Solar question, I live in a 10x7 tiny cabin and I just bought a new setup which includes five 100ah lithium batteries.
Posted by OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 42 comments
Should I set these up outside or inside? Perhaps in a box outside to protect it from wind? Where I live I have four seasons, it gets up to 100 in summer and rarely down to 0 in winter but definitely below freezing for long periods of time.
Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
Is there a crawl space under the cabin? That would be good. Do they ever create hydrogen like lead batteries? Make sure there’s adequate ventilation if so. Maybe a utility shed behind the cabin. Do you also have water storage, propane? An inverter for AC? What panels and what loads do you plan to run?
Paranormal_Lemon@reddit
Lithium batteries don't vent hydrogen like lead acid. LFP lithium batteries like OP has do have vents on the cells but they vent non-flammable gasses and only if there is a problem like a short circuit, in normal use they don't vent at all.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
At this point I have four 100watt panels and two inverters. A 2000w pure sine is the one for when the suns out. I don’t have water storage as I have an artesian well so I just use it as needed. I leave my propane tanks exposed to the elements. I do have a crawl space essentially, my cabin is on a car trailer and there’s space underneath which I could block from wind.
gfhopper@reddit
"...space underneath which I could block from wind." You absolutely should do that. Some sort of skirting to stop the airflow. It will help with temperature regulation, particularly during the winter.
Ingelwood@reddit
I definitely agree one has to block wind around the cabin’s perimeter. Farms used to use hay to insulate foundation. Fun fact, rural homes would also pack all around with snow, when available, a great insulator.
Lost_Engineering_phd@reddit
I'm not sure where you are located, but a truck that telecom and railroad has used for over 100 years with batteries is to put them underground. Below the frost line will maintain a fairly constant temperature year round. They get a ridiculous life expectancy out of even Lead-Acid by limited depth of discharge and temperature control.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
I was considering this as well. Not sure where I could do it because a lot of my land is really rocky but I’m thinking about it.
Usagi_Shinobi@reddit
Bruh, reading through your comments, I'm legit worried about you. How are you even alive if you're sleeping inside what amounts to a walk in freezer? It's not even that cold inside houses built out of literal ice!
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
For thousands of years it was normal. But also it rarely gets that cold here. Down comforters do wonders. I wake up toasty warm and have a good fire going within twenty minutes of getting out of bed. Believe it or not it’s rewarding to abandon modern ways.
shikkonin@reddit
Inside. You have no choice (not that you need it, tho)
throwawaybsme@reddit
Unless these batteries are rated and tested for harsh environments, including how/cold, humidity, UV, water ingress, etc, then these batteries should be inside an enclosed space with some sort of thermal regulation (air conditioning and heating). They technically can exist outside but the exterior will most likely degrade significantly faster, your batteries health (ability to hold a charge) will reduce, and you may increase the potential for a battery fire.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
Should I not have batteries then? Even inside my cabin it gets down to 10 or 15 at night because I don’t heat when I’m asleep.
throwawaybsme@reddit
You should review the product manual or safety data sheet or contact the manufacturer directly
There is a low risk of what I said previously, but your batteries will perform worse in the conditions you stated. It be negligible or somewhat substantial.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
I assumed solar was a good set up for off grid applications. I’ve used a 50ah battery for a couple years now.
Sistersoldia@reddit
Lithium batteries need TLC when charging. Specifically they have a minimum temperature requirement or you can damage them - typically they use a BMS battery management that will not allow them to receive a charge until they are warm enough.
throwawaybsme@reddit
Solar is totally fine. Your batteries just need a bit of pampering compared to the solar panels.
Holiday_Albatross441@reddit
Lithium batteries typically don't like charging below freezing. It typically won't kill them but it will significantly reduce their lifespan.
If you have spare power you may be able to keep them warm with a battery warmer of some kind so they'll be above freezing when the sun comes out and you can recharge them.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
Ok good to know, I’ll have to see what I can come up with. Burying them below the frost line might be a solution.
twaddington@reddit
Burying them is a terrible idea. This is a great way for them to get exposed to moisture. You need to be able to check on them semi-regularly to make sure they're still in serviceable condition.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
I should’ve said dig a storage area below the frost line. Burying was the wrong word.
Brudegan@reddit
There are batteries for that scenario. They cost a bit more but have some kind of a heating system built in.
throwawaybsme@reddit
OP, please consider this. This is good advice.
Additionally, this may me think there might be some aftermarket products that can help reduce the environmental effects on your battery.
Leopold_Porkstacker@reddit
You can put a seed starting mat under or on the side of the batteries in cold weather.
throwawaybsme@reddit
Great idea.
oranggit@reddit
Go here and post your questions: https://diysolarforum.com/
PlanetExcellent@reddit
Lithium batteries need to be kept above freezing (check your specs) when being recharged. So the general rule is put the batteries in a space that you would be comfortable in.
5 100Ah is pretty good. I have 400Ah in my RV and I can camp for a week while using the refrigerator TV and occasional microwave (via inverter).
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
Ok thanks, I’m hoping they work out. It’ll be nice to have lights this winter. Glad to hear how well yours work. Is that with cloudy days?
ElectronicCountry839@reddit
They won't work if it gets cold. Gotta keep them in heated environment unless they have an internal heater setup.
smsff2@reddit
Lithium batteries cannot operate at temperatures below freezing, so you’ll need to store them indoors. That said, I’ve frozen my lithium batteries a few times and they’re still fine. I just let them thaw in a warm place for about an hour before using them.
For a setup like yours, I use lead-acid batteries. They don’t contain electronics and handle the cold better. I keep mine outside in a plastic tote since indoor space is very limited.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
Ok very interesting, I think I’ll be able to prevent them from freezing. Part of my concern was if it’s a heath issue to keep them inside my living space.
Paranormal_Lemon@reddit
Usually they are rated 0C for charging but -20C for discharge/storage. Some have a BMS that will prevent charging if the temp is too low.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
That’s good to know. These said they have a low temp protection but I don’t know specifically what that is.
Paranormal_Lemon@reddit
If it says that you are good and don't have to worry about it getting damaged if it dips too low.
Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
I’d probably find an interior space, though you’re starting with only 70 square feet. Maybe under seating so you get double use of the space.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
I have room under my bed I’d just prefer to keep them outdoors but also didn’t know if it’s unsafe to have them in the living area.
twaddington@reddit
If these are lithium ion batteries then yes, it is safe to have them in your living area. Lead-acid batteries are not safe to keep in your living area as they may emit hazardous fumes.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
Ok thanks that’s what I thought but wasn’t sure.
TheLostExpedition@reddit
Under the bed in a vented fireproof box with active thermistor cooling and a heating coil . Extreme temps are bad. Moderate ones are fine. Make sure the bats are elevated and the box has a drain incase moisture finds its way inside.
Murky_Conclusion_637@reddit
No loft or attic? Use a gas heater in the winter, just to keep all of you unfrozen.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
No loft or attic at this point. I may try diesel this winter but I don’t want to be dependent on it.
churnopol@reddit
How many things are you powering a 10x7 space? And does the cabin really need electricity while you're away?
I would just get a second deep cycle car battery and use the solar panels to keep the car's batteries charged and use an inverter when I need to use electricity.
OverOnTheCreekSide@reddit (OP)
I’m planning to run a freezer during the day and a tv to watch movies. I got five batteries because sometimes it’s cloudy for a few days in a row and I want to at least be able to use my lights.