He is still just a kid, a superstar in the making, but still a kid.
He needs time to realize that now the world is watching. He is not just a Turkish league player anymore, but an international player.
If he’s also coming from a nationalistic background, then a little extra patience will be needed as he matures and adapts to the bigger stage ahead. I hope he has a good manager to guide him.
I agree it was just youthful indiscretion. Notwithstanding his background, I doubt he meant it as anything but harmless banter, especially now that he retracted his post and apologized. Just an oblivious gaffe.
He also seems to be a bit tactless at times. :) For example, I doubt he was trying to throw shade on Antetokounmpo when he said he is not a great passer. He did say he’s one of the greatest players. He was analyzing in earnest and he just meant passing wouldn’t be the first thing that comes to mind about him. It just got lost in translation.
I don’t think anyone would have seen the passer comment as bad faith if he hadn’t also made the remark about the sea (personally, I agree with Sengun on that). The problem is that the environment has already become toxic.
I also believe his post about the sea might have gone mostly unnoticed if some Turkish commenters weren’t trying to dismiss it as "just a joke". In fact, I think that reaction is what actually upset many Greeks.
I think this might come down to a cultural difference. In Greece, athletes (when they represent the national team) and sports journalists are generally expected to be politically correct and cautious in their statements, so people are used to that standard. But in Turkey It seems that sport journalists and athletes are a bit more raw, and Turks might assume that Greeks are also accustomed to this style and therefore won’t take it as personally.
There is more to it than simply sports etiquette. Although it is just a reference to a victory over an invading army and liberation of İzmir from a Turkish point of view, I believe the phrase is viewed as celebrating the ethnic cleansing of Smyrna from a Greek perspective.
Yes, it is a different view of historic events.
For Greeks, the defeat wasn’t just another military loss, like the one in 1897 or some battles in the independence war or the battles during the 1919–1922 war. You can make fun of those, and nobody really cares.
But 1922 is different. It carries an immeasurable weight in the Greek psyche because it marks the violent end of anything Greek in Smyrna after millenias of continuous presence.
September 14 is also a remembrance day for Greeks in Anatolia, which added in the symbolism and didn't help.
Did Segun apologize for making fun of a massacre? An actual, apology not a PR stunt.
Was the perceived insult of the flag deserving to threaten to rape Giannis' wife and kill his children?
He didn't swear at the flag, turks were spamming the turkish flag in his instagram livestream and he said "Get the fucking turkish flag out of here"
And yes, he did apologize on his IG story yesterday, even though what he did was way less bad than making fun of the massacre of civilians
That is a famous song that has nothing to do with war mate. I can see why it could be offensive but him saying it was not the intention should end this discussion.
Why are we playing dumb here? He specifically chose a song lyric about the sea, at a match against Greece, and then posted a picture of his team with Ataturk at the front. Obviously it was intentional.
This is a separate discussion from the post itself. It's a critique on how he never apologized and instead tried to pass it off as a "miscommunication", while Giannis took full responsibility for what he said, something that was way less offensive. Unsportsmanlike behaviour.
Saying it was a miscommunication and removing the post entirely is enough. That means it was not received as he meant it.
These things happen especially across different cultures. If this was a daily thing you would not think twice about it. For some reason when it is sports we read too much into it.
It was received exactly as he meant it. We "read too much into it" because he's not your usual troll on the internet, he is a public figure and he represents your country.
100 Turks vs accountability. The dude knew exactly what he said and did, he is a nationalist POS who made fun of a massacre and an atrocity commited against helpless civilians. The only reason he took it down was because it deservingly created controversy and his ass was on the line, not because of a misunderstanding in how the message would be perceived. Don't play coy with people
Turks have an inside joke where they tell Greeks to "swim", in reference to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Smyrna
They claim they're making fun of invading Greek soldiers who had to retreat and some of them chose to swim away (because it was by the shore), but in reality it was the permanent, already existing Greek civilian population that was driven to the port and drowned.
What a terrible thing to read. Thank you for the explanation, I understand the upset of Greek people now. Pre-World War Anatolia was such a beautiful region full of diversity, real shame what happened to it.
Do you know how life was like among the different ethnicities during the Ottoman Empire? I figure a lot better than now…
1) He didn't, he told the dude spamming the Turkish flag to fuck off.
2) The Turkish dude literally made fun of the Greek genocide and destruction of Smyrna, super low blow and still a fresh wound to many of us Greeks who had families in Asia Minor.
The insults are in no way comparable and the Turks still had the gull to threaten Giannis' family and children over not only a non existent offence but also act offended after they said much worse things.
did not he? What Alperen was meaning at that post is Greek withdraw at the ww1. So, first of all, whenever you see any anything reference from history, do not try to relate it with genocide. It should not be wound for you, the destruction happened by Greek soldiers is a wound for Turkish people. At least do not steal our wounds man.
[https://x.com/SensitiveStock/status/1967661332116963417](https://x.com/SensitiveStock/status/1967661332116963417)
he recon his post as **communication mistake**. In other words, he says that his mistake was that he said in that way what he truly thinking. What an apology....hahaha
I know it looks bad from your perspective and I agree with you. But there is something I realised in these couple of days.
Greek people and Turkish people are not learning the same narrative about these events. We were never taught that the Greek side suffered during the war around İzmir/Smyrna, at least the civilians. We were always taught that this is just a liberation war.
Before seeing it on the internet I have never heard that people claimed there was a Greek Genocide during that war, I have never seen that Smyrna at the time had a massive Greek population.
So for some of the Turks making comments about the whole Greece vs Turkey stuff is not even on the same page with you. We were always taught that Greece tried to invade and we defended ourselves.
I am not claiming one or the other narrative to be true, as I said I just learned about the other perspective so I would need to learn more to make statement of my own.
What I am trying to get to is, people might not have the same perspective with you, not because they are ignorant or hateful, but because that is what the education system, the media, the institutions fed them to.
There is a saying in Turkish, "Bilmemek değil öğrenmemek ayıp." which roughly translates to " There is no shame in not knowing; the shame lies in not learning."
Saying "we defended ourselves" is fine as a national story, but it doesn't make the documented genocides and pogroms vanish. Just face reality head on and stop flattening the suffering of real people.
"That's not what we were taught" doesn't make the deaths of Greek civilians any less real. But let's be honest your state, Turkey, and her people actively refuse to acknowledge major atrocities like the Armenian Genocide, the Pontic Greek Genocide, the Assyrian Genocide, and the pogroms against Greeks in Istanbul. Even the Chios Massacre back in 1822.
You are proud of the crimes you have committed; that’s why you spam your flag and "joke" about Greeks swimming. But I know your narrative you’ve done nothing wrong, and if you did, it’s their fault because they provoked you.
This has literally nothing to do with what the guy was saying, like nothing at all. Genocide is your go to strategy whenever you guys have no real answer to an argument made by a Turk.
Absolutely, but I feel like the distinction lies in whether you are aware of this ignorance or not.
If you don't even realise you are ignorant or lack knowledge in some certain things can you be held responsible?
Even knowing that, theres still perspective though.
From your pov you were defending your land and from our pov we were also trying to reclaim our land and defend those Greeks living there.
History has blood on both sides.
Have you ever thought however who was the aggressor? Who waged war to conquer the other? Who had the other enslaved for hundreds of years?
Im honestly asking if these are thoughts you ever considered when you think about the Turkish/Greco wars and if theres any more for you other than "its just what people do to each other. Theres nothing wrong, just so happened we were the conquerors this time and they the losers"
Like in simple terms, if a kid bullied you in school and stole your lunch, only for you to attempt to stand up to him to take it back but fail in the end. Would the bully claim to be the good guy because the other kid tried to steal back the food he had already stolen? Is the kid rly the bad guy here?
Just dif POV.
Justifying such an insult that is based on a genocide is not perspective. There is nothing about both sides on killing innocent civilians and throwing them to the sea.
Well I never said only one side is wrong or anything like that, war hurts people not countries, of course both sides suffered and made horrible mistakes.
From what we are taught in school, the Greeks were the aggressor, not us. Beware I am not claiming anything to be true I am just relaying to you what we have learnt.
We learn that Greeks tried to attack and gain the ownership of Aegean side, and we have protected our lands against the attack. I know that that side had belonged to the Greeks for a long time, but I didn't know that Greeks were still living in Anatolia.
And I think that analogy is flawed. It is true that the Ottomans took the land from the Greeks and other various groups but there are almost 500-600 years between that and the last wars. It is plausible for Turks to think that those lands are also their motherland. If we start "Well that land belonged to us earlier" argument nothing will ever get resolved.
What I am trying to highlight is that we are taught that the Greeks and the Allies are the aggressors, and you are taught probably something else. I am not claiming one or the other to be true, because most likely both perspectives held a little bit truth in themselves.
Yes i understand. I wasnt holding you accountable for anything. I simply wanted to read your thoughts as you seemed like an objectively opinionated person, even with the lack of knowledge of historical events, which i myself included lack.
Im not trying to resolve anything. I believe this will only happen when both sides want to put and end to this and start by admitting their own mistakes rather than pointing out mistakes of the other side.
I do have my own opinion though.
Yeah of course, that's the thing, as the people we don't need to hold grudges against each other, that's what the ones that wants to control us expect from us.
We are probably even closer to each other than the ones each country/people deem closer to us, sure we don't share a religion, we don't share our origins and we don't share the same ethnicity, but most importantly we share culture, we share exchanges, we share hospitality, we share demeanour. In my opinion these are a lot more important that the labels we put on ourselves.
The best outcome, a little bit optimistic, would be having historians debate these kind of stuff, and let them be away from the common people. For common people, unfortunately, hate is the easier approach to these kind of stuff.
It was absolute liberation war . Greek army burnt %90 Manisa , Uşak even before Turkish Army arrived to these cities .
As the sick mentality of that day even apartheid Rums , they did not hesitate their houses as well when they left the city .
I believe he isn't true in his apology but anyways. I have huge respect for ataman and Osman though. They have said good words about all the opponents and have never been such d*cks
He barely even cursed it. He said "Get the fucking Turkish flag outta here" after being constantly spammed by it. Hardly comparable to nationalist bullshit.
Congratulations. Is that a reason to post nationalist bullshit and spam with flags and then threaten Giannis' wife and family because he said "Get the fucking flag outta here" when he was celebrating winning bronze? Your player took a game and turned into politics. Next time, leave the talk on the court, not on Instagram.
Good. Now that this drama is finally over we can resume say gex
https://preview.redd.it/i6en4btkclpf1.jpeg?width=462&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db004e58e404b18227174fe65e92c1b44f6ee709
If drawn gay porn has taught me anything, Greece's massive hands in that picture mean Turkey is getting its prostate tickled all the way to heaven and back.
Big majority of Turks do not know the fall of Smyrna and jokes about sea triggers memories of the expulsion of the Greeks in the Asia Minor. I also have never thought that. For us, it is the victory in the independence war, and expulsion of Greeks is consciously omitted. That’s why he should be excused. Coming out with this apology, he shows he has a good heart.
How is that different from your celebration of Independence that resulted in the Massacre of Tripolitsa, where your forces massacred 15,000 civilians in the city of Tripolitsa? There is none. Greek subs are full of racist stuff. So gfo. Alperen rose to the occasion, while you keep going low. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Tripolitsa
So, killing 15,000 civilians en masse despite the agreement to surrender the city is okay? Then why you making fuss and crying about Alperen’s tweet? Nationalist Turks exactly make your argument about expulsion of Greeks, as Greeks attempted to invade Asia Minor, fucked around and found out. This was independence war. This is insensitive and wrong. But it is only a problem when
Why are Turks always held to unachievable standards? It's not like we are crystal perfect and don't make any mistakes ever. I'm more happy that he saw what he did wrong and had the balls to apologise. Cut him some slack will you?
Brother what?
You must rly think yourselves totally useless if you dont have the capacity to make a simple apology post, acknowledging the fact that what you said was wrong. Here we learn to do this by 2nd grade.
Also not shit talking and referencing historical sensitive events after a victory, which is a no brainer for EVERYONE else, like how Greece didnt day anything about ww2 invasion after beating Italy and everyone was courteous in their exchanges.
Very tough unachievable standards. Take it easy on you will you.
He didnt acknowledge any mistakes. He doubled down on what he said was simply an innocent mention of a song or his love for the sea for some reason or whatever other gaslighting reasoning people who dont want admit his nationalistic baby views can conjure.
He cannot go back in time and tbh even if he could he wouldnt because hes an asshat.
He could though say the 2 simple words, I apologise. Very simple and achievable standard mind you, for the rest of the civilized world.
As is very achievable and simple to not post nationalistic stupid comments in the first place.
I hope you understand whats wrong here and what was wrong before and dont try to excuse it as "unachieable standards" which is totally ridiculous.
He said he has respect for Greek people and that no offense was intended. That sounds like double downing to me.
My unachievable standard comments stems from my own experiences and what I read online. Basically no Turk can make mistakes, and if they publicly admit that they did wrong they‘re not forgiven.
But offense was intended. Thats the thing. He didnt randomly remember the sea after that victory.
Its as if i called you a retard and then instead of saying im sorry, i said, no offense it was a miscommunication.
You can see how theres no real accountability here?
Having the balls to admit your mistakes is the whole point of these posts. Like Giannis did. Imagine if Giannis also said it was a misunderstanding. Like what misunderstanding?
Making an apology to lie and twist what happened just feels off to me. I doubt Giannis rly is genuine too but at least he addressed the issue as someone should have.
But does what im saying sounds unreasonable and false?
Do you rly believe what he posted was just an innocent mistake and not a nationalistic expressions and that he handled it well afterwards by saying it was a miscommunication?
I do not care about Sengun. I care about the influence he has on people. Its not right to blindly support someone.
I'm not supporting him at all, his remarks were unaccaptable. But he addressed it, said he didn't intend to do harm and that's it. If you can't look past that and are stuck with what he said then that's also okay, and that aligns with the image I have of people
Half measures is not the answer. There is a higher chance that he will do something stupid again in the future because there was no real accountability taken here and he'll think he can get away with it again.
Its not only Sengun. Its how things work in this life for everyone. Instead of supporting this behavior (i meam his half assed apology post), you should be more critical of it.
https://preview.redd.it/rf40n6vdhppf1.png?width=661&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb583b28f738164f309c82fa5975a61f4be0759e
I don't know what you want from me
For me the issue with him is resolved, it's not like he drunk drive and killed a mother and her child. He made a stupid post and even deleted it. Doesn't matter if he means it or he was told to do so. I'm a muslim and we're expected to always see the good in people.
If he lies to us then that's his issue with God to resolve. I don't know why you're trying to change how I view certain things
Like I said I don't care he is just some random dude that said some stupid things online. But it's not like this is about him being turkish or unachievable standards. When a youtuber does something stupid and he apologizes is he instantly forgiven? The first reaction to an apology is to think he just did it due to the controversy and to save face.
Just like I don't care about what he said you should not care about what people are saying about him. It literally does not matter.
That is not what I said I am merely explaining why the reaction is what it is. Like I said I personally do not care at all even if he did not apologise, This is pointless drama
That is completely correct, but he said it, acknowledged that it was wrong and addressed it publicly. And people here are still complaining 🤷🏻♂️ It‘s the same game whenever Turks slip up and make mistakes, they aren‘t forgiven that easily and are expected to be these crystal perfect humans
I experience it everyday
Here's the thing, he didn't really acknowledge it was wrong he just stated it half heartedly. He already painted his image in the world as a fascist retard by this comment and it takes a lot more than "it was a communication error" to clear ones name of that shit. Do you really believe that just because he came out and "apologised" a couple of days later that he really thinks it wasn't ok? Expecting of people not to be fascist is not "crystal human" expectations, it's bare minimum expectations.
Mine isn't either.
Novak Đoković comes to mind as an example, who used to be viewed relatively OK in Bosnia until he made some retarded remarks way back in the day. People were even exited to watch his matches. Then he said a couple of stupid things which branded him as a nacionalist among the people here and since then he's been a lot more careful about shit he says but that doesn't change the fact that he said it and it doesn't change the fact that he probably believes it.
In my experience Turkish people have these "slip ups" very often even the less patriotic ones, which might be the core of the problem.
I was talking about Turks being held to unachievable standards. This remark isn‘t only limited to Sengüns comments. It can also be applied to other fields as well that I personally experienced.
We‘re expected to be perfect human beings with no mistakes
It‘s not even about Turks but Muslims in general.
I still fail to see the point. What other fields as well?
I really don't think some Imaginary standards are the problem here. Not glorifying massacres, genocides etc is not a golden standard it's basic human decency. This seems to be a premise that eludes Balkan people on a daily basis unfortunately.
Giannis actually had nothing to apologize about, despite his family receiving death threats, but he did it anyway because he is BIG PERSONALITY and HUMAN, calming down the situation for everyone to understand that basketball is just a game. Big kudos to Ataman too, he is the best European coach maybe.
On the other hand, small people retaliate just talking about “conmunication mistakes”…
i mean yes the post was unfortunate. if greece had won, i am sure we would have made similar posts. lets just call it an unfortunate event and move on. above all, sports should serve to unite our peoples instead of driving a further divide. got to say i really respect Ataman's reaction and statements after the game.
That was mo communication mistake you have to be under a certain iq to think that was mistake, after the match with greece it happened to remember that song and posted a kemal photoshop why not w8 until the win in the finals then ?why after a match with greece?
It's funny after a match with greece, if greece won posting national heroes after a game with turkey would be silly at least even, especially not in the finals lol. Even then I saw no German posting Bismark hahahaha different cultures I guess
If a French posted Napoleon edit or a Greek posted something similar , I would not offend . At some point you should realise it is just butthurt of yours
If german OFFICIAL(not you and I as fans) posed their national team photoshoped with Bismark after a match with france not even a final and made comments about the Franco German War l, there would be reactions and it would actually never happened I died laughing even thinking about it but I get it, it's different cultures, civilizations
Do not engage with the 'butthurt' or 'crier' comments. Even kids at primary school don't bully each other like that. Your argument needs both intellectual capacity and mature disposition to be discussed. You will see that the other side is divided in this thread - the clearly educated ones who are willing to communicate and the ones who still play conqueror and accompany their insults with comments which demonstrate that they still haven't realised that Greece's history did not start with the Ottoman Empire. Let them be. It's one thing to have negative feelings about a longstanding enemy, and a different one altogether to disregard their identity and history, either because ignorance or mere spite.
In my opinion, these ridiculous mutual accusations and constant arguments are nothing but a waste of time. There have been many wars in the past, and in the circumstances of that time, every nation acted in its own interests. There is no country that has not had blood on its hands and has not killed each other in some way. Civilization has evolved in this way to the present day. Even today, there are mindsets that readily get their hands bloody because the struggle for interests continues. I think Greece and Turkey have been exploited in this regard. At some point, this nonsense must stop, and the two neighbors—especially two neighbors with such similar cultures—need to develop solutions together. Being someone else's pawn brings us nothing but harm, economically and militarily. We must also remember that there is an extreme right-wing population in every country in the world. The marginal rhetoric of these people does not reflect the thoughts of the entire population. I love the Greek friends I have met. I'm not saying we should forget the past, but we must find a way to unite by learning the right lessons and looking at things from the right perspective. Religious differences should not be an excuse, because those who truly understand and practice their religion would never see this as a problem.
It wasn’t a mistake lol. It is hard to find real intellectuals among athletes in Turkey and average people are very nationalist be it secular or religious.
I didn't see an apology. No sorry or I apologize anywhere to be seen.
He basically says I should have kept that to myself and it was a mistake to share my thoughts
lol this both people bad must stop at some point every time someone fucks up. Greeks didn’t start this and Greeks aren’t the ones who praised this so much. Turks really be wanting everything to be equal even when their side is one hundred percent in the wrong.
Ευγενικά θα πω χωρίς να θέλω να θίξω κανέναν:γαμω το γαμημενο μουνι που σε πέταξε γαμημενε πίθηκε.. έχω τεράστιο σεβασμό προς τους Τούρκους..!! 😍 δεν θα ήθελα επουδενί να προσβληθεί κάποιος από τα λεγόμενα μου!
"He's not a great passer. He's an amazing player but he's not a great passer."
This is what people are talking about? When I saw this post and googled it I thought I was gonna see something.. idk racist? Xenophobic? Over the top? But this was the problem? This is what "shows his true colors"?
His Instagram post said something like "Is that sea weather good?" Or something like that which nods to Turkish nationalist jokes. That was the problem.
I am sure people will finally let this stupid drama go and wont talk about the "revealed true colors" of the side they oppose and excuse the "overblown misunderstood mistake" of the side they find favorable.
Think of your favorite, classiest sports person, who played 20 years ago, when social media wasn't ever present. Now imagine them doing this. In my case, Paolo Maldini, after winning a blowout match against Inter, goes on social media and cracks jokes in bad taste about the losers. Doesn't work, right? Maybe these idiots shouldn't be let near a device connected to the internet if they can't control themselves.
People argue about so many things and constantly try to prove they are the right/true/better one. In reality, we are the same we want the same a peaceful happy life and the path to that life goes through mutual respect, understanding and hospitality. Our similarities are more common than our differences. Rather than wasting our time by focusing past and differences, we can build a better life by directing our attention and energy to future and similarities. Nice maturity from both athletes. I hope all the sub can do that too
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