Solo Long XC requirements for PPL
Posted by Creative-Grocery2581@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 14 comments
Hey guys, I was just told from a CFI that in the long XC for PPL, your first leg between your starting airport and the first stop should be greater than 50nm. I interpreted that it has to be one of the three legs has to be greater than 50nm. I read the FAA requirements and I’m still interpreting that it can be any leg out of the three. He told me that few years ago, one DPE didn’t take checkride of one of his students stating it has to be the first leg. Does anyone have any knowledge about this requirement?
AnesthetizeThat@reddit
Consult 61.109 which says for that requirement:
One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations; and
RaiseTheDed@reddit
But, for it to count as cross country in the first place, at least one airport has to be greater than 50 miles from point of departure.
AnesthetizeThat@reddit
Yes that is what the 50nm leg requirement is getting at
jet-setting@reddit
Not necessarily. You could start at A, then fly 20 miles north to B. Then continue and fly to an airport 30 miles south of A. (50 mile leg) but at no point did you go 50 miles away from your original point of departure.
AnesthetizeThat@reddit
I’d argue that the leg length requirement is indirectly referencing 61.1 and how it defines cross country flying. It would be a bit silly to try to game the system by planning a flight that overlaps the airport of origin.
RevolutionaryWear952@reddit
These two replies cover everything.
To piggy back further in a practical sense it’s just so much easier to make all the legs over 50 unless that’s just very restrictive in your area. It leaves zero room for misinterpretation and if a student has to divert any of the legs due to weather or winds or comfort, they don’t waste their time and come up 5 miles short of logging a xc. Fly it forwards, backwards, who cares.
Substantial_Bee_2569@reddit
This LOI provides a very clear explanation that supports your CFI and DPE’s thoughts. Yes, while the FAR’s don’t say that the XC must have an airport greater than 50NM from the original point of departure, this LOI does. Every DPE I’ve sent students to follows this LOI because it was the ruling made by the FAA. This is the section from the LOI that matters for your scenario.
“You then ask whether the flight described above would meet the requirements of 61.109(a)(5)(ii). The answer is no. This is because there was no landing at a point more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure.”
Full LOI: https://www.faa.gov/media/14586
Creative-Grocery2581@reddit (OP)
Interesting
TxAggieMike@reddit
Bring your FAR AIM and open it in front of him to §61.109(a)(5)(ii) and ask him where it says says the first leg must be 50nm
Mimshot@reddit
One leg must be >50nm per far 61.105. One airport must be >50nm from the origin airport per 61.1.
If you’re making exactly two stops and returning to your origin, either the first or last leg must be more than 50nm per geometry.
flyingron@reddit
You are right, the CFI is wrong. One of the legs has to be MORE THAN 50 miles from the departure airport to the destination. You could do 5 ten mile legs, then a 51 mile one, and then 5 more ten mile legs and meet the requirements. It says "one segment" not the "first segment."
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
You're correct, there's no room for misinterpretation here really. Unfortunately some CFIs and DPEs get weird stuff in their heads sometimes:
One solo cross country flight of 150 nautical miles total distance, with full-stop landings at three points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles between the takeoff and landing locations...
That says "one segment," not "the first segment."
RaiseTheDed@reddit
The DPE is wrong. And you're sort of wrong. Lol.
It's one airport has to be farther than 50nm than the original point of departure.
For example. First leg is 20 miles. Second is 55. However, the second airport is only 45 miles from the original point of departure, that is not a cross country.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey guys, I was just told from a CFI that in the long XC for PPL, your first leg between your starting airport and the first stop should be greater than 50nm. I interpreted that it has to be one of the three legs has to be greater than 50nm. I read the FAA requirements and I’m still interpreting that it can be any leg out of the three. He told me that few years ago, one DPE didn’t take checkride of one of his students stating it has to be the first leg. Does anyone have any knowledge about this requirement?
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