Add on top of that cost of living and price of bikes and you get your answer.
My partner was a Bike salesman for many years and the average first time rider (they were told) was 52. Since it was a Triumph garage you could definitely tell.
I loved my bikes when I was younger, but too many close shaves, the experience of age and the general standard of driving these days has put me off. Can’t see myself getting on a bike again, mores the pity.
I'm a fairweather rider. Nowadays I'm lucky if I do 1k per year. I used to do 3-4k per year, also did trackdays and was obsessed.
For me, the weather each year appears to be getting worse. I can't be bothered to ride in the rain. Roads are busier, standard of driving seems to be getting worse. I got back into cars and cycling. I still watch all the racing and still have my bike, but it is up for sale!
The quality of the roads.
I accept the risk of riding a bike, I can ride sensibly, I can assume all car drivers are blind idiots who cant see a 6ft bloke wearing high viz on a motorcycle with its lights on (because apparently most drives actually are).....and ride accordingly.
(though there is nothing you can do about the type of drivers who have 1) hit me when I was stationary at a pedestrian crossing and they just sideswiped me as they shot across it almost taking out 3 pedestrians. 2) backed into me in a car park when they just slammed the brakes on in an empty aisle and just started reversing into the motorcycle parking area as I was getting on my bike, and 3) decided that after flashing me past on a single track road they would wait to pull out of the passing place and drive straight into me as I approached them, then drive off without checking I was, you know, alive....)
But I cant do fuck all about coming round a corner to find a massive pothole right in the middle of the carriageway that will throw me off, or tip me under the wheels of a lorry.
I used to love my bike. just me, and the road, enjoying the scenery, taking it on touring holidays, slipping through traffic, in most weathers and seasons....but it came to the point where I was just constantly having to concentrate to spot the dangerous pot hole, I was no longer enjoying it.
People are realising how dangerous it is and I reckon the motorcycling culture has just been dying down in general as generations move on. I feel like bike enthusiasts aren’t nearly as prevalent as they were a few decades ago
In my case too many distractions for drivers on the road and in the car. Drivers too busy looking for cameras or restrictions rather than smaller road users. Too many blind spots on modern cars. Mobility now reserved for bus pass, small car and e-bike on cycle routes depending on availability and weather.
The cost of motorbikes hardly seems worth in comparison to the cost of a car. Besides better MPG, motorbikes have expensive insurance, high risk of theft, higher additional cost for gear (PPE and security) which is also inconvenient, higher risk of fatal crashes, and cannot carry more than one passenger.
E-bikes have a much lower barrier of entry whilst meeting most of the needs of the youth nowadays, which is also resulting in them not wanting to get a motorcycle license.
In London bikes can park for free or nearly free, no congestion charge, no ULEZ and you can travel from the M25 in the West to the City in an hour. No car can do that. E-bikes sure - but given nor requirement for training etc I think we will see quite a lot of injuries going forward.
The training course costs are also brutal for motorcycles these days. Your CBT isn't going to be too dear, but your A1, A2, and A (if you go up the progressive path) is going to be hundreds if not thousands of pounds a go.
I agree, most people don’t have the upfront cash to pay for the A licenses nowadays, but they can afford the pay per lesson payment model for getting a car driving license.
The value of the car licence is greater. You are able to drive commercial, agricultural etc. So it's worth the expense. Bikes are mostly for fun, some commute but probably the majority of those have a car too, or take public transport when it's grim.
Ontop of what everyone has said about saftey and weather, the fact young people able to buy houses means they are also less likely to have a garage to store the bike, or disposable income to have a bike as a toy.
Combine that with the fact you can't go and buy the bike you actually want due to licensing and it means there isn't a reason for most young people to get a bike.
I’d say less people interested in motors in General tbh. I’m 18 and most people I speak to my age haven’t got a clue/ don’t want to have a clue when I try to help with their cars. Yes I have a few mates who love them as much as i, but it just isn’t as popular as it once was unfortunately.
Not wanting to die might be a worry for many. I lost a cousin to a motorbike accident that, in a car, would have been a sprained neck and my dad had such a close call years ago that he had to stop at the roadside to cry.
That said, I feel like this summer I saw more people on motorbikes than before. And they're definitely still pretty big on the continent (try Italy in the summer and you'll know what I mean, especially mountain roads).
I always wanted to learn to ride but never got around to it, the loss is mine.
I wouldn't say it's the risk, plenty of people prepared to engage in risky behaviour still.
The cost nowadays is just huge, when you look at the licensing requirements, then purchasing and insuring a bike that for most will be a toy (as they'll have a car for practical stuff).
I rode bikes for many years, but decided to give it up when I hit my 40s, primarily because it's effing dangerous - I basically lost my nerve, but I've had some close encounters which I was lucky weren't worse (some my fault, can't blame it all on knobhead drivers) so I figured I should quit while I'm ahead. And it just wasn't fun anymore. I can't be the only one who felt like that.
It's also become very expensive to buy and run a bike.
For the last couple of decades or so, it's also become quite a hassle and also expensive to get a licence so I think you're not getting younger folks getting into bikes as much as you were.
Amount of traffic on roads.
Lower Driving standards (more speeding/running red lights/agressive lane changing)
Condition of roads (potholes,drain covers proud or sunk,debris in the gutter)
I rode for about 20 years, stopped when I had kids. Did a lot riding in France where people are much more biker friendly, the traffic isn't as bad and the weather is better. There are some good places in UK but overall it's just not as pleasant as riding in other parts of the world in my experience.
I only had a CBT but renewed it a few times when I was alot younger. I had a fair few calls (some my fault, some other people) and honestly gave up as I realised it was just a matter of time.
I was 18 when I got my first bike but now nearing 40 I am much happier in my car lol.
I love motorbikes, I used to ride one every day for 6 years in all weather.
I've been hit twice (both times not my fault) and I've got shit knees now to remind me of that, I'm not even 30. My oldest friend almost lost his leg and had to spend 4 years with a cage and now suffers with the aftermath. I'd consider us both lucky.
You can be the safest rider on the planet, yet the car containing someone distracted on their phone will win 100% of the time.
Cars have become enormous and drivers ever more entitled, I wouldn't fancy sharing the road with them if I were on a motorbike. It's bad enough as a pedestrian.
Some of it is down to a real or perceived danger, which is understandable…. But most younger people I know it comes down to practicality for them. More of a pain to do your shopping on a bike, can’t really go pick up larger items, if you want to go somewhere with your mates you can only have one on the back, if there’s 3 or 4 of you it’s harder. If it’s pissing down with rain it’s uncomfortable, if it’s icy or snowing you won’t want to ride.
So when it’s laid out like that it’s understandable. Yeah there are ways around it, but then the easiest option is just get a car
I'd love to have a bike but the cost is prohibitive. I started learning, bought the gear, accidentally went over the handlebars doing the emergency stop in my test and gave up. I wouldn't try direct access again, would feel more comfortable buying a 125 and getting lots of experience, but still seems expensive.
Maybe people think risking disability or death on a daily basis for a bit of fun isn’t worth it.
The amount of times I’ve heard “he hasn’t been the same since the bike accident” is way too many for me to ignore.
Had two a cbr500 and duke125 and had a crash. Not severe but still required surgery and a couple days in hospital crash due to no fault of mine. I realised how dangerous they were and stopped riding now. Also it was a lot of money dumped into it and just getting the license it was also a restricted license unlike a car license. I first had a cbt 125 then got a a2 license.
Also for a lot of people a car is used daily whereas the bike for me was once a week. It also couldn’t be used much in the winter I did ride it all year but you have to be very careful in the cold. I remember before riding all my friends and family had one story of a person on a bike who died or was seriously injured. I have never had someone tell me this about a car accident which is more statistically likely. I also after my accident realized how lucky I was as I rode usually likely an absolute idiot on country roads. It was kind of ironic how I crashed when I was following all road rules and driving in the limit and it was completely no fault of mine. Lucky I had my helmet cam on as driver was prosecuted as well.
However, I loved riding and exploring country roads on it which is not as much enjoyable in a car. Mostly due to them being narrow and the awkward meeting situations.
I am tearing about on a 125 (old lady that I am) so when I get to DAS I hopefully will pass. It is a lot of money to invest so want the best shot at passing first time so getting lots of road practice on my 125. My husband has been a biker for 30 years and currently has two bikes and commutes to work on them. I don’t worry about him but I do worry about car twats.
It is cheaper than a car but still expensive. Years ago we used to ride into London at the weekend and then go and do whatever. There is no way in hell we would ride into London now and park up even if it had been our old bike and not a chance on the super duper one we have now. When living up north we had attempts on our old bike twice, once they were disturbed loading into a van so dropped it causing 2k worth of damage and the other time it was in gated house grounds and they still tried but got scared off but not before they had jammed a screwdriver into the lock.
The average age of riders is increasing, meaning there aren't new riders coming to replace the ones that consider themselves too old to ride.
At bike nights, nearly all of the young riders have 125s and L plates. I'd wager that most will grow out of the 125 and can't be bothered to do all the testing required to get a full licence.
I'm amazed the manufacturers aren't offering support for getting people through. A subsidised Honda [or insert your manufacturer of choice] school or similar.
A lot of people that ride, love it. There are some amazing adventures to be had.
I don't know if the number actually is declining, but if it is I would say it's primarily because it's dangerous and expensive (speaking as a rider). In the south the roads are so congested it makes finding nice routes hard and the weather is only nice for riding 5 months of the year. It's a lot of money to tie up in a part time hobby.
50cc Mopeds were the start point at 16. You'd have a Paper Round or a Saturday job to save up. Easy to transition to a 250cc at 17 and then a big bike with a really simple Test. Now it's Theory, CBT, Mod 1 then Mod 2. Way more expensive and difficult. We never had Playstations, iPads and Computers or Mobile Phones. It seems like a different world today
I've toyed with the idea of getting a bike for years, but it's the elevated risk that stays my hand. I drive a lot for work and see some awful driving - and just plain mistakes - which would end so much worse for a rider than a car driver. I have a family that rely on me and the desire to ride a bike isn't strong enough to override that responsibility in my mind.
I'd love to, but it's too risky on public roads in my opinion.
Aside from what you mentioned...
Extra licence
Difficulty in obtaining said licence (CBT centres now being rare and far from where people live, and then a graduated licence when you finally pass the test)
A feeling that motorcycling is being banned by stealth, by making it ever harder to get a licence.
Could be a huge number of reasons: cost,
Extra licence,
relatively dangerous,
you get wet, hot, cold.
Noise - many riders are half deaf if not using ear plugs,
Convenience of car ownership versus the bike for short trips
E-bike
I would guess that it's probably the fact that so many getstolen every day by scumbags who have never done a day's work in their life, apart from working in the prison kitchen.
Having to think for cagers and second guess what they're going to do... Plus the amount of traffic on our roads is increasing so having a nice ride out with no issues is not that often anymore
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