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No_Status_2801@reddit

I don't think he cares if it's legal or not. It's Alaska

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SnooMaps7370@reddit

It's legal.

There's no FAR which prohibits operating off of a road (provided the pilot exercises good judgement while doing so, or risks violating the catch all "don't endanger people" reg).

OP, this is genius! Thank you for sharing. Do you have a link to the original source please

Visited Fairbanks in January last year for a seek. Was -40° the entire time. Genuinely don't know how humans actually live up there. Don't get me wrong it's stunningly beautiful but it genuinely feels like another planet sometimes. Especially flying in and all you see is just vast white and gray emptiness. I feel like the only type of people who belong there are those that are extremely self reliant.

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jccaclimber@reddit

I had a room mate from Alaska. He explained that there are two types of people in most of Alaska:

People who can really only make it in Alaska, usually due to social differences from the average person.
People who could make it absolutely anywhere, and they just happen to be there.

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smallangrynerd@reddit

I went to college with someone from Alaska, and he was definitely the latter lol. We joked that he accidentally came to our school (in Ohio) because our mascot was the polar bears and he got confused.

FAA: "Everywhere the light touches is our kingdom."

Pilot: "What's that dark place over there?"

Cessna 172 - Toyota Corolla

No, that's not it. I see how the stereotype seems equally insane, but the Alaskan (wo)man stereotype is all about doing seemingly insane shit that is actually normal because of weirdly modern frontier experience.

They don't, but you could

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

That's actually a good idea. Probably wouldn't need 2K feet, but the idea is actually a very good one.

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Duckbilling2@reddit

If you're flying a 182 it might be nice to have 2000 feet

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

Any pilot needing 2000 feet to land a 182 is a very bad pilot. Most need less than 600 feet.

HawkeyeAP@reddit

That plane can probably go from touch down to stopped in less than 1000 feet easily

Many bush planes in Alaska are so modified they regularly land in less than 300 feet.

That plane would be landing sub 60 knots I expect.

About 25-30 knots, most likely.

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spurcap29@reddit

exactly. I was being conservative because I didnt research the specific plane to try and make assumptions on performance specs. what you say doesn't surprise me.

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ZeePirate@reddit

I know people are dumb enough to do it for sure.

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JayceTheShockBlaster@reddit

No, it's hours logged per incident.

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Jumpy_Bison_@reddit

Alaskan who could fly before I had a drivers license, usually someone I know at least as an acquaintance dies in a plane every 4 years or so. Sometimes more sometimes less but it’s remarkably consistent. They all logged their hours to my knowledge.

From their data source,

Accident experience is worst in Alaska as well as mountainous states in the Northwest U.S.region.

The rest of the article talks about the likelihood of fatalities, so accident experience likely applies to death from accidents, not pure number of accidents.

Its not surprising considering the terrain and unpredictable weather conditions, just like the "mountainous region of the Northwest" So unless I misread the full article (and please correct me if I am) it doesnt indicate more accidents, it indicates if there is an accident, your "accident experience" is much more likely to result in death when flying in the mountainous northwest AND Alaska

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TacTurtle@reddit

This, a massive number of crash reports summarize as "controlled flight into terrain due to visibility / pilot error / engine failure"

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AbeFromanEast@reddit

This is where I got my figures from
https://www.rgare.com/knowledge-center/article/general-aviation-experience-in-the-united-states?utm_source=chatgpt.com

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Batpipes521@reddit

Some people were probably taught by their parent who was taught by their parent. Somebody down the line had to have had some sort of flight training and just passes it down to their kids. When that’s one of your main methods of transportation it’s not too surprising.

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Hot_Most5332@reddit

Not necessarily, at least depending on what you mean by “training.” We are only about 2-3 generations removed from the dawn of aviation depending on your age. How do you think people learned to fly in the 30s and 40s?

Dad taught me when I was 12. He came home, told me to hop in the truck, and he had me drive around a field for a while. Then he told me to get on the road, and we drove to one of our fields where our tractor was sitting, and he hopped in the tractor and told me to follow him to grandpas house.

It's not that they aren't possible, it's that the airplane isn't certified to do, so pilots never attempt it. All airplanes can do some aerobatics, but they may not hold together for too many.

Why would a legitimate, non-suicidal pilot over-stress an airframe to lose their job and risk their life?

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igloofu@reddit

Why would a legitimate, non-suicidal pilot over-stress an airframe to lose their job and risk their life?

Well:

Sometimes you just gotta sell some planes.

Tex Johnston, probably

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Thebraincellisorange@reddit

I reckon if you started to barrel roll an A380 at 40000, you are still going to hit the ground.

phatRV@reddit

I think American WW2 pilots had at least 300 hours before they could be deployed to war. That was a lot of hours before combat.

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petaboil@reddit

Damn! Grew up on stories of kids maybe getting 5 hours before being sent up over the channel in a hurricane in the UK with a pat on the back and a promise of tea on landing.

I didn't know US pilots were so thoroughly trained, but the disparity in urgency makes sense I guess.

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phatRV@reddit

I cannot believe 5 hours is correct. Even kamikazi pilots had 25-35 hours before they were allowed to make their final mission

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petaboil@reddit

Y'know what, i'm in my 30s now, and growing up I heard figures as low as 5, often about 10, from so many different places that I assumed it was just true.

So I just checked and per the IWM's materials...

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/listen-to-raf-pilots-tell-the-story-of-the-battle-of-britain

Audio recording tells of pilots who had never flown the type before and had only been up in a hurricane twice before coming to the UK... Less detail about total flying hours, but I guess that's where I get my wires crossed.

I've flown in my own youth, and getting into an unfamiliar type and flying it as it should be isn't inherently easy, even if you know how to fly. It's still impressive to me, that these young men were flying all but unknown aircraft into life or death scenarios, and for sure with many hours less than their US counterparts RE total hours.

Anyways, apologies for the unsubstantiated hyperbole!

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phatRV@reddit

No worry. I think WW2 pilots had very little hours in the type of airplane they went into combat such as the Spitfire, or the P51. However, they all had a lot more hours in primary trainings in lower performance training airplane, learning to fly in formation, basic aerobatics. In America, they learned air-to-air gunnery, ground gunnery, bombing, in the Texan before they transitioned to their final fighter airplanes, either the P47, P51, or P38. The Texan was designed to be challenging to fly because these young pilots would have to learn to fly their front line fighters all by themselves. These fighter airplanes have no back seat. They needed about 40-50 hours in those types of airplane before they are sent into combat. Most did not think it was enough. 29 hours for the British pilots in the Spitfire was low but normal during the war. The sum total hours for an average American pilot was about 300 hours. In reality, even with the low hours in the fighter type, when they were assigned to a squadron, they were paired with more experience pilots so they could learn the art of air combat and to gain experience. They were often sent to less stressful mission to get acclimate before they were sent on to more challenging missions.

Regarding my previous comment, they all had extensive trainings compare to the Axis pilots, the Japanese pilots were the worst at training, due to the shortage of fuel, airplanes, and experience instructors; most of them were killed. In Germany, the suffered the same thing such as lack of fuel, and their airbases were constantly attacked.

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Thebraincellisorange@reddit

In 'Going Solo' by Roald DAhl he was put into a Hurricane with no training in a hurricane at all because there were no training versions. he had to teach himself how to fly it.

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Thebraincellisorange@reddit

Roald Dahl had far less than that before they strapped him into a Hurricane in Africa

but he was british.

If I recall from 'going solo' he had less than 20 hours.

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My_Invalid_Username@reddit

That was at the beginning of the war. Training time decreased as urgency and scarcity increased. Luxurious compared to RAF and Luftwaffe pilots, they got shockingly little training before being thrown to the wolves

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dudeman1018@reddit

This is such a horrible take I don't even know where to start.

Q: Do you have any experience flying taildraggers, let alone bush flying?

Q: Any experience driving tractors?

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-stealthed-@reddit

From what I understand was that atleast during the battle of brittain training was pretty minimal. Of atleast minimal flight hours. The germans were better trained at the time compared to the English, atleast at the start of the war. The Americans were also better trained. Still I'd still think minimal training was still quite extensive, you still need to learn to navigatie, need general aviation technique etc to safety take off, navigatie to the target and land afterwards.

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Competitive_Run_3920@reddit

these people also arent flying at high enough altitudes or in areas where they would have to deal with commercial air traffic which greatly simplifies things.

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AKraiderfan@reddit

Plenty of incidents.

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Snobben90@reddit

Not being licensed is not the same as not being thought...

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railker@reddit

General aviation is a big deal up in Alaska.

Even extends legally too, though I've never quite looked into the actual law itself or its history, now I'm curious:

If you've ever been so bored or required to read through the contents of an FAA issued Airworthiness Directive, somewhere in there is typically the blurb, "For the reasons discussed above, I certify that this AD: [...] (2) Will not affect intrastate aviation in Alaska."

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ranger_steve@reddit

When I lived there in the 80’s, a lot of the FARs listing requirements for pilots or mechanics to do this or do that, ended up”…except in Alaska”, or something similar to that language. I saw a float plane takeoff from Lake Hood loaded down with plywood sheets strapped across his floats. He was headed out west and practically flew between two hangers as he couldn’t get much higher until he was out aways over the inlet and then Fire Island.

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juanmlm@reddit

Lifehack: if you get some plywood sheets warped just the right way, you can even get some extra lift for free, thus saving you some gas.

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ForeverYonge@reddit

Google triplane pictures for reference

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n365pa@reddit

Thats almost a daily occurrence. Throw a restricted tag in the window, load up the plywood, and full send. Got to get that stuff to the cabin somehow and the spreader bars works great. I love that a lot of my cub’s mods had “STC not legal outside the state of Alaska”.

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obscht-tea@reddit

unless there was an incident

When the bush pilot says he hasn’t been to town in 30 years

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W00DERS0N60@reddit

Saw this in upper Maine as well.

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bigbyte_es@reddit

In Spain, the equivalent of US highway patrol, done the same with an helicopter… and crashed it.

Because yes, Spain is different.

My brother used to play softball in a league in talkeetna Alaska which is pretty remote.

Interesting_Leek4607@reddit

This feels like GTA not gonna lie...

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rabidantidentyte@reddit

Lol this isn't even very remote. I pass this spot all the time

61.989285, -150.050727

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yubathetuba@reddit

There is a tour bus chasing him down at the end. LOL

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Jumpy_Bison_@reddit

This is one of the worse spots and least necessary in the state to exercise his landing rights on. I’m afraid a lot of our useful Alaska exemptions are bound to get taken away when pilots stop using their good judgment because it’s fun or convenient.

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bearlysane@reddit

That’s like… one of the most heavily travelled highways in Alaska?

(I’ve been to Alaska twice, and driven past that spot both times.)

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Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit

“Highway”

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rabidantidentyte@reddit

One of, if not the most. The Glenn Highway/Seward Highway (1) are probably more heavily traveled, but anyone driving to Denali, Fairbanks, or Prudhoe Bay from South Central AK will pass this spot

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NassauTropicBird@reddit

We have differing opinions on what remote means, lol

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rob_s_458@reddit

When I saw the video I thought it might be Talkeetna Spur Rd just after it turns off the Parks Hwy, and maybe the parking lot was the Denali Brewing tasting room.

Feminist_Hugh_Hefner@reddit

What's the cruising speed on that? 20 knots?

rhineauto@reddit

Huh, TIL

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/JgN5DCuTzn

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MeMiceElfAndEye@reddit

That's the place! I think it's the only gas station.

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VirginiaDare1587@reddit

Can you use automotive petrol in aircraft in America?

I thought AvGas was needed to prevent problems at altitude.

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TacTurtle@reddit

A bunch of rural places carry 100LL for general aviation. The gas station near my office sells 87/94 auto / 100LL / diesel 2 / heating kerosene

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

Sure, many aircraft have modifications available to use it. It's not super complicated. Probably a lot of Alaskans didn't even buy a kit, they just run the fuel.

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PendragonDaGreat@reddit

The problem specifically is the ethanol added to most automative gasoline it can seperate with altitude and or temperature changes.

You can get a supplemental type certificate to run ethanol free gasoline in most small planes with no to minimal conversion of anything needed.

Is this legal?

Probably.

How did they land there in the first place?

VeryverySTOL

Yup, them big ol big ass tires got helium in 'em to help him float, why here he is landing at home with them tires.

The FARs do not have any language that would prohibit a landing on a highway. The most important piece to consider is local and state laws. What works in Alaska may not be practical or legal in other states.

Alaska has many locations that do not have a formal airport, thus the need for alternative options to get into these remote locations. The off-airport bush flying scene is no secret in Alaska and actually quite common.

Landing on the road system is not something encouraged by local and state governments, but is not considered illegal. That said, exercising good decision making is required. If a more suitable option is available, other than the road, that would be my choice. I tried to find any official law but, as expected, trying to find a law that doesn't exist isn't possible.

However, I did find this. Apparently, at least during summer, you must carry this equipment in your aircraft to be legal:

rations for each occupant sufficient to sustain life for one week;
one axe or hatchet;
one first aid kit;
an assortment of tackle such as hooks, flies, lines, and sinkers;
one knife;
fire starter;
one mosquito head net for each occupant;
two small signalling devices such as colored smoke bombs, railroad fuses, or Very pistol shells, in sealed metal containers;

During winter, you must carry all of the above plus:

one pair of snowshoes;
one sleeping bag;
one wool blanket or equivalent for each occupant over four.

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SvenEDT@reddit

You cannot take off on a highway.

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Background_Trade8607@reddit

Maybe take a day and try it yourself.

GieckPDX@reddit

That thing has got some LIFT

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desertrat75@reddit

That thing took off like a Harrier.

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TheTalentedAmateur@reddit

"Got it. Two burgers, medium. One no onion, one extra pickles. One salad, 1 fries, ranch on the side. Is that for here or to go?"

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Sigma--6@reddit

And I thought boating to a restaurant was cool....

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sokkadada@reddit

Taylor Swift

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k3llybr00k@reddit

I love this sm

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Full-Association-175@reddit

Lousy tipper got shorted on fuel - will be on the ground shortly.

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To answer the two questions in the description:

Yeah idk if this is illegal, but having lived there, this it the kind of shit people will do.
The same way they took off.

HawkeyeAP@reddit

If you look closely, you'll see the building isn't engulfed in the dust cloud. The pilot is a little past it.

Bush pilots tend to be very considerate of places like this. The next place to go might be a lot further. They don't want to show up and have someone tell them "you were a complete ass last time, were not serving you anymore."

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BabiesatemydingoNSW@reddit

IIRC they stopped there to get gas.

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FashionableIgnoramus@reddit

I rode the train. Hunters would get on at random spots. Just flag the train down where there's no cell service.

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Kucharelli@reddit

Good lord that thing was going like 20 mph and it lifted up like nothing! That shit made out of paper or what?

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CharAznableLoNZ@reddit

As far as I'm aware, Alaska has some special rules due to the remoteness of the region allowing planes to land on, take-off from roadways as long as it's done in a safe manner.

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

Alaska has some special rules due to the remoteness of the region

More accurately, it's a case of there aren't rules.

There's still "catch-alls" of being dangerous to others, though.

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MegamemeSenpai@reddit

Didn’t stop at the stop sign… 🛑

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ImaginaryMolasses185@reddit

Planes in alaska also have right of way.

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JebKerman420@reddit

Dumb question from a non-aviator: if they land there, spend 30 or 40 min in the restaurant, does the pilot need to test the fuel before flight? are there shortened preflight procedures for short stops, or should you just do everything no matter how short of a stop you make?

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

does the pilot need to test the fuel before flight?

No. You do a fuel test when it's the first time you're flying that day. They only thing the test checks is if there's water in the fuel.

The test is done because if the tanks are filled when humidity is high, it can condense in the tank.

are there shortened preflight procedures for short stops, or should you just do everything no matter how short of a stop you make?

Not really. Many people will walk around, but the full preflight checklist isn't needed.

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UltramanOrigin@reddit

I’m sure they have studied where all the power lines are.

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dcss_bluess@reddit

Restaurant sign be like: “Skip the drive-thru buzz through our Fly-Thru and enjoy your Fly-n-Dine experience!” 😂😂

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Dyanpanda@reddit

Alaska has 700,000 people in huge area. Like, that is 1/3rd of the population of the san fernando valley in los angeles, in a massive area the size of California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Utah and Nevada combined.

Its really not an issue if youre not in town to find some space to do this.

I definitely didn't expect it to take off that soon. Was that even 50 meters? Just wow

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

There's a lot of lot of planes in Alaska built for short takeoffs and landings. There's a yearly competition. In the last few years, there was a plane with about a 15 foot landing roll.

Some of these STOL aircraft can land and take off in a 60-meter patch. The pilot may have just waited until there was an opening to land. Hell, they may have gotten gas when they were getting lunch.

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HawkeyeAP@reddit

they may have gotten gas when they were getting lunch

Damn it, now I have "East Bound and Down" stuck in my head

Unlikely_Try3848@reddit

This is crazy 😂😂

SultanOfSwave@reddit

Albuquerque in New Mexico used to have several general aviation airports back in the 50s and 60s.

Long distances of empty encourage flying.