ULPT Request. Someone I know supports mass deportation "because they don't pay taxes" yet they work at a restaurant where 90% of staff work under the table. How i report them or the business to the IRS for tax evasion?
Posted by Ryanchri@reddit | UnethicalLifeProTips | View on Reddit | 105 comments
SnooPandas1899@reddit
"don't pay taxes" ?
trump, show the ppl your tax returns.
same for fortune 500 companies.
UnethicalLifeProTips-ModTeam@reddit
Your post or comment was removed for violating rule 12: No politics.
EzyPzyLemonSqeezy@reddit
So you're going to betray all your fellow co-workers cause orange man bad.
This fkn generation.
Pleasant-Regular6169@reddit
Actually, most DO pay taxes. Often illegal immigrant work with 'borrowed' SSNs or TINs. Taxes are withheld automatically. The biggest irony here is that THEIR TAXES help keep the social security system SOLVENT because they contribute but don't have the right to collect!
Moreover, they pay taxes on anything hey purchase in a store, like you and me... If they own a home, they pay local taxes, and on and on and on....
https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
MET1@reddit
"work with 'borrowed' SSNs or TINs" - that's causing issues for the ones whose identity has been stolen. It's a huge pain to deal with.
jrhiggin@reddit
What happens to the people that the borrowed SSN's belong to?
Badger118@reddit
Genuine question as I am not from the US, how can somebody own a home and pay taxes without their immigration status coming up as an issue?
Nervous-Owl5878@reddit
Why would your immigration status come up for owning a home? You don’t need to be a citizen or even a legal resident to own a home?
Pleasant-Regular6169@reddit
Re: owning a home
Example: one partner is legal, the other isn't (yet), they live in a home and the local taxes are a shared burden.
Example: Anyone with a work visa can purchase a home, eg H1b (well-educated, typically higher wages), and so can anyone with a green-card. Both visa and/or green-card can and do expire.
After expiration, the person is out-of-status and 'illegal' (ignoring the intricacies of what is illegal vs out of status for convenience) yet they own a home and pay taxes on it.
Example: foreigners without a work visa can invest in US real estate, buy a pied-a-terre, pay taxes, and secretly stick around after a vacation visit.
There are many examples of rich people who worked and stayed in the country illegally, for instance "Elno Muks" and Drumpfs original family. These may be bad examples, they don't pay their fair share of taxes. 🙂
ShrimpSherbet@reddit
Yes. Thank you. Immigrants pay more taxes than billionaires. Immigrants collect zero money from social security, whereas billionaires get tax breaks. Immigrants don't get tax breaks. It's not that hard to understand. This isn't a Republican vs Democrat issue, it's a rich vs non-rich issue. While we plebes fight amongst ourselves, the rich keep getting richer because we're not doing anything about it.
HamsterIV@reddit
Hush, you are ruining their rage boners.
raduque@reddit
Do they work under the table?
I would report the business as a whole - let the IRS sort everybody out.
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
Yes. Yes they do.
nikdahl@reddit
Note that there is a reward for this sort of information as well.
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
I'm not in it for the reward. Just pure spite and pettiness.
mister_nimbus@reddit
So you're going to destroy the lives of everyone working there just because you're petty?
ScreamingAtLemons@reddit
If people don't want to get in trouble for tax fraud then they shouldn't commit tax fraud.
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
Unethical life pro tips
backerwell@reddit
Taking the reward makes it unethical to a friend. So take the reward
Nubian_Cavalry@reddit
Take the reward anyway. You need it
wawa2022@reddit
I like your style
BusyAccountant7@reddit
You don't get an award for filing Form 3949-A. You get an award if you file Form 211 with the IRS's Whistleblower's Office.
kittenconfidential@reddit
are there innocent others who may get swept up in job loss because of reporting the whole business just to get at this one person?
attackbat33@reddit
https://www.irs.gov/help/tax-scams/report-a-tax-scam-or-fraud
BusyAccountant7@reddit
Weird that they don't mention Form 211 on there. Form 211 is what you file if you want a reward.
raduque@reddit
https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-3949-a
I would print it and mail it in, it would probably get attention that way.
mordecai98@reddit
Send it by carrier pigeon.
ATLien_3000@reddit
Those get attention either way; online submission is fine and likely dumps straight into the same database that a mailed form is going to be manually entered into by some GS-5.
raduque@reddit
Well, my thinking is that having somebody have to physically open the form and manually type it into the computer would give it more attention
ATLien_3000@reddit
It doesn't.
The person opening it is not a person that can do anything about it.
Physical mail just adds more opportunities for something to get lost; by the time it gets to the person that can do something it all looks the same.
raduque@reddit
Makes sense
IntroductionNeat2746@reddit
Am i wrong for taking this to mean performing sex acts?
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
Yes you're wrong. It's just waitresses and bartenders
IntroductionNeat2746@reddit
I thought it was clear. I'm not saying that's what it is, I'm saying my mind took it otherwise.
raduque@reddit
lol, i see what you mean now - under the table BJs or HJs
IntroductionNeat2746@reddit
Am I really that much dirtier minded than average?
Otterman2006@reddit
No you just don’t know what the colloquial phrase “under the table” means
IntroductionNeat2746@reddit
Jesus, the internet can be annoying. I should have used the word "perverted" instead of "wrong", but can you guys really not understand my point?
Objective-Amount1379@reddit
Yes, it’s just not funny or interesting
raduque@reddit
🤷♂️
Mk1fish@reddit
Abolish the federal income tax. Then there is no need to worry about who is dodging the fascist taxes well or slightly against arbitrary rules.
ATLien_3000@reddit
I think you're posting on the wrong sub.
Nothing is unethical about reporting someone for cheating on his taxes.
shartymcqueef@reddit
Depends on how much boot you lick. Plenty of arguments to be made as to why taxes are unethical.
Fickle_Finger2974@reddit
Not any good ones
shartymcqueef@reddit
Says the bootlicker.
Fickle_Finger2974@reddit
Libertarians are like a dog chasing cars, they wouldn’t know what to do if they caught one
shartymcqueef@reddit
I am not a libertarian. Ya know what they say about assumptions.
beastpilot@reddit
Shrodingers libritarianisim. When you know being called
raduque@reddit
I think they're asking if it's unethical to rat out a friend who also happens to be a hypocrite.
Feeling-Visit1472@reddit
A friend who apparently doesn’t even own the restaurant? Not sure why we’re firing strays.
wishiwasholden@reddit
That’s what I’m wondering. I wish I could convince people it’s not about party, it’s about class. If this other person just works there, they’re in the same boat at the end of the day. Like I get it, you’re angry at them, and this is ULPT so I’m not judging, but so many more people get hurt by this than just OP’s opp.
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
Pretty much yeah that's the unethical part
kalixanthippe@reddit
The unethical part is wanting to stick it to your obnoxious friend due to his positive mass deportation stance by calling down ICE to do a mass deportation event.
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
There is no mass deportation happening. I don't even think they have undocumented immigrants. Worst case is the restaurant gets audited.
kalixanthippe@reddit
So your stance is there is no mass deportation and you think they do not have undocumented immigrants. Okeys.
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
Uh no. My stance is THERE is mass deportation happening around the country but it won't happen if i report this to the IRS because the restaurant's employees are all snobby white people.
kalixanthippe@reddit
Interesting.
Well clearly you have a way forward and have thought of every avenue of consequence, including for those "snobby" white people, who have to work under the table for some reason, and will soon be unemployed and potentially handed an IRS bill as well.
Have at it!
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the blessing. It will :)
kalixanthippe@reddit
Its funny how Im getting downvoted for cheering you on. I guess pointing out how you underestimated your unethical behavior's depth and breadth isn't a popular opinon.
Intelligent_Formal_2@reddit
I'm not quite sure you grasp what sub you're on right now.
kalixanthippe@reddit
I do, and there's not /s there. He was underestimating how unethical his plan was, and I just wanted him to fully grasp how.much he understood the brief already without needing advice.
idiomblade@reddit
r/KnockedOffTheirHighHorse lol
stoiclibertine@reddit
What you're looking for is called IRS Form 3949-A. Fill that out,mail it in and wait for the fireworks to start.
BusyAccountant7@reddit
It would be better to file Form 211. That's the Whistleblower form. If they audit him and collect money from it, you could get 15-30% of whatever is collected. That makes it even more fun!
thatbrownkid19@reddit
Do you not have to be part of the organization and be reasonably afraid of retaliation? Idk how Form 211 works specifically but that’s how whistleblowers usually are right
BusyAccountant7@reddit
No, not for tax evasion. You just have to have information about someone cheating on their taxes. People turn in their neighbors, their employers, their exes, family members, you name it. It helps to write a clear description of what you know, especially if you have a timeline for what they did. Put as much detail as you know. And if you have documents to back up what you know, attach them to the form.
As for retaliation, the IRS has strict rules about protecting the identity of whistleblowers. Whoever you report will never know it was you.
Oh, and I do recommend keeping a copy of the form and any attachments for your records. You may need it. It can take 10 years or more for the whole process to be complete and for you to get an award, but free money is free money!
Vast_Rest_4988@reddit
Unless the taxing authority uses the tax revenue unethically
ATLien_3000@reddit
That's not how it works.
VortexIdol@reddit
basically yeah
kpop_void@reddit
yeah agreed. actually reporting tax evasion is... pretty ethical? especially when someone's being hypocritical about it. the irony is almost too perfect (restaurant worker complaining about people not paying taxes while literally not paying taxes)
BowlMaster83@reddit
Don’t report. Taxation is theft.
Ok_Vulva@reddit
If you're in state with state taxes, you can also report them to the state tax bureau. I've done this before. The feds didn't care, and the state did, they followed through hard-core.
Binders-Full@reddit
Yes, state sales tax evasion is usually treated very harshly.
Ok_Vulva@reddit
I meant state income tax tho
molivergo@reddit
Not unethical.
The IRS has a hot line for this. I think you/reporter can get a reward for both the business and people not paying taxes.
BusyAccountant7@reddit
Yes, you can! Just file Form 211. It does take a long time to get an award if you're eligible (like 10 years sometimes) but you can get 15-30% of whatever is collected.
glavent@reddit
I worked as a contractor for the IRS and still keep in touch with someone who works for them.
The short answer is that the IRS doesn’t care about incoming reports because a vast majority are “revenge” reports that waste resources on a wild goose hunt.
The IRS sticks to those that their system generates as auditable. They have enough work chasing those and don’t have time to go after wild chases.
Also with the cuts being made, they now are going to do a blanket audit of casting a wide net and hoping people just pay whatever is on the auto generated letter. Those who fight it have a very good chance of walking away but really it’s the easiest way for them to collect without using over whelmed auditors.
So although it may feel good to report them, it doesn’t go anywhere
BusyAccountant7@reddit
Oh, I disagree. If you file Form 211 or Form 3949-A, it will be taken seriously. It's true that not all claims of tax evasion end in an audit. But that's usually because the info given is hard to understand or doesn't have a lot of detail.
I also know that claims of return preparer misconduct are taken seriously too. The only problem is that most of the time, the amounts of lost taxes in those cases is too low to warrant the time it would take to investigate.
The IRS doesn't send notices of tax deficiency randomly. There has to be some basis for the notice to get sent.
Binders-Full@reddit
Under the table businesses are also probably not paying business and sales taxes. I would also report your state tax bureau and city, if they charge business taxes.
markshure@reddit
I know someone who does this. Doesn't it mean that when she's old, she basically won't get social security because she technically isn't working?
imokay4747@reddit
I don't believe that's how any of this works
markshure@reddit
How does it work?
imokay4747@reddit
Can't tell if I'm being trolled. SSI is provided whether you worked in your life or not
markshure@reddit
But the amount is determined by how much you made / contributed. I'm not trolling. I just can't believe my friend works off the books. She could get audited.
BusyAccountant7@reddit
Yes, she could get audited. It kind of depends on how much she's making and if she's making large cash purchases or depositing large amounts of money in the bank. The IRS does have ways of finding out that people are making money under the table. And you're right, the amount you get in SSI is determined by how much income is reported to Social Security. So she'll get peanuts.
Hey, you could report her on Form 211 to the IRS and get an award! jk
Binders-Full@reddit
SSI is welfare for old people. But you literally have to have less than $2,000 in assets.
TheNortoriusPIG@reddit
It must be complicated
markshure@reddit
I believe they take the average of your highest earning 30 years, and that determines what you get. If you don't work 30 full years, they still divide by 30.
ShrimpSherbet@reddit
Technically she will get social security, but it will be peanuts. But yes, she'll get something.
ceciliabee@reddit
Yes, that's when it's time to whine that immigrants are taking all the ss
Nawwwm@reddit
Just call Ice, and the investigation will follow with the IRS for tax evasion.
xxvcd@reddit
Do you have proof? If not, don’t waste your time, they trash reports with no evidence attached.
The1TrueRedditor@reddit
We’ll just outsource the jobs Americans won’t do and then pay tariffs.
ilost190pounds@reddit
Do they own the business? Because all the guys working there are getting deported.
kingcolb@reddit
If your going out of your way to screw someone like this regardless of their ideals is some really bad karma.
JTD177@reddit
This is one of my biggest gripes about the immigration debate, conservatives bitch and complain about rounding up workers, but never say anything about the people that employ them. Maybe next time Ice rounds up a few hundred people at a chicken processing plant, they should arrest and prosecute the owners and managers instead
Nice_Category@reddit
I think most conservatives want to prosecute people who knowingly employ illegal immigrants. The problem is that often times they are either unable to check or the immigrants are using other people's identities.
As a conservative myself, fuck those who are dragging down the wages of US citizens. The employer is as guilty as the employee.
aabum@reddit
Why fuck over a bunch of people because you're not mature enough to accept that people have opinions that differ from yours? Here's a good mantra to live by: Don't be a petty douchebag
outsideskyy@reddit
Do you have proof your friend works under the table or just assumptions? If it’s proof then report it. If it’s assumptions then stfu
Ryanchri@reddit (OP)
No proof other than her own word which is enough to me.
Objective-Amount1379@reddit
You can report them and the restaurant but you’ll also be potentially hurting anyone that works there.
Also the IRS is aware lots of restaurants employ undocumented workers. My guess is they won’t act on a tip unless there’s something really interesting or detailed because they could audit most restaurants if they want to bust small employers. It’s very much a look the other way situation, just like the IRS could go after lots of farmers or vineyards for hiring illegal workers. They don’t because the government doesn’t actually want to lose those workers. They pay taxes using fraudulent SSNs, so they pay into systems they’ll never get benefits from. Those workers also help our economy function, and they spend their wages in local towns and that helps local gov
Steemboatwilly@reddit
Who cares what they think about deportation. Report them either way!
must_have_coffee@reddit
Hurting this business will hurt many real people. No real way to inconvenience the owner without screwing the workers there.
Maybe bad reviews.
MacDaddyDC@reddit
start with your municipality, they are absolute bulldogs when they perceive that they aren’t getting their cut. About a week later, report same to the state and then the feds.
Scoutmaster-Jedi@reddit
Reporting to IRS for tax evasion is ethical.
That is not the purpose of this sub.