Military layoffs?

Posted by Downtown_Physics8853@reddit | AskABrit | View on Reddit | 10 comments

I was watching the TV series "hostage" (note, this may be a spoiler), and was wondering about the veracity of one of the 'rebel soldiers' background story; she was a highly-trained commando in a unit that was dissolved due to budgetary requirements, and the story seems to suggest she was "made redundant" by this downsizing. Does such a thing actually happen in the UK military? Can a person be cashiered against their will without a court martial?

I'm an American, and I think we do things differently for "career military"; if a unit is dissolved, you get re-assigned. If the military wants to downsize, they offer enticements and slow recruitment. I don't believe our military resorts to corporate downsizing techniques like these.

There were a few other things in the script that ranged from improbable to ridiculous, but I just wasn't sure about THAT specific element.

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Open-Difference5534@reddit

I have friends and family in the UK Military.

In general 'downsizing' seems to be much the same as in a civilian organisation. They ask for volunteers and only force redundancies if they have to. The scenario in the "Hostage" was created to explain the plot, it would be unlikely as a 'highly trained commando' could walk into a private security job or one of the security details around politicians or the Royal Family (which are police units).

From memory units rarely get dissolved, rather they get merged.

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Downtown_Physics8853@reddit (OP)

Well, that part in the plot was used to CREATE DRAMA, but.....

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MattDubh@reddit

Options for change in the early 90s saw a lot of people hoiked out of their job in the military in the UK.

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BathFullOfDucks@reddit

Absolutely. Not even that difficult. If you spend too long without a promotion you get the boot. Army can't have 40 year old private soldiers.

Hilariously if your regiment or corps is undermanned, you can end up doing several tours, missing your promotion course and getting booted out.

You can wait years for the opportunity for a course, piss someone off and your spot on the course goes to someone else.

You can wait years for a spot on the course, piss someone off and get posted, arriving at your new unit at the back of a queue.

You can wait years for the opportunity for a course, do absolutely nothing wrong, get sent on a tour to keep someone completely incompetent from being sent somewhere they could do damage, and then come home to find the incompetent person was sent on the promotion course instead and now outranks you.

You can wait years for a course, be placed in an acting rank because there is a delay in the training pipeline, act competently in that rank, then trip some arcane metric somewhere, noticed by someone you've never met and lose out.

All of these examples I have seen happen.

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ValidGarry@reddit

Your military does that. I know people who were essentially made redundant when the USAF downsized a particular career field.

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smoulderstoat@reddit

There have been redundancies in the past, yes, when it has been decided that the size of the armed forces should be reduced. Here's a House of Commons Briefing on one of the most recent rounds, which came at a time when the Coalition Government was engaged on a period of austerity that involved cutting public expenditure quite deeply. Memberd of the Armed Forces take the job knowing that it is possible that they might be made redundant, in the same way that anyone might - there is no particular reason why they should not be subject to the same processes as other public servants. It's not considered right to carry on spending public money to pay people to do jobs that are no longer required.

There is a formal process for selecting people for redundancy, if insufficient people volunteer, at the end of which people made redundant are given a relatively generous financial settlement including a tax-free lump sum, and other practical support.

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qlkzy@reddit

I don't have first-hand experience, but I know that there have been a few occasions where the British armed forces have done redundancies (or somethings structurally very similar). I never got the details, but someone I knew a while back had gone through something similar with the RAF, around 15 years ago.

I think it has been fairly rare, and I doubt it would happen in the current climate.

But I think you may be confused with the general nature of employment and downsizing in the US and the UK. If you are made redundant in the UK, you always get some kind of compensation based on your current pay. If the army offered voluntary redundancy (which I think they did?) then they will have offered a larger payment as an incentive to take redundancy -- this might be the same thing you are referring to with "enticements" in the US Army?

Basically, "corporate layoffs" look different in the UK, with employees generally having more rights. So the British Army treating soldiers like UK employees isn't anywhere near as extreme as the US Army treating soldiers like US employees.

I do rather doubt that any of these schemes have applied to special forces though, at least in the 21st century. (I don't have any facts on that)

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violetwandering@reddit

The US does things like High Year Tenure to push people out. When its happening a person in their current rank who hasnt advanced in x time can be forced out of the service. There was also CRSP (career retention screening panel) for the USCG from 2010-2014 which was involuntary retirement for senior enlisted service members. This was ruled illegal earlier this year.

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InternationalRide5@reddit

They are not 'cashiered' which is dismissal after disciplinary action ; their jobs become redundant and the personnel will be eligible for redundancy pay, as well usually as civilian-recognised training and qualifications and assistance in finding new employment. Between 2010 and 2014, in particular, there were significant cuts to UK defence personnel numbers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/army-personnel-informed-of-redundancies

The Strategic Defence and Security Review announced a reduction of 17,000 posts in the Regular Armed Forces (5,000 each from the Navy and RAF, and 7,000 from the Army). (June 2013)

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05951/

Altogether 33,000 personnel, 19% of the Armed Services, are to leave the services which will be achieved through a combination of redundancy, natural wastage and reduced intake.

Four tranches of redundancies have been announced. Over 11,000 personnel have been selected for redundancy in three tranches, in 2011, 2012 and 2013. The fourth and final tranche, announced on 23 January 2014, will make up to 1,500 personnel redundant.