Rates these days suck

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

My least paying route is hauling 100000 pounds milk from the farm to the dairy. 38 miles round trip 3 loads everyday. 1600 dollars per load

Reply

[-]

Honest question, why are the rates so high for that? Bust your ass for a year and you'll gross ~1.75 million dollars and do only 14,000 miles? Even if you only get 2mpg, and $5/gal, thats $35,000 in fuel, assume all new tires, another $7,500 or so, and maybe $15,000 for insurance. Its pocket change in comparison to the revenue. Shit at that rate, you could even buy a brand new truck and trailer around $300,000 every year and give away your old one and still clear 1.5 million.

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

Nobody wants to do it. 24 7 if I don't pick up the milk we buy it I negotiate rates every 6 months Rates can go up or down depending on milk prices We move 3 million pounds of milk everyday we can't just say we're not picking up the milk. The last 8 axle trailer I bought was 250000 dollars. I own 43 of them and need more. I run all pre emission Western Stars. Haven't had to hire a driver in 6 years

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

You're saying that you can gross 1.75 million with a truck. If you have 43 trailers and need more, you must have at least 35 on the road daily. Even if your trucks average only 3.5 days/week, that would suggest you are grossing over 30 million annually. Those numbers just don't seem realistic to me... If I had the opportunity to drive 7 days a week and earn a million by the end of the year, I'd move wherever that job is tomorrow. I'll drive any truck, yours, mine, or even some white Volvo you stole from the Russians.

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

You don't understand milk. I have at least 30 trucks a day everyday I also do custom harvesting. Today I had 24 silage trucks running 2 choppers 3 packing tractors

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

I definitely do not understand the milk industry. The numbers just seem so wildly disproportionate that it doesn't make any sense to me. Why is there no mega or even just a large corporation coming in and underbidding you? They have the capital, the buying power, the drivers, the dispatch crew...they definitely have the ability to create a milk division that provides an outstanding customer experience. They can afford to come in, buy any leads they need, then run at a loss longer than you ever could, and once you're out, just jack up the prices to what you charge. At $3,900/day, it would seem they could even afford to have a driver on standby for every driver running a load. Most businesses have a 5-25% profit margin, and trucking tends to be in the 10-15% range. If you pay a driver $200k, give them $100k in benefits, and buy them brand new equipment (say $500k) every 2 years and scrap the "old" stuff, each truck would be grossing over a million annually, your wildly outsized compensation would be $300k annually, your equipment would be $250k annually, and your marginal costs would be well under $50k annually. Despite all of that, you should have a profit of at least $450k annually per truck, or a 45% profit margin. That is leaps and bounds outside of anything else in the industry. What am I missing? How is $1.75 million of potential gross not resulting in at least a million of profit per truck?

Reply

[-]

natkingcoil@reddit

Right *jb hunt has entered the chat* Just conjecture based off of what I've heard from ag people I know but I believe the megas regularly enter into more and more niche forms of trucking and then fuck it all up and the customer goes back to the good ol boys who actually make decent money for a job well done.

Reply

[-]

PearBlossom@reddit

This is really not a hard concept to grasp. There are plenty of companies absolutely happy to pay a local company to provide top tier service. You ask why some mega doesn't come in and underbid? Because that mega's office is 1500 miles away, staffed with ding dongs that don't know the industry and equipment, and doesn't have boots on the ground when shit hits the fan. Whereas this local dude will bend over backwards to accommodate whatever this customer needs, whenever the customer needs it. They are paying for experience, expertise and quality service on demand.

Reply

[-]

Euphoric_Ad8910@reddit

That’s not true. They could pay someone that knows the industry WELL to know all that.

Reply

[-]

Fluffy-Caterpillar49@reddit

To be fair... stevens moved into milk recently.. only for some of their big accounts like hershey and craft though...

Reply

[-]

TouchMyBoomstick@reddit

He’s not letting in some of the details about how much backup you need to run milk. Family friend offered me a 45k/month for a simple daily 8 hour milk tun. For it I needed 2 trucks, one being a spare Incase my daily broke down, two trailers, one being overflow and preferably another driver as this was a 365 day job, so doesn’t matter if I was sick or if it was Christmas, I had to run. Sadly no bank wanted to give a kid a loan to buy two milk tankers so I couldn’t take the offer but this was just a small farm offering that for 1 load a day. This mans talking 3 loads a day for what I assume is a large farm. The large farm likely requires a much larger start up.

Reply

[-]

eyesotope86@reddit

Coming from the manufacturing world, you're basically asking about the difference between discrete manufacturing and line manufacturing. Customized, local, responsive logistics can beat out the 'off the shelf' option on everything but raw costs, and some businesses need that more than need the lower costs. The dollar is almighty, but insurance that you will continue to receive the dollars is the model for a lot of places.

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

But milkman isn't saying its a marginal bump in pay or theres some hidden fees/costs that are stuck on to each load. He's saying that for each load, his revenue is about what an otr truck generates in a full day, his drivers can do 3 loads a day, and his fleet never goes far from home or does many miles to do that. With his numbers, a single truck with a single driver who is paid very well, and takes time off would profit him $750,000/year. That is just absurd, and if true, I don't see how there aren't dozens of companies underbidding each other. If he said he did a gross of $1,600/day, that would be absolutely logical. Hell, even $2,000 makes sense...but $5,000? The commodity he's transporting is base class 1 milk, which sells wholesale at $18.04/hundredweight (according to USDA). He says hes getting $1,600 for 100,000lbs moved 19 miles, so he's taking $1.60/hundredweight for the first leg of the transportation. Thats 8.9% of the value of the load for just 1 leg of transportation. I've been in gas/oil. Gas stations rely on you to be there exactly when you say. Not 6 hours early, not 6 hours late. They need enough empty space to fit the full truckload, but they also can't afford to run out. Most loads are about 8,000-8,500 gal, which would be about $25,000 worth of product in my area, annual insurance is about $70,000 (about $200/day). The transportation would cost about $250-$300 for that load depending on the contract and you could get 4-5 in a day. How on Earth could a gas hauling operation with much higher operations costs and much higher liability gross out less than a third of a milk operation? If a driver takes a milk tanker and flips it, you lost your very specialized asset and $18,000 of product. There's no hazmat remediation or major cleanup from the cargo. If the road is still covered, you'd just have a water truck come and soak it for $400. If you flip a gas tanker, you've got a multimillion dollar cleanup on top of the lost specialized assets. (Ignoring the issue of the driver because that's the same in both cases).

Reply

[-]

Primedirector3@reddit

My question as well—a gold mine in profit margin only stays that way in a monopoly scenario which trucking def is not

Reply

[-]

vastowen@reddit

I'll fucking do it. Need a man? Lmao. What do the drivers get paid?

Reply

[-]

szip88@reddit

You lost me at choppers....your saying there are helicopters involved?

Reply

[-]

robertoj29@reddit

He means a silage chopper or silage harvester. It's a special type of combine harvester with a header that shreds the crop into tiny pieces rather than just plucking off the corn cobs. It then shoots this large volume of material out of a pipe and into a chaser bin which follows the harvester through the field.

Reply

[-]

Ashtonpaper@reddit

The silage is then covered and wet fermented which is what makes it silage Doo do do do do do, today on how it’s made: Silage

Reply

[-]

Hoops4U@reddit

Major 🧢 you would have absolutely been under bidded by now at that rate. No way you're making $42 a mile even if overweight

Reply

[-]

Fluffy-Caterpillar49@reddit

What part of the country?

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

Where can you haul 100000 pounds of milk

Reply

[-]

Fluffy-Caterpillar49@reddit

I have zero idea.... id guess around illinois or milwalkee?

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

Michigan

Reply

[-]

RyuKirito@reddit

Wtf? I’ll do it if I can make $1,600 a load

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

So you're going to do it by yourself. 3 loads a day 365 days a year. What are you going to do if your truck or trailer breaks down what are you going to do if you have to spend 10 hours getting unloaded and the tanks go full at the farm. I've owned this business since 1978 and built it up to what it is today It's not as easy as what it sounds

Reply

[-]

RyuKirito@reddit

Why the hate? All I meant was I’ll do it if I’m well paid. I don’t know why you have to try and bite my head off.

Reply

[-]

Thick_Confection4484@reddit

You call that "trying to bite your head off??" You're softer than baby shit- I'm guessing Millennial or Generation Zombie.

Reply

[-]

lesserDaemonprince@reddit

Cause he's expecting to be called out for bullshit. I don't think the milk mogul is being entirely truthful.

Reply

[-]

PearBlossom@reddit

I have seen this so many times it's comical at this point. People want high pay and have absolutely no understanding what actually goes into being able to command that sort of pay.

Reply

[-]

spartanantler@reddit

It’s cause he’s full of shit. It’s Reddit I can make up numbers to

Reply

[-]

Always_Shifting_4459@reddit

Sensitive much? Drink a fireball or 2... fuck it! Down the whole case of em 🤣

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

Absolutely, if I could take home 1.5 million annually, I'd be all over it. Truck breaks down? I've got a spare sitting in my yard. The longest haul is 38 miles, so my yard is less than half an hour away to go hop in the spare truck and repower the trailer. What am I missing? What is the difficulty for a driver here? I had an employee flake on me, which was the final straw for me to fire him. That in turn pushed me onto doing about 800 miles/day 5 days a week, and 400 miles/day the other 2 days of the week. I was rolling over 5,000 miles/week (including miscellaneous off route stuff) to satisfy my contract lanes for the 9 remaining weeks, then I didn't renew one of the lanes for obvious reasons.

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

What would you do if you were half way unloaded and the dairy went full. It's probably going to be 5 hours before they start pumping again. In 2 hours 100000 pounds of milk is going to going to be ready at the farm

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

Well you're the expert, tell me what to do? It sounds like the best option would be to go to the yard (which, again, is less than half an hour away), hop in the spare truck, and go pick up the next load, then finish the first load when it's ready. Remember, I was suggesting that a mega could easily underbid you and deliver better service rather than tiny micro fleet me. Given the numbers you've said, any mega could easily have a truck on standby for every truck running a load, so would have plenty of spare capacity to store freight in the meantime.

Reply

[-]

icy_penguins@reddit

The Megas have tried that, they absolutely can not provide better service in a time-sensitive industry like milk. The drivers don't care about the product enough, it's just a paycheck to them. Why don't the milk places do it themselves, because the logistic network is already well established and reliable. The amount of time and money it would take to buy all the equipment, find quality drivers and get it running aren't worth it financially to them. The point you're missing is he didn't say he has 1 truck doing 3 loads a day, he said he gets 3 loads a day, it could be 1 truck if everything goes right, or it could be 3 or more trucks if it all goes to hell. Plus he's running at least 30 other trucks, sure, the gross of his entire business is probably in the millions but after it's all said and done,he'ss paying himself as the owner probably about the same as his drivers make.

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

He said each truck runs an average of 3 loads a day and never disputed that when I asked him for clarification. Sure, some days everything could go to shit and have breakdowns galore where you have 6 trucks needed to run those 3 loads, but he said its 3 per day per truck times 30 trucks just doing milk (plus other side operations). Where is the money going? A reasonable estimate for the all in marginal costs with great driver pay and great equipment would be $1,100/day while he says they average $4,800/day in revenue. Even for an otr fleet owner, if he had 30 trucks on the road and only made what a driver makes, I would be shocked by that. Even just $10,000 in profit per truck should be getting him around $300,000/year in profit plus his other side businesses.

Reply

[-]

dbxbeat@reddit

You're sounding pretty well thought out here, while responding to a fish tales super trucker.

Reply

[-]

Bozhark@reddit

Need a mentee?

Reply

[-]

bingeflying@reddit

This guy milks

Reply

[-]

szip88@reddit

You should be a billionaire soon by your metrics. My guy put down the fireball

Reply

[-]

Cardinal_350@reddit

24/7 365. Cows don't take Christmas off. You own a milk route and there's no days off unless you get a part timer

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

Cool...where do I sign up?

Reply

[-]

Cardinal_350@reddit

First buy a truck and route tanker. Then buy a milk route.

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

So a farm will happily pay their existing trucking provider 1.75 million annually just to keep the relationship even if someone else bids it at 1 million annually?

Reply

[-]

B_drgnthrn@reddit

Having worked in the farming industry, I can tell you 100%, yes. Reliability, dependability, and track record when it comes to shit like that is absolutely worth it. Same thing with cattle haulers. If I know you, and I know you can do it, and you have proven to me you can do it, I'm not gonna fuck with that system.

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

Hi

Reply

[-]

Fli_fo@reddit

Good info in this thread. Seems a niche where quality beats lowest price.

Reply

[-]

Ashtonpaper@reddit

People are always willing to pay for quality, they just claim they aren’t because they can’t “guarantee” it across their entire workforce, and then you’re just overpaying if some are not quality consistently. Also you need to know where the value is, like milk man. He knows consistency is key. The hard part is getting your name out there. And consistency. And producing quality.

Reply

[-]

eyesotope86@reddit

Not as niche as you'd think. Coming from the manufacturing world, discrete manufacturing is an entire side of every industry out there.

Reply

[-]

dbxbeat@reddit

Shit, I'd go 700k just for the regular income and stability

Reply

[-]

NukaDadd@reddit

If you don't pick up the load for whatever reason (breakdown/blowout, illness etc), you're buying the load. Now you have your tanker full of 12.5k gallons of milk & still have to pick up another load like clockwork. The cow's don't stop. What do you do with 12.5k gallons of milk? You gotta pay someone to dump it (usually the farms have a dump site) now you have to pay to have the tanker sanitized. You just lost over $30k missing that 1 load. I did this shit for 6yrs.

Reply

[-]

Ashtonpaper@reddit

So you’re also insuring their product. Which is definitely a worthwhile agreement.

Reply

[-]

failingatdeath@reddit

You mean 1600 per day???

Reply

[-]

2Z71PeaceReaper@reddit

Dairy is scary

Reply

[-]

Physics-Pool@reddit

Bullshit. Nuclear doesn't even pay that consistently. MAYBE $1600 a day if they run 3 loads total. Where you at the Arctic circle? Darien gap? Or maybe its bootleg coke laced milk out of North Korea?

Reply

[-]

freudsdriver@reddit

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that. Can you provide receipts?!

Reply

[-]

Toomuchhorntalk69@reddit

Yea this dude said something about one of his guys getting hurt falling off of a tanker and then 3 comments later, when people started talking about the lax safety in dairy farms, all of a sudden his guys don’t have to climb on the trailers. His story changes quite often.

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

Believe what you want. Company gets paid on 15th and 30th I'm not going to show you my contracts

Reply

[-]

dbxbeat@reddit

Because they don't exist.

Reply

[-]

ScoobyD00BIEdoo@reddit

Username checks out

Reply

[-]

Merr77@reddit

Is this real?

Reply

[-]

A_World_Divided@reddit

It is not

Reply

[-]

Satisfyeher@reddit

What’s a good formula for making sure you get good rates ?

Reply

[-]

FFXIV_NotATail@reddit

IND1-5 is in Indianapolis.

Reply

[-]

zeenq7@reddit

If your truck/bus gets 6 MPG (Miles per gallon) with 0.21$ saved per gallon you could have saved ≈ $43.68 (just on your first drive) now imagine how much you can save per day and per month?

Reply

[-]

CodeWalkerrr@reddit

I’m not an owner-op but those numbers look great to me. 5k for SD to Kent, WA? Bingo, bango, BONGO

Reply

[-]

highrocky@reddit

What website or app is this??

Reply

[-]

zetrad76@reddit

Looks like Amazon Relay.

Reply

[-]

Socketz11@reddit

Team runs.

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

2 team runs, 1 is reefer, 1 is dryvan, and 2 solo runs, one is power only, one is a box truck.

Reply

[-]

Socketz11@reddit

If its a really good paying run like these are, there is always a catch. Multiple stops, special permitting required, weather, road closures. Just because you see 4 great paying runs, doesnt mean the other 99% of runs still arent paying under $2 a mile. Plus the best paying runs never even make it to the load board, the broker will contact his buddies or favorite carrier and give them first shot at it before it ever gets listed.

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

No catch on these. Amazon just needs shit moved and no one was taking it at the lower rates, so the prices went up. There's no broker and no one to negotiate with on these. Just 3 taps on your phone and you have a load assigned to you. $4-$6/mile for reefer is pretty common. Box truck loads are very hit and miss. Anything outside of their usual network area always goes for stupid money. If you're willing to commit to work, Amazon will reward you for it. I have a consistent lane paying $1,200 for 280 miles with them. They pay enough for it to go round trip, but if I can get a return load, there's nothing stopping it.

Reply

[-]

Rdtisgy1234@reddit

Good, no one should be taking cheap freight

Reply

[-]

Crimzon07@reddit

Hey I work across the street from the Crest Hill Amazon. Don't block our driveways, we will call the police on you.

Reply

[-]

joelhagraphy@reddit

I used to live in Crest Hill! And Rockdale, and joliet, etc

Reply

[-]

Puzzleheaded-Ad-5685@reddit

Aww I miss parking at that dead end right next to the Distribution ;’( Joliet mall wasn’t far at all.

Reply

[-]

Crimzon07@reddit

They built a new werehouse across the street to the south of Amazon and blocked off that cul de sac with cinder blocks. Amazon let's drivers park in the small parking lot on the south end of the building now while they wait for trailers. They are eventually going to extend the street around Dayton to Weber Rd in the next couple years.

Reply

[-]

OsBaculum@reddit

I know it's a typo, but "werehouse" has me imagining it transforming into a house in the light of the full moon. Arooo! Or whatever houses say

Reply

[-]

Puzzleheaded-Ad-5685@reddit

Huh? Why didn’t they let trucks do that the whole time? Those cinder blocks must be an eyesore for that business. I always hated that Crest Hill location. It was always too cramped for how much trucks they bring in and out.

Reply

[-]

Crimzon07@reddit

I guess the Crest Hill police got tired of showing up trying to get everyone to move and told Amazon to do something about it. The lines that used to be around the building haven't been too bad lately. The cinder blocks were blocking the office building for the construction company that was building the werehouse. Now they just don't want people parking there.

Reply

[-]

Tall_Category_304@reddit

These rates are gas. Tf you talkin bout?

Reply

[-]

Thick_Confection4484@reddit

Apparently he was being sarcastic. I didn't know either, since I'm local and have no idea what a good mileage rate is.

Reply

[-]

Cool-Air-O@reddit

I would do that Rapid City to Washington no problem. Only thing is, I'm not a door swinger

Reply

[-]

Im__hec@reddit

What loadboard is this?

Reply

[-]

PlymouthSea@reddit

Looks like Amazon Relay. The thing that tipped me off is the station code designations. Quick search on google maps shows MDW5 is an Amazon Sort Center in Crest Hill, IL. The station codes often correlate to a geographical area. For Utah it will be something like DUT or SLC with a number.

Reply

[-]

rolotomazi@reddit

Worked for Amazon for almost 10 years. This absolutely Relay. The codes for Amazon sites correlate to the nearest airport the site is located. The other given is the "VRID" always starts with 11******* and is built alpha numeric.

Reply

[-]

Puzzleheaded-Ad-5685@reddit

You are correct sir.

Reply

[-]

poutinelover6@reddit

Looks like amazon relay

Reply

[-]

Xbtweeker@reddit

Most definitely

Reply

[-]

easymacmac85@reddit

Those are 2 unicorn loads that pay decent compared to 10 other loads that pay shit on. Nothing to see here and no need to glaze amazon lol

Reply

[-]

coperifaldia@reddit

I would GLADLY take that IL > FL load right now. Already headed to Washington. Got some good miles for the weekend. Everyday is a good day!

Reply

[-]

InsaneAdam@reddit

You running a team truck, 53ft, refer?

Reply

[-]

coperifaldia@reddit

Yeah. Only way of making money. It's open season.

Reply

[-]

Baconated-Coffee@reddit

Remember to include the dead head out of Florida or the trip to Disney while you wait for a load.

Reply

[-]

coperifaldia@reddit

Take whatever to atlanta then work your way elsewhere for money. Some produce pays leaving, i work reefer. Some loads just pay real well. Not often enough though.

Reply

[-]

Tomokomon@reddit

As a company driver this looks insane to me haha

Reply

[-]

Fli_fo@reddit

I'm in Europe and it's just crazy how little of the cake the drivers get...

Reply

[-]

Tomokomon@reddit

Oh absolutely. Depending on the mega carrier you go with you might not even make more than minimum wage wich is diabolical to think about. When you consider how much you sacrifice being away from family and the time you put in

Reply

[-]

Redsoxdragon@reddit

I'm no o/o guy, but $1000 to drive a box truck 160 miles sounds really good

Reply

[-]

QuicksandGotMyShoe@reddit

Agreed - these rates look pretty good to me but I must be missing something

Reply

[-]

CaptainGibbs96@reddit

Ok can someone kindly educate me on a decent rate? I've always heard that the bare minimum is $2.50/mile. Is $5 a mile really that bad?

Reply

[-]

KvHuntit@reddit

Prime inc was paying me $1.00 a mile and priced me out of leasing… I lost $24,000 😪

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

$2/mile is roughly where a company can pay their driver and cover their operation. $2.50/mile is when the company starts making some money. These are the good paying loads, the title was sarcastic

Reply

[-]

Myterryfolds@reddit

Thank god I thought I was going crazy lol

Reply

[-]

Milk_MAN1963@reddit

The driver would call me and tell what was going on. Either myself or another driver would take another truck and trailer and load the milk at the farm. That's why one truck company don't pick up big farms

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

If 1 truck can gross 1.75 million annually, there is plenty of margin there to just have a spare truck sitting on standby waiting for a load. Shit, you could even have 2, 3, or 4 on standby. Why can't a large corporation like Penske, JB Hunt, Swift, etc come in and push you out? Why can't the farm buy equipment themselves and have their own drivers? You aren't talking about shaving nickels and dimes here. Your annual marginal costs (per truck) would be less than $50k before salaries. I can't imagine your all in costs exceed $200k (per truck) given the numbers you've given. Why doesn't the farm just haul their own milk and save the 1.5 million per truck per year?

Reply

[-]

A_Dash_of_Time@reddit

Not an OO. I couldn't say about the rates and im not educated on reading load boards... What's up with these all looking like you have just barely enough time to get there?

Reply

[-]

Ornery_Ads@reddit (OP)

Amazon loads work like an endless auction. They post them (usually) at some pathetic number, then the price goes up and up as you get closer to the arrival time. The offer rate will jump pretty fast once the arrival time comes, and the load will keep getting pushed back 1 hour at a time. These are some of the loads that no one has picked up yet, and the arrival times have or soon will be pushed back.

Reply

[-]

salaamcreddit@reddit

That's Amazon. They're pretty strict on times for outside carriers. I work as a freight partner and get six hours to go from Orlando to Miami. I stop for a shower at love's every time. But the other carriers are under immense time pressure, so they'll do some risky and potentially illegal things to get it there on time.

Reply

[-]