China bans its biggest tech companies from acquiring Nvidia chips, says report — Beijing claims its homegrown AI processors now match H20 and RTX Pro 6000D
Posted by balianone@reddit | LocalLLaMA | View on Reddit | 236 comments
Amazing_Trace@reddit
With US turning full authoritatian, nobody wants to use US-based anything. India is also funding chip start-ups for homegrown chip companies.
Forsaken-Data4905@reddit
China, a country famously known for being concerned about authoritarianism.
Amazing_Trace@reddit
sigh..
Another person missing the point that it isn't just China.
Not that any other authoritarian regime makes ours any less. Regimes notoriously isolate from each other.
Best-Acanthaceae3876@reddit
I'm Canadian and I'm all for the US and President Trump.
communarded@reddit
That’s cause you aren’t well read
Best-Acanthaceae3876@reddit
Lol what? Yes I am. I have downloaded the truth social app and I keep updated regularly.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Neither truth nor social
Best-Acanthaceae3876@reddit
What?
communarded@reddit
Propaganda isn’t news
Best-Acanthaceae3876@reddit
Dude it's the united states of America. And he's the President. There's no propaganda. Its America after all.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Oh, that's right, they teach "whole word reading" now and kids forget how to play with words
communarded@reddit
Oh, that explains it
GryphticonPrime@reddit
Cool, so you like that our country is getting bullied by them?
If there's something I'll never understand, it's people supporting things that are against their own interests.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
The sign bit fell off of moral valence; it's all about intensity now
Marksta@reddit
US focus on US made, bad. China focus on China made, good.
ProfessionalJackals@reddit
US focus on US made, nothing wrong with that. But, when you want to prevent competition, and start banning Tech to others as a way to protect your own market. Then nobody is surprised that others invest heavily in their own production.
China then makes stuff, China will sell stuff to others at lower prices then the Nvidia Monopoly. So yes, that is bad for the US in the long run.
There is having a long term vision and their is short shortsighted planning. Everybody long time ago predicted that if you block off a country with the manufacturing and general tech knowhow like China, that is NOT SHY from mass government investments (for their own economy and national security). That this country will produce results fast.
Ironically, the US is also playing footsy with Europe and the limitations on how many AI capable GPUs that countries can buy. If the US did a actual ban, there will also be tons of local investment in our own products. But because of ASML, this creates a issue for the US.
I welcome all this mess! Because all these investments from China, India ... will result in more competition in the markets in the long run. I am more then fed up with the constant monopolies. How a lot of our tech depends on just a few companies. X86 CPUs AMD/Intel, GPUs AMD/Nvidia/(miniscule bit Intel), HDD WD/Seagate, ... Even our SSD/NVMEs are very reliant on only a few flash memory makers (see the issue with prices staying way too high for years).
So yes, China focus on China made, good, because it opens the door for more competition for everybody. This will not just be a potential door into AI GPUs but general GPUs, CPUs, Flash, Memory, ... (some Chinese companies are starting to grow in the flash and memory market. I am running some Chinese DDR5, works perfectly fine and way cheaper then the other brands)
Marksta@reddit
The [attempt at] export bans are very short sighted, but I think they were going to manufacture a competitor one way or another eventually anyways. So, with this AI boom it's like a super opportunistic power grab moment 'while you still can' sort of deal. I really hope things go the way you describe it though, being beholden to a monopoly is so bad for us bottom feeding consumers. The HDD monopoly is a sore point, I remember fondly that time there was a minor disturbance at one of the HDD factories and so they all jointly hiked up prices and didn't bring them back down until years later when SSDs came out. That was really messed up.
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
What chips are made in the US? They tend to be older chips AKA "analog" chips. That's what US chip production is known for. And who said that was bad?
Amazing_Trace@reddit
huh? NVIDIA chips are still fabricated in other countries (china/taiwan), they are only US-based/designed.
This isn't about where things are made, its about political influence on companies from the countries they are based in. NVIDIA being publically traded on the US market means easy influence by our government.
Other countries want companies that aren't affected by US policy or more importantly, would be subject to their own policies.
Marksta@reddit
Right, so for all intents and purposes, US-based and US-made means the same thing here.
Somewhere between tariffs, export restrictions, tech and economy war, etc, there is a policy that's pushing for US-based and super ideally, maybe one day fabricated in US. To get called "authoritarian" for that new policy focus, and then turn around and clap for other nations following suit as a good thing is a bad joke.
Amazing_Trace@reddit
When did I say made in US was authoritarian? Maybe read 🥸
jonas-reddit@reddit
You mean Taiwan, Korean and Dutch made?
Marksta@reddit
Who even knows? It's such a tricky situation. If TSMC tells Nvidia no, then it's not made. If Nvidia decided not to order anymore chips from TSMC, then it's not made. Sounds like it must be a US and Taiwan 'made' product. Even more confusing, is this not made 'at home' for China because of how they feel like defining Taiwan, or they recognize the US made part in the manufacturing?
Eastern-Narwhal-2093@reddit
lol, lmao even
fabkosta@reddit
As an end consumer I am looking forward to the increased competition of - hopefully soon to be - high quality GPUs at cheaper prices.
UnderHare@reddit
As a Canadian, I'd much rather buy a Chinese GPU than an american one and support the country not trying to screw us and take us over, until that changes.
Worldly-Cod-2303@reddit
China has repeatedly meddled in Canadian elections wtf are you talking about?
BumbleSlob@reddit
How long ago did Xi Jinping threaten to annex Canada? I think you know the answer you little shit
atineiatte@reddit
Those damn Americans buying all the real estate in BC
entsnack@reddit
lmao seems like you struck a nerve there for people who know
tictactoehunter@reddit
It will go Huaweizm route tho. I'm pretty sure the free market govt will sanction GPUs or call it a national security threat.
itchylol742@reddit
Nvidia GPUs have already been smuggled into China in large quantities, the reverse can happen too
ForsookComparison@reddit
If Nvidia and AMD can't sell in Huawei markers and if it's not crazy to suggest that Huawei can sell in Nvidia and AMD markets (at least the USA) - why would they drive each other to be better? I doubt that Nvidia will suddenly become pro-consumer to win over the EU companies eying Huawei cards.
FieldMouseInTheHouse@reddit
Heck! Even I would buy a Chinese card because I am so sick of the bloated NVIDIA prices! "Ni hao ma, Mother f**kers!"
fabkosta@reddit
You are stating he reason yourself: the world is not just China and the USA. Besides Europe there exists Australia, South America, Africa, etc. Combined together, these markets are not completely irrelevant to both NVIDIA and Huawei. I mean, sure, I am not an oracle, cannot tell the future. But, let’s allow a man his hopes!
Alarmed_Till7091@reddit
Something like 85% of Nvidia's revenue comes from 6 companies (likely: Meta, Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Tesla. All US companies with primarily US based datacenters). The consumer market is essentially irrelevant to GPU manufacturers.
EU/AU/SA/AF just do not have the same demand for data center GPUs as China and the US. Essentially the entire datacenter market is like 12 companies headquartered in two countries.
krste1point0@reddit
15% of $4 trillion is a lot of $$$
Alarmed_Till7091@reddit
They do not have 4T of revenue, that is their market cap. They have around 180B of annual revenue.
And, to be clear, its not like those 6 customers are their only US based customers. Just that 85% of their revenue comes from 6 US based customers (tho I think its 85% of their datacenter revenue, which is 87% of their total revenue). Its entirely possible that 90-98% of their datacenter revenue is US based customers.
If we assume the opposite and 100% of the database customers outside of the top six are non-American companies and \~50% of those customers swapped to Chinese chips, then Nvidia's total revenue would drop by \~4%. Since their YoY growth is currently 55%, they would still be grow 51% in that worst case scenario.
Datacenters are an extremely small customer base with the vast majority of datacenter companies by spending are US or Chinese companies.
The biggest threat to Nvidia's revenue is the datacenter industry getting to capacity, they are making most of this revenue by the fact that datacenters are in a pure growth phase rather than a maintenance phase.
jonas-reddit@reddit
Stock markets and global investors rally. It take a lot of confidence to move markets to four year highs.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-tech-stocks-surge-2021-032622268.html
Alarmed_Till7091@reddit
That is impressive, but still not as overvalued as their US peers, which would imply investors have more confidence in Nvidia overall.
Remember, as I noted above, this is a time where Nvidia is worth 4 trillion dollars. By your standard, it would require a LOT of confidence to go from first trillion dollar company in 2018 to a GPU manufacturer having a 4 trillion dollar market cap as the most valuable company in the world 7 years later.
And of course Chinese tech stocks are rallying during a time where tech stocks are rallying. It would be strange if the only other country to compete with the US on tech were to not rally.
Lesser-than@reddit
We are not there yet but what happens if China's cards become faster to scale along with the cheaper electricity? I think Microsoft and Amazon already have some non-ai datacenter exposure in China.
Alarmed_Till7091@reddit
It would depend on import/export trade restrictions. But generally, you want your datacenter to be housed in the country you are operating in due to privacy and national security laws.
China's internet is segmented off enough from the rest of the internet that using different datacenter hardware for China specifically isn't that huge of a deal, you likely are already providing a different service to the Chinese market anyways. In comparison, using separate datacenter hardware for just like Australia, while your primary market has to be Nvidia or AMD, would likely be not worth the effort for even a pretty high efficiency gain. Even just buying AMD hardware is likely not worth the effort and that's without any threat of import/export bans.
Like, yes, small mom and pop datacenters in the EU or third countries may end up using Chinese chips, but they represent a fraction of a percent of Nvidia's revenue.
Worldly-Cod-2303@reddit
Brazil has a 99% tariff on electronics, literally no one in their right mind would put a AI datacenter here. South America is a complete non-factor for a consumer market in this case.
Walkin_mn@reddit
If you have all the world to sell to, losing "the biggest market" meaning one country, is not that bad. My country for sure would get both and I'm rooting for Huawei to take Nvidia's pie here just because Nvidia pretty much gave us the middle finger to all the consumers.
ForsookComparison@reddit
1 country != 1 country
This isnt USA-Centrism talking, these are just the realistic hyperscale GPU buyers outside of China and where they're located.
Glad-Audience9131@reddit
so "ban China" made China stronger day by day, good job
InevitableWay6104@reddit
Their chips are about as powerful as an integrated laptop igpu.
Look up the specs of the hardware and compare it to nvidia. It’s generations behind, not even close.
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
LOL. Jensen says otherwise.
InevitableWay6104@reddit
Look up the specs, prove me wrong…
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
LOL. You look up the specs and prove yourself right. You are the one that made that claim. You have the burden of proof.
InevitableWay6104@reddit
No, I meant look up the specs of the top Chinese chip currently on market.
It’s not even remotely a close comparison.
The frontier Chinese chip /= frontier nvidia chip Chinese chip == powerful igpu
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
LOL. The backpedaling begins.
That is on the market.
LOL. Again, look up the specs and prove yourself right. So far, you've done no such thing. Again, show me an "integrated laptop igpu" that matches the Chinese chip I posted numbers for in my last post.
InevitableWay6104@reddit
the laptop igpu was sarcasm if you havent caught on yet. I was calling the Chinese chip a piece of junk, because that's what it is when put face to face with nvidia's specs. I never backpedaled, that is what I meant since my first comment, you either naively, or intentionally, misinterpreted it to prove your point.
I already have looked a the specs of the flagship Chinese card. it isn't remotely comparable to nvidia's modern chips.
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
LOL. The backpedaling is complete. And you ended up flat on your ass....
Uh huh. Yet you still post nothing. Yet you still aren't able to prove your claim. Yet you still can't complete your own challenge. That pretty much sums up your claim.
InevitableWay6104@reddit
how old are you?
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
Ah.... don't worry. You'll make it to kindergarten someday. Don't be in such a hurry to grow up! I know kindergarten seems so glamorous. But that daily grind will be here soon enough. Enjoy your carefree days while you can!
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
They can make it up in volume without paying NVIDIA and the mobster's 15% vig
InevitableWay6104@reddit
not really, you lose out on speed which is important especially for electricity costs.
ig it doesn't matter as much for china considering the government subsidizes everything to remain remotely competitive to the US in terms of AI
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
They're doing pretty well at growing electricity supply. I will submit that cooling becomes more expensive with less efficient chips, unless you have a natural heat sink at hand.
Glad-Audience9131@reddit
i hear that a lot, but look at them now, and how the continue to improve all chip production, and how they changed the AI landscape.
the fact that they do something in video card industry and can challenge the big boy is enough for me, i am quite sure they will keep improving
InevitableWay6104@reddit
Look up the specs of their current cards that are actually on market and compare that to nvidia’s current flagship.
It’s not even close.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Material conditions beats your larpy arm flapping competition
-TV-Stand-@reddit
Your laptop's igpu is at the level of h20? That's amazing!
InevitableWay6104@reddit
No, neither are the Chinese chips. That was the point.
Hugogs10@reddit
Ban China too late made China too strong, the west let them steal IP for decades because it got them cheap shit.
Trojen-horse@reddit
Then there’s no issue, we stop them from stealing IP….then they’ll fall like a house of cards because they can’t invent or further anything right?
Hugogs10@reddit
Of course, they can invent shit, and they're in a great position to do so now. But they got their meteoric rise off the back of trillions of R&D invested by other countries.
Kholtien@reddit
That’s how we all can be if we get rid of IP laws. They’re holding us back, imo. Profit motive is hurting everyone.
Hugogs10@reddit
Who's investing trillions into R&D if the next guy can just steal all your work?
Kholtien@reddit
We all work together
HephaestoSun@reddit
Dude almost all big AI stuff has at least one chinese author, you have to be really dumb to think they're dependant on american knowledge...
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Go cry to your mom that Lee's copying you and see what happens
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Nopz, China government worried about its citizens and Chinese citizens made China stronger day by day.
US government blue or red didn't worry about working class for decades. Made the working class, fat, lazy, deprived of formal education, social safenets... the tariffs are just the cherry on the top of the shit.
Ylsid@reddit
You have been awarded 50 yuan for your positive contribution
elmorepalmer@reddit
Does the working class in China have better conditions? Look at factory salaries and report back pls
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Yep! They have more laws to protect them, work less hours and have a better quality of life. The factory salaries is not all. Chinese workers have access to their own home. The public transportation is of high quality and are reliable. They also have access to free and high quality study, health system, security, leisure and social programs.
But, USA has crack dealers and tents over streets and people sleeping in cars. Who has the privilege to has access to a house need to pay for the chatGPT electric costs. But, don't worry the 996 that was banned in China is been implemented in silicium valley. Maybe in a few years, you can have a bit of the Chinese way of life.
Intrepid00@reddit
(Doubt meme)
grannyte@reddit
Things have changed drastically in recent years they are reaping the benefits of the scary S word.
zxyzyxz@reddit
De jure, not necessarily de facto, same as Japan
Environmental-Metal9@reddit
Salad?
odin_the_wiggler@reddit
They are tossing salads, left and right
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Your right. But, before you or me discuss. I would recommend you to flight China. For a couple of weeks. I am not joking. You will love it.
It is everything that you deserve and that the US government, not you, failure in provide to all its citizens. It provide well-being for a very few group of oligarchs and it's servers.
YouTee@reddit
You are the most obvious China shill I’ve seen in a long time. Do better
RevolutionaryLime758@reddit
It’s all over this sub.
lorddumpy@reddit
just call it /r/localCCPpropaganda at this point. the astroturfing is so obvious
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
I only offer flowers and truths. Pick one or both. I love you either way.
stylist-trend@reddit
I get that you're trying to go for a "kill them with kindness" schtick, but it comes off as ridiculously condescending.
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Truth or flowers?
stylist-trend@reddit
I'm sorry, but being an asshole and then saying "everything I say is true" doesn't stop you from being an asshole, nor does it mean anything you say is true.
Heed the quote, 'Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king.'
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Don't be angry, with enough time you will adapt to the new world order. Have a nice weekend.
stylist-trend@reddit
Fuck, of course you're a bot.
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Hauahauahauahahauahau
Pronto já virei bot nessa bagaça. Hauahahauahahahahah
Americano é foda. Vá mamar um canavial de rola, chorão da porra!
stylist-trend@reddit
Different language, not surprised lol
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Reverse Turin Test... Lol
From now on, any response put in check if you are real or not. Lol...
Go there salute your big orange leader... There is a militar parafevto make you proud...
stylist-trend@reddit
Reverse turin test? Militar parafevto?
If you have an error handling routine, please use it to inform your developer that your temperate parameter is set way too low.
Eastern-Narwhal-2093@reddit
Tiananmen Square Chinese massacre is the truth you won’t see from the glorious CCP
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Can you explain me the truth?
Eastern-Narwhal-2093@reddit
It is the chinabot broke when they replied to me lol. They’re not sending their best, folks!
Eastern-Narwhal-2093@reddit
Nah you love the CCP and xinnie the pooh
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Xi Ji Ping dick never raped a child. =)
stylist-trend@reddit
Neither have any of the leaders of actually democratic nations.
Turns out, there's more to the world than China and USA.
btmalon@reddit
If you aren’t from China the. Just stfu and stop having a Reddit moment.
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
I know that you are sad and angry. This is what we feel when we are not used to lose. The USA has lost, but no president or authority wants to be the one to tell this to the population.
Get used to this feeling! Take care of this feeling. Anger is a powerful thing. You should apply it to the ones that are exploiting you and your beloved ones.
btmalon@reddit
Good grief you don’t know me and you aren’t an expert on every subject. Peak redditor.
ballinb0ss@reddit
Lmao that's not a real person.
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
You are invited to my dragon boat any day you want some fun in the water. =)
CrabZealousideal3686@reddit
I'm not sure they are already working less than US, but the working conditions have improved a lot recently while is worsening in US so they definitely will be catching up soon.
ballinb0ss@reddit
Lmao propaganda bot.
Minute_Attempt3063@reddit
From what I remember, yes. This is what i deducted from YouTube videos over the years.
I don't think it is perfect, but I do think it is better then what they have in the US.....
dodokidd@reddit
Straight comparison to 20 years ago definitely, relatively compare to GDP growth then not so much
Awkward-Candle-4977@reddit
Just like typical communist states, Chinese government worries more about the communist party than the people.
Xi will prioritize himself, the party, then the people. Off course he will do some people development but above priorities persist
lorddumpy@reddit
Some of the takes on this sub man...
stvneads@reddit
lol
NotPinkaw@reddit
The point of banning China is not to weaken them but to strengthen US
Like China does themselves
omarx888@reddit
Oh wow, so they will stop using NVIDIA Chips and all of this is not PR? Cool! What models did they train without NVIDIA chips?
-TV-Stand-@reddit
Yeah that's how they can improve domestic gpus and the software support. They are already at the level of H20 gpus.
This way they make sure US or anybody else can limit the computing capasity.
Michaeli_Starky@reddit
Or so they tell you.
inner2021planet@reddit
Alibaba has its own series of RISC processors; so maybe Make in China with a closed market handed in a platter.
__some__guy@reddit
I don't believe that's true, but it will probably be true in a few years at most.
pisanggorgor@reddit
This is to be expected, no one wants to be dependable and dictated by others.
nonlinear_nyc@reddit
It says how much AI hardware is critical to sovereignty. US ban hwawei, china bans nvidia, mostly because they’re afraid of surveillance on hardware level.
Like you said, it’s to be expected. It’s about national security so free market takes a back seat.
Bakoro@reddit
Market dominance used to be one of the things the U.S used as part of national security.
The idea was to make things so good, and so cheap, that it was pointless for anyone to try and get into the market, they'd just buy reliable American goods.
Then the U.S lost the thread, let businesses ship all the manufacturing overseas, and started banning countries from buying American goods, which incentivized those countries (China) to invest in making their own stuff, and for some reason (racism), America thought that they'd never catch up.
It's bone stupid. For decades, I've heard people in the U.S swear up and down that "China can only copy" and ""They can't innovate like Americans can", and "Their culture doesn't let them be creative".
Which was insane, because China has been going full bore on developing every part of their country, education and sciences included.
If it weren't for the GPU chip bans, we probably could have bought another 5 or 10 years of market dominance, instead of lighting a fire under them to develop their own products, and to invest in their own infrastructure. State of the art Infrastructure which the U.S doesn't even really have anymore, and we're the ones playing catch-up.
EtadanikM@reddit
Surveillance is just one aspect of it. The more important aspect if the other country being able to use it as leverage in trade negotiations ("if you don't do X, we'll ban you from Y"). Nobody wants their critical industries dependent on rivals' supply chains.
Mescallan@reddit
Also réucing đeman for the home team. Every nvidia sold in china í les capital to Huawei
letsgeditmedia@reddit
This
mycall@reddit
We have better gizmos than you, so you need to listen to us!
NotPinkaw@reddit
It’s not Even about surveillance you’re looking too much into it. They’re mainly looking at improving their own technology to not be depedent on another, it’s what China usually do.
Lumiphoton@reddit
Except this story is clickbait. There is no ban on Nvidia by the CAC or any other government body. The CAC "expressed concerns" about use of Nvidia GPUs in late July / early August and summoned Nvidia to discuss the presence of potential backdoors (remote kill switches). The only new bit of information in the article is from the The State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) which on September 15th launched a "further probe" into Nvidia's "anti-trust violations". Still nothing about a ban anywhere, just ongoing "investigations".
https://english.news.cn/20250915/c31fadd0f15844059b6620f7eb91535d/c.html
thrownawaymane@reddit
This is how China does things, it'll be a suggestion but if you want to work with the government you better make sure you're lined up with that suggestion. It's a ban.
dysmetric@reddit
It's a smart move, even ignoring the security issues, because it keeps domestic money flowing into domestic tech. That accelerates industry development.
considerthis8@reddit
Appreciate you
joyful-@reddit
huh, i swear i saw an article about jensen huang commenting on the ban
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Europe joins the room...
pekoms_123@reddit
and does nothing
bull_bear25@reddit
But creates complex Law which is zero value add
Due-Memory-6957@reddit
Hey, that's a lie, they cuck to the US.
CheatCodesOfLife@reddit
LOL
PinkyPonk10@reddit
Europe makes the lithography machine that all of them depend on!
https://sherwood.news/business/asml-machines-ai-secret-weapon-advanced-semiconductor-materials-lithography/
creepy_hunter@reddit
Where the original research was funded by uncle sam?
skate_nbw@reddit
Hahaha!
noonetoldmeismelled@reddit
Cymer in San Diego, California. Purchased by ASML for their EUV equipment well over a decade ago
yetiflask@reddit
And how the tables have turned. Few hundred years ago people hated how Europeans would get raw material from colonies, turn that into 10x products and sell back.
Now, it's the opposite.
JFHermes@reddit
China isn't allowed to purchase the newer lithography machines. They gotta do full horizontal integration to get their industry growing.
spiky_sugar@reddit
That's not true - EU will regulate - leader in regulation!
Utoko@reddit
The EU should draft a regulatory handbook on how to regulate the regulations for regulating AI regulators . They're the undisputed experts in regional regulatory administration of administrative regulations.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
I'm just an old value gardener, tending to my values
yopla@reddit
The European union has communication that sets out a vision for a roadmap to create a framework for an alliance that will create an agenda calling for a meeting to discuss the possibility of a summit to debate the idea of entering the room.
Spoiler: germany doesn't want to because they have cars to sell to the US.
yetiflask@reddit
You're joking, but this was literally piece of news when Europe got bitchslapped because of no usable rocket about 6 months ago.
Their idea in response was a meeting to discus the possibility of a something something of something. I sooo wish I had bookmarked it.
Like literally word for word what you said, but it was an actual plan they had.
yopla@reddit
The first line of my comment is an actual quote from. A EU document that I saved in my notepad because I found it so funny and sad...
This other redditor remembers the source: https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/s/iWzW7bkCG0
yetiflask@reddit
Goddamn, you weren't kidding! So Europe actually has a habit of saying stupid shit like this, over and over.
jibbycanoe@reddit
I thought you made it up! I work with some people who write stuff like that to make a "business case" for their ideas, but they're never quite that absurd.
the320x200@reddit
Hold on hold on hold on... Did they get approval for all that?
yopla@reddit
Yes, through a non binding vote or the European parliament ahead of a statement of intent of the conference of ministers paving way for a nod from the commission which should activate the autorisation to print request form 32b.
Spoiler: Hungary will try to oppose because they are still pissed the European constitution doesn't mention catholicism as the official religion and white and the skin color and they have to suck Putin's big pipeline for gas.
the320x200@reddit
Europe joins the room and handcuffs their own wrists to their ankles.
TipIcy4319@reddit
Lol that continent of cucks that still buys Russian oil through India?
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Even if I have my concerns with Europe. It has more dignity in any of its countries than the US have in its entire map.
ismail_the_whale@reddit
*dependent on
pisanggorgor@reddit
Thank you
Utoko@reddit
Sure but they really have to be as good and also be able to produce the numbers. I hope for their sake the CCP has enough expertise in the decision making here.
Intelligent-Donut-10@reddit
Surely even you can see the irony of invoking expertise in this trade war, considering US government didn't even know what wafers aren't chips until 2024.
florinandrei@reddit
Everyone should want to be dependable.
Few people want to be dependent.
Sea-Presentation-173@reddit
So, the hardware restrictions are not something the AI US companies can use as a selling point no more.
That sounds harsh.
ADRIANBABAYAGAZENZ@reddit
That's why China's neighbors have such a harmonious relationship on issues like the South China Sea etc etc ad infinitum. Just yesterday the Philippines joyously proclaimed their desire to resolutely study and learn from Xi Jinping Thought On Everything.
nospam61413@reddit
That’s why the USA and its neighbours enjoy such a “harmonious” relationship: Panama, Chile, Argentina, Brazil, ... have all so joyfully welcomed decades of interventionism, military coups, occasional invasions, ... truly a masterclass in regional goodwill. So much goodwill that recently even Canada and Europe also joined the party.
prusswan@reddit
This doesn't stop other entities from buying though. I suspect this is more to guarantee consumption and large-scale testing for their homegrown products.
bene_42069@reddit
Bold but expected move of them. Less reliance from your very rival is definitely very strategically sound. Wonder if there would still be a bit of smuggling here and there tho.
That-Thanks3889@reddit
I like free market capitalism give the consumers the right to choose……….
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Massive-Question-550@reddit
So how much do these cost and where do I get one? Also I'll believe it when I see it.
bootlickaaa@reddit
They'll be fine with the best scientists and incentives not tied to liquidating a bunch of crypto mining assets through other opportunistic means.
We've already seen TPUs, Groq, and Cerebras putting pressure on AMD and NVIDIA.
I'm gunning for Lisp Machines!
neomatic1@reddit
America is fucked
exaknight21@reddit
I legitimately feel that the hold of US imposing sanctions on countries is about to bite us in the ass so hard we will gargle in our own pride and suffer. The only people losing will be the consumers.
If China manufactures it’s own products, they’re cheaper, we manufacture our own products, yet still have expensive products.
So good on China.
a_beautiful_rhind@reddit
Well.. there go our models. I'm sure training on that 200gb/s thing is "just as good".
Sufficient-Past-9722@reddit
China isn't shortsighted enough to do this without a viable replacement in the pipeline.
Ok_Forever_2334@reddit
The Chinese communist party was shortsighted enough to do the one child policy without viable replacements in the demographic pipeline, you're overestimating the quality of their decisions.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
No fertility cultism please
Ok_Forever_2334@reddit
Fertility cultism?
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Yes; "demographics" is fertility cultism with scientific spray paint and individualist sentimentality.
Ok_Forever_2334@reddit
In context, that's a pretty dumb to say.
I can't tell you the reason of others, but the reason I even bring it up is when you have too many elders and too few children it can harm prosperity of nations. In the case of South Korea, they've had an elder poverty problem for quite a minute. I'm not convinced they will be able to maintain that level of pension spending as the population ages further when there's a smaller tax base and a larger beneficiary pool. It's like saying hydrology is water cultism when you're worried about the level of the Colorado.
Sufficient-Past-9722@reddit
The replacement demographics are, like almost every 1st world country has learned, easily kept at arm's length via outsourcing. Great for the environment too.
ADRIANBABAYAGAZENZ@reddit
Alternatively they have the foresight to try and get ahead of US export controls. They're between a rock and a hard place.
lasher7628@reddit
IMO the Chinese AI firms will probably find a way to skirt around the ban. I wouldn't be shocked if news later comes out that they're still using Nvidia GPUs in secret. It's all just political posturing
Orolol@reddit
More like 4000gb/s
https://semiwiki.com/forum/threads/huawei-unveils-its-next-gen-ascend-920-ai-chip-to-fill-the-market-gap-created-by-nvidia-us-export-controls-are-working-in-favor-of-china-for-now.22623/
t_krett@reddit
Weak hardware make small models.
Small models make my GPU go brrr.
florinandrei@reddit
You seem to believe training only runs on one GPU at a time.
HedgehogActive7155@reddit
Losing the ability to train on H20s doesn't seem that big of a deal. They're better of using smuggled chips for training anyway.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
Chip designs cost a lot and take a while, but become very cheap once all the tool parameters have been dialed in. Maybe they'll make it up in volume.
Consider also that newer training methods may become more CPU-bound (e.g. Google's differential privacy) and off-chip bandwdth may not be so decisive.
spokale@reddit
They may be able to parallelize and brute-force similar amounts of training at a higher power envelope, which for China is less of a problem because they're building power capacity like nuts
yukintheazure@reddit
China's chips still have a significant gap compared to the first tier, and achieving lower performance often requires paying a higher cost and price. Nevertheless, some companies are still actively trying to use domestically produced chips. For example, Alibaba Cloud has already applied several chips developed by its subsidiary t-head Semiconductor to big data clusters to explore the possibility of gradually replacing imported chips in actual business scenarios.
PhotographerUSA@reddit
Well, when AI plummets so, will China lol
xrvz@reddit
Let me translate the Chinese for y'all: they're quadrupling their purchases.
DonDonburi@reddit
Hmm if you’ve used/rented rtx6000 then this isn’t a surprise an all. And h20 is supposedly 4090 level performance.
These things arent even a fraction as powerful as an h100.
Gogo202@reddit
They can afford to put in more cards. China installed more solar panels than the rest of the world combined, so electricity is likely not a problem. Infrastructure is probably better than in the west as well
Smeetilus@reddit
Weren’t Bitcoin farms directly connected to hydro plants?
ButThatsMyRamSlot@reddit
And as Deepseek proved, you don't need bilions in hardware when you have the world's best researchers.
https://www.science.org/content/article/china-tops-world-artificial-intelligence-publications-database-analysis-reveals
eXl5eQ@reddit
No trustworthy source though. I'd view this as fake news until there's a concrete evidence.
It's odd for the Cyberspace administration of China to interfere choice on commercial hardwares. It's function is to manage "Internet" or "Cyber security" related issues. Neither AI nor GPU falls into this category.
Lumiphoton@reddit
You're the only one I've seen so far in the comments that hasn't fallen for this clickbait.
There is no ban on Nvidia by the CAC or any other government body. The CAC "expressed concerns" about use of Nvidia GPUs in late July / early August and summoned Nvidia to discuss the presence of potential backdoors (remote kill switches). The only new bit of information in the article is from the The State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) which on September 15th launched a "further probe" into Nvidia's "anti-trust violations". Still nothing about a ban anywhere, just ongoing "investigations".
https://english.news.cn/20250915/c31fadd0f15844059b6620f7eb91535d/c.html
Lumiphoton@reddit
You're the only one so far I've seen not falling for this clickbait.
There is no ban on Nvidia by the CAC or any other government body. The CAC "expressed concerns" about use of Nvidia GPUs in late July / early August and summoned Nvidia to discuss the presence of potential backdoors (remote kill switches). The only new bit of information in the article is from the The State Administration for Market Regulation (SAMR) which on September 15th launched a "further probe" into Nvidia's "anti-trust violations". Still nothing about a ban anywhere, just ongoing "investigations".
https://english.news.cn/20250915/c31fadd0f15844059b6620f7eb91535d/c.html
3-4pm@reddit
I'll believe it when I see it.
BetweenThePosts@reddit
any news for amd’s?
letsgeditmedia@reddit
Exciting!
CriticismNo3570@reddit
Integrated circuits invented for missiles, now chips run drones. Progress …
bessie1945@reddit
I’m a lefty but Biden blew it by denying them chips
Longjumping-Solid563@reddit
This makes a lot of sense. China and Huawei have been quietly making a ton of progress in inference this year, an adverse affect to Deepseek R1's success. Here's a great paper on the current performance on large scale R1 inference with Ascend 910s.
TLDR: Ascend 910s getting close to surpassing H100s and H800s with large Scale Int8 Inference (Note: Int8 is Native on 910, unknown precision for H100/H800 but served through Sglang):
Prompt Processing (Prefill): \~6,700 tokens/s per NPU (@ 4K len).
Decode: \~1,950 tokens/s per NPU (@ 4K KV cache).
Big takeway, Made a lot of progress on interconnect (One of Nvidia's Moats):
But it is still miles behind the B200, main reason due to the complex relationship between Taiwan and China, and TSMC sanctions against China. See SemiAnalysis post on this, Dylan can talk out of his ass though just a heads up
This also includes a decent comparison by SemiAnalysis but bottom is comparing 72 gpus (144 dies) vs 384 npus (768 dies).
This race is also interesting because Blackwell seems like a mess on the software side. It sounds like writing kernels for it are a total pain in the ass and it's taking/took the hyperscalers a while to transition from h100s to b200s. I'm very bullish on the next generation and the Chinese are absolutely cracked at software, see Deepseek programming in PTX (Cuda Assembly).
Fantastic-Emu-3819@reddit
There is no way TSMC manufactured chips for Huawei (even through another company) without US knowledge.
Longjumping-Solid563@reddit
They knew but they willingly took a fine. And like I said Dylan is not exactly a terrific source, but I think Reuters and Yahoo finance are refutable.
JLeonsarmiento@reddit
Reverse Uno card.
Fantastic-Emu-3819@reddit
Some people are claiming atleast 1/3rd of Nvdia's revenue was from china but even after this news $NVDA is down only 2%, maybe China is still willing to buy high end hopper and blackwell series. But anyways this was going to happen someday as even US AI companies are making their own chips like Trainium by AWS and others so in long run it's possible nvidia might have some problems. Now chip designing is not easy, but it's not insanely difficulty like EUV So instead of Nvidia having $4T valuation it should be ASML but instead it's not even $500 billion.
Moose_knucklez@reddit
Electronic Espionage, building everything in China and training Chinese workers and manufacturers on the American way really does add up.
There’s no rollback here.
jonas-reddit@reddit
The American manufacturing way?! The stuff was and is largely made is Asia even if not in China. Taiwan is literally an island off the coast of China. These “American” companies (Nvidia, AMD) are run by Chinese Americans. Born in Taiwan.
Moose_knucklez@reddit
Are you not familiar with what Apple did to offload to china ?
They literally convinced commercial flights to fly to parts of china it never did before just for its engineers.
Apple needed to have its hands in every step of the process and by and large completely revolutionized China and its manufacturing processes.
jonas-reddit@reddit
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/15/business/apple-california-manufacturing-history.html#:~:text=Apple%2C%20like%20many%20companies%20in,accelerated%20as%20the%20company%20grew.
http://archive.today/gpNoF
“…In 1988, when Jean-Louis Gassée took a close look at Apple’s “highly automated” Macintosh factory in Fremont, Calif., what he saw was not pretty…”
“…Apple’s co-founder, Steve Jobs, had an abiding fascination with the tradition of Henry Ford and the original mass manufacturing of automobiles in Detroit, as well as the high-quality domestic manufacturing capabilities of Japanese companies like Sony. But his efforts to replicate either in California were examples of his rare failures…”
tictactoehunter@reddit
Say hello to capitalism. It was way cheaper than paying for fabs and tech talent at home.
Sibucryp@reddit
Smart move
SweetBluejay@reddit
Americans should thank the CCP. If it weren't for the CCP's consistent suppression of private enterprises and support for incompetent state-owned enterprises, China's private enterprises in all industries would be much stronger than they are now.
fallingdowndizzyvr@reddit
You mean like Intel and US Steel?
shovepiggyshove_@reddit
Mistral teaming up with ASML, China banning Nvidia chips. Things are getting seroius.
aero-spike@reddit
Sigh, they’re repeating the same mistakes of killing the sparrows in the 60s.
ReasonablePossum_@reddit
They want to cut dependencies and reduce spying and potential future sabotage intents. Its basically them securing water sources for the future of the industry.
Remember that they still produce a lot of Nvidia gpus lol
FineManParticles@reddit
Would we want to buy them if they aren’t selling?
baobabKoodaa@reddit
that feeling when your customers don't want to voluntarily buy your product & you need to ask your friends in the government to force the customers to buy your product
ReasonablePossum_@reddit
the state doesn't want to sponsor huawei for ever, they need to direct commercial funds towards them. the nvidia contraband market just doesn't allow this to happen, so they're stepping up the game there.
a_beautiful_rhind@reddit
Dunno, if huawei was all it's cracked up to be, US would have the contraband market.
Which one of their cards would you have shipped over in a box of shirts?
IAmFitzRoy@reddit
No. The feeling when Huawei gets banned everywhere, but you are gaslighted to accept NVIDIA at home with closed technologies like CUDA, with chips made in Taiwan.
Seriously, USA is shooting their own feet’s on this one.
Didn’t USA learned with the EVs, battery, solar, trains, payment systems, etc??
Once you corner China to be dependent on themselves they come up with a better product.
Viper-Reflex@reddit
Didn't apple train millions of technicians and engineers in China
That have tons of equipment to assemble not only high tech phones but military hardware too? 👀
IAmFitzRoy@reddit
Yes?
Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing.
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Biden shoot the foot, Trump is shooting the face...
nonlinear_nyc@reddit
There’s not a day that china acts same way (in fact more honorably) than US but it’s framed as a radical different motivation.
American Sinophobia is real.
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Are you talking about American cars? This is a local LLM sub.
baobabKoodaa@reddit
The topic literally begins with the words "China bans its biggest tech companies from acquiring Nvidia chips". Which part of this do you not understand?
cnydox@reddit
Hmm they still need to replicate that EUV technology.
Mediocre-Method782@reddit
A tin-based 13.5nm EUV source has been announced in the past week. A year or two, maybe?
1T-context-window@reddit
I hope there's better competition for Nvidia so they focus on delivering value than price gouging us
InevitableWay6104@reddit
This is gonna set them back a lot…
Damn that sucks, qwen was killing it:
UnionCounty22@reddit
So that’s why we have tariffs! These dirty dogs. I WONT my cheap Chinese sht and I WONT it now!
Turbulent_Pin7635@reddit
Tá porra!!!!
Pôs torando o Xi Jin Ping!
Everyone craving for cheap and good graphic cards for AI. China not only built one as will direct all manpower in the country to use it.
Next models will be using it efficiently! As Trump tariff wars is running I can see this new card as the next step in the industry. Probably, even in Europe...
How much it is costing, anyone knows?