DUI while holding MEI CFII certs
Posted by Traditional_Pace9238@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 213 comments
[removed]
Posted by Traditional_Pace9238@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 213 comments
[removed]
ne0tas@reddit
.2? God damn.
TheyWereStolen@reddit
I read it as .02, I was assuming OP got in a fender bender or something and got breathalyzed. .2 is absolutely insane.
toddtimes@reddit
Agreed. This is likely someone who has a drinking problem and doesn’t know it.
Future_Combat952@reddit
This happened to me this year, and it’s been the absolute worst year. I’m not sure what state you are in, as that changes all the dynamics so much.
I was in town visiting some friends and had parked in front of their house. We all walked down to the main street where the bars were. I found some other old friends I hadn’t seen in a while, and my original group and I agreed we would just meet back at the house later.
Later I walked back alone to my buddy’s house and was waiting for them to get back. After waiting for a while, I got in my truck. Dumb af idea. It was 25 degrees out and I was freezing. I was in the passenger seat but had the car running for heat.
I woke up to the heart-dropping tap, tap, tap and a bright-ass flashlight. Apparently a neighbor had called the cops for a suspicious car. I wasn’t even there that long, and my crew got there right when the cops did. I was charged for a dwi, politely declined the field sobriety tests and the breathalyzer, and got my car towed. Blew a .21 at the station. I missed my morning flight (a regular commercial ticket). They lost my keys, my phone, and everything.
I was released the next morning on the streets. I wasn’t even driving, and I drink like once a month if that. But apparently, they stated I had "control of the vehicle."
The state comes after you. The DMV comes after you. And then you have OKC to deal with. Everyone wants their part of the pie. Rightfully so.
I've spent $15k on a defense attorney. About to be more for an aviation attorney. My medical was yanked(just the timing of it all). I've lost well over $100k in wages this year. No income coming in. Easily 5k in fines, Ubers, meetings, victim panels, breathalyzer in the car for a year, probation for years etc.
I'm about to spend god knows how much on himss and have jail time coming up if convicted. I’ll never be able to have a drink ever again if I want to fly.
All the doctors, evaluations, random drug tests, and $$$$$$. My state does not expunge or seal any records. My lawyer is going through discovery to see what we can do, but it looks like I’m toast. Even with cameras showing that I didn’t drive, the prosecutor won’t budge.
Even if it's somehow dismissed, I’ll have to explain to all companies why I lost my medical and why I was arrested. Marking Yes on 18 for the rest of my life. Fun stuff. So much blood, sweat, and tears are already invested into this career.
I’ve offered to do 500 or more hours of community service, pay any fines, just anything to just take care of it. Nope. Prosecutor said I picked the wrong state, and that’s just how the laws work here. It’s one of the mandatory minimum states with no deferments to move it to reckless. She’s a young new prosecutor, first big girl job post, and I’m getting everything that goes along with that. Thanks. I just needed to rant.
I wish you well dude. Don’t let it f with your head too much. I know how it feels, the stress, guilt, feeling like a bad guy, fear of the unknown - just keep pushing and we’ll look back at it years from now with a different perspective. You got this. Just be smart, do your due diligence and research, listen to your legal counsel and be prepared to open your wallet and never drink again.
rtd131@reddit
That's such bullshit.
Driving drunk is way too normalized in the US but there needs to be leeway for situations where people are clearly trying to do the right thing.
Your situation or someone sleeping in their car until they're safer to drive should not be charged as drunk driving.
Cmrippert@reddit
Too many people who were "just sleeping it off" woke up and drove whilst totally blacked out and subsequently rear ended innocent families at red lights doing 80 and killed them, ruining it for everyone else forever.
distar97@reddit
Sleep in the car but first make the car undriveable by removing a wheel or two or. flatten the wheels if you have an air compressor which you can conceal somewhere nearby. Obviously you can’t do this if your BAC is high.
The_Warrior_Sage@reddit
Hearing shit like this just makes me see red. Bet those cops feel like hard motherfuckers ruining somebody's life for making a responsible choice.
I'm sorry that happened to you, and I hope things improve for you soon.
Secret-Nothing-6163@reddit
That’s fucked. Also if you weren’t driving I cannot believe that’s a DUI, no compassion at all in your state/ the U.S it seems. How can they not reason?
Pilot-Imperialis@reddit
Unfortunately it’s similar in other countries as well as being the sole occupant of the vehicle means “you’re in charge of it”. The UK version of this is being “drunk in charge of a motor vehicle” which unfortunately includes sleeping it off in a pax seat if you’re by yourself.
outworlder@reddit
The UK and US have pretty similar (and stupid) laws when it comes to alcohol.
outworlder@reddit
Yeap. That's how dumb the laws are. I realize they want to close loopholes like someone hopping in a passenger seat to escape a charge. But that creates situations like this. In some states even if the vehicle was not running and you sleep in the backseat you still get a DUI. You might be able to get away with it if you don't have the keys inside the vehicle.
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I’m a prosecutor and feel very much for you. I’m sorry for your experience. It’s good that you posted it because others can read how severe the consequences can be for even being “adjacent” to alcohol and driving. The lesson I’d offer to readers: If drinking, do not even climb behind a steering wheel. Ever. Period.
As for your prosecutor, I don’t fault you for hating her be side you’re only human, but most DA offices have very strict protocols and standards for how DUI cases must be handled. She doesn’t necessarily have any power to view you less or more sympathetically.
It does seem like you might have a fairly good defense that you weren’t driving. Maybe a jury would sympathize. But as you’ve laid out, it’s expensive to get there. Sorry dude. Best of luck on the road ahead whatever happens.
Suhweetusername@reddit
Is the only time you’ve been in trouble? Floating jail time for a first offense is wild considering no injuries and not driving, even if it was a .21. I get that the amount probably makes it aggravated, but still.
Future_Combat952@reddit
Yeah man, first time for anything law and legal related. Never been in trouble before. And it’s just a few days. I don’t think a lot of people realize how quickly that bac ticks up on ya. It’s shockingly fast.
joshsafc9395@reddit
Thats ridiculous tbh. The D in DUI is driving last i recall and you weren’t doing that. Not much different to being charged with robbing wal mart because you happened to be on aisle 3 while someone robbed the joint
toddtimes@reddit
It’s not at all like that, because that would involve other people doing the robbing?
My understanding is these laws are in place so that when police arrests someone who’s just gotten into a car intoxicated they can’t argue that they weren’t going to drive. I agree that if the cops find you asleep in the passenger seat there should be some leeway, but in this case OC still got into a car and started it with around a 0.25+ BAC. That’s drunk. Why would you be in a car in the first place? You should have slept it off on your friend’s couch, taken a rideshare/taxi, or even better, never got that drunk in the first place when you knew you had to drive home. When you’re your own designated driver I have so little sympathy for you being this intoxicated and held responsible.
Future_Combat952@reddit
I feel ya man. But Was never going to drive. Attorney is going to subpoena my friend’s texts records to show that we had all planned to be smart that night and I was going to be crashing on their couch for the night. He thinks that the last close out and goodbye shots and drinks pushed it over, as he argued that it takes close to an hr with food to really hit and show. And that at the time of it all, my bac would’ve been much lower than .21. Still. A very expensive and shit decision on my part.
AnySuggestion7636@reddit
Probably charged with Operating While Intoxicated (OWI). Highly recommend to anyone regardless of profession to put their keys in the trunk if they are going to sleep it off in the car. Or climb in the back seat to provide some amount of defense. But in most cases, a running vehicle, easy access to the keys, and being the sole occupant while intoxicated is sufficient to be charged with an OWI
PhillyPilot@reddit
Sorry this happened to you. I found out this could happen after I slept in my car one night after a crazy college party because I was too broke to afford a hotel, too broke to get a taxi and didn’t want to drive. Thankfully the cops didn’t knock on my window.
stall022@reddit
First worry about the DUI. Since you are out of jail I'm assuming you saw a judge and plead guilty to get out? Never never never plead guilty without a qualified DUI lawyer. Sometimes charges can be plead down or changed to reckless driving. But if you were already in front of a judge and said the guilty word then yes you are screwed.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
No plead just released from the tank in the morning
stall022@reddit
Ok. Find a DUI lawyer tomorrow even If you have to sell a kidney to pay for it. It's going to cost you but they may be able to save your future.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
Really didn’t expect this many responses, all of you are right in different ways and I take full responsibility. Maybe if I can’t be the pilot I dreamed of I can be a force for good and help keep others from making the same mistake. If that’s not a position that all of you can support idk what is. If you’re reading this in a similar position to me, I’m sorry. If you think you’re even remotely close to having a drinking problem, stop before it’s too late. See yuh
ImaTr1plet@reddit
A cry for validation
New_Amphibian_8883@reddit
Call AOPA. They have a section that deals with medical certification issues.
DearKick@reddit
Funniest first sentence to one of these posts
Guysmiley777@reddit
Your medical is guaranteed gone. You may be able to get it back through the HIMS process assuming you agree to never touch alcohol again and submit to repeated testing every year.
But even if you do get your medical back eventually you're basically unhireable at airlines. You may be able to find some 91 or 135 jobs but 121 is out of the picture. Airlines and pilot unions will push for rehab and HIMS for existing employees but they have zero reason to hire someone off the street with a DUI, especially one with a 0.20+ BAC.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
I will say it's not quite as dire as you project. It's not far off, so not to say OP isn't in a bad place. Any chance at an airline will be many years off and initially (and possibly always) will be lower tier operations. OP will need to be sober for many years to even have a chance.
Some operators actually almost prefer something like that on a record just because it means people won't leave. Of course, the implication is that people want to leave. I'll grant you that most of those are 91 or 135 but there are 121 operations like that too. Maybe a 125 operation for the few that are still around.
The worst part for OP those is the certifications held. OP was way too far along to have any implication of innocence of understanding the requirements. Honestly that's the wildcard for me and the biggest hurdle to a mainstream airline.
casserole1029@reddit
A DUI is a considered felony in Canada so they will not allow you in the country. US based airlines can not hire you. Same rules apply for flight attendants.
LongBeachTrijet@reddit
121 isn’t necessarily out. The Air 21s, Global X’s, Easterns, etc will always be there. If it gets to pre covid job marks conditions and assuming he takes all of the right steps, it’s not impossible to get hired at a legacy or LCC. He’s down, but not necessarily out
Sea_Help7060@reddit
Jeez 0.2 is brutal. According to Jim Lahey at least: “I used to ride around at about 0.20, which is fuckin wasted”. Say goodbye to your medical though
powerflexx@reddit
Can you explain why you drove drunk?
Just cuz you didnt injure yourself or anyone doesn’t justify your carelessness
DUI’s are highly important for a reason
Popeholden@reddit
I'm not a pilot but I am an alcoholic. And for this guy to be conscious and operating a motor vehicle, so is he. So I can confidently answer for him: no, he cannot explain why he drove drunk. Or why he drinks like that in the first place. Anything he says to explain will be bullshit. Addicts are liars. All of them. And the first person they lie to is themselves.
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
It doesn’t seem like you read the post.
Popeholden@reddit
How so?
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
Read it again. It’s self explanatory.
Popeholden@reddit
Okay thank you so much
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
100%, I know a guy who makes millions and got three DUIs, lost his career after the third. Not gonna be specific but even a most well payed pilot in the world would kill for this guys job. Obviously alcoholism is horrific and nothing justifies driving drunk, but damn, if you make hundreds of thousands a month, I’d sell my cars and have a personal driver with a rolls Royce 24/7. Wish you the best.
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
Read the post.
powerflexx@reddit
I read the post
Harry73127@reddit
No offense but what’s it matter? Got drunk, thought he could make it home, probably has in the past…a lot of people are this way. Stick around any bar at closing time, there will be a sizable percentage of people driving home buzzed. The heavier drinkers will be more than that. Of course it’s wrong but it’s not inconceivable why people do it…people driving tired are equally impaired, and probably everyone has been in that situation before.
powerflexx@reddit
I’m not asking why he did in the moment, i’m asking why he risked his future instead of just ubering
You understand this is a decision just like flying and it’s careless and wreck less and i understand addictions but I love drinking as much as the next person but I have never driven while intoxicated after i become an instructor
I dont care if i had just one drink it’s not WORTH it no matter how much you “think you’re good enough”
Risking that is a demonstration of decision making the airlines don’t want this liability vs someone who just doesn’t
Harry73127@reddit
Sure, but you’re a CFI, flying already is a career for you. It’s real. This guy might just be a student pilot flying once a week at a Part 61. A lot easier to disregard consequences in that situation, especially if you have a problem…
powerflexx@reddit
Read the title, it literally says hes a MEI, CFII…
12kVStr8tothenips@reddit
Reason won’t matter until a future employer wants to know. The details are important right now such as any documented past issues, dependency patterns, finding an AME that will sponsor them, money OP has to fight it, whether it can be expunged due to equipment calibration, can it be fought legally to lower the level? It all matters at this point but the reason doesn’t matter, what happened has happened and now OP will be fighting this for a long time. Sending hopeful and supportive vibes that OP takes the time to fight this physiological issue and wrestles this demon.
stnkbg1@reddit
You didn't FIND yourself in this position, you PUT yourself there. You don't get to 2.5 times the legal limit then get behind the wheel by accident. For someone who claims to care about their future as a pilot this is a shocking lapse in judgement.
Yeah, there are ways to get past it, but you better have a good non flying job because it's gonna be a long and expensive road ahead. Would have been a lot easier to go sober BEFORE this, even just for the night.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
Ya don’t say
stnkbg1@reddit
Yeah, I also don't drink and drive, because I like being a pilot.
10FourGudBuddy@reddit
Even before I was a pilot I have never had a drink and gotten into the driver seat. Not a single one. It’s really that easy to avoid.
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
To be fair to OP, neither did he.
10FourGudBuddy@reddit
Didn’t see him say that, unless you meant the clean driving record, which only implies he hasn’t been caught previously.
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
Seems like you didn’t read the post at all.
uber-shiLL@reddit
>Hey all I have found myself in the most dreadful position, just yesterday I had a DUI with a BAC just over .2 which resulted in no injuries. My driving record is clean apart from one speeding ticket. I am not someone who generally struggles with alcohol but will gladly go sober forever if it means I can continue my journey after a period. My biggest concern is whether my certs will be removed or suspended. As one requires a massively higher amount of work to recover from. I spoke to 2 lawyers one who said he’d been working these cases for 47 years told me he didn’t expect license revocation but said the medical would be difficult. Another told me my licenses will most likely be taken and I’ll have to start over again. Another difference is one told me to report the arrest immediately and the other told me to wait a little bit for the defense lawyer to do something with my DL I’m not sure which to do. I am in immense grief and shock over this situation and would appreciate any insight or recommendations of lawyers
This is the entirety of OP's post.... where does it say he was in the passenger seat parked....
10FourGudBuddy@reddit
I’ve reread it three times. He said he doesn’t struggle, that doesn’t mean he hasn’t DUId before and not been caught. I’m not sure if you read it, friend. He never says he’s never done it, only that he has a clean record and doesn’t struggle typically. Yet, he choose to get to .2 and drive, which sounds like he’s experienced driving intoxicated previously.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
I sincerely hope you keep it that way good for you
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
To be precise, he never got behind the wheel.
stnkbg1@reddit
Someone in the comments got a dui while sitting in the vehicle, but everything OP has said indicates he was driving.
scandlily@reddit
I had to scroll entirely too far to see this… zero accountability/victim mentality gets him absolutely nowhere.
Working_Football1586@reddit
Regardless of what happens I hope you are able to get some treatment just for your own sake, thats a very high BAC to still be awake and be able to operate a car.
commissarofliqour2@reddit
Would a ppl holder lose their medical if they had a dui and used basic med?
ltcterry@reddit
You can't use BasicMed if you lose your medical.
commissarofliqour2@reddit
But what if you didn't lose your medical. You get basic med then let it expire
Due_Algae7380@reddit
This is out of the scope of what anyone here is able to help you with. Anyone offering legal advice on Reddit is definitely not anyone you need to be listening to. Pick the best lawyer based on reviews, references, and your intuition. Best of luck to you. Sorry this had to happen to you.
MarkfromWI@reddit
I agreed with you up until your last sentence. This isn’t something that happened to OP, it is the natural consequences of OP’s decisions & actions. It is something he brought upon himself.
Due_Algae7380@reddit
I could still feel empathy for his situation
toddtimes@reddit
You definitely can. “Sorry you screwed this up so badly, hopefully you can fix it” says the same thing without making this sound like an act of god made OP drunk.
Due_Algae7380@reddit
I have no idea how you extrapolated that from my original comment but ok.
toddtimes@reddit
Because what you wrote with "Sorry this had to happen to you" reads as “I feel compassion for what you’re going through, and I acknowledge that it’s unfair and inevitable, but I wish you didn’t have to suffer it.”
That's how I read it, that's how u/MarkfromWI and u/LXNDSHARK read it, so I don't think we're wildly off base. May not have been your intent, but those were the words you chose. "Sorry for what you’re going through” may have been what you were trying to say, and that has a completely different meaning.
MarkfromWI@reddit
Yea, spot on. “Sorry this had to happen to you” is something you say to a guy in the hospital who was, e.g., hit by the drunk driver, not the driver. (Hypothetical. I recognize OP didn’t hit anyone).
LXNDSHARK@reddit
Agreed, but passive language just let's him shirk responsibility. His post and comments are already full of it.
AGroAllDay@reddit
To piggyback off of this. OP, if you’re a member of AOPA, I would strongly suggest talking to their legal team since they are actual lawyers
pingg8@reddit
Hey dude. I’m an attorney, I’m just not your attorney.
Don’t listen people on Reddit. Find a qualified AVIATION attorney. One that is experienced in this genre. They will know exactly what is going on with your specific case.
Also once you contact them. They should put you in touch with a qualified HIMS AME that they have a good working relationship with.
It’s not the end of the world. If you really want it suck it up and do what they tell you to do. Cooperate and graduate.
Realistic-Stress6482@reddit
Upvote
zorbthezorb@reddit
bad boy pilot doctors and AA meetings for life for you.
SmithKenichi@reddit
You haven't "found" yourself in the situation of being caught driving while 20% of your blood was alcohol dude. You put yourself there. I hope you never get to fly again.
MeetTheBeat360@reddit
Definitely not 20%
SmithKenichi@reddit
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diagnostics/22689-blood-alcohol-content-bac
ltcterry@reddit
Bad math, but don't disagree with the sentiment. Really bad math.
SmithKenichi@reddit
.20 is 20%... I'd like to hear how this is "really bad math".
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diagnostics/22689-blood-alcohol-content-bac
outworlder@reddit
The only way 20% of OP's blood was alcohol would be if he had died as a noble in ancient Egypt.
SmithKenichi@reddit
Literally what BAC .20 means fam. Blood alcohol content. Look it up.
Mazer1415@reddit
Is this an arrest or conviction? A good lawyer can get the charges changed to something else in quite a few states. You will most likely have to go to some sort of program before you get your medical back.
outworlder@reddit
At .2? Must be a pretty good lawyer.
LAMASRATA69@reddit
HIMS PROGRAM. birds of feather group and rehab. I got .022 My medical got revoke bc the alcohol level and refuse. I need to save more money to pay lawyer and start the process to get my 1 class back.
muchoqueso26@reddit
And that’s why I don’t drink at all…
ltcterry@reddit
My mother was an alcoholic. Ended up doing prison time once. I have three brothers. None of us drinks. I have a half sister. She got arrested for DUI. Assaulted the cop. County lockup for six months while I was in Iraq.
Some years after my dad died, my step mother got remarried. The guy's son is the Deputy my half sister assaulted. I can't imagine Thanksgiving at their house!
Not drinking has saved me a lot of trouble and expense. I have no issues going out with friends and their responsible social drinking. But no drunks, please.
Break.
In most cases I'd suggest someone like OP continue flying in gliders. Not going to this time!
rc4hawk@reddit
Guys just pay for the uber holy fuck. I get the lapse of judgment but we have all worked to damn hard to get here to lose it to a stupid ass dui. Brother hopefully you get through the HIMS process fast and you will be fine
youngeshmoney@reddit
Yeah I don't feel bad for you, I hope you lose them, years of work and tens of thousands+ and you throw it away like THAT? With a .2 at that, .3 is lethal alcohol poisoning so let that sink all the way in.
hartzonfire@reddit
Suddenly, my problems don’t seem so bad.
10FourGudBuddy@reddit
Crazy to me someone would ever risk it, pilot or not. I understand people drink and drive daily, but I’m currently 34 and have yet to have a single drink and drive. Why would you put yourself in that position? Get blackout at home, or walk if you can, or get a DD, but never drive.
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I’m older than you and the folks I personally know who got busted for DUI seem to fall into two categories. First, they were super young. We are all stupid in our youth so it just happens. Hell it happened to President Bush. (I think he was a little older at the time but let’s not digress).
Second, I’ve seen it happen to people who I know have struggled with a drinking problem. Frankly, I know people who drink too much and I actually wish they’d get busted for DUI, because it might save their life. Those of us who don’t have a serious drinking problem are able to navigate life fairly easily without being at risk for a DUI charge. Uber or phoning a friend are super easy things to do.
10FourGudBuddy@reddit
It just seems weird to me that if you think/plan/know you’re going to drink that you wouldn’t have a plan to allow for a safe and legal trip home, especially in a career like being a pilot where you risk losing so much. I understand that addiction can be a struggle but at what point do you navigate it in a smart way?
My aunt got 3 duis on a boat; after the third they made my 14 year old cousin take them to and from the bar every time they went. Idk why she didn’t do that from the start; the real question is, who’s out on the lake at 1-2am, and do they not realize how obvious it is plus the fact that they can see your lights (assuming you are doing what you legally need to) from the opposite side of the lake?
The house was on the way past the state boys dock, and the boat ramp where they also keep a boat has clear vision of the majority of the main lake area.
Crazy to not understand how bad of a plan risking it is.
No_Clock3836@reddit
How will airlines see this if you can’t get into certain countries? such as Canada, which views DUI very severely.
I maybe wrong, but don’t Canada require at least 10 years to be “rehabilitated”?
ywgflyer@reddit
The laws here in Canada changed in 2018, now any single DUI is a lifetime ban unless you get a waiver, which takes a year or more and about a thousand bucks, give or take, and even with that waiver you are not guaranteed entry and will likely spend an hour in secondary every time you cross.
This applies for any alcohol+driving offense that may be considered 'indictable' in Canada (our equivalent of a felony), note that this generally includes all of the "not quite a DUI" things that several states have, like California's "wet reckless", still considered a major offense up here and thus triggers inadmissibility.
lalopiloto13@reddit
You’ll be ok. I know people at the legacies that have a dui on their record. Will it make your career progression difficult? Absolutely. Is it the career ending move that folks will claim? No. Play the game, do the time. Give ground instruction, stay in the game book wise, You’ll never know who you’ll meet. Like I said, I personally know people at United and American with DUI’s on their record.
lalopiloto13@reddit
Also, you don’t need a medical to continue instructing. All you need to do is have the student be eligible to be PIC. You’ll be able to instruct anyone that has their private pilot’s certificate, has a valid medical cert and are properly endorsed such as acting PIC for tailwheel. You can give BFR’s, IPC’s, instrument instruction (VFR only for obvious reasons), tailwheel etc. Not going to sugar coat it my guy, this is a pretty crappy situation, but I promise your career is not over.
Mispelled-This@reddit
Your pilot certs aren’t in danger as long as you report it within the required timeframe.
Your medical is gonna get yanked, though, and you’re going into HIMS. Join r/FAAHIMS for more info.
1Hugh_Janus@reddit
My airline has chief pilots with a dui on their record.
I was an ALPA volunteer and helped people exactly like those in OP’s situation. Like you said, he’s gonna have to get in HIMS… and he may have to get his certs again as one of my students I trained got popped for thc (DO NOT TRUST CBD OIL PEOPLE) and it was a long hard road for him to get his medical back and ratings but it is doable.
Mispelled-This@reddit
Did he fail a DOT test while on duty? That’ll get your airman certs yanked too.
1Hugh_Janus@reddit
I helped one that failed on duty. He was not fired as he was entered into the HIMS program immediately.
The student I trained, I’m not sure. He was doing charter stuff so it might’ve been when he got his medical
Flying_Unagi236@reddit
I'm thinking it had to have been an employer required test for the student who popped positive for THC. Drug urinalysis is not part of the FAA medical exam.
hobbycollector@reddit
What is the urinalysis for then?
Flying_Unagi236@reddit
It's a kindney function/metabolic (diabetes) screening to make sure you're not an undiagnosed diabetic, etc.
ShittyAskHelicopters@reddit
You are in for a surprise if you fly professionally
Flying_Unagi236@reddit
I'm with you. Just clarifying that "drug testing" is a function of either a DOT mandated test or an employer required test, but not actually part of the FAA medical.
Mispelled-This@reddit
In general, union contracts protect your job, pay, benefits and seniority while you go through HIMS, as long as you comply with the program.
Non-union shops will typically deliver a pink slip along with the test results.
Jmshoulder21@reddit
Had a similar situation with my class 3, PPL, and yep, this is what happened to me. Good luck on this long, self reflective, and sober journey. For the record, I got my medical back after about 2 years in a probationary period and then full medical restored after about 3 years. May be different for higher leveledicals but that is my story for class 3.
To add on, go ahead and start looking for AA meetings near you and if you can make it work, start attending and keep a log of it, signed by the host of the meeting. You are going to spend a lot of time in there pending the psych eval.
UNSC-Swordbreaker@reddit
Reading posts like these help prevent future pilots from absolutely ruining their chances of any sort of career. Thank you for posting OP
PilotC150@reddit
I’m not ever planning to fly as a career, but this is just one more reason I decided to completely stop drinking when I started flying. I didn’t drink much before, but now I don’t at all.
0O00OO0OO0O0O00O0O0O@reddit
Same here. Great excuse to drop it entirely.
PhillyPilot@reddit
Drinking is fine. Just don’t mix it with driving or flying. If you don’t gave an alcohol addiction then that shouldn’t be a monumental thing to overcome
PilotC150@reddit
I know. I was never a big fan of how I felt after drinking anyway so this was a solid excuse to just decide to quit completely.
PhillyPilot@reddit
Yeah. I usually stop at 2 drinks. Getting drunk stopped being fun at 25
howtodragyourtrainin@reddit
I'm not a pilot, nor do I drink. But with posts like this I marvel that any pilot drinks at all. It can't possibly be worth the risk.
KITTYONFYRE@reddit
what? there is zero risk of me getting a DUI if I simply plan to not drive after having beers. it's really, really easy lol
you don't blow a .2 by accident
1acobb@reddit
Yea, what pilot could possibly drink? Every time I drink I have the sudden urge to go operate heavy machinery in a silly manner. Risky business, self control is…
Rolex_throwaway@reddit
It’s really easy not to drink and drive…
Classic_Ad_9985@reddit
🤨 🤨
Bunslow@reddit
a ton of pilots drink a ton of alcohol. they're just smart enough not to mix booze and machines, and frankly, it isn't that hard
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
We just yk… uber.
sirduckbert@reddit
I mean, there are rules and you just follow them… it’s not that hard to be both a pilot and a social drinker
flowerpower695@reddit
Same
Zanion@reddit
It's pretty easy to avoid by not being a dumbass.
Don't drink and drive. It's not rocket science.
GoWalkADogJannie@reddit
Does it though? No disrespect to OP but pilots like them are the reason the reg exists at all. They made the decision to drive while more than twice the legal limit. They made that statement about their lack of problem solving ability and reckless judgement.
This is pilot 101….
losingthefarm@reddit
I am with you. Pilots who are unable to make the decision to drive while drinking responsibly, shouldn't have a pilots license. They are willing to put countless other lives in jeopardy.
glidec@reddit
Remember folks, An uber/taxi is far cheaper than court fees and years of setbacks
arky_@reddit
you’d think. it still happens.
guys at legacies are throwing away their 10-20m careers for just one more bottle of beer. it’s sad.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
If at least that can be gained from this then the post is worth the time and I hope no one else who comes upon this post ever finds themselves in the same situation
Jake6401@reddit
You done fucked up A-Aron
Xamboni_man@reddit
I’m sure you know what you did is bad so I’m not gonna pile on there. As far as losing your certs as far as I know they don’t take them for that, only your medical. I’m not a lawyer obviously so I could be wrong.
You will obviously have to go through the HIMS program which is not cheap. As far as reporting goes use your CFI skills here and not the scared of your future instincts.
“The Code of Federal Regulations at 14 C.F.R. § 61.15(e) requires all Part 61 certificate holders to send a written report to the FAA within 60 calendar days of any drug- and/or alcohol-related MVA. These reports are commonly referred to as "notification letters".”
As far as lawyers go you should listen to them. You say one has 47 years experience dealing with cases like yours and told you that you wouldn’t lose your certs while the other just said you would. What is the other lawyers experience like? Is he familiar with aviation? Was the one with more experience just telling you what you want to hear? Did he seem sharp in his old age? These are questions you need to ask while looking for legal counsel.
This will be a long road ahead and I’m not going to judge you here. Hopefully you can get through this and hopefully I’ve given you some sort of useful advice. Good luck man. Hopefully you get everything sorted out and we see you up there again.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
I appreciate your time of course I know how terrible I messed up the guy with 47 years said he was on the AOPA board of lawyers, which is a pretty trustworthy source I feel. Although I’m having a hard time finding any info on their website about who they employ I believe his name was Robert Hague in San diego. I also spoke to one in LA who said he had an excellent success rate with these cases but retainer was 7500 compared to 400 from Hague who again claimed high success
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
Here’s the terrible thing about criminal law and lawyers. Your career may well be on the line. You could spend $25,000 in a snap, and it’ll buy you a 50% shot at a dismissal of all charges—or else, guilty on all charges. It’s a terrible situation to be in. And do you have that much cash, to gamble on a 25% odds or 50% odds game? If you’re not independently wealthy, probably not my dude.
So take stock of your situation and make logical decisions. Maybe you spend all that cash on this low odds gamble. Only you know the answer. Or, spend less, negotiate a plea deal where you may still end up with a DUI on your record but avoid jail time, save $20,000, and plan the rest of your life. It seems to me that your health, your body, and your possible losing battle with alcoholism are more important than the dying odds of keeping your airline career alive. Maybe you should focus on your health first, and not lose all your savings, and keep your sanity. I think you can learn from this heavy blow, and become a better version of yourself. It might not involve flying airliners. Wishing you good luck.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
0.2 BAC, almost 2.5 times the legal limit, is going to be a very hard defense. HIMS program, sobriety proof, and pleading for mercy if this is the first offense might move the judge some. Definitely a lot to talk about with the lawyer for future proceedings if OP decides to seek expungement.
pil0tinthesky@reddit
i feel it’s .02 no one would say only and be that high over
ApoTHICCary@reddit
Legal is 0.08. You’d be unlikely to get a DUI for 0.02.
I’ve been in the medical field for nearly 15 years. I have seen plenty of 0.2 BACs.
VP1@reddit
Used to be that at .2 you probably wouldn't even know I'd been drinking if it weren't for the smell. Ick. Glad that is over
sirduckbert@reddit
These posts just make me want to sit at home with a breathalyzer and a case of beer. I don’t know where 0.08 or 0.2 are on the spectrum and I want to find out… for science
Cascades407@reddit
Figure .02-.04 per beer, body eliminates alcohol at a safe .015 per hour. Theoretically it takes 2-4 beers in an hour (rough math) depending on alcohol content to exceed .08. So take that for what it’s worth. To get to .2 it’s a non-insignificant amount of alcohol, though it doesn’t take much to maintain that once you’re at that level.
ApoTHICCary@reddit
This is correct. 0.08 is 2 beers, possibly even 1 strong mixed drink. 0.2 is basically a six pack. If you rare consume alcohol, 0.2 will have you very tipsy, if not close to blackout. It likely won’t put you in the hospital, but you’ll likely be very hung over the next morning, maybe throwing up. There’s a good chance it’ll put you in the hospital for fluids if you are pulled over, regardless if you’re a light weight or regularly drink. You’ll reek of alcohol and as much as they try to play it off like no one knows… oh, we know. They don’t even have to open their mouth to smell it.
Always have a DD or at least summon an Uber. Or a friend who will summon an Uber for you. Even if you throw up in the Uber, the cleaning fee is far cheaper than a DUI, plus the ramifications that will follow you for years afterwards.
My parents were hit head on by a drunk driver at nearly 60mph. She was at a party less than 3 miles from her home. ALWAYS have a plan with someone you trust if any alcohol might be consumed. Once you are over your limit, all inhibition and rationale is out the window. A solid friend who is accountable can save your life, and at the least someone else’s.
fender8421@reddit
It's legit that one strong drink can put you into that "not good" territory. I'm not a small person, but I get very tired, malnourished, and dehydrated on long days of work, and one beer after that is my absolute max
Quirky-Advisor9323@reddit
I like that idea.
One more fact about DUI law to know is that BAC is not the only way you can get charged. An officer who testifies that you were “impaired to the slightest degree” is a second prong of most states’ DUI laws, so even if you win a BAC fight, you can still then lose the officer observation fight.
DblDtchRddr@reddit
It varies from person to person, but .2 is usually at least getting into the knee walking, black out drunk range.
InitialEquipment7967@reddit
I've tried exactly that as an experiment, 4x 500ml cans of Kronenberg (5% lager) got me to about 30 microgrammes/100 ml of blood on an eBay breathalyser after about an hour, so just under the UK limit. However, while I felt sort of ok-ish I certainly wouldn't have wanted to drive, let alone try to fly.
SSMDive@reddit
I did it with scotch. I could have two drinks an hour and stay under.
But in no way would I have driven.
sirduckbert@reddit
I’ve always wanted to take part in one of those studies where they determine the effects of sleep deprivation/alcohol intoxication on reaction times and such. And then run some sim scenarios to see how I do. Just out of curiosity
Xamboni_man@reddit
This is probably where my advice ends as I can only say what I’ve done. I needed a lawyer for something much less serious that could still fuck my life up a decent amount (dumb mistake). I initially paid around $5k for him and he had the case thrown out. I wanted to save money and paid $3k for a big law firm to get my record expunged and when it came time to apply to airlines lo and behold these idiots didn’t pay the $20 processing fee to actually get it expunged. Found that out 3 years later. I’m not saying just go to the most expensive guy but the point is this is your life. You have unfortunately chosen a harder path and if you half ass it now it will be impossible. Don’t cheap out on this. I know that’s easier said than done with CFI money which is about to stop coming in but do what it takes if you wish to fly again.
LegitimateCat3507@reddit
Can you DM me ? I have a lawyer that can remove this ticket from your record.
Weflyhigh1@reddit
Doesn’t the FAR say you don’t have to report it til after a conviction. Your DUI lawyer could get this knocked down and you never have to tell anyone a thing.
Av8torryan@reddit
Here what your up against in reality. From someone I know that held an ATP and got arrested for DUI and was way over the limit.
Basically The story I got, the judge admitted he could not punish him as much as the FAA was going to so basically the court fines/ punishment was minimal.
The FAA came down hard, and he got sent to HIMS. Had to submit to random breath and drugs tests like 2-3x a week, for over a year. Than was allowed to “rent” a portable breathalyzer , and would have to submit a breath sample whenever was alerted and paid something like hundreds a month for the machine rental for another year.
Also had to go to HIMs, and if he failed any of these just once, the whole thing was started over ,if at all.
Now, he’s complylted all the requirements, and it’s been over another year , and still waiting on the FAA to approve his medical to return to flying.
So 3 years+, likely in excess of 50k dollars in lawyers , HIMS , and testing fees and still not back to flying.
Basically if he ever wanted to fly an airplane again, he could never touch another drink ever again , after proving he didn’t for over 3 years .
bd_whitt@reddit
A .2? Like nearly 3 times the legal limit? You realize you should be happy you’re alive? The body starts rapidly shutting down and enters a massive self destructive detox starting at .3% and fatality generally occurs at .4% or higher.
I’m sorry to be so blunt but this isn’t a “I had one too many and made a mistake and blew a 0.081%” this is negligence to the highest degree. A complete disregard for not only your safety but every single person you passed on the road. This is felony territory.
I’m a pretty understanding person and could have some sympathy if this was a past mistake BEFORE getting certified but Jesus man. You know the rules. You’ve been taught them and lectured on them and now as an instructor? You’re supposed to be the example.
If I was on a hiring board, hell if I was even still the chief instructor at the school I was at, I wouldn’t let you within 20nm of a 1/100th model airplane we use for classroom instruction.
Neglect.
I hate bashing people. I’m a firm believer of the golden rule a the “nothing nice to say, don’t say it” mentality but come on man. Wake up.
skidsup@reddit
You "found [yourself] in the most dreadful position"?
You're "in immense grief and shock"?
You're taking zero responsibility for this. This didn't happen to you,... you did it.
Start by fixing your attitude. It will get you farther with FAA/HIMS than acting like the victim.
ScratchFriendly1276@reddit
FSDO former employee. Current corporate Pilot. Based on my experience since FAA have data access state and local ……. first of all revocation is not as bad as not getting your medical anymore. Well at least for 3 to 5 years. Second of all even if you get to maintain your medical, no company I mean no one will ever allow you to touch their million dollar aircraft. I am sorry it was someone like you cannot hold a responsibility should not even be able to be in airport environment
Alternative-Cat5533@reddit
I’m not a lawyer but my understanding is your certs are safe and your medical will be taken. You’ll have go enter the HIMS program to get it back. Not the end of the world but if the airlines are your goal you probably just added another 10 years before they consider hiring you.
LV343@reddit
Thank you for giving your future spot at the airlines to a more deserving person.
LuminousWave@reddit
I think your biggest concern should be what possessed you to drive with a .2, a definitely “wow I feel like crap, I’d better uber” range. Report within the required timeframe, get into HIMS and let this help you get your priorities back on track. You’re very lucky no one was hurt.
mconrad382@reddit
Gonna start off with the obvious, that was incredibly stupid to risk your career for a couple drinks. My uber bill is like $5000 a year because I too like to have a drink, but refuse to drink and drive even if it’s 5 min down the road. Also I’m sure you know what the legal limit is, .2 is not just a couple drinks dude, and it’s over double what the legal limit is. This is going to signal to everyone that you don’t know how to be responsible at the end of the day.
However, I do know people on the other side of it who have jobs with pretty shitty operators. Only one of them that I know has done well for themselves but it’s taken a lot of time…
You won’t loose your license, I know someone who flies a large private jet with 3 DUI’s but his job is kinda shit and he doesn’t make what he should, he flies on the cheap as a trade off basically. In my eyes you have really just shot your career in the foot. Doesn’t mean it can’t walk though, its running career is probably done however.
jimbob_isme@reddit
Find an AME that does no fault concentrations, they are the ones that have to navigate the paperwork process for the medical and are more likely to have a solid grasp on what to do then lawyers.
Flyboy2020@reddit
Doesn't his license have to be suspended for it to be a reportable event? As I read the statute, convictions and actions taken against your driver's license are reportable. If his license is never suspended, what happens?
Age_Correct@reddit
Lot of armchair warriors in this thread
flapsnslats98@reddit
Likely your certs will be okay but you’re very likely losing your medical. HIMS is your path forward.
phlflyguy@reddit
Notify FAA Security Office of the arrest within 60 days. Then pray your lawyer somehow gets it reduced to something below .15. This can happen if said lawyer finds anything wrong in the entire process by which the officer conducted the test.
Maybe the unit wasn't re-certified on time, in which case the unit is deemed unreliable. The results are thrown out and they can fall back to your field test, which isn't scientific and you can legally refuse it. All that means is they will take you in for blood or breathalyzer test using their certified unit (which they will do anyway)
Maybe the officer didn't allow enough time between the 2 tests they are supposed to do at the police station on the certified unit. Most often, the officers cross all the T's and dot the I'd but it just takes one mistake for the results to be invalidated.
Once you've had your day in court, you need to notify FAA again of the outcome. This is when they will decide what action to take. Don't miss any of the FAA deadlines. Follow all the steps and provide all documentation they require/request.
But if the .20 BAC sticks....ouch. Expect to put your flying on hold for a while. After legal fees, incidental fees for not being able to drive during suspension, court costs, fines, mandatory classes, breathalyzer installation into your car to prevent you from starting it without blowing and the HIMS program you'll have to go through (if you want to have a chance at flying again), will be well over $20,000. Probably more like $30K. And then there's the stigma that comes when you have to report it on any flying job application. Good luck.
14Three8@reddit
In the words of my chief pilot, “plead that shit down to a reckless charge. Pay whatever fine, do whatever time, take whatever class you have to. Just get that shit down to any other charge than a dui.”
AutomaticClick1387@reddit
Ugh….so, .2 or above gets complicated. You’re now elevated from alcohol abuse to dependent; this is lifetime monitoring. Now, recent case law has developed after a judge sided against the FAA that a one off high BAC does not prove dependence; Anthony Ison is familiar with it and if I were you, I’d get a consultation with him.
So, basically…you’re going into HIMS. The only question is, for how long. With your high BAC it could be for as long as you hold a medical.
GrouchyManimal@reddit
I know a few guys who were in a similar boat. If you want to fly, you’ll probably need to hang up drinking. The people I know are doing just fine but it’s definitely been a switch up for them. No more partying until 65 lol.
Traditional_Pace9238@reddit (OP)
I understand the gravity of the situation including the eventual hiring question which is heart crushing but if I can at least continue to do some form of flying for a living that’s what’s most important to me even if I’m not gonna make the big leagues. I deserve all the scrutiny I receive but trust me none of you can be harder on me than I already am to myself, devastating. I fully intend to join HIMS which obviously it’s not optional at this point. But abstinence would be a small price to pay to do what I love. It only just happened but I will immediately be joining various volunteer groups in the area to give back to the community both for my own mental health and to help others and hopefully show my good intentions. I would be stupid not to give this everything I got and fight like h*ll.
_bangaroo@reddit
> gets into a car in a condition that could easily kill someone
> won't say hell
sdgmusic96@reddit
Why should I trust your judgment for the safe operation of a flight with the lives of my family?
kwebs20@reddit
Bro some form of flying for a living? You almost took the living out of somebody, lol, like, I'd be way more worried about. Future relationships, future friendships or professional associations like dude. What will they think ab your selfishness. Driving 2.5x is. You're putting other peoples lives in danger. Explaining how nobody got hurt is the most gross part about it and I promise women/men who are interested in you will begin to RUN away.
jbg7676@reddit
Damn, it’s amazing how hard they hit you considering what is walking the streets today.
EliteEthos@reddit
How hard “they” hit you? The cops? Because OP didn’t consume that much alcohol and drive a vehicle? They must’ve made it up to “hit him hard”?
Yes. The crimes others commit somehow negate your own crimes… I must’ve forgotten that part.
🤡
brain_freese@reddit
It’s interesting seeing this. I always wanted to fly, grandfather flew torpedo bombers in WWII and I’ve always wanted to be a pilot. I had a substantial problem with alcohol and drugs which kept me away from ever pursuing anything flight related. Been sober almost 6 years now, guess I was probably smart not to try sooner. Maybe in the next couple years I can start.
EliteEthos@reddit
Dude. You’re done.
When hiring ramps back up, you’ll be competing with a fuckload of other applicants who don’t have DUIs at all, much less DUIs with 2.5x the legal limit.
General_NakedButt@reddit
Does a .09 DUI show on records any differently than a .20 DUI?
Oceanside92@reddit
Yes. He's fine. If he were above 0.13 he'd be almost toast. Anything over 0.13 is hard to fight and takes years.
LXNDSHARK@reddit
He actually said over 0.2
General_NakedButt@reddit
Thanks, not sure why I’m getting downvoted for not knowing how DUI charges show on a record lol. I think OP said his was .20 and I didn’t know if the charge was different based on how much over you blew.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
Many states it does and the FAA will want to see the report anyway. OP blew high enough that it was one of the few times refusing the blow would have not made it worse (FAA assumes too reading when you refuse from what I recall).
asianperswayze@reddit
Depends on the state. Some states take blood if you refuse breath test, so refusal would inherently be worse in those states.
SubarcticFarmer@reddit
I read it that way initially as well. It'll be a long hard road for OP. They may fly again someday but they will be starting from scratch essentially and have a scarlet letter.
RaiderAce5974@reddit
I had to reread it to. .2 isnt just tipsy its completely shitfaced while driving down a sidewalk territory.
TxAggieMike@reddit
This story is also a demonstration of alcohol tolerance and the behavior pattern of drinking to build such a tolerance.
0.2 BAC, conscious, and able to operate a motor vehicle doesn’t happen after a single night at the bar.
EliteEthos@reddit
The details of OPs police report would. And presumably he intends to be truthful to the FAA about what happened… as to not make his situation worse.
StoutFlier@reddit
Read the ref’s CAREFULLY. Not only do you have to report it to the medical branch, you MUST make separate report to Security Division. If you don’t, they WILL suspend FAA certs. You have 60 days. Do NOT wait for anything.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ash/ash_programs/investigations/airmen_duidwi#:~:text=A%20notification%20letter%20must%20be,of%20the%20date%20of%20conviction.
Adventurous_Bus13@reddit
You’re cooked
Can_Not_Double_Dutch@reddit
Report to FAA as you are required to do
If driving license was suspended then you will need to check that NDR box on FAA medicals from now on
Will most likely have to sit through some alcohol courses
And of course, do all the requirements and reporting and no action will be taken on your licenses.
Sspmd11@reddit
You need someone that could knock it down to a misdemeanor. Felony convictions can result in some countries not allowing you to enter.
wes_d@reddit
Check this guy out... Puts us at risk by drinking and driving, then asks us for help.
You need to worry about your basic decision making skills before your cert and med.
Torvaldicus_Unknown@reddit
My friend blew a 0.25, went to jail, got bailed out, and then flew 5 hours later, still intoxicated. A lot worse than your situation. She’s flying again now. I think you’ll be fine, especially since it’s a first offense. Thousands of legacy pilots with DUIs
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
Hey OP, first off you obviously fucked up. With that BAC there might be a bigger issue at hand so make sure you take care of yourself.
I would recommend trying to stack up as much money as possible in whatever job pays the most with your current credentials because it’s going to be a long and pricey battle. However, it is possible even at a legacy.
You know your mistake so no need to shit on you, I’m sure you are beating yourself up plenty already. Above all take care of yourself and I truly wish you the best. Remember, when it comes to alcohol, there are things much worse that can happen than not being a pilot.
CantConfirmOrDeny@reddit
That’s like 9 beers in 3 hours for the standard 180# male. Good Lord.
Y0uMadD0g@reddit
Sounds like a good night to me. If I have safe transportation or am staying at home that is.
Lumpy-Salamander-519@reddit
Fr make it 20 if you got an uber haha
UsuallyImRightMostly@reddit
9 beers in 3 hours? Light work
iheartrms@reddit
As a non-drinker (just because it isn't a thing in my family, but not for any particular religious/moral reasons, one of my ancestors just seems to have decided it wasn't worth the bother and that ended it's influence for us) I really don't understand how so many people just can't seem to live without alcohol such that they get themselves into these situations. The fact that it is so deeply embedded into the culture of so many people is amazing. I really wish there was a more effective way to help people avoid such life-disrupting problems.
Helpful-Company-387@reddit
go do your time in prison and reflect on how lucky u r that u didnt kill another motorist. and maybe do a correspondence trade course while incarcerated
r361k@reddit
Alright. You need some good news and I am going to give it. You definitely fucked up bad. You went down a road, but you can come back from all this. I have multiple friends at legacy carriers that got hired with a DUI on their record. It is unfortunately going to take a lot of time and money and effort, but it is possible. You'll for sure be able to make a career out of this still.
AdventurousSepti@reddit
Ask the AOPA lawyer 1) Do I report immediately or wait until conviction? What is timeline for reporting? 2) A ticket is not a conviction. Might be better to hire a good DUI lawyer. Talk to them and see what your chances of getting off are. Sometimes a conviction is delayed and if you successfully complete a program the charge will be dropped and nothing on your record. A lawyer who specializes in DUI is your best course of action right now.
Don't give up without a fight. Take some time to settle down. Your desired career is on the line so don't be hasty.
gasplugsetting3@reddit
Holy smokes, that's a rough one. Hope you rebound from this. I respect a resilient man more than anything else.
DadOnTheInternet@reddit
Better hit the gym, lawyer up and divorce the dui
GrandMasBushidoBrown@reddit
No cooked, on the rare occasions you hear about a pilot who’s flying for a legacy with a DUI
BothArmsBruised@reddit
You got a DUI. Meaning you are okay with driving a vehicle over finding a ride. Putting yours and other life on a single poor choice. Yes let's let you fly a plane.
fallstreak_24@reddit
I won’t beat a dead horse too badly, but naturally driving in that condition is pretty reprehensible. Obviously you know this.
If this just happened last night, you have a long road ahead. Definitely notify the FAA, then focus on the non-flying ramifications which could also be pretty severe depending on the state. With any luck, you can mitigate those charges and subsequent fallout. Hopefully no property damage occurred. I’d plan on staying sober from this point. Think of some kind of plan B while you wait for the gears of the bureaucracy machine to turn.
Definitely do some soul searching in the next couple of weeks/months and really think about what you want from this career path. Time heals most wounds it seems but this one might be a bridge too far depending on the state of the industry and the general hiring atmosphere. I’ve flown with guys with DUIs that got hired with that on their resume but I couldn’t elaborate on what the full circumstances were. But I know it’s possible.
Do as much self study on this as you can online before slapping down a retainer. That will aid you in speaking and listening intelligently when making a selection for lawyer. I know you’re asking for specific advice but I can’t really provide much insight to the process myself. Just think through your priorities and let the dust settle for a few days, hopefully that will bring clarity to the situation.
Take a look at some DUI support groups on Reddit, you might find some sound advice there to help get you started. Things like AA meetings, MAAD panels, etc.
You probably won’t receive much empathy here, but I fully understand how devastating this probably feels for you. Hopefully you have a good support network to help you through the process.
NewYork-Paki@reddit
You're a prick for putting other people's lives in danger, accident or not. I hope you never fly again.
saml01@reddit
Call AOPA. Maybe they can get one of their lawyers to prove the breathalyzer was defective.
Brilliant_Snow8822@reddit
Yea call Saul Goodman
Extension_Big_7562@reddit
DM’d
LikenSlayer@reddit
Below is the process the AME will have to abide by when getting your medical. If i were you, I'd enroll in an AA group & reach out to HIMS AME. Right now!! That way, when you get the FAA letter from AAM-David O' Brein instructing you to enroll anyways you be ahead of the curve. Slim chance that you keep your medical right now.
But either way, you are going to have to join the program and report every 30 days. If your BAC was above .15 you are toast my friend. Also, get an aviation lawyer, "Ison Lawfirm" specializes in this. Best of luck!!
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/DUIDWI_Alcohol_Incidents_Disposition_Table.pdf
Fun-Camel-7422@reddit
lol you think you'll have the discipline to not drink at all after not having one to begin with and end up with a DUI?
ATrainDerailReturns@reddit
Find a third lawyer as a tie breaker
BerserkPolitics@reddit
Cooked
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Hey all I have found myself in the most dreadful position, just yesterday I had a DUI with a BAC just over .2 which resulted in no injuries. My driving record is clean apart from one speeding ticket. I am not someone who generally struggles with alcohol but will gladly go sober forever if it means I can continue my journey after a period. My biggest concern is whether my certs will be removed or suspended. As one requires a massively higher amount of work to recover from. I spoke to 2 lawyers one who said he’d been working these cases for 47 years told me he didn’t expect license revocation but said the medical would be difficult. Another told me my licenses will most likely be taken and I’ll have to start over again. Another difference is one told me to report the arrest immediately and the other told me to wait a little bit for the defense lawyer to do something with my DL I’m not sure which to do. I am in immense grief and shock over this situation and would appreciate any insight or recommendations of lawyers
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Hi, I'm a bot and it looks like you're asking a question about medical issues: DUI .
Medicals can be confusing and even scary, we get it. Unfortunately, the medical process is very complex with many variables. It's too complex, in fact, for any of us to be able to offer you any specific help or advice.
We strongly suggest you discuss your concerns with a qualified aviation medical examiner before you actually submit to an official examination, as a hiccup in your medical process can close doors for you in the future. Your local AME may be able to provide a consultation. Other places that may provide aeromedical advice include: AOPA, EAA, the Mayo Clinic, and Aviation Medicine Advisory Service.
For reference, here is a link to the FAA's Synopsis of Medical Standards and for more in-depth information here is a link to the FAA's Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners.
Also, feel free to browse our collection of past medical write-ups and questions in our FAQ.
Finally, we suggest you read the instructions on the medical application very closely. Do not volunteer information that isn't asked for, but also do not lie. Some people may urge you to omit pertinent information, or even outright lie, on your medical application in order to avoid added hassle and expense in obtaining a medical certificate. Know that making false statements on your medical application is a federal crime and that people have been successfully prosecuted for it. But for heaven's sake, don't tell the FAA any more than you absolutely have to.
If you're not in the United States, the above advice is still generally correct. Just substitute the FAA with your local aviation authority.
Good luck!
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