Why do the mods lock posts that break no rules?
Posted by GeorgiaPilot172@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 93 comments
Recently, I made a post here regarding the doxxing of airline pilots. It was locked after only an hour.
Reviewing the rules of this subreddit, there were no rules that it broke. I’ve seen a trend of this happening as well, where any post seemingly against the ideology of the mods is locked.
Can we get a mod to publicly explain why these posts, that seemingly break no rules of the subreddit, are consistently locked? I see no issue in having open discussion regarding matters that can directly concern pilots. If this post gets locked as well, that would be very telling.
Shickacka@reddit
Mods are always those nerds who didn’t achieve anything in life and get a kick out of exerting their made up power by locking posts they don’t like.
Headoutdaplane@reddit
You were the jock, huh? Congrats on your letter.. in high school?.
Shickacka@reddit
Homeless foster kid in high school actually. No money for sports.
Headoutdaplane@reddit
Wow, pulled yourself up high enough to be judgmental of the "nerds" that volunteer to keep this sub going.
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I’m not a mod here but I run a pretty big social media forum elsewhere, for pilots. So speaking for myself only, not these folks, I’ll offer my blunt take.
Unlike every other hellish corner of social media, I am adamant that the cancer of today’s failed, corrupted, dishonesty-based politics culture not invade the spirit of that group. My approach is even stricter than the standard here. You can at least post a mild question here and some comments will be permitted for a while, before locking. I don’t even allow that. In my group, if you post even one mention of a topic that touches upon a politically controversial feelings, the post is deleted. Zero tolerance.
On the post you wrote that was locked, I’m actually on your side on the politics of the issue. But that’s not the point. If I were to speak freely on a controversial subject, some person who voted differently is going to speak freely too. And what happens then? I’ll tell you what: a shit show.
My strategy has worked, really well. People who would probably want to strangle each other if they knew each others’ politics are actually all super friendly to each other, over a shared love of airplane stuff. Now how cool is that?
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
Who monitors your strategy?
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
Me. 😂
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
So even if it's wrong, it's right? Nice
EchoKiloEcho1@reddit
If only you had the ability to create and grow a forum with rules that you prefer…
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I honestly don’t care if someone thinks I’m wrong, in my moderation decisions. Because I earnestly try to be as fair and consistent as possible, members clearly approve and stick around. If you’re going to be a jerk as a mod, then people would just leave.
The difficulty for mods on Reddit is the sheer volume. This group has over 400,000 joined members, and that’s why they have multiple mods, and even then it’s pretty hard to weed out rude and unwanted comments. That’s life.
Ok-Selection4206@reddit
"I honestly dont care."
That statement speaks volumes.....
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
Yep it does. If you were a member of the group and you didn’t like having a dictatorial moderator who bans politics, you’re free to leave it. Most dictators don’t allow their citizens to do that either but let’s not get too philosophical about this. 😂
GeorgiaPilot172@reddit (OP)
See, I am ok with your strategy. As long as it is a known rule and applied fairly that is fine. When it is up to the interpretation of someone where some stuff is allowed but other stuff isn’t with no justification, then you get into the unfair territory where it seems like an ideology is being pushed.
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
My policy in my group is so harshly zero tolerance that it’s kind of inherently fair to everyone. I’ve deleted plenty of posts making points that I politically agreed with. It’s easy to do when I know that the standard is so harsh, and therefore easy to interpret. I just ask: Is this about airplanes? And even if yes, is it going to result in a bunch of left and right back and forth that’s not about airplanes? When in doubt, delete.
This group does the same thing fairly well despite being so large. If I read politics bullshit constantly here, I’d leave. If I want politics, I’ve got my preferred podcasts. I come here to randomly indulge in airplane stuff.
EchoKiloEcho1@reddit
Thank you for protecting a little pocket of civility online. Such spaces are extremely valuable.
ResilientBiscuit@reddit
It's nice that people can get along. But when I want to know what I should ask my representative to do about a policy or nomination it is really harmful.
I don't like making decisions just based on gut feelings. I want to know, for example, what decisions Bedford made when he was in charge of an airline that affected the pilots and that isn't easy information to find other than asking pilots. Living in a smallish town, the only place I can really do that is online.
But when political discussion is banned I have no real way of talking to others to get well I formed about viewpoints when making political decisions that will impact flying.
We don't all need to agree, and if you can't be civil you should be banned. But I think that not talking about politics when it so greatly impacts flying is really harmful and it isn't worth it to keep people around who would be a raging asshole if someone disagree with them politically. I think the community is fine losing those people.
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I actually think you raise good points, and it brings to mind that you should consider creating your own sub-Reddit for this gap in ability to talk about those issues. Call it flying-political-topics or something. Moderate it aggressively to keep rude behavior out. Seems win win to me.
Chicago_Blackhawks@reddit
Mods mad someone celebrating another persons death might lose their job I guess
phlflyguy@reddit
I had a post removed when I referred to the TFR in Bedminster, NJ as the "Trump TFR". I guess this comment will also get deleted.....
kdbleeep@reddit
If we wanted to censor ideas we don't like, we wouldn't simply lock the post, we'd remove it.
We lock it because most posts that have even a hint of politics, get bombarded by people who want to push some political agenda.
Locking it but keeping it up is an attempt to protect it from trolls.
GeorgiaPilot172@reddit (OP)
Thank you for your response.
If this is the case, and this is a genuine question, why not make a blanket no politics rule to enforce evenly and fairly?
Without one, it makes it seem arbitrary as to what is locked and what isn’t.
kdbleeep@reddit
We want to be able to talk about politics when:
These two conditions are very rare.
lil_layne@reddit
I like turtles
DrRob@reddit
Speaking for myself, I think I prefer the bespoke approach of allowing some discussions to roll freely, locking others at a certain point when smoke rises, and maybe just nuking others entirely. It's not easy or fun being a mod. The post you made is really important to working US pilots, and of broad interest to the community in or out of the US, so I was glad to read it even if I couldn't jump into the conversation.
cashew929@reddit
This is fair, and this sub is better moderated than 99% of reddit subs. No one wants to hear your politcs on here, and many ain't even in the same country as you.
TemporaryAmbassador1@reddit
Imma hijack the top comment to spread my ideology real quick here….
Longer over nights, shorter duty days, crew meals that more closely resemble actual food.
Ok, I’m done.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
A lot of mods are very political.
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
You mean like that one mod who isn’t a mod anymore?
u/grumpycfi
FlyingShadow1@reddit
That goes against what some of the mods have said about trying to keep this as an apolitical space.
OnToNextStage@reddit
No! No! Not grumpycfi
He was so helpful and one of the best people on this sub.
Very knowledgeable and contrary to the name was kind and understanding with people asking questions!
What did he do to get removed?
FlyingShadow1@reddit
Said that he didn't like you know who, he didn't say anything malicious from what I saw.
Someone found out who he was and alerted his airline. He's an ALPA rep there. As a result he got put on leave or such, he since deleted his account.
The people who complained about cancel culture so much just went and did it in return.
FoozleNugget@reddit
You think calling someone a Nazi and then saying the best kind of Nazi, a dead Nazi, and reality is better off with him dead is not malicious?
mild-blue-yonder@reddit
Oh and don’t forget the kicker ‘and I mean what I just said. I chose my words carefully’ (paraphrasing from memory)
FlyingShadow1@reddit
That's not the comment I saw. If that's the case then you could argue it's malicious, however that same commentator is on record making hateful statements.
Why is it that one is punished socially and the other never was? Just because of who's in political power? That's what it comes off like and that kind of division destroys us as a nation.
mild-blue-yonder@reddit
Don’t really wanna wade too far into this cause I’m not particularly interested in changing hearts and minds but are we talking about the dead guy not being punished socially? Cause y’know.. getting shot for your words is a kinda harsh social punishment.
tomdarch@reddit
Keep in mind that Vice President Vance described a certain prominent US politician as "a Nazi."
I do not wish death on anyone, but am I a horrible person for thinking through the facts, weighing the likely outcomes and concluding that the world would probably be better off if Vladimir Putin were to keel over of a heart attack today?
J0E_Blow@reddit
Saying something you don’t like is too political to prevent people talking about it is a political tactic.
Go_Loud762@reddit
Voldemort?
FlyingShadow1@reddit
He might as well have been considering he was sowing division in our nation and further polarizing us.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
What is political about doxing airline pilots
Headoutdaplane@reddit
Were they doxed for their political views?
ducky2000@reddit
They were doxed for celebrating murder.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
Please link to a comment celebrating murder. Please link anything celebrating murder.
ducky2000@reddit
"Karma. I'm torn between decrying political violence, and celebrating a dead nazi. Turning Point USA is largely to blame for the rise of Christian nationalism and oppression of minorities/Igbtq in this country, and the rise of MAGA."
"He was a terrible person and the world is probably better without him"
"Rest in piss"
Exact quotes. I won't link it but you can find it on Twitter by searching Delta. Definitely not celebrating, right?
Fast-Government-4366@reddit
By this logic, Charlie Kirk celebrated deaths. So defending him is celebrating deaths.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
Correct. It’s not. You have clearly never been to a football game.
ducky2000@reddit
Because that's totally the same thing. Assassinations and sports.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
Ah, sorry, perhaps you’d rather reference the memes and posts about other extrajudicial killings. Since you seem not to understand what celebrating is. And perhaps you’d also like to explain where your outrage was when right wing online personalities were doing the same, and worse.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
I have no idea! that’s what I am asking lol
FlyingShadow1@reddit
What a dense question but I'll entertain it!
Because if you're checking every airline pilot's social media to see if they said something negative about a commentator from your political party (not even malicious, just saying something like "Why did we put flags at half staff for this guy but not for the assassinated legislators in MI?") and then using that information to try to get people kicked out from a job is a form of political censorship.
The right-wing constantly talked about the dangers of cancel culture but now some on those side are actually trying to cancel people from jobs because they said something that they don't like.
We should be free to disagree in this nation, regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum. Otherwise when the tables turn and the majority becomes the minority these same tactics can be used in return further fueling the polarization of our nation.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
Yes. "We are free to disagree unless you disagree with the right" is up there with "freedom to fail" as Orwellian bs.
DuelingPushkin@reddit
The political aspect is why they are being doxxed
ResilientBiscuit@reddit
Nothing if that was all that was happening. But currently doxxing is happening because people are working hard to get people fired if they said something on social media that was unkind towards Charlie Kirk. That is political.
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
Oh well if that’s what we are talking about I agree with the mods
That’s kinda stupidly unrelated to flying
SerbianRief@reddit
Golden Rule of Reddit: Mods are very political
hoppertn@reddit
But are they my politics??? j/k
MyNameIsPS@reddit
By locking it aren't they keeping politics out of the subreddit? It's not like they straight removed it.
BrtFrkwr@reddit
By locking it they shut down the discussion because it was going in a direction they didn't like.
MyNameIsPS@reddit
"Discussion" is a little generous. Its a screenshot of a shit-stirrer on X stirring the shit and once it got hostile it was shut down.
AmericanFromAsia@reddit
If your post breaks rules then it gets removed, not locked. If the comments consistently break rules and overwhelm the mod staff's their ability to moderate them, the comments get locked.
kdbleeep@reddit
Well said.
RegionalJet@reddit
The mods will lock any post that becomes remotely political, even if those political issues directly affect aviation. There's no rule in the sub that says we can't discuss political aviation topics, but the mods are always quick to lock them without saying why. I've pointed this out in a reply to one of this sub's mods before and they didn't answer or provide any further explanation.
tomdarch@reddit
Politics affects aviation.
(Also, speaking specifically of US citizens, we have a civic duty to participate in our democracy and I think that extends to earnestly discussing politics where it applies.)
mkosmo@reddit
I don't blame them. When things start pointing that way, conversation devolves into nothing useful but stabbing, shouting, and fighting. It's not conducive to community building.
RegionalJet@reddit
If that's the case, then they should explain why the thread was removed, and have a rule that specifically says it's not allowed. I can only assume they don't have a rule against it so that they can allow some political discussions, but remove the ones they don't agree with. That may not be the case, but that's the only conclusion I can come to when they refuse to explain why.
mkosmo@reddit
I moderate a large sub. We don't have a "no politics" rule because that's a bit too much - politics are a part of everything. But we do remove threads that start going the wrong way or start weaponizing politics...
But I'm not going to write that as a formal rule, either, because then some other folks will claim I'm using it to censor specific views. No, we shut down anything, no matter the names, positions, or leanings.
The fact of the matter is the mods don't have to actually publish any rules. The MCoC recommends it, but the mods could (while remaining in compliance with the MCoD) mod with a random number generator for anything that wasn't a site-wide rule violation.
At least they are trying to keep it on-topic here. I can appreciate that.
RegionalJet@reddit
If you have the rule written, when someone accuses you of censoring, you can point to the rule to justify why the thread was removed. Regardless, I don't think it really matters that much if someone accuses you of that, especially since you said you're still removing threads anyway.
I do appreciate the sub staying on topic, but I just don't think some flying related topics should be off limits just because they're also political. If a thread starts to get out of hand, I understand locking it, but that hasn't been the case for most of the ones the mods have been nuking.
672Antarctica@reddit
Because all mods on Reddit are 15-year old power trippers. They'll ban you if they see you commenting on other Subs they don't like. I've seen entire lines of replies get removed.
Sometimes the bans get reversed, with no explanation. A mod's friend can get away with murder, and someone else gets blocked for complaining.
It's how Reddit is.
hoppertn@reddit
I mean it’s kinda like how life works too isn’t it? Different standards for different people? Why would Reddit be any different?
New-IncognitoWindow@reddit
You’ll never guess what political party the mod identifies with.
ResilientBiscuit@reddit
It seems that anything remotely political gets locked.
When the FAA nominated Bedford, I wanted to know what airline pilots thought of him and what his impact on aviation would be. But the thread discussing the nomination was locked saying it should be discussed in r/politics.
But no one over there knows anything about flying so that would be useless.
I find it really frustrating that we can't discuss things that are political despite major impacts on flying.
andrewclarkson@reddit
I agree but OTOH there are just too many people who can't handle these discussions with maturity and civility. I fully understand why mods wouldn't want to deal with all that and why some people appreciate spaces where they can get away from it.
ResilientBiscuit@reddit
So ban people who can't be civil. Let people who care about flying, can be civil and who want to be involved in political decision making around it have their discussions.
voretaq7@reddit
It's very easy to say "Just police it and ban people" when you're not in the mod seat - the Internet is a fucking sewer, and scooping shit fast enough to keep this place from filling up with turds would be a full time (unpaid) job.
There are times I don't fully agree with the mod team's decision to lock some posts (not just on this sub, and especially when the post has attracted a few good discussion comments before the lock), but I'm also not volunteering my time to do the work of moderating any of the subs I participate in, so I'm not going to tell them what be doin' the work how to herd the turds...
OOF-MY-PEE-PEE@reddit
it’s so ridiculous when politics that directly affect any given subject of a subreddit are silenced.
GeorgiaPilot172@reddit (OP)
Agreed, that is part of the reason I made this post.
I can see political comments getting nasty, but in my opinion the people making nasty comments should be warned while the rest of the group of pilots can discuss relevant topics civilly.
AWACS_Bandog@reddit
Remember kids. Jannies do it for free
Baystate411@reddit
because one got kicked in the dick and may lose his job
nascent_aviator@reddit
Rules aren't a checklist. I'm not a mod here, but I've been a mod elsewhere. Sometimes you need to shut down a post because the discussion it spawns is toxic, or it's encouraging rule-breaking in the comments, or it's just creating too much work for a small mod team. Transparency is always nice when that's the case.
That said in this particular case your post looks like a pretty clear rule 3 violation.
Anthem00@reddit
I was disappointed it was locked. Especially since this is mostly anonymous anyhow. But I was wondering how many people were stupid enough to post something controversial on social media and lose their job over it. . . somehow we think that "free speech" applies to everything. It does in that you supposedly wont get arrested for it, but it doesnt apply to private entities/employment. . . but hey, some people are too stupid to know that. . .
10FourGudBuddy@reddit
I deleted Facebook around 2017, never really used instagram/snapchat or anything else. Heck I took a long break from reddit.
The trick is not putting everything online like those people that post 4+ times a day or people like my ex that have a victim complex that also proceed to not see their children for over 8 years while occasionally posting how much they miss them even though they don’t make an effort or call (which they are legally allowed).
((Jokes aside and funny near trauma dump that is hilarious because it’s true and honestly for the best, people do be sharing way too much.))
ResoluteFalcon@reddit
I'd say Rule 6 and Rule 9.
Difficult-While-7673@reddit
Not endorsing the celebration of murder is political now?
Go_Loud762@reddit
Rule 6 says "reserved," so it isn't a rule.
Rule 9 says mods have final say. That's the one that really matters.
fungus909@reddit
They look like the cat a caveman would have
Odd_Importance_2446@reddit
Power hungry
BChips71@reddit
The mods will lock this thread in three... two...
JoshFlak@reddit
Probably will just get deleted lol
MadeForThisOnePostt@reddit
I really want a Mod to lock this post for comedic purposes 😭😭😭
Mispelled-This@reddit
In before this post gets locked…
T0gaLOCK@reddit
I was curious as well. Not sure why it would be locked unless it was because it could possibly get too political. Probably stays up, but locked to keep from arguing in the comments.
GeorgiaPilot172@reddit (OP)
Potentially, but if that is the case there should be an explicit “no politics” rule. Otherwise it just seems like ideological censorship in my opinion.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Recently, I made a post here regarding the doxxing of airline pilots. It was locked after only an hour.
Reviewing the rules of this subreddit, there were no rules that it broke. I’ve seen a trend of this happening as well, where any post seemingly against the ideology of the mods is locked.
Can we get a mod to publicly explain why these posts, that seemingly break no rules of the subreddit, are consistently locked? I see no issue in having open discussion regarding matters that can directly concern pilots. If this post gets locked as well, that would be very telling.
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