I honestly believe this is one of the biggest mysteries there is, Orcas are the most efficient predators on earth, yet they have never attacked us in the wild. They know something we don’t.
Posted by DukeofRoma@reddit | whales | View on Reddit | 61 comments
King_Moonracer20@reddit
Theory of mind kinda falls apart with them attacking dolphins on the regular
Historical_Fold_9946@reddit
Gang on gang violence.
SurayaThrowaway12@reddit
One major reason why orcas don't see humans as being potential prey is likely because orcas are just highly cultural animals and are usually very selective and conservative predators. Though orcas as a whole "species" prey on a large amount of different species, they belong to very different populations, and each of these populations has its own unique culture. Due to these cultural reasons, orcas are often unwilling to change from their pod's/community's diet. Culture in orcas does not only determines the different learned diets and hunting techniques amongst different orca populations, but it also determines their different communal social structures, vocalizations, traditions, social norms, play activities, and more amongst different orca populations.
The most comprehensive theory on why orcas do not desire to eat humans supported by marine biology can be summed up as follows. Orcas learn what to eat from their mothers. These dietary preferences are passed down generations (culturally transmitted) within an orca population. Specific diets form a major part of the cultures of each unique orca community/population. Culture seems to be very important to orcas, and thus orcas will rarely stray outside of the diet they are taught to eat by their podmates. In addition, even to mammal-eating orcas, humans likely simply do bear any resemblance to the various mammals that these orcas are familiar with. Thus, orcas do not recognize humans as potential prey.
However, another reason why wild orcas are not interested in harming humans may be due to them having theory of mind. Jared Towers, the lead author of a recent paper on the behaviour of wild orcas gifting/sharing prey and other objects with people, has also stated that orcas may have theory of mind in an article.
Basically, orcas having theory of mind would also mean that they could have the ability to detect and recognize our mental states. This also means that they may recognize that us humans also have our own different perspectives and that we also may also be another highly social and intelligent lifeform. Orcas as well as multiple other cetaceans do seem to view humans as fellow social beings that they could attempt to communicate with. Also, unlike other cetaceans, humans may represent a realm (dry land) which orcas do not have access to, so perhaps this could make them more curious.
Orcas do not really interact with many other species in this way, usually either ignoring, harassing, or killing other sea creatures. It seems that orcas see humans a bit differently, perhaps being more similar to themselves.
The food-sharing behaviours are considered exploratory behaviours by the researchers because orcas are observed usually pausing to see how humans respond to their actions, and thus the orcas are likely "testing" the humans. The behaviours of orcas offering food and other objects to humans are likely just extensions of well-documented cultural behaviours where orcas share food with each other, likely forming and strengthening bonds between each other. The researchers have thus labeled the behaviour as a form of "generalized altruism," where the orcas extend this behaviour across species towards humans as well.
Possible reasons for the orcas to engage in this behaviour are stated by the authors of the research paper:
As is also stated by Towers:
Perhaps another reason why various orcas seem to be more curious about us and are more willing to form some kind of relationship with us is not only because they may perceive us as being on a cognitive level of similar to themselves, but also because we come from a world (dry land) totally alien to them, while they have frequently seen other aquatic species, including other dolphins, for millions of years.
In an old documentary about the famous intentionally-stranding orcas at Punta Norte, Argentina, orcas appeared to befriend local park ranger Roberto Bubas. Dr. Jane Goodall states in the documentary that the orcas wanted Bubas in the water with them because they wanted to experience him and were curious about him as an individual. Bubas may also represent another world (dry land) that these orcas could not experience themselves.
Humans may represent a world that they cannot ever access. Thus, orcas could see forming a relationship with humans as being ultimately beneficial to themselves, as we may offer something that they cannot attain by themselves.
And indeed, there have been extensive historic relationships between humans and orcas, the most famous of which was Old Tom's pod forming a cooperative relationship with whalers in Eden, Australia. Both Aboriginal and western whalers cooperated with these orcas in Twofold Bay, New South Wales. The orcas would alert the whalers to the presence of baleen whales in the area by breaching or tailslapping near the cottages of the Davidson family. The orcas would also often assist in the hunt itself. After a whale was harpooned, some orcas would even grab the ropes with their teeth to assist the human whalers in hauling. It is possible this cooperative relationship was actually started by these orcas approaching and offering humans their food and the humans reciprocating many years ago, or vice versa.
Curiousrover69@reddit
So if I’m ever in this situation would it be reasonable for me to get into the water?
SurayaThrowaway12@reddit
One important thing to know is that getting into the water with orcas nearby is illegal in New Zealand, unless you are Dr. Ingrid Visser (who has a permit to do so), and it is also illegal in multiple other countries. Orcas of course don't know of these rules, so there are multiple encounters with them going over to check out people already swimming in the water, but most people are not allowed to get into the water or try to approach orcas themselves within 100 meters in New Zealand.
Even disregarding local laws, the orcas may not expect for you to get into the water, and this may startle them and disrupt their behaviours. Orcas are still very large and powerful animals of course, so there is always a risk of being harmed by them when in close proximity.
The authors of the study on orcas trying to share food with humans also strong recommend seeking out such close interactions or encouraging relationships to develop, due to the potential for either of these two species to harm each other:
If you are lucky enough to have curious orcas check you out when swimming in the ocean, or being on a paddleboard, kayak, etcetera, the best course of action may be to avoid sudden movements, instead trying to relax and make eye contact with the orcas. As Towers has stated, people should be respectful as possible in their interactions with orcas.
Dahleh-Llama@reddit
I don't think I've ever read a wall of text here on reddit and walked away saying I enjoyed reading all of that. Your dedication to our cetaceous overlords is greatly appreciated.
hogtiedcantalope@reddit
Tldr: whales are basically ocean dragons
Peachy_mati@reddit
I’ve equally never enjoyed reading something so long on here, until now. Thank you for sharing such a detailed explanation. It was wonderful
Addicted-2Diving@reddit
u/SuravaThrowawav12, thanks for all the info.
wolfbear@reddit
My takeaway is that we should let an orca experience dry land
Inestimable_Me@reddit
Get them a huge tank like the Guild navigators in Dune, and let them cruise around up here
wolfbear@reddit
That’s what I’m saying
thetitanitehunk@reddit
Absolutely Fascinating! Thank you for sharing your knowledge of Orcas. I really enjoyed learning about them and the adjacent topic of "Theory of Mind". 🏆
mrknoot@reddit
This is an insanely good write-up. One of the most interesting things I've read in a while
Witty_Wolf8633@reddit
This is like a well written dissertation- every now and then someone like you blows my mind and you sir/mam have just done that. Bravo 👏
thenisaidbitch@reddit
Fantastic, thank you very much!
NoRelationship4258@reddit
We have too many bones and not enough meat; we don’t taste good to them
dotherandymarsh@reddit
Actually dragon flies are the most efficient hunters but yeah orcas are big, smart, and cool.
gramersvelt001100@reddit
They are smart. They saw what we did to the other whales and decided it wasn't worth the risk.
Also, we probably taste bad. Kinda like how sharks aren't really interested in us.
FireSkyLikeFly@reddit
Actually, not a mystery. They are benevolent creatures. They all have very specific diets and will not kill just for sport. Most of them don't even eat mammals. There is no reason to attack humans, we are not part of their diet.
arandomperson1234@reddit
Orcas, despite being fairly nice to podmates and not displaying that much violence towards other orcas, are not that nice in general.
While many of these behaviors contribute to orca survival by helping them obtain food more easily and practice hunting, they do show that orcas are not at all benevolent and peaceful.
FireSkyLikeFly@reddit
Majority of your points refer to transient orcas, which make up maybe 10% of the population. I agree its difficult for Orcas to humanely kill their prey. Most of their tactics are stun, weaken, drown, but that's a hunting tactic they've adopt for survival. I don't blame humans for hunting animals for food just like I don't blame these Orcas for hunting, either. The resident Orcas that harass porpoises are interesting, though, and are uncharacteristic given this is only in <1% of the population. Overall, I'd still consider cetaceans benevolent given there are rare attacks outside of what they feed on.
merely-unlikely@reddit
Humans are friends, not food.
bigblingburgerbob@reddit
The human/orca treaty of 9345 B.C. Shall never be broken by our sea worthy brethren.
Discount_Lex_Luthor@reddit
There is no evidence of Orcas attacking humans in the wild. That is because the ocean is a great place to hide bodies and orcas don't leave any witnesses.
Weird_Assignment_550@reddit
Orcas attack humans. Plenty of recorded attacks.
oletrav@reddit
Link one?
Weird_Assignment_550@reddit
Why? Too lazy? Just search "Orcas attack humans" on YouTube and it's all there. https://youtube.com/shorts/XQUuaAICSsI?si=u5uMSAH8_8RI3JtL
Personal_Purchase_71@reddit
It's actually rather simple. We taste bad.
cwill2517@reddit
Game recognize game.
No-Dark-9414@reddit
She isn't on a yacht
StylishDavid@reddit
Pretty wild. But weren’t there instances a few years back where they seemed to be going after fishing boats?
On a semi-related note, my favorite orcas-in-the-wild story is the one about where they were observed starting an orca fashion craze that involved their “wearing” dead fish as hats, or some damned thing.
SurayaThrowaway12@reddit
You may be thinking of the "Gladis" Iberian orcas mainly going after sailing boat rudders, though they also have struck some fishing boats off of Morocco. The "Gladis" orcas are continuing to interact with sailing boat rudders; a recreational boat recently sank after it was struck by an orca just yesterday off of Cascais Bay in Portugal. The people on the sinking boat were picked up by another vessel.
The Iberian orcas that target rudders on sailing boats ultimately leave the humans on the boats alone afterwards. Various orca scientists have stated that the general behaviours of the orcas when they interact with the rudders are not actually aggressive. Orcas are of course very heavy and powerful animals, so even relatively minor movements can still have a lot of impact on the rudders, which could subsequently result in rather violent movements of the vessel
According to biologist Dr. Volker Deecke:
And according to biologist Dr. Alfredo López Fernandez from the Atlantic Orca Working Group:
Here is some underwater footage of these "Gladis" Iberian orcas hitting rudders, but there is little apparent aggression seen in their behaviours.
There was also speculation early on that the female orca which supposedly started this behaviour (Gladis White) was acting defensively after receiving a wound from a vessel strike, but there is little evidence to support such a connection, and this hypothesis is not widely supported amongst orca researchers.
The "fad/play behaviour" hypothesis for this behaviour ultimately still remains the most popular amongst orca scientists.
The mostly juvenile orcas that interact with sailing boats have an apparent preference for interacting with and breaking sailing boat rudders (often spade rudders). This may be because these particular types of rudders are easier to break, and there is often more of a reaction from the vessel and the people on it during the interaction. This type of reaction can be reinforcing for these types of behaviours in orcas, as they can see the direct results of their actions more clearly.
oletrav@reddit
I have a theory this is also related to cocaine smuggling across the strait of Gibraltar. Smugglers attach loads on the side of larger vessels and use small craft and subs. Wouldn’t be hard to believe some of there orcas have discovered some boats contain neat treats.
MartelMaccabees@reddit
Cracked out Orcas might be the most terrifying thing ever. New phobia unlocked.
For_serious13@reddit
Cocaine bear verses cocaine orca who wins??
BEETLEJUICEME@reddit
That’s easy.
On land: bear.
In the water: orca.
In space: entropy
For_serious13@reddit
What if it’s a polar bear tho
BEETLEJUICEME@reddit
In space: Still entropy
StylishDavid@reddit
Appreciate the detailed information; thanks!
National_Trash_6133@reddit
I’d be screwed because I would shit and that’s probably just gravy for them. So then they’d eat me.
F1McLarenFan007@reddit
I’m guessing we taste like crap lol
For_serious13@reddit
We aren’t fatty enough for them. Even in captivity kills it’s just them playing with the bodies, never eating them.
arandomperson1234@reddit
Orcas eat plenty of things that aren’t particularly fatty, such as sea otters, birds, halibut, and even giant squid (in the Bremer Bay population). This is not the reason.
standard-and-poor@reddit
The paralimbic lobes in orcas aren’t talked about enough
arandomperson1234@reddit
I think it is probably for memory. Orcas seem to remember a lot about social relationships, hunting strategies, locations, etc., but don’t have much of a hippocampus, so maybe the limbic system was expanded to take a bigger role in memory.
withloveamanda@reddit
Truly, this is what fascinates me the most about them!
UraeusCurse@reddit
They don’t eat junk food.
Grumpydog84@reddit
“Relax, chill…we’re just wondering what the heck you are….you might be the strangest looking sort of seal we’ve seen yet….”
godofwine16@reddit
We taste awful
MurderMuffin420@reddit
Very simple, we are way to much bone and too little muscle, thats the same reason why sharks dont see us as food.
Yes there have been stark attacks but those got confused, they haven't been predator attacks.
Big_477@reddit
IDK if she shit her pants... but I did watching this.
Dazeofthephoenix@reddit
Realistically, if they wanted to eat us they could, but likely just don't want to. Our bone to blubber ratio isn't worth the hassle
QuietCola-Roaster@reddit
We don’t taste like chicken.
Herps_Plants_1987@reddit
They saw the whaling days. They know not to fuck with us.
berusplants@reddit
No, you don’t know something many of us do.
WilderWyldWilde@reddit
Your Life as an Orca
Happy_Opportunity_32@reddit
My bet will be that they know we hunt in groups too and the biggest fish (ships and possibly submarines) in the ocean are our allies
Or it could be that they see us as a waste of energy to hunt for
naastiknibba95@reddit
Or they know we are incredibly lethal animals that almost wiped out their entire genus but stopped before finishing, both for unknown reasons. They think it is exceptionally stupid to try to be enemies with Gods.
Alarming-Comfort-918@reddit
they saw what we do to other animals unprovoked so they decided it would be unwise to fuck around
Pssay_Licker@reddit
This reminds me of new fantastic four movie, where johnny was trying to figure out if the board is part of silver surfer’s body.