People don't understand VRAM and have gone crazy
Posted by _Cabesi_@reddit | buildapc | View on Reddit | 22 comments
I get why VRAM has become a hot topic and everybody and their mother are going around pointing out why an x amount of it is not enough. The GPU manufacturers could have easily offered more a long time ago (and for a relatively little cost), but didn't, probably to nickel-dime you and to make you upgrade sooner. So it's completely logical for there to now be a movement in the PC hardware building community that is trying to remedy that and push the GPU manufacturers to offer more (by the way of the VRAM amount critique).
All of that is completely fine and understandable, and even desirable.
However, things have now completely flipped the other way and it seems as if people have completely lost their ability to understand anything other than the VRAM amount. It has literally come down to people only considering the binary of "enough/not enough VRAM" and literally nothing else.
So let me tell you something: the amount of VRAM in itself is irrelevant. If you are just gonna look at the number without considering anything else, then it has literally no predictive value as to what sort of performance you can expect.
And why is that?
It's because VRAM is only valuable if the GPU can run the scene well in the first place!
Imagine an old card, like, let's say, the 1060 6GB. 6GB is definitely not enough for modern games, but, even if the 1060 had 12GB, or 24GB, would that suddenly make modern games playable? Well, no. You might get 10fps instead of 7fps, but in any case it would unplayable - simply because the chip is not powerful enough.
This is a very important relationship that I seldom see mentioned or pointed out: The more powerful the card is, the more VRAM it needs. Conversely, the less powerful the card is, the less VRAM it needs. Some people say that they wouldn't buy anything with an x amount of VRAM unless it cost an x amount of money, but it has nothing to do with money, really. It's about performance (which then, in a roundabout way, has a relationship with money).
If one were to produce a 5090 with 8GB of VRAM, it would be utterly pointless, right? Because the 5090 can run 4k Ultra with RT - that's what the card has been made to do. It can run those settings at high frame rates, so the only thing it would be limited by would be the VRAM amount.
If one were to produce a 5070, or a 5070 Ti with 8GB, it would still be catastrophically bad. Again, because those cards can easily get 60fps+ at settings that would go over 8GB of VRAM.
The 5060 Ti 8GB is a lot less powerful than the 5070, but still powerful enough to run many games and settings - games and settings that use over 8GB of VRAM - at 60fps+. And this card actually exists! Very deservingly it is lambasted as the worst 50 series card that Nvidia is making at the moment (possibly tied with the 5050).
The 5060 - which also comes with 8GB - could also use more VRAM, as it's actually not that much less powerful than the 5060 Ti, but, together with games getting more demanding on the chip, it's already less of an issue.
Finally, there is the 5050, where the 8GB of VRAM becomes mostly a non-issue. Not because it's cheap, but because any settings that would go over 8GB of VRAM would be too demanding for the card to run anyway. You can also see this very thing with the 3060 12GB - which has the VRAM, but which can only beat the 8GB 5050 in scenarios where neither card is getting even 50fps. And once you lower the settings to get to over 50fps, the required VRAM drops as well.
So, to say the same thing in different words: the VRAM only matters in situations where it's limiting playable frames. Just getting "more performance" is meaningless if it doesn't lead to playable frames. And to get playable frames you need a GPU that's powerful enough to start with.
But, long story short, what does this mean?
Well, a few things. First, old or weak cards are generally not limited by VRAM, or benefited by VRAM either. The 5050, for example, is a truly terrible card, but it has nothing to do with VRAM. It just has a bad performance/price ratio, that's it. Cards like the 3060 12GB or the B580 benefit very little from their VRAM in modern games and should not be bought just because of it.
Second, you are not necessarily "future proofing" your GPU by buying one with the higher amount of VRAM. Again, VRAM is tied to the performance. Already today, you get many games (mostly UE5 based) where you are getting under 60fps at max settings on modern cards, never mind their VRAM. Future games will need more VRAM, yes, but they will also be more demanding on the chip as well - and that demand could very well rise much faster than the VRAM requirements. So what if in a few years your GPU doesn't have enough VRAM to run at max settings? It's completely irrelevant if max settings only get you 30fps regardless of VRAM.
This relationship between performance and VRAM might change in the future, and it's possible that we might one day live in a reality where you have lowered settings to the minimum, and could be getting 100+ fps, but are still limited by VRAM even on 12/16GB cards, but that's not the reality today, and there is no indication that it's gonna become the reality any time soon.
Until then, stop looking at VRAM as if it was a static value that could be assessed as good or bad (or even better or worse) at a glance and giving your recommendations based on that.
KillEvilThings@reddit
Ignoring: people complaining their 30 series cards not having enough VRAM
ignoring: RDNA2 users not having VRAM issues
8gb cards existing and not being able to play shit.
Kindly shut the fuck up and stop spreading this corporate propoganda.
Wylie288@reddit
They can play anything not made with UE5. I own a 3060ti. I can run full RT + DLSS no problem. Even shit like Doom Dark Ages doesn't hit my VRAM limit. But quite literally anything in UE5 tends to use at least 2gb of shared memory even when I drop res down to like 500p.
8gb should never be too little for 1080p. VR, RT. Doesn't matter. UE5 just fucking sucks and nearly everyone uses it. And THEY are the ones to blame.
_Cabesi_@reddit (OP)
Thanks for providing a physical example that the single brain cell morons that my post is targeting really exist and I haven't made them up.
KillEvilThings@reddit
Thank you for your service for sucking off corporations for a complete run on essay of a failure on logic.
Own-Indication5620@reddit
I completey agree bro. There's so much misleading info on VRAM atm. The reality is, every GPU uses VRAM differently and in a lot of cases it will never go over the limit if you're putting it in a realistic gaming scenario. For example, u can't expect a current 1080p 8GB (5050, 5060) card to not have issues at 1440p or 4K on certain games. It has been like this forever. On those cards, all you have to do is reduce settings to medium or less and you can easily get back 2-3GB of VRAM and be able to play 1440p or 4K for years to come in MANY games. It may not sound ideal, but u can't expect a $300-$400 GPU to do what a $800 or $1000 GPU can.
I got the 5070 12GB and at 1440p literally none of my games go past 8GB on the settings I use. It works amazingly well. At 4K the VRAM only goes up 5-10% and still well within the limit of use. Having 12GB is more than enough. It's also often using much less VRAM then 16GB or 20GB cards which will naturally utilize more due to how they're designed.
So yeah, people have gone crazy due to the misleading info out there where you have YT channels using weak GPUs at 4K and claiming VRAM is a 'problem' across the board when it simply isn't true. They're just using weak GPUs in crazy and unrealistic scenarios..
_Cabesi_@reddit (OP)
It's not so much that the VRAM info itself is misleading (although some of it is as well), as it is many of them simply completely omitting the performance axis from their assessment.
Everyone says to get more VRAM to "future proof", completely ignoring the fact that the best way to future proof is actually buying a more powerful card. It's like people now think that only VRAM requirements will ever go up, but performance requirements will stay the way they are forever. While, in reality, performance requirements rise faster than VRAM ones - which you can readily see from there being many more old cards that are currently limited by their performance, than there are those limited just by their VRAM.
Like I said, people have gone crazy.
Own-Indication5620@reddit
Totally agree. There's an emphasis going that VRAM is more important than so many other factors. In reality.. each GPU will only use what it needs.. and often it's way less depending on so many factors. The way I see it is like this:
So yeah, people have gone crazy with it, and there's a lot of misleading info and numbers that heavily distort everything.
Live-Juggernaut-221@reddit
The exception is if you're doing AI work. There is a huge difference between a slowish GPU that can fit the model in vram and a fast GPU that has to use system memory.
PazStar@reddit
I don't disagree but AI work is a niche market when you look at the overall customers who buy a GPU and how they are marketed.
Live-Juggernaut-221@reddit
I do sometimes forget I'm basically in a bubble.
Xc4lib3r@reddit
Isn't the 3060 12GB proved that more VRAM is better?
_Cabesi_@reddit (OP)
Have you actually read my post, or are you just responding to the title?
FTBagginz@reddit
Yes, exactly. Glad I didn’t read OPs post, he had no idea what he’s talking about
-jp-@reddit
I am not aware of even one single person anywhere who is demanding a 1060 with 24GB of RAM. The closest thing I can even think of is folks who ask why video cards don't just have SODIMM slots, and even they understand when it's explained that the timing on GPUs is too tight for that to work.
damien24101982@reddit
i have 2 pcs, one with 4080 (16gb) and one with 4070ti(12gb) so far no vram issues in 1440p
hurdeehurr@reddit
so far....
boredini@reddit
Buying a 9060 XT 16gb and I'm currently on a 1070 8gb. i run games perfectly fine on 8gb of vram because the card can pull its weight.
But people wanna game on high settings on 1440p which isn't an option without high vram but also isn't an option if the card isn't fast enough. Everyone knows these days its either a 5070/Ti or a 9070 XT if u want high 1440p gaming but people only see the vram size and don't want it. I understand though as some games do use ALOT of vram. Resident evil 2 remastered uses 3.4gb of vram on high texture settings alone + everything else your looking at 6-8gb of vram used.
Other things people forget is you also need a worthy CPU to run a lot of vram. Then you see people push for a 24gb card using an outdated CPU
foilrider@reddit
VRAM usage is largely (not entirely) tied to texture and display resolution. If you want to play at 4k with pretty details, high-res models, long draw distances, etc, all of that “stuff” that the card needs to draw needs to fit in RAM somewhere.
On the other hand, if you are playing at 1080P, you can use lower quality (and smaller) textures, models, etc, and they’ll fit in smaller VRAM.
The VRAM is more tied to quality and detail than framerate. If the assets that your scene needs to draw fit into 8GB, then your card can re-draw slightly different images of that scene as fast as it can process them and extra ram doesn’t matter much.
But if the assets don’t fit and the card can only get them out of main memory all the time, it will sit around waiting for them and be really slow.
That’s an oversimplification, but it’s sort of the general idea.
bitesized314@reddit
Sometimes VRAM requirements go up. Sometimes processing requirements go up. You need both in balance. But also, some games hit various parts of your computer in different ways. Some games hit single core really hard, other multi core more efficiently. Some game use oodles of VRAM. Never take 1 game as the only sign you need to convince you you to need to upgrade because of a bottleneck.
beljko0106@reddit
Yeah, the 5070 is unfortunate for 2 reasons:
motorbit@reddit
so what you say is: vram capacity and gpu capabilities need to match and nvidia is fucking with everybody?
boredini@reddit
you nailed it